Naruto (The Last) vs Goku (Saiyan Saga) Physical Combat

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isaac_clarke

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#101  Edited By isaac_clarke

Outside that non-existent 'planetary' durability Goku's supposedly has, Naruto hits MUCH harder - enough to the point he would probably one-shot Goku.

@hulkage: Every single time? That's hardly true. Vegeta's Final Flash was pure concussion and it ripped Cell apart. By comparison, Goku's Kamehamehax4 was also pure concussion but didn't injure Vegeta at all. Tien's Tribeam against Nappa was explosive and did no damage, but Majin Vegeta's Final Explosion which was also explosive obliterated Majin Buu. It really depends on the technique and power level of the user, not whether it explodes or punches.

Don't forget Frieza's death-ball time-travel ki-blast.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@sun-wukong@juzacloud Congratulations. Two biased fanboys with a vendetta boner against Naruto agree. Slow clap deserved.

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Sun-Wukong

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#103  Edited By Sun-Wukong

Big Bang Attack

Vegeta

One of Vegeta's magnificent special attacks. A variety of ki blast, its effect greatly exceeds that of the previous Gyarik-ho.

Vol. 29 / Chp. 344It turns the Artificial Human, a formidable opponent, into scrap metal.

The Galick Gun was going to blow up the earth, this attack didn't blow up even a city or shown that radius, yet it's far beyond the galick gun. Ki control exist, even if it explodes, enjoy failing harder my downplaying friends.

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Sun-Wukong

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@isaac_clarke: @saint_of_origin:Guy who one-shots moon + guys, and finds taking planet level attacks not impressive vs Naruto lol not hard to figure out who wins in hand to hand combat.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@sun-wukong: Riiiight. I'm not going to debate with you. You're blacklisted. Which means to me, your opinion and posts hold no weight. The vendetta boner is real.

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Sun-Wukong

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#106  Edited By Sun-Wukong

@saint_of_origin: Excellent idea, I seen you're arguments, enjoy knowing you're physical durability bullshit never works, and enjoy know with you're retarded logic on physical durability, Naruto has building level durability. Sakura > Might Gai 8 gates lol who knew.

And nice post, need knowledgeable DBZ people LMFAO bahhahhahahaha you mean people that agree with you and do not say other ? you sound like a feminist

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Heaven_Sings7

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Naruto

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Saint_of_Origin

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@sun-wukong: Nick doesn't agree with me, yet I still wanted his input. Your point is flawed. And really? That feminist comment was uncalled for and inappropriate. You're posting in a thread where you're not welcome. Another comment like that will get a mod tagged.

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Pharoh_Atem

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DBZ vs threads are still an utter abomination.

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Sun-Wukong

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@saint_of_origin: No, you see it's this

I proved you physical durability =/= energy durability wrong, multiple times, Hulkage right now just tried to say they don't have planet durability, he ignored and tried to put the planet explosion on Frieza as PIS, since that has massive amounts of force and namek didn't involve we when it exploded, he failed big time on that, he has no proof, he is just desperate and resorting to downplaying logic trying to put DBZ below planet durability. He tried to use real life Chi as the same thing as DBZ chi, ignoring that attacks have force such as spirit bomb or final flash, which are Chi based attacks.

What points did you bring up ? Nothing, you are desperation hanging on to this physical durability non-sense yet doesn't even notice how badly it messes with fiction logic or even Naruto himself. Like I said with this, 8 Gate Gai is only building level, since over coming Madara durability and shield just means Madara is physical weak as shit.

You don't want anyone to disagree with this, when you on multiple occasions have been proven wrong about this whole physical durability rubbish as it makes no sense in the least bit.

Like I said, it makes no sense how a guy who can tank a planet level attack get hurt from continental or multi-continental strikes. That just means he has less then that durability. And black listing me, just shows you are unable to handle logic or a debate, knowing you got proven wrong.

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mysticmedivh

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@dccomicsrule2011: If I've noticed anything these past couple of weeks I'd have to say this sort of stuff tends to happen much more frequently in DB/Z/GT vs. Naruto threads.

Just my observation.

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JuzaCloud

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@dccomicsrule2011: If I've noticed anything these past couple of weeks I'd have to say this sort of stuff tends to happen much more frequently in DB/Z/GT vs. Naruto threads.

Just my observation.

