MOS Superman vs Ultron(MCU)

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Spider-ManWins

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@christianrapper: not final ultron

final ultron only confronted thor, whom he manhandled with ease, vision who was more or less on par with him, and thats about it. it took the power of an infnity gem, thors lightning, and ironmans repulsor rays to even hurt him

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Keehn93

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#902  Edited By Keehn93

@never_give_up: @spider-manwins: you guys should check out what I think should happen post infinity war. Here's a link; http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/post-infinity-war-mcu-theories-general-thoughts-1668850/

Love to hear your thoughts.

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academic

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@spider-manwins:

Proof they were not?

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Apocalypse3

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#904  Edited By Apocalypse3
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Spider-ManWins

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@academic: read your own post. vibranium tanked hulk, thor, iron man and so on. it took the mind gem to get through him, meaning that the mind gem is stronger than what hulk,thor, iron man could dish out

if loki couldnt even blow up a jet with it, yet vision broke through vibranium, logic concludes one wasnt using it at full power

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WastelandMan

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What you we need to consider is metropolis is much bigger than sokova. The number of damaged buildings is relative

No, what we need to consider is the fact that most of the damage caused to Metropolis was a result of the world engine terraforming NOT from when it exploded........the amount of damage the world engine caused when it exploded only destroyed a couple of buildings.......the explosion Thor tanked completely vaporized far more than that including the hundreds of feet worth of land mass beneath. This is blatantly obvious if you go back and watch the scenes.....

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isaac_clarke

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@isaac_clarke

Which melts at less than 3000 degrees F. Lightning can reach temperatures nearly 20x times that; namely why Leviathans were being blown to bits simply getting hit by said lightning from Thor's hammer.

Lightning that left minimal burns on Tony's armour. Yh, there is no way it is 20x times that.

Tony's suit isn't made of steel, absorbed the lightning from Thor and stood up to Whiplashes attacks in his thinnest armor - said whips were cutting straight through steel cars like butter.

Viranimum in the MCU is inconsistent. One minute it is tanking Mjolnir hits, next Cap is blown back by a bazuka.

That's because an explosion still happened - the shield absorbed it just fine - Cap didn't.

And yet couldn't do much to Tony's armour.

Never happened. The lightning he shot at the portal only injured the space whale. The other time he destroyed the space whale, it was his strike that knocked it down.

Ends blowing holes / making two or three of them explode actually:

Loading Video...

An neither does Thor. Both have subpar speed.

You being confident =/= fact. You are venturing into speculation territory.

Given it's cutting through robots made of Titanium easily enough - and damaging Vibranium - it's safe bet. It be weird if it was more powerful in the scepter than it was in the Vision's head.

The fodder that was being beaten apart by the all the other Avengers?

Point?

He didn't hurt them. He punched Thor multiple times and that was it. That little scuffle hardly constitutes to actual fight where both fighters are going all out. Thor wasn't even using Mjolnir. Not to mention, Thor was stalling for Vision.

Why would he?

Ultron still lacks the strength, striking feats and speed to deal with Clark. The latter will be pummelling Ultron until his armour wears down.

The armor probably won't and you just told me Clark's speed was subpar.

@lunacyde said:

Vibranium isn't unbreakable.

Which doesn't mean MOS Superman can break it. The shield's feats suggest extreme temperatures and blunt force do jack against it.

We don't know what actually happens to planet - but we do see the whole thing engulfed nearly instantly in a giant purple explosion. In Avengers it is the claimed if I recall twice that the cube powers Loki's scepter - so it seems more like these gems already have a connection energy wise outside being forged by the Abstracts.

The different gems have different powers and abilities. Furthermore as I said it's unclear whether Vision can even utilize all of the gems power.

Unclear is bit of a stretch - the gem under Vision was used to do things it was never shown prior to be capable of - like erasing Ultron's mind from the Web and shooting constant streams of laser-beams (and potentially 'sensing' that last Ultronbot's consciousness).

@m_man: That engine destroyed half of metropolis.

By making the buildings collapse under their own weight. Apples to oranges.

