#1 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

Scenario:

The Chitauri have attacked Manhattan Island. The Avengers have met them in glorious battle. Into the midst of this chaos, two teams of superpowered beings appear. Both the Chitauri and the Avengers take them for enemies, and the battle swings to focus on the newcomers. The Council, seeing the new threat, launch a nuclear missile from the Helicarrier. The nuke will detonate 5 minutes after the start of the battle.

Rules

- Eliminate the enemy team.

- NOT Bloodlusted. Morals on, but characters will fight to the best of their abilities.

-Teams start on the buildings marked with letters, the team listed first in the topic title starts at point A, second listed at point B.

- No permanent BFR

- Both the Movie Avengers and Movie Chitauri will attack your teams. Their Morals are off. You are unable to reason with them. Avengers are those pictured plus Loki. Tony has Mark VII Armor. Hulk starts the battle Hulked out.

- Both Teams get 6 hours worth of Prep, but have no access to the battlefield. Teams get dossiers on their opponents after 4 hours, but are unaware of the conflict happening in Manhattan.

- The Prep allows you to make use of any of your resources, however I draw the line at inviting other people into the match. For Example. No Minions/Armies/LMDs however, if you had Madrox I'd allow duplicates naturally.

- No Time Manipulation or Reality Warping

-No acquiring artifacts that allow Time Manipulation or Reality Warping

Team :

Team

#2 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: Marvelous!

We finally met in the battlefield. I'm looking forward to this fight. I will do my best to deliver a high-level debate and try not to disappoint anyone.

#3 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM: I have to say, some of your team makes me a little bit nervous. :P Good luck, and I'll try my best to give as good as I get!

#4 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: I can say the same.. good luck for you too..

Let´s begin shall we?

#5 Edited by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

PREPARE FOR BATTLE!

6 hours worth of Prep

In the first 2 hours from the 6 granted for preparation, the team will focus on empowerment and self-defense. Loki will be responsible for the team power augmentation by using his best artefact: the Norn Stones. The God of Mischief will use them to increase each team member power level so they can be prepare to any kind of threat. The magnitude of Loki's magical power can also be measured by the villains he has personally created and the power he has bestowed upon both heroes and villains. He has granted them godly abilities (even to challenge the Void), amplified pre-existing abilities exponentially, provided them life and created villains entirely from scratch with his magic. Parallel to this, he will use clairvoyance to perceive events from afar, he does not require a personal connection to his target, or need to concentrate on a specific target, so by using this specific ability he will be aware of who is going to be his enemies long before the fight starts. He will also share his visions with the team members so they can all be well-informed. This attempt will serve to grant an advantage to the team so they can be 1 step ahead you. After this first move, the team will focus on the enemies and their particularities, such as weakness and what they are capable of. The team members will share the knowledge of each opponent so they can figure out what kind of surprise they may deliver in the battlefield, and prepare to counter it properly. The defense part consists in each individual ability of some members of the team such as Loki´s mystical shields, Maxima force-fields and Alex Nero constructs. He will be hidden so the other team can´t find him and stop his constructs to keep comming. Loki, Maxima and Eradicator will combine efforts to protect the team from any attempt of psychic assault. Spell will be used if needed at any time his team members need healing or reanimation. Loki will keep Alex Nero on track with Maxima´s help so he can´t go crazy or uncontrolled, but only berserker against his adversaries since his constructs are immensivily powerfull due to his nature. Alex Nero on the other hand will create armor constructs to help both Eradicator and Maxima fight his opponents with increased durability. Eradicator will use his intelligence and analytical abilities, to process, analyze and comput this battle situation very fast, so he can help the team to take the best moves and decisions. Knowing about the existence of two Daxamites in the other team he will create lead-based weapons to use against them since that´s their main weakness. Loki will try to hypnotize the other team all the time making them fight each other, that´s include the other characters present in the battle (Avengers, Chitauri). He will also use all kinds of spells (illusions, distortion, etc) against them, leaving them disoriented, confused and most important, vulnerable and open for attacks. Ghost Rider and Johnny Sorrow (who can go intangible) will play as Wildcards in the middle of this whole mess, so they can take the enemy by surprise and "one-shot" them with their respective attacks. Since the main objective is to eliminate the enemy team, my team will be more then prepared to use full power in the moment the fight starts. Finally, in the last moment before that moment, Loki will use elemental sorcery to develop weather magic and create a deep mist to help in the game plan and also to make things more interesting..

