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#1 Edited by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

This will be assuming that Galactus has all his heralds and that they are alive, in good health, and at their non-amped levels.

A herald of Galactus encounters what he consider an alternate earth, and because no deals have been made with this earth, it is free for the taking. Mr. Majestic meets the herald in space and issues a challenge. He alone will stand and fight the Heralds of Galactus in honorable combat, if he wins they may never be involved with his earth again, if they Mr Majestic will become a new Herald.

Vs

Mr. Majestic (Wildstorm era Majestic not current)

Rules.

Prep knowledge for Mr. Majestic

Mr. Majestic is defending Wildstorm Earth. The Herald told Majestic that he is the Herald of Galactus, cosmically powerful devourer of worlds. Other than that Mr. Majestic only knows what he could sense during the 2 minute conversation with the Herald.

Prep Knowledge for Heralds:

The Herald know what cosmic awareness would tell them in 2 minutes of talking and that Majestic seems confident and commanding.

Scenario 1.

Morals are on for those that actually have them

The battle is to the KO, or incapacitation. Nobody is ordered to kill.

Each side gets 24hrs of Prep first.

Scenario 2.

Morals are off, everyone is going for the kill.

24 hours of prep for both sides.

Scenario 3.

Same as scenario 2 but Galactus is allowed to help with the prep.

#2 Posted by Pierpat (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

Scenario 1: Heralds

Scenario 2:Heralds in a stomp

Scenario 3: Heralds in a murderstomp(Big G simply hands over the ultimate nullifer)

#3 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (4778 posts) - - Show Bio

SPITE! heralds uber mega curbstomp all 3 rounds.

#4 Posted by Trauma (5889 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by dondave (38883 posts) - - Show Bio

@misterwhisper: Is he fighting them all at the same time; because he'd be hard pressed to beat any of them by themselves?

Online
#6 Posted by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

Yes all at once.

I think people are slightly underestimating Majestros.

#7 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

Yes all at once.

I think people are slightly underestimating Majestros.

I think it is the other way around.

Majestic feat wise is the same as Superman.

Superman has better Speed Feats, Speed Blitz Feats, and over all Strength Feats.

Majestic has better Prep Feats by a large margin, the whole Warrior and Warlord skill set, as well Creation Blades.

People fan wank Majestic too much when he is Supes level.

#8 Posted by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Lets try not to derail this into another Majestic/Superman thread.

#9 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Lets try not to derail this into another Majestic/Superman thread.

Not my intention, I am trying to establish the murder stomp of Superman vs 3 Heralds at a time much less all of them. Majestic would fare no better.

#10 Posted by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I would agree that Superman would die. Being weak against a certain kind of radiation against people who have massive energy control powers is not going to end well.

#11 Edited by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Superman Post Crisis has always struggled to move planets, without a sun-dip, that's something that Mr Majestic has done effortlessly. Travel Speed, I can agree with, but I think Mr Majestic has better combat feats, and as you said he's a better warrior, as well as being alot more intelligent.

It would be interesting to see how good Mr Majestic is in New-52 though. He is light on feats ATM.

As for the battle at hand, its a mismatch.

Edit- I didn't notice the Prep

In that case MJ wins the first two rounds.

#12 Posted by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@misterwhisper: I assumed as much already. No point in New 52 version.

#14 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Edited by Pierpat (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@misterwhisper: I assumed as much already. No point in New 52 version.

And to be clear, i really estimate alot majestros, i've read all his solo series(here in italy i can't put my hands on the dc world crossover unfortunately), but let's be honest, he's not on nova's or SS's level.

On round one he actually puts up a fight, but only because SS would hold back alot.

In round 2 it's singularity-spawing time.

On round 3, i'll be forced to quote myself:

(Big G simply hands over the ultimate nullifer)

#16 Posted by dondave (38883 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Heralds don't prep, so it's basically Majestic with a day of prep against them. A character as brilliant and as ruthless as Majestic (not to mention FAST) with one sided prep against opponents with a single power source that's been stolen multiple times? Majestic in a stomp.

