namor vs black panther
Well not a lot of people respect the character for a multitude of reasons that I hope we wont have to get into. He is a, Namor, Captain America, Ironman, Xavier, Blackbolt, Dr. Strange, Dr. Doom, etc level character yet few people seem to understand this simply because he hasn't had a decent modern day interpretation other than in Volume 3. He also doesn't directly involve himself with America in the comics which gives him few situations to use as comparison and he doesn't have nearly as many titles as most of the people I mentioned above.
If you can't see him as capable of defeating or stalemating or hell, even putting up a fight against an opponent like Namor he respects and sees him as a total equal, who has fought with him to a draw in cannon more than once, then your seeing it wrong in my opinion. I'm sorry if I don't follow the majority opinion when I think its wrong, however many people say "Namor" without giving a valid, reasonable reason as to why they feel that way don't matter.
I can also see how Namor can win this fight but I am currently arguing for T'Challa because unlike most apparently, I think he can win too. All i;m asking is that you get off your high horse and address the arguement as its been presented. If you don't think T'Challa stands a chance then at least give a sentence as to why you don't think so. Otherwise you just sound like your picking fights.
T'Challa stands 1% of chances of winning the fight,this 1% if Namor gets bored and leaves,the other 99% he gets his @ss kicked
@TheMaskedEidolon:
Panther doesnt stand a chance because Namor is much stronger,faster,can fly,can shoot eletricit and is durable to the point BP cant scratch him
" @Vance Astro: Well not a lot of people respect the character for a multitude of reasons that I hope we wont have to get into. He is a, Namor, Captain America, Ironman, Xavier, Blackbolt, Dr. Strange, Dr. Doom, etc level character yet few people seem to understand this simply because he hasn't had a decent modern day interpretation other than in Volume 3. He also doesn't directly involve himself with America in the comics which gives him few situations to use as comparison and he doesn't have nearly as many titles as most of the people I mentioned above. If you can't see him as capable of defeating or stalemating or hell, even putting up a fight against an opponent like Namor he respects and sees him as a total equal, who has fought with him to a draw in cannon more than once, then your seeing it wrong in my opinion. I'm sorry if I don't follow the majority opinion when I think its wrong, however many people say "Namor" without giving a valid, reasonable reason as to why they feel that way don't matter. I can also see how Namor can win this fight but I am currently arguing for T'Challa because unlike most apparently, I think he can win too. All i;m asking is that you get off your high horse and address the arguement as its been presented. If you don't think T'Challa stands a chance then at least give a sentence as to why you don't think so. Otherwise you just sound like your picking fights. "Stop writing all these paragraphs.Black Panther already lost.There's nothing to say.If you are arguing for T'Challa provide something that isn't PIS or related to this fight.Nothing you or Umbraa posted meets those requirements and I explained why.The fact that you think Black Panther is on the level of the characters you just named alone makes me feel like I should stop responding to you altogether in any thread.I've heard nothing out of you but reaching from day one.It's old now.I'm done taking you seriously.How are you going to say the people who think Namor will win provided nothing valid when neither has anyone who thinks Black Panther will win.Out of context scans and overestimations aren't valid arguments.
"T'Challa stands 1% of chances of winning the fight,this 1% if Namor gets bored and leaves,the other 99% he gets his @ss kicked
@TheMaskedEidolon: Panther doesnt stand a chance because Namor is much stronger,faster,can fly,can shoot eletricit and is durable to the point BP cant scratch him "
I disagree, flight speed and fighting speed are two different things. I think that Black Panther's combat speed is slightly superior to Namor's. They both have shown superhuman reflexes so thats a moot point, Black Panther's shown significantly(imo) better dexterity and agility, and has better fighting speed feats.
Also Namor cant really fire electric blasts without absorbing aome kind of energy first. Anything he would produce on his own would be easily avoided or endured by BP. His endurance is huge but I think BP's energy daggers set on kill could pierce Namor's skin, and BP's claws could pierce the softer parts of Namor (eyes, mouth, underarms etc). BP also carries around sounic/vibration manipulating gadgets. These aren't really shown consistantly though, but of all the things hes used involving sonics, all would be effective against Namor.