LOKI

Norn Stones

Clairvoyance

- On an even greater macro scale, Loki can scan an entire universe for significant events that reveal themselves, like when he was trapped in the Ultraverse and discovers that the Infinity Gems have arrived:

Force-Fields

- Loki's used force-fields to protect a wounded Thor from Grendel:

Telepathy

Ability to meld minds and He melds minds and penetrate his subconscious like he did with Odin here:

- He will use this ability to help Alex Nero use his constructs in his team favor. At the same time the next scan shows he's able to instruct Spider-Man on how to assist him in the middle of pitched battle:

#6 Posted by Lvenger (16075 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#7 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM:

Prep:

Okey doke, here we go. 6 hours of prep. For starters, Mon-El and Sodam Yat will head off to the Sun and immerse themselves. With their Daxamite physiologies, this will increase their powers exponentially. After sundipping for less than an hour, Superman was able to move Warworld, and in All-Star Superman, after sundipping for mere minutes, his power more than triples. (All-Star is non-canon, but it still gives some idea of the power increase that will happen here.) Cassandra Nova will create a TP link so that strategy and teamwork can be discussed at the speed of thought, which will be especially helpful once we get dossiers.

Steel will retrieve the Entropy Aegis and his time machine from his lab. He'll use the prep time to install any countermeasures from his previous suits that he hasn't yet put in the Aegis.

Martian Manhunter will use Steel's time machine to go to the Legion of Three Worlds future and retrieve a vial of Mon-El's anti-lead serum, 18 GL rings, and SBP's Solar Armor. When he returns, he'll give these to Sodam Yat and Mon-El. Both will take 9 more rings, Sodam will take the Serum, and Mon-El will don the Solar Armor. The armor will give Mon-El even more power and substantially more durability, and the serum will give Sodam Yat the same immunity to lead poisoning that Mon-El has.

Cassandra Nova is an incredibly subtle manipulator who doesn't hesitate to take victory by any means. She'll take advantage of the telepathic link to subtly tone down any inhibitions my team has about killing, ensuring that none of them will hold back in the fight to come.

As a side-note, Martian Manhunter has gotten over his fear of fire. However, Cassandra will still probe through his mind to eradicate any traces of it. (Scans are backwards)

That's all I can think of, so let the games begin!

#8 Edited by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: let´s get back on track shall we?

Offensive Tactics

MAGIC POWER.

COPIES:

I believe that biggest advantage that my team has is the use of magic by Loki´s hand. When using the Norn Stones he becomes a high level sorcerer, being able to perform multitasking, using different ways to attack and affect the enemy. Initially, he´s going to use his copies of himself in battle. These copies were not mere illusions but actual physical copies. He can create countless copies with no effort, which complicates the assault of the opposing team, having to get rid of the copies before they face the real threat. And it´s not only Loki who is capable of creating copies, since Maxima can create simulacrum and increase the effectiveness of this tactic. Alex Nero will finally complement it by adding his powerfull constructs and saturate the battlefield, infesting the area with his constructs..

- Loki copies:

- Maxima simulacrum:

  • Self Duplication

Whether inside her vast intergalactic empire, or abroad, Maxima's high profile status can be both a blessing and a curse. As such, the Empress of Almerac has shown a preference for using simulacra that are virtually identical to her. Each simulacrum possesses powers similar to her, and are able to act in situations when she cannot be present. However, these proxies appear to be less invulnerable, and according to Superman, more restrained than the original Maxima. At the end of Action Comics No. 645, it is revealed that the Maxima on Earth at the time was indeed a simulacrum. This duplicate was atomized by Sazu's optical force beams. In Extreme Justice No. 10, Maxima was a approached by Captain Atom to organize a wedding shower for his then fiancee, Plastique. At the party, Maxima heard Carol Ferris scream in an adjacent room, so she burst through the door. No sooner had she entered the room than she was ambushed by Star Sapphire. In the next issue, Extreme Justice No. 11, Maxima appeared cut in two pieces on the floor. Her torso and lower body were left smouldering where Star Sapphire had sliced her with a sword. During a break in the fight that ensued, Plastique was able to examine the dead body. The corpse was already starting to lose cohesion. Soon, the real Maxima appeared on the scene to the surprise of everyone at the bridal shower. What appeared to be a lifeless flesh and blood Almeracian on the floor was in fact a mere vessel for Maxima's psychic consciousness.

- Alex Nero constructs:

#9 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (3031 posts) - - Show Bio

this battle is gonna be sweet. i"m excited guys! two very good debaters....awesome.

