Loki is the first one to go down, Flash can evade the Kryptonians at least, but Loki, oh boy, is gonna get murked and one shotted by Supes.
What? So the guy who got tagged numerous times by regular humans in his own show (which is awesome btw) is somewhat evading all attacks from MoS Zod and Faora, but Loki, which can stay invisible and create dozens of illusions isnt?
Thor is too slow and Loki can create illusions to fool Superman
Flash is a non factor, he has never hurt anyone with Superhuman durability. Be patience people his time will come. He is fighting a super durable character next episode.
Team 2 for both. Flash doesn't have enough showings to really be a factor yet, And Loki's illusions are going to cause trouble. I see Thor and Superman going at it thanks to Loki, softening up the winner (who I think would be Clark for a majority) for Zod, Faora and Loki..
Seeing as how Loki is the sole person to have utilized prep, round 2 doesn't do team 1 any favors. I don't see them winning round 1 as it is.
@fallingcliffs: There's one thing I want to know before I answer: are we turning off the whole "Faora can't handle her senses" plot device?
Good question, you know what to make things more interesting I will elaborate on Faora's power via the Round one and Round 2. They'll be different so check out the original OP ;)
@fallingcliffs: I'm thinking team 2 in both rounds. Round 1 will be very difficult, but I see it like this: Zod and Superman will be fighting each other. Flash, despite having somewhat of a healing factor, has terrible durability. Not only that, his speed isn't that impressive compared to what his comic counterpart is capable of. Both Faora and Zod are capable of tagging him and Loki's illusions are quite convincing (not to mention he has good reaction speed himself). Also, Barry's not very good at thinking while in a battle. Even if he were to take Loki's staff, he wouldn't do anything more than swing it. My point is that I think Flash will be tagged fairly quickly and will be oneshotted. Now, if Faora was the one fighting Flash, she'll oneshot and join Loki against Thor while that battle is still in it's early stages. Together they can beat Thor. Even if he were to break her helmet (very possible with Mjolnir) Loki could hold him off long enough for her to adapt to her heightened senses. If Loki's fighting Flash, it will take him slightly longer to tag him, but Faora may actually be winning her match against Thor. Again, even if he breaks her helmet, it will be a 2-on-1 by then and she'll have time to adapt. I think Zod can hold out against Superman until Flash and Thor are defeated. This will eventually come down to a 3-on-1 vs Superman and I say they win that. Team 2 6/10
Round 2 is a more definitive victory for team 2 because Faora has control of her senses from the beginning (Zod gained both flight and heat vision after adjusting), and no one on Team 1 has shown prep feats. Like I said, Barry isn't good at thinking mid-battle, and it's been Star Labs that's helped him through every battle. However General Zod & Lieutenant Faora (I stress the military ranks) should do great with prep, so should Loki. Even with Flash being "as fast as he needs to be", I'm not sure what he can do against a master of magic and illusion in Loki or an amped Faora, especially when Team 2 definitely had the prep advantage. Team 2 8/10
Team 1 is basically MOS, Thor and Flash have nothing to help with. Flash at least won't get tagged based on the speed feats of the tv show. But he can't harm anyone either. Thor is useless bar Loki.
Literally if Zod beats MOS he solos both rounds. "If".
Thor and Loki are the weak links here (thank you Disney) , but team 1 take this thanks to Superman.
How is Thor the weak link? He might be the slowest on his team but unlike Flash he can actually hurt the members on the other team with his strikes/lightening, Flash is useless here. Team 2 take this.
@ indomitableregal: hmm well you raise sid points though flash im sure will be faster and he gets faster and faster as time goes on, remember second round hes mástered his speed here and one thing i do disagree on is his durability being terrible, hes already survived lethal hits, toxins, injuries etc that they confirmed would have killed a normal human.
On faora she didnt gaon control of her abilities in the beginning, she had her powers but didnt have nearly the control or mental focus of zod or supes over them.
Honestly, while flash isnt remotely as fast as his comic book version, neither is loki or thor here or even mos as powerful as their book versions. To be fair. Plus remember cap a has fought loki so i def think flash could one shot him or give him serious problems while supes and thor deal with zod and faora.
