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Posted by k4tzm4n (34941 posts) 6 months, 24 days ago

Poll: Moon Knight Battle of the Week VOTING: Moon Knight vs. Green Arrow (373 votes)

Green Arrow 39%
Moon Knight 55%
Too close to call 6%

Ladies and gentlemen, Moon Knight Month has officially begun! This week, we're testing the anti-hero's skills against Green Arrow, one of DC's most accurate heroes! Does Marc Spector have what it takes to defeat Oliver Queen or will the Emerald Archer drop Moon Knight with his variety of arrows? You have until Friday to think it through, Viners. But before you cast your vote, please be sure to read all of the rules. Seriously, it's like, a minute or two out of your day and provides all of the important information (where they're fighting, what gear they have, etc).

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter (aka no prep for either team).
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 30 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover in the location (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, the sewer, etc.
  • Moon Knight's gear: to keep things simple and balanced, let's assume Spector has his "classic"/2006 gear. This means it's the iconic costume (not carbonadium armor), and he has his truncheons (which have multiple functions), plenty of crescent daggers, spiked knuckles and anything else which is considered standard for him at that time. No vehicles, obviously.
  • Green Arrow's gear: Oliver has his New 52 gear. He has a plentiful supply of regular arrows but his supply of trick arrows is very limited (for example, he'd only have one explosive arrow). For simplicity's sake, let's say skill feats from pre-52 are applicable.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too.
  • Hey, you know what would be really cool? Treating everyone else in the debate with respect. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. Seriously, this is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining. Just saying.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to be selected as the Viner Argument of the Week. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • A Viner Argument for both characters (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future battle suggestions in the comments below or via Twitter! Want to continue celebrating Moon Knight? He'll be the topic of tomorrow's 'Question of the Week' and his 'Best Cover' will be posted on Friday.

#1 Edited by dorukesin (6955 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver

#2 Posted by LuciusTheEternal (802 posts) - - Show Bio

Siding with Moon Knight.

#3 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5330 posts) - - Show Bio

MK

#4 Posted by ariesleguin (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Ollie.

#5 Posted by Xwraith (21595 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow is my favorite character from the Big Two, but I don't really think he can beat Marc.

#6 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what would be fun?

Providing arguments....that actually take both of the character's feats into account.

#7 Posted by k4tzm4n (34941 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith said:

Green Arrow is my favorite character from the Big Two, but I don't really think he can beat Marc.

You don't think his variety of awesome trick arrows could be a game changer?

#8 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (35154 posts) - - Show Bio

I made a thread like this a few months ago. To start with Green Arrow pulled ahead but then after a few weeks more people started going for MK so I'm interested to see how this turns out.

#9 Posted by Xwraith (21595 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@xwraith said:

Green Arrow is my favorite character from the Big Two, but I don't really think he can beat Marc.

You don't think his variety of awesome trick arrows could be a game changer?

Maybe. But I wouldn't put it past MK being able to dodge them.

#10 Edited by k4tzm4n (34941 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what would be fun?

Providing arguments....that actually take both of the character's feats into account.

By all means, please feel free kick off the debate with an elaborate post :D

#11 Posted by k4tzm4n (34941 posts) - - Show Bio

I made a thread like this a few months ago. To start with Green Arrow pulled ahead but then after a few weeks more people started going for MK so I'm interested to see how this turns out.

Did you have the same conditions or were they different? I thought giving MK his carbonadium armor would be too unfair.

#12 Posted by TDK_1997 (15102 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting match-up but I don't think Ollie would stick for long. I mean he has a range advantage because of the arrows but Marc isn't going for the first time against an opponent who relies on long range combat and uses weapons of that kind. The best example for him dodging something that is shot at him is from the most recent Moon Knight series where in #2 he basically cut a bullet in half with his moon daggers,so it seems like an arrow wouldn't be much of a problem for him. That being said he will pretty quickly cut the range in half and maybe he will even be just too close and will rely on a h2h combat which just puts him above Oliver and that will make him fall.

