Morgoth vs Thor

- Morgoth from lotr and this is Rune King Thor

- Morgoth has Grond and Thor has Mjolnir

- Morals off, who wins and why?

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

Really? I have a thread Sauron vs Odin and everyone agreed that even Thor could beat Sauron, I don't think that difference in power between Morgoth and Sauron is that great

@BigCimmerian: It is, its HUGE..i reckon the Thunderer has a chance, he has better feats by a mile and fought stronger opposition.

Morgoth for me.

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

Really? I have a thread Sauron vs Odin and everyone agreed that even Thor could beat Sauron, I don't think that difference in power between Morgoth and Sauron is that great

Then you just proved that you know nothing about Morgoth....... He is on different level from Sauron

Morgoth was second in power being only below God (Eru illuvatar)

Morgoth was the most powerful of the valar (a race of gods. Ex: Varda a valar can create entire constelations with ease and morgoth is much much more powerful than her)

Morgoth's warhammer (Grond) can shatter the earth.

Morgoth was said to escape the timeless viod (a dimension beyond reality and time) and was going to destroy the sun and moon, only on his way to earth...

Morgoth is truly immortal, if you kill him his essence will remain no matter what.......

So you tell me is this a battle?

Morgoth destroys Thor

To be fair, Morgoth's personal power varied. Towards the end of the First Age, he had diffused so much of it into his minions and the Earth itself that it limited his abilities (for example, his ability to shift forms). This limitation was severe enough that he had some trepidation about meeting Fingolfin (A Noldorin Elf) in personal combat. I'd still give him the edge, even at this point, but I think Thor would give a better showing than most people would think.

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

Really? I have a thread Sauron vs Odin and everyone agreed that even Thor could beat Sauron, I don't think that difference in power between Morgoth and Sauron is that great

Then you just proved that you know nothing about Morgoth....... He is on different level from Sauron

Morgoth was second in power being only below God (Eru illuvatar)

Morgoth was the most powerful of the valar (a race of gods. Ex: Varda a valar can create entire constelations with ease and morgoth is much much more powerful than her)

Morgoth's warhammer (Grond) can shatter the earth.

Morgoth was said to escape the timeless viod (a dimension beyond reality and time) and was going to destroy the sun and moon, only on his way to earth...

Morgoth is truly immortal, if you kill him his essence will remain no matter what.......

So you tell me is this a battle?

I admit that I know nothing about Morgoth, one of the reasons I created this thread was to learn something about him, what about Sauron at full power with the One Ring against Morgoth with Grond? And do you mean that he could shatter entire planet Earth? I guess I'll have to amp Thor to Rune King Thor level

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

Really? I have a thread Sauron vs Odin and everyone agreed that even Thor could beat Sauron, I don't think that difference in power between Morgoth and Sauron is that great

Then you just proved that you know nothing about Morgoth....... He is on different level from Sauron

Morgoth was second in power being only below God (Eru illuvatar)

Morgoth was the most powerful of the valar (a race of gods. Ex: Varda a valar can create entire constelations with ease and morgoth is much much more powerful than her)

Morgoth's warhammer (Grond) can shatter the earth.

Morgoth was said to escape the timeless viod (a dimension beyond reality and time) and was going to destroy the sun and moon, only on his way to earth...

Morgoth is truly immortal, if you kill him his essence will remain no matter what.......

So you tell me is this a battle?

I admit that I know nothing about Morgoth, one of the reasons I created this thread was to learn something about him, what about Sauron at full power with the One Ring against Morgoth with Grond? I guess I'll have to amp Thor to Rune King Thor

Still Sauron doesn't even get close to morgoth. RKT is on pars with odin or what? I know he was pretty powerful.