@indomitableregal: hmm well you raise sid points though flash im sure will be faster and he gets faster and faster as time goes on, remember second round hes mástered his speed here and one thing i do disagree on is his durability being terrible, hes already survived lethal hits, toxins, injuries etc that they confirmed would have killed a normal human.
On faora she didnt gaon control of her abilities in the beginning, she had her powers but didnt have nearly the control or mental focus of zod or supes over them.
Honestly, while flash isnt remotely as fast as his comic book version, neither is loki or thor here or even mos as powerful as their book versions. To be fair. Plus remember cap a has fought loki so i def think flash could one shot him or give him serious problems while supes and thor deal with zod and faora.
Flash surviving the things you mentioned speaks more to his accelerated healing. His durability however, is a different story. He didn't experience 3rd degree frostbite from Capt. Cold because his body was healing at such a fast rate (which is specified in the episode). Durability is more about him resisting damage in the first place. Things that should hurt or injure a normal human hurt him too. Just to use an extreme example, if 5 normal men were all hitting Superman, he likely wouldn't even feel it. Barry on the other hand...well you can look at his first encounter with Multiplex. He was forced to retreat and had a bloody face.
As far as Flash oneshotting Loki, watch the Loki and Cap fight again. He tanked all of Cap's blows (durability) and was tossing him around. He had no problem dealing with Cap and allowed himself to be captured when Iron Man came (part of his plan). Even his own scepter only managed to knock him off his feet with no apparent damage (the same scepter that overturned a car). Loki may be physically weaker than Thor and the Kryptonians, but he far outranks Barry.
@ beware_my_power: I think its def more than possible, lot of people seem to think flash goes down easy here. If so i dont see loki doing it.
@ Indomitableregal:-I see what youre saying, but remember as you stated one....flash heals quickly, two multipleman is also a metahuman who also multiplied not only at will but when flash hit him the prime one. Notice he was holding back unsure of himself then once he pushed himself he blitzed right thru the clones of mm and koed the prime one in seconds. Hes also outrun and beaten mist, pure mist which while zod and faora could outrun im sure, doubtful loki can.
Episode 4 he was moving crazy fast both on the car robbery and saving several folks on the train before it crashed....
I dont question him being immune to getting hurt but anyone one team 2 least of all loki tagging him...
I disagree, flash hits way harder than ca....only reason ca managed was due to his shield. I dont see loki outranking flash here, especially when ca holds his own vs him and hulk grabbed him. Hulk is a million times slower than flash.
@fallingcliffs: flash hits harder than Steve, lol. Did you read your own statements. Who has Barry koed in the whole series that has any durability. Has he run through walls like Steve did, has he taken down an armored jet, has he beaten 11 trained agents with his hand stuck to a wall.
@Thanosii: I take it youDon't read much Flash obviously eh? lol You may want to check out something called IMP (infinite mass punch). Flash blitzed through a mini army(more than just 11 agents) and KOed the main one via multiple man, he's also defeated Mist and outran him(because I'm sure Steve would totally beat Mist...) and weather wizard much? When has steve taken on someone who can manipulate weather? lol
I'd think you'd be joking comparing Steve taking 11 agents to Flash taking out Weather Wizard and Mist...both of whom I'd bet would beat Steve pretty bad.
Also, Flash has rescued multiple people before train crashes. That easily compares if isn't better than CA's jumping on a jet feat. It was still on the ground too btw imagine you're referring to CA2 yes?
@fallingcliffs: Live Action Flash doesn't have IMP. He beat Multiplex and Mist the same way: he forced them to overexert themselves and then knocked them out when they were already exhausted (note once again that both times he only figured out this strategy because of STAR Labs). @thanosii is right, live-action Cap does hit harder than live-action Flash. This isn't to say that Steve could beat Mist or Weather Wizard, but Barry's speed is why he won, not his strength. Speaking of Weather Wizard, that's probably his best quantifiable feat, since they said he would have to reach 700 mph (Mach 1) to undo the cyclone. He had to push himself to reach that speed. The train feat was cool, but we don't know how fast he was actually going. The only times since then where they've calculated his speed was when he was running on the special treadmill, and that fluctuated between high 200's and low 300's.
