Mr. Fantastic vs. Plastic Man

Same exact powers so uh........hm.........

ERRRR one is like beyond smart the other just dumb.. no offense to anyone, but it like a strong smart kid and (special)smart kid"i wont use the r word " the smart kid will just use smarts and win...

MR. fantastic

Plastic Man is not retarded (and why are you afraid to use the word, it's not rude unless you make rude). Just because he's not a genius and likes to fool around doesn't make him an idiot. He may not be as smart as Mr. Fantastic but he's immortal and physically indestructible. Plastic Man can (and he's done it) reach into someone's brain and remove things from it. He could do this to Mr. Fantastic and even the playing field. Mr. Fantastic can win if he he still has his entire brain and can get time to think, but I doubt Plastic Man would give it to him. His elasticity is on a whole different league, anything Reed can do, he can do better, so he'll be able to outmaneuver him and keep him busy until he can get into his brain.
Post Edited:2007-04-16 13:20:50

it good to always be nice and so cocern for others, just a ma thing and what i was taught. Just because it a word does not mean it may be right to use or say.

so i trust you seen "where in the balyon towers sereis of jla" batman plan to screw plastic man up.....freeze him in a deep freeze and let the joker whack away on him....

THATS JUST BATMAN, now bats uses planning smart, and MR.Fantastic does crazy mad(hope i use term right) math forms in his head for heck of it.....He designs things to hold hulk, etc no need to go on(i hope) he could easly come up with a hrasser plan to distrupt his mocules or what not

as the saying here "if all powers use" Mr fantastic just outsmarts him in a fight

Sorry he comes off as a foul to me, one to joke whole another to just act that way all the time, i only feel "IMO" that the best way to describe why he acts like that ALL the time 97% of the issues???

These are very limted... you are asking or saying that MR. fanstic will not be able to plan or stop or doing anything agianst plastic man?????

as said batman plan worked.. and if bat can do it Mr.fantastic will improve it times 10.

Im not the writter for Mr. fantastic, so it may not be enough to ask me...but since i was..

i feel that he will have some lame unknow device that will give him a advatage or time needed to do what ever, those suits and comm links they have do some wicky things, and he design them...

Mr fanastic design what? the holding cell in civil war, so he may just teleport plastic man to cell, or hulk prof thing( agian i am going cross theory/universe but as you would say the plan would work) plastic man is not teleport proof

in the last bat/supman comic plastic is eletrcit almost to death(he is affected by black rock, the rock leaves the host plastic mand beside he is weak dying) for a immotral person why leave?????? even lex luthor states this..along with batman and superman..and others in that issue

As said if it me i assume that Mr. fantastic has a plan or idea, and plastic man does not.. p-man is a follower not a thinker in the current timeline, Mr fantastic has always been a leader, hes a memeber of the illlumtnii for a reason...

while pman just does what ever...

heck reed my use a fear ray or something ie comm link and and hit pman....batman tactic sure did put the fear in a immortal guy, if immortal why so much fear???

How does Mr. Fantastic get away from Plastic Man to plan or build anything? How does he stop Plastic Man from taking pieces of his brain? How does he destroy a guy who can stay alive after being melted down, turned into stone, frozen solid and shattered or even being separated at a molecular level? How does stop Plastic Man from stretching him to his limit? (He has a limit and this tactic has worked against him.) How does he stop Plastic Man from engulfing him and suffocating him?

i think they both suck, that's my opinion.

Really doesn't have anything to do with the fight.

true, but if i had to guess, i would say Reed Richards. Because of his high intelligance.

Buckshot says:

"How does Mr. Fantastic get away from Plastic Man to plan or build anything? How does he stop Plastic Man from taking pieces of his brain? How does he destroy a guy who can stay alive after being melted down, turned into stone, frozen solid and shattered or even being separated at a molecular level? How does stop Plastic Man from stretching him to his limit? (He has a limit and this tactic has worked against him.) How does he stop Plastic Man from engulfing him and suffocating him?"

You haven't answered any of my questions.

All the question have been answered , but i will go over the answer for you.

Mr, fantastic is genuis plus smart, he build all type of things to do whatever.....he can build if he does not have it built already anything to whatever tp plastic man...." are you doubting that he cant"

if you are asking for how he will do in a fight... WHO KNOWS we are not the wriiters.. i said this a second time now, along with if it was me, i would safely say reed suit has items he can use, must less comm links that can hook up into any system (why did tiny need reed in civil war because he smarter than tony) and just teleport plastic man away or what not

i have gave countless examples of how plastic man is not immortal( or base of teh info) the last one be current right out of bat/sup man combo series.

if batman can freeze him soild whos to say mr fantastic cant and do it witha better freeze gadget.

the better question is for you buckshot.. do you feel that reed would not have a plan/weapons to trumpiuh?

some of the things you describe stopped him dead in his tracks, if this is taking in account reed wins and will take him away to anlayze him. maybe improve his powers

alos plastic man has his limits.

also the guys desgin crazy weapons, he could have a force field or what not around him....

plastic is just not thinking like that....

There's nothing anywhere saying that Mr. Fantastic gets time to plan against Plastic Man. There's no reason for him to have weapons ready, and if he doesn't when will he make them? How is he going to get away from Plastic Man to plan or build anything? You did not answer that question. I'm not saying he can't build something, but he doesn't have the chance. I said he could win if he had time to build, but he doesn't.

What do you mean "who knows?" You can look at the characters and make an educated guess on how they will do in battle. I've said some things Plastic Man can do and you haven't told me how Reed will respond. How does Reed stop Plastic Man from taking pieces of his brain? How (especially with no weapons) does he destroy a guy who can stay alive after being melted down, turned into stone, frozen solid and shattered or even being separated at a molecular level? How does stop Plastic Man from stretching him to his limit? (He has a limit and this tactic has worked against him.) How does he stop Plastic Man from engulfing him and suffocating him? You haven't addressed how Reed will deal with this, and brushing it off by saying "who knows" and leaving it all on the writers isn't good enough. There is sufficient history of Reed for you to come up with an idea of how he will behave in combat, and if he can't defend against any of the methods Plastic Man can use, then he isn't going to win.

