New Year: NewBluebeetle vs 8BitGangsta (voting)

@thenewbluebeetle007

• Piper McLean with Katoptris
• Nico diAngelo
• Frank Zhang with Blessing of Mars
• Hazel Levesque with Arion

@8bitgangsta

Gallery

• Ahsoka Tano
• Kreia
• Revan
• Bastila Shan

Top Team Red, Bottom Team Blue.

@thenewbluebeetle007 I will get this rolling.

My team has great teamwork off the back. All are jedi, and Kreia has taught Revan, and Revan has had fought Satele. The only one out of the Look is Ahsoka, but as a Jedi she is more than ready to work with the team.

From where I am sitting, my team will use the super human bullet speeds to get in your teams face, and chop them to bits with their lightsabers and insane skills. Kreia being the only one to more than likely open up with a mental attack.

Not sure what defense your team has against a master of telepathy to begin with.

@8bitgangsta:

Let's get it started! Here's to a great debate!

Wow, no intro? I guess I will provide a basic rundown of my characters for your knowledge and that of the voters.

To the voters, I apologize for not providing a visual show this time, but it's hard to do that when all of your characters are from literature.

Intro

Piper McLean

• Charmspeak - basically a magical variant of TP. All she has to do is say STOP, and you're going to stop. Unless, of course, you're a sorceress yourself, or aware of her charmspeak and have enough willpower to resist it. This also makes her highly resistant to TP
• Katoptris - allows her to see into the future
• Sword of the Boreads - gives her limited cryokinesis

Nico diAngelo

• Necromancy - can summon the dead, command them
• Geokinesis
• Ability to turn people into ghosts
• Empathy
• Invisibility

Frank Zhang

• Shape-Shifting: Can turn into any animal, including dragons
• Blessing of Mars: Grants him nigh-invulnerability to physical damage, including that of your light sabers. Also makes him a killing machine, doing moves that he couldn't normally do and fighting with skill that he doesn't normally have.
• Expert Tactician and Commander
• Expert Archer

Hazel Levesque

• Control over Metal - if you have any metal on you, you've already lost
• Sorcery: Makes physical illusions
• Arion: Her horse that enables her to go faster than sound. It's never stated exactly how fast Arion is so far this debate I will use him as Mach 5.

Comments on the Team

• The group has perfect teamwork, all having worked together for 3 books now
• Being demigods, all of them have bullet reaction times
• All are proficient swordsmen

Prep

1. Nico will summon 6 skeletons to protect Piper
2. Hazel will summon as much metal as she can muster
3. Nico will go invisible
4. Piper is going to prepare to shout, "STOP!"

Counters

Why I Win

My strategy is simple.

1. Hazel with Arion is going to speedblitz. She's going to first use any metal that you may have on you to TK slam you into the ground/choke you/stop you from moving and for those that don't have metal on them (I don't know if the hilts of lightsabers are metal) she's going to just plain stab them.
2. Frank is going to assault you similarly, except with less speed.
3. Piper is going to yell STOP. You will stop. Then Hazel will gut all of your characters.
4. Nico has a whole bunch of stuff he could be doing, but I won't get into that unless I need to.

I know you're going to say that your team has TP so you're going to be immune to Piper. However, Piper has spoken gods, half-gods, and the very earth itself. In addition, her persuasions aren't telepathy, they're magic. And I don't think the Jedi are resistant to magic.

I await your rebuttal.

@thenewbluebeetle007: I really hate to interrupt, but are you sure Frank is immune to physical damage? He was pierced by an arrow in the House of Hades, he just didn't feel it IIRC. And since when could Nico go invisible? Again, I don't mean to intrude, but those just sound like really big things..

@thenewbluebeetle007:

My strategy is simple.

Hazel with Arion is going to speedblitz. She's going to first use any metal that you may have on you to TK slam you into the ground/choke you/stop you from moving and for those that don't have metal on them (I don't know if the hilts of lightsabers are metal) she's going to just plain stab them.

Not speed blitzing 4 characters with Precog, and react to Blasters and Electric attacks. Other way around. As for grabbing the Lightsaber hilts, my own characters have powerful TK to manipulate their sabers back, I would also argue my characters TK out weighs your characters ability. Not to mention your characters are being dropped by TP as soon the match starts.

Frank is going to assault you similarly, except with less speed.

Same as above.

Piper is going to yell STOP. You will stop. Then Hazel will gut all of your characters.

Pretty sure the Speed of Kreia with TP will drop your characters faster than your character can utter a word.

She is fast enough to deflect rapid blaster fire from a Jedi with one hand.

Fast enough to avoid the attacks of another Jedi. This one a high level Echani Warrior.

Not seeing Piper being a factor at all.

Nico has a whole bunch of stuff he could be doing, but I won't get into that unless I need to.

