• 66 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

Who?

Where and when?

Hell's Kitchen, New York. 10pm and they begin at the opposite end of a block. The streets are deserted but plenty of items (parked vehicles, lamp posts, bus stops and such) remain. The entire area is on limits. This includes the streets, rooftops, alleyways, buildings and sewer.

What?

This is New 52 Mr. Freeze. He has his basic gun and one freeze bomb. Feats from Batman Annual 1 and Red Hood and the Outlaws 9 are applicable. Daredevil has his standard gear. This is a random encounter, however, Daredevil knows the basics of Mr. Freeze's powers and Freeze knows nothing about Daredevil. All standard elimination methods apply.

#2 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

Before anyone boldly assumes it's a stomp in favor of Freeze, keep in mind we saw this version of Freeze is absolutely vulnerable to physical attacks. Talon was giving him trouble, Todd stunned him with a pistol whip, and Nightwing temporarily downed him with a strike via his escrima.

#3 Posted by Dernman (14047 posts) - - Show Bio
@Recoil1985: I have never seen anybody vote in favor of Mr Freeze being a stomp on anyone before.
#4 Posted by deadpoolrules (4683 posts) - - Show Bio

if you say so,daredevil

#5 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: @deadpoolrules: My statement wasn't to imply that Daredevil wins. It's just there to point out that Freeze isn't completely immune to Daredevil's physical attacks. He's had various armors over the years so I just wanted to clarify.

#6 Posted by deadpoolrules (4683 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rec@Recoil1985 said:

@Dernman: @deadpoolrules: My statement wasn't to imply that Daredevil wins. It's just there to point out that Freeze isn't completely immune to Daredevil's physical attacks. He's had various armors over the years so I just wanted to clarify.

DD still winning 4 me,cause if frezee is vulnerable,after a good fight DD should win

#7 Posted by Chaos Burn (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

DDs senses would pick out some weakness in his tech, some weakspot that he'll smack

#8 Posted by Dernman (14047 posts) - - Show Bio
@Recoil1985: I didn't think you were suggesting Daredevil wins. I thought you were implying people were automatically going to say Mr Freeze stomps without really giving Daredevil a fair thought.   I just found it odd because I would think the opposite that people would say Daredevil without giving Mr Freeze a fair thought.
#9 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman:

I thought you were implying people were automatically going to say Mr Freeze stomps without really giving Daredevil a fair thought.

Correct. I just wanted to make sure the statement wasn't misinterpreted.

I just found it odd because I would think the opposite that people would say Daredevil without giving Mr Freeze a fair thought.

Some might think Daredevil can't properly harm Freeze, while others might abuse the fact Freeze can technically win with a single touch. I just want to make sure a rational debate is brought here instead of a sea of "x stomps" remarks :D

#10 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

Any other takers?

#11 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

While he hasn't had a load of feats, I'm gonna go with Freeze.

#12 Posted by Joygirl (15407 posts) - - Show Bio

Meestah Fleeeeeze!

#13 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman: @Joygirl: Por que?

#14 Posted by deadpool6_6_6 (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@Recoil1985: I have never seen anybody vote in favor of Mr Freeze being a stomp on anyone before.

same here. i think freeze would win.

#15 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

Freeze might specialize in cryogenics, but he's a genius in his own regard. He would only need to tag DD once. I don't know what the blast proximity of his freeze bomb is, but I think it would be large enough for DD to get hit by it, knicked at the very least. Also he could spam freeze gun lol.

#16 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Freeze might specialize in cryogenics, but he's a genius in his own regard. He would only need to tag DD once. I don't know what the blast proximity of his freeze bomb is, but I think it would be large enough for DD to get hit by it, knicked at the very least. Also he could spam freeze gun lol.

Spamming that gun didn't seem to do much good against the Talon or Batman ;)

For the sake of balance, I'm assuming the freeze grenade as a smaller radius than an actual frag grenade

#17 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Recoil1985 Lol. It would definetly be close, Daredevil is known for dodging projectiles easily. My thing is if Freeze just tags him once, it's over. 5/10 for both of them.

#18 Posted by Joygirl (15407 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, I don't even know anything about N52 Freeze. I just like him better and I believe he has what it takes to win, so I'm siding with him.

