Naked Snake vs Solid Snake

No prep

Both young

Fight takes place in Gotham

Both get 10 mintues to pick out gear

To the death

VS

What about Limp Snake?

I think this has already been done and Naked Snake wins due to better feats.

If you play Twin Snakes and Son of Liberty in hard or the extreme, the only way you can progress in the story is to AVOID all sentries. If you alert them, it is impossible to fight them.

@MrDirector786 said:

@tron_bonne said:

If you play Twin Snakes and Son of Liberty in hard or the extreme, the only way you can progress in the story is to AVOID all sentries. If you alert them, it is impossible to fight them.

That's gameplay mechanics. In the story itself, they weren't very competent at all.

@demifiend said:

@MrDirector786 said:

I think this has already been done and Naked Snake wins due to better feats.

nah, solid already beat naked twice,

When he was an old man. Going by his feats from MGS3 and comparing them to Snake from MGS1 and MGS2, Big Boss has better feats.

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

This has nothing to do with anything, but what is up with Metal Gear for the NES? Horrible game, and I hear it doesn't even have metal gear in it?

Yeah, Metal Gear for the NES was bad. Kojima actually had nothing to do with the game at all and he himself also said it was a bad game that was unfaithful to his original creation. Instead of a metal gear, you have to destroy some super-computer which is apparently building the metal gear.

Finally I found you, I want to thank you

solid snake has already beaten big boss... its in the books

@Deranged Midget said:

What's with all the different version of Snake?

Big Boss

Naked snake : irradiated at bikini atoll/ The boss's apprentice

Clones

Liquid Snake: received naked snakes dominate genes

Solid Snake: received naked snakes recessive genes

Solidus Snake: Unaltered perfect clone

@MrDirector786 said:

Naked Snake still wins because his feats are better.

I agree with you... on paper Big Boss would wipe the floor with solid snake... I think big boss shoul've won but he didn't.

Although Solid Snake is impressive in his own right by his own feats, i'd still have to say that Naked Snake would take the majority. Even at the end of MGS4, Big Boss humbled Snake pretty damn fast in CQC. Solid Snake may have defeated the older Big Boss in the Metal Gear games, but a younger Naked Snake--someone who took down The Boss, should be able to take Solid Snake.

@ssejllenrad said:

Why the hell are some people still picking the more badass, much cooler, deeper personality (IMO) Big Boss? He was clearly beaten by a fairly inexperienced Solid Snake (twice?). The only time I think Big Boss won was against that Old Solid Snake in the end of MGS4. And both were no longer at their peaks at that time. As much as I like the character of the original Snake, I must say he losses here.

He was also a few decades older. 'This is both at their peak. So them not being at their peaks in previous battles, either one or the other and even both are irrelevant to the battle at hand.

BUMP

Heres my two cents

Solid wins this IMO. You guys say Naked has better feats? Let's take a look at what Solid Snake (or Superman Snake, as he was in this game) did in the Twin Snakes.

-Superman Snake will jump and prop himself up on a ceiling corner when talking with the DARPA Chief to avoid a prison guard instead of hiding behind a wall (Superman Snake can stick to walls)

-Superman Snake will perform backflips to avoid Ocelot's bullet

-Superman Snake will perform slight-of-hand magic tricks when Kenneth Baker forgets Meryl's Codec frequency (and point a gun at him in frustration)

-Superman Snake beat Cyborg Ninja in a fist fight. Mind you, Gray Fox was strong enough to lift up Rex's leg, and fast enough to dodge bullets. (Regular Snake actually did this to)

-Superman Snake casually pitches a grenade into the M1 Tanks cannon (accurately, mind you) from 50+ yards to take it out

-Superman Snake will watch in amazement for 15 seconds while Wolf's Sniper dot is on Meryl (worth mentioning)

-Superman Snake destroys flying wide-flange beams on an imminent path to collision with a single grenade

-Superman Snake will leap into the air, land on a launched missile, and backflip off of said missile and fire his own missile, all for the sake of higher ground clearance

-Superman Snake will, instead of traditional sneaking, cartwheel over doors (he has a 10' vertical leap)

-Superman Snake will, upon Rex's activation, attempt to subdue it with karate

Now what did Naked Snake do thats so great? He beat the Boss? Ok,

Old Snake (OLD) took on giant, super advanced AI Geckos equipped with machineguns and snaring wires that not even Raiden could brake through. These kinds of things would be a boss in Peace Walker, but in MGS4 there just as common as foot soldiers. (Ok maybe there a BIT more rare but you get my point).

