Necrons Vs. Forerunners

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Vrakmul

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@wut: Why the hell do Space Marines need Pauldrons that kill their periphery vision deader than a dodo?

Nobody knows.

It could also be more of Matt Wards' purple prose at work.

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Jmarshmallow

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Forerunner.

Jmarshmallow

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Wut

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@vrakmul: Psh, who needs periphery vision?

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LeSuperheros4

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#104  Edited By LeSuperheros4

This will probably be a long and close fight, but keep in mind a few things. When Necron units "die" to the point of being unable to perform battlefield repairs, their remains are phased back into their Tomb Worlds where they are repaired to full strength and sent back out. If a Necron force is defeated, combat and strategic data taken from the battle is used to modify Necron tactics. The only way to fully destroy Necrons is to melt their bodies into slag or with Warp attacks. Also, the Necrons have things like the World Engine and the Aeon Spheres. The World Engine can glass sub-sectors with ease while Aeon Spheres are lore mentioned devices the size of Battle Titans that contain large stars and use them in combat. Necrons also have some of the best tacticians in the galaxy including Imotekh the Stormlord and Nemesor Zandrekh. The Necrons are not affected by morale or fear and assaulting their planets is very difficult. Also, no one has yet seen the full extent of the Necron military because nobody has posed a significant enough threat. The Forerunners probably will.

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LeSuperheros4

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@cjdavis103: The Old Ones had god-like psyker abilities, mastery of the Webway, and the Eldar and predecessors to the Orks.

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jwwprod

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Still going with the Necrons.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@wut: I can't wait till they go more in depth with the Precursors honestly. lol If they ever do they and make them how they are suppose to in legend theres gonna be a new race to wipe the floors against the other sci-fi races. XD

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Vortex1456789

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#108  Edited By Vortex1456789

Forerunner.

Jmarshmallow

Agreed, they have far more ships and planets. Well maybe not ships but definitely planets.

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Vortex1456789

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#109  Edited By Vortex1456789

@wut said:

@raestlin86: Only if we assume the ratio from citizen to military holds which there is no evidence to support this as what are the odds the Flood infected the same amount of each to keep the ratio nice and tidy? Do you think a flood form was like, "Hmm... nah... we got our quota on citizens filled... do you know where I can find a soldier, perchance?"

The necrontyr are worthless to speak about. It doesn't matter how many there were. It never will matter how many there were since we are talking about WiH Necrons. Only WiH Necron numbers matter. Immortals are in the trillions awesome. That means between 2 and (Incredibly optimistic to the point of nonsense) 999, very vague, no? Far from countless since it says trillions... kinda gives us a rough idea.

A single planet had over two-hundred trillion people. The Forerunners had many planets. Thus, they have many soldiers and the potential for many, many more, so assuming the Necrons win from a baseless claim that they outnumber the Forerunners is a little odd, wouldn't you agree?

Wait, wait, the Forerunners had over trillion people on many planets ? That's even more than Holy Terra itself !

By the way, This story is pretty good in my opinion.

Justice League: Spartan Alliance - Fanfiction.net

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Oboga

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Necrons win after a tough fight. What can the Forerunners really stop the C'Tan with?

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Vortex1456789

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@the_imperator said:

@hewhosees: Meh, not going to comment on another site's debate, but it just depends on the fans, and which calcs are used. Warhammer high calcs are way above Star Wars high calcs, and on average Warhammer pulls out ahead in per ship firepower, mainly because their ships are bigger and much, much more heavily armored than Star Wars craft. The Empire has FTL advantage, and communication advantage, but in a straight fight they would lose IMHO.

You also forgot total ship numbers as an advantage for the Empire against the Imperium. And the production capacity of the Empire. You also don't seem to know a lot of the sizes for the ships of the Empire because, if you did, that horse hocky about the Imperium's ships being larger wouldn't fly as much as you'd want it to.

I don't think the Empire has more ships than the Imperium.

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DottiestMoon

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My money is on the forerunners due having the tech to kill all life in the universe.

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Detrolord

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Necrons

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Eisenfauste

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Forerunners

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jwwprod

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#115  Edited By jwwprod

@dottiestmoon said:

My money is on the forerunners due having the tech to kill all life in the galaxy.

Fixed :)

And Necrons are also capable of that.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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Vortex1456789

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#117  Edited By Vortex1456789

Forerunners

It would be a stalemate at best.

