This topic is locked from further discussion.

#151 Edited by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

Dcnu supes can hit the flash,avoid for some time the omega beams (Barry Allen was exhausted for escaping them), read (and learn from) every medical texts ever published in seconds,he can do (in just seconds) what a super-computer can do with Years of time and he can move the whole earth out of orbit....just by punching it. So he is faster (a lot) than thor and he is also stronger than him.

Of course Thor can bring him down with his magical bolts, but i am still giving the edge to supes thanks to his superior speed and strength.

faster in what?

#152 Posted by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodinson: in fighting, in thinking and in hitting him.

#153 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodinson: please dont take offense to this....How about you try to calm down a bit and rea through the thread. I actually said Thor would win A's it stands right now. But I do favor superman and I have argued in other threads with different stipulations that superman would win an had good informed debtea with other viners my advice to u is to approach these threads with more of an optimistic attitude rather than what could be construed A's a contentious one

#155 Edited by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@bodinson: please dont take offense to this....How about you try to calm down a bit and rea through the thread. I actually said Thor would win A's it stands right now. But I do favor superman and I have argued in other threads with different stipulations that superman would win an had good informed debtea with other viners my advice to u is to approach these threads with more of an optimistic attitude rather than what could be construed A's a contentious one

There's the problem with debating on forums, people can read into posts just what they like, kinda like some of the people on here lacking the ability to comprehend the use of consecutive hyphens as an indication of a broken thought, not a statement of proof <<<How do you debate with anyone that reads what they want to in posts? Kinda like what you just did...lol

This site is riddled with these same things post after post, scan after scan...no wonder a decent debate can't be made.

Thanks though for inadvertently proving my point.

#156 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodinson: ......cool. You made your point and you are totally correct. You've never been wrong and we should all listen to what you have to say. Because you are perfect.

#157 Posted by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@bodinson: ......cool. You made your point and you are totally correct. You've never been wrong and we should all listen to what you have to say. Because you are perfect.

I honestly wish everyone had your great insight, if everyone was a little more like you things would be much improved.

Thanks for your very kind words, it kind of reinforces what I always knew anyways, great stuff. =o)

#158 Edited by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodinson: Ugh. Every word is like savory truthful accurate and precise chocolate

#159 Posted by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@bodinson: Ugh. Every word is like savory truthful accurate and precise chocolate

And even though it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, you can't but help yourself!

#160 Edited by XLR87T3 (3043 posts) - - Show Bio
#161 Posted by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodinson said:

@sog7dc said:

@bodinson: please dont take offense to this....How about you try to calm down a bit and rea through the thread. I actually said Thor would win A's it stands right now. But I do favor superman and I have argued in other threads with different stipulations that superman would win an had good informed debtea with other viners my advice to u is to approach these threads with more of an optimistic attitude rather than what could be construed A's a contentious one

There's the problem with debating on forums, people can read into posts just what they like, kinda like some of the people on here lacking the ability to comprehend the use of consecutive hyphens as an indication of a broken thought, not a statement of proof <<<How do you debate with anyone that reads what they want to in posts? Kinda like what you just did...lol

This site is riddled with these same things post after post, scan after scan...no wonder a decent debate can't be made.

Thanks though for inadvertently proving my point.

True that.

#162 Edited by BigCimmerian (8878 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor stomps.

#163 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman stomps

#164 Posted by Experio (17270 posts) - - Show Bio

You dare strike the Son of Odin Vile one? Thou hast push my patience to its very limit Superman, now shall you learn what it means to anger The God of Thunder!

As always I go for Thor but not because I like him more but because he is more powerful. Superman who has around 9+ powers which at least one at planetary scale. Thor has 30+ including his weather powers.

#165 Posted by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio: i don't know....superman can avoid his lightnings, distract or hurt him with his cold breath and his heath vision and he can litterally punch him thousands of times in the span of a second, with each punch generating so much pressure as if it was the whole earth coming against him.Or even more. This should be more than enough to put thor down for good.

#166 Posted by Gritterr (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

@experio: i don't know....superman can avoid his lightnings, distract or hurt him with his cold breath and his heath vision and he can litterally punch him thousands of times in the span of a second, with each punch generating so much pressure as if it was the whole earth coming against him.Or even more. This should be more than enough to put thor down for good.

can you please post scans of New 52 superman doing this

#167 Posted by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@gritterr:

Here Dr. Veritas is talking about when Superman could lift the equivalent weight of the earth..and possibly even more.(while he wasn't at full power)

#168 Edited by Gritterr (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom: Thor has blows that can rattle planets as well. I want to see a scan of supes punching somebody as you say 1000 times in the span of a second with earth shattering blows.

#169 Posted by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@gritterr: he has punched orion at superspeed deep underground,and later he has told that he was trying to be polite with him. So he has both the strength and the speed to do so.

#170 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman needs more feats

#171 Posted by Experio (17270 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom: Heat Vision and Freeze breath cannot equal to Thor's weather powers. It has been noticed in Thor: God of Thunder that he can summon Rain fire. Heat Vision wouldn't do that much of damage anyway and I'll tell you why. Thor has conversation in the Sun, stepped in lava as if it were sand and The Demon Surtur of Muphelheim has flames that are 10,000 hotter than the Sun and Thor is barely harmed by them. And Thor defeats Frost giants on daily basis and their freeze are equal/colder to Superman freeze. As you can see Thor has had worse than Supermans abilities but it doesnt go likewise. Superman has taken Electricity but compare Parasite to Thor's lightning. Do you see were I'm getting at? Marvel NOW Thor has been shown to be more powerful but I dont know about new 52 Superman thats why I can learn from Superman fans as well as have great conversation.

#172 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio:

Well I don't think that the feats you are talking about can be used for this Thor.Then I am not saying that superman's hv and cold breath are more powerful than mjolnir. For shure Thor's god blast is far above that, but still,i believe that they can hurt thor a little but mainly those powers can be used as a distraction in order to allow superman to use his full speed and strength which are his true advantages against him,even against this version of thor.

(then I don't know why people say that, but THIS thor is not stronger than the previuos one. Even Betaray Bill in 2004 has had a huge battle against Sturdust that was FAR more impressive than the one against Gorr..)

@sog7dc said:

Superman needs more feats

Being able to lift the whole planet while he wasn't at full power (and that was not even his limit), punching H'el so hard generating more pressure than the "lifting the earth feat" itself,tagging the flash, avoiding for some time the omega beams, being billion times faster than a super-computer without even trying are all the feats he needs, and they are more than enough to defeat even Thor.

Of course I am not saying that Superman is able to win against him 10 times of 10, cause Thor's magical lighting can still bring him down, but his far superior speed and strength should be enough to give him the edge.

