Nate Grey vs Rachel Summers

• Fight takes place in 616 Manhattan
• Character Morals apply
• Both know they are fighting someone, but not who it is
• Win is by incapacitation, KO, or death
  

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

xman since he is so very very poweful he doesnt need a foreign force to up his game

Rachel even without the Phoenix Force was able to do strong feats that X-Man can do. Levitate a city and even project her thoughts beyond time and space.
 
@cracks said:

" @The Phoenix Child: That shows Emma's skill and experience. Not raw power. "

" @cracks said:

" @Nobody: Excellent question. Personally, I see X-Man taking this.  Obviously, Rachel Summers has the advantage of being a host of the Phoenix Force. X-Man's telepathic output is roughly equal to that of the Dark Phoenix. Telekinesis? Whose is stronger? I don't know. Most likely X-Man. Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

People love to bring up Emma beating Rachel, based on skill without remembering that she (Emma) did the same thing to Nate (Xman #50), and after being in space Rachel has downloaded all of Professor Xs telepathic skill plus the few tricks she learned from Emma. "

" @cracks said:

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

That doesn't count for me...cheap thrill for marvel to level up Emma Frost to the rank as the top woman of the X-Men. Where can you see someone who throws around stars and moons as if they are pebbles be completely defeated by just one telepathic assault. Rachel never pushed herself against Emma...she was just to spite her...never really meant to kill her. 

It wasn't a cheap thrill. Emma was better in psinic combat than Rachel. When the top 5 telepaths were listed RAchel was nowhere to be found. The stars thing was when she had the FULL phoenix. In the battle with Emma she didn't the phoenix symbol was just to pay homage to Jean. 

Marvel was correct when Emma was decided to be the winner.

" awww its mamas boy vs daddys girl(not anymore lol)  im going for nate. "

" @The Phoenix Child said:

" @cracks said:

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

That doesn't count for me...cheap thrill for marvel to level up Emma Frost to the rank as the top woman of the X-Men. Where can you see someone who throws around stars and moons as if they are pebbles be completely defeated by just one telepathic assault. Rachel never pushed herself against Emma...she was just to spite her...never really meant to kill her. 

It wasn't a cheap thrill. Emma was better in psinic combat than Rachel. When the top 5 telepaths were listed RAchel was nowhere to be found. The stars thing was when she had the FULL phoenix. In the battle with Emma she didn't the phoenix symbol was just to pay homage to Jean. 

Marvel was correct when Emma was decided to be the winner.

"

@Son Of Storm said:

" @The Phoenix Child said:

" @cracks said:

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

That doesn't count for me...cheap thrill for marvel to level up Emma Frost to the rank as the top woman of the X-Men. Where can you see someone who throws around stars and moons as if they are pebbles be completely defeated by just one telepathic assault. Rachel never pushed herself against Emma...she was just to spite her...never really meant to kill her. 

It wasn't a cheap thrill. Emma was better in psinic combat than Rachel. When the top 5 telepaths were listed RAchel was nowhere to be found. The stars thing was when she had the FULL phoenix. In the battle with Emma she didn't the phoenix symbol was just to pay homage to Jean. 

Marvel was correct when Emma was decided to be the winner.

"

Point also to be taken Rachel never manifested her TK during the fight... her real intention in that battle is to humiliate Emma Frost. If Rachel gets serious she can literally rip Emma apart...Rachel was able to defeat Selene and could had killed her but Wolverine fatally wounded her. Emma could not handle Selene and can never will.
 
Even without the Phoenix force... Rachel is considered an Omega Level Mutant in fact, she is the first to be marked as such during her first appearances.
 
As to this fight, I would not completely leave Rachel out... this is not an easy fight for both.

"

@Son Of Storm said:

" @The Phoenix Child said:

" @cracks said:

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

That doesn't count for me...cheap thrill for marvel to level up Emma Frost to the rank as the top woman of the X-Men. Where can you see someone who throws around stars and moons as if they are pebbles be completely defeated by just one telepathic assault. Rachel never pushed herself against Emma...she was just to spite her...never really meant to kill her. 

It wasn't a cheap thrill. Emma was better in psinic combat than Rachel. When the top 5 telepaths were listed RAchel was nowhere to be found. The stars thing was when she had the FULL phoenix. In the battle with Emma she didn't the phoenix symbol was just to pay homage to Jean. 