The thing is - these two events couldn't be any-less similar. Sokova was ripped apart by shock-waves - In Metropolis buildings all collapses because their weight was going from weightless to increasing some unknown amount.

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khianrobinson123-456

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The fact that ultron went toe to toe with thor is enough to tell me that ultron can beat superman. Also, some people are saying superman can beat the avengers. Thor beats superman on his own because of his magic, greater strength and more power and hulk easily beats superman because, come on, he is the Hulk. Ultron beats superman because superman can't break ultron's adimantium shell. People are saying that ultron hurt the hulk in avengers: age of ultron but I have seen the movie twice and all I remember is hulk punching ultron and throwing him out of the jet. Hulk beats ultron any day of the week. Anyway, ultron beats superman.

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academic

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@khianrobinson123-456:

What ???

Sup at 14 lifted a submerged bus which is greater than any thor strength feet.

The hammer cracks the ice or vibranium, its not his strength

Sup easily beats ultron or thor.

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khianrobinson123-456

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@academic: Superman is not as strong as Thor. Superman lifted a submerged bus......so? Thor has been known to lift and throw islands like it is nothing. He has snapped chains made to hold Olympian gods. Superman is nowhere near that strength level. Also, superman has a vulnerability to magic and thor is all about magic. Thor could just sit there all day while slowly killing superman with his magic lightning. Thor's hammer can't crack vibranium, it's not that strong. Thor can beat superman because of these reasons and if ultron was beating thor in avengers: age of ultron then he can beat superman too.

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Jacthripper

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#911  Edited By Jacthripper

Heat vision?

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academic

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@khianrobinson123-456:

Ummm

This is mos and mcu

Mcu/=/ marvel comics

Mos/=/ dc comics

Bu feats on screen

Sup ftw against thor

Sup ftw against ultron

No magic in mos and no magic from thor in mcu

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ironthor1

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14NC3

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@academic: Superman is not as strong as Thor. Superman lifted a submerged bus......so? Thor has been known to lift and throw islands like it is nothing. He has snapped chains made to hold Olympian gods. Superman is nowhere near that strength level. Also, superman has a vulnerability to magic and thor is all about magic. Thor could just sit there all day while slowly killing superman with his magic lightning. Thor's hammer can't crack vibranium, it's not that strong. Thor can beat superman because of these reasons and if ultron was beating thor in avengers: age of ultron then he can beat superman too.

What are you on about?

Your aware that everyone's discussing the MCU Thor and not the comics Thor, right?

Superman has yet to show any encounters with magic, those Thor feats have never been mentioned and he has never been showed to be capable of any of that.

MOS Superman has way better speed feats than Thor so that argument about him sitting down and shooting his lightning at Clarke, even when the lightning isn't very focused is not going to happen since Clark is easily going to dodge it.

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MAZAHS117

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Superman ftw with moderate to MAYBE high difficulty

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deactivated-6241fa3a1cff5

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Why is that the US always get the films a week later??? I am very curious.

Maybe to test it on the other countries first.

L. D.

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deaditegonzo

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Why are people hyping Ultron so hard? Cap stalemated him one v one. Ultron was a pretty weak villain.

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Heatforce

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@deaditegonzo:Well by that logic Captain America can hang with Superman dow'nchya know :-)

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never give up

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deaditegonzo

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@deaditegonzo:Well by that logic Captain America can hang with Superman dow'nchya know :-)

I guess that's where some peoples thinking comes in. "Ultron being stalemated by Cap doesnt mean Ultron was weak, it means Cap is strong!" Or, and ive seen this a lot already, "Well, he got an upgrade after that!" And im like, so what? The upgrade happened off screen, and he didnt do anything special after getting the upgrade. It was simply mentioned in an off-hand comment by Stark.

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Heatforce

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Look I take Chris Evans' word that MoS superman can bulldoze the avengers XD

I still can’t get over that comment. Dude had no idea he was fanning the flame wars and against his own team no less lol. That said Vision and Thor are the only people from the MCU that Superman may have trouble with (vision is way more iffy but phasing impresses me). Even my favourite character Hulk had teeth knocked out so Ultron gets beaten to death.

