Naruto vs Team Taka

VS

Location:

Valley of Clouds and Lightning (where Taka fought Killer B)

Rules:

- Combatants are limited to the feats they have up until the Pain arc (except for Jugo who can go full on crazy mode like he did at the Kage Summit)

- Naruto starts in Sage Mode and has his summoning scroll + two clones who are charging up senjutsu

- Standard gear

- Morals on

- Taka are fighting Naruto with the same strategy they used against B (to kill)

- Naruto does not have his frog goon squad summoned

- Naruto cannot use Kurama's chakra

- Combatants start 20 metres apart

- Win via KO, kill, incap or BFR

Due to Naruto being nerferd severely taka wins

If you take away Kurama's chakra than Naruto probably gets stomped.

Naruto has no counter for genjutsu.

wrong. lol

1. Naruto's chakra was already massive before he even activated Kurama's chakra. He is easily hokage level without Kurama. Why? He inherited Ashura's spirit that could contend with the then Indra on his own, without the chakra of the tailed beasts. He was already Hokage level. Remember? Naruto did a hundred+ shadow clone with Kurama's chakra sealed. A high class jounin was only capable of a couple of clones.

2. Take example of Hashirama. Both are one in the same. Hashirama is a beast without tailed beasts. Naruto is same. Kabuto foresaw this.

3. Naruto did not rely on Kurama's chakra to take out the Peins.

@lowlaville said:

@roronuffy said:

@almighty said:

Due to Naruto being nerferd severely taka wins

If you take away Kurama's chakra than Naruto probably gets stomped.

wrong. lol

1. Naruto's chakra was already massive before he even activated Kurama's chakra. He is easily hokage level without Kurama. Why? He inherited Ashura's spirit that could contend with the then Indra on his own, without the chakra of the tailed beasts. He was already Hokage level. Remember? Naruto did a hundred+ shadow clone with Kurama's chakra sealed. A high class jounin was only capable of a couple of clones.

2. Take example of Hashirama. Both are one in the same. Hashirama is a beast without tailed beasts. Naruto is same. Kabuto foresaw this.

3. Naruto did not rely on Kurama's chakra to take out the Peins.

That scan proves nothing. It was stated in the manga that Kurama's chakra is always apart of him and increasing his own, he just could never fully control it. Also just just he has had Ashura's spirit means nothing. Sasuke has Indra's spirit and 3 other super strong ninja supporting him in this fight. Naruto could barely beat sasuke on his own (probably not at all without kurama) so he for sure isn't taking the team.

@roronuffy: Weak logic and faulty.

- Sage mode is exempt from chakra manipulation aka genjutsu (since Sasuke can't manipulate Senjutsu chakra!)
- Sage Mode is better than KCM. Naruto admits this in the 4th Shinobi War. It makes him faster and vastly more stronger.

- So now, Naruto has Indra's spirit AND Senjutsu chakra, which enhances not just his physical statistics and durability, also his senses. If a weaker version 1 state Jinchurikki can evade Sasuke and almost solo Taka, then Naruto with a better and stronger form than a perfected chakra cloak which is vastly more powerful than version 1 state, that means Taka has almost nothing to stop Naruto with.

- Rasengan is a perfected Juubi Bomb. Why'd he need a BB? A Rasenshuriken does more intense damage.

- And tell me how you think Taka stands even a remote chance of meeting Naruto's speed or strength.

@lowlaville:

SM just has a small reaction speed advantage.

DC/Durability goes to KCM definitely.

@roronuffy: Last post for the night. Naruto already overpowered Kurama's chakra with his own/Senjutsu, inside of him. Your point saying Naruto needs Kurama's chakra to win is nulled. Because he is capable of overcoming the same chakra! Thus, he is perfectly capable of winning, if at all; without Kurama's chakra.

Ah... no. SM gives Naruto continent+ senses at the very least.

As for durability...

Gallery

- Falls on top of spiked rocks, without a scratch
- Tanks a Shinra Tensei (that already turned a city to dust.)

Nagato once tried to control Naruto using his Rinnegan, but utterly failed at that. Compliments of Sage Mode. Otherwise, it'd be a piece of cake for a person with so6p powers to manipulate chakra.

He was taught how to dispell it from Jiraiya. Granted he failed against Itachi but he was weaker than and Itachi is above sasuke at this point. Also couldn't he fight with his eyes closed and just rely on sage sensing to avoid eye contact as well?

I think the main problem here for naruto are his morals. He might not end this as quickly as he should because he would likely want to save him and waste the time he can stay in sage mode. But aside from that I think Naruto has a chance.