Marvel was correct when Emma was decided to be the winner.

"

 

WTF??? Emma isn't even on that list of top five telepaths.

Gallery

"

@Son Of Storm said:

" @The Phoenix Child said:

" @cracks said:

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

That doesn't count for me...cheap thrill for marvel to level up Emma Frost to the rank as the top woman of the X-Men. Where can you see someone who throws around stars and moons as if they are pebbles be completely defeated by just one telepathic assault. Rachel never pushed herself against Emma...she was just to spite her...never really meant to kill her. 

It wasn't a cheap thrill. Emma was better in psinic combat than Rachel. When the top 5 telepaths were listed RAchel was nowhere to be found. The stars thing was when she had the FULL phoenix. In the battle with Emma she didn't the phoenix symbol was just to pay homage to Jean. 

Marvel was correct when Emma was decided to be the winner.

"

 

I understand that they are trying to make her the top dog as far as X-women, but she was never that strong. The Phoenix thing is how Rachel's powers manifest so it gonna be there whether she has it or not. I'm not hating on Emma, but her beating Rachel in one attack is as bad as Black Panther putting Silver Surfer in an armbar he couldn't get out of. lol "

And in any case Emma VS current Rachel. Emma would most likely loose. Rachel now has the skill and knowledge of TP straight from the head of Professor X. Emma admitted that the only reason she won was because Rachel didn't have the skills to combat her.

now back to your post.

They aren't trying to make her "top dog" she is. She has always been a "psi of the highest order". I know that already. The phoenix symbol will always stay there because even without the force itself its apart of her and her mother which is why she does it. 

I strongly disagree. In a battle TP vs TP. In the time-line that the battle took place it was the right choice to make Emma the winner. Rachel didnt have the skill or the power(backed by the skill or lack thereof) to beat Emma. Emma has been at this game since she was a teenager and learned from a top telepath herself. Who she defeated in a duel.

Actually BP had weakened SS so that is the only reason I can come up with. Because T'challa should not have been able to do that.

yep.

I'll go with Nate here but not easily.

"

@Son Of Storm said:

" @The Phoenix Child said:

" @cracks said:

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

That doesn't count for me...cheap thrill for marvel to level up Emma Frost to the rank as the top woman of the X-Men. Where can you see someone who throws around stars and moons as if they are pebbles be completely defeated by just one telepathic assault. Rachel never pushed herself against Emma...she was just to spite her...never really meant to kill her. 

It wasn't a cheap thrill. Emma was better in psinic combat than Rachel. When the top 5 telepaths were listed RAchel was nowhere to be found. The stars thing was when she had the FULL phoenix. In the battle with Emma she didn't the phoenix symbol was just to pay homage to Jean. 

Marvel was correct when Emma was decided to be the winner.

"

 

WTF??? Emma isn't even on that list of top five telepaths. It's BS that Emma beat Rachel. Throughout Emma's history how many encounters has she had were she was strong enough to beat anyone with one psionic attack? Never, but she can do that to Rachel. That's BS. I understand that they are trying to make her the top dog as far as X-women, but she was never that strong. The Phoenix thing is how Rachel's powers manifest so it gonna be there whether she has it or not. I'm not hating on Emma, but her beating Rachel in one attack is as bad as Black Panther putting Silver Surfer in an armbar he couldn't get out of. lol "

" Point also to be taken Rachel never manifested her TK during the fight... her real intention in that battle is to humiliate Emma Frost. If Rachel gets serious she can literally rip Emma apart...Rachel was able to defeat Selene and could had killed her but Wolverine fatally wounded her. Emma could not handle Selene and can never will. Even without the Phoenix force... Rachel is considered an Omega Level Mutant in fact, she is the first to be marked as such during her first appearances.  As to this fight, I would not completely leave Rachel out... this is not an easy fight for both. "

" @Phoenix of the Black Throne: So you are saying that Xavier would have defeated him if there weren't any innocent people? 
 
@Speedfreak said:

"

@Son Of Storm said:

" @The Phoenix Child said:

" @cracks said:

" Emma defeated Rachel Summers, so logically X-Man wins. "

That doesn't count for me...cheap thrill for marvel to level up Emma Frost to the rank as the top woman of the X-Men. Where can you see someone who throws around stars and moons as if they are pebbles be completely defeated by just one telepathic assault. Rachel never pushed herself against Emma...she was just to spite her...never really meant to kill her. 