How do you guys feel about the topic creator, creating a vs battle and then argues and "debates" in it. Since my time on here I've seen plenty of posters call people out for doing that. This guy does this in every thread he makes and he always debates for naruto. Most of his topics are naruto vs dbz. Just check him out. He cries if you disagree with him and then plays the victim. His new thing now is "blacklisting" posters who disagree with him.

Check out my earlier post in here, if you care. I've already debunked this whole "Ki isn't concussive force" nonsense they have created.

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mysticmedivh

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#113  Edited By mysticmedivh

@juzacloud: This may not be applicable to this thread or the OP since I didn't read every post, but this is what's clear in regards to OPs and debating in threads.

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flashback0180

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#114  Edited By flashback0180

@saint_of_origin: the mods made it pretty dam clear that you can't single out or blacklist users in your thread, when they banned loki_d.

So, no you can't restrict a user from posting in your thread (unless this is the rpg section) .

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JuzaCloud

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@juzacloud: This may not be applicable to this thread or the OP since I didn't read every post, but this is what's clear in regards to OPs and debating in threads.

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Cool. Then he is clear

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mysticmedivh

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@saint_of_origin: the mods made it pretty dam clear that you can't single out or blacklist users in your thread, when they're banned loki_d.

So, no you can't restrict a user from posting in your thread (unless this is the rpg section) .

Yeah, can't blacklist users from threads. As Flash says, his thread got locked (by God_Spawn), and before it was deleted too, he said this:

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@juzacloud Clear as in?

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JuzaCloud

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Saint_of_Origin

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#119  Edited By Saint_of_Origin

Aww poor Juza. Got his feathers ruffled because I called him out on his BS, so now he's crying. I'm sorry but I'm not debating for Naruto in any of the threads I make. I debate against anyone who says it's a stomp/one character doesn't have a chance. Or I debate for a particular concept. Such as the fact that in my opinion, energy blast durability and physical durability are not the same thing. But that's okay Juza. All you're doing is continuously proving to everyone else what several people already know about you.

@saren@sc@bumpyboo@god_spawn@wildvine Is there anything that can be done about people like Juza, Sun-Wukong, and Divell? They're honestly not bringing much to the table besides hostility. And I intentionally made this thread to avoid said hostility. I do not mind when others disagree with my views, as long as they present their points in a respectful manner. However, as these three have proven throughout this thread and many others, they cannot do this. If they have a point, it has to be made with hostility. I'll admit, I did make a mistake with "blacklisting" them. But this was only my attempt to try and defuse a potential flame war before it happened. I enjoy productive discussion and the people mentioned are almost directly counterproductive to that goal. Is there truly nothing that can be done besides "ignore them"? I really am trying to reach a consensus here, and the hostility present is honestly making that a little difficult to do.

@sun-wukong said:

@saint_of_origin: Excellent idea, I seen you're arguments, enjoy knowing you're physical durability bullshit never works, and enjoy know with you're retarded logic on physical durability, Naruto has building level durability. Sakura > Might Gai 8 gates lol who knew.

And nice post, need knowledgeable DBZ people LMFAO bahhahhahahaha you mean people that agree with you and do not say other ? you sound like a feminist

@juzacloud said:

How do you guys feel about the topic creator, creating a vs battle and then argues and "debates" in it. Since my time on here I've seen plenty of posters call people out for doing that. This guy does this in every thread he makes and he always debates for naruto. Most of his topics are naruto vs dbz. Just check him out. He cries if you disagree with him and then plays the victim. His new thing now is "blacklisting" posters who disagree with him.

Check out my earlier post in here, if you care. I've already debunked this whole "Ki isn't concussive force" nonsense they have created.

@divell said:

Goku owns Naruto anytime.

Base Goku vs Base Naruto: Naruto becomes Goku's bitch

SS1 Goku vs Sage Bijuu Mode full power Naruto: Naruto's pregnant.

@thevivas same could be said by Narutards you know?

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Saint_of_Origin

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Yeah, can't blacklist users from threads. As Flash says, his thread got locked (by God_Spawn), and before it was deleted too, he said this:

No Caption Provided

Didn't know it was against the rules. I wasn't "preventing them" from posting in my thread, considering I have no power to enforce such a rule, so much as attempting to stop their aggression before it happened. I updated the OP though. Blacklist removed.