Naked Snake took on GRU soldiers

Solid Snake took on super advanced, highly trained FOXHOUND soldiers, fitted with nanomachines and gene therapy.

Not to mention Big Boss actually trained Solid Snake, and if the Boss is any indication, the student always surpasses the master.

@progenitor said:

Although Solid Snake is impressive in his own right by his own feats, i'd still have to say that Naked Snake would take the majority. Even at the end of MGS4, Big Boss humbled Snake pretty damn fast in CQC. Solid Snake may have defeated the older Big Boss in the Metal Gear games, but a younger Naked Snake--someone who took down The Boss, should be able to take Solid Snake.

Did you forget that it was The Boss's mission to die by her own apprentice? She might have let naked snake take the majority in that fight...He often battled with himself because he never felt that he truly surpassed The Boss and rightfully so... Solid snake wins this because he has beaten big boss once before with nothing but a aerosol can and a lighter...

@MrDirector786 said:

@nickzambuto:

Twin Snakes isn't canon. The feats he shows in that are inconsistent to what he shows in the main MGS games. MGS4 was in a different time when their tech is more advanced. If Big Boss had the same tech as Snake, he would probably be able to take down Geckos like regular soldiers too. The Foxhound soldiers he took on didn't really show themselves as being very advanced at all and were pretty much just cannon fodder (though to be fair, most enemy soldiers in the Metal Gear series were pretty much cannon fodder).

I disagree. If you look at MGS 1, Mei Ling has a Chinese accent, and Naomi has a British one, however, in the Twin Snakes both have regular old American ones. In MGS4, they once again have American accents, so if unless they somehow lost them from the Shadow Moses Incident to Liquid's insurrection, MGS 1 would actually be the game with inconsistencies. Not to mention many translation errors were present in MGS1. Liquid says that he got the reccessive genes while Solid got the dominant ones. If this were the case, the whole reason Liquid did everything he did was because he was pissed that he got blonde hair.

No, it makes much more sense to refer to them as superior and inferior genes, as they did in Twin Snakes.

And also, you went on to say how Solid's tech was more advanced, but once again I disagree. All Solid got was the octocamo, solid eye, and Mk. II, none of which would help in a fight against a Gecko. Not to mention Solid was fighting Gecko's in his old age, which completely offsets the advantages gained by those three devices. And again, he ONLY got those things in 4. In MGS 1 he was still taking on enemies FAR superior to Naked Snakes, with his only tech advantage being the Soliton Radar.

And you say the FOXHOUND soldiers never showed themselves as being advanced. If you mean by the fact that they could only see 5 feet in front of them and all that stuff, that's game mechanics. It doesn't count. If we were to count that as canon then we might as well say that Chris Redfield has a healing factor because when he gets bit by zombies he doesn't get infected. That's obvious bull, as is saying the Genome soldiers are incompetant because of game mechanics.

Though if there is an actual part in the STORY where the Genome soldiers were shown to be incompetent, then please say so and I will refute everything I've said so far, because I'll be honest I may be overlooking something.

And I'm still waiting for someone to post a single feat of Naked Snakes! So far each post has said he has superior ones to Solid, well ok, care to show them!? lol

@MrDirector786: Well, seeing as he was only in MGS 2 for like, 5 minutes, and he was an old man in 4, I don't really think we really have enough evidence to say his Twin Snakes feats contradict those.