Thank you for sharing your point of view and bringing actual reasons up. I think T'Challa can at least win 5/10 if not 6/10.
k.
I do believe he is on those characters levels. They acknowledge it in Cannon. The marvel staff acknowledges it constantly. The creators of the character T'Challa, Lee and Kirby, acknowledge it and built this level of ability into the original character. The only people who don't seem to share this understanding of the characters place in the Marvel Universe are the readers who see him poorly represented or a lack of representation on his part. Every amazing feat he does is labeled PIS by the community because of peoples persistant lack of knowledge about the character. (The SS armbar thing was kinda silly though.)
You can continue to be in denial about the capabilities of a character you pretend to support, but I will continue to argue for him based on everything hes shown himself capable of over the years that gets ignored due to reader bias'.
I do believe he is on those characters levels.I know and that's why i'm ignoring you for now on.
T'Challa loses the fight. The fact that he had dust to sap Namor dry was a one-time thing. He doesn't normally carry that. In their second encounter, Namor had been out of a water for a while. In any case, T'Challa would only win if he's prepped. I don't think energy daggers would work, since Namor has electrical currents running through his body, not to mention the fact that he was fast enough to deflect them.
" I love how theMaskedEidolon thinks Panther is on the same level as Captain America, Iron Man, Doctor Strange and Black Bolt, when they themselves are completely different tiers. "Out of that, he's only equal to Captain America (before his upgrade) and is as smart as Tony Stark. Everything else.... Bullsh!t. LOL.
I was talking about them all being conceptual equals. They are the best of the best the human race has to offer(I kinda count Black Bolt as human-like)
They all have status power that goes beyond their immediate abilities. They all comand forces that are beyond the normal scope of their ability. Like Captain America's ability to inspire and become the symbol of good demanding the respect of the entire superhero community. Tony is similar and has(had) access to the entire american military/technology when he led SHIELD. T'Challa is the same in his ability to command an entire nation of Wakanda and has huge support in the superhero community in America.
My point is these are all Illuminati class characters, people who in some form actually control the world. I'm making the argument that T'Challa is among these people and as such he demands respect. He should be and has been written with the capability to accomplish feats that extend beyond his super powers. He has the potential to defeat every one of the people mentioned, as they all have the potential to defeat the other members as well, it all depends on whos writing and what the story will dictate. This is what I mean when I says hes on par with them. I'm not saying his superhuman body and vibranium suit means hes stronger than them.
With that said, my reasons for why he is capable of winning this fight in this scenario are,
1. He can withstand a few hits from Namor.
2. He is arguably faster in a H2H fight - reflexes are on par or better, and dextery/agility is better.
3. He is capable of harming Namor - claws to the eyes, mouth, or throat and energy daggers set on kill. Or whatever other random vibration/sonics device hes carrying on him.
4. He is a lot smarter/tactical in both the science aspect as well as combat experience.
5. Doesn't always fight head on, is capable of hiding from Namors enhanced vision.
"Or whatever other random vibration/sonics device hes carrying on him.He doesn't normally carry these devices. He only uses them when fighting against Klaw.
He usually has something involving sonics in his modern interpretations. He never really uses any of his gadgets though since hes usually capable enough without them. I'ed imagine he was armed with similar things as Shuri and when she was getting ready to go out as BP they finally gave the reader a list of the actual gadgets she carries. I know they never really did anything like that for T'Challa but I don't think its a stretch to assume he had access to the same or similar gadgets.
Thats only one of two or three ways that I listed that he could damage Namor.
" 1. He can withstand a few hits from Namor. 2. He is arguably faster in a H2H fight - reflexes are on par or better, and dextery/agility is better. 3. He is capable of harming Namor - claws to the eyes, mouth, or throat and energy daggers set on kill. Or whatever other random vibration/sonics device hes carrying on him. 4. He is a lot smarter/tactical in both the science aspect as well as combat experience. 5. Doesn't always fight head on, is capable of hiding from Namors enhanced vision. "1) If Namor wanted to, he could just grab T'Challa and submit him, even with the suit on. Iron Man nearly did it with a chokehold.
