So, I made this thread a few months ago pitting new 52 supes vs marvel heroes...which due to the recent developments has turned into a kinda stomp. Keeping that in mind, let's see how the new Supes fares against myth heroes and villains from the pages of comic books so....
As the previous thread, New 52 Superman is bloodlusted. As soon as supes clears a round, he gets fully rested. Every combatant is in character HOWEVER, they are fighting to the best of their abilities and possess their standard gear.
LOL you though using Mikaboshi against Superman would be fair :p
I really wanna see anyone who honestly believe Superman could take Mikaboshi (current version). ;)
Stops at Thor due to lack of reaction speed thereby gaining no real advantage over him. Also Superman 13 one instance, that directly contradicts pretty much every showing from Superman thus far, becomes a little hard to swallow. But DC writers have given him the feat so cant argue.
So, I made this thread a few months ago pitting new 52 supes vs marvel heroes...which due to the recent developments has turned into a kinda stomp. Keeping that in mind, let's see how the new Supes fares against myth heroes and villains from the pages of comic books so....
As the previous thread, New 52 Superman is bloodlusted. As soon as supes clears a round, he gets fully rested. Every combatant is in character HOWEVER, they are fighting to the best of their abilities and possess their standard gear.
ROUND 1
Marvel Ares
ROUND 2
The Warriors Three
ROUND 3
New 52 Wonder Woman
ROUND 4
Thor
ROUND 5
Hercules
ROUND 6
Zeus (Marvel)
ROUND 7
Odin
ROUND 8
Mikaboshi
ROUND 9
Cthulhu
Zeus beats Kent as badly as he did Banner. Odin blinks and wipes him from existence. Mikaboshi devours him. Cthulhu drives him insane or summons Azathoth on top of him.
LOL you though using Mikaboshi against Superman would be fair :p
I really wanna see anyone who honestly believe Superman could take Mikaboshi (current version). ;)
Stops at Thor due to lack of reaction speed thereby gaining no real advantage over him. Also Superman 13 one instance, that directly contradicts pretty much every showing from Superman thus far, becomes a little hard to swallow. But DC writers have given him the feat so cant argue.
#18
Edited by drgnx
(2749 posts)
- 7 months, 15 days ago
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Superman is still somewhat developing, shouldn't get past 5 or 6 but 9 is just wrong, plain wrong :)
Only thing Superman has on Thor right now is one strength feat and some speed, but not really durability, so he could stop at 4 still.
@Killemall said:
Also Superman 13 one instance, that directly contradicts pretty much every showing from Superman thus far, becomes a little hard to swallow. But DC writers have given him the feat so cant argue.
Thor's strength feats are quite comparable. Plus New-52 Superman's durability and speed do not exceed Thor's.
Here, Thor and Red Norvell's battle makes Asgard itself tremble, and Heimdall is having a ear-attack from space.
Taking down Void-Sentry(I don't think New-52 Superman can do this)
Lifts the Midgard Serpent.....twice.
Thor is also capable of consistently fighting opponents such as the Silver Surfer, and has even had the strength to greatly harm a weakened Galactus.
The Marvel official site states the following about Thor's strength-level.
"Thor possesses vast physical strength, to which the exact limit is unknown, but he is able to lift far in excess of 100 tons effortlessly. He has shown enough strength to move and lift objects that are as heavy as the Earth and shatter entire planets with his blows. Thor is physically one of the strongest beings to ever walk the Earth and one of the most physically powerful beings in the Universe."
So while Superman #13 greatly increased Supe's power......he's not ready for Thor.
#24
Edited by drgnx
(2749 posts)
- 7 months, 15 days ago
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@Sufferthorn said:
Thor's strength feats are quite comparable. Plus New-52 Superman's durability and speed do not exceed Thor's.
Punching power does not directly equal strength, and how do you quantify this? Yes both can throw earth shattering punches, but that wasn't my point.
@drgnx:
@XImpossibruX:
Here, Thor and Red Norvell's battle makes Asgard itself tremble, and Heimdall is having a ear-attack from space.
Taking down Void-Sentry(I don't think New-52 Superman can do this)
What do these actually prove about his strength? Thor is using his hammer here, which has magic...
Lifts the Midgard Serpent.....twice.
Thor is also capable of consistently fighting opponents such as the Silver Surfer, and has even had the strength to greatly harm a weakened Galactus.