I don't think you've read 40k novels.

Necrons have tanks and melee weapons that can shatter planets, time travel, casual time manipulation guns that go through terminator armor and more.

Even if the forerunner combat skins are master chief times ten, they are still going to be destroyed by necron guns.

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Vortex1456789

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@the_imperator said:

@hewhosees: Meh, not going to comment on another site's debate, but it just depends on the fans, and which calcs are used. Warhammer high calcs are way above Star Wars high calcs, and on average Warhammer pulls out ahead in per ship firepower, mainly because their ships are bigger and much, much more heavily armored than Star Wars craft. The Empire has FTL advantage, and communication advantage, but in a straight fight they would lose IMHO.

You also forgot total ship numbers as an advantage for the Empire against the Imperium. And the production capacity of the Empire. You also don't seem to know a lot of the sizes for the ships of the Empire because, if you did, that horse hocky about the Imperium's ships being larger wouldn't fly as much as you'd want it to.

Uhh no, the empire had 25,000 sds and 1.6 million other ships if you use the wizard thing which is the same source that said the GE had trillions of soldiers. the Imperium has 6-10 million ships or more using the highest calcs.

As for ship size, the Imperium has the gloriana class battleship largest of which grew to 30 km in length, although their production was halted after the horus Heresy. So the GE has neither the numbers advantage nor the ship size advantage.

However, the GE has the potential to build more ships than the Imperium because of the world devastator and they are technologically innovative, unlike the IOM where technological innovation is almost unheard of.

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CelestialFox

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@dottiestmoon said:

My money is on the forerunners due having the tech to kill all life in the universe.

Ah, well the Necrons have a voodoo doll of the galaxy, and I'm not kidding.

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Leefish

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#120  Edited By Leefish

For the "Destroy all life in the galaxy so on so on..." Forerunners superweapon halo; lets start with this.

The Necrons are not living anymore. They are animated machines. Therefore that weapon is useless. Necrons can travel FTL without warp tech. Gauss flayers and all of that type, in the (war on heaven edition) could use their destructive force on anything. It did depend on the size of the beam, ect though. As for the Forerunners, although they are beings of intellect and power, may I remind all of you they were forced to enact a weapon to destroy all life in the galaxy. They could not beat the flood, no matter the fanciness of their weapons. Remember as well that A: They are in the HU, not the WH40k. They do not need to deal with chaos gods or imperium of man, so on so forth. However though, there is no implication that either side knows anything of the other. This leads to the point that necrons, which weapons are basically all designed to be one hit destruction type, will prove most powerful in the first conflict. Mainly because since necrons travel FTL without a noticeable energy signature, there is no way that any form of known scanning could catch them in time before they attacked. Forerunners may be powerful, but their tech was not designed to fight machines. Although on a scale of FR>LR(Lesser races: Humans, Covenant, ect.) their weapons might damage machines, but this is versus the Necrons. Based on what Necron ships are made of, lets assume for the moment it's not a world engine or another fancy ship.

Lets assume its one of those classic tomb world sickle shaped ones. For some reason, explained by the wonderful lore:(Mysterious unexplained technology of necron power), when these ships(And any necron one) travels faster than FTL without teleportation, it retains it's solid state. That also means its more than resistant to anything it hits along the way. This would most likely include planets, or even the FR dreadnoughts.

Now remember, alot of anything is fan based in these battles, because one person is looking for how to beat this and how to beat that.

Now lets move on to superheavy fighting. You have your solar powered forerunner weapons, (not Ark and rings, that was proven useless) your other forerunner superweapons. For what? Never before has there been a single fight where a small tombship or a singular large ship has been there. There never has been a need for it. Necron tomb worlds are nearly undetectable until unearthed, so what, maybe there's one in every thousand or so planets in the Forerunner empire. As for superheavy fights in space, once again necrons would win. Aside from the Celestial Osserary, which would allow them to literally just poke the forerunners out of existence.) You have to remember again, that necron tech isn't slow moving. Its designed to win and be done with it. They could generate pocket dimensions willy nilly, including mr time traveller's present to an inquisitor, showing that it really isn't bothersome for them. Theres large tombships, world engines, and the such.