Countless examples? You mentioned electricity and freezing, that's not countless and seeing that Plastic Man is still alive, they weren't good examples of him not being immortal. Plastic Man doesn't need to be immortal though, in the paragraph above I mentioned various ways for Plastic Man to kill Reed and you haven't shown ways for Reed to survive.

your right i did not answer the answer i clearly said he may have them on him, whos to say he wont? and further i feel that reed would have something on him. "so reed wont huh"

i clearly said that the ff4 have comm link on there suits and stuff, he may just order a teleport or whatnot"why will it not work"

I have told clearly once agin thing reed can do... you havent told me what plastic will do/repond

im glad you wish to force this in something we do not know( who in there right mind does not have a weapon of somewhat on them( ie keys, pens, mace, purse, base knuckles, etc) all can be used for defense/attack)

and you are saying a genuis would not have something???" sorry not buying that

i can can see your trying to turn this into a no weapon fight to prove a point, but thats just not how it works much less goes down, unless YOU as the writter make it that way.

This really the same ol tune bewteen us, but if not convince i will highlite every detail from my post here and just show how it was answer yet how you avoid the logic of what said....in the next response if really needed

Those strong points, he was hit by eletric and dying, how does a immotral DIE??? one of us is qutoeing wrong??

now he does not need to be immortal???? make up your mind eiether he is are not?

if not did it adds new elements to the game(ie if hes melted hes down, turned to stone dead"no immotral"

reed suit may be eletric proof going into a eletric wire or what not may not harm reed but harm plastic man(but let me guess YOU dont like that eiether( what do want, for them to be In there brithday suits and fight, in which reed will throw and kick sand in his eyes(whoops shades on pman huh?)

you havent even shown why they wont work???? will the methods i mention work, they are taking right mostly out of the fights where plastic man has gotten whooped, and your saying they wont....work

try saying how the above will not work before demanding , it really not that hard to understand?

as for what plastic man does, whoes say reed does not do it to him, minus the brain pull....

only way for you to say plastic man to win it seems, is reed to be a doorknob and not think or be prepare which is what he does, leader of teams prepare or have plans rdy? thats real life even, but i guess here they are dumb mindless guys who go in battle in their brithday suits

Mr. Fantastic all the way.

In terms of raw shape shifting, Plas does have the edge (he's up with J'onn in some respects) and is more used to fighting with just his powers than Reed. Reed almost always works as part of a team, Plas does solo. In a straight fight, Plas will almost always win.

I wasn't responding to when you say Reed has a weapon because the thread doesn't say he gets weapons. It doesn't say he gets time to prepare. If it were someone like Batman it would be different because he always carries weapons with him. Mr. Fantastic is not like Batman, he doesn't usually carry weapons unless he knows exactly who he's fighting and has invented some weapon to fight them. For this reason I'm taking Mr. Fantastic Vs Plastic Man as if they were to just meet and fight with what they normally have on them. You're saying that Mr. Fantastic has come to this battle prepared with tools built, or he will have time to got get weapons to take Plastic Man down when the thread said nothing about that. You're adding stuff when I'm taking it just as it is. Mr. Fantastic vs Plastic Man as they normally are. If Mr. Fantastic gets to prepare ahead of time and bring weapons to the fight, it's a whole different battle.

I never said he couldn't feel pain. The electricity was painful not killing him. How is Luthor supposed to know if Plastic Man is dying or not? It was his opinion after seeing Plastic Man screaming and writhing in pain and being too weak to do anything. If he's been separated on a molecular level but didn't die, how is electricity killing him? Simple, it's not.

The methods won't work because they all depend on technology that Mr. Fantastic does not carry around on him normally. And Mr. Fantastic can't do all the things that Plastic Man can, his powers don't work on that level.

I'll say Plastic Man because of one simple fact - the guy is immortal. Plus, he can shape shift better than Reed and bend and such. Plastic Man.

1

Plastic Man reed is a loser to be fair

im not adding you are just assuming, all im saying as i have been that reed would or may have it on him, as you said"he has shown this in the books, his suit may be a weapon

, why would a blackrock leave it host? and immotral, why would it leave if not dying or if the host was not in danger, the next is so clear they guy feels pain... much less is hurt by those things that you said he can withstand....( i say the issue does a fine job of establishing the fact that he can die.

im not saying he does, i saying he may, that why i said who knoes, i dont not beleive in one sided battele they just poof show up and fight raely happens unless someone masterminds it that way

im loooking at reed/mr fantastic as magvouer(THE GUY WHO MAKES STUFF OUT OF BUBBLE GUM AND WACTHES)(how ever you spell his name) i feel reed is smarter or make thing on a better level... hell his watch or comm link may be a bomb

or elertci shocker or freeze ray.. all im saying is that we do not both know, and the comics have show what i saying

i think your a little misunderstood about weapon, and much more reed richard...

neither did this trend say they didnt,have them; its liek saying i meet bob/bob meets me, im would use my keys if i had to, or a pen, or shoe strings what not( this is going far but i hope the point is taking)

i understand that some people feel that hey, when they fight they fight as are? who to say what these guys may have or not have.

I really stated simple things your saying he does not carry? a comm link, i though all ff4 had those? maybe a wacth or whatnot or the arm(which may be the comm link)(who knows what hes done to his comm link or wht it can do)

im just stated things that will come up in this fight, you do not have to agree with them or like, but give them there logic and merit, im not saying reed is cable or deathpool loaded out, im saying he may have a small bright super light on his comm, enough to get him out of a siuatuion, period"i mean a guy who build crap , will build crazy wacthes and stuff

once agian as you would say prove that he does not carry that tech around, prove that it may not be as i said...

i give credit where its do... i dont just say oh no, for the heck of it or say oh no,no,no thats not right.. or wont happen...thats why i said and will say again who knows

and to let someone just put their viewpoints out there and say follow that.... does add up so to speak

i think the weapon thing may have bother you some?

so we can do this...

brithday suits plastic may win if he does not do anything stupid or lame which he does always in the comics

i do not know who came 1st i will read and find out pman or reed? so who the knock off of who..lol

if you would like make this like brithday suit fight thats all you really have to say?

no need to go over some many variables that can be avoid or dicuss??

is 3 for 3 now lol

I think you have to allow a fight on even terms ie. purely on powers and equipment they always have. You could say Reed's watch is also a death ray, but then you could say Plas had stolen a Sinestro ring from the League's trophy room. Neither case is true to their basic abilities, unlike Batman having 'rangs or Cap having his shield which are integral to their characters.