#19 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Both issues with him have been really good (RHatO 9 & Batman Annual 1).

#20 Posted by Erik (29926 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil.

#21 Posted by Illuminatus (9411 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm digging Freeze's little fail mohawk he's rockin'. Old men ftw.

#22 Edited by Saren (24401 posts) - - Show Bio

I am leaning towards Freeze. He trapped Batman in ice with a freeze grenade thing, Batman had tech that allowed him to break out, Daredevil does not. Matt can certainly win by hitting Freeze hard enough to knock him out with one strike, but it is unlikely that he will do so knowing only the basics of Freeze's power and therefore not knowing how much of a threat he is. Xiao Loong, Jason and Dick all had more knowledge on Freeze than that. Freeze in comparison does not need any knowledge on Daredevil, if he sees a costumed vigilante jumping around he will treat him the way he treated the other costumed vigilantes he encountered.

Moderator
#23 Posted by Erik (29926 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane:

DD can assess certain thing at a "glance" that would not normally be apparent though. Such as immediately knowing that getting touched by Freeze is a no-no. DD also has super human reflexes and senses that help him dodge projectiles and aside from the odd cardboard plane, he has a pretty good track record. He also is going to find out that Freeze is not durable at all. I highly doubt Freeze can tag DD in H2H. The only reason I saw that he managed to touch Damian was because Damian was getting sloppy or careless in his impatience. Daredevil does not even need to get in close to hit Freeze. And he could likely guess that those goggles are a weak point for Freeze considering they are the only human temperature part of Freeze's body. A baton to the glass dome and a snag of the goggles and Freeze is in vast amounts of pain and permanently blinded.

In fact, I am pretty certain that Nightwing could have taken Freeze as well. Just because he was encased in ice, does not mean he was defeated. He seemed to have no trouble getting himself out once freeze was led away. Come to think of it, Nightwing pretty much beat Freeze in one hit but his gloating allowed Freeze to take advantage of the environment.

#24 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem I have defending DD is the factor of Mr.Freeze putting DD away in one move.DD would have to completely dominate Freeze not to lose the majority.I can't see that happening.This is a Batman villain, someone who is created to be able to be a formidable match for the Dark Knight.If he was a DD villain I would expect him to win via plot device every time.

Moderator
#25 Posted by daak1212 (7853 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure Daredevil is quick and agile enough to not be tagged by Freeze

#26 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

I'm pretty sure Daredevil is quick and agile enough to not be tagged by Freeze

100% of the time?
Moderator
#27 Posted by daak1212 (7853 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@daak1212 said:

I'm pretty sure Daredevil is quick and agile enough to not be tagged by Freeze

100% of the time?

Hmm that's something Im thinking about. How easy was it for Freeze to tag Batman and such?

#28 Posted by Dernman (14047 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
The problem I have defending DD is the factor of Mr.Freeze putting DD away in one move.DD would have to completely dominate Freeze not to lose the majority.I can't see that happening.This is a Batman villain, someone who is created to be able to be a formidable match for the Dark Knight.If he was a DD villain I would expect him to win via plot device every time.
You don't see DD as being in Batman's league? Just curious as to where you are coming from. I'm not really a fan of DD's
#29 Posted by daak1212 (7853 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to sound quite stupid but hopefully it will make sense to someone. I think Daredevil can and should win this. I think Daredevil with his superhuman agility and the fact that he is no slouch in the dip-game department (Daredevil one against Spot) and that when Daredevil knows the location he pretty much exploits the holy crap out of it (Hulk 50 where he got Ironman stuck in Spider-mans webs) Im pretty sure he can avoid Freeze and get the jump on him being as everything is in use

#30 Posted by TDK_1997 (13739 posts) - - Show Bio

Mister Freeze can take him down.He trapped Batman and Batman only escaped because he was prepared for this kind of attack while DD isn't.