As far as his healing factor, it allows him to survive, but it definitely doesn't mean he can't be KO'ed or killed. If he was getting beat up the way Cap was at the end of Winter Soldier he would've been unconscious long before Cap was, which speaks to my point about his durability. I still believe that Faora can oneshot, and Loki has enough speed, reflexes, intelligence, and skill to tag Barry.
... what is Flash going to do in this situation? Literally his only option is to run away. As far as battles go he's almost entirely featless in the show and none of his attacks would do damage.
Flash can dodge them but he really can´t do anything. Round 1 is a win for team 2. In round 2 Flash maybe can ask Cisco to create an ice gun for him but that won´t help him since Loki is a frost gigant.
@ Indomitable: you do know flash got beat up by metahumans before like mm, mist and wasnt ko right? So will disagree. Only mist actually effected him via the toxin which due to his healing overcame. Im pretty certain that would kill ca and at least effect loki.
As for live action, not yet...but he can easily do it. He doesnt vibrate his face in the comics often either but did it in the show on whim....he also was confirmed to have no top speed limit as wells confirmed. He has no reason to...yet. So im pretty sure he can imp if he needed to.
The treadmill he also had to hold back a bit because he busted the other one if you remember or will break something.
Ca does Not Hit harder than flash, thats wrong regardless of who thinks that. So by that logic you think ca vs flash, ca would beat a guy who can move million times faster? Ha! In steves dreams...flashs speed allows him to hit harder. Its called momemtum and flash has lots of it. When pushed he can hit as hard and some argue potentially harder than superman which loki is no where near that level of power much less ca.
Faora maybe, her speed feats were impressive but definitely not loki. Hes slow as a slug compared to barry. Obviously this is fact if you watched lokis speed hes slow as hell compared to barry. You must have missed a few shows....i agree with others here who already said flash can just take lokis staff before he knew what hit him.
Train >>>>anything lokis done. You figure it was crashing, flash literally ran in and out a few times rescuing multiple people before it flipped over which probably happened within a minute or less as it started to tip over. He was saving everyone in the train before it fell, so prob figure he was moving well over 900 to 1000 mph in less than it took to fall over prob about 20 to 30 max to take to get destroyed. And he was also just lightning practically which we rarely see since hes had no reason to move so fast. The tornado while also good, all he needed to run is faster than the tornado which on average goes a few hundred mph winds max...flash can easily outdo that.
Actually no, flash didnt beat both the,same way. He blitzed mm and had to find the prime one thus koing the rest once he tagged the main or prime one. Wells confirmed this. Mist he beat by dodging him long enough for mist to overexert himself and tgus forcing him to be solid before flash oneshotted him.
Mm barry blitzed thru an armu of clones from mm before blitzing the prime one.
Thinking about it Cisco said that the ice gun could achive absolute zero if it is true then in round 2 Flash makes all of the other team a block of ice.
Marvel movie versions are extremely weak, the only marvel movie characters I see actually being a match against even the regular soldiers in MOS is Thanos himself, Hulk, and I guess the silver surfer which isn't part of the current continuity.
Ronan might be able to as well.
Thor in the movie version is strong as far as heroes go in it but compared to MOS he's a low ball.
Nam-Ek would beat able to beat Hulk based on his feats (the big guy who fought with Faora)
Flash is way too fast for Loki to hit but he'd lose to Faora and Zod. Flash is going t be stronger when he fights zoom but till then I don't see him beating Nam-Ek led alone Faora and Superman can't beat both Zod and Faora at the same time. Loki and Thor are non factors and Flash is a non factor for a bit but he'll get to a point where he can beat Faora I'm willing to guess.
@pantypolice: Thank you! on the flash point, Flash is being WAY too lowballed here lol I'm starting to think most dont even watch the show, his train feat and mist fighting feats are more than enough proof that he can easily take on Loki if not oneshot him at least steal his weapon...
@hatemalingsia I believe that topic was made already, most people felt the Kryptonians would clean house(mostly due to durability and Faora's crazy speed)
@black_arrow hmm good point on top of his speed that would be a good strategy. Forgot about the freeze gun.
