Which goku, is it after kid buu fight, or GT, or newly formed ssj3 goku.
Mystic Gohan is more powerful in DBZ (DBGT was rubbish) Goku's instant transmission could finish of gohan easily, but it all depends on the writer. It is also unknown the gap between mystic gohan and ssj3 goku, both are above super buu, but gohan did better against gotenks absorbed buu, than goku.
faster, stronger strength wise, more durable, smarter in battle, better fighter.
"
wrong, wrong, wrong, correct, debatable since Goku taught Gohan everything he, Goku knows, and Gohan also learned everything Piccolo could teach him as well.
faster, stronger strength wise, more durable, smarter in battle, better fighter.
"
wrong, wrong, wrong, correct, debatable since Goku taught Gohan everything he, Goku knows, and Gohan also learned everything Piccolo could teach him as well. "
Goku did not teach goku everything he knew, or even everything Picollo knew, and that is why Gohan was no match for gotenks buu. Goku learnt alot in otherworld. Goku is a better fighter, in battle he is smarter, and thanks to instant transmission he is faster, but gohan has the higher power level.
Goku is faster theres no way Goan can be faster then Goku considering the training Goku has went through X times the earth gravity that also counts for his strength I'm not talking BP i'm talking what he can lift and how hard he can hit. Goku is more Durable not once did Goku break a body part during a fight even then when he did he survived being crushing by Ape vegeta (not counting the Kaio Ken move) Gohans Arm was broken by a blast from cell..he is only not full blooded sayian which can count for something also.
Gokus IT would give him the victory as I said before speed is the Key. look back on all DBZ fighters when they have fought an enemy that was stronger then them but not faster..
Goku vs Vegeta...KK attack gvae Goku the edge in that fight even though Vegeta still one Gokus body fell apart because he wasn't suppose to use the attack past X3
Trunks vs Cell Trunks was way stronger then cell but cell was faster thus trunks stood no chance.
Gohan wins this. Goku can't hold SSJ3 for that long, which means Gohan has better stamina, and Gohan was the strongest non fused character in the series by the end.
" Gohan wins this. Goku can't hold SSJ3 for that long, which means Gohan has better stamina, and Gohan was the strongest non fused character in the series by the end. "
IF Gohan was stronger then Goku and thats a BIG IF it wasn't by much........Goku is still better then Gohan in everyway.
Goku wins Gohan's full potential is unlocked when he turns mystic. Essentially, his power's tapped out. DBZ does not end with Buu. After that, Goku spends 10 years or so training to spar against the reincarnated Buu, Uub. We all know that any time Goku gets time to train, his power increases exponentially.
Even without that, Gohan simply can't force Goku to fight. Goku can IT away and take a minute to recharge his Ki. If Goku gains the upper hand, he'll press his advantage and win. If Gohan gains advantage, he can't force Goku to stay.
Also remember that SS3 was still a new transformation. Each SS transformation gets more stable the more it's used. SS3 takes a lot of energy, but Goku's only used it a handful of times. He didn't even know a lot of basic things like its ki consumption.
" Gohan wins this. Goku can't hold SSJ3 for that long, which means Gohan has better stamina, and Gohan was the strongest non fused character in the series by the end. "
IF Gohan was stronger then Goku and thats a BIG IF it wasn't by much........Goku is still better then Gohan in everyway. "
It's not an IF, it's a fact. No, it wasn't by much, but that margin of power, plus Gohan's superior stamina would allow him to overcome Goku. He only has to hang with his father for 10 minutes before Gohan's pwnage ensues.
anyways gohan was more powerful than goku, but goku has more experience, knows few more moves (like IT), likes fighting more, and goku has possibly became more powerful than gohan in the end of DBZ since he was training for 10 years and gohan was studding . to close for call.
" Gohan's superiority isn't really a fact. They both lost handily to Gotenks Buu. Aside from that, there's no other real benchmark. "
Gotenks was wrecking Buu like Gohan was wrecking Buu. Buu plus Gotenks equals someone more powerful than Gohan and SSJ3 Goku. Gotenks, Gohan, and Goku were close to each other in power, so Buu doing that sort of damage makes sense.
