Ms. Marvel vs Grey Hulk

Already happened

Ms. Marvel easily. The Grey Hulk is quite weak compared to the big green guy.

I am not that sure about the outcome after Hulk Smash Avengers #4:

though Ms marvles beat up grey hulk at the begining, it doesn't mean she Ko'd him.

@Charlie_Jade said:

Green Hulk would probably be a better fight

Ms Marvel is too strong, too fast and can BFR Grey Hulk

Thats the next part of Death Certificates scans.I alas dont have the next part.She beats the piss out of Fixit and he then changes to Savage Hulk

@TheAcidSkull said:

though Ms marvles beat up grey hulk at the begining, it doesn't mean she Ko'd him.

She didnt he turned into Green Hulk right after that and gave her a beatdown

I still think Carol takes this quite handily

@Sherlock: why does that matter? it still doesn't mean that Joe was Ko'd, and Ms marvel couldn't do anything against savage hulk.

MM will dominate as the fight begins but joe can get stronger and more durable too.

@Sherlock: why does that matter? it still doesn't mean that Joe was Ko'd, and Ms marvel couldn't do anything against savage hulk.

MM will dominate as the fight begins but joe can get stronger and more durable too.

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Sherlock: why does that matter? it still doesn't mean that Joe was Ko'd, and Ms marvel couldn't do anything against savage hulk.

MM will dominate as the fight begins but joe can get stronger and more durable too.

Ok first off Ms Marvel Vs Savage Hulk is by no means a stomp.Her advantages going into it are enormous.Flight,speed,range.All those are things that Hulk can't compete with in pretty much any incarnation.

In the scans posted Carol beat Joe bad enough for him to turn into Savage Hulk.If he was so pissed that he turned into Savage Hulk then Carol was beating him pretty bad.

He can only get as strong and as durable as he has been written to be.You can say forever that Hulk has limitless strength and all that but you cant prove it and it is therefore inadmissible.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Sherlock: why does that matter? it still doesn't mean that Joe was Ko'd, and Ms marvel couldn't do anything against savage hulk.

MM will dominate as the fight begins but joe can get stronger and more durable too.

A specially that we can be more than sure that Ms. Marvel is league below Wonder Man and Wonder Man couldn't take out Fixit. Not that I am saying that Fixit is equal to Wonder Man, but he seems to be in the same level. P.S. IDK why Green Hulk can't be written in way Professor, Fixit or Red Hulk are/were... At least in his current solo series we can see a good stories.

Ok so for starters thats ABC logic.That is also inadmissible in any debate.Second Ms Marvel being below Wonder Man is False.

The actual fight with Wonderman.Lets take some notes here.First off Wonderman is mind controlled and trying to kill Carol (He says it several times as a matter of fact).Next lets note that Carol is not trying to kill Wonderman,just the opposite in fact.Finally we note that there was no clear winner.Obviously Wonderman is not well above Carol in fact she would likely beat him if she was really trying

The main reasons she wins here are thus,She can fly something Hulk can't,she is considerably faster than him,she has ranged attacks,she already put a whooping on him.She has shown that she can beat him pretty bad (Bad enough that he turned to Savage Hulk) not to mention there is no reason that she couldnt just fly around and spam ranged attacks.Fixit has no defense for this and cant really hit back

@Sherlock:

Ok first off Ms Marvel Vs Savage Hulk is by no means a stomp.Her advantages going into it are enormous.Flight,speed,range.All those are things that Hulk can't compete with in pretty much any incarnation.

yet she was still unable to do anything to him. Ms can't put the hulk down, no matter how hard she hits.

In the scans posted Carol beat Joe bad enough for him to turn into Savage Hulk.If he was so pissed that he turned into Savage Hulk then Carol was beating him pretty bad.

Honestly, i have no idea why joe turned savage, the hulks don't shift incarnations according to their anger, only savage hulk becomes mindless sometimes. and thats as far as it goes, joe and hulk represents completely different accept so Joe turning in to savage hulk was WIS on jeph loebs part.

He can only get as strong and as durable as he has been written to be.You can say forever that Hulk has limitless strength and all that but you cant prove it and it is therefore inadmissible.

Hulk has shown to have limitless strength, beyonder showed that even he could not lind a limit, and it is stated numerous times in comics, and the green hulk has been written to very very strong, being able to lift two tectonic plates of a planet which is bigger than the earth. but even from that point of view, joe has overpowered wonder man, so if he is angry, he won't slack off. besides, that joe was written out of character, he usually fights smarter than that.

Ok so for starters thats ABC logic.That is also inadmissible in any debate.Second Ms Marvel being below Wonder Man is False.