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JuzaCloud

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Aww poor Juza. Got his feathers ruffled because I called him out on his BS, so now he's crying. I'm sorry but I'm not debating for Naruto in any of the threads I make. I debate against anyone who says it's a stomp/one character doesn't have a chance. Or I debate for a particular concept. Such as the fact that in my opinion, energy blast durability and physical durability are not the same thing. But that's okay Juza. All you're doing is continuously proving to everyone else what several people already know about you.

@saren@sc@bumpyboo@god_spawn@wildvine

Just let the mod know you said this as well.

"Congratulations. Two biased fanboys with a vendetta boner against Naruto agree"

I don't think you should be bringing up sexual insults to posters in your thread. Everyone else in here has been debating. Then you come along and ruin it when people have a different opinion. I also posted scans to disprove your logic. All you've done is insult people.

To the mods

None of my post in here are hostile as you can clearly read. This guy gets mad at people who disagree with him. As you can see he individually calls people out and tries to "blacklist" them. Now he wants to play the victim and bug you guys.

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mysticmedivh

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#122  Edited By mysticmedivh

@saint_of_origin: Openly blacklisting people just encourages them to post in your thread (the opposite of what you intended) when you think about it — a provocation.

If it gets bad then you should flag such posts. If it's consistent then just PM a mod. Otherwise, it's best you ignore it.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@saint_of_origin: Openly blacklisting people just encourages them to post in your thread (the opposite of what you intended) when you think about it — a provocation.

If it gets bad then you should flag such posts. If it's consistent then just PM a mod. Otherwise, it's best you ignore it.

My mistake.

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terry2012

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Goku wins.

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colliderz

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@nickzambuto said:

@mudamudamuda: And why is that? Ki blasts are nothing more than explosive and concussive force.

Ki blasts aren't concussive force, concussive force doesn't fry things.

Anyway, because this is fiction and different kinds of damage (Cutting/piercing/blunt force/energy blasts) require different forms of durability. DBZ is no exception.

Just what kind of reasoning is that?A nuke has concussive force due to its explosion but it also fries things up due to the intense heat that released from the explosion.That statement doesn't makes any sense at all.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@mudamudamuda said:
@nickzambuto said:

@mudamudamuda: And why is that? Ki blasts are nothing more than explosive and concussive force.

Ki blasts aren't concussive force, concussive force doesn't fry things.

Anyway, because this is fiction and different kinds of damage (Cutting/piercing/blunt force/energy blasts) require different forms of durability. DBZ is no exception.

Just what kind of reasoning is that?A nuke has concussive force due to its explosion but it also fries things up due to the intense heat that released from the explosion.That statement doesn't makes any sense at all.

A nuke a good example. Nuke doesn't just have concussive force, but also heat. Ki blasts transfer enough energy to destroy planets and all, but doesn't mean they can match nukes in temperature.

The simplest basis of 'physical strikes =/= ki blasts' is... well, any physical hit in the series, portrayal of their physical fights as opposed to ki fights.

The best striking feats in the manga are along the lines of (isn't the best, but pretty good):

While actually impressive in their own right, they've never, quite literally never shown even a millionth of what ki blasts did early in the series.

We know akira is familiar with the concept since his other protagonists have insane feats in the department:

- this is the level people assume z characters reach, while the author quite clearly depicts otherwise.

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MudaMudaMuda

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#127  Edited By MudaMudaMuda

@colliderz said:

Just what kind of reasoning is that?A nuke has concussive force due to its explosion but it also fries things up due to the intense heat that released from the explosion.That statement doesn't makes any sense at all.

There is just one tiny little flaw in your reasoning : Nukes are well... a nuclear reaction.

The heat produced by the nuke is the result of a waste of energy (kinda like how your light bulb gets hot after a while) and the shock waves (which are what causes the concussive force) are the result of air being pushed aside due to the detonation velocity. Ki blasts aren't chemical reactions they are purely energy.

Of course this doesn't mean that DBZ charters are incapable of using them as concussive force, heat, cutting or piercing. It's just that each of these attacks generally only displays one kind of damage at a time.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@leo-343: Who dat

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RandomSid82

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@colliderz said:

Just what kind of reasoning is that?A nuke has concussive force due to its explosion but it also fries things up due to the intense heat that released from the explosion.That statement doesn't makes any sense at all.

There is just one tiny little flaw in your reasoning : Nukes are well... a nuclear reaction.

The heat produced by the nuke is the result of a waste of energy (kinda like how your light bulb gets hot after a while) and the shock waves (which are what causes the concussive force) are the result of air being pushed aside due to the detonation velocity. Ki blasts aren't chemical reaction and don't cause shock waves, they are purely energy.

