• 57 results
  • 1
  • 2
#51 Edited by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@pierpat said:

Heya, i was going soft, you went quite rough.

Let's be clear, going by feats, if in dc's arc majestros did not do anything really good from that point of view, he won't be able imho, i said it could depend because i did not wanted to be rough.

With op better specified, i stand my point.To scientists alot more expert than majestros it took longer , with ALOT more knowledge.

You cannot tell by sure, because majestros has not done anything that level before, and i can't be sure the other way. Let's be honest, it's all in our personal opinion.

I remeber his computer could research every data of the universe, not the multiverse.As always, i could easily be mistaking.

And about the magic/molecular manipulation, as magic is "magic", it can do things "magically", without a scientific backup.

So, how do you know it was manipulating molecules?

I'm not really sure what your "let's be clear" line is talking about. Majestic doesn't have to have done anything "really good" while he was in DC for his other feats to matter. But, if that's the way you want to play it, when he appeared on DC Earth the smartest people ("the finest technical minds on Earth" as it was stated, and that also included some minds from Krypton by the way since Eradicator was there) there had a plan to stop a time storm that was ripping reality apart. Majestic took one look at a device that they had created and not only did he instantly know everything about how it would function, but he was able to tell them that their plan wouldn't work. So, Majestic, in seconds, proved to be smarter that "the finest technical minds" of DC. That's a pretty significant feat of intelligence.

The idea that it took scientists "a lot more expert than Maj" longer with more knowledge is a weak one. Why are they more expert? Because they had more time and knowledge? OK, their "expert status" is irrelevant. They may have had more time, but with Majestic's speed, he can experience far more time than they've ever had in their lives, so their greater time is simply incorrect. And they may have had more knowledge, but that was before Majestic put his own super computers and remarkable personal intelligence to the task, so "more knowledge" now goes to him. Majestic could have more time and more knowledge of the power cosmic, and that's before getting into him simply taking the knowledge that's already been gathered. I've already made it clear that you were mistaken about what the Kheran Difference Engine could do. It says, on panel, that its accessing computers from alternate Earths. What is Earth 616 (or any other Marvel Earth) but an alternate Earth? The idea that Marvel is for some reason too separate for him to access doesn't really come from anywhere in the comic. The fact that the worlds have crossed over multiple time actually suggests that they're close enough for Majestic to access. And just so we're clear, I don't think Majestic needs to get on Reed Richard's computer or something to get info about the Silver Surfer. Majestic's computer is a powerful machine on its own, but peaking just rips your argument to shreds so I figured I'd take the short way.

Majestic being able to the limit a far more potent power (also his experience with handling several different far more potent reality warping powers throughout his life) suggests to me that he'd be able to steal the power cosmic. You think he couldn't because he hasn't studied it even though his brilliance and technology means he could and because he hasn't been around it as long even though his speed means he could study for longer than anyone else has. The only support you have for him not being able to do it is that you think it would be too hard, but he has used a mix of science and magic to warp reality, trapped someone with the power to literally rewrite reality, cut off a multiversal reality warper from the full extent of his powers, embarrassed the most brilliant minds of DC Earth, he has hands on experience with harvesting cosmic energy, and regularly goes around instantly understanding alien energies and technologies. Majestic handles energy of this sort and greater, so him stealing the power cosmic seems more than doable. And you haven't even responded to my comment about the numerous other times technology has bested Surfer, and tech that was made by people not as smart as Reed, Doom, or Majestic, and sometimes tech that wasn't even originally built to drain the Surfer. Here's a short list: Iron Man's normal suit, Kree weaponry, the control discs from Planet Hulk (I'm aware it wasn't the only factor, but it kept him at a restricted power level), the space pirates in In Thy Name, a tech-enhanced Skrull, the "leech gauntlets" from that mercenary group created by Ron Marz, Dynamo City, and GIGO. Tech works on power cosmic users and you don't have to be smarter than everyone on DC Earth to come up with it.

