This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Edited by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

ok so ive read a ton a battles on the vine and its always the same. no layers. this one is different. I present to you

new 52 superman versus

Marvel Now Thor

heres the scenario; dr doom and lex luthor have teamed up in an effort to either control both worlds, or destroy them. through a series of events it comes down to the fact that superman and thor have to square off until the team of batman flash cyborg iron man reed Richards and prof Xavier come up with a way to thwart th evil plot. the battle goes on for days and they have to go hard at eachother and not hold back or lex and doom pull the trigger and the worlds go boom. so theyre not holding back...but they don't want to kill eachother either. however they CAN die through exhaustion or punishment taken. so there it is. remember this is the new 52 version versus marvel now renditions of the characters

rules: thor CAN go into warriors madness

superman CAN cut loose in this to defend himself. and I mean really cut loose like imagine thor killed his ma and pa and banged lois....while wearing supermans cape. (haha)

#2 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Well i might have chosen superman before because of a lack of feats for my boy thor, after god of thunder issue 9 and how thor performed against the starbrand i think thor beats supes.

#3 Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Hmm this is a tough one. I think I'm going to go with Marvel Now Thor. Normally I would go with Superman but New 52 Superman is not as fast or as strong or as durable or as powerful as he used to be in the Pre 52 DC. While Thor is now getting more powerful with Marvel Now. plus New 52 Superman seems even less resistant to Magic than Pre 52 Superman. This is how I always viewed Superman vs Thor

Pre Crisis

Strength: Superman

Speed: Superman

Power: Superman

Durability: Superman

Stamina: Superman

Winner: Superman

Post Crisis

Strength: Superman is slightly stronger

Speed: Superman

Power: Thor is slightly more powerful

Durability: Tie

Stamina: Tie

Winner: Tie

New 52

Strength: Thor is slightly stronger

Speed: Thor

Power: Thor

Durability: Thor

Stamina: Tie

Winner: Thor

#4 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor ftw :). When a supes fan arhues i will start debating properly.

#5 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, do yourself a favour and remove Superman's speed advantage in the fight if you want it to be a fight, or you're up for a flame-war of mass destruction.

#6 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Your talking to the guy who created it right?

#7 Posted by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, so who do you support?

#9 Posted by MonsterStomp (17863 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman's guns are way bigger, he wins.

*sarcasm*

#10 Posted by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: Superman, due to the ridiculous speed advantage. If their speed would be even for the sake of a good fight, Thor would win.

#11 Edited by Wolverine08 (42153 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor.

#12 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor has shown himself to be quite fast recently and superman has not yet let loose speed blitsing that thor couldnt react to.

He was going up against people like apocolypse before mjolnir, he made it rain fire/lightning without it, he hit a guy so hard a black hole formed, he one shotted the guy with lightning while thor was near death (this guy he one shotted killed thousands of gods) without the hammer and he fought inside the sun without the hammer. He beats the shitaki mushrooms out of supes with his large hammer or chops supes up and fries him with jarnborn (he butchered apocolypse with it). And all the above feats were a young thor who hasnt discovered his true power. And thor's fighting skills are legend,

#13 Edited by RetconCrisis (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

New 52 Superman is much weaker than pre-Flashpoint. Thor wins.

#14 Posted by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: All of that doesn't matter on Comicvine, because of Superman's speed advantage, which gives him the ability to dodge everything Thor throws at him. Superman can punch Thor multiple times, before Thor can even raise his hand to do something and Thor is not going to ignore Superman's punches, since Superman is strong and his speed adds even more impact to the strikes, which is ultimately more damage.

Then there is also always the fact that fast characters can pick their strikes. They can aim for the chin, which increases the chances of a K.O. drastically, since once you get punched in the chin, chances are high that your head will snap back and you'll fall unconscious. Saying "Superman wins via K.O." looks like a lazy statement, but in a fight, where a character has a massive speed advantage, yet still the strenght do deal big damage, it's simply like that.

And none of the scans you can provide matter anything. It doesn't matter if you say that Thor fought against Silver Surfer, Gladiator and Sentry, because these fights got dumbed down for Thor - for sake of a comic fight. Such "plot induced stupidity / character induced stupidity" isn't there in a fight on Comicvine. Here - if a character has faster combat speed, his chances to win are very high. Therefore Flash is the undisputed and undefeated champion of Comicvine.

