#1 Edited by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio

Characters      

Hawkeye                

 Judge Dredd
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 VERSUS

 
 
 Batman
 
 Bullseye
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

Location

 Begin at opposite ends.  Everything is on limits.  Sun is setting (aka it's dark but still some visibility). Unpopulated.
 

 
 

Rules 

  • Random encounter. 
  • Hawkeye has his regular arrows, a grappling arrow and his knife.
  • Judge Dredd has his standard issue pistol with regular rounds, stun rounds and one high ex round.
  • Batman has smoke pellets, grappling line, knock out darts, and batarangs.
  • Bullseye has shurikens, a  box of tooth picks, knives, a sai and Daredevil's baton. 
  • In character. 
  • Standard elimination rules apply.
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#2 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

Bale is gimped because he has Colin Farrell.

#3 Posted by Hondo_ (409 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawk eye solo's

#4 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Dredd's weaponry is way too much for that Batsuit to handle and Hawkeye has much better marksmanship feats than Bullseye.

#5 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

I would have to go with hawkeye... i mean.. team 1. Batman's armour can tank arrows, but they are consisted of plates with weak spots that have been punctured by knives before (talia in the end of TDKR) I dont think that Batman can close distance before Hawkeye learns where to aim.

Oh, and he shoots bullseye too, lol.

#6 Posted by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

Team 1. Dredd's weaponry is way too much for that Batsuit to handle and Hawkeye has much better marksmanship feats than Bullseye.

  • Indeed it is, but the environment / starting distance is worth noting.  It's darker than in the image provided, the starting distance is vast and the entire setting is on limits.  It's logical to think he'd take to the rooftops or any other method.  
  • Hawkeye certainly was good, but it's important to note that Bullseye was going up against a character with absurdly good reflexes and agility.  After all, he also was able to tag a fly out of the air (while incapacitated, too) and was getting bullseye after bullseye without even looking in the bar.
@CalebHara said:

I would have to go with hawkeye... i mean.. team 1. Batman's armour can tank arrows, but they are consisted of plates with weak spots that have been punctured by knives before (talia in the end of TDKR) I dont think that Batman can close distance before Hawkeye learns where to aim.

Oh, and he shoots bullseye too, lol.

Why not?  The environment has a huge array of cover.  There's no reason to believe he'd just approach via the main road when there's projectiles coming from the far distance. 
  
@Hondo_ said:

Hawk eye solo's


Possible.  For a majority? Unlikely. 
 
@Reignmaker said:
Bale is gimped because he has Colin Farrell.
Not seeing how, especially when you take into consideration his feats against a character clearly more agile and sporting better reflexes than anyone in this match.
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#7 Posted by Hondo_ (409 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n:Batman's the weak link because of the morals and the fact that he's not that fast (he can't sprint longs distances)

#8 Edited by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hondo_ said:

@k4tzm4n:Batman's the weak link because of the morals and the fact that he's not that fast (he can't sprint longs distances)

Why would he sprint at them instead of using his grapling gun and gliding like he has in the films?  Running down that main road would be suicide in this scenario, not to mention totally out of character for him. The starting distance looks like at least 7 blocks there... that's plenty of space to try an assortment of approaches other than down the main street. There's the rooftops, going inside the buildings, going between the neighborhood streets, going around, etc.
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#9 Posted by Hondo_ (409 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n:Hawkeye can shoot him as he's going up, Bruce stands a better chance in doors or in cover, best he stick to hand to hand combat or supporting bulls eye with his gadgets.

#10 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@Shawnbaby said:

Team 1. Dredd's weaponry is way too much for that Batsuit to handle and Hawkeye has much better marksmanship feats than Bullseye.

  • Indeed it is, but the environment / starting distance is worth noting. It's darker than in the image provided, the starting distance is vast and the entire setting is on limits. It's logical to think he'd take to the rooftops or any other method.
  • Hawkeye certainly was good, but it's important to note that Bullseye was going up against a character with absurdly good reflexes and agility. After all, he also was able to tag a fly out of the air (while incapacitated, too) and was getting bullseye after bullseye without even looking in the bar.

And Hawkeye scored a direct hit on a fast moving opponent at long range while he was facing a different direction.

#11 Posted by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hondo_ said:

@k4tzm4n:Hawkeye can shoot him as he's going up, Bruce stands a better chance in doors or in cover, best he stick to hand to hand combat or supporting bulls eye with his gadgets.

Sorry, but there's nothing to really justify saying Hawkeye tags Batman immediately. I said they start at opposite ends. That means the foreground and the background.  That's almost 7 blocks and visibility isn't grand. Clint tagging Bruce before he can simply make it to a rooftop doesn't seem likely to me... at all. 
 
