Mortal Kombat vs Metal Gear

@onilordasmodeus: you made this long speech filled with opinion rather stated fact. Nowhere has Shao Kahn ever spur of the moment absorb souls . Ever. Even when he was dispose by Shang Tsung and Quan Chi in Deadly Alliance. Oh wait, I'm sure Raiden protected their Souls from this world level soul sucker. Then you show soul sucking of individual foes after they are beaten or give up. Not convincing. Pretty mediocre.

@nickzambuto: until I see some solid proof or facts, i do not think Raiden is beyond Mach 2.

@cadencev2:

Are you using ONLY cutscenes from MK9?

And which Subzero are you using? At the end of 9, i believe there was only Cyber Subzero (Kuai Liang) and Noob Saibot (Bi-Han).

I think putting a title on characters that don't have a stated definite limit is dumb. We can hypothesis Raiden is mach 2, mach 5, mach negative 768, whatever, the important thing is that he can sprint up vertical towers, cut down hailstorms of gunfire, and jump across missiles. If we put him in a battle with another character, we have to ask if said character can replicate those feats, not come up with complex calculations to determine exactly how many miles per hour they can run.

@nickzambuto: everything you just stated is Mach 2-3 which is consistent with what sundown stated. See how statements and feats come together?c@sachmoo: only cutscenes as proof, no gameplay mechanics.

This is extreme spite. Anyone in MK team solostomp.

The difference is the ease of and context of how Raiden performs these feats.

Dodging one, mach 2 missile would mean mach 2 reaction time. Raiden however, was capable of perceiving a flurry of these missiles as if they were traveling in slow motion, and effortlessly leap across them as a makeshift bridge.

And regardless, you missed my point. I don't care about mach 2 or 3 or whatever, what we should be discussing is whether or not anyone on the MK team can replicate these feats.

MK team cannot, at all. Mostly it is the same MK fans that are posting how they win somehow

Like so.

It's ok (I guess), you don't want to accept facts like many others on CV. Whether I show you the truth with pictures and/or lore, you discount these facts, calling them opinion, rather than just accepting what you see, and following the evidence as it is laid out. In your opinion (it seems) MK looses this fight just because you don't want them to win, regardless of that though, Kahn still stomps the MGS team in this thread...and the facts back me up.

If you don't like this outcome, I suggest you change the OP.

Also, FYI: In Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, when Shang and Quan "killed" Kahn...that wasn't Shao Kahn...

"My defeat at the hands of the Earthrealm warriors had left me weakened, and my dominance in Outworld was waning. Kitana's forces were closing in. It was only a matter of time before they would overrun my stronghold. Using a powerful magical item retrieved long ago by my minions, I created a clone of myself to draw my enemies' attention while I escaped into the wilds...." - Shao Kahn's bio in MK Deception.

Shang Tsung and Quan Chi killed Shao Kahn's clone in the beginning of Deadly Alliance. Kahn was off recovering still, and plotting his return. When he returned though...

"Shao Kahn then commanded me to aid him in an assault on occupying Edenian forces, in an effort to retake his stronghold. United once more, Shao Kahn, Goro and I laid waste to all who stood in our way! In a flurry of brute strength and magic, we forced our way up to the throne room. The door was reinforced by some magical spell, but it was no match for our combined might. With a final swing of Shao Kahn's hammer, the door was breached, and Shao Kahn was Emperor of Outworld once more." - Shang Tsung MK Armageddon bio.

"Posing as the Edenian wench Kitana, I gained command of her army and with it took control of Shao Kahn's fortress - all in the name of "peace." I had planned to continue my charade until the Edenian forces could be corrupted enough to follow me as Mileena, the true conqueror of Outworld. But my plans were foiled when the fortress was attacked - Shao Kahn had returned! And he was not alone! As I watched the initial assault from the safety of the imperial balcony, I recognized the two warriors who aided him: Goro, Prince of the Shokan, and Shang Tsung, wretched Sorcerer of Darkness - my creator. They crushed all who defended the stronghold. I hid in the throne room and commanded the Edenian mages to cast a defensive ward upon the main door. It was of no use. Their magic was nothing compared to the might of Shao Kahn. He shattered the door and strode in as confidently as ever." - Mileena MK Armageddon bio.

Kahn fights and wins against armies with minimal aid and no prep without soul stealing. With his magic he is pretty much unstoppable, even against MGS cyborgs. Kahn wins this fight single handedly.

@onilordasmodeus: So your proof of Shao Kahn awesome is again where his suppose great power was so weak that he had to make a clone and run away :)

Got it.

I really do not care who wins this, I am arguing with Nickzambuto about the MG Cyborg speeds.

I just think both you and Nick are full of crap with overblowing characters.