Of course this doesn't mean that DBZ charters are incapable of using them as concussive force, heat, cutting or piercing. It's just that each of these attacks generally only displays one kind of damage at a time.

I have only one problem with your statement. The Ki blasts DO cause shock waves. It's been shown several times in the series. But regardless they have pretty impressive feats of physical durability as well. Being kicked or punched through several mountains and getting up like it was nothing. Later in the series they have more, then there is the infamous Battle of The Gods in which Goku punched through King Kai's planet, which as we all know is much more dense and therefore more durable than Earth.

At this point in the series though, Naruto may take it. Although it does speak volumes that it had to be literally beginning of DBZ Goku vs End of series Naruto to give him the win.

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Saint_of_Origin

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#132  Edited By Saint_of_Origin

@leo-343: Okay he stomps Naruto. But not Itachi.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@leo-343: Lord Itachi cannot fall, so I am inclined to agree

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MudaMudaMuda

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@randomsid:

Although it does speak volumes that it had to be literally beginning of DBZ Goku vs End of series Naruto to give him the win.

I don't see the big deal with that. People put characters against the most suitable version of other characters. DBZ Vs Naruto is not an exception here.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@randomsid: Saiyan Saga Goku is NOT BoZ Goku. BoZ Goku would get stomped by Saibamen. Saiyan Saga wouldn't.

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Hulkage

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@sun-wukong:

"Still waiting for what ? You got nothing man, I debunked everything you said, you are just ignoring power scaling,statements from Frieza and Whis and how Ki works and such just to argue a point, if you want to be illogical and say Frieza with no Ki + Cut in half > SSGSS Vegeta then go ahead. Keep downplaying buddy. Get you no where with me."

My problem is that you ignore certain aspects of the series and try to hand pick feats to make characters seem more impressive than they actually are. You claim Vegeta died because he can't breathe in space, yet he seemed to be breathing on the moon just fine while training to reach SSJ. Freiza was the only one not fazed by a planetary blast, Buu and Mystic Gohan, two of the most powerful people in the verse, were even blown to bits. So either that's a Freiza exclusive event, or a huge inconsistency. You are coming up with fan fics about potency and when I present canonical fact you claim I'm downplaying.

And what's worse, @juzacloud provided a feat that further proved my point and you unwittingly went along with it. SSJ2 Gohan got hit with a blast that was nowhere near planetary and once it exploded, the concussive force broke his arm. Many people have tried to explain this to you but you still continue to handpick feats. @mudamudamuda had tried to explain it to you as well. Come at me with feats, not scaling and what not because as much as users here on comicvine like to make fun of @Loki_D and @Kirbstomp, at least they brought scans, data book pages, and other forms of evidence to back up their claims. You can't even do that

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deactivated-5c531e53b02be

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It makes me angry when people are like "OH look another nurfed Goku battle!" Well you kind of have to nerf him he's a huge ass pull next movie hell probably get 3 new super sayain modes.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@unrelenting: I think it's less of them actually saying they have a problem with that, and more that they have a problem with my battles. So don't mind them. If you look at the kind of stuff they post, they struggle to debate in a civil manner without letting their animosity shine through. That alone should invalidate any "complaints" they have about this battle

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flashback0180

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@unrelenting:

I doubt there is going to be a movie soon, There is a official series in July. The new movie is going to be syncing with the new anime , so they at least need to run the anime for a decent amount of episodes , about a season. so 1 year (anime run)++ 3 , we are looking atr 3-4 years for the next movie.

@hulkage said:

@sun-wukong:

"Still waiting for what ? You got nothing man, I debunked everything you said, you are just ignoring power scaling,statements from Frieza and Whis and how Ki works and such just to argue a point, if you want to be illogical and say Frieza with no Ki + Cut in half > SSGSS Vegeta then go ahead. Keep downplaying buddy. Get you no where with me."

My problem is that you ignore certain aspects of the series and try to hand pick feats to make characters seem more impressive than they actually are. You claim Vegeta died because he can't breathe in space, yet he seemed to be breathing on the moon just fine while training to reach SSJ. Freiza was the only one not fazed by a planetary blast, Buu and Mystic Gohan, two of the most powerful people in the verse, were even blown to bits. So either that's a Freiza exclusive event, or a huge inconsistency. You are coming up with fan fics about potency and when I present canonical fact you claim I'm downplaying.