#173 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

#174 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom: IMO it isn't. Thor was planet busting while not even on the planet. Superman hasn't displayed the durability to take that or the strength to replicate it yet. I want superman to win but the only advantage I see is speed. Superman needs to have his heat vision, arctuc breath, super breath, combat speed and combat skill defined to be on the level of hrming someone like Thor before I can say superman would win. And one thing superman really needs is for his combat speed and striking power to be strictly defined. It always been shrouded in ambiguity imo

#175 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

that planet shattering feat is higly ambiguous. And if I am going to be honest I am giving that to Gorr (mostly)and not to Thor. They were fighting each other but he was the strongest one...by far. So both of them have shattered that planet (somehow...),but since he was many times stronger than him that should be a Gorr's feat and not a thor's.

Then you say that the only advantage that you cleary see is the speed for supes, but I can't really see Thor being able to move the earth,let alone if he is not at his 100%. Let alone punching it out of orbit. This Superman, on the other hand, is so strong that Dr.Veritas wanted to open a black-hole to test his full strength,since lifting the whole planet for 5 days wasn't enough...even if he was weakened by the lack of sun's light.

Thor has had all this feats thanks to a nice space fight,and these are those kind of fights were we can get the craziest feats, but if we put Superman on a similar scenario ,against a powerful enemy,he has all the numbers and the feats to do even better.

#176 Edited by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom: You bring up good points but didn't Thor lift like 20 planets or something recently? Somebody said he did in another supes v Thor thread

#177 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

I have never seen thor doing something like that. if it is true he wins hands down, but if not (as i believe), supes is still stronger than him by a considerable margin.

#178 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom: I haven't seen it either. But that really has nothing to do with striking power. Who hits harder mike Tyson or mark Henry?

#179 Posted by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

I have understood your points.Still Thor may be able to hit harder thanks to mjolnir,but superman has demonstrated to be able to hit almost as hard if not that hard just with his fists but at the same time he is able to land many more punches thanks to his speed.

#180 Edited by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

@sog7dc:

that planet shattering feat is higly ambiguous. And if I am going to be honest I am giving that to Gorr (mostly)and not to Thor. They were fighting each other but he was the strongest one...by far. So both of them have shattered that planet (somehow...),but since he was many times stronger than him that should be a Gorr's feat and not a thor's.

Then you say that the only advantage that you cleary see is the speed for supes, but I can't really see Thor being able to move the earth,let alone if he is not at his 100%. Let alone punching it out of orbit. This Superman, on the other hand, is so strong that Dr.Veritas wanted to open a black-hole to test his full strength,since lifting the whole planet for 5 days wasn't enough...even if he was weakened by the lack of sun's light.

Thor has had all this feats thanks to a nice space fight,and these are those kind of fights were we can get the craziest feats, but if we put Superman on a similar scenario ,against a powerful enemy,he has all the numbers and the feats to do even better.

Oh, who honestly couldn't have predicted a DC fan downplaying a feat from Thor in favor of their precious EMOman.

That planet splitting is a feat for Thor, not Gorr. It's only stated that Gorr cut into thor(Piercing) but Thor was the one doing the concussive dmg, that planet busting open is as a result of Thor hitting Gorr, not Gorr slicing open Thor, besides apart from what is WRITTEN about that battle, you don't even see Gorr land a blow on Thor once.

Though in typical fashion and already established behaviour on the vine, DC Fanboys neglect/ignore Thor feats and over play the feats of EMOboy. Apparently he could lift the planet for 5days in a row, then land blows on said planet that has MORE force than required to lift the planet, all the while not punching the planet out of its orbit around the sun or even busting the planet wide open...But yeah, it kinda sounds "cool" so 1 for EMOboy...

Superman's heat vision and pepperoni breath won't do squat against Thor, speed is the only thing he has in his favor, if that is removed it's over kill in favor of Thor. I think you DC fanboys already know this much which is why you hold onto your precious speed blitzes so much. Thor is more than capable of withstanding extreme temperatures alas once again you ignore those types of feats and state that it can't be used(How shocking...).

All those feats are still canon for Thor. He withstood temperates at the core of the sun, he walked through the forge of the dwarves the same forge where mjolnir itself was forged! He withstood the temperatures of lava as if going for a spa roll in mud. He even hinted at the hellfire of Ghost Rider as being cold(Hardly even acknowledge hellfire as being warm in the slightest) stating that he bothers him little, he walked the icy wastes of Niflheim.

Thor should be more than capable of withstanding extreme temperatures, he is after all for all intents and purposes a decendent of Ymir himself, a being that was created out of the hottest flames of muspelheim and the coldest ice of Niflheim. Why after all this time would temperatures now suddenly be an issue for Thor, is supermans artic breath so much more colder than the coldest depths of space itself? Come on now... Now suddenly his heat vision is hotter than the sun that empowers him in the first place? The same sun in which Thor casually walked and visited his half-brother in?...

Superman has nothing on Thor, the only thing he has in his entire arsenal that MIGHT give Thor issues is speed and you know it. The rest he is leagues below the likes of Thor.

Thor has him beat in durability, strength, versatility, over all power, fighting skill, will and discipline.

Superman only has speed and that's all he'll ever have.

Thor for the win against Superman, all day every day.

#181 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodinson said:

Oh, who honestly couldn't have predicted a DC fan downplaying a feat from Thor in favor of their precious EMOman.

That planet splitting is a feat for Thor, not Gorr. It's only stated that Gorr cut into thor(Piercing) but Thor was the one doing the concussive dmg, that planet busting open is as a result of Thor hitting Gorr, not Gorr slicing open Thor, besides apart from what is WRITTEN about that battle, you don't even see Gorr land a blow on Thor once.

Though in typical fashion and already established behaviour on the vine, DC Fanboys neglect/ignore Thor feats and over play the feats of EMOboy. Apparently he could lift the planet for 5days in a row, then land blows on said planet that has MORE force than required to lift the planet, all the while not punching the planet out of its orbit around the sun or even busting the planet wide open...But yeah, it kinda sounds "cool" so 1 for EMOboy...

Superman's heat vision and pepperoni breath won't do squat against Thor, speed is the only thing he has in his favor, if that is removed it's over kill in favor of Thor. I think you DC fanboys already know this much which is why you hold onto your precious speed blitzes so much. Thor is more than capable of withstanding extreme temperatures alas once again you ignore those types of feats and state that it can't be used(How shocking...).

All those feats are still canon for Thor. He withstood temperates at the core of the sun, he walked through the forge of the dwarves the same forge where mjolnir itself was forged! He withstood the temperatures of lava as if going for a spa roll in mud. He even hinted at the hellfire of Ghost Rider as being cold(Hardly even acknowledge hellfire as being warm in the slightest) stating that he bothers him little, he walked the icy wastes of Niflheim.