#31 Posted by Saren (24401 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: Given that we are only 9 issues into the new 52 at this point, I do not have much to substantiate this position, but I would wager that Starfire's reflexes are not too shabby either, and Freeze shot her in the face while she had him in plain sight. Daredevil is very agile, yes, agility is a trademark of the character, and so I don't doubt that he can dodge most of the beams that Freeze sends his way. But can he dodge every single one of them? If even a single beam hits Matt, he is frozen for at least a while, and thus an easy target. In close combat, two things are possible, either Daredevil takes advantage of the massive skill gap and pulverizes Victor before he can land a hit, or Freeze touches Matt once and freezes him the way he did Nightwing, which either immobilizes him right there or at least slows him down to the point where he can get hit by another freeze beam. Also, the freeze bomb that he used against Batman appeared to be an omni-directional weapon, so no amount of agility is going to avoid that. And it froze Batman enough that he needed his hand-heating thing to escape. Daredevil has no such gadget on him.

I don't agree with the statement that Freeze is not durable at all. He is certainly not durable to the point where he will not be hurt by Daredevil's attacks, or potentially even one-shotted by a hard enough hit, but he took a kick from Xiao Loong, who was stronger than Red Hood. It knocked him back but he was none the worse for it. He also took two punches from Batman and didn't faint and fall. Nightwing downed him with a hit from the escrima stick, but in Red Hood and the Outlaws #9, his skin appeared to actually be ice (or at least covered with a layer of ice) while it was just skin in the Batman annual. Whether this was an addition he made to himself or just artistic flair, I have no clue, but if it's the former (it appeared to crack in some places, so it should be) then it might enhance his durability somewhat. The tactic of blinding Freeze with a baton to the goggles is not going to work. That glass dome appears to be too durable for that, it was unaffected by Red Hood's pistol whip and when Roy shot an arrow at it Freeze remarked that arrows would not do crap because he'd been hit by a speeding batmobile. If the dome is durable enough that a speeding batmobile will not break it upon impact, the billy clubs should not have any more luck with it either.

Moderator
#32 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil.

#33 Edited by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:

You don't see DD as being in Batman's league? Just curious as to where you are coming from. I'm not really a fan of DD's

Daredevil and Batman are in the same league.The point I was making in my post is the difference in how those characters are written.Of course, Batman isn't going to dodge Freeze 100% of the time, one could argue that Daredevil is more agile or is better at dodging but the two aren't two far off in that respect.What becomes the difference is the utility belt.The amount of preparation Batman is accustomed to in just about every situation is why I think Daredevil would have to beat Freeze via plot device.Daredevil will never be "ready" for Mr.Freeze.He has villains of is own that are like that.Typhoid Mary for example could burn Matt down to his skeleton on sight..she doesn't because the writers won't let her do it.Batman would get burned once and have some type of resistant fabric in his costume or some type of defense.DD on the other hand will have just his billy club...every time.But still beat her,get what I mean?
Moderator
#34 Edited by The Stegman (20867 posts) - - Show Bio

.IT WILL BE A COLD NIGHT IN HELL'S KITCHEN!!

#35 Posted by daak1212 (7853 posts) - - Show Bio

No one else thinks that Daredevil knowing the area wont work for his advantage?

#36 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

No one else thinks that Daredevil knowing the area wont work for his advantage?

I think it will help.Don't know if it will play out to be a win though.
Moderator
#37 Posted by Reptilicus (676 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to say Freeze, but how easy can his helmet be cracked?

#38 Posted by daak1212 (7853 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik: Given that we are only 9 issues into the new 52 at this point, I do not have much to substantiate this position, but I would wager that Starfire's reflexes are not too shabby either, and Freeze shot her in the face while she had him in plain sight. Daredevil is very agile, yes, agility is a trademark of the character, and so I don't doubt that he can dodge most of the beams that Freeze sends his way. But can he dodge every single one of them? If even a single beam hits Matt, he is frozen for at least a while, and thus an easy target. In close combat, two things are possible, either Daredevil takes advantage of the massive skill gap and pulverizes Victor before he can land a hit, or Freeze touches Matt once and freezes him the way he did Nightwing, which either immobilizes him right there or at least slows him down to the point where he can get hit by another freeze beam. Also, the freeze bomb that he used against Batman appeared to be an omni-directional weapon, so no amount of agility is going to avoid that. And it froze Batman enough that he needed his hand-heating thing to escape. Daredevil has no such gadget on him.

