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#1 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

I've wondered about this for a while and never come to an answer. I like both of them (one obviously more than the other), and I don't want Mr. Majestic to lose, but that intangibility (working in concert with everything else) makes me think Manhunter will win. Strength? Not a problem. Speed? Not a problem. Durability? Not a problem. Martian vision? Not a problem. Intelligence? MM's not an idiot, but it's not a problem. Shape shifting? Might cause trouble, but not too much. Telepathy? Possibly a problem. Density changing/Intangibility? Problem. All of these together? BIG problem. Manhunter can attack without fear of repercussion.

That's what I think anyway. So, in a fight between these two MM's (no cosmic powers/reality warping for Majestic) who wins?

Scenario: Manhunter sees Majestic being more vicious than he thinks is appropriate while fighting a bad guy and steps in to stop him. When Manhunter gets in the way, the bad guy escapes and this angers Majestic. For some reason neither is willing to talk it out, so they fight. Each has a basic understanding of the other's powers from the files at their respective home bases. They start (both in character) in a populated city, but the whole world (and outer space) is the battle area. Both universes are merged so everything in the WSU and the DCU are fair game. No friends allowed.

Question for those with vast knowledge of Martian Manhunter. Can he/has he be(en) hurt while intangible? If so, how?


Post Edited:2007-07-16 13:58:01

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#2 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Without cosmic powers, I think it would be very close.

MM has been hurt in the past while intangible, but it was from his fire vulnerability, which he no longer has.

What is Majestic's strength level as compared to Superman? It seems there's conflicting information on this. Some sources say he's way stronger than Supes, others say he's slightly under Supes.

What is Majestic's resistance to telepathy?

#3 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't MM on the same level as Superman for Speed, Stength, etc? And I though Majestic was too.

#4 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"Isn't MM on the same level as Superman for Speed, Stength, etc? And I though Majestic was too."

That's why I was asking. MM is usually rated just slightly below or equal to Supes on these issues depending on the writer. Plus, like I said, I've gotten the impression from some sources that Majestic is supposedly much more powerful than Superman.

#5 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

Majestic as a Kherubim High Lord should have some level of telepathic resistance, as other high lords have displayed.

As for the physical side, i would give that to Majestic - stronger, faster etc.

MM's invibility power is overcome by Maj's super senses.

MM's intangibility may be circumvented by Maj's variable vision power. It can do a whole host of wacky stuff.

It really may come down to the mental dominance thing.

It's a tough one to call but I may give it just to MM.

#6 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

By the way, I'm so glad to see a battle thread where we are discussing the facts before we launch into "this is why I'm right and you're a loser."

#7 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

Prodigious Man says:

"By the way, I'm so glad to see a battle thread where we are discussing the facts before we launch into "this is why I'm right and you're a loser.""

This is as it should be - rational thought and discussion to arrive at a logical solution.

So what do you think, MM or Majestic ?

#8 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Prodigious Man says:

"Without cosmic powers, I think it would be very close.MM has been hurt in the past while intangible, but it was from his fire vulnerability, which he no longer has.What is Majestic's strength level as compared to Superman? It seems there's conflicting information on this. Some sources say he's way stronger than Supes, others say he's slightly under Supes.What is Majestic's resistance to telepathy?"

Majestic is stronger. The one time he was even suggested to be weaker was in a cross over. I'm not throwing it out just because it was a cross over, but also because nearly every WS character was out of character and some even had the wrong powers. Plus, DC had bought WS by then so that could have something to do with it. He's moved planets and comets on his own with some effort. (He did that a lot, but only in one comic. I don't think it happening in only one comic throws it out, but some people do.) He's moved spaceships bigger than mount Kilimanjaro from Earth to Pluto with no problem and a few other things like that that aren't as impressive as the planet thing, but happened in different books. He's been compared to (by more than one writer) precrisis Superman. (He's not quite that strong though, since that Superman could toss planets easily or sneeze out galaxies and crazy stuff like that.)

His telepathy resistance hasn't been tested much, but it's supposed to be good. His biggest enemy is basically an evil Martian Manhunter who's (again, supposed to be) an amazing telepath. He's from a race that spread by psychically taking over everything they come across, so they have to be at least decent, and Majestic has fought off dozens of these guys at once when they tried to take over his body. He has a lot of psychic power, but no real control, so it's mostly for defense. His psychic power was once used to strip the powers of a god (according to the comic, reality warping and such) from Zealot. Someone else had to control how the power was used, but it was all his. He's also resisted other telepaths (less powerful than MM) and has never been hurt by any psychics that have tried to fight him. So, again, it's good, but it's not been tested against someone who's shown the abilities that MM has. I was just going under the assumption that it would stand up since it's never failed before.