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

Really? I have a thread Sauron vs Odin and everyone agreed that even Thor could beat Sauron, I don't think that difference in power between Morgoth and Sauron is that great

Then you just proved that you know nothing about Morgoth....... He is on different level from Sauron

Morgoth was second in power being only below God (Eru illuvatar)

Morgoth was the most powerful of the valar (a race of gods. Ex: Varda a valar can create entire constelations with ease and morgoth is much much more powerful than her)

Morgoth's warhammer (Grond) can shatter the earth.

Morgoth was said to escape the timeless viod (a dimension beyond reality and time) and was going to destroy the sun and moon, only on his way to earth...

Morgoth is truly immortal, if you kill him his essence will remain no matter what.......

So you tell me is this a battle?

I admit that I know nothing about Morgoth, one of the reasons I created this thread was to learn something about him, what about Sauron at full power with the One Ring against Morgoth with Grond? I guess I'll have to amp Thor to Rune King Thor

Still Sauron doesn't even get close to morgoth. RKT is on pars with odin or what? I know he was pretty powerful.

Rune King Thor is several times more powerful then Odin, he is nearly omniscient and is much wiser than Odin, he defeated race of gods which used Asgardians as toys

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

Really? I have a thread Sauron vs Odin and everyone agreed that even Thor could beat Sauron, I don't think that difference in power between Morgoth and Sauron is that great

Then you just proved that you know nothing about Morgoth....... He is on different level from Sauron

Morgoth was second in power being only below God (Eru illuvatar)

Morgoth was the most powerful of the valar (a race of gods. Ex: Varda a valar can create entire constelations with ease and morgoth is much much more powerful than her)

Morgoth's warhammer (Grond) can shatter the earth.

Morgoth was said to escape the timeless viod (a dimension beyond reality and time) and was going to destroy the sun and moon, only on his way to earth...

Morgoth is truly immortal, if you kill him his essence will remain no matter what.......

So you tell me is this a battle?

I admit that I know nothing about Morgoth, one of the reasons I created this thread was to learn something about him, what about Sauron at full power with the One Ring against Morgoth with Grond? I guess I'll have to amp Thor to Rune King Thor

Still Sauron doesn't even get close to morgoth. RKT is on pars with odin or what? I know he was pretty powerful.

Rune King Thor is several times more powerful then Odin, he is nearly omniscient and is much wiser than Odin, he defeated race of gods which used Asgardians as toys

I would still say morgoth can pull it off. But I'm not sure...... It could easily go the other way in thor's favor.

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@kingkronos said:

@BigCimmerian: What? Thor vs Morgoth?

Know the facts before posting a battle like that. Morgoth wins in an uber stomp

Really? I have a thread Sauron vs Odin and everyone agreed that even Thor could beat Sauron, I don't think that difference in power between Morgoth and Sauron is that great

Then you just proved that you know nothing about Morgoth....... He is on different level from Sauron

Morgoth was second in power being only below God (Eru illuvatar)

Morgoth was the most powerful of the valar (a race of gods. Ex: Varda a valar can create entire constelations with ease and morgoth is much much more powerful than her)

Morgoth's warhammer (Grond) can shatter the earth.

Morgoth was said to escape the timeless viod (a dimension beyond reality and time) and was going to destroy the sun and moon, only on his way to earth...

Morgoth is truly immortal, if you kill him his essence will remain no matter what.......

So you tell me is this a battle?

Do you mean crush entire planet Earth?

Rune Lord Thor.

Bump

Morgoth would be an interesting fight for the odinson, but Thor's feats just crap all over Melkor's. Even at his best, Morgoth was a mountain breaker, Thor is a mountain breaker at least and can go up to planetoid smasher, Galactus harmer, Winds of a thousand worlds unleasher, and planet sized snake lifter. Morgoth would put up a fight, but Thor would show him just how badly Mjolnir outclasses Grond.

Morgoth being stronger than the Valar who can create constelations doesn't say anything. Creating and destroying are 2 very different things. It sounds very impressive and it is one of the reasons people are quick to praise a character who can do that but, their are lots of gods in fiction who where able to create stars and whatnot only to be beaten by a lesser being. Shenron from DBZ is able to restore planets yet he was killed of by Piccolo in DB as a example.