Thor should be more than capable of withstanding extreme temperatures, he is after all for all intents and purposes a decendent of Ymir himself, a being that was created out of the hottest flames of muspelheim and the coldest ice of Niflheim. Why after all this time would temperatures now suddenly be an issue for Thor, is supermans artic breath so much more colder than the coldest depths of space itself? Come on now... Now suddenly his heat vision is hotter than the sun that empowers him in the first place? The same sun in which Thor casually walked and visited his half-brother in?...

Superman has nothing on Thor, the only thing he has in his entire arsenal that MIGHT give Thor issues is speed and you know it. The rest he is leagues below the likes of Thor.

Thor has him beat in durability, strength, versatility, over all power, fighting skill, will and discipline.

Superman only has speed and that's all he'll ever have.

Thor for the win against Superman, all day every day.

honestly after reading your post and finding sentences such as "Oh, who honestly couldn't have predicted a DC fan downplaying a feat from Thor in favor of their precious EMOman." or "DC Fanboys neglect/ignore Thor feats and over play the feats of EMOboy." or even "Superman's heat vision and pepperoni breath won't do squat against Thor" i wasn't even going to respond to you. However i still wanted to give a chance to the rest of the post....and that's was my fault.

so

1-that planet was going into pieces thanks to both Thor AND Gorr. Now ,since Gorr was the one who greately eclipsed the other i am simply going to assume that what happened was mainly thanks to Gorr's power....since thor has never demonstarted to have the power to blow up things WITHOUT touching them. Then you say that Thor was the one who was doing the damages but obviously (i say obviously but it might not be so obvious to you) Gorr was fighting back. Actually we can see the planet breaking apart just once Gorr has put Thor on the ground. Just see the same scan you have posted.(Gorr was fighting back even in the panel in the middle)

2- Regarding your "superman heat vision and pepperoni breath" i have never said that Superman will win thanks to that powers. But for shure they can help him, they can distract Thor,and they can probably even damage him,especially if used in tandem. You say that Thor can walk into the lava? Fine.So can do Superman.(by the way heat vision is hotter than lava). You say that Thor can take the heat of the sun? Fine,so can Superman (and by the way hv is probably hotter than the core of the sun too).

3- Then you say "why he has not moved the planet with those punches?" he has not moved the planet cause he was not hitting it but H'el a guy who was even more powerful and durable than him.So despite every thing you say (even if in this regard you have simply said "Thor is stronger") Superman is stronger.By feats. And even by a considerable margin.

4- you say that Thor has a greater will.This may be true (even if i don't think so, for example think at pre-52 superman who was stated to have the greater will of the universe..) but that won't save him from being blitzed. However fyi Superman is another hero, not esactly an ordinary hero, known for NOT giving up.

5. "Thor is a greater fighter." Finally something on what we can agree. However even this Superman knows how to fight, he is not just a guy with amazing powers.

6-"Superman only has speed and that's all he'll ever have." that is untrue, but even if that was really the only advantage it is more than enough to allow him to see thor moving in slow motion and to end this fight in his favour.

Then again i am going to suggest you about using the proper attitude.There are enough Superman vs Thor threads ruined by flame wars.

#182 Posted by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

1-that planet was going into pieces thanks to both Thor AND Gorr. Now ,since Gorr was the one who greately eclipsed the other i am simply going to assume that what happened was mainly thanks to Gorr's power....since thor has never demonstarted to have the power to blow up things WITHOUT touching them. Then you say that Thor was the one who was doing the damages but obviously (i say obviously but it might not be so obvious to you) Gorr was fighting back. Actually we can see the planet breaking apart just once Gorr has put Thor on the ground. Just see the same scan you have posted.(Gorr was fighting back even in the panel in the middle)

2- Regarding your "superman heat vision and pepperoni breath" i have never said that Superman will win thanks to that powers. But for shure they can help him, they can distract Thor,and they can probably even damage him,especially if used in tandem. You say that Thor can walk into the lava? Fine.So can do Superman.(by the way heat vision is hotter than lava). You say that Thor can take the heat of the sun? Fine,so can Superman (and by the way hv is probably hotter than the core of the sun too).

3- Then you say "why he has not moved the planet with those punches?" he has not moved the planet cause he was not hitting it but H'el a guy who was even more powerful and durable than him.So despite every thing you say (even if in this regard you have simply said "Thor is stronger") Superman is stronger.By feats. And even by a considerable margin.

4- you say that Thor has a greater will.This may be true (even if i don't think so, for example think at pre-52 superman who was stated to have the greater will of the universe..) but that won't save him from being blitzed. However fyi Superman is another hero, not esactly an ordinary hero, known for NOT giving up.

5. "Thor is a greater fighter." Finally something on what we can agree. However even this Superman knows how to fight, he is not just a guy with amazing powers.

6-"Superman only has speed and that's all he'll ever have." that is untrue, but even if that was really the only advantage it is more than enough to allow him to see thor moving in slow motion and to end this fight in his favour.

Then again i am going to suggest you about using the proper attitude.There are enough Superman vs Thor threads ruined by flame wars.

1) Not once in the entire run was it shown that cutting or stabbing any of the Thor's had a force behind it capable enough of cracking even the planet that they were on, never mind a planet that is thousands of miles away. Now suddenly some stabs is going to perfrom this feat? How do we know how fast or hard Gorr ran the blade through Thor? The only thing mentioned there is Thor felt the weapon "creep" inside of him. For all we know Gorr slowly just ran the blade into whatever body part he could find, there is no way that stabbing Thor could release enough energy to make a planet crack open. That came from Thor's relentless blows on Gorr.

Where do you see Gorr laying Thor down on the ground? The last scan because of how it's drawn? There is no indication there, for all we know it's just a different angle where Thor and Gorr are both in the air, continuing from the middle panel where you can clearly see Thor is semi-laying backwards(after his swing at Gorr) already, the last panel then shows him looking over to the planet. Where do you find anything about Gorr "putting Thor on the ground" ? In the middle panel Thor is the one that laid a blow on Gorr, not the other way around. You can clearly see that by Gorrs head moving backwards as a result of the blow, but you can also clearly see it by the lines drawn trailing mjolnir, indicating that it was swung from a semi-downward position, upwards and to the left. Gorr did NOT give any blows in that scene.

Thor was the one that laid the blows in that battle, Gorr at best only ran his blade into Thor. That was a feat for Thor, period.

2) Now you go and do exactly what I said you're going to do and that is implying that his Heat vision is somehow hotter than the sun from which he gets his powers in the first place! Show me a scan stating that his heat vision is hotter than the core of the sun. Show me a scan that states it's at least as hot as the core of the sun.

3) What the... What does H'el have to do with it? In that battle apparently the shock waves was powerful enough to be felt all the way to watch tower in space but not powerful enough to shred the earth underneath H'el? He was hitting into the ground, with or without H'el, that is effectively what it comes down to. If H'el is lying on the ground and Superman is hitting him, he is hitting INTO the earth, but not shattering it with force more powerful than the force required to lift the earth? More DC rubbish.

