Murtagh Morzansson vs The Order of the Phoenix

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TheVivas

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#1  Edited By TheVivas

Murtagh from the Inheritance series.

The Order of the Phoenix from the Harry Potter verse.

Rules:

  • Murtagh has his standard gear, excluding Thorn.
  • The Order has all of its members that were present during their against the Death Eaters, plus Dumbledore, Snape, and the Weasly brothers.
  • Full knowledge for The Order, Murtagh only gets basic knowledge.
  • Morals on but determined to win.
  • Both sides get 10 minutes prep.
  • Fight takes place in the Forbidden Forest at 7 p.m.
  • Start 50 feet apart.
  • Win by death or KO.
  • Novel and movie feats allowed for The Order.

Respect thread for Murtagh:

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/thevivas/blog/murtagh-morzansson-respect-thread/104349/

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TheVivas

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TheVivas

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@leo-343 said:

@thevivas: That depends on if you're allowing the HP magic to be governed by the same rules Eragon Magic is bound by in regards to the Name of Names.

I was thinking about that, but didn't want to give Murtagh any "advantages" per say. I'll have it so that his wards against magic still protect him, though.

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Stormsight

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#6  Edited By Stormsight

Alagaèsia magic and Potterverse magic differ much. Murtagh's magic is stronger, but drains him faster. Does he have any Eldunari? @thevivas

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I_Am_Lightning

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#7  Edited By I_Am_Lightning

@thevivas: Most probaly. I'd doubt he'd do it though.

Edit: thinking about, probaly not. HP and Eragon magic are very different.

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OrdinaryAlan

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The Order wins, but Murtagh takes a few down with him.

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Stormdriven

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50 feet apart? Murtagh could cover that distance in no time all. The Order won't even see Zar'roc as it swings to lop off their heads.

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TheVivas

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Alagaèsia magic and Potterverse magic differ much. Murtagh's magic is stronger, but drains him faster. Does he have any Eldunari? @thevivas

He has all the ones he did when he fought Eragon.

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Stormsight

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@thevivas said:

@stormsight said:

Alagaèsia magic and Potterverse magic differ much. Murtagh's magic is stronger, but drains him faster. Does he have any Eldunari? @thevivas

He has all the ones he did when he fought Eragon.

Then he's gonna wreck

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RandomSid82

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With the Eldunari he overpowers their magic. With even just the sword that Oromis had it was said he could move a mountain, and Eldunari can store much more magic than his sword could. His magic is just more powerful than theirs. Might take him a little time, but yeah he overpowers them in magic and easily overpowers them in physicals.

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Night4345

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Murtagh wrecks.

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Spector_Rand

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Murtagh should take this, assuming both forms of magic interact with each other in a predictable way.

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TheVivas

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@randomsid: Oromis actually stored all of his and Glaedr's excess magic in his sword, as well as a few elves that would come every day or week for over a hundred years. The Eldunari Murtagh has are young and not as strong or experienced as other Dragons' Eldunari.

But thanks for your answer. Lol

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RandomSid82

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#16  Edited By RandomSid82

@thevivas said:

@randomsid: Oromis actually stored all of his and Glaedr's excess magic in his sword, as well as a few elves that would come every day or week for over a hundred years. The Eldunari Murtagh has are young and not as strong or experienced as other Dragons' Eldunari.

But thanks for your answer. Lol

This is true, but the sword had a definite limit to the amount of power it could hold. And even as a young dragon they hold more than any gem could store. That was stated in the books.

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TheVivas

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@randomsid: Don't remember the dragon and stone quote....but I'll take your word for it. Lol

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Spector_Rand

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@thevivas: Well I mean, I'd assume Murtagh's wards protect against spells, but for all we know they could explode into fairies haha.

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TheVivas

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@spector_rand: Ohhhhh okay haha. No his magical wards still protect against magic, but they can be exhausted over time.

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Spector_Rand

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@thevivas: Ok sweet haha. Yeah I back Murtagh

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RandomSid82

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@thevivas: Not to mention that with the backing of the Eldunari he could probably mind rape all of them at the same time. With just Glaedr's Eldunari Eragon was able to mind rape both Arya and the other members of his guard who were all accomplished magicians with very strong minds. And I use the term loosely since he didn't actually hurt them but was able to overwhelm their defenses.

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#23  Edited By TheVivas

@randomsid: Talk to Leo about that. Lol. I'm not too versed in the HP verse but I do know Dumbledore and Snape have dealt with TP before, but don't know to what level.