Morgoth destroying the Sun and Moon sounds impressive but is their more information as how he could have done it? Lets say Thor can't destroy Earth but can cause heavy damage to it, so Thor can destoy Earth over an period of time, is it been stated that Morgoth could oneshot the Sun?

How is Morgoths durability? He supposedly can shatter the Earth with his hammer but how well does he stack up against a blast that can nuke a planet, will he shrug it off like nothing or is it lights out for him. How is his speed, what kind of magical abilities does he possess to keep Thor down, does he have great combat exp.

Don't want to hate on the guy but there are plety of characters out their who can do these amzing things like creating planets and have magic arm braclets that can shatter the Earth, but that won't save you when you have zero strength feats, move like a slug and can't tank for shit against somebody like Thor.

@Lord_Johnathan: @niBBit:

Seriously. Will thor survive if he went against TOAA? All his feats are literally worth nothing here. Morgoth went against eru and was still well-to-do. You've to give him some credit.

This is like putting thor against an evil pre-retcon beyonder.

@PrinceAragorn1: God is just a title. When Morgoth went up against Eru (God) what do you mean about *well-to-do* do you mean that Morgoth did well when he fought against Eru? If you mean that Morgoth fought against Eru then thats really silly because an omnipotent being has no equal, there is no such thing as God having a fight.

@niBBit said:

@PrinceAragorn1: God is just a title. When Morgoth went up against Eru (God) what do you mean about *well-to-do* do you mean that Morgoth did well when he fought against Eru? If you mean that Morgoth fought against Eru then thats really silly because an omnipotent being has no equal, there is no such thing as God having a fight.

I agree. There is no such thing as God having a fight. But we're talking about something that went against the supreme power's wishes, corrupted his creations, hence opposing him directly, and he's being put against an asgardian? Isn't that retarded?

I would've thought ok if it was myth thor, as they'd have been on the same status, but putting a comic version isn't really a good idea.

And about that "God is a title", the difference is, "God is THE title." It's not like captain/commander or anything. I really don't remember except PR beyonder and 1/2 others pulling off what morgoth did..

I don't understand how Morgoth beats Thor when Morgoth was badly hurt by mere elf.

There is no such thing as going against the wishes against a SUPREME BEING, God(Eru) is omipotent, omniscient omni whatever there is no such thing as going against Gods wishes, if somebody managed that than the answer is very simple God (Eru) isn't a Supreme Being.

Comparing Morgoth and Beyonder can only been done if Morgoth did what the Beyonder did. Did Morgoth warp reality to such ridiculous degree in witch he killed a abstract/idea/fundament like killing Death, Beyonder had the power to destoy the Marvel Universe countless times over and beings such as the Living Tribunal being powerless to do anything against it. Has Morgoth destroyed entire galaxies/multiverses?

Morgoth (as i'm hearing it now) will lose against Thor based on FEATS, if we ignore feats than Morgoth wins because he stood up against God (how stupid that sounds) Maybe i'm not getting it or using some crappy logic because books are different than comics but i don't see how Morgoth could beat Thor.

RKT. If Morgoth fought Eru, then Eru wouldn't be omnipotent, ergo we would have to look on their feats anyway. Shattering Earth puts Morogth on normal Thor's level. Now, what are his best feats?

Tough call. Morgoth was basically an angel that fell from Grace, directly created by God. He lost a great deal of his power and was only harmed by the strongest mystical beings in Middle Earth. I don't think Morgoth simply broke that ice capped mountain, I think he casually vaporized it. That line in the text "a mountain that wades in the sea, and has its head above the clouds, and is clad with ice and crowned with smoke and fire, and the light of the eyes of Melkor was like a flame that whithers with heat and pierces with a deadly cold."

I say Morgoth takes Thor unless he is amped somehow. No chance against Rune King Thor or similar versions. Morgoth would lose against Odin, thats for sure.