And again, whether they got rid of the accents because of racial stereotypes or not doesn't matter, the point is they DID get rid of them, and gave them American accents, which were also present in 4, but not in 1.

I'll give you the Geckos, you're right about those, and I'll also agree that none of the soldiers (in any of the games) have any feats, but when you lack feats you HAVE to go by other things. Case in point, what is SAID about them. Naomi states that the Genome soldiers are vastly superior to any regular soldier, since there is no proof AGAINST it, we have no choice but to believe they are in fact that. Above regular soldiers, as in, above soldiers Big Boss faced.

You say Snake got knocked out by a soldier with a gun. Well... Big Boss did too, lol, in Peace Walker.

You wanna talk durability? Old Snake was launched onto Haven via a catapult, some two or three stories into the air, and was fine enough to fight an army. After fighting said army, he went through, get ready, the microwave room! Dun dun dun!

As seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System there, the absolute longest a trained military man can bear through microwave waves is 20 seconds. Snake did it for about 3 minutes. Not to mention the force from the microwave room should be significatly more then that outputted by the ADS vehicles. And I can't stress this enough, you have to remember this is OLD SNAKE. Snake in this fight is in his prime.

So anyway, after making it through the microwave room, Snake was good enough to defend the Mk. III from a horde of scarabs while it uploaded the virus into GW.

A short nap later, Snake was back at 100% for his fight with Liquid.

What did Big Boss do? He got the **** kicked out of him by Volgin.

Now, you say Snake is never shown taking out any soldiers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5uuSD36SG4&feature=related

If you ask me, that's MUCH more impressive then this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl4YjS0HhfU&feature=fvst

Look at Big Boss's fight. This shows both how unskilled he is (compared to Solid) and how dumb GRU was. I can count on two hands the amount of oppotunities the GRU soldiers had to just shoot BB (and I will if asked) but instead they decided to all try and bum rush him. BB himself does nothing to protect himself if they DO decide to shoot, instead opting to focus on one enemy at a time. Snake, meanwhile, focused on the whole crowd, using a shield when neccesary, getting close, and then taking down the armed enemies to fast for them to react. I do not see a single instance in the Snake fight where the soldiers could of done something different (if you do feel free to point it out) but I see a f***ton in the Big Boss one.

This is just the tip of the iceburg, I've got dozens of other Snake feats I'm waiting to throw out, just waiting for you to post some BB feats so I can counter them. ;)

Naked gets striped naked by the solid fist of death!

@BlackSuperSaiyan said:

Naked gets striped naked by the solid fist of death!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16H6VHO-amE

lol with this he actually could. The solar gun knocks out enemies and strips them of their equipment. :p

@MrDirector786 said:

@nickzambuto:

In Twin Snakes, Snake was able to jump like 20 feet in the air, was flipping off of missiles and showed other feats of great agility that he never shows the capability to do in either MGS2 or MGS4. That's why the feats in it go against what he did in both of those games.

Snake going through the microwave system was more because of his willpower. Snake as an old man shouldn't have even been able to walk or stand up but it was stated that his will kept him going. And he didn't just wake up and fight Liquid Ocelot. He was completely unable to move until Liquid injected him with something.

Volgin was strong enough to dent oil drums and had electrical powers as well. Liquid had no such ability.

In that instance, Snake had an advantage of surprise when taking on those soldiers whereas Big Boss didn't when he was facing all those other enemies. And again, soldiers in MGS are virtually featless, including the ones Snake was facing. There were also some instances where they could have shot Snake but didn't.

As I've said, we can't compare TTS Snake with MGS2 Snake, due to a lack of evidence in the latter. The 5 minutes we play as him isn't enough to make a good judgement. Though from the little that we DID see, I think we can say they match up. Snake leaping off a bridge and bungie jumping onto a Marine ship without anyone noticing, and rolling out of the way of Olga's surprise knife-bullet, fit well with his TTS feats.

