Morals off. They will kill :) If your character doesn't work well with a teammate oh well. They will not work well together but will not kill each other either
No BFR, but you can teleport around the map, and no TP'ing characters heads off.
No shutting brains off but any other form of telepathy is accepted. For telekinesis only on your surroundings, not people.
Characters are Pre-52 and Earth 616 unless specified otherwise
No Time Travel, and no Time Manipulation that effects your opponent.
No character is allowed to use Reality Warping either.
Standard Gear.
No bringing in help from outside the map although duplicates are allowed
15 minutes off prep time in the map.
No bringing in anything outside the map just getting to know the team and making a strategy
Each Round will last for 2 weeks. You get an opening post, 8 arguing posts and a summary post.
Have respect for your opponent. I don't want anyone ripping each others head off. Its just friendly competition :)
The Kingpin is no slouch in h2h combat, and imo he could take Harley Quinn.
Despite his size, he has incredible combat speed and reflexes. Catching a nunchuck in mid-air.He has above peak human strength too, here he is shown locking arms with Peter evenly in strength.This shows Fisk's insane durability. Tanking full strikes from Red Skull. Then crushing him of course. lol
So all in all, I think Fisk would take Harleen easily. Since he has the speed to grab her and the force to crush her.
The Lizard
A determined Lizard is very deadly. Here he throws a large monster out of a window with ease.An incredibly impressive feat. The lizard has enough damage output to completely destroy a city block into rubble.The Lizard is shown smashing through a concrete wall. Imagine what he could do to bone...
So, I think that The Lizard has a large enough amount of damage output to take Nightcrawler out for good. He also has a healing factor so great that he can grow back missing limbs, so injuries sustained from Nightcrawler's sword will not be permanent.
I don't know if it should be considered reliable or not but I would also like to note that the Marvel Wiki say that The Lizard can go at speeds of 45mph.
So imo Curt > Kurt :P
Cassandra Cain
After giving it two or three kicks, Cassandra smashed through three inch quartz. (She also effortlessly took down those SWAT guards on the next panel.)Cassie does a perfect backflip-kick to her face, and sends her several meters. It even broke a couch in half!!Bullet timing.
So in the end, Cassandra can hang with Rand in all physical aspects and martial arts skill (she did beat Shiva after all). Chi punches won't be a problem with her either, since she has Shiva's ability to read peoples' movements. She will be able to tell when he will start with his chi, and since she dodges bullets, she will be able to dodge his fists. Plus, if she needs any help with Rand- I have those Xenomorphs, Hand Ninjas, and Fisk who will almost certainly have already killed Harley.
This will be a very good and close fight, sir. I'm looking forward to seeing your side of the debate.
I'm going to do my best to use Harley Quinn to her maximum potential and do users such as Jokergeist & Joygirl some justice. Often times Harley gets viewed as the sidekick to the Joker, many see her as a second rate clown gal pal who only offers comedic input and some oversized comical gags; however, she is actually one physically enhanced, incredibly intelligent, expert combatant. Harley is dangerously violent and after being given a special serum by Poison Ivy her physical stats were enhanced beyond that of peak Olympic athletes, gave her a minor healing factor, and granted her an immunity to a wide variety of toxins.
Harley is also incredibly acrobatic and has been shown to dance around foes such as Cassandra Cain, Killer Croc, and even Batman. Due to her costumed persona she uses a wide variety of comical weapons and gadgets such as an oversized mallet, lethal pop gun, and a zillion volt yo-yo, seriously.
All in all Harley is one ruthless foe, she'll kill you with a joke and then actually kill you with her mallet.
Standard Equipment
Since Harley has a wide variety of gadgets, gizmos, and equipment I think it'd be good to highlight what shes bringing to this battle.
Mallet - Harley uses a comically oversized Mallet that when coupled with her enhanced strength becomes a deadly tool that can knock out any foe that comes her way.
Pop Gun - Harley also uses a large "pop gun" that comes with a variety of different ammunition types. These ammo types include a normal & large bullet, a rubber bullet that can bounce off of several targets, and an explosive round.
Yo-Yo Taser - Harley has a yo-yo that is said to have 1 zillion volts. It was able to KO a foe known as Thorn in a matter of seconds.
