Monarch & Superman Prime vs. Rune King Thor & World War Hulk

@Funcake said:

Prime was almost out of Guardian energy amp thats why he was "only" KO´ed. Sorry the "the fire un-make the univerese", "the wind of thousand words" etc. The Asgardians hyperbole them selfs by a lot I saw only claims on your posted scans, no clears feats by clear destroying something similar like the universe. Btw the powers from RKT still magical based?!

Fair enough but wouldnt the same be true in this fight, how long would Prime Guardian amp last him. We know he does weaken fairly quickly, and Odin for one has some amazing energy manipulation feats, is there anything really stopping Thor from draining Prime?

I understand where you are coming from in regards to "un-making the universe", lets see if i can get you to see from my point of view. Loki, Odin, Surtur and the narrator all pretty much said the same thing, that his powers were indeed capable of destroying the whole universe. I dont see why Loki would lie about Surtur's powers. Loki likes to boast about himself but why would he boast about Sutur's powers? Same with Odin, why would be boast about Surtur's powers and the narrator.

Given the circumstance and the way it was presented in comics, which becomes a little hard for me to explain as i did not save the whole comics but only limited scan , i will still post things i have saved.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2702166-asgardianskyfatherssupreme_1.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2702167-asgardianskyfatherssupreme_2.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2702162-asgardianskyfatherssupreme_3.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2702163-asgardianskyfatherssupreme_4.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2702170-asgardianskyfatherssupreme_5.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2702181-asgardianskyfatherssupreme_6.jpg

To me its multiple statements from various sources, none of whom have any reason to lie. I see no reason for it to be true, and that was pretty much what the whole story is based upon.

Shield or no Shields if someone are able to survife the end of all life which is still at universal busting level this charackter has to be above such level by knowlegde or durality it is finaly irrelevant. The only narration has to make sense if not it is nothing just hyperbole.

I dont think i am understanding your argument. I am not denying that having a shield tank a universal blast is not impressive but wouldnt that be a feat for his shield and monitor tech as oppose to their power level. Also monitor tech is developed by Nix Uaton and Mandrakk before he went rogue, who are not the same as normal monitors.

Then we have a clear proof that it was shield that tanked everything, else the plant, the planet all would have been destroyed. So that certainly seem very very insufficient proof to show any power level from Monitor, let alone put them at multiversal level.

I am not saying i will not accept statement, i am also not saying i will not accept feats, but can you please bring me anything that actually says Monitors are multiversal or even more powerful than a skyfather. Because i have no seen it yet, i have read Final Crisis + Countdown + all the tie ins.

You are making it sound like Bob should be above RKT which i do not for even a second agree. Why would BOB then be scared of Prime, why would Bob be treated as equal and never superior by Darkseid, who humiliates him but Bob cant retaliate.

Doesnt add up.

@Funcake said:

The Plant was in the area of the shied from the Monitor.

The Monitor made it pretty clearly the plant survived and from the conversation it was made clear than the survial of plant would likely go on after the shields were removed

It clearly says "because where there is life, there is hope" certainly look like the plant was NOT going to die. How does the plant live without a universe? Then we also see there clearly is light which shows the existence of stars? Or are you telling me the monitor was using a touch light.

Everthink else should be said by them selfs: Monarch >>>>> Skyfather by a lot. Who fails to understand here with closed eyes or ears?!

Monarch >>> Skyfather based on your twisted sense of reality, your misguided fanboyism and nothing else. What has Monarch ever done to show he is even in the same league as a skyfather? Do you even know what Skyfather have been shown capable of doing.

Monarch's best feat is beating a small army of Superman and Captain Atom from different reality, thats it. Nothing more. Then he lost against Prime.

There is NO logic, no feat, no statement that put him at skyfather level let alone above, apart from your misguided fanboyism.

I said nothing about that Primes amp would be still at the same level for ever.

I am pointing how you argument is extremely redudent. Prime lost most of his amp in a short fight with Monarch where he attacks prime only once with anything significant. Certainly shows his amp wont last for sh*t against a skyfather level being.