Majestic, like Black Panther or Doom before him, decides to simply steal the power cosmic from them. I mean really, physically, most don't show up on his level, he's resistant to their molecular manipulations, and he fools around on a plane where cosmic energy is basically birthed just to use it for his own purposes. They're not going to destroy him before he enacts any plan he has, and he'd certainly have one that results in them losing their powers. Silver Surfer, their most notable member, is an example of how tech consistently affects them, and even if Maj decided not to use any on them, he's shown that he can elevate himself to become a being with reality warping power. Now, I think tech-aided prep is far more likely, but I'm just throwing out options. Majestic has taken a normal exo suit and turned it into an armor that allowed him to restrict the powers of the Void (pure, reality warping purple drank) with no effort. Even without getting creative I can see him simply rebuilding that suit, slapping some auto-absorb functions on it and hopping into battle so the instant it starts and they attack or get near him, the power cosmic gets sucked out of them and dumped right into him. That's like 2 minutes of work he's already done for a guy with 24 hours to kill.

If we're gonna say the heralds win, let's at least act like we've thought about the other option first, shall we?

Also, not surprised that Cadence keeps saying the same things about Majestic and Superman no matter how many times I've shown him he's incorrect.

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#18 Posted by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot:

Thanks for the thought out opinion.

I knew this was not going to be a one sided stomp for the heralds.

#19 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by Raw_Material (3300 posts) - - Show Bio

Heralds of Galactus wins.

#21 Edited by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by Pierpat (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

Heralds don't prep, so it's basically Majestic with a day of prep against them. A character as brilliant and as ruthless as Majestic (not to mention FAST) with one sided prep against opponents with a single power source that's been stolen multiple times? Majestic in a stomp.

Majestic, like Black Panther or Doom before him, decides to simply steal the power cosmic from them. I mean really, physically, most don't show up on his level, he's resistant to their molecular manipulations, and he fools around on a plane where cosmic energy is basically birthed just to use it for his own purposes. They're not going to destroy him before he enacts any plan he has, and he'd certainly have one that results in them losing their powers. Silver Surfer, their most notable member, is an example of how tech consistently affects them, and even if Maj decided not to use any on them, he's shown that he can elevate himself to become a being with reality warping power. Now, I think tech-aided prep is far more likely, but I'm just throwing out options. Majestic has taken a normal exo suit and turned it into an armor that allowed him to restrict the powers of the Void (pure, reality warping purple drank) with no effort. Even without getting creative I can see him simply rebuilding that suit, slapping some auto-absorb functions on it and hopping into battle so the instant it starts and they attack or get near him, the power cosmic gets sucked out of them and dumped right into him. That's like 2 minutes of work he's already done for a guy with 24 hours to kill.

If we're gonna say the heralds win, let's at least act like we've thought about the other option first, shall we?

Also, not surprised that Cadence keeps saying the same things about Majestic and Superman no matter how many times I've shown him he's incorrect.

Like the thoughts.

But, i read nothing bout previous knowledge.So........how the f**k will majestros get siphon from them the power cosmic, if he probably does not know nothing about it?!

You're confronting the acts of the 2(maybe two out of three with reed richards) greatest human experts of the power cosmic, who have confronted with it's users many and many times, with someone who does not know even what it is!

he won't know his enemies use power cosmic, so he won't be able to use any brillant strategy he likes.

He'll prep like he does when he does not know his enemy, train and sharpen his blades, or something similar.

Really, i like being contrary too....but this is just seeking a plot device.

And, btw were does he prove resistance to molecular manipulation?

#23 Posted by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

I am probably one of several few who think Majestic stands a better chance against the Heralds than Superman or any other Superman-type characters. Majestic is smarter, more cunning, strategic, massively stronger, faster, and generally more powerful than Superman. Majestic also holds better feats than Superman, despite the number of them. In my opinion, the only Heralds able to survive Majestic are Fallen One, Silver Surfer, and Stardust (because he's pure energy). The others get thrashed pretty hard. Majestic would win the first round, he's basically given 24 hours of prep to conceive an object he could use to absorb the Power Cosmic; he's fast enough to create one almost instantly and then use it without the Heralds knowing exactly what he's doing or going to do. The second and third rounds are obviously in favor of the Heralds.

#24 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

Heralds don't prep, so it's basically Majestic with a day of prep against them. A character as brilliant and as ruthless as Majestic (not to mention FAST) with one sided prep against opponents with a single power source that's been stolen multiple times? Majestic in a stomp.