4) I don't care about anything pre-52, this is new 52 superman.

5) Nor am I suggesting that he is just some pretty boy with some powers...

6) What else does Superman have over Thor?

#183 Posted by CheeseSticks (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor in Marvel Now > New 52 Supes

#184 Posted by isaac_clarke (5483 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

@sog7dc:

I have never seen thor doing something like that. if it is true he wins hands down, but if not (as i believe), supes is still stronger than him by a considerable margin.

Thor hits a lot harder than Superman can imagine.

@toptom said:

1-that planet was going into pieces thanks to both Thor AND Gorr. Now ,since Gorr was the one who greately eclipsed the other i am simply going to assume that what happened was mainly thanks to Gorr's power....since thor has never demonstarted to have the power to blow up things WITHOUT touching them. Then you say that Thor was the one who was doing the damages but obviously (i say obviously but it might not be so obvious to you) Gorr was fighting back. Actually we can see the planet breaking apart just once Gorr has put Thor on the ground. Just see the same scan you have posted.(Gorr was fighting back even in the panel in the middle)

How was the planet going into pieces from any participation on Gorr's part? He's stabbing Thor and he's been able to penetrate Thor with little resistance before - let alone without causing planetary destroying shockwaves. Thor on the other hand is hitting Gorr as hard as he can with Mjolnir to the point he's hurting himself - that's whats implied to be destroying the adjacent planets. Which Thor actually side-steps out of the fight to save once he notices people are on it - tapping into his inherent power to manipulate 'earth' from Gaea undoing the damage.

Quite literally it's Thor hitting Gorr that's creating planetary destroying shockwaves. Unless you can sensibly decode how being stabbed again by Gorr is doing that or participating in the process - eitherway 52 Superman has nothing on a striking power feat like this.

@toptom said:
2- Regarding your "superman heat vision and pepperoni breath" i have never said that Superman will win thanks to that powers. But for shure they can help him, they can distract Thor,and they can probably even damage him,especially if used in tandem. You say that Thor can walk into the lava? Fine.So can do Superman.(by the way heat vision is hotter than lava). You say that Thor can take the heat of the sun? Fine,so can Superman (and by the way hv is probably hotter than the core of the sun too).

Thor was flinging Gorr into into stars into that fight (which prompted Gorr to create solar sized weapons to beat three Thors). Outside 'Everything Burns' which dealed with magic fires from Surtur and his encounter with the Phoenix Force - Thor's never been burned by non abstract / skyfather level beings and has already tanked Hellfire and Firelord (whose sporting the same hotter than the sun heat).

Heat Vision if it's close to the pre-52 levels is hotter than stars - the issue is that's not a big deal in Marvel. Hell the narrative describing the forging of Mjolnir could melt stars and Thor's been in said forge sweating. Heatray vision should be a non-factor, just like the Surfer's cosmic blasts were when they fought one on one.

@toptom said:
3- Then you say "why he has not moved the planet with those punches?" he has not moved the planet cause he was not hitting it but H'el a guy who was even more powerful and durable than him.So despite every thing you say (even if in this regard you have simply said "Thor is stronger") Superman is stronger.By feats. And even by a considerable margin.

By what feats? Benching the planet's weight across his body for days using a machine? That feat? That about wraps up any argument for Superman's strength being in the same ballpark given Thor's God of Thunder displays of power. Certainly has better durability if he's tanking planetary destructive shockwaves from point blank (that's either by the correct interpretation of his battle with Gorr or yours).

@toptom said:
4- you say that Thor has a greater will.This may be true (even if i don't think so, for example think at pre-52 superman who was stated to have the greater will of the universe..) but that won't save him from being blitzed. However fyi Superman is another hero, not esactly an ordinary hero, known for NOT giving up.

Greater will? Why isn't he sporting a power ring again? And what does that have to do when you've got an assortment of new heroes thrown into his universe and this interpretation having a very different life to his counterpart?

Eitherway Thor was happily sitting dead center of a Universal, transdimensional, transtemporal bomb that was killing every god at once - including Thor across his life - as he sat dead center of it and absorbed the explosion into himself. That's a damn good showing of will power - instead of letting Gorr win, which he did, he instead said to hell with that and had every god in the universe praying to him across time.

@toptom said:
6-"Superman only has speed and that's all he'll ever have." that is untrue, but even if that was really the only advantage it is more than enough to allow him to see thor moving in slow motion and to end this fight in his favour.

Then again i am going to suggest you about using the proper attitude.There are enough Superman vs Thor threads ruined by flame wars.

You act as if Thor can't tag Superman - despite that speed being well within Mjolnir's striking range. But that doesn't matter without a lot more striking power - if we take God of Thunder as a testament to Thor's durability - Superman can't hurt him with his physical strikes - despite how many punches he throws. Flying into Thor really fast to destroy the planet won't cut it.

Superman

Hey man have you read God of Thunder 9? The one where Thor's hitting people hard enough to create wormholes and hitting people hard enough to destroy adjacent planets? Pretty cool stuff. I'm sure 52 Superman's all over that though.

#185 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

@sog7dc:

I have never seen thor doing something like that. if it is true he wins hands down, but if not (as i believe), supes is still stronger than him by a considerable margin.

Thor hits a lot harder than Superman can imagine.

@toptom said:

1-that planet was going into pieces thanks to both Thor AND Gorr. Now ,since Gorr was the one who greately eclipsed the other i am simply going to assume that what happened was mainly thanks to Gorr's power....since thor has never demonstarted to have the power to blow up things WITHOUT touching them. Then you say that Thor was the one who was doing the damages but obviously (i say obviously but it might not be so obvious to you) Gorr was fighting back. Actually we can see the planet breaking apart just once Gorr has put Thor on the ground. Just see the same scan you have posted.(Gorr was fighting back even in the panel in the middle)

How was the planet going into pieces from any participation on Gorr's part? He's stabbing Thor and he's been able to penetrate Thor with little resistance before - let alone without causing planetary destroying shockwaves. Thor on the other hand is hitting Gorr as hard as he can with Mjolnir to the point he's hurting himself - that's whats implied to be destroying the adjacent planets. Which Thor actually side-steps out of the fight to save once he notices people are on it - tapping into his inherent power to manipulate 'earth' from Gaea undoing the damage.

Quite literally it's Thor hitting Gorr that's creating planetary destroying shockwaves. Unless you can sensibly decode how being stabbed again by Gorr is doing that or participating in the process - eitherway 52 Superman has nothing on a striking power feat like this.

