Who can win in a all out fight ?
The Last Son of Krypton or the American secret Weapon?
Location - Metropolis
Rules - No BFR
Morels ?
There are none its a fight to the death.
Go
Hyperion. New-52 Superman has to little feats to make an argument, even though he lifted the weight of the Earth.
Contrary to what everyone is saying i am going for Superman.Supreme Power Hyperion isnt exactly flowing with a lot of feats himself to be fair, although it has more feats than Superman atm. Superman to me has looked stronger and just as fast (i still wanna say Superman is faster but meh!).
@XImpossibruX said:
Hyperion. New-52 Superman has to little feats to make an argument, even though he lifted the weight of the Earth.
*Too
@Killemall@Hyperlight: said:
Contrary to what everyone is saying i am going for Superman.Supreme Power Hyperion isnt exactly flowing with a lot of feats himself to be fair, although it has more feats than Superman atm. Superman to me has looked stronger and just as fast (i still wanna say Superman is faster but meh!).
I think hyperion has enough Feats >_>
Hyperion travels from Europe to Africa in seconds to catch Dr. Spectrum.
Hyperion holding back does this to earth.
That's a huge hit for making a simple statement.
Here Hyperion vs his equal in strength, durability, and Flash Vision. Red Stone.
The Fight with Dr. Specter. He shrugs off these blows with ease.
Hyperion vs the equaivalants of Blob (X-men) Nuke (who hits Hyperion with the same force as a Birthing Star) and Arcanna.
Hyperion Speed is faster than Blur. How fast is Blur?
Hes as fast as Ultimate Quicksilver. Who is just short of the speed of lightning. (Yes can provide feats of that)
Hyperion vs IW Force Field (which has tanked the Grazing shot of a Big Bang!!!) As well Human Torch vain Nova Attack. HT has been confirm to reach the Temps of our sun. Hyperion laughs it all off and Flash Vision IW FF to bits.
Hyperion Overpower Thor easy. No small feat. As a Ultimate Fan I'll debate you on it in Thor's defense.
Hyperion Durability vs 10 Daisy Cutters. Each Cutter is comparable to a Kiloton Nuke. That's 10 nukes worth of Power without the Radiation on Hyperion. He lives just fine.
Then we know from Supreme Power that Mark is comparable to his alternate verses Squadron Supreme Hyperion.
Its confirmed when Scarlet Witch brought the Squadron Supreme who are exact in power levels and powers to Supreme Verse. That makes Marks stats same as 616 Hyperions who fought Juggernaut and Gladiator!!!
So this Guy is the same level as Mark and he fought.....
Juggernaut or....
Gladiator.
Hardly feat less my friend.
What we do know is Superman may be faster and for sure slightly stronger. However this version of Hyperion is Government train and actually faces foes on his level more at the moment than Superman has.
So Younger kid vs more Experience.
@Z3RO180: Thanks man. Supreme Power is one of my Favorite reads.
Also added in the Scans for the Africa Chase scene and Planet crushing Statement.
@CadenceV2: Np dude i just finished the first volume of supreme power and i am currently waiting for volume 2 and 3. Any way im going to debate that supes would win Due to the fact his strength would be slightly greater than hyperion on the fact that he enched presed the earth for five days without sun light, so in the sun he would give hyperion a good fight in tearms of strength. Now speed is were it is debate able for supes back in JL#2 he tagged the flash so we know his reaction speed is great but he dount know if he can tag hyperion.
Superman. Stronger and faster.
@CadenceV2 said:
Hyperion Speed is faster than Blur.
This feat is technically non-canon seeing as it was an alternate future.
Hyperion Durability vs 10 Daisy Cutters. Each Cutter is comparable to a Kiloton Nuke. That's 10 nukes worth of Power without the Radiation on Hyperion. He lives just fine.
"Lives just fine?" He was badly injured by that blast and had to be healed by Zarda.
The Fight with Dr. Specter. He shrugs off these blows with ease.
Ledger was a rookie when he first fought Hyperion. He had barely any idea how to use the prism. Their second fight went considerably differently.
@CitizenBane: I don't believe it should be non canon at all. Hyperion already chase Blur thru the country side with ease in Issue 4. Also that future is merely him older. Its not really alternate, like would King Thor who went back in time stop himself from going evil is Non Cannon. All that happen and he remembers it clearly. As does Hyperion. He shows that speed again anyway in Issue 4 before the future.