You're right, Snake DID go through the microwave room thanks to his will power. That's exactly what I was saying. Let's say Snake is getting his ass whooped by Naked. For every hit he gets in, Naked gets 3. He's in some serious pain, but thanks to his superior will power, he can work through the pain and keep going, until his every-one-hit starts to wear Naked down. Like it or not, Naked has barely any will power feats.

Yeah, Liquid can't dent oil drums, but let's not completely ignore everything I said before mentioning him. How weak, tired, worn, and hurt Snake was before he fought him. Yet he still won. Obviously Volgin wasn't hitting Naked nearly as hard as he could; he was just trying to knock him out, not kill him. Not to mention the fact that Naked hadn't done anything very strenous at that point, and was still at more or less 100%. And even AT 100% Volgin kicked his ass H2H.

You have a point in that Snake got them by surprise, but really all he got from that was putting the one dude in a headlock. From there he strategically disarmed and took out each and every soldier, never leaving room for recovery or retaliation. Naked on the other hand, in his fight, gave the enemies many chances to shoot him. Such as at 3:27 ALL the way to 3:43, then at 3:46 the guard decides to rush Naked instead of shoot him, then while Naked is fooling around with him his buddies have a chance to shoot Naked but decide not, no they just bum rush him to, cause it worked so well before, and so on. That didn't happen with Solid's fight. If it did, please point out when because I pointed out when for Naked.

FOR THE FOURTH TIME, I'M STILL WAITING FOR A SINGLE FEAT FROM NAKED SNAKE. lol c'mon! I've actually posted more Naked Snake feats then anyone else with that video!

@jeanroygrant said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@jeanroygrant: Naked was Solid's father, IIRC.

Oh

Kinda... Snake is technically Big Boss's clone, but has a few genetic differences.

Solid takes this. He engaged in hand to hand combat with cyborg grey wolf and won. That feat alone is greater than anything Big Boss did. Solid is the original and the best snake.

Edit: By the way I just got Metal gear Solid HD collection. Peace Walker was the only game in the entire series (excluding acid) I hadn't played. I'm so happy :)

@MrDirector786: Christ, I can't believe I said wolf instead of Fox *slowly walks away in shame*

Naked Snake FTW

@MrDirector786 said:

@Onemoreposter said:

Solid takes this. He engaged in hand to hand combat with cyborg grey wolf and won. That feat alone is greater than anything Big Boss did. Solid is the original and the best snake.

You mean Gray Fox? Gray Fox was holding back on him and Kojima himself said this in an issue of PSM. It also makes sense that he held back since Gray Fox was strong enough to hold up Rex. If he's that strong, a single punch from him could have probably taken Snake's head off if he wanted but he held back because he wanted a fair fight with him.

Also, I wish the HD collection had Portable Ops in addition to Peace Walker. It and Peace Walker are the only Metal Gear games I've never really played because I don't have a PSP (though I've always thought of getting one just for those two games).

@nickzambuto:

Those don't really fit with his TTS feats at all. In Twin Snakes, he was much more agile and stronger. Again, he was flipping off of missiles and jumping way higher than average humans could. At one point, he jumped like 10 feet in the air when fighting Rex. Not to mention that when the soldier knocked him out in regular MGS1, he was hit in the side of the head by the front of the gun and was out instantly. In Twin Snakes, he was hit in the back of the head and yet he managed to stay conscious for a few seconds before it actually knocked him out. That shows he's more durable in that version.

Also, Volgin didn't completely beat Naked Snake on his own. In that very same cutscene, Snake actually had the upper hand on him in the beginning but then the Boss showed up and took him down and then Volgin started giving him a beating. If the Boss hadn't interfered, he could have probably beaten him.

At about 2:46 one of the guards goes behind him. He could have shot Snake at that point. At about 3:20 a guard comes around, just points his gun at him instead of shooting.

As a side note, it's reasons like this and the instances you pointed out that I say that soldiers in MGS are all just fodder. It's not just game mechanics - even in cutscenes they are pretty incompetent. Watching that scene with Naked Snake and Ocelot, the KGB soldiers could have shot Ocelot many times but they just stood there and let him shoot them.

