I was just having a little fun with you, because you said he was made to kill Apocalypse, but he never did. He came off worse every time they crossed paths. He almost got turned into a host body during The Twelve arc. Cable was also created to kill Apocalypse, and was a bit more successful, which just goes to show how badly all three characters' powers fluctuate.
yeah well apoc has terrible showings most the times if you read what hes capable of and the celestial tech he has well it boggles the mind how much he loses, but yeah i figured you were giving me crap about it
I wasn't giving you crap about it, sorry if it came across that way. Apocalypse also has some pretty good showings, where he is the dictator of the entire planet. He also used to shrug the X-Men off like they were nothing back in the 80's/90's. He even laughed off a combined attack from the X-Men and the Inhuman Royal Family, including Black Bolt.
yeah i forgot the whole black bolt incident and when i personally saying giving crap i mean just like joking or ribbing no harm meant and none taken i have a thick skin unlike some others around here that start crying at the drop of a hat. but on the post since both are gone now id say stalemate
@Korg: Hello. Yes I agree that all of Cable's fluctuation in power are quite perturbing. I also was wondering why X-Man is more powerful than Stryfe even though both are Cable without the Virus. Any ideas?
all these fights that nate supposedly lost was when he was untrained and was about a yr or two old literally....nate would stomp on Apoc in a real no holds bar battle.
first off he has or had a genetic brand he recieved after merging with his other self granting him better control of his powers and stopping his genetic degradation.... stryfe was only a clone of cable with limited TP and TK abilities that he was never able to master due to apoc simply wanting him to not have control over his powers so it would be easier for him to possess with him when he came of age.. nate has also shown as an inexperience hero some very impressive feats that stryfe has never shown capable of accomplishing...
Stryfe was also physically augmented by Apocalypse, and gained mastery over telepathy and telekinesis that were incredibly impressive (he shut off Jean Grey and Cyclops' powers with his own telepathy). Not sure why castleking thinks he never mastered them, maybe we're thinking in different terms of mastery. He's right about Nate Grey merging with another version of himself though. That is the main reason he was more powerful than Stryfe. He was also a hero, who was more popular, and had his own book for quite a while, so he naturally has more feats to his name than Stryfe does. As for Apocalypse healing from every attack Nate launches at him - that depends on Apocalypse's power levels, and the writer. As shaman, Nate would be able to dish out attacks that Apocalypse probably wouldn't even be able to defend, let alone heal from.
@Korg: I am curious as to how Apocalypse would not be able to both defend from and heal from X-Man's attacks. Could you kindly explain this to me? Assuming this is Apocalypse at full power and X-Man at full power. Disregarding the writer.
X-Man was created by Sinister to eliminate Apocalypse and his power is based from Jean Grey known to the AOA storyline as Mutant Alpha...the most powerful mutant in their dimension. It has always been a fact that any child of Cyclops with Jean Grey or any of her versions or clone will always create insanely powerful mutants.
@The Phoenix Child: I find it amusing how Sinister created X-Man to defeat Apocalypse but X-Man never came close to doing so. Not to mention the fact that Apocalypse could simply heal from any attack or even defend himself with his telekinesis. Could X-Man handle Apocalypse's access to Celestian technology, his Genius-level intelligence, technopathic powers, energy absorption abilities, energy manipulation powers, teleportation and self-manipulation abilities?
" @The Phoenix Child: I find it amusing how Sinister created X-Man to defeat Apocalypse but X-Man never came close to doing so. Not to mention the fact that Apocalypse could simply heal from any attack or even defend himself with his telekinesis. Could X-Man handle Apocalypse's access to Celestian technology, his Genius-level intelligence, technopathic powers, energy absorption abilities, energy manipulation powers, teleportation and self-manipulation abilities? "
If Apocalypse was all that, he'd be on top of the world right now, instead of running from the Celestials and trying to end his life a few years ago ;-)
@lazystudent: Well, if both X-Man and Apocalypse were at full power, bloodlust is on, and both are at the highest in terms of skill, experience and raw power, then Apocalypse should win. How could X-Man win if Apocalypse could simply heal from any attack or even defend himself with his telekinesi? Could X-Man handle Apocalypse's access to Celestian technology, his Genius-level intelligence, technopathic powers, energy absorption abilities, energy manipulation powers, teleportation and self-manipulation abilities? %Pr
Shaman X-Man is simply on another level from Apoc. He could actually deliver on the purpose of his birth on pure power alone, Nate's control was even greater than when Cable went full-on against Surfer. Apoc isn't takin this.