I love! how you keep twisting my posts to trying an make it seem like I said something that I didn't. The second half of my last post was to solely show that Shang and Quan didn't beat Shao Kahn at that time, so your example of how "mediocre" he was doesn't apply. You keep brushing past the facts to assert some "truth" that fits the agenda you want to push, but the real fact of the matter is Kahn solos via soul drain.

While you can, and I'm sure will, try to continue to downplay and disregard the posts I've made, all the...

...in the world can change the truth.

Like I said before, change the OP if you don't like this outcome. Next time do some research before you just willy-nilly throw a character into a thread.

Well.

Your still my bro though.

@onilordasmodeus said:

I love! how you keep twisting my posts to trying an make it seem like I said something that I didn't. The second half of my last post was to solely show that Shang and Quan didn't beat Shao Kahn at that time, so your example of how "mediocre" he was doesn't apply. You keep brushing past the facts to assert some "truth" that fits the agenda you want to push, but the real fact of the matter is Kahn solos via soul drain.

While you can, and I'm sure will, try to continue to downplay and disregard the posts I've made, all the...

...in the world can change the truth.

Like I said before, change the OP if you don't like this outcome. Next time do some research before you just willy-nilly throw a character into a thread.

So you really have nothing but opinionated, and overblown off panel feats. Got it :)

<3

If you really look at my posts, I don't think I have posted any opinions at all. So if what you mean by "opinionated, and overblown off panel feats" is "factual, 'on' panel feats," the yes.

I mean really, why is it that our little back and forth here has me posting facts backed by evidence, while you are the one only spouting opinion? And, why does it seem as if your opinion is the one that is off the scale (rather under the scale), while I've only shown what Shao Kahn has done, and what he can do? You are choosing to brush past reality, in order to super impose your own opinions that don't accurately fit with the evidence.

Just accept the truth and move on. Shao Kahn is a dangerous adversary who can eat souls from across a planet. Deal with it. :o)

Using only cut scenes is tough. But Which Sub zero are you using here?

Also: @onilordasmodeus This shows Shao Khan using what looks like soul steal on a no name injured guy.

I do not have to deal with anything as you can prove anything :)

Just your MK fan bias is showing and that is all :)

All right if its stated to be lightning I will accept it for now but I am a little skeptical that revolver ocelot can draw his gun, and that a few bullets have the chance to leave the barrel of the gun before lightning hits him...

@sachmoo: Yeah, and thanks for the vid; I also posted stills of that scene in an earlier post.

Also, regardless if he wants to try and restrict the MK characters to MK9 only, for Subzero there are all his feats and powers in the MK Mythologies game as well. In that game he had a move call "Polar Blast", similar to this...

...where he flash froze the air around him, completely freezing everyone in his general vicinity. Imagine that move coupled with the MK team's striking power, and/or Kahn's TK (if we are going to rule out his soul drain). Or even just think about it in conjunction with Liu Kang's and Scorpion's teleportation, even his own teleportation. By mixing and matching the various abilities that the MK team wields, some insane combinations can come out of it.

Also, I'd like to make the point that Reptile is a bullet-timer easy, and Subzero, probably the most middle of the road of the MK team in speed, beat Reptile heads up. Sub, Scorp, and Liu can easily keep up with the MGS team from what I've seen, as could Kahn with his magic unleased.

All that being said though, the MGS team is packing some serious speed and fire power, so it's not like I think the MK team dominates any of them at all (save for Kahn via soul drain). IMO the most dangerous weapon they wield are their HF blades, and I don't think anyone on the MK team has anything to match one of those up close.

@nickzambuto, do you mind posting some stuff showing off the speed that you are talking about with the MGS team? I know in MGS4 that Raiden was pretty fast, and I realize in MGR Raiden was made to look insanely fast in the QTE sections, but I've never seen anything saying that those fights, specifically the ones in MGS4, were "slowed down" from what they actually were.

In the OG games, MGS2 mainly, characters like Grey Fox, who are supposedly on par with Raiden, though they were fast, they were never Mach anything fast. Snake and BB may have great reaction times, but I would only characterize them as on par with those on the MK team, someone his is insanely skill and experience, not semi-precog like Spiderman (not that you were making that direct comparison).

@cadencev2: Sure.

Lol Cadence is such a troll ;p.

How are we getting that the Metal Gear Solid characters are Mach+ Speed? Because I have yet to see any convincing evidence! I hope we can not trying to beat the proverbial dead horse (The Railgun showing) again.

@onilordasmodeus:

Well, if the MK team is restricted to only MK9 cut scenes (which makes a HUGE difference) than those pics can't be used. That's what I am trying to figure out. AND WHICH SUBZERO haha.

Can't answer the question without having all the variables.