Sync says:

"im not adding you are just assuming, all im saying as i have been that reed would or may have it on him, as you said"he has shown this in the books, his suit may be a weapon"

What am I assuming? It says Mr. Fantastic Vs Plastic Man, it doesn’t say Mr. Fantastic with prep time, or Mr. Fantastic with weapons does it?

Sync says:

", why would a blackrock leave it host? and immotral, why would it leave if not dying or if the host was not in danger, the next is so clear they guy feels pain... much less is hurt by those things that you said he can withstand....( i say the issue does a fine job of establishing the fact that he can die. "

I didn’t write the story but I’m going to say it left because its host was weak. Just because he’s immortal doesn’t mean it was the perfect host. It didn’t want a host that couldn’t handle the attack it was under. What do you mean that I “said he could withstand”? He did survive all the things I said, it’s not just my opinion. Does it really establish the fact that he can die? I mean, because, Plastic Man didn’t die even though Luthor tried to kill him so you can’t say it established anything along those lines.

Sync says:

"im not saying he does, i saying he may, that why i said who knoes, i dont not beleive in one sided battele they just poof show up and fight raely happens unless someone masterminds it that way"

What do you mean, “he may”? He either does or he doesn’t, and he doesn’t normally carry around that kind of technology. Yes, he has easy access to it since it’s at his lab, and he brings it when he knows he’s going to use it, but normally he doesn’t have it on him. And you’re saying that he’ll definitely win using technology that he might have?

Sync says:

"im loooking at reed/mr fantastic as magvouer(THE GUY WHO MAKES STUFF OUT OF BUBBLE GUM AND WACTHES)(how ever you spell his name) i feel reed is smarter or make thing on a better level... hell his watch or comm link may be a bombor elertci shocker or freeze ray.. all im saying is that we do not both know, and the comics have show what i saying"

Again, you’re saying he might do/have something, and now you don’t even know what it is. So yeah, Mr. Fantastic may have a bomb in his watch so based on that possibility, he wins the fight without question? And yeah, he’ll make this freeze ray while he’s being stretched beyond his physical limit, or being suffocated, or having his brain removed. You act like Plastic Man will just be standing there.

Sync says:

"i think your a little misunderstood about weapon, and much more reed richard...neither did this trend say they didnt,have them; its liek saying i meet bob/bob meets me, im would use my keys if i had to, or a pen, or shoe strings what not( this is going far but i hope the point is taking)i understand that some people feel that hey, when they fight they fight as are? who to say what these guys may have or not have.I really stated simple things your saying he does not carry? a comm link, i though all ff4 had those? maybe a wacth or whatnot or the arm(which may be the comm link)(who knows what hes done to his comm link or wht it can do) "

Read what I wrote above.

Sync says:

"im just stated things that will come up in this fight, you do not have to agree with them or like, but give them there logic and merit, im not saying reed is cable or deathpool loaded out, im saying he may have a small bright super light on his comm, enough to get him out of a siuatuion, period"i mean a guy who build crap , will build crazy wacthes and stuff"

Thing is, it would be more likely for Deadpool or Cable to come to a fight covered in weapons you don’t always see them with because more often than not, they’re strapped like walking gun shops.

Sync says:

"once agian as you would say prove that he does not carry that tech around, prove that it may not be as i said...i give credit where its do... i dont just say oh no, for the heck of it or say oh no,no,no thats not right.. or wont happen...thats why i said and will say again who knowsand to let someone just put their viewpoints out there and say follow that.... does add up so to speak"

It’s not on me to prove he doesn’t bring that level of tech since you can’t prove a negative. If you could show that he carries it, not only that, but that he does it so often that he’d have it in a totally random battle, then I’d believe it.

Sync says:

"i think the weapon thing may have bother you some?so we can do this...brithday suits plastic may win if he does not do anything stupid or lame which he does always in the comicsi do not know who came 1st i will read and find out pman or reed? so who the knock off of who..lolif you would like make this like brithday suit fight thats all you really have to say?no need to go over some many variables that can be avoid or dicuss??is 3 for 3 now lol"

Who the “knock off” is doesn’t matter, don’t know why you brought it up. I’m not worried about many variables; I just don’t think Mr. Fantastic has all his technology with him at all times, and Plastic Man could kill him in multiple ways that Mr. Fantastic can’t defend against.

Post Edited:2007-04-16 18:03:24

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"I think you have to allow a fight on even terms ie. purely on powers and equipment they always have. You *could* say Reed's watch is also a death ray, but then you *could* say Plas had stolen a Sinestro ring from the League's trophy room. Neither case is true to their basic abilities, unlike Batman having 'rangs or Cap having his shield which are integral to their characters. "

That's basically all I'm saying.

Plastic Man is more flexible, but Mr. Fantastic is so much smarter. He finds a way to win.

By being right?

AHHH WALL OF TEXT RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!

I figured out how you always win these arguments.

Just to clear up, Plastic man has been round since 1941 and thus the older character by a little over twenty years. Elongated man was created because the wriers didn't realise he was aquired by DC in 1957.

Buckshot says:

"That's basically all I'm saying. "

I have super-conciseness. I was agreeing with you.

Fourpower says:

"AHHH WALL OF TEXT RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!"

it his true power BEWARE!!!!!!

1st of all the fight did not say they did or did not have, whatever?

2nd i cant not say what plastic man may have or not have, in the comics he show as not as bright, while richards is show being one of the smartest.

3rd, where did i say prep time, that is a title you asssume and put in the trend not i? nor did i say plan?

4th, you also ask me why, i told you, now you disagree, why ask me if you are going to disclaim what i say, when you ask me? if you ask someone for their thoughts/opnion; then respect what they say or dont ask?

