#1 Posted by A_Nonny_Moose (101 posts) - - Show Bio

We all know that the regular Living Tribunal was no match but what about the Multi-Living Tribunal? 
 
Battle is on Marvel Earth.
 

   
#2 Posted by JediXMan (32053 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure MM has this.

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#3 Posted by A_Nonny_Moose (101 posts) - - Show Bio
@Phoenix of the Black Throne: That's what people said about Eternity but there is a Multi-Eternity. There's a multi everything for every god and abstract.
#4 Posted by JediXMan (32053 posts) - - Show Bio
@A_Nonny_Moose said:
" @Phoenix of the Black Throne: That's what people said about Eternity but there is a Multi-Eternity. There's a multi everything for every god and abstract. "
Living Tribunal is different. Just because there's multiple ___ doesn't mean there is a multiple everything.
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#5 Posted by A_Nonny_Moose (101 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
" @A_Nonny_Moose said:
" @Phoenix of the Black Throne: That's what people said about Eternity but there is a Multi-Eternity. There's a multi everything for every god and abstract. "
Living Tribunal is different. Just because there's multiple ___ doesn't mean there is a multiple everything. " 
I don't get it. I mean Eternity represents the main universe and multi eternity represents all of the universes. There's the Living Tribunal in the main universe so wouldn't he have counterparts? What about the Living Tribunal in what if stories and all that?
#6 Posted by JediXMan (32053 posts) - - Show Bio
@A_Nonny_Moose said:
" @JediXMan said:
" @A_Nonny_Moose said:
" @Phoenix of the Black Throne: That's what people said about Eternity but there is a Multi-Eternity. There's a multi everything for every god and abstract. "
Living Tribunal is different. Just because there's multiple ___ doesn't mean there is a multiple everything. " 
I don't get it. I mean Eternity represents the main universe and multi eternity represents all of the universes. There's the Living Tribunal in the main universe so wouldn't he have counterparts? What about the Living Tribunal in what if stories and all that? "
Different beings, different rules. And the Living Tribunal resides in all universes.
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#7 Posted by Prince of Saiyans (2089 posts) - - Show Bio

If there was such a thing as multi LT, Owen still kicks his ass. 

#8 Posted by Hellos (8870 posts) - - Show Bio
 Infinity x 4 = pointless.
 
@A_Nonny_Moose
said:
"I don't get it. I mean Eternity represents the main universe and multi eternity represents all of the universes. There's the Living Tribunal in the main universe so wouldn't he have counterparts? What about the Living Tribunal in what if stories and all that? "
 
He's god's right hand man.  
He's omnipresent, omniscient and 2nd on the food chain next to the writers. 

 

A lot of things don't make sense this is just how it is.
#9 Posted by JediXMan (32053 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hellos: 
 
Indeed.
 
PS: Wouldn't he be around #.....5? Aren't the Beyonder, MM, and the Heart of the Universe above him?
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#10 Posted by Hellos (8870 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
" @Hellos:   Indeed.  PS: Wouldn't he be around #.....5? Aren't the Beyonder, MM, and the Heart of the Universe above him? "

No one is packing the HoTU right now and both the Beyonder and MM have been retconned into nobodies by comparison.   
So I exclude them from the list. Although it could be argued beings with the HoTU assume the TOAA's position, it's using it's power after all.
 
Plus Thanos called him the top of the Food Chain, who am I to argue with Thanos? 

 
#11 Posted by LT1085 (3677 posts) - - Show Bio
@A_Nonny_Moose: gtfo.
#12 Posted by JediXMan (32053 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hellos: 
 
Ah yes, the retcons. True, true. Has LT done anything lately?
 
I thought the HotU had a part of the One Above All's power, not all of it? I still need to read that.
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#13 Posted by A_Nonny_Moose (101 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: @Hellos: Oh darn. Well I feel foolish now >__< Thanks for explaining.  
 
@LT1085 said:
" @A_Nonny_Moose: gtfo. "
no need to be rude.
#14 Edited by Hellos (8870 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:

" @Hellos:   Ah yes, the retcons. True, true. Has LT done anything lately?  I thought the HotU had a part of the One Above All's power, not all of it? I still need to read that. "



Define lately. :P
Outside being mentioned as someone Hercules should call in to stop the Chaos King(CIS Ftw), he hasn't been doing much.  
Considering some of these events sort of fit his job description to pop in and stop the Cancerverse from screwing around with the multiverse. 
 
But I figure his lack of appearances and just being mentioned has to do with writers wanting to ignore LT so he doesn't snap his fingers and  fix the problems himself. 
 
Apparently it taps into that power, it's debatable if Thanos achieved the power of the writers, which sounds like utter nonsense to me anyways.  
Doesn't help that LT and friends resisted being absorbed along with the rest of the MU into Thanos, which could either make the case for Thanos not having full control over said power or his ability to draw on it is limited placing him under the TOAA. 
 
edit: Resisted for a short time, Thanos eventually got LT, Eternity and Infinity inside him then the MU.
#15 Posted by Prince CortSether (2435 posts) - - Show Bio

As stated, there's only one LT. 