Majestic, like Black Panther or Doom before him, decides to simply steal the power cosmic from them. I mean really, physically, most don't show up on his level, he's resistant to their molecular manipulations, and he fools around on a plane where cosmic energy is basically birthed just to use it for his own purposes. They're not going to destroy him before he enacts any plan he has, and he'd certainly have one that results in them losing their powers. Silver Surfer, their most notable member, is an example of how tech consistently affects them, and even if Maj decided not to use any on them, he's shown that he can elevate himself to become a being with reality warping power. Now, I think tech-aided prep is far more likely, but I'm just throwing out options. Majestic has taken a normal exo suit and turned it into an armor that allowed him to restrict the powers of the Void (pure, reality warping purple drank) with no effort. Even without getting creative I can see him simply rebuilding that suit, slapping some auto-absorb functions on it and hopping into battle so the instant it starts and they attack or get near him, the power cosmic gets sucked out of them and dumped right into him. That's like 2 minutes of work he's already done for a guy with 24 hours to kill.

If we're gonna say the heralds win, let's at least act like we've thought about the other option first, shall we?

Also, not surprised that Cadence keeps saying the same things about Majestic and Superman no matter how many times I've shown him he's incorrect.

Agreed. Giving somebody like Majestic 24 hours of prep against a group of people who all have the same powers and skill set actually gives Majestic the advantage here.

#25 Edited by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

Like the thoughts.

But, i read nothing bout previous knowledge.So........how the f**k will majestros get siphon from them the power cosmic, if he probably does not know nothing about it?!

You're confronting the acts of the 2(maybe two out of three with reed richards) greatest human experts of the power cosmic, who have confronted with it's users many and many times, with someone who does not know even what it is!

he won't know his enemies use power cosmic, so he won't be able to use any brillant strategy he likes.

He'll prep like he does when he does not know his enemy, train and sharpen his blades, or something similar.

Really, i like being contrary too....but this is just seeking a plot device.

And, btw were does he proven resistant to molecular manipulation?

Ah, discourse, you're already a winner in my eyes.

The issue of knowledge is one I've always stressed when throwing around prep, because you need to know what the character knows to prep for in order to guess what they'd do. But no one ever listens to me and they all just say "prep" with no explanation. In these cases I assume basic knowledge, like the stuff you'd find with a quick google search or looking at a wikipedia page. That would be more than enough to get Majestic going on the power cosmic and investigating it with his own technology. Even if he didn't have that basic information, he could get it on his own. The OP says Majestic met a herald in space so he's observed one. Majestic's senses are such that he can sense variations in time and space, can see auras and feel energy fields, and all manner of other things. Him simply feeling the different energies around him is probably his most frequently displayed super sense actually. So that's some first hand information, and he also has all sorts of Kheran tech that can gather more information for him, including tech that can search other realities. He's bragged about his computer saying it taps into every computer on every planet including numerous alternate Earths (and given that in one timeline the WSU and Marvel 616 were once the same universe and they've crossed over in several comics, I think some Marvel Earths would show up) so that would give him access to Marvel information about the power cosmic. So Majestic could gather his own knowledge, and also look at information that's been gathered already. His computer also processes at such a speed that hours equate to lifetimes (now, if that's in Kheran lifetimes that'd be ridiculous given that they live for thousands of years easily) so he could easily learn more about the power cosmic than Reed, Doom, or BP ever have. That answer the question of how he'd learn about the power cosmic?

As for his resistance to manipulation, he's been turned to stone (or in the process of being turned to stone) and then somehow turned himself back to flesh and blood moments later.

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#26 Posted by GhostRider2 (3571 posts) - - Show Bio

Heralds,but Surfer should handle him no problem without prep, with prep i don't know, well prep or not the heralds got his.

#27 Posted by Pierpat (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@pierpat said:

Like the thoughts.

But, i read nothing bout previous knowledge.So........how the f**k will majestros get siphon from them the power cosmic, if he probably does not know nothing about it?!

You're confronting the acts of the 2(maybe two out of three with reed richards) greatest human experts of the power cosmic, who have confronted with it's users many and many times, with someone who does not know even what it is!

he won't know his enemies use power cosmic, so he won't be able to use any brillant strategy he likes.

He'll prep like he does when he does not know his enemy, train and sharpen his blades, or something similar.

Really, i like being contrary too....but this is just seeking a plot device.

And, btw were does he proven resistant to molecular manipulation?

Ah, discourse, you're already a winner in my eyes.