Explosive Bubble Gum - A wad of chewing gum that explodes like a concentrated mass of C4.
Silly String Spray - A super strong silly string spray that quickly covers its targets and hardens to hold them in place, sort of like Spider Man's webbing but on a lesser scale.
Gallery
Above are various examples of all of her gadgets that I listed above: Explosive Bubblegum, Explosive Pop-Gun Round, Normal Pop-Gun Rounds, Silly String, Mallet, and Trillion Volt Taser.
Iron Fist
Iron Fist is my all time favorite Marvel Comics character and hopefully I can show why he reigns supreme in my books. Daniel Rand is the latest in a long line of warriors given the identity of the Immortal Iron Fist; master of K'un Lun. After slaying a dragon known as Shou-Lao the Undying he plunged his fists into the dragons heart and gained the power of the Iron Fist. Rand has been trained to become a "Living Weapon" and is one of the top martial artists in the Marvel Universe.
With the power of the Iron Fist he is able to augment his physical abilities via chi, a form of spiritual energy. While in his original introduction using his chi would weaken or tire him he has grown to become a master of control and can now amplify his skills to an unknown limit, but the result is devastating for his foes. His striking power is immense as he was able to 1-shot the S.H.I.E.L.D Helicarrier, he can increase his speed to both dodge automatic gunfire or catch it all before it hits him, and he has access to a wide variety of different Chi-Based attacks. Rand can also heal himself without having to focus on doing so, granting him a minor healing factor.
Gallery
The scans above show his "healing" abilities.
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The scans above are all 1 panel speed feats showing abilties to both dodge, attack multiple targets without them realizing, and catching/blocking bullets.
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The scans above are all striking power feats showing his ability to demolish targets such as super durable mech's and the S.H.I.E.L.D Helicarrier, bringing down a stone temple with a ground pound, breaking through walls, and tanking an electromagnetic train filled with nuclear explosives.
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The scans above are all various chi abilities and attacks showing his ability to use AOE attacks, create chi projectiles, make multi-story attacks, and even hypnotize his foes.
Rand also has many fantastic showings in battles that I can display if you'd like, a list of his opponents include: Black Panther, Captain America, Iron Man, 88 S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents, Dragons, Deadpool, Spiderman, Ragnarok, Hercules, Nitro, Sabertooth, Chaka, Davos, The X-Men ( Wolverine, Collosus, Nightcrawler, Storm ), and The Wrecking Crew.
Nightcrawler
I'll admit this from the get-go, Nightcrawler is the member of my team that I know the least about and finding scans for him proved generally impossible so I won't have much to show for him but I'll be trying to use his abilities to their max to make him useful throughout this fight.
Kurt Wagner is Nightcrawler, a mutant produced through a love affair of two different mutants. He was born with a demon-like appearance and was raised in a circus where he used his mutant abilities to put on magnificent and death defying acrobatic displays. Wagner's mutant power is his ability to move through a different dimension granting him "teleportation" that leaves behind the smell of brimstone and a 'BAMF" sound. His teleportation can be used both offensively and defensively, if he teleports another person rapidly then they begin to weaken and lose conciousness, he can also teleport around a foe in an unpredictable pattern to strike them multiple times without being tagged himself.
His teleportation can be used to also tele-dismember, a skill that is banned from this tournament and won't be used, but he can teleport objects such as armor or weapons off of someones person to disarm and disrobe them. It should also be noted that he is an expert H2H combatant who was trained by Wolverine and is also a master fencer and can use both his arms and his tail to swing weaponry. His tail is strong enough that he can lift and carry a full grown adult male. He is incredibly flexible, stealthy, and versatile in combat, making Nightcrawler a troublesome foe for any combatant.
Responding to your Opener
Before I explain why I think my team is going to win this battle I'll counter the points that your brought up in your opener, as it's not a good idea to left anything un-countered if you have a counter for it.
The Kingpin is no slouch in h2h combat, and imo could take Harley Quinn skill wise. So all in all, I think Fisk would take Harleen easily, and it would be over in seconds. Since he has the speed to grab her and the force to crush her.
Interesting opinion; however, I'll do what I can to try and change that for you and for the voters.
As I mentioned earlier, Harley has increased strength, speed, and immunity after taking a special serum given to her by Poison Ivy.