#16 Posted by weaponxxx (429 posts) - - Show Bio

I was ready to give this one handily to the Living Tribunal given that the rule of thumb is he's pretty much second only to TOAA. But some people are confident in Molecule Man's victory. I guess I don't know too much on Owen Reese's pre-Retcon capabilities. Anyone care to fill me in?

#17 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1270 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponxxx said:
" I was ready to give this one handily to the Living Tribunal given that the rule of thumb is he's pretty much second only to TOAA. But some people are confident in Molecule Man's victory. I guess I don't know too much on Owen Reese's pre-Retcon capabilities. Anyone care to fill me in? "
Agreed. Its really weird to me. They say TOAA is well..just like the name says. But then they go and make characters that are just as, if not ABOVE him...makes no sense to me...same for LT
#18 Posted by Prince CortSether (2435 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponxxx said:
" I was ready to give this one handily to the Living Tribunal given that the rule of thumb is he's pretty much second only to TOAA. But some people are confident in Molecule Man's victory. I guess I don't know too much on Owen Reese's pre-Retcon capabilities. Anyone care to fill me in? "
He was the only one who was considered to have a chance against Pre-Retcon Beyonder (though Beyonder was still way more powerful than PR MM). Living Tribunal basically pleaded to Owen for help which by extension would make PR MM > LT. 
#19 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1270 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether:  again..i still have no idea how writers make someone more powerful than LT, if he trully is 2nd. Than no one should be more powerfull besides TOAA and they even made characters who could rival him. I just dont get it
#20 Posted by Prince CortSether (2435 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFlash4740 said:
" @Prince CortSether:  again..i still have no idea how writers make someone more powerful than LT, if he trully is 2nd. Than no one should be more powerfull besides TOAA and they even made characters who could rival him. I just dont get it "
That's why Beyonder and Molecule Man were retconned :P 
 
There are certain instances where people have temporarily become more powerful than LT. One way is to get a hold of the Heart of the Universe, which basically has the power of TOAA in it. Another time was when Protege copied the LT's power as well as a bunch of others and became more powerful than LT. However, a celestial from the future named Scathan came and contained Protege and then LT absorbed Protege into himself, regaining his number 2 spot. But a lot of people don't like that arc because it made a celestial have more power than LT. lol
#21 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1270 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether:  lmao yea wtf, How would a celestial do that. Scathan is the leader of them all though isnt he? I know they're gods and all but, they shouldn't be close to LT.
#22 Edited by Freefa11 (2453 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know much about the LT's early history, but the events in Secret Wars I & II happened like 30 years ago. LT's role as second to TOAA may not have been as thoroughly ingrained back then. I remember reading Warlock Chronicles #1 back after the Infinity Gauntlet Saga wrapped up in the early-mid 90's, and when LT said he served a far higher power, it seemed like it was something of a revelation. 
 
In fact, from what I recall, prior to that, Eternity and Living Tribunal were viewed as basically peers to some extent. Since then it has certainly been clear that the LT is actually vastly superior to him.  
 
Basically, I think it's possible precon MM was more a result of Marvel not having a fully fleshed-out cosmic hierarchy at the time. Although I have a hard time arguing against PIS, since even in SWI, when he wasn't directly compared to the LT, I thought it was completely ridiculous to make a character who gained the power to casually rebuild galaxies via some random chemical spill. Yeah, apparently random chemicals can make you God in the Marvel Universe. 
 
To be fair to precon Beyonder, he was intended to come from outside the normal MU altogether, and I actually thought he was kind of interesting in SWI. Not so much in SWII. Was kind of funny watching him provoke the Celestials by threatening to blow up the universe though.

Like I said though, I'm not that familiar with their early history. My understanding is that LT and Eternity were both introduced in Dr. Strange & related comics, and that's a character I have really never been interested in. 
 
 @TheFlash4740: No, Scathan was a completely random creation that has never appeared before or since that event. One reason for considering him PIS, even aside from him apparently trumping the Living Tribunal, is that he is completely redundant; his role is to approve or disapprove of events. However, the role of the LT is already to judge the cosmic significance of events. So yeah, they have essentially the exact same role in the universe, which sounds pretty stupid and pointless, and really makes it feel like the writers just wanted to make someone (Protege) who could beat even LT, but then they realized they had kind of a problem if even LT couldn't win, so they invented Scathan to get themselves out of the jam. 
 
Anyway, it's all very stupid, and as far as the rest of Marvel continuity goes, Scathan may as well not exist.

#23 Edited by UNKILLABLE (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: pre retcon beyonder is stronger than toaa they thought he was too powerful and covered it up so beyonder is 1

#24 Posted by rolldestroyer (3544 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol. "Multi-Living Tribunal"???

There's only one LT in all realities, he exists in all of them simultaneously.

#25 Edited by JediXMan (32053 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: pre retcon beyonder is stronger than toaa they thought he was too powerful and covered it up so beyonder is 1

That was never proven.