Forerunners have hardlight, lasers, and giant beams of energy that decimate planets and such. However necrons can PHASE. meaning that all attacks directed against them are absolutely useless on large scale. The only time you actually see necron troops is defending a tomb world or for a harvest. Finally, last but not least we arrive at the issue of who would win. IMO, necrons. But I've said that. Lets go to ctan

To use the Onyx, first the Forerunners would have to detect the Ctan, use it on them. Second, the only reason the necrons managed to capture the Ctan was because they did it behind their backs with their own technology. As for WOH, they were never sealed. As for not war on heaven, they were shattered so they were still potent, but not strong enough to fight back in time to stop them from re-trapping them.

Aside from the Celestial Ossery, or the world engines, or time travel, Ctan are quite potent. Theres the deciever, who could simply cut off all communications between the worlds, making sure that they had no way to warn them of "Of all that is not steel and green scary light, there are things killing us all!" The mars dragon, which is a Ctan(pretty much canon, however last I checked it only indirectly stated it.) is how the Imperium first got ahold of alot of supertech and power. There are plenty of Ctan with enough power to destroy planets or segment reality, but hey, lets leave them out of this for now.

Lets focus on one thing: production.

Forerunners need resources, necrons kinda need resources. Necrons can repair their own armies at no cost, even if they needed to. And remember, Forerunners are living things. Therefore they are subject to all cryptek, ctan mind and necron lord mental powers. This means that they could have a monolith go FTL, appear infront of a dreadnaught, scramble anyone's brains on board before systematically destroying the ship. As for an AI run ship, They could simply shut down the power. Yes, it's that simple, necrons do have insanely advanced anti electronics weaponry which they have displayed. They also can phase. I mentioned that though. So a monolith, with a powerful energy source(All of them) could phase out right infront of one of these dreadnoughts, phase to solid form, have the portal enter vortex mode and just suck the ship in. Same goes for almost every situation. The problem is not how many there are, it's simply this. Forerunners are written from a past lore standpoint. Which means their tech is ancient and superpowerful, but it also means they lost.

The necrons on the other hand, simply destroyed most of the universe and decided to take a nap so planets could repopulate and they could kill them again.

And no, The ark and halo rings cannot destroy necron systems as they can repair themselves. Their legs can walk over to the rest of them to reattach. Their "Nervous system" is really just living necrodermis with programmable orders. The higher functioning ones are just advanced computers. As well, if it destroyed all sentient beings, then it would have destroyed all forerunner relics, as they had automated systems, which is similar to basic necron tech.

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sirfizzwhizz

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#121  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

Necrons win. They have Time Travel and Manipulation, Molecular level weapons, C'tan with Planet+ level Reality Warping, Planet size ships, and can erase parts of the galaxy on a map. Im not seeing this a contest to be honest.

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jwwprod

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#122  Edited By jwwprod

Still Necrons.

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deactivated-5cc9f423d4bb9

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Necrons, because they have more impressive weapons, tech, ect

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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War in Heaven Necrons lolstomp. Current Necrons still win, but not by as much

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sirfizzwhizz

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Bump, still Necrons.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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deactivated-5cc9f423d4bb9

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Eldar OP

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Realistic

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#131  Edited By Realistic

Forerunners! They have a lot more at their disposal. Trillions of troops and trillions more sentinals. 10-20 million, 50-350km ships, 3million planets. Personal shields that are 10x better than Master Chiefs. Shield worlds, Dyson Spheres, Slip Space jumps, can move planets and stars. Use other dimensions.

What do the necrons have? 10km ships, no personal shields but can heal, decent weapons at best, trillions of troops as well.. no AI and prossibly a few million ships that can just destroy small moons. We can see who the winner is obviously.

Nothing is said about their ground tanks or APCs for either side. But we can guess Necrons wouldn't have shields on theirs seeing as their troops don't. Whereas Forerunners have shields on everything, even their troops.

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MErulezall

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@realistic: Necrons are organic and have a nerve system to be affected by the Halo array. The biggest advantage WiH necrons had was either C'tan or Time Control, but thats it. Everything else is a draw, land engagements don't matter, space wins wars on this scale, and so does the super weapons. However, I love how you from "halo lolstomps!" to "necrons win!" What's even better is you made three posts back to back to back to idk bump this up and to create another debate?

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MErulezall

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@realistic:

I did more research. I'm unbiased and changed my opinion. The Necrons don't have a nervous system as stated they're metal organisms gifted by C'tan..