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@m_man said:

@marcus_halberstram:

Ultron made him drop his hammer. And he was stalling because clearly he couldn't take him.

The world engine didn't destroy a massive land mass or even a city (just part of it) seeing as how plenty of people were still alive in it....so no it's not enough.

Huh? the world engine was terraforming the entire planet

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@m_man said:

@marcus_halberstram:

Ultron made him drop his hammer. And he was stalling because clearly he couldn't take him.

The world engine didn't destroy a massive land mass or even a city (just part of it) seeing as how plenty of people were still alive in it....so no it's not enough.

Huh? the world engine was terraforming the entire planet

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Super_Mod

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Why is Saren sooooooo nice w/ it? lol I have never seen him lose any debate I've ever seen him involved in on the Battles forum EVER. Well, there goes the "Thor can now city-bust" theory. Damn, I wanted so bad for it to be true too. Damn you Saren!!!! lol jk

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Marcus_Halberstram

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@m_man: He fought Zod after that.

And the world engine was terraforming the entire planet.

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never give up

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Why is Saren sooooooo nice w/ it? lol I have never seen him lose any debate I've ever seen him involved in on the Battles forum EVER. Well, there goes the "Thor can now city-bust" theory. Damn, I wanted so bad for it to be true too. Damn you Saren!!!! lol jk

Lol.

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GXrevolution96

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#927  Edited By GXrevolution96

@heatforce said:

Look I take Chris Evans' word that MoS superman can bulldoze the avengers XD

But I don't think he could. We are talking about all of them at once?! How would he even counter Wonda? You would not only have her messing with his mind, but Thor, Hulk, Vision and Veronica all launching attacks at him simotenaously. He could beat them all individually, but I don't think he stands much of chance against the whole team. Thats a bit much. Fending of both Faora and Nam-Ek was difficult as it is, yet alone two additional opponents with comparable strength and a powerful telepath.

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deaditegonzo

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@heatforce said:

Look I take Chris Evans' word that MoS superman can bulldoze the avengers XD

But I don't think he could. We are talking about all of them at once?! How would he even counter Wonda? You would not only have her messing with his mind, but Thor, Hulk, Vision and Veronica all launching attacks at him simotenaously. He could beat them all individually, sure. But I don't think he stands much of chance against the whole team. Thats a bit much. Fending of both Faora and Nam-Ek was difficult as it is, yet alone two additional opponents with comparable strength and a powerful telepath.

You know Scarlet Witch is one of the more intriguing additions from a combat effectiveness standpoint, and will definitely cause fits for most characters. But other than Black Widow (who has major emotional issues from her past), she didnt ever seem to incap somebody with her Telepathy? It seemed like she could only show people their fears, which a MoS who is having horrifying delusions may make for an even more dangerous opponent.

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GXrevolution96

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#929  Edited By GXrevolution96

@deaditegonzo said:
@gxrevolution96 said:
@heatforce said:

Look I take Chris Evans' word that MoS superman can bulldoze the avengers XD

But I don't think he could. We are talking about all of them at once?! How would he even counter Wonda? You would not only have her messing with his mind, but Thor, Hulk, Vision and Veronica all launching attacks at him simotenaously. He could beat them all individually, sure. But I don't think he stands much of chance against the whole team. Thats a bit much. Fending of both Faora and Nam-Ek was difficult as it is, yet alone two additional opponents with comparable strength and a powerful telepath.

You know Scarlet Witch is one of the more intriguing additions from a combat effectiveness standpoint, and will definitely cause fits for most characters. But other than Black Widow (who has major emotional issues from her past), she didnt ever seem to incap somebody with her Telepathy? It seemed like she could only show people their fears, which a MoS who is having horrifying delusions may make for an even more dangerous opponent.

Good points. Having her definitely brings more versatility to the team. Not to mention, she can apparently fly/hover as shown at the end.

As for her telepathy, she was able to control the minds of all the civilians in city, which was quite impressive. Surely if she tap into Clark's mind, even it was merely to show him a vision of some kind, it would give Thor, Tony, Vision and Hulk enough to incapacitate him.