With these abilities and her gadgets she's able to go toe to toe with a wide variety of combatants, she's beaten Joker on two occasions, out performed Cassandra Cain, Tim Dark, and Nightwing all at the same time, toyed and defeated Catwoman, KO-ed Killer Croc, and showed the Batman that she's a force to be reckoned with, and I'll post those fights below.
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The above scans show her escaping from Cassandra Cain, Tim Drake, and Nightwing while also engaging in H2H combat with Cain which I find important considering she's one of your teams major players. If Cain is as fantastic as you say she is and Harley was able to deal with her AND Tim Drake then Harley is most definitely a force to be reckoned with.
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The above scans show her engaging with Batman in two different occasions, dodging his attacks, landing some impressive blows on him, and giving the Dark Knight a run for his money.
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The above scans show her withstanding blows from Killer Croc who isn't jobbing in this situation; however, Harley is able to throw bowling pins with enough force to pierce his thick hide and eventually KO him, though she does fall shortly after from exhaustion.
Gallery
The above scans are all 1 page examples of her strength, speed, and agility. She is rather nimble and can move throughout the environment or around her foes with complete ease, can dodge pointblank bullets, and has enough strength to break a mans hand or KO a man using her mallet, in this case that man is Batman.
Gallery
Lastly, the above scans show her knowledge of pressure points. When utilized in combat she can incapacitate foes with ease in H2H combat.
So with all of this in mind, her combat feats, her combat skills, and the wide variety of gadgets she has in her arsenal I think she can easily overpower Fisk. Sure, he's big and he's tough, he's got more speed than he gives off in his initial appearance but Harley can overcome that with an Explosive Pop-Gun round to the chest followed by the Trillion Volt Taser & then some pressure points to gain the KO.
So, I think that The Lizard has a large enough amount of damage output to take Nightcrawler out for good. He also has a healing factor so great that he can grow back missing limbs, so injuries sustained from Nightcrawler's sword will not be permanent. I don't know if it should be considered reliable or not but I would also like to note that the Marvel Wiki say that The Lizard can go at speeds of 45mph.
The Lizard is a strong foe indeed; however, he doesn't have the means to combat Nightcrawler's incredible versatility. How quick is his healing factor, because all it takes is a well placed sword blow from NC at the neck to sever his head and end it there. Also, while tele-dismemberment isn't allowed there weren't any rules placed on tele-dropping.
A ruthless and no morals NC would have no problem grabbing Lizard from behind, teleporting a mile or so into the sky, and then dropping him.
Gallery
In the above scans he knocks Colossus off of a ledge and then gets attacked by Rogue from behind. Nightcrawler reacts by TP'ing higher into the air and then dropping Rogue into the water below. Considering this was something that NC did with morals on I don't think he'd drop Lizard into a nice pool of water.
So in the end, Cassandra can hang with Rand in all physical aspects and martial arts skill (she did beat Shiva after all). Chi punches wont be a problem with her either, since she has Shiva's ability to read peoples movements. So she will be able to tell when he will start with his chi, and since she dodges bullets, shell be able to dodge his fists. Plus, if she needs any help with Rand I have those Xenomorphs, Hand Ninjas, and Fisk who will almost certainly have already killed Harley.
Cassandra may have the skill to hang with Rand at base levels, but the moment he enhances his physical abilities with his chi then it's game over for Cassandra. Considering that Harley Quinn was able to go toe to toe with Cain and come out on top then the physically superior and master martial artists known as Iron Fist should have no problem what so ever.
She may have beaten Shiva, but Shiva isn't chi enhanced and able to bring down entire buildings with a single punch or use chi enhanced attacks to instantly kill another human like he did to the Iron Fist Killer in which his fist literally made his head explode.
Both Rand and Cain can dodge bullets, but Rand has been shown to CATCH them, when it comes to speed he is much faster than Cassandra and he puts out much more damage than she does.
The Xenomorphs could possibly prove to be trouble, but Iron Fist could easily dispatch of them with his Chi Projectiles to prevent himself from getting burned by the acidic blood they have or NC could tele-drop the lot of them and possibly drop them atop of your own team to crush them or get the acidic blood over your own team.