@toptom said:
2- Regarding your "superman heat vision and pepperoni breath" i have never said that Superman will win thanks to that powers. But for shure they can help him, they can distract Thor,and they can probably even damage him,especially if used in tandem. You say that Thor can walk into the lava? Fine.So can do Superman.(by the way heat vision is hotter than lava). You say that Thor can take the heat of the sun? Fine,so can Superman (and by the way hv is probably hotter than the core of the sun too).

Thor was flinging Gorr into into stars into that fight (which prompted Gorr to create solar sized weapons to beat three Thors). Outside 'Everything Burns' which dealed with magic fires from Surtur and his encounter with the Phoenix Force - Thor's never been burned by non abstract / skyfather level beings and has already tanked Hellfire and Firelord (whose sporting the same hotter than the sun heat).

Heat Vision if it's close to the pre-52 levels is hotter than stars - the issue is that's not a big deal in Marvel. Hell the narrative describing the forging of Mjolnir could melt stars and Thor's been in said forge sweating. Heatray vision should be a non-factor, just like the Surfer's cosmic blasts were when they fought one on one.

@toptom said:
3- Then you say "why he has not moved the planet with those punches?" he has not moved the planet cause he was not hitting it but H'el a guy who was even more powerful and durable than him.So despite every thing you say (even if in this regard you have simply said "Thor is stronger") Superman is stronger.By feats. And even by a considerable margin.

By what feats? Benching the planet's weight across his body for days using a machine? That feat? That about wraps up any argument for Superman's strength being in the same ballpark given Thor's God of Thunder displays of power. Certainly has better durability if he's tanking planetary destructive shockwaves from point blank (that's either by the correct interpretation of his battle with Gorr or yours).

@toptom said:
4- you say that Thor has a greater will.This may be true (even if i don't think so, for example think at pre-52 superman who was stated to have the greater will of the universe..) but that won't save him from being blitzed. However fyi Superman is another hero, not esactly an ordinary hero, known for NOT giving up.

Greater will? Why isn't he sporting a power ring again? And what does that have to do when you've got an assortment of new heroes thrown into his universe and this interpretation having a very different life to his counterpart?

Eitherway Thor was happily sitting dead center of a Universal, transdimensional, transtemporal bomb that was killing every god at once - including Thor across his life - as he sat dead center of it and absorbed the explosion into himself. That's a damn good showing of will power - instead of letting Gorr win, which he did, he instead said to hell with that and had every god in the universe praying to him across time.

@toptom said:
6-"Superman only has speed and that's all he'll ever have." that is untrue, but even if that was really the only advantage it is more than enough to allow him to see thor moving in slow motion and to end this fight in his favour.

Then again i am going to suggest you about using the proper attitude.There are enough Superman vs Thor threads ruined by flame wars.

You act as if Thor can't tag Superman - despite that speed being well within Mjolnir's striking range. But that doesn't matter without a lot more striking power - if we take God of Thunder as a testament to Thor's durability - Superman can't hurt him with his physical strikes - despite how many punches he throws. Flying into Thor really fast to destroy the planet won't cut it.

@vaeternus said:

Superman

Hey man have you read God of Thunder 9? The one where Thor's hitting people hard enough to create wormholes and hitting people hard enough to destroy adjacent planets? Pretty cool stuff. I'm sure 52 Superman's all over that though.

your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for it lol but seriously that statement is categorically incorrect

#186 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodinson said:

6) What else does Superman have over Thor?

Since i have already adressesd all your points i am just responding to this question. Superman is still stronger and faster than thor.

@isaac_clarke said:

Thor hits a lot harder than Superman can imagine.

Hardly. Maybe he can hit slighty harder than superman , that's all. ( do you remember the H'el feat?). Still superman can land many more hit that are almost as hard as the thor's ones.

Quite literally it's Thor hitting Gorr that's creating planetary destroying shockwaves. Unless you can sensibly decode how being stabbed again by Gorr is doing that or participating in the process - eitherway 52 Superman has nothing on a striking power feat like this.

that feat is still unclear. Thor can not destroy things without even touching them or blasting them,shockwaves doesn't travle into vacuum and despite what you can say Gorr was fighting back. Then it is simply strange that they were fighting so hard that the moon where they were was more or less fine, but the planet far away wasn't. I am not saying that thor can't destroy a planet with one or two hit with his mjolnir, but that feat can't be attriubued just to thor at all.

Thor was flinging Gorr into into stars into that fight (which prompted Gorr to create solar sized weapons to beat three Thors). Outside 'Everything Burns' which dealed with magic fires from Surtur and his encounter with the Phoenix Force - Thor's never been burned by non abstract / skyfather level beings and has already tanked Hellfire and Firelord (whose sporting the same hotter than the sun heat).

...'cause thor wasn't ever being damaged by anything else behind that level of heat?

By what feats? Benching the planet's weight across his body for days using a machine? That feat?

..uumm,yes THAT feat still puts Superman above thor in strength. And then the H'el feat puts him above Thor even further.

Greater will?

i was not using the will argument to support superman. Try again.

Why isn't he sporting a power ring again?

Nonsense. Plus he doesn't even need it.

You act as if Thor can't tag Superman - despite that speed being well within Mjolnir's striking range. But that doesn't matter without a lot more striking power - if we take God of Thunder as a testament to Thor's durability - Superman can't hurt him with his physical strikes - despite how many punches he throws. Flying into Thor really fast to destroy the planet won't cut it.

I have never said that thor can not tag him,what i have said is that superman can still land much more hits than thor. That's different.You haven't even read my post.Then he doesn't have to fly against him,even if that move will be more than effective. He just needs to land one, two or ten punches with the same mass of the earth (or even more) against his skull. That will do the job just fine.

@vaeternus said:

Superman

Hey man have you read God of Thunder 9? The one where Thor's hitting people hard enough to create wormholes and hitting people hard enough to destroy adjacent planets?

Actually Gor was the one who could open that wormholes as well, since he has already shown that ability before (it looked even the same with the previous one he has already opened).

#187 Posted by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

@bodinson said:

6) What else does Superman have over Thor?

Since i have already adressesd all your points i am just responding to this question. Superman is still stronger and faster than thor.

wow, you convinced me, I'm sold on all the points you "addressed" zzzz

#188 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio
#189 Edited by isaac_clarke (5483 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for it lol but seriously that statement is categorically incorrect

Troll-Baiting OP takes a stand.

@toptom said:

Hardly. Maybe he can hit slighty harder than superman , that's all. ( do you remember the H'el feat?). Still superman can land many more hit that are almost as hard as the thor's ones.

It's hard to forget the one feat you're sticking to as an argument. But what's absurd is it in no shape gives Superman equal footing to Thor's in God of Thunder against Gorr. You quite literally comparing striking power that was causing shockwaves that could be slightly felt on the Watchtower to strikes from Thor that was leveling adjacent worlds thousands miles away.