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RandomSid82

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@thevivas said:

@randomsid: Talk to Leo about that. I'm not too versed in the HP verse but I do know Dumbledore and Snape have dealt with TP before, but don't know to what level.

Yes, they have dealt with TP before, but nothing in any of the books(I've read them all) was near the power that Eragon had with just Glaedr. Glaedr alone was able to overwhelm the minds of every person in the Varden's army after Oromis died and when Glaedr was coming out of his "hibernation" for lack of a better word. I can't remember the exact numbers but I know it was in the high tens of thousands. Nothing Snape or Dumbledore have faced with TP can come even close to that.

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Stahlflamme

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@randomsid: That however is Glaedr not Murtaghs Eldunari. Eragon and Saphira resisted Murtaghs mental attacks and were completely powerless against Glaedr.

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TheVivas

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@randomsid: I'm not sure if "overwhelmed" is the right word. All the spellcasters did feel his presence, though, even the ones that weren't even close to him.

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the_red_viper

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#27 the_red_viper  Moderator

@leo-343: The Name of Names affects all kinds of magic. Like it affected the dragons and Elva. Murtagh also has wards that can withstand spells a lot more powerful than anything the HP verse has to offer, especially with his Eldunari. HP-verse spells are not powerful at all, they are literally just flashes of light that have to make contact to have effect. Murtagh's wards would block them like arrows. Even if they were more powerful, the Eldunarya he's carrying will be enough. A man with 1 Eldunari has tanked direct hits from a ballista and killed the elf queen in single combat. And don't even get me started on melee, and especially TP.

Murtagh stomps them into the ground, he's way too powerful and versatile.

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Stahlflamme

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#28  Edited By Stahlflamme

@the_red_viper: The dragons magic was NOT affected by the name, only magic using words was affected. Neither was Elva, which is why Galbatorix used magic to stop her from talking.

Harry Potter spells are beyond strong or weak, they do what they do, there is no power against power wrestling involved, which is why even Voldemort could not just plow through defensive spells, except with the Death Curse that can't be blocked, and not even Dumbledore could undo the security of the place the horcrux was hidden at.

Barst, or what is name was, had a much more powerful Eldunari than Murtagh.

Lastly wards are against specific types of damage, they do not automatically stop all damage if you have spell against fire you still can get burned if light is used to create heat. Roran was shielded against physical attacks of enemies and still could get injured by an animal by accident.

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TheVivas

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@stahlflamme: Wards against magic work against all magic. In the third book, Eragon had to adjust his wards against magic to let Arya use a healing spell on him.

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the_red_viper

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#30 the_red_viper  Moderator

@stahlflamme: Yes, the NoN did affect Elva and the dragons. When Galbatorix first used it, it had the exact same effect in them as it did on the humans and elves, it immobilized and disoriented them.

HP spells are not beyond strong or weak. They are flashes of light that can be blocked by any solid object, or alternatively wards. Even if they hit, their effects are not as powerful as things we've seen being blocked by wards in TIC, like when Barst tanked shots from a ballista. And no, we were never told what Eldunari he had, so we cannot assume how powerful it was. Besides, it makes more sense for Galbatorix to give his more powerful Elduanrya to Murtagh-a dragon rider who is leagues more crucial to him than Barst who was just a field commander. Also, Barst only had one Eldunari while we do know Murtagh had more.

The killing curse is also useless because if numerous reasons. A) it's out of character for any of them to use it (yes, for Snape too), B) Murtagh can dodge it and C) Murtagh has Deathwords which are far, far above Evada Kedavra.

And as it was already explained to you by TheVivas, wards are not only against specific types of magic. Murtagh's wards will block anything the wizards throw at him, while he can easily cancel their own wards without breaking a sweat. Not to mention he solo's with TP in less than 10 seconds.

Again, Murtagh stomps hard. He's a reality warper and a telepath, no way in hell he's losing this.

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RandomSid82

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@the_red_viper: The dragons magic was NOT affected by the name, only magic using words was affected. Neither was Elva, which is why Galbatorix used magic to stop her from talking.

Just about all of the Harry Potter spells uses words.

Harry Potter spells are beyond strong or weak, they do what they do, there is no power against power wrestling involved, which is why even Voldemort could not just plow through defensive spells, except with the Death Curse that can't be blocked, and not even Dumbledore could undo the security of the place the horcrux was hidden at.

They actually did have a few power struggles in Harry Potter spells, one was between Voldemort and Harry himself. And the Death curse that can't be blocked bounced off walls and stones quite often. It can be blocked. Dumbledore not being able to undo the security wasn't a matter of power, it was a matter of Voldemort being extremely clever in how he set it up.