1. I never said anything about genjutsu
2. This statement is completely illogical. Why would he never enter that mode against Madara or Kaguya if it was so much better? Did he just forget it was so much better?
3. Taka didn't almost get solo'd, they won and Bee had to flee. Also Bee at this point is a perfect jinchuuriki and Hachibi by itself fought the 3rd Raikage to a draw (the same Raikage Naruto had to go to his Sage Mode to beat).
4. What does that have to do with anything, he needs to Kurama's chakra for his clones
5. Sasuke could have beaten the 4th Raikage at this point so he could easily match Naruto's speed and strength with Susanoo and Amaterasu. By himself he can take all of Naruto's attention so with a team they beat Naruto every time.

Everything you've shown has been with Kurama as a part of Naruto and since it has always been established that Naruto is always subconciously using Kurama's chakra every feat you've shown could be argued to have been assisted by Kurama.

@lowlaville: To be fair pain didn't always unload city busting shinra tensei's. I don't think the one naruto tanked was that strong. Pain was only trying to incapacitate naruto.

Against Kaguya he was blending tail beast chakra and sage mode. He was using both forms against Kaguya at the same time. He did use sage mode against Madara briefly.

KCM is better in some ways but according to naruto sage mode is faster and has better sensing. Also I think the whole rhino feat is better than KCM Narutos strength feats from what I recall. KCM Naruto seems to have better travel speed and more chakra though (being able to create 1000 clones and go to several battle fields at once is above sage narutos abilities I guess).

*30 there were only about 30 of them, and when Naruto tried to make more he almost instantly reverted to base.

Naruto, he has Sage Mode which gives him precog, super strength, super durablility and super reflexes, in this state he is immune to genjutsus. Also he can increase his taijutsu range via nature energy manipulation which can't be countered by dojutsu wielders. Also when we are talking about Kurama's power that should only be apply when Naruto is using a biju cloak v1/v2, KCM, Biju Mode, Ashura Mode. So saying Naruto only has big chakra because of Kurama is stupid because somebody with a lot of chakra is needed to be used as Kurama's cage in the first place. Hell Naruto's whole control issue with his jutsu stems from the fact his chakra is needed to hold Kurama back from ripping out of him and killing everybody.

@roronuffy:

established that Naruto is always subconciously using Kurama's chakra every feat you've shown could be argued to have been assisted by Kurama.

Proof? The series has been very adamant in showing when Naruto was using the 9 tail chakra by giving very obvious visual cues i.e. red, catlike eyes or thicker whiskers.

My mistake.

@thatguywithheadphones:

His chakra has been combining with Kurama since he was a baby.

@roronuffy said:

@thatguywithheadphones:

His chakra has been combining with Kurama since he was a baby.

Can I get a full image or a link?

@roronuffy: Killer Bee didn't ran he chose to leave, he could have killed them at any time he chose not to because he wanted to use the battle as a distraction and a smoke screen to fool A so he can meet his master Sabu. A would have killed Sasuke and he would only lost a leg, the Susanno while powerful has been destroyed several times as the battle between A and Sasuke shown us also he gives no fucks concerning Ama. Also Ama is a non issue in the Narutoverse since its featless and didn't kill anything. Also the whole argument that any large ninjutsu that Naruto pulls of because of Kurama's chakra is refuted simply because that chakra was once Kurama's is now changed so that its Naruto's, the seal was intended to siphon off Kurama's chakra and increase Naruto's so it won't break the seal. Also it is Kurama's help only if the chakra is red, or in KCM, Biju Mode, Ashura Mode, Naruto's is yellow/orange in the manga (and in The Last), blue in the anime.

Naruto wins the majority. He took the Peins by himself with little effort, the only one who gave him trouble being Deva Path. The only significant threat here is Sasuke, but if Naruto can take on multiple Kage-level opponents (granted, Sasuke did the same but with more trouble), Taka shouldn't be much different.

Did Sasuke have ms yet?

He only used Amaterasu to end a fight when B went into full 8-Tails mode.

@comicstooge: Thanks for answering...though imo as long as he has his ms the amaterasu flame is a viable option.

He only used it to save his teammates. B literally would have killed him twice before, yet he didn't use it.

@comicstooge: This is true but Bee along side the Hachibi are in a totally different league than toad sage mode naruto without kurama's aid\chakra. Also he was still new\adjusting to his eyes.

True. I guess you could argue Naruto's sage mode might alert him to danger, but that's for you guys to argue.