Worst comes to worse with the Xenomorphs Iron Fist has to use his enhanced punches to blow right through them and then use his healing factor to recover from the acid.
As for the Ninja's I'm really not worried about them, they're fodder characters. Iron Fist was able to solo 88 S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents, Harley brought down an entire Swat Team, and Nightcrawler has taken down groups of mutants on his own. Unless the Ninja's are packing some incredible feats or you can show me how they're more than just fodder I don't see them making a difference in this battle.
Your team has the numbers, but my team has the skill, strength, and overall abilities to defeat yours in combat.
I look forward to your response and believe that this will be one wicked battle :)
First I would like to come back to the Nightcrawler vs Lizard argument.
All it takes is a well placed sword blow from NC at the neck to sever his head and end it there.
Well I don't think it would be that easy, since the lizard has impenetrable skin.
Gallery
These are showings of him tanking point blank gunfire from rifles and side-arms. The stopping power of a gun is larger that a sword, which is why a bullet would penetrate someone with a firearm but not when you drive it into them by hand.
A ruthless and no morals NC would have no problem grabbing Lizard from behind, teleporting a mile or so into the sky, and then dropping him.
Wow. That is a good point indeed. The only counter I can make to that is his tail which acts like another of his limbs. If Kurt tries to get behing him he could get knocked on his a$$ by that tail.
Here he does it to Spiderman with relative ease, and I find that Peter's dodging ability > Kurt's
How quick is his healing factor?
I can't find any scan showing his healing at all. But several wikis (Wikipedia, Marvel.com, Marvel wiki) and other sources all say its pretty fast. I'm not sure if it's instant or not though. I will stay on the lookout!
Next I will argue against Harley Quinn
She does have a skill level above Fisk, but her strength and pain tolerance are not even in his ballpark. I see the battle going as- Harley throws a punch at him, He catches it like he did the nunchuck, she can't break free like Spiderman couldn't, he drops on her and crushes her. If that seems too far fetched to you, I will split my Xenomorphs, so three attack Rand and two attack Quinn.
Acid spray corrodes target on impact, can burn through skin or concrete.
I'll do the argument against Rand and the prep I get later.
Iron Fist is my all time favorite Marvel Comics character
Awesome! He's my third favorite Marvel character and I know what he is capable of so this will be really tough!
@thetruebarryallen: Wouldn't using that drink on Harley be against the rules, since it says standard gear and also says during prep no bringing anything from outside the map?
For my prep, the squads would be established.
Squad 1- 3 Xenomorphs, Cassie Cain, and 8 Hand Ninjas. Going after Iron Fist
Squad 2- The Lizard. Going after Nightcrawler
Squad 3- The Kingpin, 2 Xenomorphs. Going after Harley Quinn (once they make short work of her) will assist squad 1 in taking down Rand.
After that is all cleared up, Cass will tell the Hand Ninjas to stay close to her and attack Rand as a group, so he can't just pick them off one at a time. I feel that if 8 swords, 3 streams of highly corrosive acid, and one superb martial artist are all attacking Rand at the same time, he will get hit.
@jonez120: Alright, time for me to respond to everything you've posted.
First I would like to come back to the Nightcrawler vs Lizard argument.
Alright, lets do that.
Well I don't think it would be that easy, since the lizard has impenetrable skin.
Only reason I mentioned it was because you said that Lizard would be able to heal from the sword wounds, you made it seem like the sword would indeed hurt him, if it doesn't then tele-drop is still an incredibly valid theory for a bloodlusted NC.
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Wow. That is a good point indeed. The only counter I can make to that is his tail which acts like another of his limbs. If Kurt tries to get behind him he could get knocked on his a$$ by that tail.
I don't really see that happening in the context of this fight. Nightcrawler has incredible reaction times, he's been able to dodge point blank bullet fire via teleporting & with pure agility, so considering that he's bloodlusted means he won't be playing around at all during this fight. From what I know Lizard doesn't have any sort of ability that would allow him to predict where NC is going to appear ( unlike Spiderman who has his SS & Daredevil who can sense changes in the atmosphere ) so it's only going to take NC a second or so to teleport within arms length of Lizard, grab him, and teleport into the air where he lets him go. Lizard won't even know what's going on & the teleportation process actually discombobulates those who aren't familiar with undergoing it ( essentially everyone but NC ).