2) Even with better agility, Namor could still tag him.
3) Claws to his eyes and mouth are good strategy. The energy daggers may not have an effect, since Namor has electrical currents running throughout his body. He could possibly be immune to the daggers. He's even shown to be fast enough to block them.
4) Agreed.
5) Agreed.
" I was talking about them all being conceptual equals. They are the best of the best the human race has to offer(I kinda count Black Bolt as human-like) They all have status power that goes beyond their immediate abilities. They all comand forces that are beyond the normal scope of their ability. Like Captain America's ability to inspire and become the symbol of good demanding the respect of the entire superhero community. Tony is similar and has(had) access to the entire american military/technology when he led SHIELD. T'Challa is the same in his ability to command an entire nation of Wakanda and has huge support in the superhero community in America. My point is these are all Illuminati class characters, people who in some form actually control the world. I'm making the argument that T'Challa is among these people and as such he demands respect. He should be and has been written with the capability to accomplish feats that extend beyond his super powers. He has the potential to defeat every one of the people mentioned, as they all have the potential to defeat the other members as well, it all depends on whos writing and what the story will dictate. This is what I mean when I says hes on par with them. I'm not saying his superhuman body and vibranium suit means hes stronger than them. "So you're saying what you said had nothing to do with the battle? You were just fanboying... Ok.
" @Static Shock: He usually has something involving sonics in his modern interpretations. He never really uses any of his gadgets though since hes usually capable enough without them. I'ed imagine he was armed with similar things as Shuri and when she was getting ready to go out as BP they finally gave the reader a list of the actual gadgets she carries. I know they never really did anything like that for T'Challa but I don't think its a stretch to assume he had access to the same or similar gadgets. Thats only one of two or three ways that I listed that he could damage Namor. "Like I said, T'Challa doesn't normally carry sonic weapons. He's only used such devices against Klaw, and at times, had to go get them and add them to his arsenel whenever he was fighting Klaw. Even in modern interpretations, he doesn't normally carry these devices. They aren't a part of his standard equipment. Imagining that he was armed with similar devices as Shuri isn't a good assumption to make, because he was never portrayed with any of weapons she uses. All of that stuff was brand new, and exclusive to her.
1. He can, but theres no guarentee that he always will. Just as theres no guarentee T'Challa stabs Namor's eyes out, though i'ed argue its easier for T'Challa to get Namor in the eyes than it is for Namor to bear hug T'Challa.
2. Right and he can take a few of those tags as well as tag Namor a few times too, theyre even here with a slight edge in favor of BP imo.
3. The daggers might not work but again, we can't know for sure. I don't actually know what type of energy the daggers use (I assume photons) and Namor rarely absorbs things that arent electricity.
4. Thanks
5. Thanks
Like I said, I can see Namor winning this theres no doubt in my mind that hes capable of it. However, a lot of people don't seem to think BP has a chance either and that I disagree with. I think he has a decent chance even without prep.
@AtPhantom:
That part of the arguement was to address the fact that so many people on this website have constructed a conceptualization of the character T'Challa as a B-List or low A-List character. If people continue to think of him as such then I wont have any chance of convincing them that he is capable of beating people like Namor. No matter how much proof that he is capable of winning this fight if you do not see him as an equal to Namor you wont see what i'm trying to prove with the scans. Ie. Vance Astro. He most likely doesn't see T'Challa as a high class character, and so even though hes looking at cannon proof that T'Challa can put up a fight at LEAST, he will ignore this fact and claim Namor without any reason or logic supporting his claim and then believe hes justified in doing so because "T'Challa isn't in Namor's league" or w/e.
This didn't have to go to 4 pages.Black Panther without prep doesn't stand a chance against Namor.In a random encounter Namor will let him have it every time.
Also its worth mentioning that Namor deflected the energy daggers with his wrist guards wonder woman style. He didn't really dodge them in that particular scan. Not to say he couldn't dodge them ever, but just that he needed to deflect them when they were on stun mode might be telling. If he was invulnerable to them why would he bother to dodge or deflect them? Just something to consider, it's probably not enough proof to make the claim that the daggers can hurt him.