Your going to need it. So far my character are dropping you with a thought.

Or killing you all in a blitz.

I know you're going to say that your team has TP so you're going to be immune to Piper. However, Piper has spoken gods, half-gods, and the very earth itself. In addition, her persuasions aren't telepathy, they're magic. And I don't think the Jedi are resistant to magic.

My characters will drop yours.

@Joewell: He had been hit with the arrow beforehand. I'll get the quotes later.

As for Nico, he has utilized invisibility a couple of times. Remember the fight against clytius where he used a cover of darkness to protect himself? Or when hazel staTed she couldn't see him aboard the Argo 2? In battle of the labyrinth, where he "hides in the shadows"?

But you're correct, I should have explained that better.

I'll have my response up in a bit.

Rebuttals and Stuff

How the Battle Plays Out

1. Hazel blitzes you with Arion and takes all of the weapons out of your hands.

2. Even if Kreia did TP in battle, she has never shown her TP to be fast, especially not against characters that resist it.

3. Piper yells, "STOP". Everyone stops. Then she kills your team or tells them to jump out the window. Your characters aren't human, and in her universe, anything that isn't human is a monster. She has no qualms about killing monsters.

4. Even if for some reason you get your weapons back and resist Piper's charmspeak (you won't), you have no way to put down Frank or tag Hazel.

5. Your only hope is TP, and Kreia doesn't do it in character in mid-battle, she isn't quick enough with it, and my characters are highly resistant.

@joewell: I just checked. Frank had the arrow in his arm before he got the Blessing.

Summary

Overall, this fight ends pretty quickly. Hazel takes the weapons out of your hands, then Piper tells you to go stop and jump out of the window because looking at you, she'll think they're monsters.

To win this fight, you'd have to:

1. Be able to engage and put down 6 skeleton warriors faster than a second - if you can do this your characters break the rules and should be disqualified.

2. Have no metal on you

3. Be able to breach my characters' mental defenses

4. Be deaf to Piper

5. Be fast enough to tag Hazel

None of that is happening.

And I haven't even talked about my most powerful character yet.

@thenewbluebeetle007: Question, how invulnerable is nigh invulnerable? Are we talking like Superman level here? If so that way above the limits.

Not trying to interfere I'm just one of those weirdos who starts strategizing against the other teams before the first round is over. :)

@thenewbluebeetle007:

I'd like to know, have your characters reacted to supersonic speeds? Because that's what they'll need. And anyway, they won't be able to do anything to defend themselves because their light sabers will be out of their hands. Your characters' TK outweighs mine? Hazel Levesque used thousands of bracelets to create a rope to prevent a few Amazons from falling into a chasm. And besides, you'll be gutted before you get your weapons back.

My characters all have super human speeds and reaction time thanks to the force.

Force of Speed and Force Leap are common Jedi abilities, which my entire team has here.

I already showed Kreia speed, so lets show off the others.

Revan's speed.

Revan thinks and reacts to the speeds and attacks of the Emperor himself. Even reacting to several bolts of sith lightning with his reaction.

Reacts to Force Lightning again here.

Ahsoka Tano.

Bastila Shan

This chick is among the top Jedi of The Old Republic. She moves and reacts so fast that even Dark Jedi with the enhance abilities, and precognition are slain before processing her. Only the best of the best force users match her speed.

The fact is all my characters have a degree of super speed, and have insane reaction time thanks to the fact Jedi possess precognition on a level.

And anyway, they won't be able to do anything to defend themselves because their light sabers will be out of their hands. Your characters' TK outweighs mine? Hazel Levesque used thousands of bracelets to create a rope to prevent a few Amazons from falling into a chasm. And besides, you'll be gutted before you get your weapons back.

Thats it? Thats all you have for strength of Metal control? Not much there.

Kreia TK

Here Kreia over powers and ragdolls 4 Jedi masters with her TK. Each of these Masters have TK to send several humnoids flying in turn, but Kreia over powers them all.

Hell her specialty form of fighting is using her TK to weild three lightsabers against fore enhance strength Jedi.

Revan

Revan is so powerful, he breaks through the force defenses of several Jedi, including Satela Shan, with a single TK attack, and you can see the whirlwind of power around him.

Satele

Her TK is insane high. Nuff said.

Ahsoka

1. That's not TP speed, that's reaction time. Just because she has good reflexes doesn't mean her TP is fast. It's like saying just because I can run fast I can solve math problems fast. It just doesn't work that way.

This is a flaw counter argument. If she has the reaction speed, then she thinks on that level of speed. Your argument is is like saying "I can react to bullets after they are fired from the gun, the bullet being in flight, but I cannot perceive, think, and make a decision faster than a bullet? She has mentally dropped a Jedi ready to attack, and dropped several trained Sith Force Sensitives before they could attack.