#10 Posted by consolemaster001 (4497 posts) - - Show Bio

May the odds be ever in your favor.

#11 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, let´s keep going.

*STILL IN THE FIELD OF THE COPIES..

In combination of the tactic of countless copies, Loki will use his godly shape-shifting abilities to desguise several copies into Johnny Sorrow, so your team is unable to find the real one, and thus be susceptible to his powerful attack, which by the way, can one-shot any member of your team. This assault will be successful since Loki is a highly proficient shape-shifter, being able to escapes Heimdall's notice, fooled Lady Sif and even Odin himself with his disguises. Not to mention that keen mutant senses like Wolverine's are useless for detecting Loki's disguise. JS will be moving among those copies intangible so he can approach your team taking them by surprise so his attack can be even more efective. Once close enough, he´ll remove his mask at the right time and they´ll be dead the instance they look at his face. Important to note that if there´s anyone left behind or that may be separated arround the battlefield, Johnny Sorrow can teleport himself which makes everything more difficult to predict or avoid, and he can preambulate across the battlefield in search of new victims.

Loki

- shape-shifting (escaping Heimdall´s notice):

- Fooling Odin himself:

- He can shape-shift from insect form directly into a simulcrum of Thor:

Johnny Sorrow

- intangibility:

- fearful power:

#12 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM said:

I believe that biggest advantage that my team has is the use of magic by Loki´s hand.

I would agree, this is the biggest thing your team has over mine. I would argue that my biggest advantage is raw physical power. Mon-El and Sodam Yat are vastly above Superman Level thanks to the sundip, Martian Manhunter is Superman level even without all of his extra goodies, and Steel and Super Skrull are both 100+ tonners. Cassandra Nova isn't particularly physically focused, but even she's beaten down Gladiator with Psi-Armor.

He can create countless copies with no effort, which complicates the assault of the opposing team, having to get rid of the copies before they face the real threat. Maxima can create simulacrum and increase the effectiveness of this tactic.

This is indeed an impressive and powerful ability. However, my team has ways of counteracting this, and thanks to Cassandra's machinations, they're just bloodlusted enough to use them. Sodam and Mon-El both have devastatingly powerful heat vision, which will be amped beyond even its usual levels. Superman was able to disintegrate a whole army of Doomsday clones in one blast, so they shouldn't have trouble with Lokis and weaker Maximas.

Alex Nero will finally complement it by adding his powerfull constructs and saturate the battlefield, infesting the area with his constructs.

Interestingly enough, I have, as part of my team, Sodam Yat. Sodam and Alex have met before, and with interesting results. Although Nero initially seemed to have the advantage over Kyle Rayner and Sodam Yat, Yat discovered that he could use the ION power to take over Alex's constructs and use them as his own. Against a more experiences, Solar-powered Yat who already knows this trick, Alex should be totally useless. (Also worth noting is that in the last scan, Kyle strongly implies that he was holding back to force Yat to use his ION powers.)

This will allow him not only to render Nero ineffective, but to have a ready-made attack as soon as the battle begins. In your prep, Nero created construct-armor for each of your team members, so Yat will be able to take control of this and forcibly restrain each of your characters, leaving them even more vulnerable to attacks.

In combination of the tactic of countless copies, Loki will use his godly shape-shifting abilities to desguise several copies into Johnny Sorrow, so your team is unable to find the real one, and thus be susceptible to his powerful attack. This assault will be successful since Loki is a highly proficient shape-shifter, being able to escapes Heimdall's notice, fooled Lady Sif and even Odin himself with his disguises. Not to mention that keen mutant senses like Wolverine's are useless for detecting Loki's disguise.oving among those copies intangible so he can approach your team taking them by surprise so his attack can be even more efective. Once close enough, he´ll remove his mask at the right time and they´ll be dead the instance they look at his face. Important to note that if there´s anyone left behind or that may be separated arround the battlefield, Johnny Sorrow can teleport himself which makes everything more difficult to predict or avoid, and he can preambulate across the battlefield in search of new victims.

A counter that I see as effective here is J'onn and Cassandra's psychic link for my team. With both of my telepaths scanning the battlefield, it should be simple for them to detect the real Sorrow and keep his location known to my team. With his ambush thwarted, Johnny will be much less of a threat.

My Strategy:

At the start of the battle, my telepaths will give my team an immediate knowledge of the battlefield and everyone's positions on it. Sodam Yat will immediately take over Alex Nero's armor constructs, restraining your team at least temporarily.