Post Edited:2007-07-16 14:18:29

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#9 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Prodigious Man says:
"Without cosmic powers, I think it would be very close. MM has been hurt in the past while intangible, but it was from his fire vulnerability, which he no longer has. What is Majestic's strength level as compared to Superman? It seems there's conflicting information on this. Some sources say he's way stronger than Supes, others say he's slightly under Supes. What is Majestic's resistance to telepathy?"
Majestic is stronger. The one time he was even suggested to be weaker was in a cross over. I'm not throwing it out *just* because it was a cross over, but also because nearly every WS character was *out* of character and some even had the wrong powers. Plus, DC had bought WS by then so that could have something to do with it. He's moved planets and comets on his own with some effort. (He did that a lot, but only in one comic. I don't think it happening in only one comic throws it out, but some people do.) He's moved spaceships bigger than mount Kilimanjaro from Earth to Pluto with no problem and a few other things like that that aren't as impressive as the planet thing, but happened in different books. He's been compared to (by more than one writer) precrisis Superman. (He's not quite that strong though, since that Superman could toss planets easily or sneeze out galaxies and crazy stuff like that.) His telepathy resistance hasn't been tested much, but it's supposed to be good. His biggest enemy is basically an evil Martian Manhunter whose (again, is *supposed* to be) an amazing telepath. He's from a race that spread by psychically taking over everything they come across, so they have to be at least decent, and Majestic has fought off dozens of these guys at once when they tried to take over his body. He has a lot of psychic power, but no real control, so it's mostly for defense. His psychic power was once used to strip the powers of a god (according to the comic, reality warping and such) from Zealot. Someone else had to control how the power was used, but it was all his. He's also resisted other telepaths (less powerful than MM) and has never been hurt by any psychics that have tried to fight him. So, again, it's good, but it's not been tested against someone who's shown the abilities that MM has. I was just going under the assumption that it would stand up since it's never failed before. "

That's a pretty good assumption actually.

I do tend to not favour including the planet moving stuff because it is way out of power level comapred to most of the rest of the 'DC 52'. But I take your point about his physical power levels - up on Martian Manhunter - of that there is no doubt.

What about the Laser Vision thingy. Could this actually do anything to MM while he is intangible ?

If it can then this fight got even closer.

Without the breathing space that this gives to MM, enabling him to really focus his telepathic powers, he may not have time to try and punch through maj's shields.

#10 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"What about the Laser Vision thingy. Could this actually do anything to MM while he is intangible ?If it can then this fight got even closer.Without the breathing space that this gives to MM, enabling him to really focus his telepathic powers, he may not have time to try and punch through maj's shields."

I don't really know. He's used it for weird things before (like altering matter on an atomic level, manipulating energy, reprogramming machines, and blasting heat or force) so I wouldn't say no out of hand, but he wouldn't be able to do anything with it at first since he wouldn't know how MM was becoming intangible, and having to avoid MM without being able to form a good attack would probably limit the time he has to figure out a way to make it useful. I mean, he could wade through MM's attacks and just fire different blasts and go through trial and error, but I think it's more likely that he'd waste time trying to avoid MM's attacks just to be on the safe side. He does think incredibly fast though so maybe he could come up with something while he's dodging, but since MM hasn't been hurt while immaterial, I don't know what that might be.
Post Edited:2007-07-16 14:36:43

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#11 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay the laser thing can do somethign if he uses it the right way seeing as hes abotu as smart as superman mr majestic he can all he has to do it get him at the molecular lvl and then yeah he gets hurt supermans doen ti before and strength mm is close but he has moved a planet yet from what i rememember if he has forgive me but i got mr majestic winning because mm even if hes in intangible he can use any of his powers in that state.

#12 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

I don't really know. He's used it for weird things before (like altering matter on an atomic level, manipulating energy, reprogramming machines, and blasting heat or force) so I wouldn't say no out of hand, but he wouldn't be able to do anything with it at first, and having to avoid MM without being able to form a good attack would probably limit the time he has to figure out a way to make it useful. I mean, he could wade through MM's attacks, but I think it's more likely that he'd waste time trying to avoid them just to be on the safe side. He does think incredibly fast though so maybe he could come up with something while he's dodging, but since MM hasn't been hurt while immaterial, I don't know what that might be."

What about sonic attacks.