I don't know about this one. Flash's reaction timing and speed to me so far is superior to what we've seen from the Kryptonians, with the exception of general flight of course. Although, he won't be hurting anyone here, but he could distract Loki long enough for Thor to drop him. Thor's fight with Malekith showed some decent versatility with his hammer so I think he can definitely go punch for punch with Faora. Clark and Zod are toss ups because neither really had an advantage over the other for the entirety of their fight.
I'd say round one could go to the good guys because of a numbers advantage. Team two might take the second round if Faora has better control of her powers.
@ Indomitable: you do know flash got beat up by metahumans before like mm, mist and wasnt ko right? So will disagree. Only mist actually effected him via the toxin which due to his healing overcame. Im pretty certain that would kill ca and at least effect loki.
As for live action, not yet...but he can easily do it. He doesnt vibrate his face in the comics often either but did it in the show on whim....he also was confirmed to have no top speed limit as wells confirmed. He has no reason to...yet. So im pretty sure he can imp if he needed to.
The treadmill he also had to hold back a bit because he busted the other one if you remember or will break something.
Ca does Not Hit harder than flash, thats wrong regardless of who thinks that. So by that logic you think ca vs flash, ca would beat a guy who can move million times faster? Ha! In steves dreams...flashs speed allows him to hit harder. Its called momemtum and flash has lots of it. When pushed he can hit as hard and some argue potentially harder than superman which loki is no where near that level of power much less ca.
Faora maybe, her speed feats were impressive but definitely not loki. Hes slow as a slug compared to barry. Obviously this is fact if you watched lokis speed hes slow as hell compared to barry. You must have missed a few shows....i agree with others here who already said flash can just take lokis staff before he knew what hit him.
Train >>>>anything lokis done. You figure it was crashing, flash literally ran in and out a few times rescuing multiple people before it flipped over which probably happened within a minute or less as it started to tip over. He was saving everyone in the train before it fell, so prob figure he was moving well over 900 to 1000 mph in less than it took to fall over prob about 20 to 30 max to take to get destroyed. And he was also just lightning practically which we rarely see since hes had no reason to move so fast. The tornado while also good, all he needed to run is faster than the tornado which on average goes a few hundred mph winds max...flash can easily outdo that.
Actually no, flash didnt beat both the,same way. He blitzed mm and had to find the prime one thus koing the rest once he tagged the main or prime one. Wells confirmed this. Mist he beat by dodging him long enough for mist to overexert himself and tgus forcing him to be solid before flash oneshotted him.
Mm barry blitzed thru an armu of clones from mm before blitzing the prime one.
First, I'm not even gonna touch on Faora. She can and will tag Flash, then proceed to oneshot him:
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Now to address everything else. Multiplex's metahuman ability is creating copies, Mist's is becoming a toxic gas. However neither one was physically stronger than a normal human, so the fact that he wasn't KO'ed isn't impressive. Also. Multiplex wasn't trying to KO him, he tried to kill him. He beat him up some, threw him into some barrels, then lined up to shoot him. A KO was never part of the equation. He ran before he was shot and again, you could see the damage. In their 2nd encounter, Wells told him to look for the prime, so he ran through the clones (note that he ran through without injuring any of them) and then blitzed the physically exhausted prime.
When he tried to fight Mist, his punch went right through. Mist punched him twice and Flash dropped to his knees (again with the bad durability), then put his toxic gas into Barry's lungs. Barry ran away (again) and his healing factor kept him alive long enough for them to extract the toxin, not his durability. Whether or not it would kill Captain America is irrelevant. In their 2nd encounter, Cisco told him not to breathe in any of the gas. He had to have a limit to his ability, so Flash ran until, like Multiplex, Mist physically exhausted himself and was forced to go solid. Then he beat him. That's why I say he essentially won the same way.
You mentioned Wells saying that Flash may not have a top speed limit. I don't remember him saying that exactly, but even if he did it's important to remember that Wells has knowledge of the future, so him talking about Flash's potential could be referring to years from now. Actually, he's the only one that even knows the name Flash at this point.