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deaditegonzo

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@gxrevolution96: Right now, Supes has shown no resistance to mental attacks, and the movie made a point to say that Thor was resistant to telepathy and he still couldnt keep her out, so assuming she had time to tap his brain, I cant argue its a game changer.

But part of me sees this going all Maxwell Lord haha.

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academic

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gingerpenny

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Ultron wins

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WastelandMan

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@supremthor:

@m_man: He fought Zod after that.

And the world engine was terraforming the entire planet.

..................the world engine only increases the mass of the planet, the direct destruction it causes doesn't even compare.

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ironthor1

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khianrobinson123-456

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@academic: No. This is MCU Ultron, not MCU thor. Get your facts straight. Also, thor has used magic in the MCU. He uses magic when he uses his lightning. His lightning is magic.

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khianrobinson123-456

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@14nc3: everyone may be talking about MCU thor, but they shouldn't be. We arw talking about MCU Ultron, not MCU thor. Superman is fast but he is not as fast as lightning so yeah, thor can slowly kill superman with his magic lightning.

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academic

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@khianrobinson123-456:

Nope

Jane has repeatedly stated not magic

Just like selvig

Fyi comic sup stronger than comic thor

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14NC3

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#938  Edited By 14NC3

@khianrobinson123-456 said:

@14nc3: everyone may be talking about MCU thor, but they shouldn't be. We arw talking about MCU Ultron, not MCU thor. Superman is fast but he is not as fast as lightning so yeah, thor can slowly kill superman with his magic lightning.

Stop trying to backpedal from your mistake. You're the one who tried to link in how if Ultron beats Thor and Thor can beat Clark, Ultron beats Superman (flawed logic btw) - Even though you were talking about comic book Thor. I was rebuttling that point.

Superman only has to be fast enough to get out of the way for when he sees Thor prepare to fire at him. Thor always needs to charge up the lightning before firing it. In that time Kal-el can easily just come in and blitz him. And if Thor already had it charged, Kal could just anticipate where it would come from and dodge before he fires, like a bullet timer.

Even then, it is arguable about whether he is fast enough to dodge lightning because he's had plenty of feats in Man of Steel to suggest that. Plus, he has the vulnerability feats to show that he can take a hit of lightning. And again, the 'magic' aspect does not matter because Superman in the DCCU has yet to show vulnerability to it.

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khianrobinson123-456

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@academic: I think thor knows whether his lightning is magic more than Jane or selvig. Also, Thor has snapped chains built to hold Olympian gods, so if your saying superman is stronger than thor, your basically saying he is stronger than Olympian gods, which is crazy.

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SilverPool

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#940  Edited By SilverPool

Lolwut? Why do people think Ultron would rekt? Ultron got absolutely crushed by the Avengers at the end.

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@14nc3: I am not trying to 'backpedal' from my mistake because I have not made a mistake. It is not a flawed logic, it's true. Thor always beats superman. Superman can't blitz thor, thor's durability is too much for superman. No, thor doesn't always need to charge up before striking his lightning. As I said, superman is too slow. What feats has superman done in man of steel to say he is fasr han lightning? Yes, superman can take a hit of lightning but not when it is magic. He doesn't need to show that he is vulnerable to magic in the movies, it is just a well known fact that he is vulnerable to it, any real superman fan would know that.

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Gambit474

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Superman would win the battle, Ultron would win the war. People really overrate MOS Superman, he wasn't that impressive

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deactivated-5c1d15b8899b0

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@saren@jedixman@god_spawn The thread is been derailed. This isn't about MOS Superman vs MC Ultron anymore,so should be locked

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Superman would win the battle, Ultron would win the war. People really overrate MOS Superman, he wasn't that impressive

Neither is Ultron.

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never give up

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Superman wins, Ultron was not impressive at all Superman can eventually put him down without much trouble, and Thor never busted the city, he only cracked the Vibranium, the city was destroyed by an atomic reaction as said by Tony

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Outside_85

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Supes, faster, stronger and has heatvision. Ultron has a durable chassis and an attitude... thats about it.