But of course there is another scenario which isn't much likely to happen but there is a chance,Oliver to trick Marc. I mean that one explosive arrow may be just too much and to be enough for Ollie to win. If it is set at the right place and it explodes it might make MK a little bit dizzy and then he will be an easy target.

#13 Posted by Squalleon (4984 posts) - - Show Bio

I am voting for Ollie, since he gets Pre-52 feats.
I mean after OYL, he was at least a skilled close-quarters compatant, and with his range advantage, I am giving him the majority. But tbh except the Bendis' run and the current series I don't know much else about Moon Knight.

Online
#14 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@twix_right_side said:

You know what would be fun?

Providing arguments....that actually take both of the character's feats into account.

By all means, please feel free kick off the debate with an elaborate post :D

First,I have to re-check Moon Knight's feats. He has some pretty good ones in his new run (he deflected a bullet IIRC),but I am pretty sure that Green Arrow might have better reaction feats. So for now,it's not "MK" or "GA" with me,it's undecided.

#15 Posted by AmazingWebHead (4489 posts) - - Show Bio

Too close

#16 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (35154 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

I made a thread like this a few months ago. To start with Green Arrow pulled ahead but then after a few weeks more people started going for MK so I'm interested to see how this turns out.

Did you have the same conditions or were they different? I thought giving MK his carbonadium armor would be too unfair.

It was the same to begin with but then I went back and edited it for the current versions because it was started before Moon Knight's new book and I wanted to see if that would make a difference. His current armor is meant to be part carbonadium so the white bits are armor and the black bits are not.

#17 Posted by Owie (3966 posts) - - Show Bio

Ooohhh...unexpected opponent. This is a somewhat hard call, because certainly Green Arrow's archery skills and trick arrows are very formidable.

However, Moon Knight has caught arrows in the air, and the shooter's level of accuracy doesn't affect that ability. Moon Knight has also cut a bullet in half in mid air.

Moon Knight is a tough guy with absurd pain and damage resistance. He has a wide range of weapons that he has used over the years, including various gas bombs/cannisters, drugged darts, electrified truncheons, etc. So he is not lacking in the trick weaponry area either.

Marc's martial arts abilities are not the top of the Marvel Universe, but they are very good. He knows and uses nerve strikes. He is very athletic and gymnastic, and had dodged all kinds of bullets in the past.

He is also an expert marksman with his own crescent darts, able to hit multiple targets, small targets, and at a distance.

I think all this dodging and speed stuff can get him past Ollie's volleys and have him take down Ollie in H2H. I'm not as familiar with Ollie's H2H abilities so I will wait to learn more about that. I know he's good but I think Marc's own skill, plus his pain resistance, will give him the win.

I'll put up scans of all this in a minute.

#18 Edited by Omnicrono (2188 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm leaning toward Green Arrow for the slight majority in light of the battle scenario. Moon Knight has never encountered a ranged fighter quite like GA. The man is arguably the most talented and tricksy marksman on Earth in the DCU, and he'll have plenty of cover from which he can maneuver his opponent into position on this battlefield. So if GA keeps his distance, maybe even gains the high ground quickly, he pretty much has this one in the bag... in my opinion.

That's not to say GA has to always keep his distance either. His martial arts skills are nothing to scoff at, allowing him to go toe-to-toe for a while against some of the greatest close-quarters combatants in the DCU, such as Black Canary and even Batman. Moon Knight is going to have a difficult time even if he does manage to get in close. At the very least, GA should be able to hold his own in an up-close confrontation... long enough to seal the deal with a trick arrow or two, for which Moony has no answer.

#19 Edited by tparks (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight should really take a large majority here.

Moon Knight is one of the most talented characters when it comes to facing projectiles. He can literally throw his crescent darts and slice bullets in half out of mid air. Even in his classic days, Spector was dodging bullets while at the same time using his crescent darts to slice his opponents guns in half. He's dodged bullets from Punisher and closed the distance to disarm him with his truncheons. I am completely confident that Moon Knight is going to avoid/deflect every arrow shot his way.