 
General note, I'm not supporting team Batman/Bullseye -- I'm just pointing out why this battle (to me) is more interesting and deserves more elaboration.
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#12 Edited by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Shawnbaby said:

Team 1. Dredd's weaponry is way too much for that Batsuit to handle and Hawkeye has much better marksmanship feats than Bullseye.

  • Indeed it is, but the environment / starting distance is worth noting. It's darker than in the image provided, the starting distance is vast and the entire setting is on limits. It's logical to think he'd take to the rooftops or any other method.
  • Hawkeye certainly was good, but it's important to note that Bullseye was going up against a character with absurdly good reflexes and agility. After all, he also was able to tag a fly out of the air (while incapacitated, too) and was getting bullseye after bullseye without even looking in the bar.

And Hawkeye scored a direct hit on a fast moving opponent at long range while he was facing a different direction.

While indeed impressive, he even admitted they had predictable movements (the advice he gave Stark)... so how is this technically a feat significantly superior to tagging a fly out of the air with a needle while strapped to a hospital bed?  

I'm not saying Bullseye's better -- I'm saying Clint's accuracy isn't a factor that makes this so easily determined.
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#13 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: The scenario has cover yes, but the field is rather linear. No matter where Batman decides to move he only has one direction that he can travel. In the Avengers, Hawkeye normally sat in one spot where he could pick off incoming enemies. Batman moved, and he was very quick, but his most impressive movement feats were evading the gunfire of different gunmen, while he was in the dark and was able to utilize stealth. He takes alot of gunmen out because they are in enclosed areas, like buildings or offices. In an open daylight environment, and Hawkeye's tendencies to stay back and pick off his target, it is more than likely that he will get a few shots at Batman IMO.

#14 Posted by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@CalebHara said:

@k4tzm4n: The scenario has cover yes, but the field is rather linear. No matter where Batman decides to move he only has one direction that he can travel. In the Avengers, Hawkeye normally sat in one spot where he could pick off incoming enemies. Batman moved, and he was very quick, but his most impressive movement feats were evading the gunfire of different gunmen, while he was in the dark and was able to utilize stealth. He takes alot of gunmen out because they are in enclosed areas, like buildings or offices. In an open daylight environment, and Hawkeye's tendencies to stay back and pick off his target, it is more than likely that he will get a few shots at Batman IMO.

The road is linear, the environment isn't.  They aren't confined to that main road.  Quite literally everything in this image is on limits and they do indeed begin at opposite ends. He can go in the buildings. He can go on top of the buildings.  He can go around the buildings. There isn't a clear line of site unless Wayne decides to be incredibly foolish in this case. 
 
Also, this isn't an open daylight environment.  I stated int he OP that the conditions are darker than the image provided.
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#15 Posted by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to edit the OP and elaborate on their gear.

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#16 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: How dark? and do they have any prior info on each other?

#17 Edited by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm... Dredd goes after Bullseye. Batman gives him up because Bullseye's nuts. Bullseye goes down and Dredd stands down on account of Batman having already been absolved of Dent's murder.

So. Comes down to Bats vs Hawkeye. Bats uses flashbang to get away, gets into the buildings. Hawkeye begins a search of the buildings. Batman sets a trap, blows up Hawkeye with a non lethal explosive (think the Bat Bomb Robin threw in TDKR), Hawkeye's knocked down, but not out. Batman moves in to incapacitate. Hawkeye snaps out of it and gets back to his feet. From there, Hawkeye takes this in hand to hand. Batman's great, but he's weighed down by his armor. He's definitely more mobile than in Batman Begins, but not as mobile or as fast as Widow or Hawkeye. And Hawkeye nearly took out Widow with his bow and arrow at that range. Hawkeye uses an arrow as a close range weapon similar to a knife like he does later on in the Avengers fight, punctures Batman's armor in a soft spot, detonate an electrical arrow, Batman goes down.

So. Dead Bullseye. Withdrawn Judge. K.O.'d Batman.

Hawkeye takes this.

#18 Posted by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@CalebHara said:

@k4tzm4n: How dark? and do they have any prior info on each other?

The sun is setting -- fading on the horizon.  So, there's still a bit of light, but for the most part, it's darker than the day.  No, sir, it's a random encounter.  However, I imagine Dredd and Hawkeye won't hesitate taking shots at that range (granting Wayne knowledge his enemies have range) and Batman's plan of action would likely be to aim for stealth anyway.   
 