Also I don't think he is faster than Lightning Speed as Ultimate Thor counter his Speed Blitz.
He was fine enough to Flash Vision Wolves. He wasn't dying either. He was injured but lived just fine. That's my point.
What is the Second fight from? I like it alot, but it cant be from the Max Imprint at all. Is this from Squadron Supreme?
Regardless the first fight I never said Dr. Spectrum was a super skilled warrior. Only Hyperion effortlessly took what he dish out and his power output (from the surrounding destruction) was alot.
@CadenceV2 said:
@CitizenBane: I don't believe it should be non canon at all. Hyperion already chase Blur thru the country side with ease in Issue 4.
.......you mean the chase where they kept pace for a while until Blur grinned at Mark and then turned and left while Hyperion crashed into a building and lost track of him?
Also that future is merely him older. Its not really alternate, like would King Thor who went back in time stop himself from going evil is Non Cannon. All that happen and he remembers it clearly. As does Hyperion. He shows that speed again anyway in Issue 4 before the future.
The feats of King Thor aren't taken into consideration for Odinforce Thor, especially since their showings are very different as far as displays of power go. Why would Hyperion be any different?
He was fine enough to Flash Vision Wolves. He wasn't dying either. He was injured but lived just fine. That's my point.
Mark disposing of animals that he could crush with his little finger regardless of his health isn't exactly definite proof that he was "fine" to me. A statement like "He lived just fine" implies he came out of the blast none the worse for wear, and that's not what happened: you can see how battered and bloodied his body is in that scan where Zarda flies him away.
What is the Second fight from? I like it alot, but it cant be from the Max Imprint at all. Is this from Squadron Supreme?
It's from the second Supreme Power series.
Regardless the first fight I never said Dr. Spectrum was a super skilled warrior. Only Hyperion effortlessly took what he dish out and his power output (from the surrounding destruction) was alot.
What Ledger could dish out back then was woefully limited. Hyperion tanking blasts from that Spectrum isn't as impressive as facing down a more experienced Ledger would be.
@CitizenBane:
.......you mean the chase where they kept pace for a while until Blur grinned at Mark and then turned and left while Hyperion crashed into a building and lost track of him?
Yes. He kept Pace with him easy and Blur comment he went outside to run as fast as he wanted to so he wasn't going slow. I think it proves Mark reaction time is slower than his Speed.
The feats of King Thor aren't taken into consideration for Odinforce Thor, especially since their showings are very different as far as displays of power go. Why would Hyperion be any different?
I simply read too many Odin Force Thor and those feats are always taken into account.
Mark disposing of animals that he could crush with his little finger regardless of his health isn't exactly definite proof that he was "fine" to me. A statement like "He lived just fine" implies he came out of the blast none the worse for wear, and that's not what happened: you can see how battered and bloodied his body is in that scan where Zarda flies him away.
Well I meant he lived just fine as in he wasn't dying and needed no help to recover in time. Zarda merely speed up the process. Would he be able to continue against a Platoon of soilders? I believe he could defend himself. Not against any Super Powered Baddies but Street Levelers were still no threat. Anyway Im rambling on...
It's from the second Supreme Power series.
I saw the Graphic Novel but wasn't sure if there was any action in it. Now I see it looks good.
What Ledger could dish out back then was woefully limited. Hyperion tanking blasts from that Spectrum isn't as impressive as facing down a more experienced Ledger would be.
Im glad to see Dr. S get some love. I always liked him 3rd best. Next to Nuke.
@CadenceV2 said:
@CitizenBane:
.......you mean the chase where they kept pace for a while until Blur grinned at Mark and then turned and left while Hyperion crashed into a building and lost track of him?
Yes. He kept Pace with him easy and Blur comment he went outside to run as fast as he wanted to so he wasn't going slow. I think it proves Mark reaction time is slower than his Speed.
Blur's remark was basically to the effect that he loved running and being cooped up at home all day bugged him, so he liked to stretch his legs whenever he got the chance. It doesn't mean he was running as fast as he possibly could. Additionally, Blur has blitzing feats like the one where he hits Ben Grimm about a dozen times before he can react while running circles around him ---- Hyperion doesn't have any feats like that. His blitzes are usually just charging at an opponent.
I simply read too many Odin Force Thor and those feats are always taken into account.
