Morningstar Vs Prep Team

Lucifer Morningstar

Vs

Prep Team: Dr.Doom, The Maker, John Constantine, Composite Brainiac, Thanos, Darkseid, Stark, Hank Pym and Bruce Banner.

*.Win by Death or Incap.

*.Team are Morals Off and Lucifer is In Character.

*.DC are New52/Pre/Post Crisis.

*.Team get 10 years prep.

*.Fight in Los Angeles.

Prep Team

How the hell is anyone supposed to(in any way practically) call this?

Prep Team stomps.

@neongamewave: @green_skar:

@neongamewave: @green_skar: reasons?

I don't understand how nigh-omnipotents lose to prep - unless they want to - as they will almost certainly know it's happening. That said Thanos has the feats to solo.

No reed Richards???? Well team anyways

Thanos solos .

@dablackswrd: The Maker is(A) Reed Richards.

Who's feats are(arguably) more impressive.

@terrortuga: reasons?

1. Lucifer is above the concept of death.
2. He'd know of this team preparing beforehand due to him being nigh-omniscient, if not omniscient.

HOTU or IG .

@terrortuga: HOTU=Non Canon and IG=Not enough power

Isn't there multiple IG's ? Why an't they get more ?

HOTU is non-canon and Thanos basically stumbled upon it.

If the team is allowed to prep unopposed then they would win handily.

Given a 10 years period some of these guys could take him out alone.

Team

@terrortuga: 1 Bullet or a hundred bullets it still does not matter to a Tank. All the other(non 616) IG's are only Universal.

Prep Team takes this.

@knightsofdarkness2: @claymore1998: @newblood2333: Reasons?

@parichithayerakala:

God Doom alone will be a problem but Thanos with 10 years of prep could easily have access to the Infinity Gauntlet, Cosmic Cube, HOTU and etc. Darkseid could get his hands on the Anti-Life Equation, Soulfire and etc. Constantine alone could handle Lucy when it comes to just manipulation and I`m sure he could summon the Spectre or get help from Dr. Fate and Composite Brainiac could be a problem.

@parichithayerakala: Thanos is the deciding factor. 10 years is a ton of prep for him

HOTU is non-canon and Thanos basically stumbled upon it, in other words, not a prep feat. Are you saying Constantine can manipulate the Devil himself? Spectre wouldn't pose a threat to Lucifer.

@neongamewave:

1)God Doom does not have the feats to suggest that he can stand up to Lucy.

2)HOTU=Non Canon and IG, Cosmic Cube etc., are toys compared to Lucy's power.

3)Anti-Life and Soul Fire are not on the same level as Lucy.

4)John cant manip Lucy since they both are pretty much equal.

5)Spectre already got easily defeated by Michael without using Demiurge while Lucy was going blow for blow with Michael using Demiurge. Fate is bellow Spec.

6)Why would Brainiac be a problem.

That`s arguable but it wouldn`t matter considering Thanos with a Cosmic Cube, the Infinity Gauntlet and maybe even the Ultimate Nullifier (Doom could also get this) could prove to be a challenge also being the Avatar of Death is going to factor in somewhere. He`s done it before to beings like First of the Fallen and he knows of Lucifer Morningstar as well. Spectre`s power-levels vary, the one that fought Michael wasn`t an Unbound Spectre also I think Dr. Fate can play a pretty big part here thanks to Constantine`s connections. And that`s not including composite Braniac, Hank Pym, Tony Stark, Darkseid, Bruce Banner and The Maker.

1) God Doom`s implied power is enough to say that he can make a difference in this match and considering you gave him 10 years of prep, I don`t see why he couldn`t absorb the Beyonder`s power.

2) Fair enough. But those are not the only items that Thanos can get his hands on.

3) Not true. Darkseid at his best was able to go toe to toe with the Source and that was just Soulfire Darkseid.

4) For the most part but John with prep is a different character similar to The Doctor (who I also think could potentially beat Lucy) most of the time John doesn`t have prep to do what he does.

5) That wasn`t an Unbound Spectre though also the Lucy vs Michael fight has context their basically treated as equals with different roles within the DC universe.

6) Because weaker forms of Braniac have posed as a threat to the universe and since he`s working with other over the top prep-master level characters that will only prove to be a much more bigger factor.

This is not including Hank, Banner, Stark and The Maker either who only make the chance of this being a stomp more evident. Also, I know what Morningstar is 100% capable of.

@parichithayerakala: @neongamewave: Wouldn't Doom with Pre Retcon Beyonder's power be enough? I see him being able get this this with less prep than 10 years. Pre Retcon Beyonder is stronger than current Doom IMO.

I agree and I mentioned this as being a good probability.

@neongamewave: God Doom's Implied Power cannot be taken into account as there is a significant difference between the original and the secondary as evidenced by Pre Ret Beyonder and Beyondoom. Cosmic Cube, IG, UN are all Universal only while Lucy has tanked Multiversal blasts without a scratch, also he is above Death itself. First of The Fallen is nowhere Lucy's intelligence or power. Lucy has tanked and manipulated the Demiurge itself which makes up everything in DC Anti-Life, Soulfire even Darkseid himself. Michael has fought and defeated both Jim Spec and Aztar(Unbound) Spectre, also actually the greatest feat Spec has is fighting Michael.