@Emerald_General_Jai: Kindly read my previous post, with all the specifics, and please explain to me how X-Man would defeat Apocalypse. I think Apocalypse wins. %Pr
" @lazystudent: Well, if both X-Man and Apocalypse were at full power, bloodlust is on, and both are at the highest in terms of skill, experience and raw power, then Apocalypse should win. How could X-Man win if Apocalypse could simply heal from any attack or even defend himself with his telekinesi? Could X-Man handle Apocalypse's access to Celestian technology, his Genius-level intelligence, technopathic powers, energy absorption abilities, energy manipulation powers, teleportation and self-manipulation abilities? %Pr "
xman would still destroy apocalypse if blood lusted, he is far more powerfull in terms of telepathy and telekeneis than apocalypse simply becuase hes as powwerfull as he can be. Without his body dieing instantly for the power overload. As for intellegence and technology there not much help when the oppeneant knows you moves the same time you do via tp and xman is far move powerfull than cable and cable has taken apocalypse down so stands to reason that a more powerfull version of himself would do it easily.
When you say that Cable defeated Apocalypse, do you mean that Cable ruined his plans or are you saying that Cable has killed Apocalypse once before? If that is so, then how, may I ask, did Cable manage to do that?
Could X-Man handle Apocalypse's teleportation, transmutation abilities, almost limitless strength and power, his complete control of his body on the cellular and molecular level?
Could X-Man penetrate Apocalypse's force fields? Could Apocalypse absorb all of X-Man's telekinetic and telepathic or other energies? What if Apocalypse reached a size or mass to large and big for X-Man to handle? Also, matter manipulation has no effect on Apocalypse and he can adapt his molecular structure to any adversity. X-Man could barely use half of his powers because if he did he would have killed himself. It was too much power for X-Man to handle. So I guess that at full power X-Man could sacrifice himself and kill Apocalypse. Is that how it would go? %Pr
@FLCL1: Yeah. Sorry about that. I did not intend to make it a poll. I meant to say X-Man vs Apocalypse. Both are at full power, at the highest in terms of skill, experience and raw power. Both are fully rested, bloodlust is on and there is no holding back. Both are going at it 100%. %Pr
" @FLCL1: Yeah. Sorry about that. I did not intend to make it a poll. I meant to say X-Man vs Apocalypse. Both are at full power, at the highest in terms of skill, experience and raw power. Both are fully rested, bloodlust is on and there is no holding back. Both are going at it 100%. %Pr "
" @lazystudent: Hello. When you say that Cable defeated Apocalypse, do you mean that Cable ruined his plans or are you saying that Cable has killed Apocalypse once before? If that is so, then how, may I ask, did Cable manage to do that? Could X-Man handle Apocalypse's teleportation, transmutation abilities, almost limitless strength and power, his complete control of his body on the cellular and molecular level? Could X-Man penetrate Apocalypse's force fields? Could Apocalypse absorb all of X-Man's telekinetic and telepathic or other energies? What if Apocalypse reached a size or mass to large and big for X-Man to handle? Also, matter manipulation has no effect on Apocalypse and he can adapt his molecular structure to any adversity. X-Man could barely use half of his powers because if he did he would have killed himself. It was too much power for X-Man to handle. So I guess that at full power X-Man could sacrifice himself and kill Apocalypse. Is that how it would go? %Pr "
xman would do exactly that use enough power to get the job done and then probs die but he would still win and thats all that matters, apocylpse's tk shield would also be weaker than xmans since it would be the highest any mutant could possibly have without dieing or being empowered by something else.
@lazystudent: Actually, I just learned that X-Man received a tattoo that prevents him from killing himself. So X-Man can defeat Apocalypse and stay alive. However, if Apocalypse is a full power and has full prep, then Apocalypse might win. %Pr
" @lazystudent: Actually, I just learned that X-Man received a tattoo that prevents him from killing himself. So X-Man can defeat Apocalypse and stay alive. However, if Apocalypse is a full power and has full prep, then Apocalypse might win. %Pr "
well if it only means he cant die but cna use his full power he will still win lol , possibly even with prep since how cna you contain someone whos that powerful ?