5th, with the blackrock thing it seem you agree with me, as i always say it up to writters, our saying are just guessing and theories and best. But if the book says he was dying he was not questioning that, you can say who's luthor to may that call(but than "imo" that bad taste, hes clever/smart and deadly, and CAN make the call)

6th, plastic did not die because batman steeped in. luthor did not try , he was, he was sitting just waiting and watching,till "batman stepped in"..this is also in the book and all can see/read it

7th, what heck? you act like mr. fantastic cant do some of the things plastic man can, yes pman can strecth further, but reed could do all you have said to him so far minus the drain remover

8th, simple really, does reed richard carry a com link? and if you would like i can start looking though the books to support that, and whatever( i dont read ff4 as much as others, but i follow them still closely)

9th not on me to prove he doesn’t bring that level of tech since you can’t prove a negative. If you could show that he carries it, not only that, but that he does it so often that he’d have it in a totally random battle, then I’d believe it.(COUGH COUGH, hmmm sound like the old errr i cant so i make up the revesre statement)

your the one saying no, to it so prove it, period

in honestly if you read the ff4 books alot you would see it

what the heck, in a random battle, what are you saying that he will poop up with no equipment com gear?????

most sci fi that have com gear will try to use it"if they random appear anywhere" but as i have said he does have a comm link?

but if you do not want to belive that fine....

also i clearly said if you want them to fight in their brithday suits, that way there is no question and you can go from there....birthday suits(no weapons just them as they are, came into teh world)

If the fight only said it was them, why would you assume that means that Mr. Fantastic gets his toys? I said you were giving him prep because to have those weapons he would normally have to know he would need them and only have them because he had prepared ahead of time. If he doesn’t have prep, then he wouldn’t have all the bombs, freeze rays and electric guns you say he’ll have.

I don’t know what “4th” is referring to.

We’re obviously not agreeing, if we were, this wouldn’t still be going on. The book did not say he was dying, Luthor said he was dying. Just because Luthor is in the book does not mean that his word is truth. Is Luthor omniscient? If Luthor was omniscient then I would believe what he said, but he’s not. He’s a human and he’s saying that Plastic Man is dying because he sees him in ridiculous amounts of pain and he’s too weak to do anything. And since Plastic Man has survived much worse, there’s no reason to believe that electricity was actually going to kill him. Since he did not die (not just that in and of itself, but that plus the fact that he’s survived so much worse on multiple occasions) you can’t say that scene proves that he can die. You’re basically saying that a scene that shows a guy not dying proves he can die just because an unreliable and fallible third party said he was. Does that really make sense?

Mr. Fantastic can’t do all the things Plastic Man can. For starters, Reed can’t stretch as far. I know you said that but you don’t seem to recognize that that alone can give the win to Plastic Man since after that amount of stretching Reed would be incapacitated and totally open to anything Plastic Man did. Reed can’t suffocate Plastic Man. (For 2 reasons, Plas doesn’t breathe, and Reed can’ totally engulf Plas without leaving a way for him to squeeze out. Plastic man can do both of these things.) Reed can’t take out Plastic Man’s brain. That’s 3 simple ways Plastic Man can win and all he has to do is get his hands on Mr. Fantastic to do any of them. Are you telling me he can’t grab Mr. Fantastic? And what else did I say Plastic Man can do? The things I’ve listed here are things Mr. Fantastic can’t do. I don’t know if he carries a communication device at all times, but if he does, so what? Is he going to build a bomb out of it while he’s suffocating, being stretched and having his brain removed?

I’m not trying to reverse it, it’s just that you can’t prove an absolute negative statement since you don’t have absolute knowledge. But let’s just ignore that. If you’re so sure of your position, why can’t you just show it? I can think of plenty of times when Reed’s been in trouble and didn’t have a weapon. Have you ever seen him in a fight and then watch him pull some crazy tech from behind his back (when he’s not prepared for the fight)? Most recent thing I can think of: I didn’t see him whip out an ice ray when Spider-Man punched him in the face in CW7, or pull out an electric gun when Task Master shot him. I can pull out random images of Mr. Fantastic and 9/10 he won’t have a weapon or some advanced tech (not counting prep) even when having something like that would save him.

Here, let’s do it.

No weapon when fighting a fire monster:

No weapon again:

If I had weapons on me all the time, I’d whip something out to fight Onslaught.

He’s got a weapon now but guess what, he had prep time:

No weapon this time:

Or here:

http://pics.livejournal.com/wasabi/pic/00009dzr

He didn’t need a weapon for this one:

This was just a quick search over the internet but it supports me. He doesn’t have weapons that he can just whip out unless he has prep. Of course, since I don’t know every issue and every appearance of Reed, I can’t say that he’s NEVER had a weapon without having had prep, because like I said, you can’t prove a negative so I can’t be faulted for that. That’s why I’m saying you need to prove that he’s done it. If you can’t show that he’s had weapons without having prep then you shouldn’t use “He can use a weapon or technology to win” as a reason. I’ve shown you that he doesn’t normally carry weapons, now show me I’m wrong or stop using it as the reason he’ll win.

Post Edited:2007-04-17 13:18:17

Can Mr. Fantastic do this?

BTW, Luthor had prepared to fight Plas and just because he thought he could kill him, doesn't mean he could. Luthor doesn't know about the events of the Obsidian age.

on luthor he said he was dying, either you agree with that on you dont, you can agure/say whatever point you want but the fact is it stated.

im glad YOU dont like the idea of WHAT the wriiter said/DC?luthor..but it is what it is, take that up with them, but dont go chaging what is said in the books, whats is your point, now your saying hes dying because of pain? or at least trying to explain (in your words) so now pman dying of pain, dying is dying ..though pain or whatever.

you should be more careful with the pics, is that namor, who is a badA$$ (in his on right), and fellow memeber of the illumintti(if thats spelled right) did reed just screw namor up in that pic(looks likes a win) did namor of all people say he cant break reed???

which is weird because things screws reed up, in a latter pic. namor is stronger than thing?

if that easy why did namor not do that,(is thing smarter than namor?)its thing he does not want to harm , and "imo" they are famliy its like you slapping to dog crap out of your mother?