Further more she has shown to use the force at speeds of rapid Blaster bolts with one hand. Tutaminis is a force power that requires her to think of using.

She is mentally shutting you down. Prove her ability is like solving a hour long math problem. BTW, there is many people in the world who are human calculators. They can think and possess math problems in a instant, but cannot run at all. Whats your argument to that? Besides I covered this above with Force speed.

Also, when has Kreia ever used TP mid battle?

She never used TP mid battle, she used it at the start of Battles, or any meeting. She specializes in telepathy side of the force and always used it as her first means of control or attack.

I showed her instantly TPing a Jedi who had a very powerful natural mental resistance before being a Jedi, Bao-Dur. Dropped him the moment he threaten her.

2. Anyway even if you do get the TP going, as fast as you say you can, who will it affect? Nico, who's highly resistant, perhaps even immune, having resisted Gaea, Tartarus and to some extent Cupid, all gods that are more powerful than your characters? Frank, who's in a fit of battle and barely knows what he's doing thanks to the Blessing of Mars? Piper who has a magical variant of TP herself? Hazel, the powerful sorceress?

Can you prove they are more powerful in TP? What have they done? Just because they are gods means nothing. Kreia on the other hand has used TP to such effect to mentally sway or dominate the strongest Jedi who in turn train for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGiM-85AHyo

Atris was never able to sense Kreia in their first meeting at the Telos Academy. Continues to use it on Atris at the beginning of their second meeting back on Telos. Three Jedi Masters could not sense her at all, and admit as much when Kreia reveals herself. She also ends up hidden from the Jedi Disciple on the ship for a lengthy time.

She exclaims how she kept Attris and the Jedi council even remembering she existed, even when she was around them. She might as well never existed to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGiM-85AHyo

Tons of examples of her using Telepathy to project her thoughts into others heads, and sense their immediate surroundings. Most of this from a city length distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPgRcEFcu9c

Kreia even went as far to follow, and guide Meetra through the entire journey through Koriban while staying on the ship.

These are TP feats that work on many TP resistant people as well shows distance.

Nico's my trump card, I'm not using him until absolutely necessary, and right now it's not necessary.

They're not dropping me with a thought or killing me in a blitz. Remember, I need about one second to win because one second is all it takes for Piper to yell STOP. And she has six skeleton warriors protecting her. Your characters aren't defeating six warriors in less time than it takes Piper to say a word.

"Stop" takes alot longer than the Force Lightning reaction of Revan. Still not convince your mind control will work anyway. Revan has top notch defenses as does Kreia.

You can claim all you want how impossible your power is to resist, but facts are my team is faster than spoken words, and will know of this attack thanks to the 10 minuet prep anyway.

Kreia Farsight is insane incredible and accurate. She will more than possible forsee this.

The ability to see past Space and Time to view the possible futures.

Kreia skill with this is such that she accurately predicts just about every outcome she forseen.

Gallery

Foreshadows the death of Mandalorian bounty hunter Jango Fett at the hands of Jedi Master Mace Windu approximately 4,000 years later, in a prophecy relating to the fate of the Mandalorians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0SI8Z6lpiw

Kreia accuratly describes the many futures of Meetra's teammates, and Meetra herself. Forsees the threat of the Sith Empire that will wage war in the The Old Republic games. Forsees Meetra involvement with Revan.

Hell, they can't even get in range in that time.

Oh really?

Does it to Hanharr.

Visas notices Kreia's aura changes to that of the Dark Side. Confronts Kreia only to be easily Force Choked. Does it a second time later.

Force Chokes the powerful Darth Scion with no strain on Kreia's part.

Revan and Kreia can end this with force chokes. no distance needed. Try to yel stop when choking to death in seconds.

Satele and Ashoka can add to this.

Young Satele in a opening move TK KOes two armored sith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4YpxzoHv7s#t=56

Ahsoka slamming back a large squad of foes.

What now? Force Chokes and slams for the win. What is better is all the attacks I showed were opener moves, in character. Not to mention every single on of my characters has the ability to choke or slam yours by themselves. One person on my team can do this to your whole team.

My team has every bit advantage over yours.

Your characters aren't blitzing me, not only because they can't, but because none of them blitz in character. I am a fan of Star Wars, you will have to do better than that.

If your a fan of Star Wars, then why are you arguing their speeds and precognition reflexes? That makes no sense. a waste of my time actually. Also your wrong, they do blitz in character. many SW characters have blitz in the Movies, Comics, and TV show. So you must be a casual fan.

In fact, it's going to be the other way round. Hazel's taking your weapons out of your hands before you can say anything. Piper's telling you to stop before you do anything.

I proved how easily countered this is.

No they're not. Jedi aren't as fast as Arion who's supersonic.

There feats say otherwise.