I don't agree with the statement that Freeze is not durable at all. He is certainly not durable to the point where he will not be hurt by Daredevil's attacks, or potentially even one-shotted by a hard enough hit, but he took a kick from Xiao Loong, who was stronger than Red Hood. It knocked him back but he was none the worse for it. He also took two punches from Batman and didn't faint and fall. Nightwing downed him with a hit from the escrima stick, but in Red Hood and the Outlaws #9, his skin appeared to actually be ice (or at least covered with a layer of ice) while it was just skin in the Batman annual. Whether this was an addition he made to himself or just artistic flair, I have no clue, but if it's the former (it appeared to crack in some places, so it should be) then it might enhance his durability somewhat. The tactic of blinding Freeze with a baton to the goggles is not going to work. That glass dome appears to be too durable for that, it was unaffected by Red Hood's pistol whip and when Roy shot an arrow at it Freeze remarked that arrows would not do crap because he'd been hit by a speeding batmobile. If the dome is durable enough that a speeding batmobile will not break it upon impact, the billy clubs should not have any more luck with it either.

Nerve strikes and precision attacks? He did take down Bruiser by finding his weak point in his knee

#39 Posted by Bo88gdan (4374 posts) - - Show Bio

DD

#40 Posted by BeaverSauce (431 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil......................Is literally frozen in fear at the sight of Mr.Freeze

#41 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

Seeing as Freeze couldn't tag Grayson, Wayne or even the Talon with his gun, I'd say his agility is going to place a huge role here. Yes, Freeze gripping a wrist or an ankle could be a game changer, but that won't be easy for him to pull off when we take into account Murdock's radar and agility. On the flip side, taking Freeze down won't be an easy feat either.

Just keeping things alive, that's all :D

#42 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

Freeze will need multiple hits to be beaten, DD only needs to be hit once. Since DD can deliver multiple hits and Freeze is equally likely to get just one tag on DD, i believe this truly could go either way.

#43 Posted by Saren (24401 posts) - - Show Bio

@Recoil1985 said:

Seeing as Freeze couldn't tag Grayson, Wayne or even the Talon with his gun, I'd say his agility is going to place a huge role here. Yes, Freeze gripping a wrist or an ankle could be a game changer, but that won't be easy for him to pull off when we take into account Murdock's radar and agility. On the flip side, taking Freeze down won't be an easy feat either.

Just keeping things alive, that's all :D

Yes, but he only fired one shot at Dick. He either fired three shots against Bruce or it was one continuous beam, and on-panel he didn't fire any shots at the Talon so we don't know how that fight went. Daredevil's agility will obviously help, but his movements would have to be pitch perfect seeing as Freeze only needs to tag Matt once to at least slow him down.

Freeze might be able to widen the freeze beam to make his chances of hitting Daredevil better, he seemed to do so against the Penguin's thugs.

Moderator
#44 Edited by Erik (29926 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

The problem I have defending DD is the factor of Mr.Freeze putting DD away in one move.DD would have to completely dominate Freeze not to lose the majority.I can't see that happening.This is a Batman villain, someone who is created to be able to be a formidable match for the Dark Knight.If he was a DD villain I would expect him to win via plot device every time.

Not neccessarily. Nightwing put Freeze away in one move but decided to stand and gloat about it until Freeze recovered and counterattacked.

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik: Given that we are only 9 issues into the new 52 at this point, I do not have much to substantiate this position, but I would wager that Starfire's reflexes are not too shabby either, and Freeze shot her in the face while she had him in plain sight. Daredevil is very agile, yes, agility is a trademark of the character, and so I don't doubt that he can dodge most of the beams that Freeze sends his way. But can he dodge every single one of them? If even a single beam hits Matt, he is frozen for at least a while, and thus an easy target. In close combat, two things are possible, either Daredevil takes advantage of the massive skill gap and pulverizes Victor before he can land a hit, or Freeze touches Matt once and freezes him the way he did Nightwing, which either immobilizes him right there or at least slows him down to the point where he can get hit by another freeze beam. Also, the freeze bomb that he used against Batman appeared to be an omni-directional weapon, so no amount of agility is going to avoid that. And it froze Batman enough that he needed his hand-heating thing to escape. Daredevil has no such gadget on him.