I never once said that Captain America could beat Flash, but Cap does hit harder than Barry. You're seriously reaching with the infinite mass punch. Barry doesn't have the IMP. He would need to reach near light-speed for that and he hasn't even shown that he can reach Mach 2 (again, the fastest speed that they actually said was Mach 1 which was the Weather Wizard fight). Flash's speed and momentum can accelerate him to the point that he hits harder, but Cap is physically stronger. I won't even bring up the fact that you said he may hit harder than Superman. Cap has kicked down steel doors and of course, there's the punching bag feat. In Agents of SHIELD, Mike Peterson/Deathlok was doing strength training at a SHIELD facility and upon completion asked if he beat Steve's time. They told him "not even close". Note once again that Loki was tanking all of Cap's blows and throwing him around.
This brings me to my last point: Loki. Loki isn't a speedster and he's the slowest person in this battle, but that doesn't make him helpless. I already addressed Flash stealing his scepter. He might take it, but even if he does all he's going to do is either throw it away (believing that he has a large advantage now that Loki is disarmed) ,or try to hit Loki with it (because it's not like he'll know how to use a Chitauri scepter). He had no problem keeping up with and countering Captain America, who isn't slow in travel or combat speed, and he caught Hawkeye's arrow without looking. Neither one of those are above or equal to Flash's train feat or even his lower feats, but I still believe he has enough speed, reflexes, intelligence, strength, and skill to tag and KO Flash. In that train scene, Barry was exhausted afterward. Not only that, but he had lost track of Captain Cold, allowing him to catch him off guard with the ice gun. Now you don't think Loki, a god (or at least the MCU equivalent) with a mastery of magic and illusion, could catch Barry off guard? The idea of Flash oneshotting Loki is just ridiculous. He hasn't fought anyone with enhanced strength or durability yet, much less someone on Loki's level. You'd be lucky if it isn't the other way around.
@ indomitableregal: Faora MIGHT tag Flash and I stress MIGHT, keep in mind since he's a speedster he can do more with speed than Faora can. All she can do is move fast and hit, big deal. Flash can do that too...and then some.
You're using Superman as an example of her tagging Flash? really? That's a bad example, I know her feats and yes they're good but I think you're lowballing and underestimating Flash's speed. Bullets are slow to Barry....and reverses weather wizard's tornado with ease. Faora is a trained fighter, Clark is not thus his reaction speed at first was poor. In most if not all mediums once Flash and Supes adapt to their speed powers, Flash has always been faster which makes him faster than any kryptonian.
Flash saving multiple people in ridiculously fast time before train crashes again...til Faora does this he can move faster than her.
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Mist and MM are still metahumans though which make them more powerful than average people just like Kryptonians are stronger then average people, MM did try to kill Flash by shooting him but Flash dodged it(first encounter) and then Flash just blizted his army of clones before KOing speed blitzing the main one knocking out the rest. Mist also tried to kill him, he didn't WANT to but Barry wasn't backing down to Mist said "ok" and tried to kill him but failed, for one the toxin would have killed him if not for Barry's powers which they stated. Two, in the end he was trying to kill Barry clearly...it's so obvious. Yes, as I said already Mist was trying to kill Barry and getting mad. Flash outran him and dodged him long enough to drain Mist and then oneshotted him by blitzing him.
Flash not just fighting Mist but dodging pure gas form. The oneshotting him once he wore Mist down...
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You're also ignoring the fact that both times were initial meetings just like Superman's FIRST initial encounter with Faora, so your point doesn't work. You're using Flash's jobber encounters vs. faora beating Superman at first when he too was also jobbing and holding back...also it doesn't really matter HOW Flash won, just that he won. He still out ran, and out did Mist via endurance and stamina.
Notice when both didn't hold back I'm pretty sure both Supes and Flash won or were managing. Superman against 2 kryptonians Nam Ek and Faora, Flash beating Mist and MM when he was serious....
It actually is relevant because you're saying CA =hits harder than Barry and is stronger. CA is just a metahuman in his own right, one that I can't see Barry losing to which would mean Barry can hit harder with ease. Then you'd realize not even CA's durability would save him from Mist's poison, unlike Barry's case where he heals fast...I don't agree at all that CA hits harder than Flash. Plus we've seen him fight without the shield and get his butt handed to him by Bucky. Who just has a metal arm and training and above regular human strength. If you're talking without any build up, maybe CA is stronger than Barry but that would be like well if you're removing momentum of Flash's speed, then I guess you'd have to remove CA's injected serum making him a weak human. I'm not saying Flash can definitely hit harder than Superman, but from a historic perspective and comics versions it's very debatable.