Toad sage mode naruto isn't taking on a full enraged natural energy mode Jugo, the same Suigetsu who took on killer bee in full bijuu mode in the same scenario\battlefield where he fought bee near a lake, and Sasuke with decent ms control.

@vintage_spiderman: Even with summoning?

Naruto of course

Precisely. When he kicked the Gudou Dama, Naruto was in Sage Mode, suggesting SM gives the user molecular level invulnerability against damage.

I was referring to when Madara was soloing the shinobi alliance before he was in his 10 tails form. The naruto shadow clone did briefly try using sage mode when Madara absorbed his rasanshuriken IIRC. Obviously he was outclassed at that point because it was Madara.

I could be mistaken.

@jashro44: I am referring to after Naruto gained the Senjutsu of the Six paths power, when he went to rescue Gai from being obliterated by the Gudou Dama, Naruto was in Sage Mode.

Actually, Sage Mode is a living breathing counter to genjutsu. Unless Sasuke is capable of manipulating Natural energy, he cannot control Senjutsu chakra. If he cannot do that, he cannot trap Naruto in a genjutsu. One of the many advantages of Sage Mode. Edo Madara and Madara with Senjutsu chakra is an exception because both forms were capable of manipulating Senjutsu chakra.

Edo zombies also could not be controlled by even the infinite tsukiyomi because they contained spiritual energy and residual chakra.

I know.

@comicstooge: Hmmm which? All? Gamabunta inparticular? Or Ma and Pa specifically? Depends although it's still debatable imo. Too many factors like near lake location, Suigetsu's water logia intangibility, no Kurama, decent amaterasu control, bloodlusted Jugo who fought Raikage for a bit, hawk summoning for aerial advantage, Karin to hide and heal her teammates, not to mention Naruto is limited by his morals while on the other side sasuke, suigetsu, enraged impulse jugo have little if any atleast in comparison to Naruto he's too nice he won't kill\have killer intent unless absolutely necessary.

Ma and Pa's genjutsu could be a major problem.

@comicstooge: It could no arguing that. But team has a good-great chance of winning without the nine tails coming to save the day and morals on. Also another thing to consider Sasuke is more strategic than Naruto.

Good planning>>>no plan

Is it not possible Sasuke could get one-shotted by Frog Kata? Sure, he may dodge the punch, but Naruto can hit him with nature energy as the punch passes him like he did to one of the Pains.

@comicstooge: That's very likely but Sasuke won't charge in first Suigetsu and Jugo will and they both possess a higher durability than MS Sasuke without a susanoo and therefore Naruto's technique will be discovered before it's even a detriment to the team leader.

Potentially. There's a lot to consider here and I think a case could be made for either side.

Naruto is quicker than you might imagine. Him and Tobirama were the first ones to even notice a loophole in Obito's Gudou Dama. The likes of Sasuke and Minato were scratching their heads trying to get around Obito. Besides,

Shadow Clones > Any plan.

@lowlaville: @vintage_spiderman: This is Taka Sasuke he does not plan he just spams, keep this in character ppl. Naruto constantly plans regardless of the upgrade, hell most if not all his plans work. Any battle that does not have Naruto fighting Sasuke, Naruto thinks of ways to take down or surprise his enemy in creative and brilliant ways, the Zabuza battle and the battle against Pain shows this the most.Reverse Harem Jutsu, Sexy Justu in general is brilliant weaponizing fanservice. If we talking book smarts Sasuke >> Naruto, if strategy Naruto>>Sasuke.

Sasuke on the top of my head had only one good battle where he used he used his brain that was the fight against Deidara that was more a of tie really, he also wanted to question Deidara and we all know what happened. Also he is a sucky leader in the fight against Bee he went and try to fight then he got stabbed multiple times in the beginning of the fight, good strategy Sasuke. Naruto's base strategy is to send Shadow clones to test the waters and learn from them and then form a plan. Also Jugo does not have Sage mode he has Sage transformation which is to the Toad Sage mode, like as the Sharingan LvL 1 is to the MS,. Anyway since the op didn't block Toad Summons which I thought he did then Naruto stomps, ma and pa toad sage genjutsu gg. The summon tier not inculding Gedo Mazo and bijus, Toads > Slugs and Animal Path summons> giant clams> every other summon.

@jashro44: If this is after Madara becomes the Juubi jinchuriki becoming Juudara then yeah he can absorb senjutsu because being the jinchuriki to the Juubi gives ppl the Sages body similar to Naruto's Ashura Mode, which uses senjutsu.