As I said it ... either Superman's speed gets handicapped for such fights, or we're all up for a huge flamewar coming from Thor fans, who see Thor fighting Gladiator and Sentry in comics on an "even" ground in terms of the speed and refuse to accept that Superman has that natural advantage here on Comicvine.

#15 Posted by Perethorn (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: I dont recall if New 52 Superman had FTL combat speed, for what i know he has only showed travel speed.

#16 Posted by dondave (37321 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: I dont recall if New 52 Superman had FTL combat speed, for what i know he has only showed travel speed.

Did Enzeru actually say Superman had FTL combat speed?

Online
#17 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Good arguement. Though i recall thor tagging loki who was said to be as fast as thought with his hammer by throwing it as fast as light. And he can go much faster as he travels lightyears in seconds. So he can throw it at it's travel speeds at supes and he can make it follow supes. He also has area of attack moves like his wind of 1000 worlds to shred supes.

He can also absorb supes heat vision and send it back 100 times as strong. He could also absorb supes solar energy like he absorbed kang the conqurers energies.

#18 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17298 posts) - - Show Bio
@enzeru said:

@sebast_allen: Superman, due to the ridiculous speed advantage. If their speed would be even for the sake of a good fight, Thor would win.

What? isn't current thor the one with speed advantage? I mean, they were fighting gorr across lightyears. And in the sun, too..

Online
#19 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats what im thinking. I posted pre mjolnir feats of thor, imagine if i post the current ones feats

#20 Posted by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

@perethorn: Idk if it's faster than light but in the interest of full disclosure he did speed blitz Orion and he was strong enough to hit Orion "...harder than I've ever been hit in my immortal life!" but to be fair to Thor while fighting Gorr (come on Jason Aaron you couldn't given us a better name than that) "avenger thor" was fighting to his full potential and cracked a planet as collateral damage. And for the Sam of consistent debate without conjecture let's keep it to the avengers version of Thor orbrather the "current" one. Not the young one without mjolnir an not the king version.

#21 Edited by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor. In Marvel Now, he was destroying multiple planets with his blows, flew a million times the speed of light, and hit Gorr so hard it created a black hole.

#22 Posted by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: Has Thor done the 1000 winds thing in marvel now? I know the other stuff still applies but for THIS battle I wanted to keep it to just the current renditions in the interest of fairness. Otherwise Thor would have a higher volume of feats than supes. That being said, I know Thor has the ability with mjolnir to absorb heat vision but take into account these two things: would Thor think to do this? I don't see him using that ability very often. Couldn't he absorb whatever energy Gorr is using? And remember the context of this fight. Thor and superman both know they're fighting another good guy but they can't hold back. They both have to fight hard to save both worlds and they both know nothing about the other guy. So Thor wouldn't even be aware of heat vision until he'd been hit with it. Also, to give Thor credit, he has his magic on his side but we must remember magic is a vulnerability not a weakness. And superman has his armor while Thor has his helmet and mjolnir. So this battle is alot closer than you might think

#23 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17298 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#24 Posted by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally think Superman is at a fundamental disadvantage because of 2 things:

1. Because the only time he's cut loose is the punch against h'el and the speedblitz against Orion

And

2. He's only fought on earth. If superman fought h'el off planet I think we'd have more higher end feats but as it stands today....it pains me to say but superman's only hope is his speed advantage.

#25 Posted by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: Yeah I can verify that Thor was in fact cracking a planet with his blows. There was only one that I saw but he did it. He was hitting Gorr and cracked a planet

#26 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: but your takimg away alot of feats of weather manipulation and strength from thor if you take away his young thor feats, we know that he can do all the stuff he did as young thor, thats why i didnt use king thor feats cos they didnt yet happen. Supes was almost k.oed by 10 gigawatts, who's to say thor couldnt double if not triple that easily.

#27 Edited by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: I didn't mean to do that. I'm

Not taking away those feats I'm just saying infant the ficus on avenger Thor. I just assume that if young Thor did itthen the older ones van do it

#28 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17298 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: If I recall right, it was king thor who did it. And gorr was throwing chunks at them, which they destroyed. I just posted the scans in another thread..