Actually the serpent scan is horribly bad, Pick any random snake where you can find its size and weight, then compare it to the serpent (which was able to wrap itself around earth about 2 times) making it about 2 X (40,075) km so about 80,150 km long.So find the size-height ration of normal snake and use it to estimate this serpents size and you will see it really does not count as much of a feat. My calculations put it in the millions of tons, and even hulk has a better feat than that (lifting billions on his back).
The Marvel official site states the following about Thor's strength-level.
"Thor possesses vast physical strength, to which the exact limit is unknown, but he is able to lift far in excess of 100 tons effortlessly. He has shown enough strength to move and lift objects that are as heavy as the Earth and shatter entire planets with his blows. Thor is physically one of the strongest beings to ever walk the Earth and one of the most physically powerful beings in the Universe."
If it is user editable, like this one, its not overly reliable..and it is not official just because the site is
So while Superman #13 greatly increased Supe's power......he's not ready for Thor.
There isn't enough feats to go all out making a case for Superman to beat Thor yet, but your scans are questionable in terms of strength, especially the serpent.
@drgnx: And the weird part was, after the awesome feat, he struggled with a dragon.
As far as the story goes, that particular feat served little purpose. IT honestly looked like writers going, here Superman take a big feat you seem to be losing on every battle board.
For now, everytime a new 52 Superman is mentioned that feat will always come up.
I don't trust your incredibly talented math-skills. But i'll be moving along now.
*moves along*
Also isnt Thor vs Red Novell from Thor Mythos? That would make it non-canon, although not entirely sure because i do not have the feat saved and read it about a year ago. Would you happen to have a issue number to i could tell if its canon or not.
LOL, I just think you're pulling a number out of your butt.
@Killemall:
Even if it were to be non-canon(which i don't think it is....could be wrong though). We both know that Thor has better feats than that. He has canonically shattered planets and created bigger shockwaves and lifted extremely heavy objects of absolutely preposterous size.
Having blows to shatter planets automaticly puts him up with New-52 Superman.....along with obviously having more extensive feats makes him more powerful.
The thing is though.....with Superman #13, every sad Superman-fan is geeking out and pretending like Superheroes have never destroyed/lifted planets before(eye-roll)
Even if it were to be non-canon(which i don't think it is....could be wrong though). We both know that Thor has better feats than that. He has canonically shattered planets and created bigger shockwaves and lifted extremely heavy objects of absolutely preposterous size.
While he does have better feat , the shattering planet however is extremely questionable. The only instance he has shattered an un-named planet while fighting BRB would be during Thor: Blood and Thunder, more specifically Thor Volume 1, 468 (page no 20/21), where we are still not sure if he was under warrior madness. While Odin though warrior madness was incurable (clearly refuted by latter instance The Mighty Thor Vol 1 489 ) his feats on the series dont really add up to what Thor normally performs, and few bios (one that i have is Thanos Source Book) clearly state he was under warrior madness.
Having blows to shatter planets automaticly puts him up with New-52 Superman.....along with obviously having more extensive feats makes him more powerful.
That blowing part i do not agree with, because of the whole Warrior Madness thingy, i personally think Thor would beat New 52 Superman, something i stated earlier. The reason would be Superman durability is a little questionable. We have seen 5 instance of Superman bleed with but 1 strike including a strike from Batman (LOL), Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel and Cheetah (was more of a bite than a punch), which certainly shows he is not as durable as one would imagine.
The thing is though.....with Superman #13, every sad Superman-fan is geeking out and pretending like Superheroes have never destroyed/lifted planets before(eye-roll)
The biggest problem i have with Superman 13 is, it directly contradicts everything we have read thus far. Superman struggling against a Dinosaurs who by no means would be on the same level as earth, or struggle with a grip from a dragon. Every superman issue before 13 contradicts this, and even in 13 after the said feat, he doesnt look anywhere close to that strong.
LOL you though using Mikaboshi against Superman would be fair :p
I really wanna see anyone who honestly believe Superman could take Mikaboshi (current version). ;)
Stops at Thor due to lack of reaction speed thereby gaining no real advantage over him. Also Superman 13 one instance, that directly contradicts pretty much every showing from Superman thus far, becomes a little hard to swallow. But DC writers have given him the feat so cant argue.
He hit Flash with no real effort. When you think about it, that would have taken amazing reaction speed.
He hit Flash with no real effort. When you think about it, that would have taken amazing reaction speed.
Its really hard to know what speed flash was going at. Also in a later Justice League arc, Flash has to carry him to prevent him from getting whacked by Omega Beam, and superman still failed to avoid it. Also one or two instance, there has been Thor hitting people moving extremely fast, its just that he constantly have been shown to be quite slow, and Superman is yet to really blitz anyone or show a quantifiable reaction time. I think i will wait for a good feat from Superman before i put him faster than Thor although i am quite sure it would come soon.
