Ms.Marvel Vs. Wonder Woman No lasso

•No Prep •Morals off

Current Wonder Woman? Probably Ms Marvel due to lack of any significant strength feat other than shattering GL's construct, blinding Darkseid and making Superman bleed with a kick, because we dont have feats to showcase any of their durability.

Pre New 52 Wonderwoman would stop though, she's definitely stronger probably even faster and a LOT more skilled.

Lol.

Diana. Even n52 Diana could win this effortlessly.

Binary Ms. Marvel was the only one who had a chance here

@Lady_Liberty said:

Lol.

Diana. Even n52 Diana could win this effortlessly.

How would n52 Diana win? I have read all her solo series and her appearence in JLA and cant recall a feat that proves she's stronger or faster (coz i am like 100% sure the writers intended her to be, at the very least stronger than Ms Marvel, but i am trying to figure out a feat to shows that), do you know of any? Coz i seriously dont recall her doing anything significant. He recently got absolutely stomped by Apollo but is fighting him next, if she wins that probably could use that in some sort.. IDK.

@society619 said:

Binary Ms. Marvel was the only one who had a chance here

Agaisnt current Wonder Woman or pre-flashpoint?

I am trying to make a case for current Wonder Woman but i can remember of any objective feat to prove her above Carol, pre new 52 Wonder Woman would probably beat even Binary, Gladiator beat her with few punches and Wonder Woman should at the very least be as strong as Gladiator if not stronger, as fast if not faster and well sure as hell is a lot more skilled. I dont see Binary beating Wonder Woman.

@Killemall said:

@society619 said:

Binary Ms. Marvel was the only one who had a chance here

Agaisnt current Wonder Woman or pre-flashpoint?

I am trying to make a case for current Wonder Woman but i can remember of any objective feat to prove her above Carol, pre new 52 Wonder Woman would probably beat even Binary, Gladiator beat her with few punches and Wonder Woman should at the very least be as strong as Gladiator if not stronger, as fast if not faster and well sure as hell is a lot more skilled. I dont see Binary beating Wonder Woman.

I assume current WW

@JohnnyWalker said:

@society619 said:

hope this is a joke, because this is not canon. it was a popularity contest.

It was a joke, I also found it funny how defensive you just got right there

I'd assume Diana, but in regards to that scan... why does Wonder Woman have to deflect those again? She isn't bulletproof?

@SuperStarKirby said:

I'd assume Diana, but in regards to that scan... why does Wonder Woman have to deflect those again? She isn't bulletproof?

It's still an Amazon custom.

I'd go with with WW on this one. It's not as if it was ever her lasso that was her only shot of beating Ms. Marvel.

@Killemall said:

@Lady_Liberty said:

Lol.

Diana. Even n52 Diana could win this effortlessly.

How would n52 Diana win? I have read all her solo series and her appearence in JLA and cant recall a feat that proves she's stronger or faster (coz i am like 100% sure the writers intended her to be, at the very least stronger than Ms Marvel, but i am trying to figure out a feat to shows that), do you know of any? Coz i seriously dont recall her doing anything significant. He recently got absolutely stomped by Apollo but is fighting him next, if she wins that probably could use that in some sort.. IDK.

Actually Diana travels at speeds with Superman, I'm pretty sure she has Binary beat with that...

Wonder Woman, obviously.

That was funny.

@Killemall said:

@Lady_Liberty said:

Lol.

Diana. Even n52 Diana could win this effortlessly.

How would n52 Diana win? I have read all her solo series and her appearence in JLA and cant recall a feat that proves she's stronger or faster (coz i am like 100% sure the writers intended her to be, at the very least stronger than Ms Marvel, but i am trying to figure out a feat to shows that), do you know of any? Coz i seriously dont recall her doing anything significant. He recently got absolutely stomped by Apollo but is fighting him next, if she wins that probably could use that in some sort.. IDK.

Huh?