The issue of knowledge is one I've always stressed when throwing around prep, because you need to know what the character knows to prep for in order to guess what they'd do. But no one ever listens to me and they all just say "prep" with no explanation. In these cases I assume basic knowledge, like the stuff you'd find with a quick google search or looking at a wikipedia page. That would be more than enough to get Majestic going on the power cosmic and investigating it with his own technology. Even if he didn't have that basic information, he could get it on his own. The OP says Majestic met a herald in space so he's observed one. Majestic's senses are such that he can sense variations in time and space, can see auras and feel energy fields, and all manner of other things. Him simply feeling the different energies around him is probably his most frequently displayed super sense actually. So that's some first hand information, and he also has all sorts of Kheran tech that can gather more information for him, including tech that can search other realities. He's bragged about his computer saying it taps into every computer on every planet including numerous alternate Earths (and given that in one timeline the WSU and Marvel 616 were once the same universe and they've crossed over in several comics, I think some Marvel Earths would show up) so that would give him access to Marvel information about the power cosmic. So Majestic could gather his own knowledge, and also look at information that's been gathered already. His computer also processes at such a speed that hours equate to lifetimes (now, if that's in Kheran lifetimes that'd be ridiculous given that they live for thousands of years easily) so he could easily learn more about the power cosmic than Reed, Doom, or BP ever have. That answer the question of how he'd learn about the power cosmic?

As for his resistance to manipulation, he's been turned to stone (or in the process of being turned to stone) and then somehow turned himself back to flesh and blood moments later.

Ah, this is what often happens when i encounter a good debater: the OP divides us.

The op is unclear on what knowledge both teams have and, mainly, in witch universe we are(that would be fundamental to find other info about the big G).

because, if we carefully read the op, it's not clear. And i don't think that majestros's senses go that far.He would get they are powerful, they are energy-enchanted, but Comsic energy?!Siphoning cosmic power imho is not that simple, doom, who had more knowledge and magic by his side took months to manage.

So, it's all up to a simulation of majestro's inventive and tecnological ability, and the complexity of siphoning cosmic power, the grade of majestros's sensing abilities.

I think he could not manage, you think he could.We could be both right or wrong, but i honestly liked this mini-debate.

Talking about the famous rock-back-to-flesh feat, it's not molecular resistance, it's previously stated magic resistance, since his enemies there were wizards, and not molecular manipulators.

#28 Edited by NeonGameWave (8970 posts) - - Show Bio

Scenario 1 - Majestic wins

Scenario 2 - Majestic kills all of them or has them severely beaten

Scenario 3 - Mr. Majestic should win after a long and taxing fight

Off Topic: Mr Majestic>>>>>>>>>>Superman

#29 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: The question here is only partially about the ambiguity of the OP. The other part of the question is about quantifying how difficult it is to understand and counteract the Power Cosmic. Are we at least agreed that if Majestic can do that, then he wins or has a very good chance of victory?

#30 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

Ah, this is what often happens when i encounter a good debater: the OP divides us.

The op is unclear on what knowledge both teams have and, mainly, in witch universe we are(that would be fundamental to find other info about the big G).

because, if we carefully read the op, it's not clear. And i don't think that majestros's senses go that far.He would get they are powerful, they are energy-enchanted, but Comsic energy?!Siphoning cosmic power imho is not that simple, doom, who had more knowledge and magic by his side took months to manage.

So, it's all up to a simulation of majestro's inventive and tecnological ability, and the complexity of siphoning cosmic power, the grade of majestros's sensing abilities.

I think he could not manage, you think he could.We could be both right or wrong, but i honestly liked this mini-debate.

Talking about the famous rock-back-to-flesh feat, it's not molecular resistance, it's previously stated magic resistance, since his enemies there were wizards, and not molecular manipulators.

