·Both of them have their current upgrades or whatever they been doing
·They are fighting in Metropolis and causing all types of hell
·They are bloodlusted
·Morals are off
·Fight to the death
New 52 Shazam vs New 52 Wonder Woman
Shazam
He has the speed and strength advantage. Wonder Woman has the skill edge but it has yet to make much of a difference in their altercations. IIRC, the three times they've fought or had a power struggle, Shazam has come out on top every time but once, and that only time he lost, he was weakened due to the Amazo Virus.
Considering that both are bloodlusted, the closest representation of this stipulation took place in Trinity War, Justice League Dark #23 and Shazam easily disarmed the enraged Wonder Woman of her sword and knocked her away. And unlike the Justice League #39 instance where Shazam was infected by the Amazo virus, Pandora's Box was never stated to have weakened her in any way, only remove her morals.
@revivalmh said:
@unbreakable_fs4: I didn't mean to imply that she was not aware of his presence. Just that he rushed her, grabbed her arms while surprised, then shoved her away after grabbing the box. It wasn't much of a fight.
Indeed, it wasn't much of a fight but that does not change the fact that it was a physical altercation nonetheless. You can't suggest that she was surprised in any way because prior to her tussling with Shazam, she was fighting and stomping everyone in the vicinity until Shazam showed up. Context dictates that she would be well aware of what was to happen next after Shazam showed up.
@klaus said:
@unbreakable_fs4: The instant where Shazam tackled Diana and threw her doesn't prove anything as we didn't see her try to fight back, and she wasn't acting normally. The Amazo virus fight showed Diana as the victor. It was stated on panel that the virus allowed the Leagues powers to return, but it just wasn't as good at using them, so while the infected Shazam may not have used any spells, its strength and speed were at full power when Diana overpowered him.
There is also another altercation you've missed. In Batman and Robin when Batman had boomed tubed away, Shazam went after him, however Diana was faster, as Shazam flew up, Diana grabbed her lasso, caught him by the leg mid-flight and slammed him down to the ground, all the while never moving from her spot. She's overpowered him twice, and she has better feats all round. She stomps.
Sorry but that makes little sense. It did say their powers were slowly returning but just as you yourself said, the virus was not as good using their powers as they usually would. Captain Cold stressed this right after he hit flash with his gun, saying that he's never hit Flash so directly like that before. It would be the equivalent of Superman always having his strength and speed but until he can fully control himself and is well attuned to his body and capabilities, he wouldn't be able to use to correct level of strength when fighting with normal people or people much weaker than him. We saw this from Shazam when he first got his powers, he was just as strong as he later was but his earlier self had trouble controlling himself.
What issue did the Batman and Robin instance take place in?
The only thing that comes to mind between Shazam and Diana in regards to speed was when they raced to the Satellite and Shazam beat her there, proving he is faster in Batman and Robin #34.
To comply with the three scan rule, I won't post the whole scene but the last three pages
Gallery
To suggest she stomps, is disregarding evidence and a gross underestimation of Shazam's capabilities.
The virus allowed their powers to return, though it wasn't as good at using them, that means it wouldn't know how to effectively operate everyones powers, however their strength isn't something the virus needed to know how to control. And don't forget that she overpowered Amazo, who had copied Supermans powers
Not sure why you're still attempting to argue against on panel statements. The reason it was stated in the first place was to show us that the infected were not performing to their usual capacity. Plain and simple. There's nothing to analyze or interpret there.
Also, just because Patient Zero copied Clark's powers does not mean he is as physically strong as him. Besides the only powers the virus was shown copying from Supes was flight and heat vision. Nothing was mentioned about it copying his super strength.
Sorry the issue I was thinking of where Diana slammed someone down was Supergirl. However she did stop Shazam from flying off with her lasso in Batman & Robin 33. She stopped him but didn't slam him.
Not sure how this is much of a feat to be honest with you. Diana lassoing an unsuspecting Shazam's ankle while he's barely 15 feet off the ground does not signify a speed feat for Diana, and neither does it somehow prove that she has "overpowered" him or is faster than him. In fact, the panels heavily imply that Shazam stopped his flight after getting pulled by Diana and came down on his own, which is why we see him undoing the lasso's knot on his leg.
Gallery
Let me correct you on the "race" between WW and Shazam. The ONLY one racing to the tower was Shazam. The scanned also showed them arriving there at the exact same time. Not only that, but the only one who thought Shazam beat her there was Shazam himself. When he claimed he beat her there, both her and Lex looked at him like he was an idiot. So what the scan actually shows is them arriving at the same time. The only thing is that Diana was wearing her bracelets. This means that, since the scan proves their travel speed was equal while she had them on, she's becomes faster them him if she takes it off. And the reason I say she stomps him is because of all of their individual feats in every area, including tussling with other characters has Diana as the superior person.