MM still hears in intanglble form so a focussed sonic attack (with his enhanced hearing) may do sufficient damage to throw him off and buy time for Maj to come up with a plan.

As it stands, if Maj cannot hurt MM due to his intangible state and Mm cannot pirce through Maj's psionic shielding then this could end in a stalemate.

#13 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

He can get hurt in hsi intagible state all mr needs to do is get a few second of focus if hes really that smart to build glovs to help with stabiling planet im sure he could easily make his laser vision invisible so that only he could notice it then burn mm at the molecular lvl eventually leading to him having to fight back but then again i just sound like a guy who hate him lol.

#14 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"What about sonic attacks.MM still hears in intanglble form so a focussed sonic attack (with his enhanced hearing) may do sufficient damage to throw him off and buy time for Maj to come up with a plan.As it stands, if Maj cannot hurt MM due to his intangible state and Mm cannot pirce through Maj's psionic shielding then this could end in a stalemate."

Yeah, sound could work. A thunderclap could do it. I don't think that alone would stop MM, but like you said, it could throw him off, buy Majestic time, and maybe even shake him into a tangible mode.

I don't think it'd be a stalemate. MM is skilled enough that eventually he'd break through into Majestic's mind, especially since he doesn't have to worry about being attacked and he can go at it with almost full force.

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#15 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"He can get hurt in hsi intagible state all mr needs to do is get a few second of focus if hes really that smart to build glovs to help with stabiling planet im sure he could easily make his laser vision invisible so that only he could notice it then burn mm at the molecular lvl eventually leading to him having to fight back but then again i just sound like a guy who hate him lol."

You've said it twice now, that MM can be hurt on a molecular level while intangible. Do you have some proof of this, or can anyone back it up?

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#16 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

To the best of my knowledge, J'onn has only be hurt whilst intangible by people with reality altering powers (the 6D aliens in, I believe, JLA #54). Everyone else has done so by forcing him solid; either through fire (not really an option now), psionically or to protect someone/thing. That's not to say it's impossible, just that I don't know of an example. The combination of his intangible form and telepathic assault may prove to be the edge he needs to win. Essentially the methods Fernus (him again) used to take out the League. Majestic isn't my area of expertise, so I don't know how well he'd handle that.

#17 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Got it. Majestic wins because of the environment. He could knock over a building or otherwise threaten innocents and force MM to turn tangible to save them. And he wouldn't be bluffing either because he'd sacrifice lives to win, plus he'd know that MM would save them so they're not in any danger anyway. Once he was vulnerable and distracted, Majestic could beat him, then save the people. The Kherubim Warlord wins in a real world setting. If the battle went to space, we haven't come to a conclusion yet, but it looks like MM wins.

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#18 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Couln't Majestic use his eyebeams to hurt MM even when he is intangible? In the Comic the Weird, Supermans eyebeams hurt him when he was intangible. Also, in the comic I literally just read, Majestic used his beams to restructure Jupiters molecular make-up to hide it.

#19 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, if roles were reversed, J'onn would never use that tactic. That tactic would certainly work on him. Though if he were to survive Majestic's attack, he would be one angry Martian.

In space, away from potential innocents suffering, I think it might be more even. Majestic should be able to sense J'onn and avoid intangible attacks and his psionic defenses would stop J'onn shutting him down easily. Whether it's a waiting game for J'onn or Majestic has some way of attacking back I don't know.

#20 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Couln't Majestic use his eyebeams to hurt MM even when he is intangible? In the Comic the Weird, Supermans eyebeams hurt him when he was intangible. Also, in the comic I literally just read, Majestic used his beams to restructure Jupiters molecular make-up to hide it."

Those attacks are both uncertain, as we said earlier. Heat vision may have worked while J'onn was vulnerable to fire (though it shouldn't, it's not technically fire) but shouldn't now.

#21 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Couln't Majestic use his eyebeams to hurt MM even when he is intangible? In the Comic the Weird, Supermans eyebeams hurt him when he was intangible. Also, in the comic I literally just read, Majestic used his beams to restructure Jupiters molecular make-up to hide it."

I was getting one person saying he was hurt by heat vision (with no references or anything) and others saying he hadn't been (aside from his fire weakness or psychic attacks). If Superman's vision hurt him because it's heat vision then it wouldn't help Majestic now since MM isn't vulnerable to normal heat/fire anymore. If he was hurt by Superman's vision for another reason, it might be useful, but we'd need to know which it was.