I can't find any scan showing his healing at all. But several wikis (Wikipedia, Marvel.com, Marvel wiki) and other sources all say its pretty fast. I'm not sure if it's instant or not though. I will stay on the lookout!
Sounds good, I mean, I don't expect him to heal from the teledrop.
She does have a skill level above Fisk, but her strength and pain tolerance are not even in his ballpark. I see the battle going as- Harley throws a punch at him, He catches it like he did the nunchuck, she can't break free like Spiderman couldn't, he drops on her and crushes her. If that seems too far fetched to you, I will split my Xenomorphs, so three attack Rand and two attack Quinn.
In this hypothetical battle you failed to mention any of the gadgets that I listed that HQ uses. If Fisk gets blasted with the taser/yo-yo then he's going to be stunned, even if for only a short period of time. Knocking him off his guard with some explosive bubblegum & following up with a blast from her Pop Gun will be rather simple after he's been jolted with electricity. This would leave Fisk open for attack by the incredibly quick HQ & her in depth knowledge of pressure points will allow her to drop him with ease.
If you're splitting up the Xenomorphs then that makes things more interesting, but you haven't really shown what they can do. Sure, they've got acid blood & are pretty quick, but I still see Harley coming out on top. Mostly because once NC is done with Lizard then he'll be able to teleport right over to HQ & give her assistance, NC should be able to 1HK the Xenomorphs while HQ focuses on Fisk.
Once the Xenomorphs are killed then NC is able to focus his attention on Fisk, then once that squad is KO-ed/Dead then NC will be able to Teleport himself & HQ to Iron Fist to aid him in his battle against Cassandra Cain.
Wouldn't using that drink on Harley be against the rules, since it says standard gear and also says during prep no bringing anything from outside the map?
I wouldn't think so, considering she drank it once & kept all the abilities. It's not like a drug she has to keep using, it was a serum that enhanced her physicals just like the Super Soldier Serum worked on Captain America & the Gamma Radiation worked with Hulk. She isn't bringing the drink with her, it's something that happened in her canon & I was notifying you of considering most people think she's just a normal human who dresses like a clown.
For my prep, the squads would be established.
Sounds good. I'll be keeping HQ with Iron Fist while NC uses his porting ability to weaken your team while they work their way to mine. He should have no problem dropping Lizard & some of the Hand Ninja's, and some of the Xenomorphs before the rest of my team finds you.
Squad 1- 3 Xenomorphs, Cassie Cain, and 8 Hand Ninjas. Going after Iron Fist
The Hand Ninja's are no problem for IF. Considering that NC will be able to teleport around your entire team & drop some of your team by getting precise & deadly stabs with his swords ( he is an expert fencer ) then your "squads" are going to be weakened by the time they reach my team.
It should also be noted that Iron Fist was able to take down a force of 88 SHIELD Agents by himself, so if you think that pure numbers & firepower is going to be enough to bring him down then you're underestimating him. Especially since he's blood-lusted and won't think twice about using area devastating attacks ( such as a ground pound that was able to bring down an entire Helicarrier ) so it'll be able to shake up your team quite a bit.
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Squad 2- The Lizard. Going after Nightcrawler
Lizard doesn't stand a chance against NC from what I'm seeing. Unless you can prove me wrong then Lizard is going down the moment this fight begins.
Squad 3- The Kingpin, 2 Xenomorphs. Going after Harley Quinn (once they make short work of her) will assist squad 1 in taking down Rand.
Quinn can make short work of Fisk; NC can make short work of the Xenomorphs. Considering that Rand is going to be with HQ then it'll be Cass, the remaining Xenomorphs, and the remaining Hand Ninjas against HQ, NC, and Rand.
After that is all cleared up, Cass will tell the Hand Ninjas to stay close to her and attack Rand as a group, so he can't just pick them off one at a time. I feel that if 8 swords, 3 streams of highly corrosive acid, and one superb martial artist are all attacking Rand at the same time, he will get hit.