Super Skrull will open the battle by enveloping Maxima in a forcefield. He has the combined, and improved, powers of the Fantastic Four, so his forcefields not only have the power to contain Hulk or ships accelerating to escape velocity, they can also block telepathy.

Sue Storm has used them to block Jean Grey's and Psi-Lord's psionic attacks, both of whom are telepaths with raw power to compete with Maxima's. Super Skrull's are even stronger, so the warrior princess shouldn't break through quickly.

With Maxima's psionic powers out of the picture, Cassandra and Martian Manhunter will mentally attack Johnny Sorrow and Loki, respectively. I don't know of Johnny ever displaying telepathic resistance, so Cassandra should be able to turn him on his own team, using his powers against Maxima, Alex, and Loki before attempting them against Ghost Rider. Cassandra has possessed Charles Xavier, so Sorrow shouldn't be an issue. J'onn will be in for more resistance against Loki, but he's entered the Spectre's mind three times, and broken through Mageddon's psionic shields multiple times as well. He should be able to blast through Loki's mental defenses.

#13 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, first and foremost, you did agree that my team have the magical advantage since I have a high order sorcerer with the help of a powerfull artefact such as the Norn Stones. Although you have admitted it, you did not present a consistent defense about it, but just merely to say that your team has more physical power. I will not only counter your second statement but also emphasize the reason my team will win this due to the magic of Loki.

- Loki has used his headpiece to create a mystic cage Dr. Strange requiring the use his Amulet of Agamotto to escape it:

I can´t see how any of your team members can scape from this since none of them are magic based characters..

1. "I would agree, this is the biggest thing your team has over mine. I would argue that my biggest advantage is raw physical power. Mon-El and Sodam Yat are vastly above Superman Level thanks to the sundip, Martian Manhunter is Superman level even without all of his extra goodies, and Steel and Super Skrull are both 100+ tonners. Cassandra Nova isn't particularly physically focused, but even she's beaten down Gladiator with Psi-Armor."

Eradicator and Maxima are in normal conditions at Superman levels. Here they are amped by Loki as well as the rest of the team. Alex Nero is beyond that level since he was able to fight the JLA and 3 of the most powefull Green Lanterns (two at the same time). In this battle he´s not only stronger but concentrate, free from external interference due to Maxima´s intervention. Ghost Rider deals with super powerfull being all the time, and Johnny Sorrow already beat the entire JSA with one hit, and I believe I don´t need to argue for Loki since he was the reason for the creation of the Avengers.

- The next scans shows how powerfull a being amped by Loki can be. Durok's power would prove capable of bringing Thor to the brink of death and rending Surfer's board apart with bare hands:

- Alex Nero vs Kyle Rayner and Alan Scott:

2. "This is indeed an impressive and powerful ability. However, my team has ways of counteracting this, and thanks to Cassandra's machinations, they're just bloodlusted enough to use them. Sodam and Mon-El both have devastatingly powerful heat vision, which will be amped beyond even its usual levels. Superman was able to disintegrate a whole army of Doomsday clones in one blast, so they shouldn't have trouble with Lokis and weaker Maximas."

This assault won´t properly work because eventually they´ll end up fighting all those copies, It´s not regular copies like I said before, in normal conditions those copies are enough to struggle with Thor, here they are increased at higher levels, which means that your team doesn´t have a way to finish them all with one single strike. Observing the superman heatvision scan you presented I could not help noticing that he doesn´t eliminate that much of army of copies, we are talking about countless copies in this fight, Maxima´s and Loki´s plus Alex Nero constructs which by itself are capable of playing his own army. They will eventually be reached by the copies and that´s the moment when the strategy works. Not to mention that he will use ilusions among those copies which will interfere in an attempt to locate the real Johnny Sorrow, who will by the way be intangible and teleporting across the battlefield. Like shown before, in one of Loki's most epic battles, he used these copies to stall Surtur, the Fire Demon, by himself. Another reason why it will work it´s because of Loki subterfuge to served well by his magical ability to render himself completely invisible and undetectable through the use of Norn spells.

- vs Surtur:

- Loki has supreme control over his invisibility such that he can pick and choose who can see and who cannot see him:

- In one instance, Balder, Thor and Sif cannot detect his invisible form while walking right past him:

- Alex Nero constructs:

3. "Interestingly enough, I have, as part of my team, Sodam Yat. Sodam and Alex have met before, and with interesting results. Although Nero initially seemed to have the advantage over Kyle Rayner and Sodam Yat, Yat discovered that he could use the ION power to take over Alex's constructs and use them as his own. Against a more experiences, Solar-powered Yat who already knows this trick, Alex should be totally useless. (Also worth noting is that in the last scan, Kyle strongly implies that he was holding back to force Yat to use his ION powers.). This will allow him not only to render Nero ineffective, but to have a ready-made attack as soon as the battle begins. In your prep, Nero created construct-armor for each of your team members, so Yat will be able to take control of this and forcibly restrain each of your characters, leaving them even more vulnerable to attacks."