When it gets to close range, Green Arrow is still a threat with melee fighting, but Moon Knight really is the superior character here. In his very first appearance in Werewolf By Night, they state that he has trained in all known martial arts. He's also developed his own style of fighting, where he will intentionally take a punch if he is capable of landing a punch of his own that dishes out even more damage. Taskmaster has even said that Moon Knight is the one character he won't copy fighting styles from, because there isn't a single punch Moon Knight wouldn't take.

Taking punches might sound like a bad strategy, but not when you're a tank like Moony, its really not that big of an issue. Moon Knight has a ridiculous pain tolerance. He's had his body busted and broken and keeps fighting. He took on the Thunderbolts by himself when he was severely beaten up and got the upper-hand. Every strike Green Arrow lands is going to have less of an effect then the one's Moon Knight is landing.

I really think this match up plays very well into Moon Knight's strengths as a fighter, and gives him a clear advantage.

#20 Posted by RedX17 (75 posts) - - Show Bio

pre-52 is a tie, but post-52 Moon Knight wins all the way.

#21 Edited by BeaconofStrength (6835 posts) - - Show Bio

Have to back Moon Knight on this one.

#22 Posted by dondave (38904 posts) - - Show Bio

Putty Arrow ftw

#23 Posted by TDK_1997 (15102 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

Moon Knight should really take a large majority here.

Moon Knight is one of the most talented characters when it comes to facing projectiles. He can literally throw his crescent darts and slice bullets in half out of mid air. Even in his classic days, Spector was dodging bullets while at the same time using his crescent darts to slice his opponents guns in half. He's dodged bullets from Punisher and closed the distance to disarm him with his truncheons. I am completely confident that Moon Knight is going to avoid/deflect every arrow shot his way.

When it gets to close range, Green Arrow is still a threat with melee fighting, but Moon Knight really is the superior character here. In his very first appearance in Werewolf By Night, they state that he has trained in all known martial arts. He's also developed his own style of fighting, where he will intentionally take a punch if he is capable of landing a punch of his own that dishes out even more damage. Taskmaster has even said that Moon Knight is the one character he won't copy fighting styles from, because there isn't a single punch Moon Knight wouldn't take.

Taking punches might sound like a bad strategy, but not when you're a tank like Moony, its really not that big of an issue. Moon Knight has a ridiculous pain tolerance. He's had his body busted and broken and keeps fighting. He took on the Thunderbolts by himself when he was severely beaten up and got the upper-hand. Every strike Green Arrow lands is going to have less of an effect then the one's Moon Knight is landing.

I really think this match up plays very well into Moon Knight's strengths as a fighter, and gives him a clear advantage.

I really like your post mate. I mean there are different scenarios that can appear in this battle but you perfectly covered everything up.

#24 Posted by jelliottthegreat (7 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe that Green Arrow is being underestimated here. With crazy trick arrows like his flame arrow, his "umbrella arrow" (see outsiders war) and others he can throw a lot of unexpected tricks at Moon Knight that would certainly keep him on his toes. Another major factor is Ollie's speed, which (when you consider bullets being dodged by Moon Knight) wouldn't be enough on it's own, but that paired with insane pin-point accuracy would mean that by the time Moon Knight has caught or dodged one arrow two more are sailing straight for their target. While it would certainly be a close fight, and mistakes on either end could sway the result, I believe that Oliver could totally take this one, and leave Moon Knight with arrowheads in his vitals.

#25 Posted by MrTummyTumms (885 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to have to go with GA. From what I have been reading he's not only has amazing accuracy, but he's great when it comes to dealing with situations without prep, such as the Komodo fights. I read a couple of Moon knights comics, but unless he can actually get in close range with GA, I don't really see him being able to win this one.