NC uses his porting to teledrop or 1HKO the Hand Ninjas with his swords, this leaves Cass unguarded. Rand will use his ground pounds to shake up the Xenomorphs, allowing Harley to combat them in H2H combat with assistance from NC when he's finished with the Ninjas. Rand can hold his own against Cass & should be able to overpower her once he amps his stats with Chi, he outclasses her in this situation. Plus he'll have the aid of the rest of his team once they're finished taking out the fodder you've surrounded yourself with.
Quick Summary
You have numbers; I have power, speed, and mobility.
You don't have an answer for NC's Teledrop, which he's been shown to use while not bloodlusted, amping him with bloodlust just makes it even more probable for you.
The Hand Ninja's are fodder, as are the Xenomorphs since you haven't really explained WHY they'll be a danger to my team. NC can literally just teledrop all of them, HQ's gadgets would work on the Ninja's, and Rand can take down even larger groups of fodder.
Fisk is tough, but once HQ is getting aid from NC then she'll have no problem taking him down.
Cass is incredibly skilled, but since IF isn't holding back then I don't think she stands a chance. The rest of my team will serve to remove the fodder from around her, and once they're finished with that then it'll be a 3v1 in my favor.
@thetruebarryallen: I apologize but I'm on my mobile phone, and since I only get a limited number of debating-posts, I'll try to hold off until I can start posting more feats.
After doing some research, I hypothesize that teledropping won't even work on The Lizard for a few reasons.
1: The Lizard is listed in weight at somewhere between 510 to 550 lbs. But on the Marvel wiki page for NC it says he can lift approximately 250 lbs. So, he can't really hold on to The Lizard in mid-air and keep teleporting upwards.
2: It is said constantly that NC has a limit to the amount of mass he can carry while teleporting. So can he teleport with this 530lb, 6'8ft beast. Do you have any feats of 616 Kurt teleporting with people or things of that mass?
3: I would like to take note that teleporting upwards is tiring to Kurt, and in some instances, teleporting with other pieces of mass is tiring to Kurt. Adding them together would make him exhausted do to the sheer size of The Lizard (if he could lift him)
Xenomorphs
Feats include burning through rope with acid (Harley's sillystring wouldn't be effective), cutting bodies in half, being about a foot behind someone undetected (incredible stealth), and bursting straight through glass.
As for Kingpin, would Harley's bullet knock him out and would her sillystring be able to restrain him? Since he has strength near Spiderman's level and his pain tolerance/durability is insane.
Edit - My laptop was acting up, my bad. The video of the aliens and your tag disappeared. Sorry.
I'd also like to mention that xenomorphs have a second mouth inside their first one that can propel itself straight through human skull. Killing it's victim. So at close range, the xenomorphs and Danny could both provide each other life ending blows.
Also, can Danny provide blow after blow of Chi-powered punches? Because I have a lot of people up against him, so I'm not sure if he can keep doing those powerful blows over and over again. I thought he had some sort of limit to how much chi he could use in a certain period of time or something along those lines. Correct me if I am wrong though.
I'm again going to state that Cass can kick straight through three inch wide quartz. That same kick could break Danny's ribs.
Here's a thought as well, would Harley be able to use the pressure points on Kingpin at all? Cause I mean... He has all that protective blubber lol.
How I see the battle going-
Kingpin and the xenomorphs attack Harley. The aliens could potentially blitz her and dogpile her, which means they'd absolutely destroy her. Or Kingpin grabs her and crushes her during their h2h confrontation. I still don't think the gadgets would work on him any.
Nightcrawler and Lizard fight, after a while of Nightcrawler trying to penetrate Lizard with his sword, he realizes it is no use and grabs him and teleports upwards. After the first teleport he realizes The Lizard is too heavy to hold onto and drops him. He is also exhausted from teleporting upwards with such an extreme amount of mass. Lizard is not harmed from the drop since NC could only teleport upwards once. Lizard then goes and kills him.
Cassie, Xenomorphs, and the ninjas attack Rand.
He goes straight for the chi-punch and kills a xenomorph, but then either Cassie kicks him or a different xenomorph penetrates his skull. All contenders in that fight have the capability to mortally wound each other in one blow. The difference is, my team has numbers. Therefore, a bigger chance of Rand to fall. Everytime he goes up close there's a chance he won't hit first. Then he is done.
I'd also like to note that...