That's just a really poor comparison that Thor is clearly outperforming by a massive margin.

that feat is still unclear. Thor can not destroy things without even touching them or blasting them,shockwaves doesn't travle into vacuum and despite what you can say Gorr was fighting back. Then it is simply strange that they were fighting so hard that the moon where they were was more or less fine, but the planet far away wasn't. I am not saying that thor can't destroy a planet with one or two hit with his mjolnir, but that feat can't be attriubued just to thor at all.

The fact that energy is still being transferred across a vacuum (to extent there is a lot of stuff floating in space) - as a reader - comes off as a testament to how much energy that striking power had. There is nothing unclear - Thor hits hard enough to destroy adjacent worlds when he lets loose. Gorr's weapon clearly has nothing to do with the showing because it's doing nothing but tanking hits - and stabbing Thor - the only cause for that planetary destruction is Thor's blunt Mjolnir strike's force.

There is no-one else to attribute that showing to and you can ignore that as much as you like - but that's case. The moon they were fighting on what blown to pieces what the devil are you talking about? As soon as Thor engaged Gorr - as the scan you posted - this happened.

As soon their fight began the Moon explodes as they are seen leaving it's atmosphere. To clear up your earlier point of confusion, notice how in the third panel there is no ground? That's because Thor and Gorr are in space.

The entire Avenger Thor vs Gorr:

Read from right to left.

...'cause thor wasn't ever being damaged by anything else behind that level of heat?

In 'Everything Burns' he was shocked at the fact the fires burned his hands. Thor normally doesn't even acknowledge the heat - the character has fought people in stars a few times now and its without burning an eye-lash.

..uumm,yes THAT feat still puts Superman above thor in strength. And then the H'el feat puts him above Thor even further.

The flaw with that showing is Superman doesn't actually:

  • Bench the Earth - just an assortment of machines, supposedly forcing the weight of the world on him.
  • All that weight is being put across his body - rather than just his arms.

It's more of a durability feat than anything else and even then it requires a leap of faith on our part as the reader to simply accept that everything said is completely true and accurate. Which I have no issue doing, however you argument where this proves superiority to Thor is hogwash.

We can make the claim Superman is physically stronger than Thor (as in lifting power) - but he is not anywhere close to as durable, nor does he hit anywhere as hard based off Thor's showing against Gorr. So what does that give Superman in a fight with Thor? Nothing to work with in either showing you're referrencing. If we use Gorr's fight with Thor as a measuring stick for how durable Thor is - Superman cannot hurt him in his New 52 iteration.

Superman could hit him all day and it wouldn't matter. That's ignoring that universal, transtemporal, transdimensional bomb Thor tanks in the same story arc.

i was not using the will argument to support superman. Try again. Nonsense. Plus he doesn't even need it.

Based off the pre-New 52 jargin, you claimed Superman is sporting the greatest will in the universe. Which seems inherently silly when you have an organization whose membership requires you to have extrodinary will power (GL Core) to join. Superman in every chance he's had - has been ignored by the GL rings who've chosen multiple people on the same planet over him - over and over.

I'm not saying Superman - like any hero - doesn't have tremendous will power - just that the greatest in the universe is hogwash. He doesn't even have the greatest on Earth.

I have never said that thor can not tag him,what i have said is that superman can still land much more hits than thor. That's different.You haven't even read my post.Then he doesn't have to fly against him,even if that move will be more than effective. He just needs to land one, two or ten punches with the same mass of the earth (or even more) against his skull. That will do the job just fine.

How much you lift doesn't translate directly into how hard you hit. And vice-versa. Not to mention Superman wasn't benching the Earth's weight on each arm - whether he can hit as hard as he lifts on each arm is HIGHLY questionable at best. Namely why when we talking about striking power, we don't focus on lifting feats but actual striking power feats.

Based off his fight with Gorr, Thor is not only much more durable (as his arm is the one delivering that planetary destroying force), but hits significantly harder.

If we ignore Thor: God of Thunder 9+ - this is a fight. If we don't, Post-52 Superman can't hurt Thor.

Actually Gor was the one who could open that wormholes as well, since he has already shown that ability before (it looked even the same with the previous one he has already opened).

Are you referring to him using the Time-God's blood to pluck young Thor from his time-line? Or his teleportation off Earth to avoid a younger Thor from cleaving his head off his shoulders? Because I don't remember Gorr making any wormholes this series at all.

And... Can you point out to me where Gorr made a wormhole in either scan?

Because this all looks a lot more like Gorr blasting a space-shark before young Thor hits him hard enough to create a wormhole since he clearly wasn't expecting the younger Thor. It would make sense given when Gorr lands - its in an explosion, not on his feet.

#190 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

first of all let me clarify this:

"The flaw with that showing is Superman doesn't actually:

  • Bench the Earth - just an assortment of machines, supposedly forcing the weight of the world on him.
  • All that weight is being put across his body - rather than just his arms."

Superman was lifting the equivalent weight of the earth....and that is the same of lifting the earth itself. So you can take your "supposedly",give him an hug and throw it away cause it was clearly stated on panel. Then yes, maybe the weight was being put across his whole body and not just on his arms...and then? Is he is not a planet mover anymore? Do you really think that when somebody throws a punch he is using just the muscles of his arm?(just to be shure the answer is no).

So we have settled this. There is no flaw at all in that feat. This new-52 Superman is strong enough to exceed such a feat like moving the earth even when he is not at his 100%.So at least this Superman is much more stronger than Thor when it comes to lifting power.

Then again with Thor smashing that planet....i don't even know what to say: you are obviously going to ignore the evidence. Thor was not fighting alone. Gorr was fighting back and he was the most powerful one.The moon on which they have fought wasn't destroyed...but somehow a near planet was damaged... Thor doesn't have the ability to smash things without hitting or blasting them..ecc..

so in the end that feat is due to both Thor AND Gorr. Again, i am not saying that thor can not break a planet on his own (because he can) but this feat doesn't prove that.

Superman could hit him all day and it wouldn't matter. That's ignoring that universal, transtemporal, transdimensional bomb Thor tanks in the same story arc.

Lol.Just throwing out attacks on that level was damaging him, he was going to tear apart his muscles and he could feel shaking his bones.Just by throwing them ,mind you.So we can simply immagine how he will be reduced if a not holding back Superman will throw against him a few punches (or hundreds) as powerwul as the ones which he used against H'el.You like to say that somehow he won't even feel them, that is laugable since Thor gets punched and damaged by beings who can't even dream about moving a planet, but somehow in this fight he will be durable enough to shrug off such attacks.Instead from what it is shown those punches can even kill him.

Then :"I'm not saying Superman - like any hero - doesn't have tremendous will power - just that the greatest in the universe is hogwash. He doesn't even have the greatest on Earth."

again i was NOT using that argument to support the outcome of this match. Plus that was Pre-52 Superman. Plus i don't care if you don't like that but it was stated as well.