#26 Edited by Owie (3966 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight catching an arrow in the air (scans in reverse order)

Moon Knight cutting a bullet in half with a crescent dart

Moon Knight accuracy feats with his darts:

Multiple disarmings at once; hitting multiple opponents in different directions; hitting a guy from long distance; the three reddish scans are out of order but show him throwing a dart, bouncing it off a wall, and hitting the guy in the exact spot needed to screw him up; cutting a gun in half; oops, showed the cutting the bullet in half again; buts Hobgoblin's gun in half; hits cigarette; hits multiple guys; hits the barrel of a gun; knocks the money out of a guy's hand; defelcts off a monument into a guy's gun hand, disarming him; cuts the fuse off dynamite

Sorry, one I missed; hits the guy's gun hand

Dodging and agility feats, fairly self explanatory. Lots of dodging multiple gunfire at close range, including from the Punisher.

Nerve strikes

Range of weapons: gas bomb, sleep darts, electrified truncheon, gas cannister, dart-wire gun

We'll start with that and I'll get some more up later. Moon Knight has done well against Deadpool, Taskmaster, Hobgoblin, Mr Hyde (!), and other formidable foes.

[edit: credit for many scans goes to the excellent respect thread on KMC]

#27 Posted by CitizenJP (627 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Ollie!

#28 Edited by TDK_1997 (15102 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe that Green Arrow is being underestimated here. With crazy trick arrows like his flame arrow, his "umbrella arrow" (see outsiders war) and others he can throw a lot of unexpected tricks at Moon Knight that would certainly keep him on his toes. Another major factor is Ollie's speed, which (when you consider bullets being dodged by Moon Knight) wouldn't be enough on it's own, but that paired with insane pin-point accuracy would mean that by the time Moon Knight has caught or dodged one arrow two more are sailing straight for their target. While it would certainly be a close fight, and mistakes on either end could sway the result, I believe that Oliver could totally take this one, and leave Moon Knight with arrowheads in his vitals.

Those kinds of arrows are definitely not going to be enough. I mean Marc's speed is amazing and when it comes to dodging bullets he is great in that area. Also it seems like Ollie only has only one trick arrow from each kind and if he doesn't lay them at the exact perfect spot then he is toasted since if he uses normal arrows nothing else would happen rather than MK dodging them,cataching them or just splitting them in half. And with that being done the range between them will be cut short with each second and it will end with a h2h fight in which Marc would win.

#29 Posted by AbdullahZubair (223 posts) - - Show Bio

Ollie can target something before it gets there. Even if moon knight is using his crescent dart Ollie can dodge them because of his agility and his ability to know where will it come. I remember a frame from new 52 jla where he threw a dart onto a bullseye on top of Steve's head.while moon knight is more agile than him he can't move that much if he is jumping and flying in the air. And even if he can dodge the normal arrows, Ollie will know what is going on and he will start shooting his trick arrows. Green Arrow has this hands down

#30 Posted by Omnicrono (2188 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: some good scans. Thanks!

#31 Posted by GreenArrowFan (3 posts) - - Show Bio

Trying to put my bias aside here, with Ollie's weapons advantage I give Green Arrow the edge, especially since Moonie's carbonadium armor is not being factored in.

#32 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23008 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

I am completely confident that Moon Knight is going to avoid/deflect every arrow shot his way.

That might not be the best, what if Ollie uses an explosive tip arrow and when Marc tries deflecting it it blows his arm off. Like you said he tanks so he can dish out, but thats not that smart when Ollie has tech arrows that could probably one shot.

#33 Edited by Hit_Monkey (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight has the bullet timing, projectile and damage soak feats to close the gap on Green Arrow. Spector even has at least 1 pretty boss archery feat to his name. So he's well versed in Ollie's craft. He'll get through Ollie's pitched battle intact enough for close combat. He has the skills required.