@passingthrough545: How biased can you be wow! Sasuke has always been more strategic and tactical than naruto outside of a few instances like the Obito. Sasuke vs orochimaru was tactical, sasuke vs sound 4 was tactical, sasuke vs itachi(one of most tactical real ninja fights in naruto, sasuke vs deidara, sasuke vs the guy who absorbed chakra in chunin exams, sasuke vs naruto part 1 when he got Sharingan tomoe 3 estimated where naruto would be before he punched him and countered, there are multiple other examples of this but you get the point stop making false claims to make the mc naruto look superior in a situation where he's out gunned imo.

Edit: just because he spams a useful attack does not make him dumb or less strategic that's actually an intelligent thing to do use what works lol. Say if sasuke did not use amaterasu or susanoo how would he fight top tiers on equal footing?

@lowlaville: the clones are useful for learning on the fly but they do not fully substitute for good planning.

@vintage_spiderman: I'm biased? Even if I am biased at least I not at the level of NaruSakutard delusional or DMC Dante fanwankery unlike some people. In an argument I make it a point to be objective never subjective, this is annoyingly shaping up to be Superman vs Goku with Naruto being Superman and Sasuke being Goku though not as one-sided. I like Goku more then Superman though. Yes, I Iike Naruto more, but Sasuke really does not have anything that can beat Sage Naruto Ama, Susanno spam or otherwise, if this was a one on one this is lol stomp, this match is 8/10 in Naruto's favor, if he didn't had Sage Mode from the beginning then Sasuke and his team takes this 7/10.

Sasuke versus Orochimaru only worked because Orochi was sick which is a good strategy, against sound 4 however he only managed to trip Sakon/Ukon with a wire then he got his ass beat, Yoroi he just powered through managing to land a counter, Sasuke vs Itachi Itachi was going to let him win we all know this, Deidara was a tie it would been Sasuke's win when his team mates reach them then Deidara blew himself and Sasuke was out of chakra, he couldn't been able make a summon nor jump fast enough into Manda when the explosion happen, yet he magically plot armorly did. Seriously are we reading the same thing here? I got this from causal read.

Spamming Ama and Susanno are not good when you can't even compete with the top tiers Sasuke died three times at the Kage Summit, twice versus Bee, Naruto died only once against Pain who is above everybody that Sasuke fought up to then. Also he is beyond reckless, instead of waiting for Danzo and trying to ambush when Danzo leaves he instead busts in on the Gokages like a retard.

The deal with being good with strategies is they have to work and win you victories which according Sasuke's track record isn't much, hell most of the time he loses, Naruto has a better track record and most if not all his strategies work even against superior opponents, strategies are to close that gap in power and win you battles. Naruto is more adaptable and changes his plans on the fly. While Sasuke's strategic fights his opponents Deidara, Oroichimaru, and Itachi are stronger Sasuke tends to get them at their weakest which is form of strategy, though really can they considered victories? When you think hard on it, Itachi was going to let him win, Deidara suicided thus Sasuke couldn't interrogate him which is a loss no matter how you look at it, Orochimaru would be known as Sasukemaru if it wasn't for Itachi.Though I give Danzo one, though why he didn't just dispelled Izanagi because it is just a genjustu not a high level hard to break one like Tsukiyomi, or Kotoamatsukami instead of wasting all that time killing Danzo over and over again. Also he didn't need to spam big eye killing moves to win he could use other jutsu's he has a big pool to draw from yet does not use it Naruto has a much smaller pool and use his jutsu's much more effectively. Pain fight, Juubito fight, Third Raikage fight, Kaguya fight, Neiji Fight, Kiba Fight here Naruto was nerfed, Zabuza fight, Kazuku fight, hell even being eaten by a giant snake.

Also Naruto is outgunned Sage Art Rasenshruiken kills everybody team Taka also he still has access to the Toads if anybody is out gunned its team Taka, Rasenshruiken pretty much trumps any and all moves that are not fire justu. Sage mode has more strength feats compared to Raikage and senjutsu>ninjustu. Also Naruto's precog trumps everything they have. Toad Summons which Naruto can still use are op they fight biju and Rinnegan users and are senjutsu's users too.

I also take in consideration of their personality.

Naruto is a dumbass but weirdly smart, and unconventional.

Karin tsundere, a more horny and useful Part 1 Sakura.

Suigetsu rebellious and total dumbass.

Jugo the most useful one to help Sasuke there provided he does not go berserk which he will.

Sasuke is smart, skilled, but arrogant, and suffers from a inferiority/superioty complex.

Save your but Sasuke is better argument for when Friday comes around on the Sasuke vs Naruto thing okay?

Agree. lol