Yes I can be :)

All those pics came from MK9 cut scenes, and which subzero matters very little. Kuai Liang is said to be every bit as powerful as his brother, if not more so, and that was from his debut on. In fact, Kuai has showcased more finesse in his powers than his Older brother has if you take everything into account; Ice walls for one, staying within the MK9 barrier, "gut busting" Ice grenades for two, but that is going "beyond" MK9.

Agreed about Kuai. But thats my point, we really got no feats from Bi-Han as Subzero, so if he ment him then he has no business here.

Not to be a jackass, but i also think he just put names in there without thinking it through. Thats why we got incomplete info to answer the battle.

He did it to troll, that much is clear.

Big Boss can dodge bullets just by hearing them fire behind him. And again, he's the slowest one here.

And the Rail Gun feat has yet to be disproved FYI. It's a solid mach 5 reaction time showing, possibly higher; of course Snake has other feats too, the Rail Gun is just one of his best which is probably why you see it so much.

Ocelot's real (speed) feats are killing groups of soldiers before they can react and cutting down a horde of killer bees by spinning his revolvers, etc. The lightning feat is super high-end, I try not to rely on it in debates too much and only mention it a couple times as sort of an ace-in-the-hole if you will. It's indicative of his skill, but not definite.

Sure. Just a quick clarification first, Gray Fox is not on par with Raiden. Progression of technology has Raiden as his superior by a very wide margin. Also Gray Fox wasn't in MGS2, that was Olga Gurlukovich posing as the Ninja, and Frank is far faster than her.

The Cyborg Ninjas are indeed super/hypersonic in combat speed, and both Snakes have the reflexes to match them. They consistently make movements and attacks that a normal human wouldn't even notice, let alone have the chance to react to. Case in point;

Keep in mind, every single bullet from that Assault Rifle is traveling at mach 2, and Frank acts like they aren't even there.

In Ashley Wood's IDW comics interpretation of the same scene, Gray Fox blitzes by a group of soldiers and cuts one so quickly and precisely, that the victim himself doesn't even realize his brain has been severed until he actually moves and his head falls off.

Yet here's Solid Snake fighting and eventually defeating the Ninja, successfully dodging each and every one of his blows.

In Raiden's fight against the Gekko, what people tend to overlook is the fact that Old Snake and Naomi begin fleeing at 2:10 before the fight begins, yet after Raiden has already wrapped everything up at 4:55, they're not even 15 feet away.

Later in the game when Raiden battles Gekko in real-time, he defeats them all in less than one second.

As for Snake, he was capable of reacting to and dodging a Rail Gun projectile, even in the body of a 70 year old man. Said projectile is beyond hypersonic, meaning Snake has mach 5 reaction time at the least, which is consistent with his battles against Cyborg Ninjas and Vamp.

@nickzambuto: Yea but he fired several revolver bullets before the lightning hit...Don't revolver bullets move at like mach 1? Lightning is over mach 14,000.... I don't think his bullets would have the time to leave the barrel.

Fair point.

@nickzambuto: That Railgun showing was debunked already, and denying it doesn't help either.

What???? I thought we came to an agreement about mach 5 in the other thread?????

@funsiized said:

No, not even close. Fortune's Rail Gun had a power output of

10 mega joules, mathematically that would put her rail gun shots at around mach 2 or maybe a bit faster, which is around the same level as a machine gun. It would need to be a heavier round too since a lighter round wouldn't be able to bust through metal crates like Fortune's rail gun.

But remember Snake dodged the rail gun shot from a long distance, at least 1000+ feet, it would of been more impressive had the rail gun shot been closer like 20 feet from him. Most peak human characters can dodge point blank machine gun fire.

The problem here is that no one here is intelligent enough to mathematically calculate kinetic output when it's a simple formula, instead people like to pull numbers or terms out of their asses like mach 20 or hyper sonic.

Most Metal Gear humans are below peak human, for example Snake is suppose to be a genetically enhanced soldier yet he wasn't able to break a pair of hand cuffs. Better yet Vamp, who's one of the fastest MGS Character pre Revengance has shown that he's unable to bullet time. He uses an ability to read muscle movements and when Raiden's skull suit made it hard to read his muscles, Vamp ended up getting grazed in the face, Vamp has also blitzed Snake BTW.

Better yet, Vamp got pegged in the four head with a sniper bullet, which should be around the same velocity as the rail gun shot, literally right in the face.

The only people who would say something ridiculous like hyper sonic are either fanboys are not intelligent enough to perform mathematical equations. Which unfortunately is a majority of users on this site.

If you think it's mach 5 then one of you didn't do the math or at least didn't do it correctly.

10 Megajoules for Fortune's rail gun, You need to divide the weight and square root it, you get a bit over mach 2, I'm not speculating or throwing numbers around either, I'm using an actual mathematical formula and information given in the game.

MK stomps so hard. Scorpion alone can solo the Metal Gear verse.