It wasn't a cheap thrill. Emma was better in psinic combat than Rachel. When the top 5 telepaths were listed RAchel was nowhere to be found. The stars thing was when she had the FULL phoenix. In the battle with Emma she didn't the phoenix symbol was just to pay homage to Jean. 

Marvel was correct when Emma was decided to be the winner.

"

 

WTF??? Emma isn't even on that list of top five telepaths. It's BS that Emma beat Rachel. Throughout Emma's history how many encounters has she had were she was strong enough to beat anyone with one psionic attack? Never, but she can do that to Rachel. That's BS. I understand that they are trying to make her the top dog as far as X-women, but she was never that strong. The Phoenix thing is how Rachel's powers manifest so it gonna be there whether she has it or not. I'm not hating on Emma, but her beating Rachel in one attack is as bad as Black Panther putting Silver Surfer in an armbar he couldn't get out of. lol "

Emma is on the list of the top five most skilled and experienced telepaths.  There is a difference between skill and experience, .. and raw power. Obviously Rachel has much more raw power than Emma. However, Emma has more skill and experience. This may have changed though. 
 

It has

" @Son Of Storm: Then the list of the 5 telepaths of skill and experience should be updated as well. "

How so?

"
@cracks 
 
I'm saying that Xavier wasn't defeated by Nate,  Xavier more or less senses that Nate is powerful but a douche bag nonetheless, as he threatens to destroy the whole town to smoke Xavier out, so Charles tricks Nate into thinking he has defeated and killed him to get him to stop.  One could speculate that Nate would have won if the battle contiued but one could also speculate that since Nate couldn't handle Emmas telepathic attacks that Xavier could have a chance. "

How can he when threaten Rachel can skip through time and return the favor to his dysoptian brother. She can put his mind somewhere else... Rachel is not just an easy breezy cover girl... she came from a far more difficult background than Nate and had used her powers in a variety of ways.
 
 Quote from Son of Storm

I strongly disagree. In a battle TP vs TP. In the time-line that the battle took place it was the right choice to make Emma the winner. Rachel didnt have the skill or the power(backed by the skill or lack thereof) to beat Emma. Emma has been at this game since she was a teenager and learned from a top telepath herself. Who she defeated in a duel.

" @danhimself: X-Man's telepathic output is roughly equal to that of the Dark Phoenix. So that probably is unlikely.  "

" @Son Of Storm: Well, since Rachel later gained more skill and experience than Emma, she should be above Emma of the list of the 5.  Right?
 

" @Son Of Storm: I meant after, obviously. LOL. "

" @cracks said:

" @loganreme: Well, what I would like to know is which of the two has more skill, experience and raw power. Then I would know the answer. "

Rachel is more skilled and experienced, as far as raw power, Rachels full outpout has never been clocked and his has been and the only being he could be compared to was Dark Phoenix, it all gets murky because they are both said to have unlimited power, Nate needed a brand to handle this "unlimited power" or he would have died, Rachel has been a channel for the unlimited power of the Phoenix with no outside assistance, so one could speculate that she has more room to nautrally contain power than he does. "

Of course...The Grey women run the family..That includes the power!

Rachel should win here.
 
@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:

" @cracks said:

" @Phoenix of the Black Throne: Interesting. Thanks.   So, did the Phoenix Force like Jean more than it liked Rachel, or? Have we ever seen Rachel or Jean at full power without the Phoenix Force? "

I don't think it likes one or the other more, Jean is Phoenix, Rachel is their daughter, the Phoneix noticed Rachel because it thought she was Jean Grey as their psi sginatures where almost identicle.  They never seem to use the power at the same time, but at the time Rachel was using Phoenix it was at that time that Jean had rejected it which caused it to split one piece waking Maddie and another piece following Rachels astral body through the time stream and bringing her to the past.  When Rachel was stuck at the end of time she said that the Phoenix force simply left her this was around the time that Marvel put Jean back in her Green Phoenix uniform and was going to start her evolution but that story arc never went anywhere after the HE turned off all mutant powers and reversed mutations and then it was undone the six month gap happened and Jean was now without tk and had to develope a secondary mutation which was really just the return of her tk and then she finally evolved into White Phoenix after 150 years of incubation. "

This is a good match-up..I am not sure who would win here.

Nate in the end. 

Let's post in this one, shall we?

I'm using the same explanation as I did in the other one.