@drgnx: And the weird part was, after the awesome feat, he struggled with a dragon.
As far as the story goes, that particular feat served little purpose. IT honestly looked like writers going, here Superman take a big feat you seem to be losing on every battle board.
For now, everytime a new 52 Superman is mentioned that feat will always come up.
Granted that was a Kryptonian dragon that supposedly hits as hard as Helspont and we know more then one type of Kryptonian species gets amped from coming to Earth.
Granted that was a Kryptonian dragon that supposedly hits as hard as Helspont and we know more then one type of Kryptonian species gets amped from coming to Earth.
I am a little lost here, so you are telling me a Kryptonian dragon has a grip, that's too strong for a guy who has lifted weight equivalent of Earth for 5 days straight, after he shortly went very close to the sun before this fight?
Take most of his fighting feat before the said issue, or after the said feat, and its clear the feat directly contradicts everything he has done thus far.
I dont think we should totally take the feat away, but you have to take this with little care.
Also where is that underlined part coming from, the only thing that would remotely suggest that would be "Never been hit like that", not including Hellspont backhand clearly knocked him out, for an extended time, while this did not o_O
Granted that was a Kryptonian dragon that supposedly hits as hard as Helspont and we know more then one type of Kryptonian species gets amped from coming to Earth.
I am a little lost here, so you are telling me a Kryptonian dragon has a grip, that's too strong for a guy who has lifted weight equivalent of Earth for 5 days straight, after he shortly went very close to the sun before this fight?
Take most of his fighting feat before the said issue, or after the said feat, and its clear the feat directly contradicts everything he has done thus far.
I dont think we should totally take the feat away, but you have to take this with little care.
Also where is that underlined part coming from, the only thing that would remotely suggest that would be "Never been hit like that", not including Hellspont backhand clearly knocked him out, for an extended time, while this did not o_O
I'm saying it was a Kryptonian dragon and as such would be more then a normal dragon because you would assume it was being powered extra by the sun so shouldn't be dismissed as nothing special. I mean if the dragon also came from Krypton and was super charged like the the people and other animals. It would make sense that it would be far stronger then Superman.
Also as far as I read it he didn't get to charge himself fully in the sun because he had a life to get back to. I spoke nothing about the other feet. I try not to because like the learning how to operate on Lois in the matter of seconds I find it a stupid Silver age feet and work hard to ignore those. If you do count it as my explanation for it's strength it should be able to do the same and logically even more. That is makking assumptions on how much power it gets from the sun. Truthfully you can't down play the dragon as just another dragon at all that much because we don't know how strong Kryptonian dragons normally are. other then stronger then normal because of Kryptons greater gravity but like I said it's alot of assumptions either way.
It would make sense that the dragon would be stronger that Supes. Assuming that even without yellow sunlight, back on Krypton that dragon would be stronger than him, then it makes sense that under yellow sunlight it is going to be stronger than him again.
@Killemall: I get what you're saying. The feat is good but there's reasonable doubt. Makes sense.
And the Dragon fight, I believe Supes was weakened from the previous feat (which will undoubtedly be mentioned everyday for years).
Totally agree with the first part.
Although to be clear, he wasnt weakened for the fight with Kyrptonian dragon, because he clearly flew right up to the sun 6 pages before the fight.
It's not really clear. You see it one way but from reading the text I read it another. When he says "I'd like to hang out here, just sorta storing up any energy I lost over the past few days...." I read it as he couldn't stay there long enough to get all the energy back.
He hit Flash with no real effort. When you think about it, that would have taken amazing reaction speed.
Its really hard to know what speed flash was going at. Also in a later Justice League arc, Flash has to carry him to prevent him from getting whacked by Omega Beam, and superman still failed to avoid it. Also one or two instance, there has been Thor hitting people moving extremely fast, its just that he constantly have been shown to be quite slow, and Superman is yet to really blitz anyone or show a quantifiable reaction time. I think i will wait for a good feat from Superman before i put him faster than Thor although i am quite sure it would come soon.
When was this? I recall Flash helping Superman up and they both try to escape the OB Flash running and Superman flying. Superman lasted just as long as Flash while keeping up with Flash yes Superman got tagged but unlike Flash who was sweating he didn't have a demon to be his shield.
It's not really clear. You see it one way but from reading the text I read it another. When he says "I'd like to hang out here, just sorta storing up any energy I lost over the past few days...." I read it as he couldn't stay there long enough to get all the energy back. Double PM had to make a small correction.