Here is another just for fun.

Conclusions

• My team easily has a counter for your team. I have not even touch on all the abilities of my team to still win either.
• Your single character is not taking Lightsabers away, not since she is outclass by every member of my team in this area.
• my characters are all insane fast, have minor precognition, lightning fast reflexes, and burst speed to hit sound barrier speeds. They all can think a thought and end your team with Telepathy or Force.
• Your mind controle is iffy at best, working on characters with way less establish mental resistance than the long line of content for Star Wars. Kreia TP still by feats outstrips yours.
• Kreia's Farsight will be invaluable in winning this fight.With the prep time, she can pretty much figure what routs your team will make.

Counters!

@8bitgangsta said:

@thenewbluebeetle007:

I'd like to know, have your characters reacted to supersonic speeds? Because that's what they'll need. And anyway, they won't be able to do anything to defend themselves because their light sabers will be out of their hands. Your characters' TK outweighs mine? Hazel Levesque used thousands of bracelets to create a rope to prevent a few Amazons from falling into a chasm. And besides, you'll be gutted before you get your weapons back.

My characters all have super human speeds and reaction time thanks to the force.

Force of Speed and Force Leap are common Jedi abilities, which my entire team has here.

Just because it's a standard ability doesn't mean they have it, for example Speed Steal is a standard ability of the Speed Force but Barry Allen doesn't have it.

I already showed Kreia speed, so lets show off the others.

Revans speed.

Revan thinks and reacts to the speeds and attacks of the Emperor himself. Even reacting to several bolts of sith lightning with his reaction.

Reacts to Force Lightning again here.

Ahsoka Tano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF34Y71v2SQ

Even Ahsoka, the youngest one here has insane reaction time as she shows. Reacting to rapid blaster fire from Arua Sing, Cad Bane, and tons of Droids.

Bastila Shan

This chick is among the top Jedi of The Old Republic. she moves and reacts so fast that even Dark Jedi with the enhance abilities, and precognition are slain before processing her. Only the best of the best force users match her speed.

The fact is all my characters have a degree of super speed, and have insane reaction time thanks to the fact Jedi possess precognition on a level.

This is a flaw counter argument. If she has the reaction speed, then she thinks on that level of speed. Your argument is is like saying "I can react to bullets after they are fired from the gun, the bullet being in flight, but I cannot perceive, think, and make a decision faster than a bullet? She has mentally dropped a Jedi ready to attack, and dropped several trained Sith Force Sensistove before they could attack.

You're wrong on this. That's exactly what I'm saying. Reaction isn't something you think about. It's instinct. For example, if you accidentally put your hand on a hot frying pan or something, you don't think, "Oh wow, this frying pan is hot, I should remove my hand," you just remove your hand because of instinct.

Further more she has shown to use the force at speeds of rapid Blaster bolts with one hand. Tutaminis is a force power that requires her to think of using.

She is mentally shutting you down. Prove her ability is like solving a hour long math problem. BTW, there is many people in the world who are human calculators. They can think and possess math problems in a instant, but cannot run at all. Whats your argument to that? Besides I covered this above with Force speed.

Sorry, what? Prove that her TP is different is different from her reaction speed? Isn't that obvious? And anyway if that's true, then your characters break the limits and should be disqualified, as they have reacted to dark lightning which moves at the speed of light itself. Do I have to tag SirFizzWhiz or are you going to stop being ridiculous?

As for your example, that's absolutely correct, in fact it affirms what I said. Just because you're fast in one thing doesn't mean you're the same speed in another. If that were true anyone that has reacted to lightning ever would be lightspeed.

She never used TP mid battle, she used it at the start of Battles, or any meeting. She specializes in telepathy side of the force and always used it as her first means of control or attack.

But we're already mid battle because she has to fend off Hazel's blitz...

I showed her instantly TPing a Jedi who had a very powerful natural mental resistance before being a Jedi, Bao-Dur. Dropped him the moment he threaten her.

Can you prove they are more powerful in TP? What have they done? Just because they are gods means nothing. Kreia on the other hand has used TP to such effect to mentally sway or dominate the strongest Jedi who in turn train for it.

What have they done? Cupid makes people fall head over heels in love on a daily basis. Gaea has manipulated many gods. Tartarus makes person want to jump off a cliff or drown as soon as they enter his domain. And these are all omniscient, omnipotent, all-powerful gods that literally vaporize people by looking at them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGiM-85AHyo

Atris was never able to sense Kreia in their first meeting at the Telos Academy. Continues to use it on Atris at the beginning of their second meeting back on Telos. Three Jedi Masters could not sense her at all, and admit as much when Kreia reveals herself. She also ends up hidden from the Jedi Disciple on the ship for a lengthy time.