You say he hasn't done anything like it before, but Majestic has become one with the cosmos before by mixing science and magic. He basically gave himself the power cosmic (I'd say he was even more in tune with cosmic energy than Surfer was because it was him) so how is that nothing close to what I'm saying? Because he didn't take it from someone and just gave it to himself directly? Seems like an even more impressive feat than stealing it, but ok. As I've mentioned multiple times, he also fought Spartan and was able limit his use of his own Void powers until he let him access them. Majestic controlling someone's access to reality warping powers even greater than the Power Cosmic seems close. Not enough? How about the time when he used the Creation Blades to cut off Tao from his reality warping powers? Majestic messes around with greater energies than the power cosmic. Sure, these are to some extent personal opinions, but mine are supported by the fact that Majestic has done this level of cosmic energy play before while yours is based on the idea that it's too hard even though its been done multiple times before.

Your response is to just use the word magic over and over? Someone applied an unidentifiable energy to Majestic and turned him to stone. He undid it without any aid. The powers these characters would use are canonically referred to as the source of the previously mentioned energy. You want to split it up into "science energy" and "magic energy" but when they're just random energy blasts, it's really not that much different, especially when you have Dr. Strange saying that magic comes from the stars. They're both just PIS energy sources. Really though, the matter manipulation discussion is foolishness since no matter gets manipulated if Majestic already has the power cosmic at his command.

wait wait, tony's basic armour did not drain SS from his power, but gained a bit of power from hi, it's quite different.

About the "Majestic confronting with the dc minds", i've said that here in italy that arch simply does not exist, so i could not know anything bout it.

Anyway, as we stand here, i say: all the part about using the creation blades and Univeral majestic don't apply here(he does not have any of those two conditions)

I say:Even if, and i say if, he found a way of draining/stealing the power cosmic, it would not be istantenous, and would not work on all heralds at once.

So, i think that morals off he's still way out of they're league.

And about studying more than anyone else:

Studying what!? how? If they are in wildstorm universe(and op has specified now), he won't find any info to study, no matter how good/fast he is at studying!

Morals on.....Depends ALL on how and if he manages to drain/steal power, because once the heralds get serious, even at half power, they can still hurt him.

My response about magic is simply: You cannot explain magic!

In every comic/fictional universe magic is very different, so strange's statement surely won't apply on wildstorm's/dc's definition of magic.

#52 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:


wait wait, tony's basic armour did not drain SS from his power, but gained a bit of power from hi, it's quite different.

About the "Majestic confronting with the dc minds", i've said that here in italy that arch simply does not exist, so i could not know anything bout it.

Anyway, as we stand here, i say: all the part about using the creation blades and Univeral majestic don't apply here(he does not have any of those two conditions)

I say:Even if, and i say if, he found a way of draining/stealing the power cosmic, it would not be istantenous, and would not work on all heralds at once.

So, i think that morals off he's still way out of they're league.

And about studying more than anyone else:

Studying what!? how? If they are in wildstorm universe(and op has specified now), he won't find any info to study, no matter how good/fast he is at studying!

Morals on.....Depends ALL on how and if he manages to drain/steal power, because once the heralds get serious, even at half power, they can still hurt him.

My response about magic is simply: You cannot explain magic!

In every comic/fictional universe magic is very different, so strange's statement surely won't apply on wildstorm's/dc's definition of magic.

Tony, with his basic armor, decades ago, was able to absorb the power cosmic and use it to power himself and attack back with. It didn't drain Surfer dry, but it does show him taking in and using the power cosmic with tech. If he can, in the middle of the fight, just turn around and use the energy being wielded against him, how much more could a genius like Majestic with all the time to plan beforehand, make something specifically to draw out that same energy? And that's just one of a list of examples that I didn't even post fully. Tech can be used to take in and use the power cosmic.

Why would universal majestic and the creation blades not count? Majestic has prep and access to these things. Also, I should state, I wasn't talking about Universal Majestic. Majestic became one with the cosmos on another occasion as well.

And you say it wouldn't be instantaneous or affect them all just because that's how you want it to be. Iron Man could take in energy as it was used on him, Doom and Black Panther stole Surfer's powers pretty quickly. Same with The High Evolutionary if I recall correctly. Majestic being able to quickly do what's already been done is not a stretch to me. As for it not applying to all of them, I really don't see why that wouldn't be the case either. There's no reason to assume he couldn't create a device that just absorbed all the power cosmic in the area. (And he wouldn't even have to. He could make it so he absorbs it as it's used on him directly, or he could take a few at a time and use it to get more.)