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#22 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Valkaad says:
"Couln't Majestic use his eyebeams to hurt MM even when he is intangible? In the Comic the Weird, Supermans eyebeams hurt him when he was intangible. Also, in the comic I literally just read, Majestic used his beams to restructure Jupiters molecular make-up to hide it."
I was getting one person saying he was hurt by heat vision (with no references or anything) and others saying he hadn't been (aside from his fire weakness or psychic attacks). If Superman's vision hurt him because it's heat vision then it wouldn't help Majestic now since MM isn't vulnerable to normal heat/fire anymore. If he was hurt by Superman's vision for another reason, it might be useful, but we'd need to know which it was. "

His vision hurt Weird because it's not just heat, it "burn's" on a molecular level. With what I just say Majestic do, I think his eye beams are way more than heat!! Also,he ignited that chunk of star to heat it to the level of the sun, can MM withstand that kind of temperature?

#23 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read 'The Weird' so I don't know much about it.

#24 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

He was an Alien that was SUPER powerful! He was strong enough to hurt superman!! He could become intangible and supes couldn't hit him, so superman blasted him with eye beams and the Weird screamed. Superman makes a comment, and don't quote me on this, that he thought his eye beams might hurt the weird because they work on a molecular level. They aren't just fire, or heat beams.

It's a really cool series, can't remember if it was 4 or 6 issues, but it it's not to pricey its worth buying.

#25 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

I found this review of it:

http://geeksofdoom.com/2007/05/16/the-long-weird-trip-of-the-weird/

The series is from twenty years ago, so whether it applies now or not is uncertain. I've never seen Superman use his heat vision on J'onn and he doesn't use it much against the White Martians, which seems like a bit of an oversight on his part if it's that effective.

#26 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna have to bow out of this one. I just don't know enough about Mr. Majestic to make an informed choice. Fanboy says Martian Manhunter, but I'm telling Fanboy to shut up.

#27 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

At the moment without adequate back issues to hand I cannot support one claim vs the other.

I think that MM would lead the fight away from innocents just asap. That's just his way.

Without any proof, I am leaning towards the idea that with time, Maj would come up with a way to hurt MM in an intangible state but MM's telepathic attack might get through before this occurs.

#28 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"He was an Alien that was SUPER powerful! He was strong enough to hurt superman!! He could become intangible and supes couldn't hit him, so superman blasted him with eye beams and the Weird screamed. Superman makes a comment, and don't quote me on this, that he thought his eye beams might hurt the weird because they work on a molecular level. They aren't just fire, or heat beams. It's a really cool series, can't remember if it was 4 or 6 issues, but it it's not to pricey its worth buying."

It was a 6 issue mini series entitled 'The Weird'.

The Weird has just stared in Mystery in Space with Capt. Comet.

The Weird was an energy being from another dimension that reanimated a dead human body - modifying it somewhat - and could change it's mass (increase, decrease), fly, manipulate energy sources etc.

Not every form of Intangibility works the same - the end results might be the same but the process can be different and lead to different vulnerabilities.

In this case Supes's heat vision heats the molecules up at the atomic level - may be through microwave radiation or something similar. Heating causes vibration. Locale vibration could lead to distortion and result in pain.

This may work on the Weird but MM has displayed immunity to a variety of energy weapons / attacks while in intangible form.

#29 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Heat vision would have to heat things at an atomic level or it wouldn't do anything, that's the process of heating an object. It seems to me that since his molecules cannot be affected by physical efforts to move them, then it's unlikely heat vision (or any other heat source) can either. If his intangability was purely the result of lowered density, then he could. However, it doesn't matter how low your density is, you shouldn't be able to move through solid objects.

#30 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a good discussion and it looks like we're pretty much done. No real way for Majestic to hurt Manhunter has been established. Majestic Vision doesn't look like it will work. A thunderclap could work, but it wouldn't be enough by itself and would probably only work once (MM could shape shift his ears away or something). Majestic could run off to his hideout and build something in a few seconds or a couple minutes, but since he's not built something like this before, even though it seems entirely possible (to me anyway), it's just conjecture. So other than endangering innocents, there doesn't seem to be any way for Majestic to make MM tangible. Manhunter on the other hand can hurt Majestic right from the get go with Martian Vision (he can use that while intangible right?) and his psychic attacks will eventually succeed. So, unless I'm missing something, it appears that Majestic wins on Earth and Martian Manhunter wins in space or somewhere far away from innocents.