@Killemall said:

@society619 said:

Binary Ms. Marvel was the only one who had a chance here

Agaisnt current Wonder Woman or pre-flashpoint?

I am trying to make a case for current Wonder Woman but i can remember of any objective feat to prove her above Carol, pre new 52 Wonder Woman would probably beat even Binary, Gladiator beat her with few punches and Wonder Woman should at the very least be as strong as Gladiator if not stronger, as fast if not faster and well sure as hell is a lot more skilled. I dont see Binary beating Wonder Woman.

Pretty sure this is just Ms. Marvel and not Binary, unless of course I haven't been keeping up and Carol is Binary once again.

@society619 said:

Binary Ms. Marvel was the only one who had a chance here

Wonder Woman stooooomp

@SuperStarKirby said:

I'd assume Diana, but in regards to that scan... why does Wonder Woman have to deflect those again? She isn't bulletproof?

There are three lines of thought on her Bullets and Bracelet routine

1) The way John Byrne explained it was that she has high durability towards blunt impact like punches but sharp/tiny object can still penetrate her skin.

2) Her bracelets produce a personal force-field that protects her from all damage (physical and energy) but the field is not perfect and small objects can penetrate it.

3) She just a arrogant "B" and does it to show her skills in combat and demoralize her opponents. (I personally have always like this one...LOL)

WW.

@mcool135 said:

Actually Diana travels at speeds with Superman, I'm pretty sure she has Binary beat with that...

Apart from 2 instances, one where he tagged flash while it seemed Flash clearly underestated him and other instance when Superman was right there talking to flash when he was running really fast, Superman himself hasnt been seen that past. Pre-new 52 i have no doubt Diana is way more powerful, even in new 52 i am pretty sure writers intended her to be more powerful but as far as a perfectly quantifiable feat goes, she doesnt really have any thus far (havent read WW 11 yet so at least not until WW 10).

@Evil Incarnate said:

He recently got absolutely stomped by Apollo but is fighting him next, if she wins that probably could use that in some sort.. IDK.

Huh?

I meant She recently got stomped by Apollo :p i dont know where he came from :p

@Killemall said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

He recently got absolutely stomped by Apollo but is fighting him next, if she wins that probably could use that in some sort.. IDK.

Huh?

I meant She recently got stomped by Apollo :p i dont know where he came from :p

Really? I don't ever see Apollo being a match for her, but I'm just a fan and not a writer...

@Evil Incarnate said:

Really? I don't ever see Apollo being a match for her, but I'm just a fan and not a writer...

Oh i think you are getting the Apollo wrong because there are 2 Apollo, one from stormwatch who probably isnt a match from Wonder Woman, however, there is a different Apollo that appeared in Wonder Woman solo issue, the encounter i am talking about happened in Wonder Woman Issue 11. He is one of the gods and the brother of Artemis.

So i meanhttp://www.comicvine.com/apollo/29-6017/instead of as opposed tohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_(comics)

Just in case you wanna see the fight, here are the scans for you.

Gallery

Wonder Woman.

if we are talking new 52. i am thinking that ms. marvel has a shot here. wonder woman has little in the way of feats here. 

Ms.Marvel stomps.

@jeanroygrant said:

wonder woman stomps.

fixed

@Killemall: pre new 52 wonder woman,is way,way fater than ms marvel,in both,combat speed and reaction speed,and much more durable and a much better fighter than ms marvel.

Wonder Woman stomps.

@gokuwarrior said:

@Killemall: pre new 52 wonder woman,is way,way fater than ms marvel,in both,combat speed and reaction speed,and much more durable and a much better fighter than ms marvel.

I dont understand when have i disagreed that. What i am however saying is current Wonder woman (new 52) doesnt really have much feats to show that. I though that was pretty clear from my first post.

@Killemall: i responded to a comment where you said that pre new 52 wonder woman is probably faster than ms marvel,so whyi wanted to clarify that pre 52 wonder woman is way faster than ms marvel,in both combat speed and reaction speed.