@Klandicar said:
" Let's just say it is a tie, but SSJ3 Goku has more durability (took a load of hits from Buu and kept fighting). Gohan is better power and speed wise. "
And if we go by your stats, Gohan still wins because he has a speed advantage, which means he can dodge Goku's attacks. SSJ3 is a power drain, and Goku isn't going to keep up the form like he can with SSJ and SSJ2. The only way it doesn't become a power hog is if he's dead and in Otherworld. Gohan will tag and be tagged by Goku until Goku's power starts to wane, and like Goku dominated Frieza towards the end of their fight, Gohan will dominate Goku.
My point is that we have no idea if Gohan is more powerful than Goku. Both of them lost handily to the only opponent that fought both of them. Any comparisons between the two can only lead to one conclusion. They're both weaker than Gotenks Buu.
Gohan has one chance at beating Goku. He has to one shot him. That's never happened to Goku even when he's fought people beings with far more power relative to his own. At best Gohan is about his level of power. At any time that Goku thinks he's going to lose, he can IT out, gather his ki and come right back into the fight. There's something to be said about a strategy that simply can't lose. Gohan cannot win.
The above scan is useful for two reasons. First all Goku needs is a minute to regather all his ki. Second it shows that the SS3 we've been seeing was never at full power. Even Vegeta notes that had Goku been at full power, he would beat Buu in an instant. That's the power differential. Here's he's an even fight with Kid Buu. At full power, Goku kills him in an instant.
Now give him an extra 10 years to train. Any amount of training time for Goku is too much when they start about even.
Mystic Gohan wins. He was fighting Super Buu fine while Goku knew it would be hopeless for him to even try fighting Super Buu. Mystic Gohan was at his max potential, so strong that going SSJ would actually make him weaker.
"Goku was roughly equal to Fat Buu whereas Gohan was running rings around Super Buu you can't compare them really "
So sick of nonsense like that, it is obvious that goku was humiliating fat buu, goku was not scared of buu combined with piccolo, trunks and goten. Goku would easily beat super buu, but Gohan was said by Akira to be more powerful than goku, and that is acceptable, a fight between the two would be close, but goku had not even mastered ssj3, and so had poor stamina. They both held their own against gotenks buu, before getting humiliated, but gohan's fight looked a bit more equal.
Excuse my language before I do not want to be rude, but, the gap between gohan and goku was alot closer than you realise. Gohan has power but is not a fighter in my view, he can't be botheed to train unless forced by a situation and gets cocky like vegeta. (Vegeta is better at it though).
After the ten years it becomes obvious, and personally I don't think that it is fair to gohan.
@MisterGuyMan said:
"My point is that we have no idea if Gohan is more powerful than Goku. Both of them lost handily to the only opponent that fought both of them. Any comparisons between the two can only lead to one conclusion. They're both weaker than Gotenks Buu.
Gohan has one chance at beating Goku. He has to one shot him. That's never happened to Goku even when he's fought people beings with far more power relative to his own. At best Gohan is about his level of power. At any time that Goku thinks he's going to lose, he can IT out, gather his ki and come right back into the fight. There's something to be said about a strategy that simply can't lose. Gohan cannot win.
The above scan is useful for two reasons. First all Goku needs is a minute to regather all his ki. Second it shows that the SS3 we've been seeing was never at full power. Even Vegeta notes that had Goku been at full power, he would beat Buu in an instant. That's the power differential. Here's he's an even fight with Kid Buu. At full power, Goku kills him in an instant. Now give him an extra 10 years to train. Any amount of training time for Goku is too much when they start about even. "
Thankyou, somebody gets it. Gohan was the strongest in the buu saga no doubt, the margin is not too big, but because goku had not mjastered ssj3 his stamina was poor. Goku also has many techniques that could kill gohan in an instant, but goku is not like that.
The interview with Akira Toriyama where he states that Gohan is the most powerful unfused character... is completely false. It's from a completely fictional magazine called Super Otaku and has been the source of a lot of confusion.