I'll concede the point about vibration tech and other gadgets, it was just an assumption I made. I'm probably wrong about him carrying anything other than his Komoyo Card and daggers regularly other than his suit/boots/anti-metal claws. If this is what he carries at a minimum I still see a lot of ways for T'Challa to win this fight. Namor can win of course but I dont think hes going to do it easily or as straight forward as some of you seem to think.
@Vance Astro:
I heard you the first 9 times. If your not going to add anything why post?
" @Static Shock:1) If Iron Man was easily able to get T'Challa in a chokehold, I don't see why Namor couldn't do the same.
1. He can, but theres no guarentee that he always will. Just as theres no guarentee T'Challa stabs Namor's eyes out, though i'ed argue its easier for T'Challa to get Namor in the eyes than it is for Namor to bear hug T'Challa.
2. Right and he can take a few of those tags as well as tag Namor a few times too, theyre even here with a slight edge in favor of BP imo.
3. The daggers might not work but again, we can't know for sure. I don't actually know what type of energy the daggers use (I assume photons) and Namor rarely absorbs things that arent electricity.
4. Thanks
5. Thanks
Like I said, I can see Namor winning this theres no doubt in my mind that hes capable of it. However, a lot of people don't seem to think BP has a chance either and that I disagree with. I think he has a decent chance even without prep.
2) Tag Namor with what, exactly?
3) There have been times the daggers did exhibit electricity. One instance was when he fought Hydro Man.
" @Vance Astro said:"Black Panther without prep doesn't stand a chance against Namor. In a random encounter Namor will let him have it every time. "This. "
1. Chokehold is different from the bearhug he'll need to put on T'Challa. A Chokehold leaves T'Challa arms free and that just makes it easier for T'Challa to gouge out his eyes. Also Namor is going to have a harder time detecting T'Challa if he approaches this battle in stealth. Ironman can just use his scanners to detect body heat or something Namor has no such ability.
2. Anti-metal claws destroying his wrist shield things, and stabbing/hitting his soft spots/pressure points.
3. That was a specific setting in the Hydro-man thing wasn't it? Maybe they use more than one kind of energy?
" @Static Shock: 1. Chokehold is different from the bearhug he'll need to put on T'Challa. A Chokehold leaves T'Challa arms free and that just makes it easier for T'Challa to gouge out his eyes. Also Namor is going to have a harder time detecting T'Challa if he approaches this battle in stealth. Ironman can just use his scanners to detect body heat or something Namor has no such ability.Well, those White Gorilla things were able to get T'Challa in a bearhug once, and they are nowhere near as fast or strong as Namor is portrayed. As far as using stealth goes, there wasn't a particular setting specified to make stealth possible.
@TheMaskedEidolon said:
"3. That was a specific setting in the Hydro-man thing wasn't it? Maybe they use more than one kind of energy? "
Possibly.
True. The gorillas grabbing him is just one of those things that make sense for the story moments, like how Flash can get hit by things when he really shouldn't ever.
@Son_of_Magnus: Stop posting
See I can do it too!
" @Static Shock:I don't think so. T'Challa isn't too fast to get grabbed.
True. The gorillas grabbing him is just one of those things that make sense for the story moments
I just caught wind of this. Not sure why you think Black Panther can legitimately fight Namor out of water, when Namor has fought people who are more powerful than T'Challa (while Namor was out of water). That fight they had in Priest's run was obviously PIS. I can deal with Black Panther surviving an attack from Namor (because of the suit), but Black Panther being able to knock Namor of his feet with a punch like that (when Namor is still around Class 50+, out of water with considerable superhuman durability) is kinda iffy. I say that because Namor was soaking wet from the rain earlier in the issue, and T'Challa fought him that same night within the same issue. With that said, Namor's strength should still be close to Class 100, due to the fact that he was in contact with water prior to the fight."