She exclaims how she kept Attris and the Jedi council even remembering she existed, even when she was around them. She might as well never existed to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGiM-85AHyo

Tons of examples of her using Telepathy to project her thoughts into others heads, and sense their immediate surroundings. Most of this from a city length distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPgRcEFcu9c

Kreia even went as far to follow, and guide Meetra through the entire journey through Koriban while staying on the ship.

These are TP feats that work on many TP resistant people as well shows distance.

Nico's my trump card, I'm not using him until absolutely necessary, and right now it's not necessary.

They're not dropping me with a thought or killing me in a blitz. Remember, I need about one second to win because one second is all it takes for Piper to yell STOP. And she has six skeleton warriors protecting her. Your characters aren't defeating six warriors in less time than it takes Piper to say a word.

"Stop" takes alot longer than the Force Lightning reaction of Revan. Still not convince your mind control will work anyway. Revan has top notch defenses as does Kreia.

Again, this is reaction speed, not combat speed. These are two very different things.

You can claim all you want how impossible your power is to resist, but facts are my team is faster than spoken words, and will know of this attack thanks to the 10 minuet prep anyway.

You never stated what you would do in your prep... and anyway if your team is faster than spoken words then they are over the limit and should be banned.

Kreia Farsight is insane incredible and accurate. She will more than possible forsee this.

The ability to see past Space and Time to view the possible futures.

Kreia skill with this is such that she accurately predicts just about every outcome she forseen.

Gallery

Foreshadows the death of Mandalorian bounty hunter Jango Fett at the hands of Jedi Master Mace Windu approximately 4,000 years later, in a prophecy relating to the fate of the Mandalorians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0SI8Z6lpiw

Kreia accuratly describes the many futures of Meetra's teammates, and Meetra herself. Forsees the threat of the Sith Empire that will wage war in the The Old Republic games. Forsees Meetra involvement with Revan.

Hell, they can't even get in range in that time.

Oh really?

Does it to Hanharr.

Visas notices Kreia's aura changes to that of the Dark Side. Confronts Kreia only to be easily Force Choked. Does it a second time later.

Force Chokes the powerful Darth Scion with no strain on Kreia's part.

Revan and Kreia can end this with force chokes. no distance needed. Try to yel stop when choking to death in seconds.

Are you serious right now? The Jedi, protectors of the innocent, fair and just knights of the galaxy, who abide by a high moral code, are going to choke a random enemy that they meet on the street? Come on now. The versions of the characters you're using are Jedi, not when they were on the dark side - if it is from when they're from the dark side then their teamwork would be horrible in fact they'd be too busy fighting each other to fight me.

Satele and Ashoka can add to this.

Young Satele in a opening move TK KOes two armored sith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4YpxzoHv7s#t=56

Ahsoka slamming back a large squad of foes.

What now? Force Chokes and slams for the win. What is better is all the attacks I showed were opener moves, in character. Not to mention every single on of my characters has the ability to choke or slam yours by themselves. One person on my team can do this to your whole team.

I have my skeletons to shield me, and they don't choke in character. In addition, the Sith noticed her and even said "Another Jedi!" yet Piper won't have time to say "Stop" ? Doesn't make sense

My team has every bit advantage over yours.

If your a fan of Star Wars, then why are you arguing their speeds and precognition reflexes? That makes no sense. a waste of my time actually. Also your wrong, they do blitz in character. many SW characters have blitz in the Movies, Comics, and TV show. So you must be a casual fan.

Many SW characters have blitzed yet I've never seen Revan Ahsoka or Kreia do it.

Conclusions

• My team easily has a counter for your team. I have not even touch on all the abilities of my team to still win either.
• Cool. You want to stop the playing and get to the real stuff? Because I am.
• Your single character is not taking Lightsabers away, not since she is outclass by every member of my team in this area.
• Perhaps not, but that's not the only thing we're doing. My team is greater than the sum of its parts, unlike yours.
• my characters are all insane fast, have minor precognition, lightning fast reflexes, and burst speed to hit sound barrier speeds. They all can think a thought and end your team with Telepathy or Force.
• Travel speed is not combat speed. How many times do I have to say this? Travel speed, reaction speed, combat speed, TP speed... they're all different. Firestorm once travelled 4.5 light years in an instant but I'd never argue that he's more than a thousand times the speed of light in combat.
• Your mind controle is iffy at best, working on characters with way less establish mental resistance than the long line of content for Star Wars. Kreia TP still by feats outstrips yours.
• Please. In a later part I will show you how powerful Piper's charmspeak is.
• Kreia's Farsight will be invaluable in winning this fight.With the prep time, she can pretty much figure what routs your team will make.
• NLF. You can't figure out the exact route my team will take. The only thing Kreia will see is her death.

The Plan!