Then (again) : "And... Can you point out to me where Gorr made a wormhole in either scan?" since you look incapable to look at a simply image i will help you:

Just look at the panel on the left, on the right corner.

#191 Edited by isaac_clarke (5483 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

first of all let me clarify this:

"The flaw with that showing is Superman doesn't actually:

  • Bench the Earth - just an assortment of machines, supposedly forcing the weight of the world on him.
  • All that weight is being put across his body - rather than just his arms."

Superman was lifting the equivalent weight of the earth....and that is the same of lifting the earth itself. So you can take your "supposedly",give him an hug and throw it away cause it was clearly stated on panel. Then yes, maybe the weight was being put across his whole body and not just on his arms...and then? Is he is not a planet mover anymore? Do you really think that when somebody throws a punch he is using just the muscles of his arm?(just to be shure the answer is no).

It was less of a lift and more of a pushing against for five days - that weight not only on his arms but legs.

With an implication that this isn't limit because he's been away from the sun for five days. It's a great feat, but its meant to be ambiguous and clearly not an indication of what each of his arms can do given he's not having the weight of the Earth on each arm and leg.

I like how I threw it away given I just pointed out that it's a little different than seeing Superman actually lift the weight a world - when instead the readers are being told he's been essentially pushing at a similar weight for five days. I already said I have no issue taking the feat as it is. It's less of a maybe and that's the only way it could have been done given he's strapped his limbs to a machine that is exerting that weight on him.

Planet moving is a different feat than lifting the weight of the world. Not to mention pre-52 Superman couldn't move the planet on his own - him, Wonder Woman and the Martian completely failed to do it in their attempt together. I already pointed out there is a difference between lifting strength and punching - you do not hit as hard as you lift and vice-versa. Namely why professional body builders lift a lot more than professional Boxers, who hit a lot harder than the body builders.

Lifting strength ≠ Striking Power

What about me pointing out New 52 Superman has literally no feats that could possible match that showing is 'ignore (ing) the evidence'?

You're trying to argue the shockwaves from Gorr stabbing (key word stabbing) Thor and Thor's strikes are destroying the adjacent worlds. Issue is with that is Thor's durability has already shown itself to not be able to block Gorr's weapon throughout that series and that Gorr was cutting into him with little to no resistance (nothing has changed since he fought him a thousand years ago). The only reason left for that expression of damage in that fight was Thor smacking Gorr with Mjolnir as hard as he could. That's using basic logic - you're arguing its too ambiguous or unknown to arrive at any conclusion outside Thor fighting Gorr destroys adjacent worlds - which is a perversion of Thor hitting Gorr - as hard as he can - is destroying adjacent worlds.

Go to you kitchen, grab a hammer and hit something. Hear that noise? Now stab a turkey with a knife. What's the difference? Seriously, explain to me how Gorr participates in this feat outside of being hit. I would love to hear how Gorr stabbing Thor, mixed with Thor hitting Gorr with Mjolnir causes planetary detruction actross a star-system at nearbye adjacent worlds.

Are you trying to ignore the moon exploding Gorr and Thor as they fight to argue or just completely oblivious to whats going onto that fight?

Thor apparently if hitting something durable enough to tank his hits - causes adjacent worlds to shatter. It's clear the moon they were on was exploding and you pretending otherwise is a bit out of this world.

Yes he was tearing his muscles, ratting his bones and cracking his fingers. This just means he's physically exerting himself to his limits - and surpassing them. He wasn't about burn out and already fought one of Gorr's beasts for several hours in the God Butcher arc. Thor's arm in that fight is more durable than Superman given it's not only delivering that kind of force to Gorr - but tanking it itself. Superman's best hits are being felt on the watchtower / pummeling someone into the dirt. Thor's are being felt a planet away and destroying it.

I like how you're ignoring Thor's fairly ridiculous damage soak (across his carrier) and focus on un-named showings where he's hurt by less than planet moving strength. That is despite New 52 Superman having not moved a planet. Lifting the weight of the Earth is not moving a planet - they're completely different feats. In other words pretending an orange is a lemon isn't an argument. It doesn't help that Superman is also sporting less than dazzling feats where he's been dropped by lighting bolts from Ocean Master - but that is the name of the low-ball game where we look at team books and see how badly each character does in them.

Stop relating striking power to lifting power. Show me Superman pulling off striking power feats remotely in the same ball-park and we've got a debate, otherwise you're just trolling.

@toptom said:

again i was NOT using that argument to support the outcome of this match. Plus that was Pre-52 Superman. Plus i don't care if you don't like that but it was stated as well.

I don't like it because I pointed out it was completely untrue using the most obvious plot device the GL ring chosing it's owner by will power? It's just an erroneous statement you're pushing when you've got an inter-galactic force that already passed Superman on the will-power department a dozen times now.

Well you did highlight something I missed when grabbing those scans - kudos. Albeit this seems more an instance of Gorr's weapon acting on Gorr's will - rather than Gorr doing anything himself. Given he's opened a total of 0 wormholes and that Thor's hit was the one that BFRed Gorr there. It's like that teleportation feat where Gorr just finds himself a power to escape death.

Hopefully you post something worthwhile - outside 'stabbing Thor is part of what makes those planets go boom!', 'Superman will just throw a million planet lifting punches - each with the weight of the world behind it!' or 'Look at Superman cut loose! His hits are being felt on the Watchtower - that's just like Thor fighting Gorr that was destroying the adjacent worlds!!!'. As it stands now Superman loses.

#192 Posted by Experio (17270 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom:

Speed is all Superman got, the point of being stronger is to prove he can hit harder. And that goes to Mjolnir, Thor is also more powerful and why isn't anybody mentioning Magic? Superman is still vulnerable to Magic in the new 52 (Dessad). So Mjolnir should have a much larger effect but even without the Magic advantage Thor has the upper hand.

#193 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio: Common misconception here. Superman is no more vulnerable to magic than, for example, the hulk, Hyperion, surfer etc. He just doesn't have a tailor made invulnerability for it.

#194 Posted by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: lol I can really admire you for your persistence in arguing with this fan boy. It's blatantly obvious he is just going to constantly ignore the feats of Thor.

He didn't even discuss my laid out analysis of the Thor vs Gorr scene when the planet crack opens. I mean how blind do you have to be to NOT see Gorrs head falling backwards and Mjolnir being swung? It's clearly indicated on panel in the same way a strike has always been shown in comics for decades now(Trailing lines), now suddenly it "doesn't show anything" and he goes out of his way to ignore Thor's feats.

Like I said above though, it's in typical fashion so not really surprising in the least, they'll always grasp at straws and ignore feats(Especially from Thor) to put their Superman in the same league as the Thunderer. Further proof as to how these fanboys operate. Thor's feat is wrong because there can't be shock waves in space, all the while having no problem accepting Superman's feat which is technically the exact same thing(They felt it in space)... so yeah, double standards much?