Ollie has some very impressive H2H feats. Over the piece though, Spector's are better. I think we can all admit that? He is at least, more of an established H2H combatant than Ollie. He also has an array of brutal close combat weapons. Which he uses very efficiently. I don't think Green Arrow can hang with Moon Knight once it gets to this point.

To recap, I think Moon Knight has demonstrated enough bullet dodging, accuracy feats and damage soak during his career to get close to Green Arrow. Once it's a close range fight. While I don't think it'll be a wash. Spector takes him in the majority here.

#34 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5690 posts) - - Show Bio

MK tajes slight majority.

#35 Posted by tparks (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

I am completely confident that Moon Knight is going to avoid/deflect every arrow shot his way.

That might not be the best, what if Ollie uses an explosive tip arrow and when Marc tries deflecting it it blows his arm off. Like you said he tanks so he can dish out, but thats not that smart when Ollie has tech arrows that could probably one shot.

Moon Knight eats exploding arrows for breakfast!

#36 Posted by Leafx (46 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted too close to call because both Ollie and Marc are incredibly unpredictable and both have their good and "off" days. However, I personally do believe that if I were pressed to choose one I will say Moon Knight will eventually come out on top. Marc is just too tough and crazy that I just don't feel any amount of arrows will be able to put him down indefinitely. We've seen taskmaster fill MK with arrows and seen Marc not miss a single beat, the guy just continues to push forward, they both have grappling hooks and stuff like that, they're both well trained, they both have stealth when they need to, but one particular little edge I will give MK is his disregard for both himself and his willingness to kill (remember when he cut off bushwacker's face?). In short Moon Knight's amazing toughness and willing to go to lengths of mutilating his opponent to win, he'll come out on top 6/10 times

#37 Posted by i_like_swords (17622 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly.. the bullet slicing feat isn't all that impressive. The dart was already halfway toward it's target by the time the guy had fired. Moon Knight was more than likely aiming to disarm the guy, and ended up slicing the bullet as collateral damage. More than that, the guy isn't a very credible marksman. He just points and shoots, so Marc points and throws. It didn't seem very difficult.

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#38 Posted by Owie (3966 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight's strategy:

He moves in on Green Arrow, catching, deflecting, or dodging arrows as he goes. Again, the accuracy of an archer doesn't matter if the target can grab them or deflect them with his gauntlets, as Moon Knight has done with arrows, darts, lasers, and bullets in the past.

As he goes, he throws crescent darts at Ollie's bow. Now, neither combatant knows anything about the other. But Marc can figure out right away just by looking at Ollie that he's an archer. Whereas Ollie can't really know much about Marc's abilities by looking at him. So, knowing he's an archer, Marc is going to go for his weapon right away. He'll throw crescent darts to either knock the bow out of his hand, or break it in half, both of which he has done multiple times to foes. Green Arrow, on the other hand, has no major weapons to knock out of Moon Knight's hand, other than the darts themselves.

When he has closed in, he'll fight it out. Marc has very acrobatic moves, is very fast, is strong (even without his moon powers), has ridiculous pain resistance, knows nerve strikes, and has very little problem with killing. He kills bad guys all the time, often in absurdly nasty ways (cutting the face off his main enemy, for instance). So he'll go all-out on Green Arrow. He can bring his other weapons into the fight at this time, too. He has a truncheon that extends into a bo staff and can electrify (and can magnetically return to his hand when thrown), nunchucks, a gun that shoots crescent darts attached by a wire, and has used gas pellets and other gas weapons on multiple occasions. Exactly what weapons he would have on him in a random encounter in a particular period is hard to predict, because he has used way more weapons than I just listed. But the ones above are reasonably standard for around this time period, if I recall. He also has spiked knuckles that would really do a number on anyone. So while I know Ollie has good H2H skills, I think Marc's own skills, plus his speed and agility, plus his pain resistance, plus his exotic weaponry, will do the trick, and Moon Knight will win the day.