I don't think what universe they're in matters at all. If they're in the Wildstorm universe, the Kheran Difference Engine still allows him to access every computer, including those in other universes, so he wouldn't have to be on Marvel Earth to get Marvel information. And even if he couldn't access that information for some reason, his computers are still more the powerful enough to learn about the power cosmic on their own. As for Majestic's senses not going that far, I didn't suggest they would. I wasn't saying just by being around a herald he'd know everything about the power cosmic, but he'd certainly be able to recognize it as a unique form of energy he hasn't come across yet (like how he could note that the auras around people from the DC universe were different from the ones in his universe) and then would know to investigate it further. Though, given that he does work on the plane where stars are born, has harvested them, and is familiar with their energies, he's likely familiar with ambient cosmic energy of that type. Also notable is that apparently cosmic energy affects the auras/souls of those it is in, and that's something Majestic has specifically said he can sense and sense in detail. I think he'd get quite a lot from his hypersenses and whatever he didn't get he'd know to look for. And since he's shown that he knows how to redirect and control the flow of far more vast cosmic energies, I think figuring out how to divert those energies to himself would be well within his abilities. Yeah Doom took months, but Majestic can work at speeds that can get decades of work done in minutes, plus he has tech already suited to this purpose half made in his shop. And since you're referencing magic, Majestic works with magic in his tech/prep feats. When he became one with the cosmos and started creating new stars magic was mentioned and the forge where he makes his tech mixes science and magic. Majestic works with energy in all forms.

I don't really see any reason Majestic wouldn't be able to siphon the power cosmic. He can sense the energy and knows it's important. He can investigate it on his own with staggeringly advanced technology and also just take the information that's already been collected by others that have performed the feat. He's shown the ability to use tech to manipulate vast reality warping powers in another being for his own purposes, and he has the speed to do all of these things faster than anyone has before. And then there's the fact that there have been a number of times that tech created by people nowhere near as smart as Majestic has been used on the Silver Surfer to drain his powers (sometimes when that wasn't even it's original purpose). There's far more reason to believe he could that to think he couldn't.

The enemies being magicians doesn't mean that Majestic's molecules weren't changed. If anything, Majestic overcoming a magical transmutation is more impressive because he has less experience with pure magic. But really, someone shooting a ray gun at him and turning him to stone would still result in him being stone, but somehow he was able to force his body to return to its natural state. Also, given the ties between cosmic energies and magic (Strange has said that magic comes from the stars), a blast from Surfer or one of his bodies that turns someone into something else is probably just as much science as it is magic. Matter is changed through an application of PIS energy. It's basically the same.

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#31 Edited by highaccuser (8422 posts) - - Show Bio

It's my understanding Majestic has Thanos level strength. He moved a SUN. Supes can move planets easily after a sun dip, but if we say the planet weighed a chess peice, could you move something with the weight of a million chess peices? Majestic moved a solidified jupiter, which is a million times the size of the planets superman has moved. And the sun is far larger than jupiter. Plus majestic traveled the milky way in a couple of minutes. Surfer can fly at a hundred thousand times the speed of light according to marvel wikia, but I give the speed the majestic. After he beats surfer, he can just blitz everyone else.

#32 Edited by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Edited by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@misterwhisper said:

Edited the OP to make it a little more clear on knowledge for prep.

Wait, so can Majestic gain further information or is he limited to only what he could pick up in two minutes? (If it's the second I think that's kind of stacked against him given that cosmic awareness grants way more information in that time, but really, if he can rig something to contain reality warping energies I think he could manage the power cosmic.)

And if you'd like, I'll share with you how I describe prep. There are levels in between but I think I liked these three for a starting point.

1: Common knowledge - Whatever a person on the street in the character's universe would know

2: Basic knowledge - Knowledge that would be gained from reading a wiki page or CV entry and (maybe) looking at a capability thread

4: Extensive knowledge - Access to every comic appearance of the other character

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#34 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Majestic preps, but I'm not entirely sure it would be that easy to get the Power Cosmic-stealing shiz...if he could, he wins 1 and 2 but there's no way he's winning 3.

#35 Edited by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot:

No that is just all he is getting in first hand knowledge.

What he can research with his own resources is wide open.

#36 Posted by King Saturn (225046 posts) - - Show Bio

Majestic vs Silver Surfer would be a battle into itself... I think Majestic could handle the rest of the Heralds though.

#37 Posted by robertloucksjr (1833 posts) - - Show Bio

Herald Destroyer? Doesn't he have basically Juggernaut durability without a psionic and magic vulnerability, only ever hurt by being blasted by multiple Celestials and even then he was later reformed? Isn't his disintegration beam pretty much Darkseid eyebeam level? Isn't he basically inhabited by the will of Galactus?

Crap, I think I would take him over Silver Surfer.

#38 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5293 posts) - - Show Bio

SS is enough to beat him. Heralds murder him.

#39 Posted by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub:

While I am not saying who wins in my opinion as it is my thread, however I will say that I defiantly do not see Norrin taking him out by himself.