Hopefully that helps paint a clearer image of the fight.  I'm just playing devil's advocate for now because I think this match could generate a more extensive debate. 
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#19 Edited by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Clint is at least as likely to head to the rooftops as Batman is. It may not be broad daylight...but it is still only Dusk..which means Clint will still be able to track Bruce's movements.

Range factors in considerably as Bullseye would have to get much, much closer to Clint than vice versa.

Dredd's accuracy, while not on the level of Hawkeye or Bullseye, is also a considerable factor since Bruce is severely handicapped in terms of ranged attacks.

Weapon Versatility also factors heavily in Dredd and Hawkeye's favour as they are both equipped with multiple types of long range ammunition. The cover that is present can easily be negated by explosive rounds and arrows

EDIT: when originally posted I had not yet seen the edits made to the scenario

#20 Edited by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonSmith said:

Hm... Dredd goes after Bullseye. Batman gives him up because Bullseye's nuts. Bullseye goes down and Dredd stands down on account of Batman having already been absolved of Dent's murder.


This is a random encounter and both teams have the simple objective "defeat the other team." (just like characters always do in battles)  There's no reason Batman would try to stop Bullseye and there's no reason Dredd would grant Wayne a pass.
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#21 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Hm... Dredd goes after Bullseye. Batman gives him up because Bullseye's nuts. Bullseye goes down and Dredd stands down on account of Batman having already been absolved of Dent's murder.

This is a random encounter and both teams have the simple objective "defeat the other team." (just like characters always do in battles) There's no reason Batman would try to stop Bullseye and there's no reason Dredd would grant Wayne a pass.

I was going off the 'In character' stipulation. Seeing as how Bullseye is a sociopathic assassin, I thought it would stand to reason Batman would give up Bullseye to Dredd. "I don't have to save you.", etc.

Even if the objective to defeat the opposing team takes priority, it matters little. Hawkeye and Bats still split off after each other while Bullseye goes after the heavily armored officer for a challenge, and gets shot. Still plays out in the same way.

#22 Edited by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

I would say Clint is at least as likely to head to the rooftops as Batman is. It may not be broad daylight...but it is still only Dusk..which means Clint will still be able to track Bruce's movements.

Range factors in considerably as Bullseye would have to get much, much closer to Clint than vice versa.

Dredd's accuracy, while not on the level of Hawkeye or Bullseye, is also a considerable factor since Bruce is severely handicapped in terms of ranged attacks.

Weapon Versatility also factors heavily in Dredd and Hawkeye's favour as they are both equipped with multiple types of long range ammunition. The cover that is present can easily be negated by explosive rounds and arrows

Certainly fair points, but I'll add a few things just to keep this interesting: 
 
Wholeheartedly agreed that Clint is likely to take to a rooftop (after all, he has a grappling arrow and it provides a better view).  If Bruce goes to the rooftops as Clint does that'll certainly be a tricky spot for him.  The rooftops have cover, but it's by no means plentiful. The distance is still great and if Wayne plays it smart he can fade back into the ground. Clint won't necessarily have a clear shot anymore and now his position will potentially serve as a double-edged sword.  He can better spot Wayne as he presents himself in movement, but at the same rate, Bruce knows where Clint's sniper nest is.  One proper use of his dart and it could be lights out for Clint.  These are all big ifs, of course. 
 
For the sake of balance, I clearly wasn't going to give Dredd plentiful ammo (in terms of variety) or even incendiary rounds.  After all, what fun would this match be if he had that, or if Clint had an explosive arrow that could generate an explosion large enough to take down a helicarrier engine? I previously restricted their gear, but not to the point where I feel that they are by any means handicapped. After all, one clean tag from either of them can still serve as a game changer... but allowing their more powerful ammunition would surely be overkill and just not fun to speculate.  Well, unless you enjoy thinking about the team blatantly stomping them ;) 
 
Thanks for expanding your thoughts.
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#23 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: lmfao i know, it think its a great match. but in character, Hawkeye takes high ground. Dredd probably follows Hawkeye, Batman resorts to stealth and tries to close distance, and bullseye would try to get within throwing range. If Hawkeye sees that Batman is heavily armoured, he will probably resort to explosive arrows like he did for Loki, and in order to take out flying crafts. His explosive arrows have shown the ability to hurt Loki, and Destroy parts of the Heli carrier, they can do serious damage to Batman, if they don't kill him. Both dredd and hawkeye have a greater range than bullseye, so that seems like a no-brainer for me. like i said, team 1 takes this IMO.