That would be easy to believe if like you said, they haven´t met before, now add this information to the time that was given to Loki´s for preparation and also Eradicator Multiversal Awareness. This ability was given to him as an upgrade by Mr. Mejestic in their last fight. So now he is more aware of his surroundings, being able to sense beings and gateways from alternate realities such as the Bleed. So given his nature being a program from Krypton, he possesses extensive knowledge of Krypton, being extremely intelligent, as well as the ability to compute and process information at incredible speed. So that´s enough to make me believe that the team is able to counter Sodam Yat from prior knowledge of his capabilities. He can use his powers (molecular/genetic control) to manipulate the energy of Alex Nero´s armor constructs, preventing it to be used against him.

4. "A counter that I see as effective here is J'onn and Cassandra's psychic link for my team. With both of my telepaths scanning the battlefield, it should be simple for them to detect the real Sorrow and keep his location known to my team. With his ambush thwarted, Johnny will be much less of a threat."

I highly doubt she can do such thing. First, it´s not only Maxima on my team who possess psychic powers, but also Eradicator and Loki, special enhanced versions of them. Maxima at normal levels is near to Martian Manhunter regarding psychic power. Eradicator is levels above Maxima, and Loki possess vast psionic abilities (telekinesis, telepathy, hypnosis, mental projections and astral form). So they are not only capable of protecting the whole team but also capable to attack your team or at least keep both Cassandra and Jonn busy so the game plan can work perfectly.

- Eradicator overcomes Maxima's mental powers effortlessly:

- Loki using psionic powers can hurl psychic bolts that can stagger even Dr. Strange (amulet):

The Sorcerer Supreme exclaims that it is "the most powerful, the most awesome [he had] ever encountered..

#14 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

My Strategy:

1. At the start of the battle, my telepaths will give my team an immediate knowledge of the battlefield and everyone's positions on it. Sodam Yat will immediately take over Alex Nero's armor constructs, restraining your team at least temporarily.

That could work if I haven´t any telepath on my team so that will be the least of your problems, since I have 3 telepaths on my team that can counter yours. Maxima have just the same feat of battlefield scanning so we´re pretty even in that part. Like mentioned before, Eradicator is a great energy manipulator as well as molecular/genetic control who was able to build the Fortress of Solitude from nothing and later drains the energy out of it to heal himself.

Maxima scanning Metropolis to find Superman:

- Here she finds Doomsday:

Erad´s molecular control

Manipulation of LIVING FLESH, while keeping it ALIVE. Later this was reversed with no ill effects:

- More into Eradicators molecular/genetic control. Here it is changing Jimmy Olsen into a plastic man/Mr. Fantastic being:

2. Super Skrull will open the battle by enveloping Maxima in a forcefield. He has the combined, and improved, powers of the Fantastic Four, so his forcefields not only have the power to contain Hulk or ships accelerating to escape velocity, they can also block telepathy. Sue Storm has used them to block Jean Grey's and Psi-Lord's psionic attacks, both of whom are telepaths with raw power to compete with Maxima's. Super Skrull's are even stronger, so the warrior princess shouldn't break through quickly.

That won´t happen either, Maxima can protect herself with her own forcefield, and also use it as an offensive strike, fly at incredible speeds, and IMHO she far exceeds SS in fight combat as well, not to mention that he will be busy with all ther copies even before try to engage her in a fight. Not to mention that she have many ways to attack him as well since she possess hypnotic gaze, illusion casting, self duplication and astral combat.

  • Forcefield Projection
Maxima's force field

Maxima can generate defensive force-field bubbles to shield herself, and or others. This skill allows her to travel unaffected by the intense pressures of the ocean's depths, or the vaccuum of outer space. She can also use this skill for offense by trapping an opponent and constricting the space inside the shield, crushing them, or letting the air run out.

In Aquaman No. 41, Power Girl attempted an underwater ambush on Maxima's shield as the King of Atlantis was being psionically assaulted inside. Maxima's shield didn't drop, but Kara's surprise attack winded the Almeracian warrior briefly. Although Aquaman took the opportunity to mention that Maxima's force bubble wouldn't be able to hold up to the pounding of Power Girl's punches, Maxima's shield was more solid for Kara's second punch.