is that YOUR so called ICEMAN (it looks like he did bring a weapon) and ice is a good weapon to bring( you defended him ?) so it really looks like you misunderstand weapons?( sorry for referring to iceman as a weapon) but it looks like reed knew who trust/use(hes smart) yes but no made weapon so to speak

takes ball to take on the big shots, that like pman taking on superman, he would moan and complian(but a family memeber was invole)

also it seems as people said earlier he part of a team/family(1st pic , goes to help others,3rd pic rushes to help son)no point here just putting out there

buck your pics do make points, im not sure what they are making?

even in the 1st one, it shows how smart reed is, the villian though he had him, yet his mind won

in all these pic it seem they underestiamted him...and he prevailed

depending on the event/effect it takes a while to suffocate( i do beleive he can make what ever in a small time before it gets him

if he can die of pain,(which it seems your saying got him now) or it hurts him to a level like it did in the book,

reed can hurt him, i already said that pman can strech further and that the brain(i spelled drain earlier) remove would work.. so it only one and thats it.

just because he can strecth better does not mean he may, be more creative(but both due to writters come up with things) even in the namor pick he says "lack of imgantion and doe snot think" can can see reed usinh limit strecth ablility even better due to this statement and that he a genius, who creates(creative mind)

whats pman a door to door salesman

just for thought buck what is the most dangerous weapon know right now (HUMMAN MIND) and what is reed strongest strength

misunderstanding weapons and things in bad mojo

buck i am also reviewing the internet to... but i tend to review lots of infomation...

one of the 1st thing i did was wiki..

and under reed richards..please look at it?what is your take on it?

Equipment and Technology..under this title it states what i have said...

"there are some items that Reed Richards carries with him at all times."

this is just small, i have not even started real lookinh, i have a list of sites if needed that go in depth,(i have never been to these sites or agreed to now, but read the books)

In all this, you assume Plas is an idiot. Granted, he's no Reed Richards, but he did figure out how to pull the League together in 'divided we fall' (requiring some psych-analysis of Batman) and figured how to remain invisible to the bee drones in a JLA story.

Yes, Luthor said he was dying but is Luthor a Plastic Man expert? No. Is he always right? No. Just because he thinks someone is dying does that mean they are? No. You’re putting too much weight in what Luthor said. How did you get the idea that I said Plastic Man was dying of pain? How did you warp my words into that? I said he sees Plastic Man in pain so he thinks he is dying. That’s all. I really don’t know how this is confusing to you.

What does who he’s fighting have to do with the fact that he didn’t take out a weapon to fight? You get easily distracted by things that don’t matter. The point is, in NONE of those images did Reed use a weapon EXCEPT when he had prep. So your idea that Mr. Fantastic will have weapons ready at a moments notice is unfounded.

So now you’re saying that in the Plastic Man vs Mr. Fantastic fight, Mr. Fantastic will get to use Iceman? Is that what you’re saying?

I really can’t believe you don’t get the point of the pictures. You kept saying Mr. Fantastic would have a weapon, but he never does in any of the pictures I’ve shown. And since the only way he can beat Plastic Man is with technology, if he doesn’t have them, he won’t win.

So, out of a communicator he can make WHAT EVER (your words) while he’s being suffocated, stretched AND having his brain removed. That’s amazing.

He was in pain, doesn’t mean he was dying of it. And how does that mean Reed can hurt him? I’ve already shown that he won’t be carrying around an electricity gun so how is he going to hurt him like that?

Only one? Let me count: Brain removal (1), Suffocation (2), Stretching beyond Reeds’ limits (3). And you haven’t told me how he would survive any of that.

Basically it comes down to this: Reed doesn’t have weaponry so he has to engage Plas in combat, and in physical combat, Reed is incapable of killing Plastic Man, but Plastic Man can kill him at least 3 ways.

Post Edited:2007-04-17 14:43:57
Post Edited:2007-04-17 14:44:26

the point is stated prove he does not carry things on him, i have show that??? with just alone,

i am looking and researching more..

2nd point is that i just did a small search and , at with wiki at that and it was right there?

why all the discussion(why would i lie?) and if a search was done as it had been inform to me how did this get miss?(but it happens)

YOu are kidding me right? a genuis who has access to a computer, which he has design?

also i stated that their suits where special, to and had special things about them.

agian if the books where read,than i would not have to go though this, much less i feel that if you had read all my statements you would understand the importance of this?

I was told to show that he carriers things on him( i said comm link, i said watch) minus the watch

i so far right, now im really just looking for models of ff4 that show the wrist com/watch..

it says "some" items not being dumb but define "some"

of course he has his suit on at all time...but i offer to for them to fight in there brithday suits

and your giving reed richards a flare...thats bad in my book, along with a computer, even worst, minus the things the suits can do

it not my goal to do the endless waltz here so to speak.... i just kindly stating what i have read in the books, and now slowly proving

again weapons seem to me misunderstood..sigh

If you read the full thing from wikipedia, it says he has a flare and a computer in his costume. There is no mention of any offensive technology, just sensors and tracking equipment.

Rewrite that so I can understand you. I'll be back in a little. I've got an exam.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"In all this, you assume Plas is an idiot. Granted, he's no Reed Richards, but he did figure out how to pull the League together in 'divided we fall' (requiring some psych-analysis of Batman) and figured how to remain invisible to the bee drones in a JLA story."

can you say batman...

buck did you have a chance to see wiki yet?

waiting for your take and input? since it plays into what im saying?

last time i check reed can do the same cover plastic man up tactic?

streching beyond reed limits on comes into play if hes trying to strech reed...?

the brain is the only real way so far,

Did you read Cosmic Sentinel's post? A flare and a computer with sensors and tracking equipment. Neither of those will do jack to Plastic Man, especially not in the time it would take for him to kill Reed. So all this equipment and technology you've been holding up as proof that Reed will win, amounts to nothing.