Wrong.
Aquaman was suspicious of the reason Lex dropped their conversation mid-sentence and ran off, so he instructed Diana and Billy to get there. The urgency in his statement obviously meant he intended them to get there quickly. And if you look at the monitor, you can see that Diana left at the exact same time as Shazam, so there goes your notion that Diana was not in a hurry to get to the watchtower.
Nothing indicated who got there first other than the statement by Shazam. Regardless of your attempt to undermine the final results, that does not change the simple fact that Shazam did in fact arrive there earlier.
The bracelet argument is a poor one. You speak as though she removes them constantly. For the argument to even work, you'd have to somehow prove that she gets faster without the bracelets. The three times they were removed, they gave no indication of an increase in speed, just strength, and a decrease in morals.
@unbreakable_fs4 said:
Not sure why you're still attempting to argue against on panel statements. The reason it was stated in the first place was to show us that the infected were not performing to their usual capacity. Plain and simple. There's nothing to analyze or interpret there.
What you aren't getting is that whether or not the virus knows how to use the League's powers as well as the actual members themselves is irrelevant when it comes to powers such as strength which doesn't require any knowledge to use. The only time someone like Superman has ever been shown to need to learn how to control their ability is when they are trying to do just that, control it so they don't kill everyone they touch.
Also, just because Patient Zero copied Clark's powers does not mean he is as physically strong as him. Besides the only powers the virus was shown copying from Supes was flight and heat vision. Nothing was mentioned about it copying his super strength.
Patient Zero already fought Superman and showed he could match him in strength. And PZs body was duplicating Supermans powers organically as Batman stated. Also when Batman was telling Superman that Amazo was copying his powers, Superman said "he's fast too".
Not sure how this is much of a feat to be honest with you. Diana lassoing an unsuspecting Shazam's ankle while he's barely 15 feet off the ground does not signify a speed feat for Diana, and neither does it somehow prove that she has "overpowered" him or is faster than him. In fact, the panels heavily imply that Shazam stopped his flight after getting pulled by Diana and came down on his own, which is why we see him undoing the lasso's knot on his leg.
Gallery
How is this not a good feat? Shazam was in a hurry to go after Batman and Wonder Woman caught him with the lasso even after he had already taken off. If anything this would be a good reaction feat for WW indicating her reaction speed with the lassos reach is better than his travel speed.
Aquaman was suspicious of the reason Lex dropped their conversation mid-sentence and ran off, so he instructed Diana and Billy to get there. The urgency in his statement obviously meant he intended them to get there quickly. And if you look at the monitor, you can see that Diana left at the exact same time as Shazam, so there goes your notion that Diana was not in a hurry to get to the watchtower.
I never stated that Diana wasn't in a hurry to get to the Watchtower, just that she wasn't trying to race BIlly whereas he was actively trying to beat her. Not only that, but Shazam and Wonder Woman were on different parts of the planet and met up somewhere in orbit. We don't know who was closer or further from the tower, all we know is what was seen on the scan. Shazam claimed he beat WW, which resulted in her looking at him like he was an idiot. Then we have the actual scan of them reaching the Watchtower at the exact same time. If you don't want to accept that WW (who has speedblitzed beings like Supergirl and Superdoom) matched Shazam in speed, then you cannot deny that the scan showed their travel speed to be so close that it wouldn't make a difference in a fight.
Nothing indicated who got there first other than the statement by Shazam. Regardless of your attempt to undermine the final results, that does not change the simple fact that Shazam did in fact arrive there earlier.
Character statements don't mean anything when the scan itself shows the true fact that they arrived at the same time. Supergirl stated WW looked as strong as Kal, but does that make it a fact?
The bracelet argument is a poor one. You speak as though she removes them constantly. For the argument to even work, you'd have to somehow prove that she gets faster without the bracelets. The three times they were removed, they gave no indication of an increase in speed, just strength, and a decrease in morals.
The bracelet argument is entirely valid. Wonder Woman has used the bracelets 5 times already. The bracelets were already explained to dampen Wonder Womans full power. Everytime she has used them her speed has increased. The first time she ran at Artemis in god-mode she left a trail of energy behind as she used her superspeed. When she first used it against First Born she created a sonic boom when she flew him up, something she had never shown to do before. And she used god-mode to speedblitz Superdoom, a being that has flown to planets in a matter of minutes. In fact when Superdoom launched at Hessia (I think that was her name) WW was able to, take off her bracelets, fly between the two of them, pull out her lasso, tie him up and fly him into outer space all in a matter of seconds.
God Mode Wonder Woman caught SuperDoom off guard in their first fight, this is how Round 2 ended.
Still one of my fav dc ladies
Log in to comment