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#26 Edited by KingOfAsh (3934 posts) - - Show Bio

There is only one Living Tribunal, and Pre-Recton Molecule Man still beats him/it.

On the subject on Multi-Eternity...

There was once mention of a Multi-Eternity who "ensures a boundless multiverse," but this is a highly debated subject. Whether this was a character or concept is unclear. The idea of a multiversal Eternity creates problems with the hierarchy of the cosmic order and no "multi" versions of other cosmic abstracts have ever been mentioned. Generally, multiversal issues are handled by the Living Tribunal and most regard the concept of a Multi-Eternity as an erroneous statement, as can happen from time to time within continuity.

#27 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (24419 posts) - - Show Bio

"Multi-living tribunal"? I suppose I am missing something?

#28 Posted by lowlaville (5670 posts) - - Show Bio

as far as i know... pre retcon molecule man used to use a wand.....is he that strong?

#29 Posted by Jigen879 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

living tribunal wins easy

how can molucole win if his power is manipulation of the matter instead the living tribunal is incorporeal, that he did not matter to manipulate

#30 Edited by kyrees (7503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jigen879 said:

living tribunal wins easy

how can molucole win if his power is manipulation of the matter instead the living tribunal is incorporeal, that he did not matter to manipulate

dude, LT asked help on pre-retcon MM to stop pre-retcon beyonder in panel. what kind of logic are you using now ? metaphor BS or meaning stupidity ?!

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#31 Edited by Kingant27 (11505 posts) - - Show Bio

Current LT might win, before he died..

#32 Posted by Jigen879 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees:

oh my god, you again ??? stalker kami tenchi !!!

listen, think

the powers of the molecule controlling matter at the molecular level right?

Living Tribunal is abstract incorporeal, he is not matter

So how can he damage if he can not handle his matter that does not exist?

#33 Posted by kyrees (7503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jigen879 said:

@kyrees:

oh my god, you again ??? stalker kami tenchi !!!

listen, think

the powers of the molecule controlling matter at the molecular level right?

Living Tribunal is abstract incorporeal, he is not matter

So how can he damage if he can not handle his matter that does not exist?

oh god, you hard headed person. why is it so hard for you to think. the panels has shown LT to be weaker to both pre-retcon MM and pre-retcon beyonder. why even contradict that ?! for once use your comic sense and not make yourself more stupid.

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#34 Posted by Jigen879 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees:

but the funny thing is that you have not read the comic

there is not the tribunal asking for help absolutely

could you explain to me how can he win?

that is, he controls the matter, right?

but if the Tribunal is not materi what could he do?

is simple logic

#35 Posted by kyrees (7503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jigen879: oh god, have you even read secret wars at all ?! all the cosmic pantheon practically asked MM to stop beyonder. the tribunal is there.

what you are applying is simplistic stupid logic and not even a small amount of comic sense. what kind of comic reader are you ?!

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#36 Posted by Jigen879 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees:

not only read the scan, I believe that you did not read it right, but more comics

however, the important thing is to believe

#37 Posted by kyrees (7503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jigen879: the more important thing to use your head and start reading the comics and not rely on logic outside the comics. you are making yourself very dumb with this post

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#38 Posted by Jigen879 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees:

your advice is to stop using the logic, and read comics?

however, in that scan nobody asks for help !!!

#39 Edited by kyrees (7503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jigen879: the fact that pantheon made way for MM and they followed his advice is enough to tell on how powerful he was. have you even read the whole secret wars at all ?!

god you are a stupid comic reader.

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#40 Edited by Jigen879 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees:

I believe that you point to the moderators, you are very rude, you can tell your friend to a stupid, not to people you do not know the first

and I'm trying to say that in that scan nobody asks for help !!!

you have a scan where asking for help?

moderators act against kyrees that offends people

@jigen879: the fact that pantheon made way for MM and they followed his advice is enough to tell on how powerful he was. have you even read the whole secret wars at all ?!

god you are a stupid comic reader.

#41 Edited by kyrees (7503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jigen879: i believe you are stupid because you are using flawed logic to say things that panel has shown at all. you don't remember the comic enough to even see the whole context of the fight. you revive said thread with such flawed logic. so what do i call you then ? not bright ?

as far as i remember it was Uatu who represented them and it's also shown on panel that LT begged beyonder not to kill death.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/pre-retcon-molecule-man-vs-the-alien-entity-1528492/

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#42 Posted by Jigen879 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees:

enough, it is useless to talk to you, you bring a scan, where no one asks for help

So just, if you have serious arguments well, if no hello

#43 Edited by kyrees (7503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jigen879: read the link i gave you and tell me where did you get that stupid notion that living tribunal is more powerful the PR MM ?

it's you who has no arguments here. i may have remembered the secret wars differently but your notion that MM is no match to LT is even more ludicrous.

don't bump similar threads like this.

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#44 Posted by MySuperior (386 posts) - - Show Bio

LT