How many punches from Prime and attacks from Monarch would RKT tank before Prime would go down to SBP level?!

Give that Prime's best feat is blowing up a planet and Monarch one shotting an alternate reality Superman i would say maybe a couple of 100s punches at the least.

Skyfather have never been floored by punches, despite having fought being vastly stronger than Superman level beings.

About un-make fire thing, if Surtur has universe bust level showing on pannel, so I dont have a problem to see them on some scans.

Again read the story first then talk. No he never busted the universe, but he did shows he had powers to do so. Busting the universe was his own plan, he gets his amp from Manchester Gods, and Loki, Sutur, Odin, Mancheter God, Mephisto all agreed that is exactly what Surtur was capable of doing. Are you telling me they all did not know jack what they were talking about.

So again first read a story before you talk.

Prime has steted to be more than immune to magic, he was an anomaly in pre 52 so thats why he as SBP was able to retconpunch dc´s contuinity.

Prime was never said to be immune to magic. Then yes he is said to be an anomaly and hence cant be erased from existence.

SBP never retconned the DC continuity. That comes from people who have not read the story in question.

Read this:

And this:

And if you still dont understand there was a dimensional barrier created by Alex Luthor to protect Superman From EArth 2, Lois Lane, Prime and himself from collapsing realities during COIE. So Luthor created a pocket dimension with that barrier.

The barrier was already crumbling before Prime even touched it, as you can see in the bottom left hand side of the scan, then Prime was punching on the realities constantly before breaking it with Alex Powers. No reason to believe the walls of reality was as strong, and the walls finally shattered when Prime punched it the next time around.

Over-blowing feats from DC, lovely.

About the statement with BA you have to read some postings again. If you fail to understand than try again and relax please.

There are mostly misguided statement. He has tanked magic from 3 users and thats all. None of whom are really good magicians. Then you are comparing their magic with a being beyond skyfather and then pretending some would hold true.

There is no leeway, Prime has done jack to suggest he is invulnerable to magic, resistant yes, not immune by any means. Nor has there been a statement as that.

Captain Atom however is different.

You guys are still ignoring that Prime is very near immune to magic. Due to his resistance, his guardian energy will burn much slower.

Monarch could probably one-shot WWH, RKT couldn't solo the 2.

@logy5000: I would not put much stock on Prime immunity to magic as he has limited showings, however like Warlock mentioned I think Monarch might actually be more immune to magic, something that was pointed to me by Beatboks1 in one of our challenge a viner tournament. Lets summon him for more clarification.

Calling@beatboks1:, come in please, a little help about Captain Atom vs Magic with feats listed :)

Also i dont see why RKT couldnt beat two of them, and if you really believe RKT couldnt beat two of them, like at all, isnt this a intentional spite? What defense do the two have against Time manipulation?

@Killemall Well Prime is already durable enough to take a universal explosion, (despite that he didn't stay conscious.) RKT never showed anything close to universal level, and then you add in their resistance to magic, it would take a good deal of time to seriously injure Prime. It's not really spite, I wanted to see people's opinions and I was open for debating about it.

As for time manipulation: I don't know whether or not Prime can time travel or not, (he might be able to since he's supposedly faster than Flash,) but since you've raised time control, I'll raise speed blitzing. How will Thor handle millions of punches to the face before stopping time crosses his mind?

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall Well Prime is already durable enough to take a universal explosion, (despite that he didn't stay conscious.) RKT never showed anything close to universal level, and then you add in their resistance to magic, it would take a good deal of time to seriously injure Prime. It's not really spite, I wanted to see people's opinions and I was open for debating about it.

As for time manipulation: I don't know whether or not Prime can time travel or not, (he might be able to since he's supposedly faster than Flash,) but since you've raised time control, I'll raise speed blitzing. How will Thor handle millions of punches to the face before stopping time crosses his mind?