Wells said it in the last episode when Felicity was there she asked "how fast can he go" Wells replied "Theoretically he has no limit" or hasn't reached his limit" I forget which but either way confirms what I said, and the last show confirms it...Barry just hasn't moved that fast yet but clearly can and probably will...especially once Zoom comes around he'll have to up his game.
On the last point, Loki isn't oneshotting Flash. Not happening, Loki as I said was having trouble with CA who is a mere human with enhanced strength and a sheild, he let Hulk tag him and KO him for hours later til the Avengers saved the day he was still there just getting up...if Hulk or CA can tag Loki, Flash EASILY can. Period. This isn't even up for debate, to disagree would be to say "well CA and Hulk can tag Flash" I don't see that in a million years happening. Flash also after that scene wasn't really that tired, he did need to gather himself but exhausted means you can barely move. Clearly he was able to move and didn't even try to vibrate through the ice(which he hasn't done yet but will no doubt) Flash doesn't need to use loki's weapon, he can just toss it or speed it leaving it somewhere miles away from Loki where he'd have no clue where it is or simply leave in the ocean then run back before Loki knows what happened to his staff. I don't see loki tagging Flash here, I'm pretty sure if Flash went up against Hulk or CA he'd win yet both gave loki a rough time. I think if anything Loki's lucky if Flash doesn't one shot him by pushing himself harder.
Flash btw has fought a strength guy in the flash zero comic, but soon in the show he will next week he's going to take on someone durable or the week after. And Zoom is coming, can't get much more durable than another speedster in Flash's universe.. There's grodd etc.
@ indomitableregal: Faora MIGHT tag Flash and I stress MIGHT, keep in mind since he's a speedster he can do more with speed than Faora can. All she can do is move fast and hit, big deal. Flash can do that too...and then some.
You're using Superman as an example of her tagging Flash? really? That's a bad example, I know her feats and yes they're good but I think you're lowballing and underestimating Flash's speed. Bullets are slow to Barry....and reverses weather wizard's tornado with ease. Faora is a trained fighter, Clark is not thus his reaction speed at first was poor. In most if not all mediums once Flash and Supes adapt to their speed powers, Flash has always been faster which makes him faster than any kryptonian.
Flash saving multiple people in ridiculously fast time before train crashes again...til Faora does this he can move faster than her.
Mist and MM are still metahumans though which make them more powerful than average people just like Kryptonians are stronger then average people, MM did try to kill Flash by shooting him but Flash dodged it(first encounter) and then Flash just blizted his army of clones before KOing speed blitzing the main one knocking out the rest. Mist also tried to kill him, he didn't WANT to but Barry wasn't backing down to Mist said "ok" and tried to kill him but failed, for one the toxin would have killed him if not for Barry's powers which they stated. Two, in the end he was trying to kill Barry clearly...it's so obvious. Yes, as I said already Mist was trying to kill Barry and getting mad. Flash outran him and dodged him long enough to drain Mist and then oneshotted him by blitzing him.
Flash not just fighting Mist but dodging pure gas form. The oneshotting him once he wore Mist down...
You're also ignoring the fact that both times were initial meetings just like Superman's FIRST initial encounter with Faora, so your point doesn't work. You're using Flash's jobber encounters vs. faora beating Superman at first when he too was also jobbing and holding back...also it doesn't really matter HOW Flash won, just that he won. He still out ran, and out did Mist via endurance and stamina.
Notice when both didn't hold back I'm pretty sure both Supes and Flash won or were managing. Superman against 2 kryptonians Nam Ek and Faora, Flash beating Mist and MM when he was serious....