" The interview with Akira Toriyama where he states that Gohan is the most powerful unfused character... is completely false. It's from a completely fictional magazine called Super Otaku and has been the source of a lot of confusion. "
"The interview with Akira Toriyama where he states that Gohan is the most powerful unfused character... is completely false. It's from a completely fictional magazine called Super Otaku and has been the source of a lot of confusion. "
Ok, let's see, your opinion<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<the creator of the series. Gohan WAS the most powerful non fused character. He was far more powerful than SSJ3 Gotenks, for the simple reason, if you pay attention to what Buu said. He sensed Gohan's energy during his fight with Gotenks and wasn't really trying. He was waiting for Gohan to come so they could fight. SSJ3 Goku couldn't beat fat Buu, go see the fight and you'd know he wasn't really close to beating him. Goku even said during their fight that all his attacks wern't even damaging Buu. Kid Buu may have been the most evil form, but the weakest in terms of power. SSJ3 drained power always, it had nothing to do with form. Goku didn't know SSJ3 went so fast because he had never used it in a live body, only in a dead one. That's what he said why he couldn't gather more energy. Goku said himself that if Gohan would have powered up, he could have still beat Buu after he absorbed Gotenks, but he never did. The only reason that Gohan even lost was because of the stupid fans in this country wanted it to be Goku that won. Akira had wanted it to be Gohan to be the top guy.
You're not paying attention. The 'interview' with Akira Toriyama where he states that Gohan is the most powerful nonfused character in DBZ is completely fictional. He did not say that. That interview was completely fabricated. The magazine that supposedly released the interview, 'Super Otaku Magazine' does not exist. It's an internet rumor that's gained more credibility that most.
As for your contention that Goku couldn't beat fat Buu:
In the last panel Goku states he could have beaten Buu if he really wanted to. Remember that we never saw SS3 Goku at full power. He says as much in the previous scan I posted. You also claim that Kid Buu was weaker than Fat Buu. That also is not true.
Last panel says it all. Not only is Kid Buu more dangerous, he's also more powerful than Fat Buu. When Kid Buu absorbed the fat Kaioshin, he lost power.
That's the same fight, by the way, that Goku just teleported in and cut Super Buu in half. That's something that Mystic Gohan cannot come back from however much power he has. Gohan simply cannot beat Goku unless he one shots him. Goku has an ability that allows him the option to enter and exit battle at any time. That's something Gohan simply cannot stop. We both know Gohan isn't one shotting Goku either.
Then there's the issue of Goku's 10 extra years in training. The last time Goku trained for just 5 years or so, he went from being completely outclassed by Perfect Cell and SS2 Gohan, to calling people like Dabura, who are more powerful than Cell, a weakling. Heck, Vegeta said Dabura was a weakling and even with the powerup from Babidi he was still on Goku level without SS3. This isn't close here.
SS3 was still an unstable transformation. Goku almost never used it and didn't train with it. With 10 years training, that's not an issue. He probably won't even need it at that point.
"Goku still edges out the victory just because you are stronger doesnt mean you win. "
In DBZ it does. Being the better fighter doesnt mean you win either. Goku was a better fighter than Frieza, but becaus Frieza had the higher powerlevel, he was able to beat Goku, until Goku went SSJ1(where he was able to beat Frieza because he had a higher powerlevel) In DBZ, no one trained to be a better fighter, they trained to raise their powerlevels. Goku didnt even learn any real fighting techniques in DBZ, most of everything he learned was power ups and energy attacks. PL in DBZ is everything, pretty much, if you have a higher powerevel than your opponent, you win.
"Goku still edges out the victory just because you are stronger doesnt mean you win. "
In DBZ it does. Being the better fighter doesnt mean you win either. Goku was a better fighter than Frieza, but becaus Frieza had the higher powerlevel, he was able to beat Goku, until Goku went SSJ1(where he was able to beat Frieza because he had a higher powerlevel) In DBZ, no one trained to be a better fighter, they trained to raise their powerlevels. Goku didnt even learn any real fighting techniques in DBZ, most of everything he learned was power ups and energy attacks. PL in DBZ is everything, pretty much, if you have a higher powerevel than your opponent, you win. "
The thing is, Frieza completely outclassed Goku in power prior to Goku going SSJ. This isn't a Vegeta vs Goku or Goku vs Ginyu where the difference in power was marginal, Frieza was on another level. Frieza was the mountain to Goku's rock. The difference in power between Goku and Gohan in this fight is there, but it's marginal, therefore, fighting skill would play a bigger role in the fight.
@Grand Ninja said:
" is it possible for mystic gohan turns super? what would happen? "
Nothing. Gohan is unable to go SSJ. All of the power that would've been created by transforming is available in his base form, along with his natural potential being unlocked. It took an attempt to go SSJ to unlock all of his powers.