Barst, or what is name was, had a much more powerful Eldunari than Murtagh.

Actually, it wasn't really much more powerful, it was just that all of it's power was in blocking physical damage whereas the ones Murtagh was using were spread out in casting spells, blocking spells, blocking damage and many other things.

Lastly wards are against specific types of damage, they do not automatically stop all damage if you have spell against fire you still can get burned if light is used to create heat. Roran was shielded against physical attacks of enemies and still could get injured by an animal by accident.

Yes, the are against specific types of damage, but they can and have also been setup to block just about any means of causing that damage.

@thevivas said:

@randomsid: I'm not sure if "overwhelmed" is the right word. All the spellcasters did feel his presence, though, even the ones that weren't even close to him.

Overwhelmed is the right word, Arya even claimed that she could do nothing against it. And I'm not talking about just when he made himself known, I'm talking about when Eragon was practicing with using Glaedr to boost his mental powers.

@randomsid: That however is Glaedr not Murtaghs Eldunari. Eragon and Saphira resisted Murtaghs mental attacks and were completely powerless against Glaedr.

True to an extent. Eragon and Saphira resisted in their first battle but it took everything they had. The next time Murtagh had more Eldunari and by that point, if I'm not mistaken Eragon had Glaedr as well as the help from his Elven bodyguards.

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Stahlflamme

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@thevivas said:

@stahlflamme: Wards against magic work against all magic. In the third book, Eragon had to adjust his wards against magic to let Arya use a healing spell on him.

Inconsistencies within Eragon... who would have thought...

@stahlflamme: Yes, the NoN did affect Elva and the dragons. When Galbatorix first used it, it had the exact same effect in them as it did on the humans and elves, it immobilized and disoriented them.

That was a different spell. It was even stated Galbatorix used a greater number of words, including a spell that stopped them from remembering the Name. The name only boosts his other magic and undoes magic and oaths using the old language.

HP spells are not beyond strong or weak. They are flashes of light that can be blocked by any solid object, or alternatively wards. Even if they hit, their effects are not as powerful as things we've seen being blocked by wards in TIC, like when Barst tanked shots from a ballista.

Harry Potter spells can cause instant transfer of mass and transform one matter in another or a person into an animal without any negative side effect to the user. All these things take tremendous amounts of Energy within Murtaghs universe and would be much more difficult to deal with than a ballista.

Also the sorry excuse of a wizard that is Wormtail blew up an entire street by waving his wand when face to face with Sirius. That is also easily above an Ballista.

And no, we were never told what Eldunari he had, so we cannot assume how powerful it was.

Size. Eldunari grow with the dragon. Dragons grow with age. The older a dragon the more powerful he gets. Barsts Eldunari was so big it made him seem obese, when it was strapped in front of his stomach. Murtaghs Eldunari were shown to be much smaller.

Besides, it makes more sense for Galbatorix to give his more powerful Elduanrya to Murtagh-a dragon rider who is leagues more crucial to him than Barst who was just a field commander.

A) Barst was the person defending the capital. B) It was stated the Eldunari Murtagh had were from young and inexperienced dragons.

Also, Barst only had one Eldunari while we do know Murtagh had more.

The killing curse is also useless because if numerous reasons. A) it's out of character for any of them to use it (yes, for Snape too), B) Murtagh can dodge it and

And I never claimed they would use it, I said it was the one spell Voldemort could use to break through Harry Potter universe defense spells.

C) Murtagh has Deathwords which are far, far above Evada Kedavra.

A) Murtagh never used Deathwords I believe. B) Evada Kedavra kills. Deathwords cause braindamage. Set up a spell against brain damage one thing. Set up a spell against death. Which one is more likely to work?

And as it was already explained to you by TheVivas, wards are not only against specific types of magic. Murtagh's wards will block anything the wizards throw at him, while he can easily cancel their own wards without breaking a sweat. Not to mention he solo's with TP in less than 10 seconds.

Again, Murtagh stomps hard. He's a reality warper and a telepath, no way in hell he's losing this.

A) What reality warping feat does Murtagh have? B) I never claimed he would lose, I said much of your argumentation is simply wrong.

@stahlflamme said:

@the_red_viper: The dragons magic was NOT affected by the name, only magic using words was affected. Neither was Elva, which is why Galbatorix used magic to stop her from talking.

Just about all of the Harry Potter spells uses words.

The name of names is the name of the language. It can only affect magic using this language.