When Rand is healing he is meditating and focusing and he slowly heals. He wont have time for that.
In the scan of him dodging arrows, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that Orson Randall?
My vote goes to trubarryallen here. jaxthejester had the most excellent breakdown of this and agree with him 100%. truebarry simply provided plausible reasoning why his team prevails with more than ample back up points. He also effectively countered offensive attacks.
I find it funny that CosmicallyAware1 "agreed with JaxTheJester's breakdown 100%" but yet he voted for the other team ^_^. And don't get me wrong— the analysis from my fellow Jester was indeed the best here but I'd disagree with a couple points. Jonez kinda posted a last-minute rebuttal after the tournament host opened the debate to votes, which is 50% fair because Cdiddy did so without much notice.. but 50% unfair because my man @thetruebarryallen didn't get a chance to respond. This was mostly a problem about the stuff regarding the Lizard which is hard to judge when a counter couldn't be made. It's almost a toss-up, but in da end I'll have to give my vote to TheTrueBarry for very plausible reasoning, but BOTH of you deserve much applause. Might I add that Barry never ceases to impress me with how he's able to debate WELL with every damn character he tackles ((you represented Harley Quinn beautifully!!)).
Wait, he posted something after voting was started. Plus I never got tagged in the post telling me that he had responded, when he edited he post he didn't tell me that he tagged me he just said the tag didn't work.
While I did totally have a counter for the whole Lizard thing I guess I won't get the chance to post it, bummer.
@jaxthejester_2014: @jonez120: Go back and read's TTBA's scans, while under the effects of Omega Red's death spores, Nightcrawler was able to grab him and teleport him up high enough to KO him. In case you have forgotten, Omega Red has carbonadium all throughout his body. He weighs about as much as Lizard does (425 lbs vs. Lizards 550). The counter to that ridiculous claim was already in the scan. Considering that Nightcrawler has teleported 30 people at one time, I am sure that how much he can lift is not relevant to how much he can teleport. Basically, Jax you are wrong for not reading thoroughly and Jonez you are dead wrong because you made a claim that 10 seconds of Googling could have told you was stupid. Morals off Nightcrawler could kill 3 people a second and there was nothing your team could do to stop him.
@thetruebarryallen: Sorry you didn't get to actually finish this debate.
I vote for @thetruebarryallen. He made his way through this fight leaving it clear for me to vote. It was quite evident to recognize he was superior during the whole debate.
@jaxthejester_2014: @jonez120: Go back and read's TTBA's scans, while under the effects of Omega Red's death spores, Nightcrawler was able to grab him and teleport him up high enough to KO him. In case you have forgotten, Omega Red has carbonadium all throughout his body. He weighs about as much as Lizard does (425 lbs vs. Lizards 550). The counter to that ridiculous claim was already in the scan. Considering that Nightcrawler has teleported 30 people at one time, I am sure that how much he can lift is not relevant to how much he can teleport. Basically, Jax you are wrong for not reading thoroughly and Jonez you are dead wrong because you made a claim that 10 seconds of Googling could have told you was stupid. Morals off Nightcrawler could kill 3 people a second and there was nothing your team could do to stop him.
@thetruebarryallen: Sorry you didn't get to actually finish this debate.
Anyways, TTBA gets my vote.
I respect your opinion my friend, but I am not debating in this match. If NC can lift 550 lbs, then it is not my place to interject this counter. I was just reading what was posted, and offering my Vote. And it is only my opinion, but others have shared it. As far as illegal posts from one of the debaters go... I agree this is a problem. I would assume that the OP should step in and fix it if there is a posting violation? I was not aware that the Voters were required to Mod. This is my first Tourney debate here at comicvine; and I was only trying to make a solid contribution to the best of my ability. Anway, my apologies if you found my vote upsetting...
@jonez120 I am the judge. SO no voting for me :( Also 2 more days of voting
Howdy cdiddy. Can I petition you to step in and take a look at the posts here? It appears there is some contention that the rules were violated. I would appriciate your input. Thanks!
@thetruebarryallen I am truly sorry if the rules were violated here. Perhaps a cididdy can make an exception to allow you to post a counter if there was a rules violation? This should be an easy fix. It just requires some mediation.