Ok how is it not clear, the guys gets enough strength boost to beat Darkseid just being next to the sun (Superman/ Batman 13).
Once he flies close to the sun its clear he gets his boost back up, a prolongued exposure makes him extremely sundipped and the level he was in Our World At War.
No Problem about the correct, edit away as many time as you want.
As per the dragon instance, the point was trying to make is that feat contradicts his lifting Earth for 5 days straight , because at that strenght level, he should have been a lot stronger than a Dragon that just appeared on earth.
@Immortal777 said:
When was this? I recall Flash helping Superman up and they both try to escape the OB Flash running and Superman flying. Superman lasted just as long as Flash while keeping up with Flash yes Superman got tagged but unlike Flash who was sweating he didn't have a demon to be his shield.
I believe we are talking about the same instance, and the instance i was referring to was this:
I said nothing about Flash escaping the beam, but Superman unable to outrace the beam (something he has done in pre flashpoint, has even matched the beam with his vision, and tanked the same beam without getting knocked out) shows he is neither as far nor as strong as his pre-flashpoint counterpart. Also unlike flash he neither shown a femptosecond reaction time, nor has he physically run FTL, so tagging Flash itself becomes less worthy as a feat, as later feats clearly puts flash much faster than Superman.
@Killemall: I wasn't trying to debate who is faster than who it's pretty clear like it's always been that Flash is faster just didn't like the part about Flash carrying Superman when he didn't carry him. I agree that new 52 Superman besides strength (which I have no idea why people bring up SA I don't wanna remember that time I prefer to see it closer to BA or Majestic lvl) all of his other stats aren't on the same lvl as pre 52 yet. New 52 Superman speed wise may not be pre 52 lvl but do you really think that 1-5 on this list could actually tag him with them not even having any type of speed feats to speak of besides thor's decades old ones?
It's not really clear. You see it one way but from reading the text I read it another. When he says "I'd like to hang out here, just sorta storing up any energy I lost over the past few days...." I read it as he couldn't stay there long enough to get all the energy back. Double PM had to make a small correction.
Ok how is it not clear, the guys gets enough strength boost to beat Darkseid just being next to the sun (Superman/ Batman 13).
Once he flies close to the sun its clear he gets his boost back up, a prolongued exposure makes him extremely sundipped and the level he was in Our World At War.
No Problem about the correct, edit away as many time as you want.
As per the dragon instance, the point was trying to make is that feat contradicts his lifting Earth for 5 days straight , because at that strenght level, he should have been a lot stronger than a Dragon that just appeared on earth.
@Immortal777 said:
When was this? I recall Flash helping Superman up and they both try to escape the OB Flash running and Superman flying. Superman lasted just as long as Flash while keeping up with Flash yes Superman got tagged but unlike Flash who was sweating he didn't have a demon to be his shield.
I believe we are talking about the same instance, and the instance i was referring to was this:
I said nothing about Flash escaping the beam, but Superman unable to outrace the beam (something he has done in pre flashpoint, has even matched the beam with his vision, and tanked the same beam without getting knocked out) shows he is neither as far nor as strong as his pre-flashpoint counterpart. Also unlike flash he neither shown a femptosecond reaction time, nor has he physically run FTL, so tagging Flash itself becomes less worthy as a feat, as later feats clearly puts flash much faster than Superman.
That scan is not old DC. It's the new 52 so the reference you made to Darkseid and Superman/Batman 13 can't be applied here because there is a lot of things that are different now. It appears like they are establishing at this time that it take far longer for Superman to absorb energy then he was able to do so in pre 52. Something that could be supported by the fact that Supergirl spent an unknown amount of time revolving around the sun herself and isn't far stronger then Superman. Meaning there will be no quick sun dips to full power for Superman any longer after being hurt and if he wants to become stronger then he normally is he should better hope he has the time because he might be there for awhile. You can argue that the time he needed to gain back his powers wasn't really specified but the time he did spent wasn't enough according to his dialogue. Well that's the way I read it that is. Further supported (I cant say it's a fact) IIRC later on in the book he wonders to himself if he is having problems because of the exhaustion.
On your point that you were trying to make I get that but we don't know where it came from. I suspect it came from H'ell how seems to have been watching the Super-family for awhile now and was keeping it somewhere to manipulate Supergirl into thinking Superman is a liar. I further suspect that the dragon was grown unnaturally because Superman detecting something wrong with his DNA. (Maybe a clone) because originally H'ell was meant to be Bizzaro before they changed their minds became far to different. We also don't know if Dragons even absorb energy at the same rate as the people of Krypton.