As for feats for Big Boss, he did manage to survive a long fall from a bridge near the beginning of the game. The Boss broke some of his bones and threw him off and yet he managed to survive. There was also his little fight with Ocelot on the WIG. I'll try to find some more feats. I haven't played Portable Ops or Peace Walker but I am watching the cutscenes from the games on YT (since I don't have a PSP and I still want to know what happens in both, though I already read a plot summary of PO, I haven't seen the cutscenes myself). So yeah, it might take me a while to find some more feats. I hope you don't mind if I take a few days or so to come back here with more feats, because I'll also be busy with other things.

The missile flip is often regarded as the absolute greatest feat of any MGS character ever, it's not like he was doing that the whole game. That was the equivalent of Spider-Man holding up the Daily Bugle from collapsing, that's clearly not a regular part of his power set and was only done once thanks to a great adrenaline rush. So, comparing his other TTS feats with his feats in other MGS games, for example his fight with Liquid here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPgnie50hd8&feature=related

And his fight with Liquid here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGr8BBeAOa8&feature=fvst

I don't see a very large gap, beside TTS Snake obviously being stronger thanks to being about 50 years younger physically.

Another point of TTS being canon over MGS1 is because in MGS4, during Act 4, the Shadow Moses flashbacks are done using TTS audio and voiceovers, not MGS1's.

You mention the gun thing again, but honestly Snake passing out immediately VS Snake passing out after a couple seconds isn't much of a difference. You say you haven't played Peace Walker yet, so you may not want to read the next bit, but I assure you it is a SUPER minor spoiler. Very very minor.

MINOR MINOR SPOILERS

Big Boss was too, knocked out by a gunbutt midway through the game.

END OF SPOILERS

The fight hadn't even started yet, which is why the guard at 2:46 didn't just shoot Snake. He was busy chatting with his buddies about whether Snake really was Snake. The guard at 3:20 never even got a chance to shoot because the second he turned the corner Snake took him down. The guards Naked fought however, had plenty of time to shoot, but decided bum rushing would be a better idea. That or just waiting.

And yes, Naked did manage to down Volgin before The Boss showed up, but that was only because he caught Volgin off guard with a surprise flip when Volgin still thought Naked was Raikov. And even when The Boss did show up, all she did was disarm Naked. From there he and Volgin had a fair H2H fight, with Volgin winning thanks to nothing but superior strength. Solid fought and beat Gray Fox, someone not only stronger, but faster and more skilled then Volgin. Goes to show how much better skilled Solid is then Naked.

Big Boss may of survived the bridge fall, but that's all he managed to do. Survive. He came out with plenty of broken bones, lacerations, and other nasty wounds. Snake, meanwhile, in MGS2 dove off of the top of Arsenal Gear after Ray, and he managed to survive AND swim to shore (a solid 3 or 4 miles). Arsenal Gear is similar in size and scale to an aircraft carrier, and they say that the maximum height you can jump off into water without breaking bones is 90 feet. A typical aircraft carrier (though are only about 20 in all the world due to how expensive they are) if I am remembering correctly is about 300 feet high. Not only does Snake manage to not break his bones but he has enough energy to put a transmitter on RAY underwater, surface and swim miles to shore and then on top of that walk on land all the way to Federal Hall.

You should totally buy the HD collection just for Peace Walker, DEFINATELY worth it.

@MrDirector786

I just thought of something else. Snake didn't piss himself when he got electroshock torture.

@MrDirector786 said:

@nickzambuto said:

@MrDirector786

I just thought of something else. Snake didn't piss himself when he got electroshock torture.

How many volts was Snake being hit with? Volgin was hitting Big Boss with a few million volts I believe and yet he didn't break.

Volgin said 3 million volts. It's never stated how much Snake was hit with, but Snake never lost his backpack in a tree like a spaz. Anyway you still haven't replied to my previous post. Do you submit?