Harry Potter spells are beyond strong or weak, they do what they do, there is no power against power wrestling involved, which is why even Voldemort could not just plow through defensive spells, except with the Death Curse that can't be blocked, and not even Dumbledore could undo the security of the place the horcrux was hidden at.

They actually did have a few power struggles in Harry Potter spells, one was between Voldemort and Harry himself. And the Death curse that can't be blocked bounced off walls and stones quite often. It can be blocked. Dumbledore not being able to undo the security wasn't a matter of power, it was a matter of Voldemort being extremely clever in how he set it up.

Barst, or what is name was, had a much more powerful Eldunari than Murtagh.

Actually, it wasn't really much more powerful, it was just that all of it's power was in blocking physical damage whereas the ones Murtagh was using were spread out in casting spells, blocking spells, blocking damage and many other things.

I would say Murtaghs were used as energy sources he could draw from, where as Barsts was used as an energy source for the wards Galbatorix had placed upon him.

Lastly wards are against specific types of damage, they do not automatically stop all damage if you have spell against fire you still can get burned if light is used to create heat. Roran was shielded against physical attacks of enemies and still could get injured by an animal by accident.

Yes, the are against specific types of damage, but they can and have also been setup to block just about any means of causing that damage.

@thevivas said:

@randomsid: I'm not sure if "overwhelmed" is the right word. All the spellcasters did feel his presence, though, even the ones that weren't even close to him.

Overwhelmed is the right word, Arya even claimed that she could do nothing against it. And I'm not talking about just when he made himself known, I'm talking about when Eragon was practicing with using Glaedr to boost his mental powers.

@stahlflamme said:

@randomsid: That however is Glaedr not Murtaghs Eldunari. Eragon and Saphira resisted Murtaghs mental attacks and were completely powerless against Glaedr.

True to an extent. Eragon and Saphira resisted in their first battle but it took everything they had. The next time Murtagh had more Eldunari and by that point, if I'm not mistaken Eragon had Glaedr as well as the help from his Elven bodyguards.

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the_red_viper

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#34 the_red_viper  Moderator

@stahlflamme:

It wasn't a different spell. You're right about it having more spells to go along with it, but all spells including the NoN had the same effect on Elva and Saphira as it did on Eragon and the rest. So yes, the NoN affects all magic-not only that which is rooted in the Ancient Language. It's basically the essence of the Ancient Language which contains the essence of everything in existence. So yes, by the very definition of it, it should affect every form of magic.

Instant transform if mass isn't too energy-consuming, Eragon and Arya both used a similar spell with ease. Regardless, HP spells are still just flashes of light that can be stopped if you have a solid object (or a ward) protecting you, and IIRC what the spells do to walls or whatever they hit when the caster misses his mark is pretty much nothing. So yes, the wards Murtagh has will protect him from spells just like they would protect him from arrows.

Bigger/older Eldunarya don't necessarily mean they're more powerful. The oldest Eldunari from the Vault of Souls was Valdr, yet IIRC it was stated that Umaroth was the most powerful. It mostly has to do with experience, not just size. Also, in Eragon's fight with Galbatorix, it was stated how most of Galbatorix's Eldunarya were at least Glaedr's size or bigger, plus Galbatorix had his strength in numbers, yet Eragon and his Eldunarya still gave him a hard fight despite being fewer in number and having a size disadvantage, because Eragon's Eldunarya were a lot more experienced.

Barst may have been defending the capital but Murtagh was a dragon rider and Galbatorix's answer to Eragon. He is a much more valuable asset. And I don't know how inexperienced his dragons were, but he did kill Oromis and Glaedr with them. And no, Galb taking control over his body doesn't mean much because he had the same Eldunarya still. Or when he one-shotted Hrothgar. Regardless, usually when it comes to Eldunarya, numbers are more important than anything. Like how Eragon's Eldunarya were more powerful than Galb's but we're still overwhelmed by the sheer numbers, even if it was a long exhausting fight.

Evada Kedavra won't go past Murtagh's wards since they'd block the physical form of the spell. Also, Deathwords don't necessarily cause brain damage. There are 12 of them, each with a different effect. There is one that severs the blood vessels that connect to the heart, etc. and there's "deija", the simplest one, which simply means "die". And since Murtagh knows the NoN, he automatically knows every spell ever casted in the Ancient Language, which includes Deathwords.

And Murtagh's reality warping is called "The Name of Names". It controls the essence of everything, it's basically reality warping.

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TheVivas

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@randomsid:

Overwhelmed is the right word, Arya even claimed that she could do nothing against it. And I'm not talking about just when he made himself known, I'm talking about when Eragon was practicing with using Glaedr to boost his mental powers.