@gokuwarrior said:

@Killemall: i responded to a comment where you said that pre new 52 wonder woman is probably faster than ms marvel,so whyi wanted to clarify that pre 52 wonder woman is way faster than ms marvel,in both combat speed and reaction speed.

Oh lol sorry i though you replied to another comment, my mistake. The reason i use the word "probably" is because when it comes to pure speed feat (more reaction than travel) Wonder Woman doesnt have a feat that outright puts her above Ms Marvel, however for anyone who's consistently followed a wonder woman issue its obvious that she's meant to be really fast. I know there have been statement thrown around saying Wonder Woman has faster combat speed than Superman which i dont really buy but there are people who do and quite reasonably so, and Superman himself has nanosecond reaction time which pretty much is a quantifiable feat to show he is faster than Ms. Marvel by quite a margin. Wonder woman doesnt have that luxury, i know she's blocked multiple light based attacks , deflected bullets from a machine guns etc but that generally isnt used to as an outright speed or reaction feat because street level tend to replicate that as well. Hobgoblin has blocked light based attack (not multiple in one go like Wonder Woman nor as consistently as her but has blocked few one off attacks), so has captain America on a rather consistent basis, Spiderman has caught bullets, so has venom, so has hulk (RPG rather than bullet in his case), Thunderbolt has blocked multiple bullets fired from a rifle from a short distance etc. Till date i have never seen Wonder Woman blitz anyone apart from that one time Amazo stating "i almost forgot how fast she really is" which i do not think quantifies as a blitz nor do we know how fast she was going, although i do not claim to have read every issue with Wonder Woman in it, i however have read every post crisis solo issues of Wonder Woman (it came in a DVD and i think i still have 6 more issue to go from way way way back but will get to that eventually). There are other instances as well like Wonder Woman after being series being able to block/dodge every punch from Power Girl, not again problem is we don't know how fast she was going.. there are numerous examples like this but hard to pin point a feat that unambiguously proves she's faster.

So in short i am just trying to justify why i used the probably, although if one thinks or argues Wonder Woman is faster than Ms Marvel i see no reason to disagree, nor do i think any of what i have stated thus far should have any bearing on the battle in hand since i for one agree WW should curbstomp MsMarvel.

Wonder Woman easy

@Killemall: wonder woman has blocked lightnings,that's half the speed of light,she has blocked magical lightnings that are even faster,she has blocked light speed asttacks,like superman heat vision and darksied omega beams,she has tagged flash when he was out of control and couldn't stop,she also tagged a bloodlusted flash,she took flash out of the speed force,she fought against a bloodlusted superman from sun back to earth in seconds,she was able to catch a moving micro particle when flash couldn't,she blocked the sky fateher attack from the gods,etc.

she blitzed powergirl from canada,she blitzed ares,genocide,silver swan,omacs etc,and she also is able to fight at high speed,she has been shown giving countles hits,punches and kicks at super speed.

While I think the fight will be closer than it seems a lot of people are making it sound, I still agree Wonder Woman would win a commanding majority of the fights. Even though I'm a fan of the Ms. Marvel character I really don't see her being able to keep up with Wonder Woman in a long drawn fight.

@Nefarious said:

Wonder Woman stomps.

As simple as this

@gokuwarrior said:

@Killemall: wonder woman has blocked lightnings,that's half the speed of light,she has blocked magical lightnings that are even faster,she has blocked light speed asttacks,like superman heat vision and darksied omega beams,she has tagged flash when he was out of control and couldn't stop,she also tagged a bloodlusted flash,she took flash out of the speed force,she fought against a bloodlusted superman from sun back to earth in seconds,she was able to catch a moving micro particle when flash couldn't,she blocked the sky fateher attack from the gods,etc.

she blitzed powergirl from canada,she blitzed ares,genocide,silver swan,omacs etc,and she also is able to fight at high speed,she has been shown giving countles hits,punches and kicks at super speed.