#24 Posted by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonSmith said:

@k4tzm4n said:

Hm... Dredd goes after Bullseye. Batman gives him up because Bullseye's nuts. Bullseye goes down and Dredd stands down on account of Batman having already been absolved of Dent's murder.

This is a random encounter and both teams have the simple objective "defeat the other team." (just like characters always do in battles) There's no reason Batman would try to stop Bullseye and there's no reason Dredd would grant Wayne a pass.

I was going off the 'In character' stipulation. Seeing as how Bullseye is a sociopathic assassin, I thought it would stand to reason Batman would give up Bullseye to Dredd. "I don't have to save you.", etc.

Even if the objective to defeat the opposing team takes priority, it matters little. Hawkeye and Bats still split off after each other while Bullseye goes after the heavily armored officer for a challenge, and gets shot. Still plays out in the same way.

Heh, sure, but it's kind of an unwritten law that teammates -- no matter how much they loathe one another -- won't intentionally harm or cause their teammate to be defeated.  After all, as cheesy as it sounds, they're "in it to win it."
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#25 Edited by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@CalebHara said:

@k4tzm4n: lmfao i know, it think its a great match. but in character, Hawkeye takes high ground. Dredd probably follows Hawkeye, Batman resorts to stealth and tries to close distance, and bullseye would try to get within throwing range. If Hawkeye sees that Batman is heavily armoured, he will probably resort to explosive arrows like he did for Loki, and in order to take out flying crafts. His explosive arrows have shown the ability to hurt Loki, and Destroy parts of the Heli carrier, they can do serious damage to Batman, if they don't kill him. Both dredd and hawkeye have a greater range than bullseye, so that seems like a no-brainer for me. like i said, team 1 takes this IMO.

Fair enough! 
 
But, I don't think Dredd has the means to follow Hawkeye to high ground.  After all, Clint has a grappling arrow to reach rooftops while Dredd is just a regular dude.  I suppose he could reach a rooftop through the inside of a house, but I don't see that as a very common tactic for him. Additionally, Clint doesn't have his overpowered arrows. Here, he has his regular arrows, a grappling arrow and a knife.  I thought anything else would be overkill.
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#26 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@Shawnbaby said:

I would say Clint is at least as likely to head to the rooftops as Batman is. It may not be broad daylight...but it is still only Dusk..which means Clint will still be able to track Bruce's movements.

Range factors in considerably as Bullseye would have to get much, much closer to Clint than vice versa.

Dredd's accuracy, while not on the level of Hawkeye or Bullseye, is also a considerable factor since Bruce is severely handicapped in terms of ranged attacks.

Weapon Versatility also factors heavily in Dredd and Hawkeye's favour as they are both equipped with multiple types of long range ammunition. The cover that is present can easily be negated by explosive rounds and arrows

Certainly fair points, but I'll add a few things just to keep this interesting:

Wholeheartedly agreed that Clint is likely to take to a rooftop (after all, he has a grappling arrow and it provides a better view). If Bruce goes to the rooftops as Clint does that'll certainly be a tricky spot for him. The rooftops have cover, but it's by no means plentiful. The distance is still great and if Wayne plays it smart he can fade back into the ground. Clint won't necessarily have a clear shot anymore and now his position will potentially serve as a double-edged sword. He can better spot Wayne as he presents himself in movement, but at the same rate, Bruce knows where Clint's sniper nest is. One proper use of his dart and it could be lights out for Clint. These are all big ifs, of course. For the sake of balance, I clearly wasn't going to give Dredd plentiful ammo (in terms of variety) or even incendiary rounds. After all, what fun would this match be if he had that, or if Clint had an explosive arrow that could generate an explosion large enough to take down a helicarrier engine? I previously restricted their gear, but not to the point where I feel that they are by any means handicapped. After all, one clean tag from either of them can still serve as a game changer... but allowing their more powerful ammunition would surely be overkill and just not fun to speculate. Well, unless you enjoy thinking about the team blatantly stomping them ;) Thanks for expanding your thoughts.

Well, now that the matter of gear is cleared up....I will say it isn't quite as one sided as my original assessment. I think I'd still give the majority to Clint and Dredd...but not by as much of a factor. I still think the range factor is what wins this for team Hawkeye. In terms of accuracy I'd say that Hawk and Bulls are close-enough that it wouldn't make a difference...but Bulls just has to get so much closer for any of his shots to count...and I think that is going to be his Teams undoing.

#27 Posted by k4tzm4n (40789 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby: That's reasonable.
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#28 Posted by Cole_Mercer (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye/Dredd wins

#29 Posted by Charlie_Jade (523 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Baleman is the weakest here