Morgoth's return to ME is basically total Armageddon. It's been established by Christopher Tolkien's writings that the only being that can truly kill him is Túrin Turambar. I'm not all that familiar with RK Thor, but Melkor waged war again a pantheon of Valar and that resulted in the complete obliteration of a continent. And that didn't even kill him or route out all of his subordinates. My money is on Morgoth on this fight. It'll be a brutal fight, but he will pull it out. He was able to curse a man (Húrin) with the inability to die as he watched his family suffer from being bound to a seat in Angband. I'd say being able to deny death is a hell of a feat.

Ok so I feel like people are low balling RKT this dude was in my opinion above skyfather! He destroyed the very fabric wich held multiple universe's together!

Just my opinion but I believe that Thor should win!

Rune King Thor destroys him.

Odin's fight was destroying Galaxies in the back-grounds.

Rune King Thor is much more powerful than this. Capable of defeating beings who were 'Gods to Gods'.

As impressive as some of the feats of Morgoth are, they really aren't THAT impressive.

Morgoth stomp his can even kill lt

Thor by feats

Otherwise Morgoth stomps

Via feats RKT shits over anything in LOTR except Iluvatar.

Morgoth is like Lucifer in the Bible before he fell and became Melkor. Morgoth stomps.

Nice hyperbole and statements. Are you a Dragon Ball fanboy? You know, there's this guy called Lucifer Morningstar that belongs to DC comics, who do you think is gonna win in a battle between Morgoth and Lucifer? they're both like that dude from the bible, right?

Rune King Thor absolutely demolishes.

@traskindustries: Obviously, this is just my opinion, but I've read the Silmarillion multiple times, so I know about Morgoth's limits. Thor is also one of my favorite characters. The Valar are like angels whereas Thor is merely superhuman. Calling him a god is hyperbole. Asgardians aren't even true immortals. Bringing dbz into the discussion is a complete non-sequitor. I think I've seen LM battle Etrigan back in the day but I'm not informed about his current incarnation. The Lucifer I'm talking about is the 2nd most powerful being in existence. He is beyond a Celestial in power.

Gonna go with the guy that has multi universe tree busting striking power.

Lmao. This is Rune King Thor. RKT is enough to one-shot anything in LOTR-verse except Iluvatar. Silmarillion is all nice and dandy (and bible-like in its driedness), but the feats are rare and few. The Lucifer you're talking about is nothing.

If you were talking about the real world Bible here, and 'real world' Satan (who is afterall just another fairy tale character), then his feats are utter garbage compared to someone as low as pre-52 Superman. Real world bible Lucifer is barely city-level in terms of power via actual feats, if thats what you want to bring in to this argument.

Someone like Silver Surfer is enough to utterly stomp everything in the Bible and LOTR-verse combined except the supposedly omnipotent deities God and Iluvatar.

Wrong way around

Thor stomps Morgoth has next to no impressive feats except for maybe blowing up the sun.

@kidolio: Feats don't really matter when the character is flushed out very well in what he is capable of. Agent Coulson has more feats than the Presence in combat, but that doesn't mean Agent Coulson wins that fight. Same applies here. Morgoth from LoTR is basically an angel who was a casual planet ender, can survive nothingness somehow, no amount of physical anything can harm him unless its a strike and weapon from another angel, not even the removal of particle physics and time. He is immune to time and nothing and was one of the beings that fashioned Creation itself and is responsible for the chaos that exists because he sang not so nice themes into it during Creation.

Actually feats do matter and titles generally don’t because somebody could be called a God for all I care unless you’re the supreme ruler of you’re universe with no contradictions titles mean nothing. About the presence thing you could scale of other people if necessary for instance Lucifer has shown he’s a multiversal reality warper and the presence could snap his fingers and kill him or how doomsday has no feats outside of fighting the justice league or other heroes. Another thing what you listed for morgoth are feats that he performed so he’s that strong as you stated and also where did you get the idea that Morgoth was above space and time and that no physical thing can harm him because I’m pretty sure shelob’s mother trapped him.