@newblood2333: @neongamewave: Pre Retcon=Non Canon.

Either way it doesn`t matter considering he could add to that power thanks to his prep-time. With prep, Thanos would collect all items possible to make himself a challenge to Lucy and those few items alone will power him by quite a lot also each of them have access to time manipulation in some shape or form especially with prep time. I agree, but these characters with prep can make themselves into multiversal level characters they`ve been able to reach universal level without this much prep time. Darkseid taking on the Source is comparable though considering the Source`s connection to The Presence and the Anti-Life Equation being added onto that power makes all the difference. When was this? Do you have scans? I recall Michael fighting The Spectre only once also you did not address my point about John Con, and him being able to manipulate characters who are far above him.

I haven't been following it too much recently, but isn't Secret Wars a patchwork of all the remaining universes that were in the multiverse? Whatever is left of the multiverse is now down to one reality created by Doom, right? Wouldn't this make all timelines Canon?

@mysticmedivh: Yes or no? Like I said, I haven't been following the story of late so maybe you will know.

It's still technically canon. The Beyonder has since then been depowered because I'm guessing that Marvel didn't want someone who can $h!t on multiverses and make all of their cosmics and abstracts look like fodder.

Any feat performed by "Pre-Retcon" Beyonder is still canon. It always has been. It happened in canon and there is nothing that says it isn't.

However, his power changed after Secret Wars as I mentioned in post #34.

@mysticmedivh: Gotcha.. Like always, thanks for clearing things up!

I will go with the Morningstar in a surprise victory.

10 years prep is too long a span. Not to mention you are already aware, contrary to what you mentioned, I am a firm believer that IG alone would handily suffice to beat Lucifer.

Definitely not.

Being the Avatar of Death doesn't mean anything to a being who is above Death itself. Lucifer is much, much more powerful than FotF. I don't think Constantine and Lucifer have ever met, can you provide a scan?

Rather than saying definitely not, how about we have a debate. Perhaps you will change your mind, perhaps you could change mine.

Try me, you might be surprised.

Lucifer and First of the Fallen have neither met nor interacted. First of the Fallen has never been referred to in Lucifer series either. So I am unsure to how you are claiming Lucifer is much, much more powerful. Not to mention we've never seen Fallen's true power either.

I will go with the Morningstar in a surprise victory.

Agreed. I think there's a common misconception about his power because Lucifer is one of those guys that's so powerful that he doesn't really have to show it off very often. I can't tell you how many times ultra-powerful entities bow at his feet rather than risk any sort of confrontation where Lucifer would be able to prove his power. His feats are contextual and via statements more often than not, but in cases such as characters so powerful, like the Presence, Michael, PR Beyonder, etc., it is often just implied that they are too powerful to even challenge. How would you even fight God, you know? You'd have to be able to even perceive reality on that same level.

I'm comparing them how we compare characters on the Battles forum.

Gonna sit here and enjoy the show. If anyone needs any info on Lucifer be sure to ask.

First of the fallen is a pretty cool name

Would you be able to name me anyone who's done that to Lucifer? Because apart from Endless that has never happened, at least not to the best of my knowledge, unless you consider the triumvirate from hell as supremely powerful being in question and even then it was only the second and third of the fallen.

In the same vein, some of the most powerful being did exactly that when Warlock had the IG. In fact, bar Living Tribunal, once IG was powered up, all abstracts were just blown apart.

I am not sure why abstract idea are important, but if so IG is power of a single being that existed before anything, and it was this being power that created everything. No other name than god fits the description, as it was plainly said in the comics too.

Why would IG implied power be any less? At least you seem to acknowledge feat wise IG is ahead, or at least I presume you did.

However, should you like to have a proper debate, you are more than welcome.

Death of the Endless makes more sense than just death in general which would include Marvel`s Death but it was a point I just wanted to make and Thanos has prep also. First of the Fallen hasn`t met Lucifer Morningstar but FotF is quite powerful but my point was that John knows of Lucifer. In the New 52 he met him in I....Vampire #19.

And John does exist in the Lucifer solo series.

Presumably based on feat. Would you be kind enough to do the same with IG and point to me what feat from Lucifer is better than? Else isn't that biased assessment. If Lucifer is more powerful, in fact, much more powerful than First of Fallen as you claim based on lack of feat, I presume the same should hold true for IG. I have told you this before, and I can repeat it, every single feat you can show me of Lucifer I'll match it with equivalent feat from Eternity himself. A being that was blown away as a side effect of IG being powered up. A being that Adam Warlock was able to defeat in 1 move.

@claymore1998: And the endless cycle begins with that logic.

All I'm saying you can point to lower beings who done similar acts and so can the opponent and the circle goes on.

All threads with Lucifer Michael, Beyonder, and metafiction and toonforce characters are hassle to debate