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#948  Edited By 14NC3

@khianrobinson123-456 said:

@14nc3: I am not trying to 'backpedal' from my mistake because I have not made a mistake. It is not a flawed logic, it's true. Thor always beats superman. Superman can't blitz thor, thor's durability is too much for superman. No, thor doesn't always need to charge up before striking his lightning. As I said, superman is too slow. What feats has superman done in man of steel to say he is fasr han lightning? Yes, superman can take a hit of lightning but not when it is magic. He doesn't need to show that he is vulnerable to magic in the movies, it is just a well known fact that he is vulnerable to it, any real superman fan would know that.

Your logic is flawed. Fights are won differently under different circumstances - powerful power sets/skills can lose against power sets/skills that are weak because they work differently with each other. Ultron analysed Thor's stats when he was taking data in his first scene. Ultron has never seen someone as fast as Superman or as diverse power-set wise.

Thor has little durability feats. He bleeds being stabbed by Loki and can clearly be injured against other foes. He takes hits from Ultron and is injured and also is visibly scratched and bruised when he fights armies of chitauri/ultron bots. Watch the fight against Hulk, and look at how much the hits threw him around and hurt him or the amount of injury he sustained from the fall in the hulk cage. Or look at how much difficulty he has against faster opponents like Iron Man who has long ranged quick attacks, which Clark also has. Kal on the other hand was able to take punches from beings as strong and more skilled than him, punches that created shockwaves. He tanked a world engine, vehicles being thrown at him, crashing into a mountain etc. - all without him having much of any visual damage.

And oh my dear God. Your magic point is completely irrelevant. I know you're new here, but in the battle forums we base fights off of what we've seen from each character - feats they've accomplished, not off of theories. The writers for Man of Steel aren't following the same exact character of Superman in the comics - MoS superman has no freeze breath, his origin is different and his philosophy is different. And Thor has been completely powered down compared to his comic book version. If he hasn't shown any vulnerability to magic, he doesn't have vulnerability to it. How many times do we have to say that the movie version is not the comic book version. I'll repeat it again, if Superman doesn't have ANY showing of magic vulnerability in the movies, he therefore isn't vulnerable, even if he this disadvantage in the comics. We're basing the fight off facts, not theories that the writers are gonna write Kal with this weakness.

Superman has relevant feats to suggest he can dodge lightning- being able to fly to different geographic biomes in seconds, flying from Earth to space in seconds and having incredible combat speed (watch the smallville fight or the zod fight. Thor has never touched these speeds and cannot compete. This factor alone means he loses). Again, it's debatable about him being faster than lightning, but it doesn't matter because Thor needs a lot of time to charge up his lightning attack. In that time, Clark has plenty of time to have him plummeled. Refer back to the earlier point about Thor's durability. Clarks striking power evident in the fights referred to earlier makes the fight a mismatch. Also, the average lightning attack does little damage, like in the Iron Man - Thor fight in Avengers. It gave Iron man's armour a couple of heat scratches.

Add all of these counters to your derpy argument when you used comic-book Thor feats, and yeah, you've made more than one mistake.

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Thorthunder98

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People saying ultron was overpowering Thor at the end of aou, I think at first he may have been outfighting him but when he had Thor in the chokehold I think Thor was just waiting for vision to get into place to knock him out the wall with mjolnir. I think if Vision wasn't there the fight would've been much closer as Thor seemed to be stalling before vision whacked ultron. And also people saying cap's shield damaged ultron and ironman taking on ultron those were not final ultron the only people who fought final ultron were Vision and Thor and Hulk and Scarlet Witch I guess.

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#950  Edited By academic

@spider-manwins:

COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL

Loki with his experience and actually receiving the weapon would know how to use it over vision

Loki mind stone MINIMALLY DAMAGED quinjet and a helicopter= NOT impressive

Vision knocks ultron anout 6 ft= NOT impressive

Vision literally taking SECONDS to melt ultron clones in the air =NOT impressive

Sorry

Thise are rhe facts

Infi ity stones=HYPERBOLE

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SUP HEAT VISION>>>>>>>>mind stone