In Superman No. 159, Green Lantern: Kyle Rayner and Superman were investigating the disappearance of Pluto when Maxima showed up with what appeared to be an army of Almeracians. Contrary to what Superman thought was an invasion of his solar system, Maxima was in fact leading a mass exodus away from her devastated home world. By creating a psionic highway, the Empress of Almerac provided intergalactic transport for the remnants of her people to rendezvous with Grayven.

  • Super Speed

3. With Maxima's psionic powers out of the picture, Cassandra and Martian Manhunter will mentally attack Johnny Sorrow and Loki, respectively. I don't know of Johnny ever displaying telepathic resistance, so Cassandra should be able to turn him on his own team, using his powers against Maxima, Alex, and Loki before attempting them against Ghost Rider. Cassandra has possessed Charles Xavier, so Sorrow shouldn't be an issue. J'onn will be in for more resistance against Loki, but he's entered the Spectre's mind three times, and broken through Mageddon's psionic shields multiple times as well. He should be able to blast through Loki's mental defenses.

Once again, Maxima, Loki and Eradicator have psionic powers, have used before for several purposes such as protection and attack. None of my team members are vulnerable to any psychic assault coming from your team. I can focus two of them to combat both Cassandra and J'onn while one of them is free to act, which gives me another advantage over your team, that togheter with Loki´s magical powers is a matter of time for your team fall. I have not even started with Ghost Rider strategy since none of your team members have effective ways to take him down for good, on the other hand his hellfire and penance stare can properly work in almost your entire team..

*I will edit this last part later..

#15 Edited by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM

Sorry this took me so long. Anyway, here it is!

Loki has used his headpiece to create a mystic cage Dr. Strange requiring the use his Amulet of Agamotto to escape it: I can´t see how any of your team members can scape from this since none of them are magic based characters..

Several issues. The first is speed. Three of my characters have near-light speed, two others are extremely enhanced and the last, Cassandra, has intangibility. All but Nova are astronomically faster than Doctor Strange. Loki should have a hard time catching them in it in the first place. And second, what's to say that someone with planet-moving strength can't smash the cage? It may be strong against magic, but does it have durability strong enough to withstand anyone with more than normal human strength?

Eradicator and Maxima are in normal conditions at Superman levels. Here they are amped by Loki as well as the rest of the team.

Mon-El and Sodam Yat are at Superman levels even before having their stats amped by GL rings. They're also sundipped here and Mon-El has Solar Armor. Sodam Yat, when he had literally zero experience with his ION and Daxamite powers, was able to have a long brawl with Superboy Prime. He was even impaled with a lead bar because he didn't know it was his weakness, giving him fatal levels of lead poisoning, and he was able to continue to fight SBP for "what seems like hours." In raw power, Yat was far above anyone on your team even then, and since then he's gotten far more experienced with both his ION and Daxamite powers. And that was also before he sundipped for 6 hours.

Alex Nero is beyond that level since he was able to fight the JLA and 3 of the most powefull Green Lanterns (two at the same time). In this battle he´s not only stronger but concentrate, free from external interference due to Maxima´s intervention.

Not only do you have no counter to Yat simply co-opting Nero's constructs, the GL rings have access to the Lantern's database, which will allow them to research how Nero has been defeated in the past. The lanterns can create construct replicas of Alex's parents, which will compromise his mental stability just as they have in the past. He's also been overloaded by ION power, which I have available here. I have access to the sources of each of Alex's previous defeats, so I should have no trouble taking him down.

Ghost Rider deals with super powerfull being all the time, and Johnny Sorrow already beat the entire JSA with one hit, and I believe I don´t need to argue for Loki since he was the reason for the creation of the Avengers.

Ghost Rider, in his Blaze incarnation, can be KO'd. Hulk has done it, for example, so both of my Daxamites should be able to do so. He's also shown to be vulnerable to telepathy.

In X-Men 9, Psylocke was able to use her psychic knife to take GR to the astral plane and beat him there. Since Manhunter has been able to take the Spectre himself to the astral plane, he should have no trouble doing so to Ghost Rider.

Sorrow and Loki are indeed powerful threats, but they can't match up to my team in physical power, my original statement.