When the fight starts, we will be attacking you in multiple ways. First, Hazel will be blitzing you, tugging on your weapons, throwing metal at you. Frank will be shooting you with his arrows. Nico will open a fissure underneath you. Piper will be charmspeaking. There's absolutely no way that you react to all of that at the same time. It's conceivable that you could react to one of them, but it's impossible for anyone in this tourney to react to it all at the same time

My Turn to Proof Spam!

Piper:

• Made a machine alive - do I have to prove a machine immune to TP?
• Charmspoke the omnipresent, nigh-omnipotent, nigh-omniscient Olympian gods all at once
• Charmspoke Gaea, the very Earth itself into going to sleep.
• Charmspoke people over the radio - so basically, if you hear her, you're doing what she wants.
• Brought a person back from the dead with her charmspeak - do I have to prove the laws of nature immune to TP?
• Charmspoke

Nico

• Resisted Gaea's manipulation - Gaea has manipulated multiple gods at a time, many demigods etc
• Resisted Cupid's love magic - Cupid literally makes people fall in love with others for fun
• Resisted Tartarus's persuasions - Tartarus makes anyone that enters their domain wants to kill themselves

Hazel

• Moved huge sheets of metal from the bottom of the sea in Alaska to where she was standing
• In a second, made a fifty foot long rope out of bracelets
• Used the metal on peoples' bodies to cast them away (against Amazons) - not too sure about this I'll check and get back to you

Summary!

To win this fight, you'd have to be able to react to:

- A fissure

- Metal flying at you

- Arrows flying at you

- A supersonic horse and sorceress blitzing you

And then with the supersonic horse chasing you, arrows and metal flying at you, and with the ground opening underneath you, you'd have to defeat six trained skeleton warriors - all before Piper has time to say one word.

That's not happening.

Flaws in your argument!

1. You believe that reaction speed, combat speed, travel speed and telepathy speed are all the same. They're not, and I don't care what you have to say regarding this because the voters will think so too.

2. Even your characters have had their mental defenses breached. And my manipulation is quicker than yours. Also, my manipulation is magic based, not TP based.

3. You're using arguments that are totally not in character for any of your team members. SW characters almost never blitz, they usually engage in a sword fight. Jedi certainly never do choke holds. I, on the other hand, have provided strategies that my characters most definitely do in character.

I'm ready to open this up for votes if you are. But if you make another post, then I get a reply in before votes. You don't get to start the debate and finish it too.

@thenewbluebeetle007: before we go on, you character Piper breaks the rules. Your stating their is no way to resist her Charm Speak. That breaks the rule of the Sign up thread that your character TP abilities must be shown to be resisted by proven high willpower or mental defenses.

So you really telling me this Piper is impossible to resist, especially with character high mental resistance?

@sirfizzwhiz: There are ways to resist it. Other magic users are unaffected. Gold nullifies charmspeak. There's other stuff too.

@sirfizzwhiz: also I suppose if your character has resisted someone more skilled than piper he wood be resistant.

@8bitgangsta: @thenewbluebeetle007: Thats fine.

@sirfizzwhizz: @thenewbluebeetle007: Im ready for votes honestly.

Speed Argument

Your best attempts is to ignore my posts of Speed. I showed the reaction speed and such on my team. I showed them in both posts, and you wish to discount it. Also for the record, the teams have Burst speed abilities. Your suggesting my team who react, and use force powers to deflect or counter volleys of blaster fire with ease is mere Peak human? Its not arguable. Stop trying to argue around it by ignoring it. Its not my fault your team is very slow unlike mine. not to mention ALL JEDI have slight precog which is why they can wield Lightsaber and block Blaster fire period.

Versatility of powers.

My team has many ways to counter or kill yours. No matter what your "limited" on powers team can do, most of my team by themselves can counter. My team has super speed. Your team has one speedster. My team Force TK/Force Choke and do not need to blitz at all. I showed them opening up with TK attacks as well. Its not out of character as your ignorantly arguing. Kreia alone can TP Most of your team alone.

Tugging Lightsabers, who cares?

Not only every individual on my team has better TK than your Metal Bender there, but they do not even need their lightsabers. They can stille asy solo with Force Powers alone.

Arrows and Fissures. Thats it?

My team can kill ya by thinking it or waving a hand, your team makes a little earthquake or arrows? These guys who have near perfect agility and defelect rapid fire blasters with their hands? Right.

Farsight

I still see NO COUNTER for my ten minuets prep. Kreia will likely already be prepare or know of your plans. She would know of the many outcomes. You have no counter to this except saying "All she will see is the ways she dies."

Proof.

I provided proof, you provided empty arguments and in turn ignore my proof.

Im ready for Votes.

The Final Rebuttal

Reiterating Strategy and Summarizing

I think that I outlined a very clear strategy that you wouldn't be able to counter. And, you haven't directly responded to it either. Anyway, I'll say it again.