The actual fight with Wonderman.Lets take some notes here.First off Wonderman is mind controlled and trying to kill Carol (He says it several times as a matter of fact).Next lets note that Carol is not trying to kill Wonderman,just the opposite in fact.Finally we note that there was no clear winner.Obviously Wonderman is not well above Carol in fact she would likely beat him if she was really trying

The main reasons she wins here are thus,She can fly something Hulk can't,she is considerably faster than him,she has ranged attacks,she already put a whooping on him.She has shown that she can beat him pretty bad (Bad enough that he turned to Savage Hulk) not to mention there is no reason that she couldnt just fly around and spam ranged attacks.Fixit has no defense for this and cant really hit back

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Sherlock:

Ok first off Ms Marvel Vs Savage Hulk is by no means a stomp.Her advantages going into it are enormous.Flight,speed,range.All those are things that Hulk can't compete with in pretty much any incarnation.

yet she was still unable to do anything to him. Ms can't put the hulk down, no matter how hard she hits.

The same is true for him.She is more than fast enough to dodge him all day.If Spiderman can than it stands to reason that Carol can.Not to mention she can simple spam ranged attacks or do what she did to the Hulk Skrull clone

@TheAcidSkull said:

Honestly, i have no idea why joe turned savage, the hulks don't shift incarnations according to their anger, only savage hulk becomes mindless sometimes. and thats as far as it goes, joe and hulk represents completely different accept so Joe turning in to savage hulk was WIS on jeph loebs part.

Maybe so but Carol was still in canon beating the pis our of him.Most wins in comics entitle less than that.No matter how you look at it Carol won the encounter

Hulk has shown to have limitless strength, beyonder showed that even he could not lind a limit, and it is stated numerous times in comics, and the green hulk has been written to very very strong, being able to lift two tectonic plates of a planet which is bigger than the earth. but even from that point of view, joe has overpowered wonder man, so if he is angry, he won't slack off. besides, that joe was written out of character, he usually fights smarter than that.

Then prove it

Joe over powering Wonderman in my mind is silly.Wonder Man is at least class 100 (Unless you ask Samael then he class 50,000) Joe is usually written as class 70-80 IIRC.

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.It isn't ABC logic, becuase Carol and Simon have pretty much the same powers.

It is ABC because you are saying since character A can beat character B then he should be able to beat character C since character B is stronger than character C.ABC logic at its finest

2.Your scans prove nothing, becuase it is shown that Wonder Man is holding back. He is trying to block MODOK's control and was able to stop for a moment and talk with her.

Simon broke control once and the rest of the fight was literally trying to Kill Carol.Needless to say Carol was holding back through the whole thing

3.Wonder Man currently in Revengers KOd Carol and he wasn't seem to hurt at all

Scans?

And Carol is about 70 tons, right? Wonder Man is much above that level of strength and he was able to stalemate Proffesor Hulk, showed his great superiority to Thing and took down (with context behind it) Abomination. He currently defeated Red Hulk and in the past he was a threat to beings like Thor, Atlas (I am sure that Atlas lost with Wondy, but I don't recall where and how) and Count Nefaria.
Now, if she is 70 tons, how she can be compare in strength to people who are doing this

And all that right there proves either 1 that Wonderman has had a major depowerment or 2 that hes well above Fixit and isnt really relevant here to begin with.If he can take on people like professor Hulk (Above Fixit) Rulk (Above Fixit) Think (Above Fixit) and Thor (Also above Fixit) then Grey Hulk overpowering him is PIS WIS CIS and any of other induced stupidity you can think of.

@Sherlock:

Maybe so but Carol was still in canon beating the pis our of him.Most wins in comics entitle less than that.No matter how you look at it Carol won the encounter

red hulk beat up hulk, odin force thor, grandmaster, and the watcher. there was a lot of PIS in loebs run. but if we ignore, that yes carol dominated.

Then prove it

doc Sampson cannot measure hulks strength

beyonder cannot measure hulks raw power

Mad Tinker classifies Hulks Strength as incalculable.

these a 3 instances where hulk has shown to have unlimited power, and there are more, this is comics, the laws of science rarely apply. Though joe does is not able to preform feats like Holding tectonic plates of a planet like his green counterpart, but he can get mad, and he will surpass carol. though it won't be easy.

Joe over powering Wonderman in my mind is silly.Wonder Man is at least class 100 (Unless you ask Samael then he class 50,000) Joe is usually written as class 70-80 IIRC.

i know wonder mans 100 tons, and joe is definitely 70-80, no argument there, but he got angry enough to become stronger than wonder man, his base level is 70, but that doesn;t mean he can't surpass his enemies in power. i was just making a point that he can stay conscious enough to get madder and stronger than carol.