@kidolio: Ungoliant wasn't from the Earth and came from "darkness beyond". It was so powerful that the Valar didn't know what the hell it was and it was never explained. It was not just a big spider. It took the form of one cuz it looks cool. She absorbed powerful gems before the fight and then was attacked by Morgoth and a team of Balrogs, of which she was weak to their fire attacks and whips.

Ungoliant was so powerful that Morgoth said no to his hoard going to attack her after she fled. Morgoth said NOPE. Im staying. When he was in his final fight, his hammer was destroying mountains and causing fissures so far into the earth upon striking that fire and lava was spewing up. Even more, he left time and space and entered a place with nothing. His physical self isnt really there. It is an entity in armor. His armor is not his body. And when the sword of Fingolfin stabbed his foot (which he was promptly crushed by immediately after) that was because his sword was divine and harmed the spirit of Morgoth.

Thor is in big doo doo if he met Morgoth

@kryptonianpride: What has Morgoth done that would allow him to hurt Thor in any way especially Rune King Thor and all your stating is Ungoliants origin what has she done that would insinuate that she would be a threat to Thor and besides my entire point was that Morgoth isn’t immune to all physical attacks unless you can prove it and you can’t just say he can only be hurt by holy weapons as thor can soul manipulate. From what i’ve seen from Morgoth he doesn’t seem like he’d be that strong of an opponent because he doesn’t have any durability feats that I’m aware of or speed feats either. Morgoth to me just doesn’t seem powerful because all he’s done is maybe blow up the sun and thats it unless you could inform me more about Morgoth’s best feats. I’m fine with being proven wrong just give me his feats.

@kidolio: Sure, I'll try.

A magical angel and actual divine in nature, not just a magician...actual divinity at play, helped forge Creation, can sing life and complex matter and creatures into existence, owned Fire, and was responsible for generating the first clouds on the earth just by walking into the mortal realm and going into the ocean owned by a previous god

Was the strongest of the Ainur, and the smartest, they all sought his knowledge and strength

His hammer Grond hit the Earth so hard that it made such a deep crater that lava and fire spewed from very, very deep below

Defeated Ulmo, who fashioned stars on a whim and was unphased by his attacks, his durability is far, far beyond star level.

"Now Ilúvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time and in the midst of the innumerable Stars how Melkor hath made war upon thy province?"

Morgoth started as an angel, a cosmic entity. Who traveled into Creation cuz he wanted to rule it, by doing so, he made himself more of a physics based entity. One bound by mortal rules and such, Gods cant exist in the mortal Creation unless they take a mortal form, which is why Morgoth cant die. He is outside of the multiverse so to speak and in a place with nothing. No time, nodda. He is still floating there somehow waiting to return. He cant really be defeated, because he is angelic in nature.

He tanked Manwe striking and crushed a God under his hammer. These aren't alien races like Asgardian in the terms of "god". These are actual divine creatures that birthed Creation. Normal striking and impacts from Thor aren't going to cut it. Nothing in existence was able to harm Melkor (Morgoth) outside of another Godling being and direct son or daughter of Iluvitar (god)

I admit, he doesn't have amazing Feats there, but they really don't matter in this case. This is like saying Thor can harm Luficer because he hits the ground real hard. Thor has way better feats of power so based on page feats, Thor would get more points, but not win. Morgoth is an actual angel and couldn't do stuff without the other Valar coming around to stop him. If he were allowed to be free and use the powers he wished, he would just cease middle earth with a hammer strike, or sing it out of existence. He cant do that to others like him, so they had to go fight him and one of the most powerful physical form angels was dismantled by his hammer...and pancaked.