I thought you meant when Eragon and Arya were sparring. Lol

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TheVivas

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And just to clear things up, Murtagh's Eldunari are in fact young and inexperienced:

She frowned at him, puzzled, and he said, "I'm sorry. I can do no more. Galbatorix would know how, but it's beyond me."

"What . . . what about your Eldunari?" she asked. "Surely they can help."

He shook his head. "Young dragons all, or they were when their bodies died. They knew little of magic then, and Galbatorix has taught them almost nothing since."

Source: Inheritance

And I kinda had to give him his Eldunari since he has no feats without them..

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MrUnsmiley

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Murtagh has a chance at winning, but it depends on what magic he uses. He could easily freeze the Order in place or snap their necks, or keep the light from reaching their eyes so they can't see.

I guess it depends on whether Murtagh's wards run out before he kills everyone.

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deactivated-57d17cb96c7fc

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The Order win

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the_red_viper

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#40 the_red_viper  Moderator

@leo-343: the NoN affected magic of all sources in the IC verse, no reason why it won't affect HP magic too. Regardless, as I explained, it affects all reality. And HP magic is part of reality, correct me if I'm wrong.

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RandomSid82

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@thevivas said:

And just to clear things up, Murtagh's Eldunari are in fact young and inexperienced:

She frowned at him, puzzled, and he said, "I'm sorry. I can do no more. Galbatorix would know how, but it's beyond me."

"What . . . what about your Eldunari?" she asked. "Surely they can help."

He shook his head. "Young dragons all, or they were when their bodies died. They knew little of magic then, and Galbatorix has taught them almost nothing since."

Source: Inheritance

And I kinda had to give him his Eldunari since he has no feats without them..

Yes, they are young, but he was talking here about knowledge, not power. Even the youngest dragon Eldunari can store more energy than any gem(except maybe the Star Sapphire of the dwarves).

@leo-343 said:

@the_red_viper: No, the NON only affects the magic in the Eragon universe, to say it affects all magic doesn't make any sense. There's no reason why it work in the HP universe. HP and Eragon magic aren't the same.

After seeing that he has the Eldunari he does win.

I would say that the Name of names would effect all magic that uses the ancient(elvish language) to cast magic, which is actually quite a few books, but not HP. But given the fact that he has the Eldunari he overwhelms their magic anyway. And if it came down to a purely physical battle for whatever reason they would stand no chance.

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the_red_viper

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#43 the_red_viper  Moderator

@leo-343: the NoN isn't the name of magic, it's the name of the Ancient Language in the Ancient Language. Since every word in the AL represents the essence of something and controls it, like "Brisingr" is the essence of fire and thus controls fire, therefore the NoN is the essence of the AL and controls everything that has to do with the AL. Which is pretty much everything and all reality. The NoN can control fire since the AL has the word "Brisingr", it can control lightning since it has the word "kveykva", and it can control magic since it has the word... I don't remember what's the word for magic in the AL but you catch my drift. HP magic falls under the category of "magic" as a whole, therefore the NoN will have effects in it. Just like it had effects in Saphira and Elva whose magic does not come from the AL itself. When Brom started teaching Eragon about magic, he explained that magic depends on the user's imagination, and that a talented spell caster could speak the AL word for "water" and create a diamond, although nobody but the spell caster himself understands the connection between water and diamond. So Murtagh can affect HP magic very easily. And yes, the NoN will work perfectly in DC and Marvel and in any other verse for that matter. It's by all means a method of reality warping, and a very powerful one, especially with Eldunari.

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#45 the_red_viper  Moderator

@leo-343: you heard me, sister.

Seriously though I just explained how the NoN is a reality warping ability that should and would affect any and all magic in TIC, HP, DC, Marvel and any other verse.

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#47 the_red_viper  Moderator

@leo-343: of course it will, just like it worked on Saphira whose magic isn't rooted in the AL, or any other language for that matter. Or Elva.

Like I said, it's reality warping. Murtagh doesn't even have to use it. He can just speak the AL word for "magic" and that'd be enough. The NoN has absolute control over pretty much anything by its definition.

By your logic, no super-power of any character in all fiction would work on any character from a different verse since each verse has its own rules.

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Eisenfauste

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Murtagh would take a big ol' dooky on them.

He would literally speed blitz considering he knows he's going up against a group of magic users, that or spew out death words off the start.

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Murtagh would take a big ol' dooky on them.

He would literally speed blitz considering he knows he's going up against a group of magic users, that or spew out death words off the start.

We don't know that he knows them.