@Sherlock:

The same is true for him.She is more than fast enough to dodge him all day.If Spiderman can than it stands to reason that Carol can.Not to mention she can simple spam ranged attacks or do what she did to the Hulk Skrull clone

oops, missed this one :D, this is actually a big importance, if she could KO grey hulk before getting durable and stronger, she could take this.

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Sherlock:

Maybe so but Carol was still in canon beating the pis our of him.Most wins in comics entitle less than that.No matter how you look at it Carol won the encounter

red hulk beat up hulk, odin force thor, grandmaster, and the watcher. there was a lot of PIS in loebs run. but if we ignore, that yes carol dominated.

Then prove it

doc Sampson cannot measure hulks strength

beyonder cannot measure hulks raw power

Mad Tinker classifies Hulks Strength as incalculable.

these a 3 instances where hulk has shown to have unlimited power, and there are more, this is comics, the laws of science rarely apply. Though joe does is not able to preform feats like Holding tectonic plates of a planet like his green counterpart, but he can get mad, and he will surpass carol. though it won't be easy.

Joe over powering Wonderman in my mind is silly.Wonder Man is at least class 100 (Unless you ask Samael then he class 50,000) Joe is usually written as class 70-80 IIRC.

i know wonder mans 100 tons, and joe is definitely 70-80, no argument there, but he got angry enough to become stronger than wonder man, his base level is 70, but that doesn;t mean he can't surpass his enemies in power. i was just making a point that he can stay conscious enough to get madder and stronger than carol.

In that run the PIS only really occurred when Rulk was fighting.I didnt see anyone else get overpowered.

I think you misunderstand what i mean by limitless.

What you just proved is that no one can really gauge how strong Hulk can get.Not that he can go on for eternity (I truly dont think he can go on for eternity it just makes very little sense)

One thing to look at is WWH.How much more pissed off can you possibly get?That was pretty awful what happened there.Thats going to be damn close to anger incarnate

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Sherlock:

The same is true for him.She is more than fast enough to dodge him all day.If Spiderman can than it stands to reason that Carol can.Not to mention she can simple spam ranged attacks or do what she did to the Hulk Skrull clone

oops, missed this one :D, this is actually a big importance, if she could KO grey hulk before getting durable and stronger, she could take this.

I do believe she is capable of doing so but she still has the speed advantage and can still avoid most of his shots even when he gets stronger and more durable.

@Sherlock:

In that run the PIS only really occurred when Rulk was fighting.I didnt see anyone else get overpowered.

fair point, though loeb seems to do whatever he wants, becuase for some reason a sharp object can kill the hulk! i never really understood what happened there.

I think you misunderstand what i mean by limitless.
What you just proved is that no one can really gauge how strong Hulk can get.Not that he can go on for eternity (I truly dont think he can go on for eternity it just makes very little sense)
One thing to look at is WWH.How much more pissed off can you possibly get?That was pretty awful what happened there.Thats going to be damn close to anger incarnate

1. i'm sure he has a limit but , his strength is by all means limitless, for the readers anyways, because hulk is ,though many might not like it, marvels power incarnate.

2. someone spits in his face, calls him weak, and he just get madder, besides WWH wasn't the strongest, WBH was( though these two are basically the same).

he can get angrier.

I do believe she is capable of doing so but she still has the speed advantage and can still avoid most of his shots even when he gets stronger and more durable.

if she can KO him quickly, she can weak, grey hulk starts off weak, so carol should be able to do it. she can avoid his attacks but only for so long, grey hulk fights smart, not dumb, he doesn't brawl, he has used his intellect to best his enemies before, in Hulk #8 he seemed to act out of character. but she could win before grey hulk becomes much more stronger and durable.

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Sherlock:

fair point, though loeb seems to do whatever he wants, becuase for some reason a sharp object can kill the hulk! i never really understood what happened there.

Even a blunt object can pierce something if theres enough force going into it.Even so most of that run was silly

if she can KO him quickly, she can weak, grey hulk starts off weak, so carol should be able to do it. she can avoid his attacks but only for so long, grey hulk fights smart, not dumb, he doesn't brawl, he has used his intellect to best his enemies before, in Hulk #8 he seemed to act out of character. but she could win before grey hulk becomes much more stronger and durable.

Its not like Carol fights stupid either.She has higher base strength as well as a speed and flight advantage.Not to mention range.There isnt really anything stopping her from just spamming him with blasts and staying out of his reach.

Then you add the only fight they did have which she pretty much dominated

@CadenceV2

Most of what you posted isnt really relevant.Thing and Abomination are not as a good in h2h as Carol nor can they fly nor are they as fast nor do they have ranged attacks.

The high evolutionary bit is kinda silly.High evolutionary would wreck Fixit without even trying.

Just because there were moment of PIS in the story doesnt mean that everything was.Carol is certainly capable of taking Joe down so i dont see what that would be labeled as PIS