Now go away. "
Also, the dust that you are referring to has only been used by Azzari the Wise and Shuri. I can agree that T'Challa has access to the dust that could sap Namor's strength, but T'Challa have never had it on hand as his initial equipment and has never shown to use it on Namor in a random encounter. Thus, he would have to be prepped to have it with him. In a regular encounter, T'Challa may not have it on hand. The fact that T'Challa attempted to fight Namor with out it in Priest's run is probably an indication that he didn't have it with him, and if he did, he would have used it. If he has used it before, please tell me when he has.
And yet they are scans. You less you can post scan showing otherwise it doesn't matter. Insconsistent or not...on what ever level. Your opinion does not change what happend in the comics...note that during that issue I believe Tom Brevoort was the editor...
Tom Brevoort > then comicvine posters.
" And yet they are scans. You less you can post scan showing otherwise it doesn't matter. Insconsistent or not...on what ever level. Your opinion does not change what happend in the comics...note that during that issue I believe Tom Brevoort was the editor... Tom Brevoort > then comicvine posters. "It's not his opinion.It's fact that Black Panther cannot beat Namor.Everything in that happens in comics isn't law.I know you're not dumb enough to believe that Black Panther can logically even hurt Namor.So that's enough with the bullsh#t.
I told myself that I was not going to post here...so this is the last.
But yes he can...just like Batman can hurt Superman...T'challa can hurt Namor...in the same manner...with his "Desert suns" and the Dust that can strip him dry of all water...which has been shown more then once...and the fact that he carries it with him, just like Bats does with Kryponite.
sorry we have different opinions...but that is all they are opinions...unless you get a job for Marvel...what they say and do goes. So no amout of posting your opinion will change this fact.
Cheers.
Just because it happened doesn't make it valid. Tom Brevoort obviously wasn't doing his job right. It's PIS, anyway you look at it. Marvel can write and say what they want, but that doesn't mean that they are right all the time. It's also a shame that Marvel would never allow T'Challa to beat Namor anyway...." And yet they are scans. You less you can post scan showing otherwise it doesn't matter. Insconsistent or not...on what ever level. Your opinion does not change what happend in the comics...note that during that issue I believe Tom Brevoort was the editor... Tom Brevoort > then comicvine posters. "
Be out then.Anyone who thinks Namor would lose to Black Panther doesn't deserve to post here.Nobody here accepts Batman hurting Supes just like we won't do it for T'Challa and Namor.Your a fanboy and get mad at people for not accept your fanboyish logic.That's sad." I told myself that I was not going to post here...so this is the last. But yes he can...just like Batman can hurt Superman...T'challa can hurt Namor...in the same manner...with his "Desert suns" and the Dust that can strip him dry of all water...which has been shown more then once...and the fact that he carries it with him, just like Bats does with Kryponite. sorry we have different opinions...but that is all they are opinions...unless you get a job for Marvel...what they say and do goes. So no amout of posting your opinion will change this fact. Cheers. "
LOL. Batman needs Kryptonite to hurt Superman. He can't hurt him without it. T'Challa has never used the Desert Suns and the Dust on Namor, and he doesn't have prep here, so why would he have it? Only Azzari and Shuri have shown to carry and use that because they were prepped for Namor. Where is it stated that T'Challa carries this item? If we've never seen him use it, how in God's name is it a fact that he carries it with him? I've never seen him use it before. You cannot compare him to Batman, because Batman has actually used his Kryptonite ring.But yes he can...just like Batman can hurt Superman...T'challa can hurt Namor...in the same manner...with his "Desert suns" and the Dust that can strip him dry of all water...which has been shown more then once...and the fact that he carries it with him, just like Bats does with Kryponite.
Judging by the fact that you are unable to tell me when T'Challa has carried the Desert Suns or Dust in his arsenal, but make excuses for a PIS showing (while going against what's consistent for Namor's character) and make up things about T'Challa instead, you obviously cannot back any and all of what you're saying. Your entire argument is unsupported and delusional, backed by your opinions and emotions. If you thinking never posting here again makes you feel better, then that's fine. It's only because no one here is willing to tolerate or feed your fanboy love for Black Panther. Try to stay over at Hudlin Entertainment, if you can. :P
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