@lazystudent: LMAO. Well, Apocalypse at full power and at full prep can do much more than that. With full prep and at full power, Apocalypse SHOULD be able to defeat almost any mutant. Can X-Man handle Apocalypse's Celestial technology? Apocalypse has lived much longer than X-Man has; that means Apocalypse has more experience. However, you are right. Post Shaman X-Man (if there is or will be such a character) might be able to overwhelm Apocalypse because X-Man's telepathy and telekinesis are just way too powerful. %Pr
" @lazystudent: LMAO. Well, Apocalypse at full power and at full prep can do much more than that. With full prep and at full power, Apocalypse SHOULD be able to defeat almost any mutant. Can X-Man handle Apocalypse's Celestial technology? Apocalypse has lived much longer than X-Man has; that means Apocalypse has more experience. However, you are right. Post Shaman X-Man (if there is or will be such a character) might be able to overwhelm Apocalypse because X-Man's telepathy and telekinesis are just way too powerful. %Pr "
Technology wont help apocylpse enough here nate could just destroy it if he goes all out nothing apocylpse has can match it for the simple reason that its impossible to be more powerful than nate and live without an external force ie the phoenix or some sort of gadget/ item such as the infinty gauntlet neither of which apocylpse has
" Too lazy to read every post, but wasn't X-Man created to, well, defeat Apocalypse? "
Nimrod was created to eliminate all mutants, but Nimrod can't defeat Magneto, Hyperstorm or even Apocalypse. @lazystudent said:
" @cracks said:
" @lazystudent: LMAO. Well, Apocalypse at full power and at full prep can do much more than that. With full prep and at full power, Apocalypse SHOULD be able to defeat almost any mutant. Can X-Man handle Apocalypse's Celestial technology? Apocalypse has lived much longer than X-Man has; that means Apocalypse has more experience. However, you are right. Post Shaman X-Man (if there is or will be such a character) might be able to overwhelm Apocalypse because X-Man's telepathy and telekinesis are just way too powerful. %Pr "
Technology wont help apocylpse enough here nate could just destroy it if he goes all out nothing apocylpse has can match it for the simple reason that its impossible to be more powerful than nate and live without an external force ie the phoenix or some sort of gadget/ item such as the infinty gauntlet neither of which apocylpse has "
The full prep would involve making Apocalypse completely immune to all of X-Man's attacks. %Pr
" Too lazy to read every post, but wasn't X-Man created to, well, defeat Apocalypse? "
Nimrod was created to eliminate all mutants, but Nimrod can't defeat Magneto, Hyperstorm or even Apocalypse.
@lazystudent
said:
" @cracks said:
" @lazystudent: LMAO. Well, Apocalypse at full power and at full prep can do much more than that. With full prep and at full power, Apocalypse SHOULD be able to defeat almost any mutant. Can X-Man handle Apocalypse's Celestial technology? Apocalypse has lived much longer than X-Man has; that means Apocalypse has more experience. However, you are right. Post Shaman X-Man (if there is or will be such a character) might be able to overwhelm Apocalypse because X-Man's telepathy and telekinesis are just way too powerful. %Pr "
Technology wont help apocylpse enough here nate could just destroy it if he goes all out nothing apocylpse has can match it for the simple reason that its impossible to be more powerful than nate and live without an external force ie the phoenix or some sort of gadget/ item such as the infinty gauntlet neither of which apocylpse has "
The full prep would involve making Apocalypse completely immune to all of X-Man's attacks. %Pr "
if he could do that why hasnt he already? , appoclypse cant completely shut down nate otherwise cable wouldnt of been such a problem for him would he lol
@lazystudent: Why hasn't he already? Good guys always win. So you are telling me that Apocalypse, a mutant who is much older, much more intelligent and experienced than X-Man, would lose against X-Man? Why is that? Do you really think that X-Man can handle Apocalypse when the latter has full prep and has access to Celestial technology? I doubt it, but since you think so tell me how and why. Thanks. %Pr
@cracks: easy apoclypse with prep has lost multipal times to people with less power in his major arcs. Yeah hes the badguy so he has to lose but the fact remains he still has, magneto beats him in a fight and xman would murder mags , cable bests apoclypse multipal times and xman is a stronger version of him.
Apoclypses access to technology is useful but the statement you said about him being able to block all of nates abilties has no foundation, wheres your proof he can block someone on nates level ?.
Where has apocylpse used said technology to neutralise an opponenet like this?
. Nate on the otherhand can walk in as he is and be virtually guarrented a win since hes vastly more powerful than apocylpse hes the maxumium any mutant can be in his powerset so he will win its very simple thats why the only other people bar you on this post agree with me lol.
@lazystudent: Magneto has more experience and skill than X-Man. Magneto is older than X-Man. I am not so sure about which of the two has more raw power. It might be X-Man, but Magneto is quite powerful. Magneto has and easily can defend himself from telekinetic and telepathic attacks. X-Man's powers are, for the most part, extremely powerful telekinesis and telepathy. Magneto can defend himself from both of these types of attacks, almost easily. Magneto's shield withstood blasts from Phoenix, Galactus and Thor. So I would not give the win immediately to X-Man in a X-Man vs. Magneto battle.
Cable defeat Apocalypse? How? Enlighten me. Apocalypse at full power can only be defeated by a few mutants.
Yes. Apocalypse's access to Celestial technology with his full prep and at full power can help him defeat X-Man. Or at least it should. I can only surmise the outcome.