"Goku still edges out the victory just because you are stronger doesnt mean you win. "
In DBZ it does. Being the better fighter doesnt mean you win either. Goku was a better fighter than Frieza, but becaus Frieza had the higher powerlevel, he was able to beat Goku, until Goku went SSJ1(where he was able to beat Frieza because he had a higher powerlevel) In DBZ, no one trained to be a better fighter, they trained to raise their powerlevels. Goku didnt even learn any real fighting techniques in DBZ, most of everything he learned was power ups and energy attacks. PL in DBZ is everything, pretty much, if you have a higher powerevel than your opponent, you win. "
uhh no Piccolo vs Frieza from 2 Frieza was stronger then Piccolo and Piccolo won that fight.
"Goku still edges out the victory just because you are stronger doesnt mean you win. "
In DBZ it does. Being the better fighter doesnt mean you win either. Goku was a better fighter than Frieza, but becaus Frieza had the higher powerlevel, he was able to beat Goku, until Goku went SSJ1(where he was able to beat Frieza because he had a higher powerlevel) In DBZ, no one trained to be a better fighter, they trained to raise their powerlevels. Goku didnt even learn any real fighting techniques in DBZ, most of everything he learned was power ups and energy attacks. PL in DBZ is everything, pretty much, if you have a higher powerevel than your opponent, you win. "
uhh no Piccolo vs Frieza from 2 Frieza was stronger then Piccolo and Piccolo won that fight. "
Piccolo did not beat him, he was just strong enough to fight him so frieza transformed so he could dominate again, and we don't know piccolos power level at that point
Piccolo's power was near or over 1 million at that point, as Frieza's power was over 1 million. I'm also pretty sure that there's a documented power level for Piccolo as well, since Toriyama was still recording them at that time.
Here are some fights off the top of my head where weaker power levels beat higher ones: Guido beat Krillen & Gohan Ginyu beats Goku Super Buu beats Gotenks Goku & Piccolo beat Raditz
" Piccolo's power was near or over 1 million at that point, as Frieza's power was over 1 million. I'm also pretty sure that there's a documented power level for Piccolo as well, since Toriyama was still recording them at that time. "
"Here are some fights off the top of my head where weaker power levels beat higher ones: Guido beat Krillen & Gohan Ginyu beats Goku Super Buu beats Gotenks Goku & Piccolo beat Raditz "
Guldo almost beat Krillin & Gohan because he could stop time. Ginyu didn't really beat Goku, he stole his body. Super Buu was stronger than Gotenks. Goku & Piccolo beat Raditz because of teamwork, and some timely help by Gohan.
SS3 Gotenks was about to beat Super Buu but reverted back. He was saved by Gohan. In round two Super Buu swallowed up Gotenks for his fight against Gohan.
Raditz power level was more than the combined PL of both Goku and PIccolo. The list is just there to show that higher power levels do not equate to equal battlefield wins. Some of the battles were really lopsided too. We can argue over how they won but wins are wins.
" SS3 Gotenks was about to beat Super Buu but reverted back. He was saved by Gohan. In round two Super Buu swallowed up Gotenks for his fight against Gohan. Raditz power level was more than the combined PL of both Goku and PIccolo. The list is just there to show that higher power levels do not equate to equal battlefield wins. Some of the battles were really lopsided too. We can argue over how they won but wins are wins. "
Yea team work doesn't effect DBZ top tiers. that's not how DBZ works. DBZ is all about quality over quantity. That means you could have one thousand 100% max powered freezas vs one imperfect cell. the one who's going to win is imperfect cell.
" SS3 Gotenks was about to beat Super Buu but reverted back. He was saved by Gohan. In round two Super Buu swallowed up Gotenks for his fight against Gohan. Raditz power level was more than the combined PL of both Goku and PIccolo. The list is just there to show that higher power levels do not equate to equal battlefield wins. Some of the battles were really lopsided too. We can argue over how they won but wins are wins. "
Yea team work doesn't effect DBZ top tiers. that's not how DBZ works. DBZ is all about quality over quantity. That means you could have one thousand 100% max powered freezas vs one imperfect cell. the one who's going to win is imperfect cell. "
true, and Gohan angry had the highest power level at the time Raditz was on Earth.
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