Firstly, before you read any of this i am not really disagreeing with you per say, nor am i saying wonder woman is slow, i am just trying to justify why i used the word "probably" and in case you do know a instance where she has undoubtedly shown to be faster i would appreciate because then i can myself use that on a later occasion to justify wonder woman's speed. There are times below when i have asked for issue number or scans its not because i do not believe in you but rather would like to go check it out myself because at times context is involved.

I believe i did address this before, because Captain America for one on constant basis has blocked light based attack even magical lightnings so i wouldnt count that as much of a feat.

She has tagged flash? Pretty much every encounter i can remember with her and flash (only 2 that i recall) she always had problem with flash and his speed, Cheetah whom she herself stated was as fast as flash was clearly blitzing her then we have Zoom blitz her but well he's Zoom so no comments there.

Gallery

I only know her fighting a bloodlusted Superman in Superman: Confidential where i do not remember the whole sun to back in earth feat because she did not travel back she was punched, is there any other instance she's fought a bloodlusted Superman?

Gallery

Do you have an issue number or scan for the micro particle thingy, firstly i have never seen that before and secondly find it kind of hard to believe since it was been well established that Flash is lot faster than WW throughout various comics unless you are talking about flash before Flash 100 where he was limited to speed of sound.

Blocked skyfather attacks? I assume you are talking Wonder Woman V2 21 where she blocks a combined attack from 3 top gods (along with other minor ones) , i dont see how speed is concerned there.

Gallery

She never blitz Power girl if we are talking about the same issue (V3 40 and 41).

Gallery

When has she blitz ares? I recall few encounters between ares and Wonder Woman (v2 Issue 6) where Ares easily pwned her before the whole PIS kicked in, another encounter was when in V3 Issue 33 where she used his own weapon which Ares himself gave her against him. I have never seen her blitz nor even come close to blitzing Ares, do you have a issue number of scan for this?

Gallery

I am finding it very hard to believe she's blitz Genocide because when she fought Genocide in WW v3 28 she got stomped and needed help from entire justice league + a special battle armor to finally beat Genocide. Again what issue number are we talking about because to the best of my knoweledge Genocide hasnt appeared before or ever since after that story arc.

Gallery

Since most of Silver Swarm appearance takes places in her solo issue i am fairly certain this has never happened post crisis, could you tell me the issue number from which you got this most likely you are talking a pre-crisis story.

Omac instance i do not know but i do know the whole Omac thingy happened in a crossover so most likely i haven't read it at all, but would like to go check it out if you have any scans or issue number.

The rest are not really a quantifiable feat to show she is definitely faster.

@Killemall: ok,now you're just trolling.

and cap america?,really?,top lightning speed is half the speed of light,cap america can't react that fast,that's PIS and you know it,and she blocked magical lightnings faster than half speed of light,and street level characters can't react that fast,not without PIS.

WW had problems with flash speed,true,but ms marvel would be crushed by his speed,WW was able to tag a bloodlusted flash,that's a good feat,WW blitzed powergirl from canada,powergirl punched her to canada,then WW said "i have super speed too",and the instant after that,she was back in the US taking powergirl down,it was a clear speed blitz,she speed blitzed silver swan in WW v2,that's post.-crissis,the blast from the gods is a very good speed feat,do you think that the blash from 3 gods combined is slow?,and the first genocide fight wasn't good,but in other fight after that,she defeated genocide alone and without special armor,and that's where she showed a speed feat.

WW blocked heat vision from superman,and it has been stated to be fast as light,the same with darksied omega beams.

i'll try to find the scans.

@gokuwarrior said:

@Killemall: ok,now you're just trolling.

How? I told you specifically i do agree she is really fast but what i cant find is a feat to outright put her faster.

and cap america?,really?,top lightning speed is half the speed of light,cap america can't react that fast,that's PIS and you know it,and she blocked magical lightnings faster than half speed of light,and street level characters can't react that fast,not without PIS.

Its not only cap, so has deadpool , so has Iron Fist and so has Hobgoblin, that is why i say lightnings and light based attack in comics dont see to work as fast. Thats a reason why people dont generally use those as a quantifiable reaction feat.