With superman it's feasible, with Thor it's not applicable because it can't be possible in real world circumstances...lol

#195 Edited by isaac_clarke (5483 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

@toptom:

Speed is all Superman got, the point of being stronger is to prove he can hit harder. And that goes to Mjolnir, Thor is also more powerful and why isn't anybody mentioning Magic? Superman is still vulnerable to Magic in the new 52 (Dessad). So Mjolnir should have a much larger effect but even without the Magic advantage Thor has the upper hand.

Superman has more than speed at his disposal - it's just most of his other abilities are next to useless here. It's clear he doesn't have the durability Thor's shown from his big fights and now its looking like he doesn't have the striking power either. Its not like Superman is particularly weak - I would say he's the current benchmark for strength in the new-52 universe (with the exception being Ultraman given the moon-feat).

You could argue that Mjolnir being a divine weapon will have an impact on this fight, but its other abilities aren't normally something Thor uses to fight a single individual - the only time I can recall Thor using its attributes beyond being a blunt object against a non-higher powered beings was in his fight with Nul and Angrir.

@sog7dc said:

@experio: Common misconception here. Superman is no more vulnerable to magic than, for example, the hulk, Hyperion, surfer etc. He just doesn't have a tailor made invulnerability for it.

The Surfer is no-where near as vulnerable to magic as Superman is.

@bodinson said:

@isaac_clarke: lol I can really admire you for your persistence in arguing with this fan boy. It's blatantly obvious he is just going to constantly ignore the feats of Thor.

He didn't even discuss my laid out analysis of the Thor vs Gorr scene when the planet crack opens. I mean how blind do you have to be to NOT see Gorrs head falling backwards and Mjolnir being swung? It's clearly indicated on panel in the same way a strike has always been shown in comics for decades now(Trailing lines), now suddenly it "doesn't show anything" and he goes out of his way to ignore Thor's feats.

Like I said above though, it's in typical fashion so not really surprising in the least, they'll always grasp at straws and ignore feats(Especially from Thor) to put their Superman in the same league as the Thunderer. Further proof as to how these fanboys operate. Thor's feat is wrong because there can't be shock waves in space, all the while having no problem accepting Superman's feat which is technically the exact same thing(They felt it in space)... so yeah, double standards much?

With superman it's feasible, with Thor it's not applicable because it can't be possible in real world circumstances...lol

You post is a bit too flame bait with the usage of fan-boy. But you did bring up the lingering thought in my mind while I kept repeating a comparison between the showings - Superman's is just a massively down-scaled version of what Thor did. Except the Watchtower didn't explode, but you get the idea.

#196 Posted by buttersdaman000 (10580 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel Now! Thor is how a Superman fan like myself wishes New52 Superman was written. After reading Thors' recent comics and comparing them to Supermans', it's looking like Thor comes out on top. It'll be a good fight though.

#197 Posted by Experio (17270 posts) - - Show Bio

SOG7dc: Superman is still vulnerable to Magic, in the new 52 he was cut by Dessad (Darkseid henchman) that put Superman to his knees. And in Batman and Superman he was scratch by a vampire girl also at first connect which put him down instantly in which Batman had to save him. I dont think DC will ever take out the Magic situation. Its cuts through his invulnerability, if Hulk was cut and has been he stays standing. Magic doesnt harm him the way it does to Superman

#198 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: @experio: Seriously guys there's an entire thread here called "superman myth" that clear up any misconceptions about a supposed "weakness" to magic. I'd rather not report everything so jury go check it out then come back

#199 Posted by Cgoodness (6145 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: this right?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/superman-myth-1493026/

But it's kinda hard to argue he's not vulnerable to magic with scans like this around

http://www.superheroes-r-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/05-Superman-V2-216-page-12.jpg

#200 Edited by toptom (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

looks like i have to correct you again. Lets begin then.

With an implication that this isn't limit because he's been away from the sun for five days. It's a great feat, but its meant to be ambiguous and clearly not an indication of what each of his arms can do given he's not having the weight of the Earth on each arm and leg.

I am sorry but that is simply ridicoulos. That feat is all but ambiguous. We have the numbers, we have the time,we have the motivation about why he was struggling a little. You want it to be ambiguous, 'cause we don't know how much weight he had on each arm or leg. It is funny though, this feat is ambiguous but the one in which Thor is somehow blowing a planet without even touching it is not. ;)

"Planet moving is a different feat than lifting the weight of the world. Not to mention pre-52 Superman couldn't move the planet on his own - him, Wonder Woman and the Martian completely failed to do it in their attempt together. I already pointed out there is a difference between lifting strength and punching - you do not hit as hard as you lift and vice-versa. Namely why professional body builders lift a lot more than professional Boxers, who hit a lot harder than the body builders.

Lifting strength ≠ Striking Power"

Firs of all it is meaningless talking about pre-52 Superman. I don't even know why you are mentioning him (and you do it even in the wrong way since he has exceeded the feat you are talking almost 3 times already....). This is new 52 Superman and lifting a planet = moving a planet.I am sorry. Somehow you are still pretending to find the flaw in that feat. If you lift something you are actually moving that objcet from the ground. If i am strong enough to lift a car then i am also strong enough to move it. Since a planet is in the vacuum lifting it equals moving it.Stop talking about oranges and lemons, try to use a bit of logic or common sense instead.

Then regarding your "lifting strength ≠ striking power theory" you could be right if Superman hasn't already surpassed that feat using merely his fists.

Stop relating striking power to lifting power. Show me Superman pulling off striking power feats remotely in the same ball-park and we've got a debate, otherwise you're just trolling.

How many times i have to talk about the H'el feat again? You have already told that i mention it too much...but looks like i haven't mentioned it enough. (of course i am the one who is trolling...)

"Yes he was tearing his muscles, ratting his bones and cracking his fingers. This just means he's physically exerting himself to his limits"

..umm..not really. If "just" hitting something with such a force damages him severely, being HIT with a similar force repeatedly can ko him or even kill him.

"Well you did highlight something I missed when grabbing those scans - kudos. Albeit this seems more an instance of Gorr's weapon acting on Gorr's will"

You wanted to see Gorr using/creating a wormhole and i have shown it to you. He has opened it when he has summoned that snake.Deal with it.

Then i think it is futile talking again with you about the Thor ( and Gorr's ) feat, since it is obvious we 'll never agree. Lets clarify just one thing: you say that the moon exploded....without any proof. Just fyi we can see just the ground craking,that's all.

@bodinson

"Thor's feat is wrong because there can't be shock waves in space, all the while having no problem accepting Superman's feat which is technically the exact same thing(They felt it in space)... so yeah, double standards much?"

you don't even know what you are talking about. Read that scan again.Take your time when you read the words: "to the farthest edges of our atmosphere".