#48
Edited by drgnx
(2749 posts)
- 7 months, 15 days ago
- Show Bio
@Sufferthorn said:
@drgnx:
LOL, I just think you're pulling a number out of your butt.
Not really, Ive purposely given a vague number and instead asked you to calculate it yourself, so the only only one talking s**t is you since I find it funny that "you" posted the feat, but say "[i'm"]pulling number out of [my] butt" when I've not given any numbers but have encourage "you" to "define" "your" "feat". And considering you've tried to quote a wiki as official, I'm not putting a lot of stock in what you "think" ...
By the way, I though "[you] were moving along", or did you get lost along the way?
So you DID pull it out of your butt. But hey dude, don't get angry on my account. You're only on a website arguing with people on the internet.
Maybe you think i'm wasting your time? But clearly...you have plenty of time to waste.
Look....if you can't accept that pulling away The Giant Serpent of Asgard that can coil around the earth and possibly destroy it is an impressive strength-feat. Then feel free to have your own opinions man.
But getting angry and having a little rage-attack and being absolutely rude and insultive, simply because you think i'm wrong? That's not gonna get you anything. At all. It's not gonna make me mad...it's not gonna make me have a hard time sleeping at night.
So what does this whole thing achieve? I'm asking you. :P
#50
Edited by drgnx
(2749 posts)
- 7 months, 15 days ago
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@Killemall said:
@Pokeysteve said:
@Killemall: I get what you're saying. The feat is good but there's reasonable doubt. Makes sense.
And the Dragon fight, I believe Supes was weakened from the previous feat (which will undoubtedly be mentioned everyday for years).
Totally agree with the first part.
Although to be clear, he wasnt weakened for the fight with Kyrptonian dragon, because he clearly flew right up to the sun 6 pages before the fight.
Well in the scan he clearly indicates he has not fully soaked up all his energy that he used.
Here is the what he says
"I'd like to hang out and just sorta storing up any energy I lost over the past few days --" "-- but someone has to pay my rent."
Its a hard call to decide how not being fully charge effected him or how much he managed to recharge at this point.
That being said;
We don't know how strong the dragon was
Superman has been getting stronger so it make sense why he could do this now but not before
I'm pretty sure that if this proves to be inconsistent, this would not be the first inconsistency in comic book history, that was still referenced as a feat, but we would certainly need more issues before we make that call.
@Killemall said:
@Dernman said:
It's not really clear. You see it one way but from reading the text I read it another. When he says "I'd like to hang out here, just sorta storing up any energy I lost over the past few days...." I read it as he couldn't stay there long enough to get all the energy back. Double PM had to make a small correction.
Ok how is it not clear, the guys gets enough strength boost to beat Darkseid just being next to the sun (Superman/ Batman 13).
Once he flies close to the sun its clear he gets his boost back up, a prolongued exposure makes him extremely sundipped and the level he was in Our World At War.
No Problem about the correct, edit away as many time as you want.
As per the dragon instance, the point was trying to make is that feat contradicts his lifting Earth for 5 days straight , because at that strenght level, he should have been a lot stronger than a Dragon that just appeared on earth.
@Immortal777 said:
When was this? I recall Flash helping Superman up and they both try to escape the OB Flash running and Superman flying. Superman lasted just as long as Flash while keeping up with Flash yes Superman got tagged but unlike Flash who was sweating he didn't have a demon to be his shield.
I believe we are talking about the same instance, and the instance i was referring to was this:
I said nothing about Flash escaping the beam, but Superman unable to outrace the beam (something he has done in pre flashpoint, has even matched the beam with his vision, and tanked the same beam without getting knocked out) shows he is neither as far nor as strong as his pre-flashpoint counterpart. Also unlike flash he neither shown a femptosecond reaction time, nor has he physically run FTL, so tagging Flash itself becomes less worthy as a feat, as later feats clearly puts flash much faster than Superman.
Just a few minor points;
Don't confuse durability and strength, him not tanking the OB is durability, not strength.
Also the OB could be stronger and faster than pre-52. Darksied has not yet been tested, not to play devil's advocate but be careful when using relativity. Darksied seemed more menacing post-flashpoint and the assumption seems to be because everyone is weaker, but it also be that he is (also) stronger. The train feat was a good indication of lower durability in AC first months for Superman, but since then, there is a lot of unknown as to power levels. I'd personally have stuck with the "lack of feats" argument than this grey area.
That being said, I love this scan, flash helping Superman puts a smile on my face ... yah, for teamwork
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