And what's worse, @juzacloud provided a feat that further proved my point and you unwittingly went along with it. SSJ2 Gohan got hit with a blast that was nowhere near planetary and once it exploded, the concussive force broke his arm. Many people have tried to explain this to you but you still continue to handpick feats. @mudamudamuda had tried to explain it to you as well. Come at me with feats, not scaling and what not because as much as users here on comicvine like to make fun of @Loki_D and @Kirbstomp, at least they brought scans, data book pages, and other forms of evidence to back up their claims. You can't even do that

No Caption Provided

well i wont go as far as claiming died by lack of air, but using PIS is the worst kind of lowballing

1>Well first off we don't know how the planet exploded.

2> Knowing Toie it's probably Cinematic induced stupidity .

3> that looks like a delayed reaction , we can see Freezas PURPLE AURA surrounding the explosion anhd spreading throughout space.

4>We don't know how big the explosion was.

The damage vegeta got was from freezas energy not earths.

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midnightdragon18

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@hulkage: that was filler,vegeta CAN'T breathe in space.

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RandomSid82

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#142  Edited By RandomSid82

@saint_of_origin said:

@randomsid: Saiyan Saga Goku is NOT BoZ Goku. BoZ Goku would get stomped by Saibamen. Saiyan Saga wouldn't.

Saiyan Saga Goku is almost the very beginning of DBZ, the only thing before it is the Raditz fight. It's not the beginning of the Dragon Ball series, but it is the beginning of DBZ. And technically, the Raditz fight was still part of the Saiyan Saga, was just the beginning of it.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@randomsid: But the difference in power is phenomenal between THAT Goku, and the one used here. So you saying "It says a lot to use BoZ" is still flawed based on the fact that this Goku dwarfs BoZ Goku by a large margin.

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deactivated-5c531e53b02be

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@flashback0180: Their making a new movie right now.

No Caption Provided

And their sure fire idea was.........Bringing back Freiza.

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RandomSid82

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#145  Edited By RandomSid82
@saint_of_origin said:

@randomsid: But the difference in power is phenomenal between THAT Goku, and the one used here. So you saying "It says a lot to use BoZ" is still flawed based on the fact that this Goku dwarfs BoZ Goku by a large margin.

No, the power level is NOT that big of a difference. He gained roughly 9 times his power from the Raditz fight to his fight with Vegeta. A phenomenal difference would be the Vegeta fight to his fight with Frieza.

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flashback0180

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@unrelenting: hmm.... thats kinda old news, ROF has been released like 3 weeks ago, everyone knew about it like last feb. It's because ROF was such a success that Toie wants to create a new anime continuing from Buu saga.

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Saint_of_Origin

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@randomsid: 5 times? Really? -Maybe- in base but we include KK, as it's an ability he gained that made him stronger. He does dwarf Goku BoZ because just KK is 10x BoZ, X3 is 15x, and X4 is 20x. And that's going by your estimate. So yeah, the power difference is phenomenal.

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@randomsid: 5 times? Really? -Maybe- in base but we include KK, as it's an ability he gained that made him stronger. He does dwarf Goku BoZ because just KK is 10x BoZ, X3 is 15x, and X4 is 20x. And that's going by your estimate. So yeah, the power difference is phenomenal.

I wasn't including Kaio Ken, and he only went to Kaio Ken x4 in the Vegeta fight. If we use Kaio Ken then he was roughly 33 times stronger. Still when you compare that to the next saga when he went from a power level of 32,000 at Kaio Ken X4 to a power level of 150,000,000 at Super Saiyan the difference is MUCH more phenomenal as it is 4687 times the power level. Even just using his highest Kaio Ken during Vegeta fight vs highest Kaio Ken during Frieze fight its a much more phenomenal difference. At Kaio Ken X20 during the Frieze fight he had a power level of 60,000,000 which is still 1875 times more powerful than his most powerful during the Vegeta fight. So calling a mere increase of 9 times without Kaio Ken or 33 times with Kaio Ken a phenomenal difference is really not true at all.

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Hulkage

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@flashback0180: How is it PIS when it's been consistently portrayed that the charterers can't survive planetary level attacks. Buu couldn't, Mystic Gohan couldn't, King Kai couldn't, PSSJ Goku couldn't, Goten couldn't, Trunks couldn't, SSJ2 Goku couldn't, so how is it PIS when it's consistently been shown that they're glass cannons.