Odinforce Thor was underwhelming in comparison to King Thor, consequently it's argued that whatever knowledge Thor retained from the whole Reigning saga clearly didn't make much of a difference in the long run.
Well I meant he lived just fine as in he wasn't dying and needed no help to recover in time. Zarda merely speed up the process.
Based on what? He was sprawled on the floor when Zarda found him, and recovery was clearly not happening.
@CitizenBane: More evidence that Marks Reaction Speed is Mutiple Machs but nowhere near Blurs reaction time.
I also seen Superman needing time to recover. Mark had no time to recover but again he wasn't dying at all. He was badly Injured. Also the Scans you posted of Hyperion being beaten by Spectrum showed him also in clear bad shape but he recovered from that as well. I don't see Zarda needed to heal him. anyway there is no evidence either that he couldn't be considered worse for wear and not dying.
Interpretation I guess.
Anyway I said earlier that Supes should beat Mark out in Speed and Strength. That should pull the win.
@CadenceV2 said:
@CitizenBane: More evidence that Marks Reaction Speed is Mutiple Machs but nowhere near Blurs reaction time.
I also seen Superman needing time to recover. Mark had no time to recover but again he wasn't dying at all. He was badly Injured. Also the Scans you posted of Hyperion being beaten by Spectrum showed him also in clear bad shape but he recovered from that as well. I don't see Zarda needed to heal him. anyway there is no evidence either that he couldn't be considered worse for wear and not dying.
Interpretation I guess.
Anyway I said earlier that Supes should beat Mark out in Speed and Strength. That should pull the win.
From a nuke? Post-Flashpoint, I haven't seen anything like that. Pre-Flashpoint, Superman's tanked attacks far more damaging than the one that had Hyperion battered and bleeding, but for the purposes of this thead that's irrelevant. He may not have been dying, but seeing as he could barely stand hours after the blast, his recovery process wasn't any great shakes. He recovered from the second fight with Spectrum while in prison over an unspecified period of time. Zarda needed to heal him because he was still a physical wreck hours after sustaining damage.
@CitizenBane: If you re read the scans it was 10-20 Nuke Equivalents. Not 1. I beat Supes be in bad shape too from 10 wrapped in one blast.
Considering the General always overdid everything Im betting he did 20 Daisy Cutters. He wouldnt risk it at all so thats a VERY Impressive Feat of Durability.
The feats of King Thor aren't taken into consideration for Odinforce Thor, especially since their showings are very different as far as displays of power go. Why would Hyperion be any different?
If it is said that Thor is out of morals/bloodlusted they counts, since they are the same person and OF Thor has all King Thor's memories. These memories were mentioned in Ragnarok when some boy died and Thor was talking about Magni (his son from King Thor's times).Odinforce Thor was underwhelming in comparison to King Thor, consequently it's argued that whatever knowledge Thor retained from the whole Reigning saga clearly didn't make much of a difference in the long run.
@czarny_samael666: Same with Hyperion in that Regard as he remembered his Future Self and plans. The Feat of outright catching Blur should be valid.
@CadenceV2 said:
@CitizenBane: If you re read the scans it was 10-20 Nuke Equivalents. Not 1. I beat Supes be in bad shape too from 10 wrapped in one blast.
I've done a calculation for this. It was a chain bomb with around twenty warheads, each warhead being equivalent to a one kiloton atomic burst. Hiroshima was a 13 kiloton atomic explosion, so this bomb was around 50% more devastating than the one dropped on Hiroshima, give or take. So Mark tanked a nuclear bomb that was about 50% more devastating than Hiroshima. And that's assuming the General overdid the warheads. If he didn't, then the combined destructive effect of this bomb would be about 10 kilotons, making it weaker than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. I've seen Superman withstand a hundred thousand simultaneous nuclear explosions at ground zero pre-Flashpoint, so I doubt this would faze him.
@CitizenBane: If I remember right Hiroshima was 13 kilotons but the blast was more around 5 Kilotons of use. Because the first Atomic Bomb couldn't use all the mass at all. It only use a little thus why they had to overstuff it.
I will do research Tommorow but I remember from BCR Training that only Modern Nukes use 90% of the Mass inside vs the first Atomic weapons that use 30-40%.
Anyway when has New 52 Supes Tank anything close to one nuke? That's the question here in Durability. I seen Superman move multiple Planets Chain together once upon a time but now n days that's irrelevant.