Offense

1. Hazel is going to blitz with Arion, tug the lightsabers from your hands, fling metal at you etc.

2. Nico is going to open a fissure in the ground.

3. Frank will shoot arrows at you (steps 1-3 are happening at the same time)

4. Piper is going to yell STOP. You will stop. Then Hazel will stab you. GG

Defense

1. Your TP isn't going to affect Piper who has her own persuasion, or Nico who has resisted beings far more powerful than you.

2. You have absolutely no chance of getting past the initial blitz, and defeat the six skeleton warriors protecting Piper, and then prevent her from speaking, before she has time to speak. If you were fast enough to that, then you're faster than mach 5 and thus break the limit and should be disqualified.

3. Jedi don't TK choke in character. They can't TK slam fast enough, especially not while also having to react to the fissure, arrows, metal and Hazel.

Proof

1. Piper can charmspeak you because she has charmspoken nigh omniscient, nigh omnipotent, nigh omnipresent gods, and once she even charmspoke the very Earth itself. In addition her persuasion isn't TP, it's magic, but she has her fair share of mind control resistance feats (resisted Gaea, and Medea the sorceress).

2. I know I haven't shown any direct quotes, but I told you the feats, and you can ask anyone, they're all legit.

Other Stuff

1. Your team has more firepower than mine, I will admit. However, my team clicks in a way that your team simply doesn't. Any weakness that one person might have, another person directly counters. Your team isn't both getting past the initial blitz and defeating the skeletons before Piper has a chance to speak.

2. Even if you do get past all this, I haven't seen how you'll put down Nico. He's invisible and can teleport, so you're not tagging him. He's also highly resistant to TP and has insane willpower. He can just play with you until you run out of stamina. Or he can have the skeleton warriors (who you can't put down) defeat you.

Voting Time!

@sirfizzwhizz: we'd like to open for votes.

@arcus@hulkage@jacthripper@ssj_god@cosmicallyaware1@icecold14@comicdude360@darkraiden@roronuffy@sightlessreality@solomonthenotsowise@oceanmaster21: come vote if you have the time

I'll give my vote to @thenewbluebeetle007: because he several great points. I do believe from what he stated Piper's charm speak would work and that she could get say something before the Jedi get to her.

@cosmicallyaware1@i_like_swords@tparks@wyldsong@beatboks1@juiceboks@floopay@strider92@darthant66@boschepg Take a quick look, and vote please.

@thenewbluebeetle007:

This is blatant rule abuse then.

This.

1. Piper can charmspeak you because she has charmspoken nigh omniscient, nigh omnipotent, nigh omnipresent gods, and once she even charmspoke the very Earth itself. In addition her persuasion isn't TP, it's magic, but she has her fair share of mind control resistance feats (resisted Gaea, and Medea the sorceress).

And This.

Your saying your character cannot be resisted by my characters who have insane high TP defenses? Something all Jedi train for since they were children? Kreia inlcuded?!

Yeah, thats against the rules posted in the OP above.My team can either resist it with dicculty, or not. There is no way your going to say you can just mind contrl them with no effirt, and you win. Magic or not, its a Mental attack.

I know we are in votes, but thats against the rules period. Your trying to slip in a "I win" character. Not that my characters can drio this one with speed, but thats all voters are going to see, and thats not right.

@8bitgangsta: I went over this with sir fizz whiz the admin and he was okay with it. That's all that matters.

Score:

TNBB 1-0 8bit

Well this was the rules when we built our teams found in the OP above.

• TP and Soul Rape are limited. If your character is so powerful that proven mental resistance cannot hope to overcome them, there too high.

If this is true, then My characters should have some resistance to it. Thats all. I hope voters take this into account. Otherwise your character defies the rules.

GG, and GL whatever the outcome.

@8bitgangsta: voters shouldn't take that into account at all. It's their job to see who won, not regulate which characters are allowed. That's the job of the admin.

But gg

@Joewell: thanks for the vote

8Bit gets my vote.

Who do I vote for?

Clear rule breaking:

1. It really seems like TNBB was breaking the rules with TP(although I doubt these gods were even omnipotent). Your words were omnipotent and omniscent and then you seemed to try and change ti to "nigh" to make it seems as if you weren't breaking the rules and any team actually has a chance. I mean aren't Gods magic users and they are affected although you say magic users resist it? These guys are freaking omnipotent according to you.
2. You can't want to disqualify someone for going a measly mach 5 while using characters that can beat omnipotent or nigh omnipotents at TP. Just doesn't work.
3. It seemed like you set up a trap. If he's under Mach 5 he can't tag you. If he's over Mach 5 he should be disqualified and he still wins. I do recall you talking about how they can see bullets in slow motion. So according to you, a characted would have to move FAR BEYOND Mach 5 do even be able to do anything to these guys. Seems like you left that out on purpose.