Online
#29 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Yip, but thor wins in a tough battle, the power he has been showing is amazing, fighting in suns, hitting so hard planets crack and wormholes form. Fixing planets via earth manipulation, one shotting gorr with lightning while thor was near death, butchering apocolyose, making solar storms to make his ship move faster than light, make it rain lightning and fire, easily destroying gigantic chunks of moon, being referred to as either a world breaker/world killer. Hurting the starbrand user. Thor wins....

#30 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: Thanks but excuse my ignorance do I get a bro fist because I said Thor?

#32 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8739 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: I belive venomoushatred was wrong about Thor destroyed planet with his fist,If I recall correctly the planets are destroyed because the shock between Gorr and Thor

#33 Posted by cameron83 (7290 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Hmm this is a tough one. I think I'm going to go with Marvel Now Thor. Normally I would go with Superman but New 52 Superman is not as fast or as strong or as durable or as powerful as he used to be in the Pre 52 DC. While Thor is now getting more powerful with Marvel Now. plus New 52 Superman seems even less resistant to Magic than Pre 52 Superman. This is how I always viewed Superman vs Thor

Pre Crisis

Strength: Superman

Speed: Superman

Power: Superman

Durability: Superman

Stamina: Superman

Winner: Superman

Post Crisis

Strength: Superman is slightly stronger

Speed: Superman

Power: Thor is slightly more powerful

Durability: Tie

Stamina: Tie

Winner: Tie

New 52

Strength: Thor is slightly stronger

Speed: Thor

Power: Thor

Durability: Thor

Stamina: Tie

Winner: Thor

this.

But...I still love Superman....so F*** Y'ALL!!

lol jk,still love supes,though....

#34 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5406 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel Now Thor

#35 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: Agreed He's my favourite character I love Superman. He's pretty much the only reason DC is still on my pull list. But I also love Thor. I think I have the right idea.

#36 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: i bro fisted cos you replied to the topic,

My favourite characters are thor, hulk, kyle rayner, hyperion, agent venom and starbrand.

But anyway, i have argued enough on thor's part to give him a victory, unless someone can prove otherwise by saying how supes could beat thor.

#37 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: Oh that's still good.

I have a long list of favourites. My main ones would have to be Superman Hulk and Thor.

Normally Superman would win. Definitely Pre Crisis Superman. Post Crisis Superman could beat Thor though it's mostly a tie. New 52 Superman is outmatched though. I think everyone genuinely agrees with you that Thor takes this.

#38 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: thats my short list of fav guys, i too have a large list

Those are my main guys

Yeah, i agree, pre crisis supes (sa supes i think) would only be a good fight if thor had odin force. And post crisis is debatable, but new 52 supes is outgunned and outmatched.

#39 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: Agreed. Pre Crisis kind of stomps any version of Thor except Rune King Thor. Pre Crisis is equal to Thor. and New 52 is as you said outmatched.

#40 Posted by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: And 10 gigawatts? Are you talking about that electric chair in Action Comics #2?

#41 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7583 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Edited by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: I gotta say I disagree with the "outgunned and outmatched" statement. To put things in perspective whether is fighting Gorr he's going all out as hard as he can without going WM. And supes hasn't had a fight like that where he's exhausting himself against somebody. The only two fights that are worth mentioning are his fights with H'el and Orion. He shook the planet all the way to the watchtower against H'el (and it doesn't seem like that's as hard as he can possibly punch) and he speedblitzed Thors brother, Orion and hit Orion harder than he'd ever been hit before. I'd like to revisit this thread in a few months after supes has his fights in villains month and Thor will have more feats as well. So as I said before, I think that today with the feats they've accumulated Thor would win in a hard fought battle just because we've seen what he can do when he's going all out. We have yet tosee that for Clark

#43 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Edited by homicidalmaniac (7583 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7583 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by Superskrull86 (1831 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

#48 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac: Yeah I don't get the point of this conversation then. Rune King Thor is above Pre Crisis Superman he's around the level of Superman Prime One Million. Although King Thor (From Dan Jurgens run) is equal to Pre Crisis Superman. the rest are beneath him and are more in range with Post Crisis Superman

#49 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7583 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio