Mr. Freeze (New 52) versus Daredevil

@Vance Astro:

I see your point and I suppose that is entirely true. But considering Freeze's vulnerability to physical attacks, I think that one hit or one combo would do the trick for DD as well.

Doesn't Daredevil just have to break his helmet and game over?

Cmon guys daredevil takes it, he's underestimated a lot, it bothers me.

can't dqaredevil use extreme heat force and melt freeze?

@deadpool6_6_6 said:

can't dqaredevil use extreme heat force and melt freeze?

Unfortunately for Murdock, a flamethrower isn't part of his standard gear.

@Vaeternus said:

Doesn't Daredevil just have to break his helmet and game over?

Easier said than done. It didn't break after numerous hits from Batman or a pistol whip from Jason Todd. It seems to knock his head around, but we haven't seen New 52 Freeze's helmet shatter yet.

@Recoil1985 said:

@Vaeternus said:

Doesn't Daredevil just have to break his helmet and game over?

Easier said than done. It didn't break after numerous hits from Batman or a pistol whip from Jason Todd. It seems to knock his head around, but we haven't seen New 52 Freeze's helmet shatter yet.

good point, perhaps its more durable then we thought

@Vaeternus said:

@Recoil1985 said:

@Vaeternus said:

Doesn't Daredevil just have to break his helmet and game over?

Easier said than done. It didn't break after numerous hits from Batman or a pistol whip from Jason Todd. It seems to knock his head around, but we haven't seen New 52 Freeze's helmet shatter yet.

good point, perhaps its more durable then we thought

Does he need a head shot?

@daak1212 said:

@Vaeternus said:

@Recoil1985 said:

@Vaeternus said:

Doesn't Daredevil just have to break his helmet and game over?

Easier said than done. It didn't break after numerous hits from Batman or a pistol whip from Jason Todd. It seems to knock his head around, but we haven't seen New 52 Freeze's helmet shatter yet.

good point, perhaps its more durable then we thought

Does he need a head shot?

I don't believe so. Nightwing took him down with a hit that appeared to land on the shoulder.

@Erik said:

• I would wager that Starfire has super speed but that does not translate to super human reflexes. In fact, her time in RHatO would lead me to believe her reflexes are very unimpressive.

Fair enough.

• DD likely could not dodge every single beam fired at him for an extended period but I do not think he needs to.

Ok, I'm willing to accept that Daredevil could dodge every beam in a random encounter since the fight may not go on long enough for Freeze to get a hit in, but what does he do about the freeze bomb?

• I do not think Batman needed his heating devices to break him out. Nightwing was no less frozen than Batman and he broke out with little effort. It is ice after all. The heating devices just made it more convenient for him and it only took moments. Heating the tip of an ice cube does not cause the entire cube to explode. That was all Batman's strength.

If that's the case, I have no idea why he entered the fight with his heat-fists on. But even so, when Nightwing and Batman were frozen, Freeze could have easily killed them then and there if he wished. He had his gun trained on Dick for a while, he could have fired another shot to freeze him completely, and when he froze Bruce there was enough time for him to get back on to his feet and walk past him to Nora. Shall we say that is about 8-10 seconds of immobilization, maybe? Freeze can kill Matt before he breaks free, no problem. He did not kill Batman or Nightwing because he wanted something from them, namely Bruce Wayne's location. Hell, he didn't even bother trying to shoot Batman while Bruce was talking about Nora. He has no such issues here.

• So you are saying there is a massive inconsistency with Freeze's durability then? Because every time he took a hit in the annual, he folded like a lawn chair.

I don't think it's massive, and I think there was only one hit in the annual that made him fold like a lawn chair. He fell down after being punched repeatedly by Batman, but if you punch someone in the head repeatedly, they will fall down. He was not knocked out or anything, was he? He froze Bruce, got back on his feet and continued walking.

I think you might have misunderstood, I don't mean that hitting Freeze in the dome will have no effect (although that effect would likely be limited to just falling down, which is what happened when Batman hit him. I mean that breaking the dome might not be possible. The dome is likely the only part of Freeze's body with real durability. A speeding batmobile would knock him out, certainly, but it would not break the dome. At least that's how I interpreted that statement, since it was made after the arrow Roy fired struck the dome.

About the freeze bomb, I just want to make sure that you guys are aware of the limitations I set for it. We've only seen it used once in point blank, so I thought I'd elaborate to help clear it up:

@Recoil1985 said:

For the sake of balance, I'm assuming the freeze grenade as a smaller radius (by a few feet or so) than an actual frag grenade

@Recoil1985: I doubt people can actually visualize the difference, lol.

Interesting, I would say then DD could potentially take down Mr. Freeze since NW took him down with a crack to the shoulder, you know? I'm sure NW and DD are comparable in terms of agility.

@ReVamp said:

@Recoil1985: I doubt people can actually visualize the difference, lol.

Heh, true.

@CitizenBane said:

Ok, I'm willing to accept that Daredevil could dodge every beam in a random encounter since the fight may not go on long enough for Freeze to get a hit in, but what does he do about the freeze bomb?

• Think warm thoughts. :p Okay in all seriousness, DD does have the option of throwing a billy club out to knock it away, possibly knocking it out of range. Since he has no other defense against the bomb, I would say that if it cannot be knocked out of range, it would incapacitate DD at least temporarily.

If that's the case, I have no idea why he entered the fight with his heat-fists on. But even so, when Nightwing and Batman were frozen, Freeze could have easily killed them then and there if he wished. He had his gun trained on Dick for a while, he could have fired another shot to freeze him completely, and when he froze Bruce there was enough time for him to get back on to his feet and walk past him to Nora. Shall we say that is about 8-10 seconds of immobilization, maybe? Freeze can kill Matt before he breaks free, no problem. He did not kill Batman or Nightwing because he wanted something from them, namely Bruce Wayne's location. Hell, he didn't even bother trying to shoot Batman while Bruce was talking about Nora. He has no such issues here.

• I might be able to offer you an explanation as to why he came in with the heated fists. Heat seriously hurts Freeze. Other than that, your argument on the length of incapacitation is sound. If it happens, assuming Freeze does not have an intention to monologue, he could kill while DD is stuck.

I don't think it's massive, and I think there was only one hit in the annual that made him fold like a lawn chair. He fell down after being punched repeatedly by Batman, but if you punch someone in the head repeatedly, they will fall down. He was not knocked out or anything, was he? He froze Bruce, got back on his feet and continued walking.

• I do think it is massive. Getting hit by a speeding armored vehicle and be no worse for wear, yet dropping to a whack to the shoulder with an escrima stick is a shockingly high difference in durability. As for his fight with Batman, he was also dropped in one hit. Batman just hit him twice, once being while Freeze was down. This is clear by the directional path of Batman's strikes. So both times he was initially hit, Freeze folded. And it is true that he was not knocked out but that is hardly saying much. On hit is enough to make him have to pick himself up off the floor, multiple hits would keep him down.

I think you might have misunderstood, I don't mean that hitting Freeze in the dome will have no effect (although that effect would likely be limited to just falling down, which is what happened when Batman hit him. I mean thatbreaking the dome might not be possible. The dome is likely the only part of Freeze's body with real durability. A speeding batmobile would knock him out, certainly, but it would not break the dome. At least that's how I interpreted that statement, since it was made after the arrow Roy fired struck the dome.

• I already acknowledged that breaking the dome might not be easily possible in my last post, so I think I did understand that part of what you were saying. I do not think the statement meant to imply that the dome was the only thing with durability. It seems silly to me that his dome would be the only thing highly durable and getting struck by a batmobile is something to gloat about if it KOd him anyway. Besides that, I still question the validity of his statement about the batmobile when looking at his displayed durability in the annual. Even if the dome is protected, it appeared to offer him little protection against Batman's fists.

Don't know. Probably Freeze after a good fight.