WW had problems with flash speed,true,but ms marvel would be crushed by his speed,WW was able to tag a bloodlusted flash,that's a good feat,WW blitzed powergirl from canada,powergirl punched her to canada,then WW said "i have super speed too",and the instant after that,she was back in the US taking powergirl down,it was a clear speed blitz,she speed blitzed silver swan in WW v2,that's post.-crissis,the blast from the gods is a very good speed feat,do you think that the blash from 3 gods combined is slow?,and the first genocide fight wasn't good,but in other fight after that,she defeated genocide alone and without special armor,and that's where she showed a speed feat.

When did i ever say Ms Marvel could even deal with Flash, but i do not believe Wonder Woman would fare much better since he's far faster than both of them.

I have never seen Wonder Woman tag a bloodlusted flash that is why i asked or an issue number or scan.

I ever showed you the whole scan and do not think thats considered a blitz. I am not questioning she has superspeed but so does Ms Marvel i am just questioning if you have a outright reaction feat that puts him over Ms Marvel.

I have read every volume 2 of Wonder Woman dont remember that at all, could you show me a scan or an issue number.

How is that a good speed feat its not like she was unaware of the blast and look at how many panels it took for the blast to get to her, i even showed you the whole scan.

When has Wonder Woman ever fought genocide, she certianly hasnt dont so again in her solo issue and i dont remember Genocide ever making an appearence after the issue, could you give me a issue number or a scan?

WW blocked heat vision from superman,and it has been stated to be fast as light,the same with darksied omega beams.

i'll try to find the scans.

Heat vision from Superman yes and the scan is right there in the fight i posted, Superman Sacrifice. Blocking Darkseid's omega beam is from Superman/ Batman Issue 13 which i have with me right now. I dont see how either of them doesnt qualify as a light based attack i am not disagreeing with any of these.

and i really though you were a credible debator, and have tried to talk to you with otmost respect but should you call me a troll again i will have to flag you, not flagging this time out of respect. Also i havent done any trolling i even showed you scans of every battle we are discussing, dont use that as a cop-out .

@Killemall:sorry but i'm tired of people that try to make wonder woman less,people that try to make seem useless everything she does.

i don't consider valid that street level characters can rect at half the speed of light to block lightings,i'm not buying that.

darksied's omega beams are very fast,and she wasn't there when he released the beams,still she came and blocked them,wonder woman has way better speed feats than ms marvel,ms marvel almost hasn't speed feats,and its funny that you say probably,when it's obious that ms marvel hasn't any speed feat to put her in the same league with wonder woman.

@gokuwarrior: I dont think he's "trolling" to be honest. I've read over his posts and in theory he's actually agreeing that WW should win. However he does raise some good questions. I havent been keeping up with New 52 Wonder Woman but she doesnt seem to have anywhere near the feats her Pre-52 counterpart did/does. Especially in-regards to speed (but I could be wrong). I think he's simply asking for someone to prove it instead of just saying, "Its Wonder Woman, of course she's faster." She may very well be but has she shown it Post new 52?

@gokuwarrior said:

@Killemall:sorry but i'm tired of people that try to make wonder woman less,people that try to make seem useless everything she does.

i don't consider valid that street level characters can rect at half the speed of light to block lightings,i'm not buying that.

darksied's omega beams are very fast,and she wasn't there when he released the beams,still she came and blocked them,wonder woman has way better speed feats than ms marvel,ms marvel almost hasn't speed feats,and its funny that you say probably,when it's obious that ms marvel hasn't any speed feat to put her in the same league with wonder woman.

I believe he's talking about new 52 Wonder Woman and he's right she technically doesn't have the speed feats her previous incarnation had. Whether it's due to the fact that she can't reach those speeds or the fact she no longer possesses speed of that level has yet to be determined.