I don't agree with the statement that Freeze is not durable at all. He is certainly not durable to the point where he will not be hurt by Daredevil's attacks, or potentially even one-shotted by a hard enough hit, but he took a kick from Xiao Loong, who was stronger than Red Hood. It knocked him back but he was none the worse for it. He also took two punches from Batman and didn't faint and fall. Nightwing downed him with a hit from the escrima stick, but in Red Hood and the Outlaws #9, his skin appeared to actually be ice (or at least covered with a layer of ice) while it was just skin in the Batman annual. Whether this was an addition he made to himself or just artistic flair, I have no clue, but if it's the former (it appeared to crack in some places, so it should be) then it might enhance his durability somewhat. The tactic of blinding Freeze with a baton to the goggles is not going to work. That glass dome appears to be too durable for that, it was unaffected by Red Hood's pistol whip and when Roy shot an arrow at it Freeze remarked that arrows would not do crap because he'd been hit by a speeding batmobile. If the dome is durable enough that a speeding batmobile will not break it upon impact, the billy clubs should not have any more luck with it either.

  • I would wager that Starfire has super speed but that does not translate to super human reflexes. In fact, her time in RHatO would lead me to believe her reflexes are very unimpressive.
  • DD likely could not dodge every single beam fired at him for an extended period but I do not think he needs to.
  • I do not think Batman needed his heating devices to break him out. Nightwing was no less frozen than Batman and he broke out with little effort. It is ice after all. The heating devices just made it more convenient for him and it only took moments. Heating the tip of an ice cube does not cause the entire cube to explode. That was all Batman's strength.
  • So you are saying there is a massive inconsistency with Freeze's durability then? Because every time he took a hit in the annual, he folded like a lawn chair.
  • You might be right about the dome So I will give you that however, getting hit in the dome did not protect Freeze at all from Batman's fists. I question its ability to tank a hit from a speeding batmobile or even his ability to take such a hit for that matter. Seems like his own ego stroking hyperbole to me considering his current durability. Either that or he has opted for a much less durable armor for some unexplained reason.
#45 Posted by Recoil1985 (521 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Freeze will need multiple hits to be beaten, DD only needs to be hit once. Since DD can deliver multiple hits and Freeze is equally likely to get just one tag on DD, i believe this truly could go either way.

For the most part I agree, but on the flip-side, we did see Grayson bring Freeze to his knees with just one well placed it.

#46 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh yeah, Freeze can be brought down with one hit no doubt. But Nightwing knows Freeze's style, weakpoints, and Versatility. DD would generally just know that he's cold, and probably using ice based weaponry.

#47 Posted by batfan1939 (362 posts) - - Show Bio

they didn't nerf Freeze did they? If he's anywhere near pre-N52, this is a tough figt for Daredevil, especially with Freeze's experience with the Bat-family. Fewer weapons, no intel on Freeze's psychology/fighting style (though "stand and shoot" may be Freeze's undoing), and less durability all lean in Freeze's favor. His tendency to "spam" does not. And heaven forbid DD under-estimate Freeze! He knows Freeze has his gun, but does he know of his superhuman attributes? All in all, DD would win, but only 6 or 7 out of 10.

#48 Posted by Nefarious (17625 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil wins.

#49 Posted by Erik (29926 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Oh yeah, Freeze can be brought down with one hit no doubt. But Nightwing knows Freeze's style, weakpoints, and Versatility. DD would generally just know that he's cold, and probably using ice based weaponry.

What is there to know? Nightwing hit Freeze with an attack that would have brought any normal man low. It seems to me like knowing a weakness is unnecessary.

#50 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Erik said:

Not neccessarily. Nightwing put Freeze away in one move but decided to stand and gloat about it until Freeze recovered and counterattacked.

I'm only saying that against a character that can always win in one move,Daredevil wouldn't win ever time without a plot device.Daredevil is capable of beating Mr.Freeze in this scenario but this is one of those "could go either way" fights it only takes one slip up to become a block of ice.
Moderator