#40 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5293 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterWhisper you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

#41 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterWhisper you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

Can I hear your reasoning given the stipulations of the fight?

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#42 Posted by King Saturn (225046 posts) - - Show Bio

Herald Destroyer? Doesn't he have basically Juggernaut durability without a psionic and magic vulnerability, only ever hurt by being blasted by multiple Celestials and even then he was later reformed? Isn't his disintegration beam pretty much Darkseid eyebeam level? Isn't he basically inhabited by the will of Galactus?

Crap, I think I would take him over Silver Surfer.

Destroyer is too slow though... I mean Majestic would have to be purposely moving like The Blob to be tagged by him.

#43 Edited by ssejllenrad (12790 posts) - - Show Bio

Only way Majestros would win (especially that last round) is if he was Universal Majestic. Other than that, he losses. Now if UM happens to beat Galan, I do think he would not win against Abraxas.

#44 Posted by MisterWhisper (2185 posts) - - Show Bio

@robertloucksjr:

I would not really call the destroyer's disintegration beam Omega Beam level. It is pretty high up there though.

#45 Edited by toptom (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

mr majestic can't win here. putting One herald down would be hard even form him, but putting him against ALL OF THEM is just crazy.

i know that here there are people like buckshot who proprably think that mj can defeat Galactus while drinking a cup of tea but this doesn't render this thread anything else than a spite thread.

howeve if anyone really believes that mj's prep would be a major factor here (smh..) they should know that he has had WEEKS of prep against Hadrian but he could just built a suit that could stop him for no more than 5 minutes.

#46 Edited by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom said:

mr majestic can't win here. putting One herald down would be hard even form him, but putting him against ALL OF THEM is just crazy.

i know that here there are people like buckshot who proprably think that mj can defeat Galactus while drinking a cup of tea but this doesn't render this thread anything else than a spite thread.

howeve if anyone really believes that mj's prep would be a major factor here (smh..) they should know that he has had WEEKS of prep against Hadrian but he could just built a suit that could stop him for no more than 5 minutes.

What was the point in abusing Buckshot? Take out the hate, and you would have put forward your opinion just as clearly.

#47 Edited by Bo88gdan (4635 posts) - - Show Bio

Heralds

#48 Edited by toptom (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@toptom said:

mr majestic can't win here. putting One herald down would be hard even form him, but putting him against ALL OF THEM is just crazy.

i know that here there are people like buckshot who proprably think that mj can defeat Galactus while drinking a cup of tea but this doesn't render this thread anything else than a spite thread.

howeve if anyone really believes that mj's prep would be a major factor here (smh..) they should know that he has had WEEKS of prep against Hadrian but he could just built a suit that could stop him for no more than 5 minutes.

What was the point in abusing Buckshot? Take out the hate, and you would have put forward your opinion just as clearly.

there isn't hate here. i was just stating a fact.he is one of the best dibaters around here,no doubt in that, but i don't think that there is or there was a single thread in which he has said that mj can't win,not even here where he is absurdely out-classed.

but of course everybody is free to post their opinions.

#49 Posted by Pierpat (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: The question here is only partially about the ambiguity of the OP. The other part of the question is about quantifying how difficult it is to understand and counteract the Power Cosmic. Are we at least agreed that if Majestic can do that, then he wins or has a very good chance of victory?

Sure, as i stated before your post:

So, it's all up to a simulation of majestro's inventive and tecnological ability, and the complexity of siphoning cosmic power, the grade of majestros's sensing abilities.

If he does manage to do it....well he has 8/10 in 1st round, 6.5/10 in 2nd, but still is way out in 3rd due to ultimate nullifer.

@buckshot said:

@pierpat said:

Ah, this is what often happens when i encounter a good debater: the OP divides us.

The op is unclear on what knowledge both teams have and, mainly, in witch universe we are(that would be fundamental to find other info about the big G).

because, if we carefully read the op, it's not clear. And i don't think that majestros's senses go that far.He would get they are powerful, they are energy-enchanted, but Comsic energy?!Siphoning cosmic power imho is not that simple, doom, who had more knowledge and magic by his side took months to manage.

So, it's all up to a simulation of majestro's inventive and tecnological ability, and the complexity of siphoning cosmic power, the grade of majestros's sensing abilities.

I think he could not manage, you think he could.We could be both right or wrong, but i honestly liked this mini-debate.