Speed: While I do agree the TNBB that you cannot tribute travel speed to combat speed and reaction speed - I felt that your arguement about telepathy was poor. Telepathy speed? Ehh not a good arguement to me. And I highly doubt telepathy would come in before someone get's to yell stop. I feel like your speed force anaology(which speed steal isn't really a standard ability). And if you're going to argue that someone has to be supersonic then you can't really try to ban them to be faster than "spoken words". That is super sonic which isn't against the rules.

Force Choke: I'm not a Star Wars fan. I've only watched like 2-3 movies which was years ago but it did kind of make sense that they wouldn't straight out force choke people because they are "protectors". But then I remembered we are talking about the same people who constantly try to decaptiate their enemies. They only arguements I really hard was "No I'm a bigger fan than you!" from both sides tbh. One side they don't do it and they get in sword fight(not much of a sword fight here if only one side has a sword) and the other side says they do it.

Anyways, my vote goes to @8bitgangsta. And from the way @thenewbluebeetle007 argued for his team, I feel like you've broken the rules from the start which is already enough for me to vote for the other side really.

@8bitgangsta: from what I've seen thus far, you've got my vote in this one. Be back to discuss why in detail later

@wardemon32: thanks for voting.

But, for the record, it's really not up to you decide whether my team breaks the rules or not. I'm not the admin of this tourney so I can't bend the rules, and we had ample time in the pm to question teams. In addition I talked to the admin about it and he said my team is fine. And he didn't show any willpower feats for Jedi anyway, and my tp is magic.

It just seems like you're voting based on the way my team supposedly breaks the rules instead of the actual debate.

@thenewbluebeetle007 said:

I may not have the power to decide who can let in who but I do have the power the use my brain and see what characters should and shouldn't be allowed and vote accordingly. It doesn't even matter if you had time to question characters. Point is that you used characters that were against the rules and I'm sure you knew it. Just because you snuck past doesn't mean it's okay.

The entire debate was based upon broken rules such as beating omnipotents/nigh-omnipotents. That is "supposedly" breaking the rules. That is breaking the rules. That was basically your entire arguement. The other was speed which you characters broke anyways. And that wasn't the only thing I took into account. I talked about the speed arguements, your telepathy arguement, and the force choke.

To add on to that ^ you even said you thought that piper could speak before the Jedi got to her, and believed her charmspeak was too powerful for this tourney so wouldn't that mean you thought my time would win?

@wardemon32: she didn't beat them. She just affected them, made them stop for a second or two.

Nowhere did i say she defeated them.

Haha I don't think I'll play much mid tier after this, too many rules

Being to even infuluence them for a second or two is far beyond the limits of this tourney. "Charmspoke the omnipresent, nigh-omnipotent, nigh-omniscient Olympian gods all at once". Here you made it seem like it lasted far longer but either way, it's far above the limits. Especially if it was multiple people since according to you it was.

This isn't too many rules. Just pick characters that fit within the limits.

If the Jedi is faster than sound then he would get to her befofre she could speak or even slower. Based upon what you've said, yes, your team would win. But your team wins because they break the rules IMO.

Whelp that got intense!

Both did good but I vote for 8bitgangsta. From a debating standpoint his formation of his information on his characters powers/abilities were better. His strategy seemed more thorough when it was explained and he incorporated his team as a whole better imo.

TNBB 1-4 8Bit

@thenewbluebeetle007: You got my vote bro and these people have no idea what they are talking about ;o

@icecold14: thanks for voting

TNBB 2-4 8bit

Bump for awareness

@8BitGansta: You got my vote

@sirfizzwhiz: I'd like to resign. It's a waste of my time if voters are going to count me out before the match has even started because they think my team is unfair.

Voting for @8bitgangsta. He spelled how his team would win pretty clearly. I think NBB had a few issues with the speed blitzing and saying that Kreia and Revan don't speed blitz, when basically every combat situation they encounter, is usually ended before it even begins through one of their force abilities, without even having to raise a saber. Kreia never even has had to raise a saber, because she blitzes with force powers from the start in character. I think NBB would have been better off accepting that she does this, and moving on by showing how his team can either resist this, or somehow avoid it. Maybe there isn't a way for them to, and that could be why. Either way, it was a fun read, and both did a good job.

Thanks for a fun read to both!

EDIT: I want to make sure that 8BG knows that I did not vote based on a technicality of rules as it seems to be an issue from the comment above. I voted only because I think he did a better job. Thought I should make this clear so there isn't any asterisk next to my vote, and because I think 8BG deserves the recognition for a good debate.

Like I said before, both did a great job, I just think 8BG did a little better.

Dang a bunch of drama queens making a big deal about some stupid rule lol