Too Long, I didn't read: Morgoth can't be harmed by conventional means. Thor's magic is nowhere near that level required even Odin isn't. Malkor is the smartest thing around. Can pretty much shred the entire planet with a physical hammer strike if he wished. The entire mortal universe stopped functioning properly because he entered it and took form. Not just the Earth, but the entire universe. He can sing things in and out of existence, which is why no mortal army could stop him. He owned fire. And was incapable of being harmed by anything that wasn't divine in power.

He was a boss, but doesn't have on page feats of power level Thor. Morgoths power resides in angelic powers.

Having angelic powers don’t make you immune to things unless you show it And being divine doesn’t do that either unless you find examples of people saying this or if morgoth shows it. Why wouldn’t magic work on them they haven’t shown they’re immune to it either because Odin sure as heck would beat morgoth because he’s shown galaxy manipulation and destruction and morgoth being divine doesn’t stop that fact. And no it isn’t comparable to Lucifer because he has on screen feats tanking universe destroying power and reality manipulation without a scratch if he didn’t I would say Thor beats him to. Why would creating things make him immune to things because Odin can make dimensions to and it doesn’t stop him from losing to people who can’t. I’m pretty sure creating arda was a feat for all the Valar and Maiar so you can’t just say morgoth can destroy it alone since we don’t know how much he made. Being an angle or cosmic entity doesn’t mean anything unless they have a standard power that all of them should have that you could compare morgoth to. Lastly where did you get the idea that the Valar made a multiverse because all of them combined are universal at best.

@kidolio: I understand this is an argument a lot of people have. But I am not on the side that any level of physical strength and even reality warping is going to harm an authentic biblical angel, or Jesus, or a divine creature in the LoTR lore. He is a real angel and no physical trauma inflicted by a non divine being should be able to harm him. Odin in Marvel isn't divine. He is an alien with some mystical powers. Morgoth is an angel. Again, I make the reference to divine power showing up and someone with some magical abilities, even Odin level actually doing something to that angel being a mute point. Nothing was supposed to harm angelic beings.

I think it is too much of a comicbook mindset with that, because beings like Michael can fight the Spectre and make him exert himself. That is an actual angel. Lol. Idk how else to defend it. They were all made before the mortal universe and physics, no amount of magic or physical trauma would be able to harm them because they are divine. Also Shelobs mom was something else entirely as well.

Im not at all saying you are wrong, nor that I am right. Just making my case for divinity.

I'm a sucker for Tolkien, but idk about this one

@kryptonianpride: I get what your saying thematically in some works of fiction mortals being able to hurt divine beings just makes no sense and how divine people are portrayed can have an effect as Morgoth is portrayed as this great evil that seems unstoppable but in comics and comicvine anybody can beat anybody provided they have the right power or weapon or plan because comics have so many types of people and genres interact that one type of people or genre being able to completely beat another wouldn’t really work. It’s one of comics best aspects and worst aspects because some great ancient evil could be coming but then gets defeated by iron man because he knew in advance and had a transporter on hand. I think the reason Thor isn’t seen as divine is because he gets compared to the universe he’s in and people of technology can beat him and that ruins the illusion.

@kidolio: in very early issues of Thor, odin tells everyone flat out they aren't real God's. They are just asgardians and basically just aliens with mystic powers. I can't find the issue but it was stated.

And ya. I just had a powers debate recently that got nowhere fast. To me a reality warper and molecule manipulator can't and won't affect someone like Lucifer in vertigo. Because he was around before physics and reality. He is something else. Warp the multiple for all he cares he will still be there if you remove it all because he is a higher thing that reality doesn't really apply to.

It's All about powers and for morgoth his weakness was Divine metalworking. For shelobs mom, Divine fire whips barlogs used. And so on.

Despite not having massive feats. The JRRT really didn't write them like a comic book with epic feats so we have to infer power. And I admit that's hard.

Feats for thor all day long.

But statements of Divine power. Real divinity and not just a self issued title of a God will beat pretty much everything except something with more Divine power.

That's what I say anyway.

@kryptonianpride: Well if you see it that way then then I guess we won’t come to an agreement soooo.... agree to disagree.