He has the Odin Force, and Runes, he can increase his whatever, like strength, just like Odin does. :3 PWN, besides he's all seeing and all knowing, by the time Prime tried to make a move, RKT would be 10 moves ahead of him.

@logy5000 said:

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

This is a Thor Vs Superman battle in disguise...

Superman>Hulk

RKT>Monarch

Reasons?

Just going off of feats RKT is multi-galaxy level. Monarch has the potential to be universal level.

Multi Galaxy Level, hmm, your way incorrect on that. Than I also forgot, your a Thor hater and Superman fanboy.

@Funcake said:

@Killemall:
Hyperbole is not exactly a lie, it is more making things more interesting than they actualy would be.Thank you for the posted scans, the thing is still that is no evidence for me to see on panel that something similar to universe got destroyed by Surturs energy output.

Anyway I have to assume that he is able to.

Hyperbole is often someone boasting about their powers like say Hulk = strongest there is. The thing with Everything Burns is, Surtur having gathered enough energy in his body to destroy the universe was the very plot of the story. Saying the whole plot was just speculation and Odin, Thor, Loki and everyone else was just worried about it seems a little odd.

But i see you agreed.

Odin was also only channeling his energy away because no one at Primes level punches him in the head during this

Yes i never said otherwise but that is all that he needs to do in order to protect himself when Monarch armor is ripped apart, which RKT should have no problem doing.

About Prime being able to punch his head in, skyfathers dont get KOed so easily as you think. if someone like Mangog is incapable of harming a weakened Odin, i dont see why Superman Prime would be much use, while i would put Mangog above Superboy prime but NOT Superman Prime, i dont think the difference is huge.

Also RKT could try to drain Prime but Monarch would not stand still and look at this or tryin some fusion dance moves I think.

That is easily taken care of because one of the ability Odin Force gives his time manipulation, as in ability to outright stop time. Odin has done it, Thor with Odin Force has done it, so no reason to believe RKT couldnt, and RKT was Odin Force Thor amped up with powers of Rune.

So Monarch could also amp SMP´s powers to a higher level or simple stoping RKT from draining Prime with a huge Blast or Melee attacks.

Would you have anything to show Monarch can amp people? I cant recall this Monarch doing so. Yes a previous Monarch could, but that was Hank Hall with powers of Time Trapper, this is Captain Atom and apart from Monarch suit they dont really have anything in common.

Physicaly is Monarch at Primes level at least.

Durability wise yeah i would agree, physical strength not so much. Make no mistake i put Monarch as more powerful than Prime whom i would put much more powerful than World War Hulk (not sure what he is doing here anyways :p ), but physically stronger than Prime is a bit questionable. He doesnt have a lot of feat to show Physical strength above Superman level being, durability though he has plenty of feats.

About Monitors to be multiversal ,so ability to survive a universal bust, their origin and ability to switch betweem universers is a evidence for me to be higher than universal.

Monitors did not tank a universal blast, their shield did. That shows they are technologically savvy, after all this is a race of being that have existed for centuries and they dont die of old age. Thats a showing of tech not power.

As per ability to jump universe, Thor, Quasar and Thanos all of them can. Quasar has even gone outside Prime Multiverse to new universe. Then we have Ultimate Thor, teleporting outside the multiverse, what would you say of their power level (616 has not gone outside multiverse though)

I dont think teleportation power should show anything.

If DC is no able to find a utilization for Monitors to spezialized their abilities like Marvel does, it´s finally only up to you what you gonna to think about them.

Fair enough although we saw them for a whole story arc and they did have quite a bit of appearance during Countdown and Final crisis.

LT for exaple has also no feats about his durality if I´m not mistaken but everybody assume that he is able to tank a galaxy or universal bust without any attention.

Firstly LT does have few nice feats, like being completely unaffected by a blast from IG that floored every other abstract including Eternity, but people think he is more powerful than that.

If you are wondering why, LT has been outright stated to be more powerful than everyone else,and only second to TOAA in prime multiverse. Then we have every single abstract sucking up to him.