Edit Note: It appears that I've reached a posting limit (two posts?), so I'm afraid I cannot go into details further for a bit. If anyone has questions; please PM. I'll see your posts, but not be able to reply to them. I can say this much: I did not take the final post from jonez into consideration, I went only from the posts prior. The post stating Lizard could not be lifted was 11 days ago; so I assumed it was fair game. I admit that I did not realize a tagging was missed, so I do think that the OP should take a look and Mod it as needed. That said; if Lizard is proven to be "liftable" by NC, then I would change my vote as Noted in my original Voting post (check the last 2 lines). But I do not feel comfortable acting as a Mod and doing this myself. I hope this does get resolved. I thought the match was excellent. Though the Voting is proving to be... less than an awesome experience.
@jaxthejester_2014: It's no biggie, like, if we want to keep the post there we can. Diredrill kind of summed up some stuff anyways and the scan speaks for itself in which the character who was lifted is around the same weightclass as Lizard.
It's up to the voters though, whatever happens happens, we do this all for good fun anyways :)
@jaxthejester_2014: It's no biggie, like, if we want to keep the post there we can. Diredrill kind of summed up some stuff anyways and the scan speaks for itself in which the character who was lifted is around the same weightclass as Lizard.
It's up to the voters though, whatever happens happens, we do this all for good fun anyways :)
I can post again! No more posting limit message now. ...that is so odd, lol. Thanks for the reply bud. I appriciate it. And I do also appriciate that @diredrill stepped in to clarify the rules for posting on your behalf. I dig your stance brother. It should be all in good fun. I think you guys did an amazing job this round, and I just want to make sure I'm being a fair voter for both of you.
Honestly, I think I may be confused by the voting rules here...
@cdiddyman911 As a clarification for us newer Voters: Are we supposed to go only off of arguments provided by the two Debaters themselves; or are we supposed to also do personal research to debunk the contentions they bring up?
If it is the second, then I do apologize to everyone, and I will gladly Edit my prior post. Perhaps I have misunderstood the rules criteria for voting in these. I couldn't find mention of Omega Red, or other lifiting maxims for NC, prior to the voter post by @diredrill; and I assumed it wasn't in the rules for me to apply such a counter myself. Help with understanding this part would be much appriciated. I want to contribute positively to these matches, and I fear misunderstanding of this area of the rules may be hindering me (and costing me new friends, lol).
That last post that Jonez did was 100% unfair. He post this 3 days after I said voting was on and its not cool. So that whole post will be not allowed. Also because of this mixup I'll allow voting for 1 more day.
@jaxthejester_2014: If a scan is presented into evidence, it functions as proof of what a person is capable of doing. If Kurt can teleport the Omega Red, he can teleport the Lizard. That scan is a direct counter to that ridiculous argument. You have to vote based upon what is presented. Had TTBA not posted the scan, then by all means you are right to vote the way you did but that is not what happened.
My comment about research was aimed at Jonez not you. It is the responsibility of both debaters to read the other person's scans. Had Jonez done so, he would not have made such a ridiculous argument.
@jaxthejester_2014: If a scan is presented into evidence, it functions as proof of what a person is capable of doing. If Kurt can teleport the Omega Red, he can teleport the Lizard. That scan is a direct counter to that ridiculous argument. You have to vote based upon what is presented. Had TTBA not posted the scan, then by all means you are right to vote the way you did but that is not what happened.
My comment about research was aimed at Jonez not you. It is the responsibility of both debaters to read the other person's scans. Had Jonez done so, he would not have made such a ridiculous argument.
@jaxthejester_2014: If a scan is presented into evidence, it functions as proof of what a person is capable of doing. If Kurt can teleport the Omega Red, he can teleport the Lizard. That scan is a direct counter to that ridiculous argument. You have to vote based upon what is presented. Had TTBA not posted the scan, then by all means you are right to vote the way you did but that is not what happened.
My comment about research was aimed at Jonez not you. It is the responsibility of both debaters to read the other person's scans. Had Jonez done so, he would not have made such a ridiculous argument.
Ah, I see. Thank you my friend, the clarification is appriciated and well explained.
I've decided to delete my prior Vote post in light of the confusion. I'll watch a few more of these play out before I jump in and try to Vote again. Thanks again.
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