It actually is relevant because you're saying CA =hits harder than Barry and is stronger. CA is just a metahuman in his own right, one that I can't see Barry losing to which would mean Barry can hit harder with ease. Then you'd realize not even CA's durability would save him from Mist's poison, unlike Barry's case where he heals fast...I don't agree at all that CA hits harder than Flash. Plus we've seen him fight without the shield and get his butt handed to him by Bucky. Who just has a metal arm and training and above regular human strength. If you're talking without any build up, maybe CA is stronger than Barry but that would be like well if you're removing momentum of Flash's speed, then I guess you'd have to remove CA's injected serum making him a weak human. I'm not saying Flash can definitely hit harder than Superman, but from a historic perspective and comics versions it's very debatable.
Wells said it in the last episode when Felicity was there she asked "how fast can he go" Wells replied "Theoretically he has no limit" or hasn't reached his limit" I forget which but either way confirms what I said, and the last show confirms it...Barry just hasn't moved that fast yet but clearly can and probably will...especially once Zoom comes around he'll have to up his game.
On the last point, Loki isn't oneshotting Flash. Not happening, Loki as I said was having trouble with CA who is a mere human with enhanced strength and a sheild, he let Hulk tag him and KO him for hours later til the Avengers saved the day he was still there just getting up...if Hulk or CA can tag Loki, Flash EASILY can. Period. This isn't even up for debate, to disagree would be to say "well CA and Hulk can tag Flash" I don't see that in a million years happening. Flash also after that scene wasn't really that tired, he did need to gather himself but exhausted means you can barely move. Clearly he was able to move and didn't even try to vibrate through the ice(which he hasn't done yet but will no doubt) Flash doesn't need to use loki's weapon, he can just toss it or speed it leaving it somewhere miles away from Loki where he'd have no clue where it is or simply leave in the ocean then run back before Loki knows what happened to his staff. I don't see loki tagging Flash here, I'm pretty sure if Flash went up against Hulk or CA he'd win yet both gave loki a rough time. I think if anything Loki's lucky if Flash doesn't one shot him by pushing himself harder.
Flash btw has fought a strength guy in the flash zero comic, but soon in the show he will next week he's going to take on someone durable or the week after. And Zoom is coming, can't get much more durable than another speedster in Flash's universe.. There's grodd etc.
Sorry I took so long to respond, I've been extremely busy. First things first, I think it's important to keep in mind that this is LIVE ACTION FLASH. In other words, stop speculating based on things he's done in the comics. Fair warning, this will probably be a long post, so bear with me. Flash may be a speedster, but he hasn't shown that he has full mastery of his ability yet, like when he was trying to show off to Felicity running backwards and went flying off the treadmill immediately. I'm not lowballing Flash at all, you're overstating his ability based off the 4 episodes we've seen so far. Yes, bullets are slow to him, but it's not as slow as you make it seem. He easily dodges them, but if he was that much faster they would show the bullets in slow motion and him in real-time (like what they did with Quicksilver in DoFP). I don't know what the point of you showing the Weather Wizard feat was since I already brought it up twice. It's not showing anything new and I've already addressed how fast he had to go to unravel it. I will say that your gif is very limited however since Barry didn't undo the cyclone "with ease". He actually had to push himself.
You're contradicting yourself quite a bit. First you say that all Lieutenant Faora (again, I stress the military rank) can do is move fast and hit, downplaying her abilities. Then you turn around and say she's a trained fighter. You claim that Clark isn't trained, and thus has poor reaction speed (not sure how we got to reaction speed, but fine). However, Flash isn't trained either and you don't bring it up, and at the very least, Clark has always had his abilities. "In most if not all mediums once Flash and Supes adapt to their speed powers, Flash has always been faster which makes him faster than any kryptonian." Once again, this isn't about other mediums, or comic feats, or how they stack up in other shows. You specified the versions. Those are the applicable feats. Are you really saying using Superman is a bad example? The train feat is impressive, as I've already said, but to say Faora isn't as fast as him until she replicates that feat is a bit narrow-minded. Even if you want to say Flash is faster, she is perfectly capable of tagging him, and WHEN she does (which won't take too long), she'll only need to tag him once. Even with his accelerated healing, Flash will be lucky to survive if she does what she did to Superman in the above gifs, particularly the one that ends with him slamming into a bank vault that we can assume is at least as strong as steel.