Monitor instance is very different. We have seen them scared of Prime, then Darkseid, then Monarch a multiversal being should have no problem with either of them.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall Well Prime is already durable enough to take a universal explosion, (despite that he didn't stay conscious.)

I still dont see how that feat counts at all. What does that feat show, that he can be KOed by universal explosion. And all he needs is to be KOed. That feat essentially in a battle forum, unless its the fight to the death is meaningless. His second beat feat would be surviving the explosion of a planet without a scratch which is good but not sufficient to suggest he can hang on at this level.

RKT never showed anything close to universal level, and then you add in their resistance to magic, it would take a good deal of time to seriously injure Prime.

RKT hasnt actually busted a universe, but we have multi galaxy busting fight between Odin and Seth, and RKT has been confirmed to be more powerful. Also i do not see why a universal blast is needed, as the universal feat shows us absolutely nothing about how much he can tank without being KOed all we have to go by is his next best feat which is very below par.

Resistance to magic isnt going to help against someone this powerful. What stopping RKT from stopping time and hitting him say a billion times before he starts the fight over again. Entirely possible, totally out of character though but then its morals off encounter.

As for time manipulation: I don't know whether or not Prime can time travel or not, (he might be able to since he's supposedly faster than Flash,) but since you've raised time control, I'll raise speed blitzing. How will Thor handle millions of punches to the face before stopping time crosses his mind?

I am not saying time travel i am saying outright stopping time.

As per speed blitzing you are assuming prime is million times faster than Thor, sadly prime doesnt have speed feat to show for. He doesnt have a single quantifiable reaction feat, and the best we have is him spinning around in circles to hit Flash doesnt still say a lot about his feats.

Perhaps you could come up with some reaction feat that shows him that much faster than Thor i am open to be proven wrong.

@Killemall: From the perspective of Earth it is definitely magical. It definitely isn't a force that follows the laws of Physics.

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Killemall: From the perspective of Earth it is definitely magical. It definitely isn't a force that follows the laws of Physics.

It isn't earth, it's Asgard....

@Alyssabird:Yes, but that doesn't stop it from being magic. That is why everything concerning it is still addressed in magical terms.

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Alyssabird:Yes, but that doesn't stop it from being magic. That is why everything concerning it is still addressed in magical terms.

Or is it?

@Alyssabird:Yep, it is :)

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Alyssabird:Yep, it is :)

realli?

@Killemall: Yeah, but Rkt did defeat the shadow people, which Odin could not even comprehend. He ended the ragnarok cycle, and made surtur his b*tch. Odin destroyed multiple galaxies and shook the multiverse with his powers, So I would say Rune King Thor is multiple galaxy buster or even a universe buster. Rune King Thor made surtur his b*tch which is huge since Surtur pwns Odin's butt everytime. So, yeah Rune king thor wins. Even if RKT's power is not enough, he always has his omniscient which could help him defeat Superman because of his fragile mind, plus that he wil always be 10 steps ahead of monarch due to his omniscience. World war hulk dies in 1 femtosecond.

@SpectroRaphael said:

Monarch & Superman Prime take this. Superman Prime is invulnerable to magic, so RKT is useless against him. WWH would just get stomped by either of them anyway. Plus Monarch could potentially drain WWH of energy (don't think he can affect magic though.)

Okay, first off Superman is not immune to magic, he is resistant to it. He won't be hurt by the magic of black adam or captain marval but elder god lvl magic will hurt him. Plus if magic does not hurt him, RKT is omniscient, he will know what superman is thinking and will always be 10 steps ahead of him. Plus Superman's weakness is his fragile mind. Thor could destroy him with his omniscience because of that weakness Prime has.

@Alyssabird:Yep. Ask Thor. Or any other of the pantheons.

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Alyssabird:Yep. Ask Thor. Or any other of the pantheons.

OHREALLI?