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#31 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"It was a good discussion and it looks like we're pretty much done. No real way for Majestic to hurt Manhunter has been established. Majestic Vision doesn't look like it will work. A thunderclap could work, but it wouldn't be enough by itself and would probably only work once (MM could shape shift his ears away or something). Majestic could run off to his hideout and build something in a few seconds or a couple minutes, but since he's not built something like this before, even though it seems entirely possible (to me anyway), it's just conjecture. So other than endangering innocents, there doesn't seem to be any way for Majestic to make MM tangible. Manhunter on the other hand can hurt Majestic right from the get go with Martian Vision (he can use that while intangible right?) and his psychic attacks will eventually succeed. So, unless I'm missing something, it appears that Majestic wins on Earth and Martian Manhunter wins in space or somewhere far away from innocents. "

Sounds good to me.

Good discussion everyone.

#32 Posted by JThree47693 (2538 posts) - - Show Bio

Majestic
#33 Posted by BIackFlash (1909 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe Majestic, definitely if he knows MM is weak to fire

#34 Posted by BatDance (2248 posts) - - Show Bio
Majestic builds a flamegun in a mili-second and flame throwers Manhunter
#35 Posted by glforthewin (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

could majestic mess with his atoms and stuff like he did to the eradicator?

#36 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump. 
 
It seems Buckshot and Creator's consensus on this was that Majestic could win in an area where bystanders would be of no concern, and the Martian wins in an area where his focus can be on the fight, no distractions, no hindrances. I disagree with that. Majestic should win in most areas, under most scenarios. Now, it is possible that Buckshot and Creator's positions on the matter have changed; so I hope my bumping this is not meaningless. I just thought I would interject on this. Here is why I think Majestic would win. 
 
1. Majestic's physical attributes are higher. His strength, durability, and speed are at higher levels. The Martian's healing may be faster and more efficient, but I doubt it would make much difference. Majestic can move planets on his own; whereas, the Martian needed SuperMan and Wonder Woman's help to move the earth. Majestic also has greater durability feats, probably both in energy resistance and blunt force. His speed is also much greater. The Martian has traveled at faster than light speeds, demonstrated combat speed comparable to a mind controlled SuperMan in the Tenth Circle (throwing multiple melee strikes at high speeds), and considerable reaction time. Problem is, travel speed is irrelevant, and his feats for combat and reaction speeds are nowhere near on the level that Majestic's are. Majestic has FTL reflexes and similar operational speed (as well as travel speed). The Martian is fast, but he has never dodged a light speed attack before. Because of Majestic's speed advantage, the Martian may very well never gain the opportunity to turn intangible. He has been affected while intangible before by Kanto's sword, but Kanto attributed that to his sword functioning on multi-dimensional planes. That I know of, Majestic has no means of replicating that. Regardless, the speed advantage is a huge factor in Majestic's favor, since it can eliminate most of the Martian's major assets in a fight, notably his intangibility. 
2. Not only is there the possibility that the Martian may never get the chance to use telepathy due to Majestic's speed, but Majestic does have some psionic abilities of his own and some telepathic resistance feats. The full nature of these resistance feats, I am unsure of. Not all applications of telepathy are the same; for instance, a character resisting being put to sleep and resisting being mindraped are two different things. One does not necessarily translate to the other. That said, again, I am not completely aware of the telepathic resistance feats Majestic has. The Martian is one of DC's most powerful telepaths and has defeated and influenced several enemies purely by telepathic means. But when the speed advantage possibly removing any opportunity he may get to use telepathy and Majestic's resistances (however formidable they may be) are taken into account, telepathy may not be a viable method for the Martian to win.
3. Now, assuming telepathy could be an option for defeating Majestic, the Martian's morals have to be considered. When morals apply, the Martian tends to fight opponents with a combination of strength, speed, and intangibility, heat vision and shape shifting being fairly common tactics for combat purposes also. Telepathy, however, is usually reserved, as the Martian prefers not to enter others' minds without their consent. He has on a few occasions used telepathy as his first-used ability in a fight before but not very often. Not to mention, usually when he has, there are circumstances surrounding it. An example would be in The Others Among Us arc, J'onn was fighting White Martians, and the method he chose to defeat them was to enter their minds and telepathically put them into comas, which he did. In that instance, telepathy was the power he chose to use first and foremost. But the way J'onn fights White Martians is unlikely going to be the way in which he fights Majestic. White Martians are registered threats that he is familiar with and has some personal ties to. The situation interprets poorly to a battle against Majestic. Having said all that, even if speed were not a factor to eliminate any opening the Martian may receive to use telepathy against Majestic and if we assume that Majestic's telepathic resistances are not impressive enough to resist his telepathy (which is a distinct possibility, but, as I said, I would need to learn more about his resistance feats), the fact that telepathy will most likely not be used as his first choice of attack would also decrease the chances that it would be used to defeat Majestic. 
 