So now that we see Reed can't kill Plastic Man, we look at how Plastic Man can kill Reed. The brain thing we agree on. It really shouldn't go past that since the battle is over, but whatever. Next is suffocation. First of all, even if Reed could engulf Plastic Man, it wouldn't do anything. He doesn't need to breathe so he wouldn't die. Look at the link in the middle of my pictures on the last page. Plastic Man could do that to Reed and knock him out. It wouldn't even happen like that though since Reed can't manipulate himself like Plastic Man can. Plastic Man can open holes in himself and seal them perfectly, providing no escape if he were to capture Reed. The best Mr. Fantastic could hope to do is fold himself over, but there would still be a hole and Plas could get out. This is why Plastic Man can trap Reed, but Reed can't do the same. The last method is stretching. Stretching in itself wouldn't kill Mr. Fantastic, but it would leave him completely worn out and helpless to anything Plas did. All these attacks can be done easily, quickly, and if Plastic Man wanted to, he could do all three at once.

I've provided ways for Plastic Man to win and you haven't shown how Mr. Fantastic could win (without technology, since he won't have it).

Plastic Man wins.

you once said people get side track form the point, you ask me to show you that he carried ANYTHING at ALL, i did, i stated form the begining you said no.......

this is just a small scan, and samll quick info, im still getting others

i just think its hard that someone of your status, who said they looked, missed that....

point once agian is that reed has acess to items, items he made, items he can change,(variable how fast comes in play) but his status as the smartest if not smartest human on marvel earth, gives him a breath.. he could easly use the computer,suit or flare in a nasty way....

im glad you still ingore what i have shown, even when you ask for proof, i show and you ,even more you (CRY BUT, or foul, or whatever)"So all this equipment and technology you've been holding up as proof that Reed will win, amounts to nothing"

You ask for WHAT tech he carries if he carries and i show......and than say he wont have it? how will he not have, it said that he has on at all time.

YOu doubt the smartest man on earth , with countless degrees in advance math,phycis,science could not do that? with his own invetions, he carries at all times.

his suit is made up of unstable mocules?? ill hate for him to use that, go read book about that..see power in that along"

all this tech, lol, funny, when your a genuis low tech is good, and high tech is better.

if the battle was revesre pman could hardly even think 2+2(5*5-0)/1 and much less think how to use any of the above to his adavantage

so please kid yourself that reed richard would not or could not use those small(just for beginners, because more are out there) items to his advantage and make whatever..

i will go even so far to say now you suffcaite him tactic does not work, reed may modifty his suit just like that to survive and go even worst to say that his suit due its unstable state may not let pman brain tactic work, or he uses it to surive

it weird that you dismiss his intell and say he cant, his intell is one of the things that make him a threat

he does math better than some computers, maybe faster, "and if ulimate marvel one he gets smarter by the day, and got a intell boost"

all you have done is disagree with what i have stated.. all you have done is said that "imo" reed smarts does not play into it

all you have done is just blown off marvel smartness man, who right now just has flare, computer,and unstable mocules suit, and said he cant win or make whatever out of it to win..

Now do you ant him to not have those things say so,

you said as they are , this is as he is

dont get mad cause hes a genius and will do those things to win, or could do...if he has them he has them, no need to go up the creek without a paddle

Sync says:

"Cosmic Sentinel says:

"In all this, you assume Plas is an idiot. Granted, he's no Reed Richards, but he did figure out how to pull the League together in 'divided we fall' (requiring some psych-analysis of Batman) and figured how to remain invisible to the bee drones in a JLA story."

can you say batman...

buck did you have a chance to see wiki yet?

waiting for your take and input? since it plays into what im saying?

last time i check reed can do the same cover plastic man up tactic?

streching beyond reed limits on comes into play if hes trying to strech reed...?

the brain is the only real way so far,

"

What?!? Batman didn't pull the JLA back together, it was all Plas. Batman brought Plas into the JLA for quite a number of reasons: 1.) He recognized the raw power that Plas possesses, until the Obsidian Age he didn't know that Plas was immortal, but probably had a pretty good guess that he was by observing the ways in which Plas always used his powers and was able to survive various attacks before that. 2.) While Plas acts like an idot, Batman clearly knew that he was not, in fact Plas himself even remarked that much like Batman uses fear to catch criminals off guard and play to their cowardice, Plas plays the fool and uses that to his advantage to catch villains off guard by making them think that he's a harmless baffoon and when he's got them thinking that that's when he lets loose with his true formidity and triumphs. 3.) Not, only is Plas smarter than he looks and acts, and Batman professed it, but Batman even recognized how good of a detective that Plas is and that with more training could become as good as Bats himself. Being the worlds greatest detective, Bats admires other heroes of similar deductive skill and those are the ones that he associates best with. However, even though Bats admires and enjoys a kind of special kinship with other detective heroes, not even Martian Manhunter with his far superior range of powers has ever gotten the praise from Batman that Plas recieved. Maybe Bats doesn't think that J'onn needs it, that's besides the point, but Bats saw something in Plas that most other heroes of the DCU never see and in a way Plas became almost like another sidekick to Batman, something that Elongated Man never became. Plas is the ultimate stretchable hero, he is more resourceful and cunning than many think that he is due to his ridiculousness, it's probably his greatest weakness, but also his greatest strength, because with it he wins over many allies and can fool many enemies into a false sense of security and by then it's too late because then he's already suffocated you or pulled out your brain. 4.) The JLA needed an anchor to keep them going, someone who just loved being there and would be a cheerleader to rally the team no matter what they were up against. That's Plas, ever the optimist. After he was spit into atoms and spent the next millenia pulling every single mollicule of himself back together did he have a lapse and become normal for a while, but it his friend and mentor Batman who got him back to his usual self in no time. In other words, to pardon the pun, Plas bounced back despite the pain and torment of being disembodied for a millenia and having to pull himself back together mollicule by mollicule! That takes and extraordiay amount of mental fortitude for an "idiot". Reed Richards would go insane, something like that would shatter his genius. No, as much as I like Mr. Fantastic, I like Plas much better, and while Reed might be a genius, he still doesn't have the craftiness and sheer imagination that Plas has in a fight. Plus Plas was orginally a crook before he went straight and decided to fight crime, therefore he's got a bit of a dark side that Reed just doesn't have that he will use against opponentes, which is probably why Batman likes him so much.

its stated that pman did go insane, and it took help from his friends"jla" to get him back to normal. did you just call him a cheerleader...lol(oh how i want to ..lol)

uh i understand you point about will and stuff, both fighters have it. both been driven crazy.

like Plas much better, and while Reed might be a genius, he still doesn't have the craftiness and sheer imagination that Plas has in a fight

it takes both of what you said to make anything even if your a genuis or not, if you do not have those, you wont be making much, and reed makes many things, some at the same time while he doing other things, but i think he matches in a fight

There are different kinds of intelligence and people apply it in different ways. I doubt Captain America, Wolverine, Deadpool, Shang Chi, Wildcat, Green Arrow or Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) could work out mathamatical formulae whilst fighting if at all. They are, however, some (that come to mind) of the deadliest fighters in comics. Yeah, Reed is a genius inventor, but its a little hard to apply when some one is suffocating you with their duodenum.