Talking about the famous rock-back-to-flesh feat, it's not molecular resistance, it's previously stated magic resistance, since his enemies there were wizards, and not molecular manipulators.

I don't think what universe they're in matters at all. If they're in the Wildstorm universe, the Kheran Difference Engine still allows him to access every computer, including those in other universes, so he wouldn't have to be on Marvel Earth to get Marvel information. And even if he couldn't access that information for some reason, his computers are still more the powerful enough to learn about the power cosmic on their own. As for Majestic's senses not going that far, I didn't suggest they would. I wasn't saying just by being around a herald he'd know everything about the power cosmic, but he'd certainly be able to recognize it as a unique form of energy he hasn't come across yet (like how he could note that the auras around people from the DC universe were different from the ones in his universe) and then would know to investigate it further. Though, given that he does work on the plane where stars are born, has harvested them, and is familiar with their energies, he's likely familiar with ambient cosmic energy of that type. Also notable is that apparently cosmic energy affects the auras/souls of those it is in, and that's something Majestic has specifically said he can sense and sense in detail. I think he'd get quite a lot from his hypersenses and whatever he didn't get he'd know to look for. And since he's shown that he knows how to redirect and control the flow of far more vast cosmic energies, I think figuring out how to divert those energies to himself would be well within his abilities. Yeah Doom took months, but Majestic can work at speeds that can get decades of work done in minutes, plus he has tech already suited to this purpose half made in his shop. And since you're referencing magic, Majestic works with magic in his tech/prep feats. When he became one with the cosmos and started creating new stars magic was mentioned and the forge where he makes his tech mixes science and magic. Majestic works with energy in all forms.

I don't really see any reason Majestic wouldn't be able to siphon the power cosmic. He can sense the energy and knows it's important. He can investigate it on his own with staggeringly advanced technology and also just take the information that's already been collected by others that have performed the feat. He's shown the ability to use tech to manipulate vast reality warping powers in another being for his own purposes, and he has the speed to do all of these things faster than anyone has before. And then there's the fact that there have been a number of times that tech created by people nowhere near as smart as Majestic has been used on the Silver Surfer to drain his powers (sometimes when that wasn't even it's original purpose). There's far more reason to believe he could that to think he couldn't.

The enemies being magicians doesn't mean that Majestic's molecules weren't changed. If anything, Majestic overcoming a magical transmutation is more impressive because he has less experience with pure magic. But really, someone shooting a ray gun at him and turning him to stone would still result in him being stone, but somehow he was able to force his body to return to its natural state. Also, given the ties between cosmic energies and magic (Strange has said that magic comes from the stars), a blast from Surfer or one of his bodies that turns someone into something else is probably just as much science as it is magic. Matter is changed through an application of PIS energy. It's basically the same.

Heya, i was going soft, you went quite rough.

Let's be clear, going by feats, if in dc's arc majestros did not do anything really good from that point of view, he won't be able imho, i said it could depend because i did not wanted to be rough.

With op better specified, i stand my point.To scientists alot more expert than majestros it took longer , with ALOT more knowledge.

You cannot tell by sure, because majestros has not done anything that level before, and i can't be sure the other way. Let's be honest, it's all in our personal opinion.

I remeber his computer could research every data of the universe, not the multiverse.As always, i could easily be mistaking.

And about the magic/molecular manipulation, as magic is "magic", it can do things "magically", without a scientific backup.

So, how do you know it was manipulating molecules?

#50 Edited by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

Heya, i was going soft, you went quite rough.

Let's be clear, going by feats, if in dc's arc majestros did not do anything really good from that point of view, he won't be able imho, i said it could depend because i did not wanted to be rough.

With op better specified, i stand my point.To scientists alot more expert than majestros it took longer , with ALOT more knowledge.

You cannot tell by sure, because majestros has not done anything that level before, and i can't be sure the other way. Let's be honest, it's all in our personal opinion.

I remeber his computer could research every data of the universe, not the multiverse.As always, i could easily be mistaking.

And about the magic/molecular manipulation, as magic is "magic", it can do things "magically", without a scientific backup.

So, how do you know it was manipulating molecules?