These points considered, I believe Majestic should take the win.

#37 Posted by warlord1234 (1266 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
"Bump.  It seems Buckshot and Creator's consensus on this was that Majestic could win in an area where bystanders would be of no concern, and the Martian wins in an area where his focus can be on the fight, no distractions, no hindrances. I disagree with that. Majestic should win in most areas, under most scenarios. Now, it is possible that Buckshot and Creator's positions on the matter have changed; so I hope my bumping this is not meaningless. I just thought I would interject on this. Here is why I think Majestic would win.  1. Majestic's physical attributes are higher. His strength, durability, and speed are at higher levels. The Martian's healing may be faster and more efficient, but I doubt it would make much difference. Majestic can move planets on his own; whereas, the Martian needed SuperMan and Wonder Woman's help to move the earth. Majestic also has greater durability feats, probably both in energy resistance and blunt force. His speed is also much greater. The Martian has traveled at faster than light speeds, demonstrated combat speed comparable to a mind controlled SuperMan in the Tenth Circle (throwing multiple melee strikes at high speeds), and considerable reaction time. Problem is, travel speed is irrelevant, and his feats for combat and reaction speeds are nowhere near on the level that Majestic's are. Majestic has FTL reflexes and similar operational speed (as well as travel speed). The Martian is fast, but he has never dodged a light speed attack before. Because of Majestic's speed advantage, the Martian may very well never gain the opportunity to turn intangible. He has been affected while intangible before by Kanto's sword, but Kanto attributed that to his sword functioning on multi-dimensional planes. That I know of, Majestic has no means of replicating that. Regardless, the speed advantage is a huge factor in Majestic's favor, since it can eliminate most of the Martian's major assets in a fight, notably his intangibility. 2. Not only is there the possibility that the Martian may never get the chance to use telepathy due to Majestic's speed, but Majestic does have some psionic abilities of his own and some telepathic resistance feats. The full nature of these resistance feats, I am unsure of. Not all applications of telepathy are the same; for instance, a character resisting being put to sleep and resisting being mindraped are two different things. One does not necessarily translate to the other. That said, again, I am not completely aware of the telepathic resistance feats Majestic has. The Martian is one of DC's most powerful telepaths and has defeated and influenced several enemies purely by telepathic means. But when the speed advantage possibly removing any opportunity he may get to use telepathy and Majestic's resistances (however formidable they may be) are taken into account, telepathy may not be a viable method for the Martian to win.3. Now, assuming telepathy could be an option for defeating Majestic, the Martian's morals have to be considered. When morals apply, the Martian tends to fight opponents with a combination of strength, speed, and intangibility, heat vision and shape shifting being fairly common tactics for combat purposes also. Telepathy, however, is usually reserved, as the Martian prefers not to enter others' minds without their consent. He has on a few occasions used telepathy as his first-used ability in a fight before but not very often. Not to mention, usually when he has, there are circumstances surrounding it. An example would be in The Others Among Us arc, J'onn was fighting White Martians, and the method he chose to defeat them was to enter their minds and telepathically put them into comas, which he did. In that instance, telepathy was the power he chose to use first and foremost. But the way J'onn fights White Martians is unlikely going to be the way in which he fights Majestic. White Martians are registered threats that he is familiar with and has some personal ties to. The situation interprets poorly to a battle against Majestic. Having said all that, even if speed were not a factor to eliminate any opening the Martian may receive to use telepathy against Majestic and if we assume that Majestic's telepathic resistances are not impressive enough to resist his telepathy (which is a distinct possibility, but, as I said, I would need to learn more about his resistance feats), the fact that telepathy will most likely not be used as his first choice of attack would also decrease the chances that it would be used to defeat Majestic.  These points considered, I believe Majestic should take the win. "

If MM use his power in a smart way he shoud be able to win. Despite the fact the that he not has strong has Majestic(his strength level around superman) he has shown the skills to amp his strength to higher levels due to his ability to make his molecues more dense he can also amp his strength via telekinesis. If he use both of this method to amp his strength he well be a serious threat to Majestic the only thing im worried about is Majestic speed. I don't think Majestic will attack innocent people in not in his nature to do so unless they are a threat.
#38 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@warlord1234 said: 
If MM use his power in a smart way he shoud be able to win.   
 Majestic has too many advantages. 
 