You never actually showed me that he carried any tech on him until like two posts ago when you found wikipedia. Before that you were just saying that he might have this or that or that he could make anything out of even the smallest bit of equipment in the middle of a fight with no problem. You say I ignore intelligence, but you go too far the other way. Just because Reed is smart doesn’t mean he’s going to be able to build a freeze gun out of an earpiece while he’s being attacked and before he runs out of air. Somehow you don’t see a problem with that though. How about you show me a time where he does something like this, where he creates a weapon from nothing while he’s being stretched beyond his limits or while he’s running out of air, or both at once. Show me him doing that. If I said “no” it was because you were basically saying Reed could build anything out of like the smallest bit of machinery with no proof at all. And then you finally got something (not even from comics by the way, but whatever) but it really wasn’t enough. A flare and a computer used for scanning and tracking were all he had and like I’ve been saying, he can’t do anything with that could hurt Plastic Man before Plastic Man can kill him, and saying “he can build what ever he needs to” isn’t enough. Some examples or some evidence from comics that supported your opinion would be helpful to your case but you don’t have any of that. “he could easly use the computer,suit or flare in a nasty way....” Like what?

Sync says:

"You ask for WHAT tech he carries if he carries and i show......and than say he wont have it? how will he not have, it said that he has on at all time.YOu doubt the smartest man on earth , with countless degrees in advance math,phycis,science could not do that? with his own invetions, he carries at all times.his suit is made up of unstable mocules?? ill hate for him to use that, go read book about that..see power in that along""

Did you look at the technology that you’re saying he’ll have on him all the time? A flare and observational equipment. I’m not saying he can’t build anything with that, but he can’t do it in the time necessary and while under constant attacks that he can’t escape from. Plastic Man is not just going to sit there and let him build. I don’t think you know what “unstable molecules” are in this situation. It’s not some kind of dangerous weapon, it’s just how pretty much all costumes in Marvel are made so they can use their powers without losing their clothes. Kitty’s costume is made of “unstable molecules” so she can phase, but she can’t turn her clothes into a weapon.

Sync says:

"all this tech, lol, funny, when your a genuis low tech is good, and high tech is better.if the battle was revesre pman could hardly even think 2+2(5*5-0)/1 and much less think how to use any of the above to his adavantageso please kid yourself that reed richard would not or could not use those small(just for beginners, because more are out there) items to his advantage and make whatever..i will go even so far to say now you suffcaite him tactic does not work, reed may modifty his suit just like that to survive and go even worst to say that his suit due its unstable state may not let pman brain tactic work, or he uses it to suriveit weird that you dismiss his intell and say he cant, his intell is one of the things that make him a threathe does math better than some computers, maybe faster, "and if ulimate marvel one he gets smarter by the day, and got a intell boost"

I’ve addressed all of this. The tech he has is insufficient and he doesn’t even have the time to use it. And again you’re saying he can whip up plot devices from scratch. When he actually comes up with plot devices in comics, it’s not on the spot, it’s after he goes back to his lab and creates something. He will not be able to do it in the middle of battle while he’s being killed. Like I tried to show you in the pictures, he goes into battle all the time and I’ve never seen him whip out a weapon. If his suit could just be turned into a weapon in the middle of combat, that’s something that would be documented. I’m not going to say he’s never done it (can’t prove a negative) but if he’s actually done it, it’s so rare that it really isn’t a viable tactic for this fight. You’re basically saying he’ll do something he’s (as far as I know) never done before. And it’s not like he’s never had the chance or the reason. He’s been in positions where turning his clothes into weapons would have helped and he hasn’t done it, so there’s no reason to believe he’d do it now.

Sync says:

"all you have done is disagree with what i have stated.. all you have done is said that "imo" reed smarts does not play into itall you have done is just blown off marvel smartness man, who right now just has flare, computer,and unstable mocules suit, and said he cant win or make whatever out of it to win..Now do you ant him to not have those things say so,you said as they are , this is as he isdont get mad cause hes a genius and will do those things to win, or could do...if he has them he has them, no need to go up the creek without a paddle"

I’ve disagreed with you because you haven’t actually proven any of your points. You haven’t proven that he’ll be able to use his limited amount of technology in any way that would help him win and you haven’t proven that Reed can avoid or survive any of the ways that I’ve shown that Plastic Man can win. I’m not blowing off his intelligence; he just doesn’t have the opportunity to use that skill to its best in this situation. And if anything, you're the one that's blowing off someones skills and abilities by ignoring what Plastic Man can do and the fact that he is smart, just in a different way, like Paul and Cosmic Sentinel have mentioned.

Dang. Every battle turns into Sync vs. Buckshot. You two got a rivalry or something...