I've already completely explained the Multiplex (Multiple Man is Marvel) and Mist feats, but fine, let's revisit them. Being metahumans doesn't make them stronger than normal humans, it means they have special abilities. Multiplex threatened the bodyguard and the bodyguard dropped him with one punch. He got up afterwards and jumped him with his clones. I'm well aware of when Mist was trying to kill him so I don't know why you added "it's so obvious". Actually, I don't know why you added that whole section since you added nothing new. As I said, Flash ran through all of Multiplex's clones (again, harming none of them) and blitzed the overexerted and exhausted prime. He defeated Mist in essentially the same way: once Mist was overexerted and exhausted, thus forcing him to go into his solid form, Flash KO'ed him. I'm not ignoring anything. I only brought it up to talk about his durability when he faced Multiplex and his healing factor when he faced Mist. The fact that it was his first encounter isn't really the detail to focus on, and for the record, how he wins is very important. The fact still stands that STAR Labs has helped him beat every "villain of the week", and the one time he didn't listen to them, he had to be rescued by them (Captain Cold). He wasn't completely exhausted, but he was tired and breathing more heavily, and he was on his hands and knees.
Your whole section on Captain America...what? Whether or not the Mist can kill him is irrelevant because Flash survives it based on his accelerated healing and the fact that he was able to run away, not because he's stronger or more durable. We don't even know what would happen to live-action Kryptonians or Asgardians or even Hulk if they were exposed to the gas, so does that now put Flash above them too? You can't physically hurt gas, that's why strength is irrelevant. Again, I never said Cap beats Flash, but is physically stronger. How much momentum would Barry need to replicate the punching bag feat? To simply call Winter Soldier's arm metal is a bit of an understatement since it's a bionic arm that was augmented to have increased strength and reaction speed. At the end of the movie Cap refused to fight him, yet even with the pummeling he was taking, he stayed conscious. Barry wouldn't have because he doesn't have the durability. Again, I don't know why you keep saying he may hit harder than Superman because that is based on what he's done in comics. THIS IS LIVE-ACTION.
I already addressed Wells. He has knowledge from the future, so him saying Barry may not have a limit, or however it was he phrased it, could be based on what he does years from now. As far as Zoom, I would love to see him this season, but it's possible we won't if you consider how long Arrow took to really use Slade as the villain. Unfortunately, anything you say concerning him reaching unfathomable speeds is speculation until we see it (I'm sure he'll be even faster as the series progresses, but how fast we don't know).
Now to the final point, the one that started this whole debate in the first place: Loki. Loki, either through a shot from his scepter, superhuman strength, or the use of his magic, is capable of oneshotting Barry. Again, he had no trouble with Cap and tanked all his blows (including the Shield throw to the face that didn't even make him take a step backward), and tossed him around. Cap was completely outmatched. Then Tony shot him and he gave up, which was his plan from the beginning. Yes, while he was in the middle of monologuing, Hulk grabbed him (not moving nearly as slow as you described him) and thrashed him back and forth on the ground. However, he wasn't nearly as damaged as he could've been, and for the record, was incapacitated, but not KO'ed. Actually, when you look at him at the end, he is merely bruised with a few scrapes. Barry would've DIED. This was never a question of whether Flash could tag Loki, but how much damage he would do, and also could Loki tag him, which I already told you my position on that. Before I continue, you said that Flash didn't bother to vibrate through the ice. This would imply he could've. Again, this hasn't been shown in LIVE-ACTION so you can't use it as an argument. Now back to Loki. I addressed the staff already as well: he may take it and believe that he just gained a significant advantage by disarming Loki, but Loki doesn't need the staff to fight or perform magic. Again, where in LIVE-ACTION has Flash been shown to use his momentum to toss something miles away or run to the ocean and back before someone can even react? STOP SPECULATING. I'm not even gonna touch LIVE-ACTION Flash beating live-action Hulk (because how in the world is he going to hurt Hulk?). Flash WILL NOT oneshot Loki. Like I said, Loki has enough speed, reflexes, intelligence, strength, and skill to tag and KO Flash. His magic is incredibly deceptive and he has shown the ability to be invisible and go completely intangible.Flash won't know how to handle that.
It doesn't matter what he did in the Flash Zero COMIC, but hopefully the show can provide some additional feats for him. I'd personally love an episode with Grodd.
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