Morals off wouldn't really change a thing because he'd still have stolen their powers at the start of the fight. Them being more willing to kill him doesn't matter if they're powerless.

We generally assume that the things that make a character work exist in wherever theyre fighting. So if you have a fight with Flash in the Marvel Universe, he still has the speed force or if Green Lantern is fighting he can still access the willpower of the universe, or if Wolverine fights in the DC universe the properties that make adamantium mostly unbreakable still apply. So the heralds existing make the power cosmic a reality in this fight and a force that Majestic can gather more information on. And even if it didn't exist everywhere, he'd still have evidence of it from where he met them and would still be able to look it up in realities where it exists thanks to his computer. And as mentioned, Iron Man was able to absorb the power cosmic like he would any other energy source (it overwhelmed him and he couldn't contain it for long, but he was still able to take it in) in the middle of a fight so it's clear that Majestic wouldn't have to know every little thing about it to be able to take it in.

You say at half power (assuming for some reason that they'd still have any power) they can hurt him, but if he has the other half of their power, they really can't.

Good response...

In the end this is my position, Majestic, with his multiple feats of intelligence as support, and his massive resources and incredible speed, can duplicate power draining/stealing feats against heralds that have been done numerous times in the past.

Moderator
#53 Posted by MisterWhisper (1892 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot: WHat do you think are his chances if he does not drain them? What if he just decides he wants to beat them all to death?

Just asking, not part of the fight or anything?

#54 Edited by MisterWhisper (1892 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this might be the first fight I posted that got to 2 pages without having trolls invade.

#55 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot: WHat do you think are his chances if he does not drain them? What if he just decides he wants to beat them all to death?

Just asking, not part of the fight or anything?

They'd curbstomp him. Surfer, in character, would be a fight for him. With all of them against him, even in character, at least one of them would remember they have a ton of powers beyond basic physical attacks and while he has resistance to psychic and matter manipulation attacks, I don't think he'd hold out for very long. Given the variety of their powers, he couldn't really prep against every application of their power, and they could likely use their powers against whatever devices or things he comes up with. Majestic is a massive powerhouse, but he's primarily a physical attacker, and the tricks he can pull with his energy abilities are dwarfed by his opponent's in this fight. Shutting down their powers without draining them might be an option that would fall within your question, but he'd have to get them all at once otherwise they could help each other out.

Moderator
#56 Posted by Hyperlight (5715 posts) - - Show Bio

this is a dope thread and ive always though Majestic was better than supes in every way except for the fact that supes has a perpetual energy source backing him. I know his abilities and intellect are off the charts but im hard pressed to believe he can take on so many heralds or figure out so much in 2 minutes time. Im so on the fence.. leaning towards the heralds in round 2 and 3

#57 Posted by robertloucksjr (1729 posts) - - Show Bio

@robertloucksjr said:

Herald Destroyer? Doesn't he have basically Juggernaut durability without a psionic and magic vulnerability, only ever hurt by being blasted by multiple Celestials and even then he was later reformed? Isn't his disintegration beam pretty much Darkseid eyebeam level? Isn't he basically inhabited by the will of Galactus?

Crap, I think I would take him over Silver Surfer.

Destroyer is too slow though... I mean Majestic would have to be purposely moving like The Blob to be tagged by him.

Herald Destroyer flies at light-speed. I would expect his fight speed to be much improved.

#58 Edited by King Saturn (224033 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

@robertloucksjr said:

Herald Destroyer? Doesn't he have basically Juggernaut durability without a psionic and magic vulnerability, only ever hurt by being blasted by multiple Celestials and even then he was later reformed? Isn't his disintegration beam pretty much Darkseid eyebeam level? Isn't he basically inhabited by the will of Galactus?

Crap, I think I would take him over Silver Surfer.

Destroyer is too slow though... I mean Majestic would have to be purposely moving like The Blob to be tagged by him.

Herald Destroyer flies at light-speed. I would expect his fight speed to be much improved.

I don't think Destroyer's Operational Speed is too impressive... he may have space travel of Light Speed... but not operational speed that good.