His main worry is whatever Green Arrow's trick arrows happen to be. I would readily admit that they would put a damper on Marc. However, with the reasonably close starting distance, and his own range of weapons to balance out the trick arrows, and his ability to dodge/catch/deflect them, I think Moon Knight will keep a majority.

#39 Posted by k4tzm4n (34941 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@tparks said:

I am completely confident that Moon Knight is going to avoid/deflect every arrow shot his way.

That might not be the best, what if Ollie uses an explosive tip arrow and when Marc tries deflecting it it blows his arm off. Like you said he tanks so he can dish out, but thats not that smart when Ollie has tech arrows that could probably one shot.

Moon Knight eats exploding arrows for breakfast!

Disclaimer: Marc does in fact not eat exploding arrows for breakfast. He has them for dinner.

#40 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (8084 posts) - - Show Bio

tie.

#41 Posted by Owie (3966 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly.. the bullet slicing feat isn't all that impressive. The dart was already halfway toward it's target by the time the guy had fired. Moon Knight was more than likely aiming to disarm the guy, and ended up slicing the bullet as collateral damage. More than that, the guy isn't a very credible marksman. He just points and shoots, so Marc points and throws. It didn't seem very difficult.

I'd disagree with that assessment. First, Moon Knight is throwing the dart in the same panel the gun flash goes off, so it's more or less simultaneous. It's reasonable to assume he's trying to hit the bullet--even if you think he's effectively throwing at a bullet that hasn't been shot yet, knowing that it will be shot and pre-emptively knowing his dart will cut it in half. That's still impressive. They're not going to make a scene where a guy's weapon accidentally cuts a bullet in half, and give it a panel all of its own, that would be pointless to a fight.

And the guy is a professional assassin who just killed most of the other members of his own special forces team by sniping them, I don't see how he's not a credible marksman.

@tparks said:

I am completely confident that Moon Knight is going to avoid/deflect every arrow shot his way.

That might not be the best, what if Ollie uses an explosive tip arrow and when Marc tries deflecting it it blows his arm off. Like you said he tanks so he can dish out, but thats not that smart when Ollie has tech arrows that could probably one shot.

That is an issue, if he goes for deflection. But, what is the likelihood that GA is going to shoot an explosive arrow at him right away? How likely is he to try to kill/maim an opponent? (I am actually asking.)

Net arrows/glue arrows are probably the other main worry. Spector has shown immunity to sonics due to tech in his cowl, and resistance to gas by being able to hold his breath an unusually long time, so those are not as likely to be a problem.

#42 Posted by viin (694 posts) - - Show Bio

well theres only like 12 full moons in a year so as long as its not on one of those nights im pretty sure ollie can take him.

#43 Posted by Iragexcudder (5619 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: this is why i believe that Green Arrow will win without winning Viner Of The Month Award

Assume they start roughly 30 feet apart and visible

Sharpshooter with fancy arrows > insane murderous assassin

Moon Knight is very impressive, but given that he has ZERO prep, that would mean that he has no absolute idea that Ollie even has trick arrows up his sleeve. Given that Ollie has a very quick pull-shoot speed, he'd shoot a few within distance to see where Moon Knight goes before he can get to cover and shoot off a trick arrow to subdue/ko/kill Marc before he has a chance to make mincemeat of ole Ollie... just my opinion.

#44 Posted by i_like_swords (17622 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Green Arrow here. I don't recall Moon Knight ever deflecting or dodging projectiles from a marksman of the same caliber as Ollie, and that is what is important. Moon Knight has good reaction feats, yes, but he hasn't shown the ability to avoid and deflect projectiles that are being fired by someone who can target awkward angles and let off their shots in erratic combinations. Another thing Marc doesn't have an answer for is Ollie's trick arrows. He has no idea who Ollie is, or what he's packing. If he tries to deflect an explosive or putty arrow - it's game over. Marc could absolutely win in close quarters, due to being the better fighter, as well as stronger and tougher, but I don't see him as being able to close the gap for a majority.