Despite the fact the that he not has strong has Majestic(his strength level around superman) he has shown the skills to amp his strength to higher levels due to his ability to make his molecues more dense 
He rarely does that to increase his strength, if at all. He usually does that increase his resiliency. 
 
he can also amp his strength via telekinesis.   
I have never once seen him use his telekinesis to amplify his strength. The only application I have seen the Martian use for telekinesis is generic lifting of objects, and he rarely uses it. 
 
If he use both of this method to amp his strength he well be a serious threat to Majestic   
Strength is not going to be an issue. The Martian is strong enough to hurt Majestic, I believe, but Majestic is stronger and has greatly superior combat skill. 
 
the only thing im worried about is Majestic speed.   
His speed is one of the primary factors, which is why I spent so much time addressing how it could affect the outcome in my explanation. 
 
I don't think Majestic will attack innocent people in not in his nature to do so unless they are a threat. "
I never said he would (not sure if you implied that I did though).
#39 Posted by warlord1234 (1266 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said: 
If MM use his power in a smart way he shoud be able to win.   
 Majestic has too many advantages. 
 
Despite the fact the that he not has strong has Majestic(his strength level around superman) he has shown the skills to amp his strength to higher levels due to his ability to make his molecues more dense 
He rarely does that to increase his strength, if at all. He usually does that increase his resiliency. 
 
he can also amp his strength via telekinesis.   
I have never once seen him use his telekinesis to amplify his strength. The only application I have seen the Martian use for telekinesis is generic lifting of objects, and he rarely uses it. 
 
If he use both of this method to amp his strength he well be a serious threat to Majestic   
Strength is not going to be an issue. The Martian is strong enough to hurt Majestic, I believe, but Majestic is stronger and has greatly superior combat skill. 
 
the only thing im worried about is Majestic speed.   
His speed is one of the primary factors, which is why I spent so much time addressing how it could affect the outcome in my explanation. 
 
I don't think Majestic will attack innocent people in not in his nature to do so unless they are a threat. "
I never said he would (not sure if you implied that I did though). "

It does not matter if he rarely use it. This is a fight that is not controlled by writers. The botton line is that he has done it before. He has increase his strength before in the past due to his control of molecues he a shapeshiter of the higest orders he can makes his muscle tendon much stronger and muscle tissue much more denser giving him more phyiscal strength and i think his pionsic power will Majestic trouble.
#40 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@warlord1234: One, as I said, I have never seen any instances of the Martian using telekinesis to amp his strength. Two, I have never seen him use shape shifting to amp his strength. The closest thing he has done to strength amplification via shape shifting, that I know of, is growing extra arms to help with lefts or to fight multiple opponents. Three, increasing his strength is not enough. Fact is, he has no feats that compete with Majestic's, nor does he have the combat skill that Majestic does. This is not even addressing Majestic's greater operational speed.
#41 Posted by Dark Noldor (547 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr Majestic

#42 Posted by warlord1234 (1266 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:

" @warlord1234: One, as I said, I have never seen any instances of the Martian using telekinesis to amp his strength. Two, I have never seen him use shape shifting to amp his strength. The closest thing he has done to strength amplification via shape shifting, that I know of, is growing extra arms to help with lefts or to fight multiple opponents. Three, increasing his strength is not enough. Fact is, he has no feats that compete with Majestic's, nor does he have the combat skill that Majestic does. This is not even addressing Majestic's greater operational speed. "


He use telekinesis to increase his phyiscal strength by surrounding telekinesis aura around him giving greater lifting ability i can't remeber the issue but if my memory seve right he did it in the second volume. MM has been knoe to change his shape into more denser material he has even change the atomic structure of his shape into things that his body does not have. MM has increase his size before in the past and has made his body more denser thereore giving him greater msucle tissue most of are physical strength comes from the muscle tissue and the joints. He has shown ability far superior then increasing his muscle tissue which makes logical sense that he should be able to increase his phyiscal strength(which i have seen do before in the past).
   
#43 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@warlord1234 said: 
He use telekinesis to increase his phyiscal strength by surrounding telekinesis aura around him giving greater lifting ability i can't remeber the issue but if my memory seve right he did it in the second volume.   
I have never seen him utilize this type of ability. If you have scans or an issue number, that would help. 
 