This assault won´t properly work because eventually they´ll end up fighting all those copies, It´s not regular copies like I said before, in normal conditions those copies are enough to struggle with Thor, here they are increased at higher levels, which means that your team doesn´t have a way to finish them all with one single strike. Observing the superman heatvision scan you presented I could not help noticing that he doesn´t eliminate that much of army of copies, we are talking about countless copies in this fight, Maxima´s and Loki´s

Doomsday has obscene levels of durability, and Superman was able to disintegrate several in an instant. I have two morals-off Daxamites who significantly exceed Superman in power, so they'll be far more destructive. A few feats of heat vision, even before sundipping:

Superman's heat vision is hotter than Earth science can measure, even though they can measure the Sun's temperature. And it can be widened enough to cover your whole dupe army with ease. Throw in Super Skrull using Anti-Matter blasts powerful enough to destroy mountains and Steel firing blasts from his Entropy Aegis, and your army shouldn't last nearly as long as you think.

That would be easy to believe if like you said, they haven´t met before, now add this information to the time that was given to Loki´s for preparation and also Eradicator Multiversal Awareness. This ability was given to him as an upgrade by Mr. Mejestic in their last fight. So given his nature being a program from Krypton, he possesses extensive knowledge of Krypton, being extremely intelligent, as well as the ability to compute and process information at incredible speed. So that´s enough to make me believe that the team is able to counter Sodam Yat from prior knowledge of his capabilities. He can use his powers (molecular/genetic control) to manipulate the energy of Alex Nero´s armor constructs, preventing it to be used against him.

I don't see why Cosmic Awareness would let Eradicator counteract Ion powers, seeing as nobody has ever done anything like it. Even with six hours of prep, I simply see no reason to believe that Sodam Yat is so easily countered. How does knowing about Krypton help Eradicator to counter a Will Entity? I see no reasons here to convince me that Sodam can't take over any construct Nero tries to create.

I highly doubt she can do such thing. First, it´s not only Maxima on my team who possess psychic powers, but also Eradicator and Loki, special enhanced versions of them. Maxima at normal levels is near to Martian Manhunter regarding psychic power.

Near to Martian Manhunter? How do you figure? The Martian has telepathic feats far beyond anything Maxima has showed. As I've already posted, he's entered the Spectre's mind no less than three times. Maxima has never done anything on that level. And when J'onn attacked Maxima psionically, she and several other heroes were one-shotted by his TP attack. Sure it only knocks them down, but he doesn't want to kill them. In a morals off state when Maxima is his enemy, he won't stop once he's blown through her shields.

Eradicator is levels above Maxima,

Eradicator has few feats of telepathy, and his best is resisting an illusion from Maxima. J'onn, as I've shown, dominates Maxima in TP. J'onn has engaged in teleathic combat with numerous opponents, and he's even resisted the telepathic onslaught of nine amped White Martians at the same time, so he's experienced against multiple opponents. And White Martians have TP feats to put them on a similar level to your psionics, as well, such as mind-controlling half a million people. MM's TP is far above Eradicator's.

Cassandra also has powerful TP, as she was able to possess Charles Xavier for months and go undetected by the rest of the X-Men's telepaths. She's repeatedly beaten Professor X in telepathic combat, mentally defeated the entire Shi'ar Royal Guard. She's mindraped Jean Grey, cast an illusion over Cyclops, and effortlessly resisted Xavier's mental attacks while dominating him with TK. All at the same time.

This is also a good showing of her versatility, showcasing intangibility, Psi-Armor, TK, and molecule manipulation of Wolverine's arm. She has the psychic power, skill, and experience to take any of your psionics one-on-one, and the versatility to keep her in the game against everyone else.

and Loki possess vast psionic abilities (telekinesis, telepathy, hypnosis, mental projections and astral form). Loki using psionic powers can hurl psychic bolts that can stagger even Dr. Strange (amulet): The Sorcerer Supreme exclaims that it is "the most powerful, the most awesome [he had] ever encountered..

Psi-Bolts are hard to use against an opponent with near-light combat speed. Martian Manhunter has gone toe-to-toe with a bloodlusted Flash, so he's going to be difficult to tag at all. And his feats of psychic shielding are ridiculous, such as resisting 9 white Martians as I mentioned earlier.

Cassandra has effortlessly resisted Xavier, as shown in my scans of her above, and both Mon-El and Sodam Yat have strong TP resistance thanks to their rings. Super Skrull's forcefields block TP, so he'll be fine as well.

So they are not only capable of protecting the whole team but also capable to attack your team or at least keep both Cassandra and Jonn busy so the game plan can work perfectly.