@Gambler: but he was talking about pre new 52 wonder woman,he said that pre new 52 wonder woman is probably faster,and he said that pre new 52 wonder woman speed ferats don't really probe that she can fight and react way faster than ms marvel,i would agree with him if he was talking about her feats in the new 52,but he was putting into doubt her speed before the new 52,do you agree with him saying that prbobly ms marvel is just as fast as pre 52 wonder woman?.

wonder woman stomps. shes a better fighter and is more powerful than ms. marvel.

@gokuwarrior said:

@Killemall:sorry but i'm tired of people that try to make wonder woman less,people that try to make seem useless everything she does.

I am not doing that, i like wonder woman, not going to pretend she's my fav character but i do like her and i read a lot up on her and i did not even disagree once when you said she's faster nor did i disagree she can beat Ms Marvel. Heck gladiator beat Ms Marvel as binary within 6 panels and Wonder Woman has every bit of advantage over gladiator barring a nanosecond reaction time that he was shown.

i don't consider valid that street level characters can rect at half the speed of light to block lightings,i'm not buying that.

Neither do i but it just happens so often in comics that we try and not use people blocking light based attacks and bullets to showcase someone's reaction speed. Therefore those are generally not seen as being outright proof of someone extreme reaction feat. While we are at the topic have you read Avengers: Children's Crusade? Magneto easily blocked light based attacks from point blank there too.

darksied's omega beams are very fast,and she wasn't there when he released the beams,still she came and blocked them,wonder woman has way better speed feats than ms marvel,ms marvel almost hasn't speed feats,and its funny that you say probably,when it's obious that ms marvel hasn't any speed feat to put her in the same league with wonder woman.

They probably are although i have seen Superman deflect omega beam with his heat vision after they were fired during Superman: Apokolips Now, i have seen Mary Marvel block OB fired at a short range in countdown to final crisis (feel free to ask for scans) and an iffy moment where Jimmy Olsen dodge OB LOL (which i am not going to pretend is a legit feat) etc. Also dont get angry on this but Superman/ Batman series really isnt one of the most credible comic book series you could refer to, there are other instances that happened in the series thats hard to buy like Batman by himself defeating lady shiva despite him having struggled with her every-time they have faced for about 40 years, Captain Marvel been explained as Superman's superior, Supergirl being stated to be more powerful than Superman, Superman outright beating Darkseid on his own etc. On the topic i do not think Cyclops eye beam are any slower either but storm has blocked it after it was fired by calling forth lightning etc.

Ms Marvel has superspeed when it comes to flying and all but i do not recall her using superspeed in battle but i for one havent read many Ms Marvel issues so i do not consider myself the most credible source regarding Ms Marvel feats, CitizenBane , VanceAstro and StaticShock are perhaps the people most versed with her as a character.

Also this is the third time i am saying this but Wonder Woman doesnt have a quantifiable reaction time, the same with other people who have superspeed like Makkari, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Mary Marvel etc therefore due to the lack of quantifiable reaction feat i used the word "probably" and all along did agree to anyone who though Wonder Woman was faster.

@Evil Incarnate:he was talking about pre new 52 wonder woman,he said that pre new 52 wonder woman is probably faster,and he said that pre new 52 wonder woman speed ferats don't really probe that she can fight and react way faster than ms marvel,i would agree with him if he was talking about her feats in the new 52,but he was putting into doubt her speed before the new 52,do you agree with him saying that prbobly ms marvel is just as fast as pre 52 wonder woman?,look at what he said to me,he said that pre 52 wonder woman doesn't have clear super speed feats to prove that she is undoubtedly faster than ms marvel,and i don't think you agree with that.

@Killemall: it was stated by her and batman,that she can react faster than superman,that's a good example,and during that training with the JL flash said that he is faster,but her reactions help her to compensate that different a litlle bit better,ms marvel is supersonic at her best,pre 52 wonder woman is faster than half speed of light on normal conditions,and has been stated to react faster than a nano second,and she has blocked dodge attacks faster than half speeed of light,i'll finds some scans.