1

your kidding me right..your funny,

i find it strange that i say that he did, carry it and YOU SAID HE DID NOT??

i find it strange that i told you so, and you still said no(so much for word) i show you and you still complain tsk tsk tsk

screw wiki i read the ff4 books if you did than you would have know this, just like the person who wrote it on wiki, also those where just some of the things, (but you can only show them how to fish not make em right)

are you now saying all marvel costume are like that?? lol, we can both do this all day, i better not to..but..

where is it stated that kitty costume is made out of it, did reed make it.. i FIND IT funny that all of a sudden you apply at your choosing what you want to apply.. but please show where it stated that all marvel costume are like that?

unstable modcules not dangerous(okay if you say so, not buying that)

your missing the point, the point is that he does not have to whip out a weapon, just because he decides not to use it does not mean he does not have, and i have show that he has it,they named him mr fanastic for a reason,

who to say what he can build, while fighting, these are guesses that you are saying, while it show that the guy can whip up stuff like that

just because as always writters have not use that yet or not done or you have not seen it, is not a reason to dismiss

"we never know what the wriiters could be working or doing"

"this is applying to the suit"

so you believe that he would notbe able to do these things?are you saying that he would not?"not to be focreful but it either yes or no"

this confuses me i said that he would, just like i said he would have things that he could use.. i got these from the books i read, i understand there are lots of books, and you may have miss them, how is that i can get the info (FROM BOOKS READ)and show (ON SIMPLE SEARCH)yet you have not and still go agianst(it would be long but putting in the time to read them works)

what do you mean proving that he would not be able to use the limit tech to make anything???

1st it was he did not have

than it was he cant use them cause he does not have

now he has and cant do or build?

last time i check hes reed richards, that what he does build,alomst more than strecthing which is all pman does, besides be a cheerleader of hope and joy.

you support he the smartest in marvel but deny he cant even build a quick device to save his life?? with that genius level iq of his...just call him dumb , just come out and say it, CANT PROVE NOTHING IF YOU DONT WANT TO BELIEVE IT?

i proved he carry tech(and you still say prove it?)

the guys a genuis, get over it, people do all crap things when their life on the line, its all of nothign thinking, and your saying reed mind wont go in overtime? that he wont be able to build?

if a lower iq man tried he would fail, but an iq287 plus, with all those degrees, cant do with (I DONT BUY THAT EITHER)

even magqyuer made things in spit crazy seconds on the fly out of everday things, and reed is far smarter than him

he does not have the oppuntity to use it???? look add your take on this fight all you want, say he cant all you want,

now define oppuntity and do some rethinking, in a real life fight all thats needed is split second chance to turn the tide

in real life its all about the setup, setting your rival up, and landed that sweet blow(KNOWn form exp, been on both ends)

for the more smart types chess would be the exmaple..

where im going is that reed is smarter and would easly setup pman, much less create the chance for him to do it..why

he has the genuis level mind.. he shown this in the books

no one has ingore pman, its just that he not going to make it agianst MR.FANASTIC

You were saying he would have things like a “freeze gadget” or electric weapon, or “crazy weapons” or force field. I was saying he didn’t have this kind of technology. He doesn’t carry this stuff around so he wouldn’t have it for the fight. The ONLY thing you’ve shown him to have is a flare and a computer that scans and tracks. That is all he has. I’ve shown you that he never uses this technology to fight another person. You can’t show me one instance where he rigs up his costume and a flare to fight. So the only technology he has, isn’t used for battle. So Mr. Fantastic would effectively have no technology or weapons in this fight, and without such things, he would lose.

Know what things? You’re saying the flare and the computer are just some of the things, then what are the other ones? What other technology does he carry 24/7? Show me, because so far you haven’t been able to. (And I think you just mixed two idioms.)

I’m not saying all costumes are like that, but many are, especially in the case of people with powers that alter the physical form (like Giant/Ant Man). I don’t know exactly when in the history of the X-Men it was said, but yes, most of them (people like Iceman, Colossus, Kitty etc) wear costumes made of unstable molecules so they don’t hamper the use of their powers. You like wikipedia so much, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstable_molecules I’m not choosing anything, that’s what it is. I’m not making it up. Pleas read about what you’re telling me I’m wrong about. (And I know what is says at the bottom, that the uniforms can be dangerous because when “unlocked” they destroy all the matter in the area. But there’s several reasons why Reed won’t/can’t use that as a weapon. He needs machines like the ones used to make the suits to “unlock” them. He can’t alter its molecular on his own. Also, if he destroyed all the matter in the area, he would die.)

You have not shown that he has any weapons (outside of the flare and costume that can’t be used anyway) on his person. All you have to do is show that he has more weapons and that he carries them on a regular basis, but you haven’t done this. On the other hand, I’ve shown him in fights where he didn’t have weapons to pull out at a moments notice.

I can’t believe you typed these two things in the same line:

Sync says:

"who to say what he can build, while fighting, "

Sync says:

"these are guesses that you are saying, while it show that the guy can whip up stuff like that"

If no one can say what he can build in battle, then if you say he can build something in battle (without any evidence), then aren’t you guessing? And no, it hasn’t been shown that he “can whip up stuff like that” (like what?) in the heat of battle and without any kind of prep.

Sync says:

"so you believe that he would notbe able to do these things?are you saying that he would not?"not to be focreful but it either yes or no""

If by “these things” you mean “build a weapon capable of beating Plastic Man in the middle of a fight with no machines at his disposal or time to build”, then no, he can’t do “these things.”

Sync says:

"this confuses me i said that he would, just like i said he would have things that he could use.. i got these from the books i read, i understand there are lots of books, and you may have miss them, how is that i can get the info (FROM BOOKS READ)and show (ON SIMPLE SEARCH)yet you have not and still go agianst(it would be long but putting in the time to read them works) ""

What are trying to say here?

Sync says:

"what do you mean proving that he would not be able to use the limit tech to make anything??? ""

I mean, he can’t build anything out of his suit and a flare because (1) he doesn’t have the tools and (2) he doesn’t have the time since he’s in the middle of a battle.

Sync says:

"1st it was he did not have than it was he cant use them cause he does not have now he has and cant do or build? ""

When I was first saying “he didn’t have them” I was talking about all the machines you said he had. Then you brought up his suit, but like I’ve said, he can’t do anything with it, and especially not in the time allotted.

Sync says:

"last time i check hes reed richards, that what he does build, ""

Yes, he builds…AFTER studying his enemy, going to his lab, and taking his time to build. He does not build in the middle of combat. In this fight he has neither the tools nor the time to build a weapon capable of killing Plastic Man. Even if he had all the necessary equipment, could he assemble weapon before Plastic Man grabbed him, because once Plas grabs him, it’s over. With a hold on Reed, he can stretch him out (which also prevents him from moving/building anything), engulf/suffocate him or just take parts of his brain out.

Post Edited:2007-04-17 23:23:27