None of your team has feats to compete with Martian Manhunter. Cassandra has dominated skilled telepaths at least as powerful as yours. Super Skrull can isolate your team or mine from telepathy with his forcefields. I hardly see your team either protecting or attacking, and I honestly think it's a bit of a stretch to say they can even keep my telepaths busy. Seeing how fast J'onn can take down Maxima, with SS's forcefields isolating Loki even temporarily, then it's Eradicator vs J'onn and Cassandra, and he gets dominated. Then it's Loki vs my two and he gets dominated. Even if SS can't trap Loki, then Cassandra can easily keep him occupied while J'onn mindrapes Eradicator and then the two of them destroy Loki's mind. As good as your telepaths are, Manhunter simply outclasses them.

That could work if I haven´t any telepath on my team so that will be the least of your problems, since I have 3 telepaths on my team that can counter yours. Maxima have just the same feat of battlefield scanning so we´re pretty even in that part.

Maxima scanned Metropolis. J'onn has scanned every mind on Earth multiple times, and he's even scanned the entire galaxy. Hardly 'even in that part.'

"Not a single being in the galaxy." That means he scanned all the telepaths, everyone with TP resistance, and billions of minds total. Far above Maxima's feats.

Maxima's force field: Maxima can generate defensive force-field bubbles to shield herself, and or others.

Super Skrull can create forcefields inside closed systems, so he can squish her brain, forcefield or no.

Cassandra and J'onn can go intangible, so they can phase right through the field. GLs have shown phasing on occasion as well, but that probably won't be necessary. And J'onn can still psionically destroy her.

Once again, Maxima, Loki and Eradicator have psionic powers, have used before for several purposes such as protection and attack. None of my team members are vulnerable to any psychic assault coming from your team.

And once again, they're outclassed in the psionic game. J'onn easily one-shots Maxima in continuity, which then puts it two vs two. Cassandra has repeatedly owned Xavier, even when he had Cerebra, which is a TP feat neither Loki nor Erad can compete with. J'onn is in a league of his own, and it could be argued he could take both of them at once. None of your psychic defenses are powerful enough to hold up against my team.

I can focus two of them to combat both Cassandra and J'onn while one of them is free to act, which gives me another advantage over your team, that togheter with Loki´s magical powers is a matter of time for your team fall.

Your psionics are outclassed. You won't have any free to act because Maxima will be instantly KO'd by J'onn, quickly followed by both of your remaining psionics. Loki's magical powers won't have time to act, since Cassandra will be attacking him with her superior telepathy as soon as the battle begins.

I have not even started with Ghost Rider strategy since none of your team members have effective ways to take him down for good, on the other hand his hellfire and penance stare can properly work in almost your entire team..

Excuse me? You seem to have forgotten that a) Blaze has been KO'd by physical force multiple times, which MM, Yat, Mon-El, Super Skrull, and probably Steel can all replicate, and b) That he's hardly immune to telepathy. Also, c), temporary BFR is legal here, so several of my team can BFR him using their superior speed and strength, or the GLs can teleport him, like John Stewart did to the entire JLA.

As far as Penance Stare is concerned, he needs to make eye contact for it to work. It's a simple matter for Sodam to make reflective sunglasses constructs for each of my team during prep. This should render the Stare ineffective.

#16 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

We still doing this?

#17 Posted by beatboks1 (6429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

We still doing this?

When I saw this on page one I was coming to ask the same thing

#18 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: let´s finish this thing once of all :)

#19 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: It looks like Cadence vs Lvenger and Backflip vs Floopay stalled halfway, and YJ kind of forfeited to you? What say I bump all three threads, and we try to get this thing finished up?

#20 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: I agree.

#21 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM: Let's see if we can't get this finished up in the next week or so. I want to get the next round cooked up while people are still interested.

#22 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: I agree, I will do my best to reply tonight..

#23 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

To be honest, I think we should go for the votes..

#24 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM: If you're sure, I'll call them in.

#25 Posted by HigorM (3243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: okay.

#26 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001 @Backflip

#27 Posted by consolemaster001 (4497 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM: @Esquire: I am going to read all this and then vote some time tomorrow

#28 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (3031 posts) - - Show Bio

wow. very, very well done gentleman. excellent debate with fantastic arguments for both sides. I had quite the time deciding, and went back and forth. in the end, I feel that Esquire takes it by a small margin. so,

#29 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001 @Backflip

#30 Posted by consolemaster001 (4497 posts) - - Show Bio

Like our previous battle it's again very very close but after reading the entire thing 9999 times my vote has to go to you did it again

you did an awesome job but there can only be one