I'm not really sure what your "let's be clear" line is talking about. Majestic doesn't have to have done anything "really good" while he was in DC for his other feats to matter. But, if that's the way you want to play it, when he appeared on DC Earth the smartest people ("the finest technical minds on Earth" as it was stated, and that also included some minds from Krypton by the way since Eradicator was there) there had a plan to stop a time storm that was ripping reality apart. Majestic took one look at a device that they had created and not only did he instantly know everything about how it would function, but he was able to tell them that their plan wouldn't work. So, Majestic, in seconds, proved to be smarter that "the finest technical minds" of DC. That's a pretty significant feat of intelligence.

The idea that it took scientists "a lot more expert than Maj" longer with more knowledge is a weak one. Why are they more expert? Because they had more time and knowledge? OK, their "expert status" is irrelevant. They may have had more time, but with Majestic's speed, he can experience far more time than they've ever had in their lives, so their greater time is simply incorrect. And they may have had more knowledge, but that was before Majestic put his own super computers and remarkable personal intelligence to the task, so "more knowledge" now goes to him. Majestic could have more time and more knowledge of the power cosmic, and that's before getting into him simply taking the knowledge that's already been gathered. I've already made it clear that you were mistaken about what the Kheran Difference Engine could do. It says, on panel, that its accessing computers from alternate Earths. What is Earth 616 (or any other Marvel Earth) but an alternate Earth? The idea that Marvel is for some reason too separate for him to access doesn't really come from anywhere in the comic. The fact that the worlds have crossed over multiple time actually suggests that they're close enough for Majestic to access. And just so we're clear, I don't think Majestic needs to get on Reed Richard's computer or something to get info about the Silver Surfer. Majestic's computer is a powerful machine on its own, but peaking just rips your argument to shreds so I figured I'd take the short way.

Majestic being able to the limit a far more potent power (also his experience with handling several different far more potent reality warping powers throughout his life) suggests to me that he'd be able to steal the power cosmic. You think he couldn't because he hasn't studied it even though his brilliance and technology means he could and because he hasn't been around it as long even though his speed means he could study for longer than anyone else has. The only support you have for him not being able to do it is that you think it would be too hard, but he has used a mix of science and magic to warp reality, trapped someone with the power to literally rewrite reality, cut off a multiversal reality warper from the full extent of his powers, embarrassed the most brilliant minds of DC Earth, he has hands on experience with harvesting cosmic energy, and regularly goes around instantly understanding alien energies and technologies. Majestic handles energy of this sort and greater, so him stealing the power cosmic seems more than doable. And you haven't even responded to my comment about the numerous other times technology has bested Surfer, and tech that was made by people not as smart as Reed, Doom, or Majestic, and sometimes tech that wasn't even originally built to drain the Surfer. Here's a short list: Iron Man's normal suit, Kree weaponry, the control discs from Planet Hulk (I'm aware it wasn't the only factor, but it kept him at a restricted power level), the space pirates in In Thy Name, a tech-enhanced Skrull, the "leech gauntlets" from that mercenary group created by Ron Marz, Dynamo City, and GIGO. Tech works on power cosmic users and you don't have to be smarter than everyone on DC Earth to come up with it.

You say he hasn't done anything like it before, but Majestic has become one with the cosmos before by mixing science and magic. He basically gave himself the power cosmic (I'd say he was even more in tune with cosmic energy than Surfer was because it was him) so how is that nothing close to what I'm saying? Because he didn't take it from someone and just gave it to himself directly? Seems like an even more impressive feat than stealing it, but ok. As I've mentioned multiple times, he also fought Spartan and was able limit his use of his own Void powers until he let him access them. Majestic controlling someone's access to reality warping powers even greater than the Power Cosmic seems close. Not enough? How about the time when he used the Creation Blades to cut off Tao from his reality warping powers? Majestic messes around with greater energies than the power cosmic. Sure, these are to some extent personal opinions, but mine are supported by the fact that Majestic has done this level of cosmic energy play before while yours is based on the idea that it's too hard even though its been done multiple times before.

Your response is to just use the word magic over and over? Someone applied an unidentifiable energy to Majestic and turned him to stone. He undid it without any aid. The powers these characters would use are canonically referred to as the source of the previously mentioned energy. You want to split it up into "science energy" and "magic energy" but when they're just random energy blasts, it's really not that much different, especially when you have Dr. Strange saying that magic comes from the stars. They're both just PIS energy sources. Really though, the matter manipulation discussion is foolishness since no matter gets manipulated if Majestic already has the power cosmic at his command.

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