Let me direct you to this,

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/necrons-vs-forerunners-1483923/?page=2#js-message-12759239

and then

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/necrons-vs-forerunners-1483923/?page=2#js-message-12759613

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/necrons-vs-forerunners-1483923/?page=2#js-message-12759638

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/necrons-vs-forerunners-1483923/?page=2#js-message-12759643

I mean i could literally paraphrase the words Mr. Wut has used, but then again he basically already states it, so unless you can disprove such claims they die to the halos. Overall WiH necrons and Forerunners at their height = tie, unless necrons use time travel which it favors them then.

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MErulezall

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@realistic: Wut just said they are not machines. We are not counting the C'tan. As I said WiH = Forerunners. Whoever wins space wins the war you do realize that right? Outside of super weapons.....

The Necrons are not machines in the same sense as that of the Forerunner A.I's. The Forerunner's droids were built in a factor, Necrons were not.

They are not creatures of flesh and blood, these Necrons, but android warriors whose immortal forms are forged from living metal. Given time, severed limbs reattach, armour plating reknits and shattered mechanical organs are rebuilt.

-Warhammer Necron Codex

You need to prove they don't have a nervous system. You have yet to prove they aren't sentient.

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MErulezall

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@realistic:

look, I made a comparison between the two as they're metal and parted their living forms. Also as I said a few times already the Necrons use phasing to by pass shields and dodge attacks. Though they don't dodge often.

I don't care what you said, I said prove they aren't sentient and prove they can tank the halo array. You reading wiki for 5 mins vs a person who's spent years on the topic ( wut ) has already stated the obvious.

I said they can use their phasing to travel anywhere at anytime. They can travel to the planets directly.

Prove it.

But like I said the Necrons can surprise attack the ground then leave. World by world.

Ground doesn't matter when ure teleportation is limited to your own planets which the Forerunners can find....

Forerunners also have TP as well fyi.

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MErulezall

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#142  Edited By MErulezall

@realistic:

idc what you or your bf wut said?? If that isn't obvious already.

Then why are you even trying? You're literally bumping a thread for no other reason. Have you even heard of the "edit" button before? It does wonders.

I also said it wouldn't matter if they were. You can't prove or disapprove. But someone with common sense would know a metal body doesn't have a nervous system SMH...

Someone with common sense would realize they are living metal with organs.... Thats what the quote said, so yes they are sentient, they have a nervous system, and they will die to the rings. SSSSSSMMMMHHHHH But please keep flailing about how its "common sense!" Just like how today's earth would lolstomp the Chimera.

Dude, ground matters more than space in this debate specifically and any case regarding the Necrons.

Prove it. Prove the avg necron warrior can shoot down Forerunner ships. Ill wait. Display to me the Necron's more heavier super weapons which are in space..... are less valuable then the Necron warriors stuck on a planet down below.

@wut I don't think this guy is gonna make it very far on this site. Thinks space doesn't matter and ground does.

Obviously the Forerunners can. As a halo fan boy you really suck at both halo lore and warhammer lore.

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Wut

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@merulezall: Funny enough, IIRC, I did find a feat of a severed necron hand moving on its own back in the day so if they even need a spine outside of structural integrity... who knows? Necrons are weird.

Although, yeah, anyone calling a Necron a 'machine' doesn't really understand what the Necrons are.

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MErulezall

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@wut: Necrons are indeed a mysterious bunch ahaha.

I think he sees skynet and then necrons and then lumps them together. Btw I guess according to him ure my bf.... Lol?

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Wut

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#145  Edited By Wut

@merulezall: A lot of people do. You know what is kind of a neat look into cultures? The Forerunners created shield worlds, worlds to protect their people. The Necrons created world engines, worlds to defeat their enemies [which there are many, apparently]. Interesting philosophical and design difference between them.

Bf? :D Please, I could do better.

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MErulezall

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@wut:

Its funny cause the Necrons were the aggressors while the Forerunners were the defenders in their great wars. Lol.

Well I'm not gay, and if I was you wouldn't be my type because I don't date warhammer fanboys hahaha.

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Wut

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@merulezall: Just a neat look into those two 'super powerful precursor' races. I mean, apparently even the Necrons have limits since they erased the c'tan defeating tech from their mind because it was too scary, even for them, but just fun to note.

!!! What!? [God, reminds me of Archer where he gets super offended that the cuban spy isn't interested in him]

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Realistic

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You guys are cute. Get married and say you met off a Forerunner vs Necron thread.

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baph

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Necrons handily.