@CitizenBane: This is from wikia (thus not to be taken as absolute truth) but I remember as much from BCR Training. It contained 64 kg (140 lb) of uranium, of which less than a kilogram underwent nuclear fission, and of this mass only 0.6 g (0.021 oz) was transformed into a different type of energy (initially kinetic energy, then heat and light).
I know a 13 Kiloton Modern Day is alot more output than 13 Kilotons from Hiroshima.
Edit:
from Chemcases.com
To prevent spontaneous detonation of an atomic bomb, the fissile material is kept in a subcritical configuration. It is then rapidly assembled into a supercritical mass using conventional explosives. Once the bomb has achieved this mass, any neutron introduced into it will be likely to initiate a chain reaction. The mechanism for "Little Boy", the U-235 bomb, was a gun that fired one subcritical piece of U-235 into another to form a supercritical mass (Figure 2). The pieces had to be assembled within a time less than the average time between appearances of spontaneous neutrons from either U-235 or cosmic radiation. A conventional explosive in an artillery barrel could fire the U-235 mass at speeds of a few millimeters per second, fast enough to prevent a fizzle caused by a spontaneous neutron setting off a premature chain reaction.
Originally, the gun-type mechanism was planned for both the U-235 and Pu-239 weapons. However, a problem arose with the Pu-239 bomb that required a different assembly mechanism because of the small amount of Pu-240 that is produced with the Pu-239 in the reactor.
Pu-240 emits large numbers of neutrons spontaneously: 1,030 neutrons per gram per second compared with 0.0004 neutrons per gram per second for U-235. Even at a concentration of 1% Pu-240 in the fissile Pu-239, the required mass of Pu emits 52,000 neutrons per second or one neutron every 20 microseconds. Thus, it is very probable that a neutron from Pu-240 will initiate a premature chain reaction during the critical last 100 microseconds of the critical mass in a gun-type assembly. This problem was discovered in mid 1944, well after the start of construction of the massive Hanford plutonium production facilities.
Im not going to begin to fully understand why and how but know that sum up Hiroshima used very little of the Kilotons of Material that went in it.
@CadenceV2 said:
@CitizenBane: This is from wikia (thus not to be taken as absolute truth) but I remember as much from BCR Training. It contained 64 kg (140 lb) of uranium, of which less than a kilogram underwent nuclear fission, and of this mass only 0.6 g (0.021 oz) was transformed into a different type of energy (initially kinetic energy, then heat and light).
I know a 13 Kiloton Modern Day is alot more output than 13 Kilotons from Hiroshima.
Alright.
@CitizenBane said:
@CadenceV2: In Superman #13 he traveled to the sun to recharge his strength, and the heat, pressure and radiation emitted by the sun is vastly more powerful than any nuke created by man.
Isnt that kind of pointless how much power the sun is when its the very source of his powers and OPs him? Its hitting hard with pressure per square inch but at the same time making him much much stronger at a accelerated pace. Instant Heal, x20 in Strength and Durability, ect ect. Now Superman being hit with same Pressure Per Square Inch without the benefits of Auto Healing and added Durability is another thing.
This feat alone also shows Hyperion surviving the Heart of a Birthing Star (as per the Smartest Man on Earth). Without a auto healing and added durability from Sun Rays. It merely knocks the wind out of him.
@CadenceV2: Superman wasn't even fully recharged when he left the sun, so even at about 80-90% of his maximum capacity he was still tanking all that pressure and radiation. Yes, being in the sun would cause his power to steadily rise, but since it never exceeded 100% (he stated that he didn't have time to recharge fully since he needed to get back to his job) it doesn't put the feat beyond what he'd be able to do away from the sun on, say, Mars. His durability hadn't crossed his usual threshold.
That's not Hyperion resisting the pressure of a star's birth. Burbank was using an analogy. Calling something "the next best thing to being caught in the heart of a star at the moment of its birth" isn't to be taken literally. It's a commonly used phrase, Bell Labs used to have an ad that read "Long-distance (telephone calls) is the next best thing to being there". They don't actually mean that a long-distance call and being somewhere else on the planet are equitable.
@Z3RO180 said:
@CadenceV2 was that 616 Hyperion that got owned by jugs ?
Yeah, and a depowered one at that.
Right now i give it to hyperion, but like any other superman, he'll gain feats from writer trying to one up one another
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