I agree that X-Man has a much more raw power then Apocalypse, but the experience and skill is lower in comparison. That might not matter though.
where is the proof that i mentioned that Apocalypse has used his technology to cacncel someones power out before ? especially on xmans lvl ?.
Just cos its possible doesnt mean it will happen its equallily possible if not more so that xman could one shot apocylpse with a brutal first attack doenst means it will happen.
As for mags the point was ment to show he is weaker than xman over all and he beat a full powered apoclypse so xman should win easier than mags.
Cable has used he brain to outwit Apocalypse time and time again in battle and hes again far weaker than xmen so a full powered xman whos was breed in order to take down apocylpse who has trained all his life to do such a task would have no problem. Since iam sticking to my guns with xm,an due to the sheer raw power yeah experience holds some advantage but since the tech has not been provven to be abel to achive the resukts you mentioned 2 posts ago its still man to man and xman can alter his environment and his oppenant way easier with his powers so it has to be him 1 on 1 for me
@lazystudent: 1. That has never happened. There is no proof. This is because Apocalypse is poorly written.
2. Don't forget that Apocalypse had energy absorption. Apocalypse can teleport, make himself intangible and has complete control of his body on the cellular and molecular level (basically a "healing factor").
3. Apocalypse can also reach nearly limitless strength and can grow to a nearly immense size.
4. Apocalypse is more intelligent than X-Man and slightly more intelligent than Magneto. Apocalypse's access to and knowledge of Celestial technology would make the difference in a battle between X-Man and Apocalypse. If Apocalypse has full prep that lasts a full year he might be able to defeat X-Man
4. Certainly X-Man has much more raw power then Apocalypse so skirmish fight, the win goes to Nate Grey. However, Apocalypse at full power and with full prep, the latter being the most important and lasting a year might make the difference.
4. I don't think that Apocalypse was at full power when Magneto defeated him.
5. Cable might have been able to foil all of Apocalypse's plans, but Cable has never managed to kill Apocalypse.
6. I forgot to mention that Apocalypse defeated X-Man in "The Twelve" storyline.
1) The reason Apocalypse loses isnt cos hes poorly written
2) i havent forgotten any of the powers Apocalypse has shown before when i came to my decision ,so didnt need a reminder
3) telepathy is a great equaliser on any terms of planning and xman is probally the most powerful since he could just scan and see whats coming and can tk sheild himslf as well
4) As i said before whats he gonna be able to do with his tech? since you cant proove he has any way to weaken xman, and he has never made a plan which hasnt be foiled eventually by somone with less experience than him magneto has thousand of years less same with cable
5) if cable and mags can foil his plans then someone whos been breed to face and fight apocylpse his entire life will fair equally as well if not better due to massive power increase
6)back to powers the abilty to be intangible , energy absorbtion,teleport,flight nate also has but he has other abilties which would really screw with Apocalypse such as illusion casting and precognition and as with telepathy any plans come unstuck when your nemesis knows all about them, he could walk in and wreck the carefully laids plans up straight away.
7) as for the fact that xman lost to apocalypse in the 12 , that makes the debate alittle closer but the fact he lost in a fight to magneto whos has both far less powers in terms of range and less overall power means iam sticking with nate. the whole mags have more experience point you made was resolved by my comment above apocalypse the oldest mutant alive has more experience than anyone but he still loses
@lazystudent: By the way, let me know if I am annoying you. I will stop replying if it bothers you. Sorry.
3. Apocalypse is completely immune to telepathic assault, so there goes one of X-Man's powers. Obviously X-Man is the vastly superior telekinetic.
4. We have not seen what Apoc. can do with tech. or full prep. in the comics. We can only speculate. Magneto can open a black hole, but he never did so in the comics.
5. Nimrod was bred to eliminate all mutants, but he can't defeat Hyperstorm, Magneto or even Franklin Richards at full power. Point is being bred to accomplish something that not guarantee the desired result. Both Cable and Magneto are much more skilled and experienced than X-Man is. They are more likely to foil Apoc.'s plans than X-Man is.
7. Apocalypse defeated Magneto in their first battle in the AOA storyline. Then in their second and last battle Magneto won. Kind of confusing. Magneto won because good guys always win.
the combination of nates illusion and pyshoic powers would be enough to really through off and do some damage to apocylpse, hes tk would be of use on any machine apocylpse count use thou. As for prep he doesnt get loads of prep time due to th fact that his techonlogy is much more advanced than modern day stuff for teh good guys. If he did get long prpe his only excuse for failure would be himself. Nimord wasnt set up to ight one person thou having only one target and knowing thre strenght etc and tarining to fight a single oppenant is completly different from being breed to wipe out a whole race of people. As for magneto apocylpse battle yeah there was a fw fights but the overall winner is the one who didnt die lol
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