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#45 Edited by i_like_swords (17622 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie:

I'd disagree with that assessment. First, Moon Knight is throwing the dart in the same panel the gun flash goes off, so it's more or less simultaneous. It's reasonable to assume he's trying to hit the bullet--even if you think he's effectively throwing at a bullet that hasn't been shot yet, knowing that it will be shot and pre-emptively knowing his dart will cut it in half. That's still impressive. They're not going to make a scene where a guy's weapon accidentally cuts a bullet in half, and give it a panel all of its own, that would be pointless to a fight.

And the guy is a professional assassin who just killed most of the other members of his own special forces team by sniping them, I don't see how he's not a credible marksman.

It wasn't simultaneous. Marcs dart was halfway towards it's target by the time the trigger had been pulled.

At best Marc has done the deflecting equivalent of aim dodging - aim deflecting. He's thrown his dart at the gun, where it's being aimed, and the bullet has inevitably been cut. That's okay, I guess, but it's not like he's deflecting bullets after, or even as they're being fired. And it's not like he will have the same success against Ollie who is a more accomplished marksman than that guy, can send arrows at all different angles, and more importantly has a ton of trick arrows at his disposal.

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#46 Posted by Experio (17250 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow

#47 Posted by Knightsofdarkness2 (4557 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon knight

#48 Posted by Mrnoital (2992 posts) - - Show Bio

Using trick arrows like glue bomb or riot(expanding foam) arrows he could incapacitate , and using pre-52 feats he has a higher level of hand to hand that could keep up, he's even been able to block throwing stars from deathstroke with his bow, and if he had his sword would probably be a much easier win, since he doesn't it really depends on what arrows Ollie has, his h2h might be much better than it used to be, but nobody wants to take spiked knuckles, even with ollies heightened training it most likely should be what arrows he has that makes the biggest difference, he usually knows the right time to use them, leading his enemy with regular shots if he can, or if they block or catch them he often chooses the right time and right place to put a trick arrow to catch them off guard, and since Moon Knight no longer has his powers, while he's still very dangerous, his stats aren't overwhelmingly over Green Arrows or some that he has fought, again, it largely depends on what trick arrows he has

#49 Posted by GraniteSoldier (9008 posts) - - Show Bio

Tough one. My knowledge on both is spotty but I feel character personalities could be the deciding factor in this fight. Moon Knight isn't known for going easy or wasting time. Isn't Ollie a bit of a joker and smartmouth? I feel like a lack of full concentration could cost him. I'm with holding my vote since I'm not well versed in either, but I feel like what a character often does in character is more important than what they can potentially do.

#50 Posted by TDK_1997 (15102 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Green Arrow here. I don't recall Moon Knight ever deflecting or dodging projectiles from a marksman of the same caliber as Ollie, and that is what is important. Moon Knight has good reaction feats, yes, but he hasn't shown the ability to avoid and deflect projectiles that are being fired by someone who can target awkward angles and let off their shots in erratic combinations. Another thing Marc doesn't have an answer for is Ollie's trick arrows. He has no idea who Ollie is, or what he's packing. If he tries to deflect an explosive or putty arrow - it's game over. Marc could absolutely win in close quarters, due to being the better fighter, as well as stronger and tougher, but I don't see him as being able to close the gap for a majority.

In that scan @owie posted you see Marc slicing up a bullet that was shot from a professional assassing who had previously killed a lot of people from a special forces team. I think that is a good feat to prove you that Marc has gone up against good marksmen and he will not have an easy time with Olie but it wouldn't be impossible for him to dodge,catch or do anything else he wants with the arrows.

The trick arrows thing is pretty possible yeah,but Moon Knight has shown that he has great pain tolerance and a a trick arrow won't be slowing him that much. I mean he can be caught off guard and get dizzy for a few seconds but nothing more than that. Only an explosive arrow can put him down permanently probably but if Oliver doesn;t make the shot and somehow Marc dodges it even slightly then it's game over.