MM has been knoe to change his shape into more denser material he has even change the atomic structure of his shape into things that his body does not have. MM has increase his size before in the past and has made his body more denser thereore giving him greater msucle tissue most of are physical strength comes from the muscle tissue and the joints. He has shown ability far superior then increasing his muscle tissue which makes logical sense that he should be able to increase his phyiscal strength(which i have seen do before in the past).    "
I know the extents of his shape shifting abilities. I know the feats he has demonstrated with it. The Martian has stated himself that he can increase his density to that of a diamond. But I still have never seen him use his shape shifting to augment his strength.
#44 Posted by velle37 (6055 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Maj would win........
#45 Posted by warlord1234 (1266 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said: 
He use telekinesis to increase his phyiscal strength by surrounding telekinesis aura around him giving greater lifting ability i can't remeber the issue but if my memory seve right he did it in the second volume.   
I have never seen him utilize this type of ability. If you have scans or an issue number, that would help. 
 
MM has been knoe to change his shape into more denser material he has even change the atomic structure of his shape into things that his body does not have. MM has increase his size before in the past and has made his body more denser thereore giving him greater msucle tissue most of are physical strength comes from the muscle tissue and the joints. He has shown ability far superior then increasing his muscle tissue which makes logical sense that he should be able to increase his phyiscal strength(which i have seen do before in the past).    "
I know the extents of his shape shifting abilities. I know the feats he has demonstrated with it. The Martian has stated himself that he can increase his density to that of a diamond. But I still have never seen him use his shape shifting to augment his strength. "

He can use shapeshiting to increase stegnth because half the things he done with his shapeshiting abilities are mush harder and more complex so increasing his phyiscal strength should be simple if not simpler and he done it before in the past but i do not remember the issue since i was reading my friends comics but i think he did it in the second volume.
#46 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@warlord1234 said: 
He can use shapeshiting to increase stegnth because half the things he done with his shapeshiting abilities are mush harder and more complex so increasing his phyiscal strength should be simple if not simpler and he done it before in the past but i do not remember the issue since i was reading my friends comics but i think he did it in the second volume. "
Proof would be more sufficient. As I have repeated multiple times now, I have never seen him apply his shape shifting that way. Also, considering that his greatest strength feats are less impressive than Majestic's are, it proves little anyway.  
 
Speed is, honestly, a more significant matter than strength is also.
#47 Posted by drkhwk2001 (4433 posts) - - Show Bio

Majestros has taken on the likes of Helspont, Damocles, and Despot, who are on par and in some cases above MM's skill set . I don't see why Maj would loose to Manhunter.

#48 Posted by warlord1234 (1266 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said: 
He can use shapeshiting to increase stegnth because half the things he done with his shapeshiting abilities are mush harder and more complex so increasing his phyiscal strength should be simple if not simpler and he done it before in the past but i do not remember the issue since i was reading my friends comics but i think he did it in the second volume. "
Proof would be more sufficient. As I have repeated multiple times now, I have never seen him apply his shape shifting that way. Also, considering that his greatest strength feats are less impressive than Majestic's are, it proves little anyway.   Speed is, honestly, a more significant matter than strength is also. "

You did not heed my word that well. I said that he has done things that are more complex then increasing his physical strength. Such has increaing his size and changing the physical stucture of his body. For him not increase his physical strength is like saying that a individual with a degree in biochemistry knows nothing about muscle tissue DNA or various other bochemistry knowledge that you learn when you are in colleage since you need that knowledge in order to understand to progress to master degree and MM has shown knowledge far superior then that.
#49 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@warlord1234 said: 
You did not heed my word that well. I said that he has done things that are more complex then increasing his physical strength. Such has increaing his size and changing the physical stucture of his body. For him not increase his physical strength is like saying that a individual with a degree in biochemistry knows nothing about muscle tissue DNA or various other bochemistry knowledge that you learn when you are in colleage since you need that knowledge in order to understand to progress to master degree and MM has shown knowledge far superior then that. "
I read your post. It proves next to nothing. Unless he has before, even if he can, there is no reason to assume he will in this fight. How often does he shape shift to increase his strength during a fight? Very little, if at all. So why would he here?
#50 Posted by warlord1234 (1266 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said: 
You did not heed my word that well. I said that he has done things that are more complex then increasing his physical strength. Such has increaing his size and changing the physical stucture of his body. For him not increase his physical strength is like saying that a individual with a degree in biochemistry knows nothing about muscle tissue DNA or various other bochemistry knowledge that you learn when you are in colleage since you need that knowledge in order to understand to progress to master degree and MM has shown knowledge far superior then that. "
I read your post. It proves next to nothing. Unless he has before, even if he can, there is no reason to assume he will in this fight. How often does he shape shift to increase his strength during a fight? Very little, if at all. So why would he here? "


Like i said before this not a fight controled by writers. Saying that he can increase physicals trength is like saying that someone can run when they can't walk.