@Epicbeast3000:This isn't Superman. It's Superman Prime, the grown version of Superboy Prime who IS immune to magic. No magic whatsoever harms him. I am pretty sure that includes all forms of magic including RKT's supposed omniscience. He won't be able to garner anything from him. Plus knowing that you are about to get the crap beaten out of you & you can't do anything but run away isn't really helpful.

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Epicbeast3000:This isn't Superman. It's Superman Prime, the grown version of Superboy Prime who IS immune to magic. No magic whatsoever harms him. I am pretty sure that includes all forms of magic including RKT's supposed omniscience. He won't be able to garner anything from him. Plus knowing that you are about to get the crap beaten out of you & you can't do anything but run away isn't really helpful.

REALLI?

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Killemall: From the perspective of Earth it is definitely magical. It definitely isn't a force that follows the laws of Physics.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Neither does power cosmic not sure how following physics helps.

Also can you show me 1 scan that says prime is immune to magic?

everyone is forgettig, rkt is blood lusted lol, warriors madness! yikes!

Quick word about feats and Rune King Thor: no, he doesn't have a lot of feats. However, I think it was already mentioned that he defeated "those who sit above in shadow", whom Odin was subject to however many cycles of Ragnarok. Thor DID what Odin could not. Then there is the feat of Thor tanking haymakers from Mangog without even really noticing, then casually sending him into nothingness, keeping Loke alive all the while, he is separated from his own head. No, there are not a lot of feats for Rune King Thor, but enough, in my opinion to call him superior in power to Odin, who is a known galaxy buster.

Monarch is a royal beast...but to put him the level of a skyfather, particularly of that magnitude? Hmmmm....

While Monarch's powers are much more concrete (ridiculous strength, crazy energy power...), Rune King Thor's are obviously more mystical based. I suppose my question would be: does Monarch have any feats against high end magic users? That fight could go either way.

The fight between WWHulk and Prime? Gonna go with Prime because of a serious speed adavantage. Once Banner is down, then it's Prime AND Monarch against Rune King Thor. I would say that puts this match decidedly in favor of team DC.

@Epicbeast3000 said:

@Killemall: Yeah, but Rkt did defeat the shadow people, which Odin could not even comprehend.

This feat is often blows out of proportion. He did not fight and beat them in a straight up fight all he did was cut off their sustenance, which was Ragnarok cycle. The reason he faired better against Odin was because his humanity let him do things Those Who Sit in the Shadows couldnt predict.

He ended the ragnarok cycle, and made surtur his b*tch.

Well ending Ragnarok cycle only required him to destroy the thread a fate not really that huge feat and he doesnt even fight Surtur. Not sure where you got the second part from.

Odin destroyed multiple galaxies and shook the multiverse with his powers, So I would say Rune King Thor is multiple galaxy buster or even a universe buster.

Fair enough.

Rune King Thor made surtur his b*tch which is huge since Surtur pwns Odin's butt everytime.

I do not agree with the first part as all RKT did was broke the barrier imprisoning Surtur and let him free, the second part is false. Surtur has only beaten Odin twice, Odin has beaten Surtur many other times, even when Surtur had joined forces with Ymir.

@SpectroRaphael said:

Prime who IS immune to magic.

Based on what? Could you show me one instance where he has been stated to be immune to magic?

No magic whatsoever harms him. I am pretty sure that includes all forms of magic including RKT's supposed omniscience. He won't be able to garner anything from him.

Does he really have anything more impressive than tanking hits from Black Adam, some fodder pellets from old senile Mordru or Kimnet? Coz it looks like a huge leap to see oh magic from them didnt work on him so none would work on him?

@Epicbeast3000: weak minded is no way to describe superman prime..the opposite actually. He processes information so fast im not sure being able to read it would help rkt.

@Funcake said:

All in one: Sounds like you be little hurted, I´ll answer someone who seems to a be more adult person. Sorry no time for people who trys to insult someone. Grow up a bit reread you scans and relax.

Concession accepted.

Now make sure you dont talk crap like SpectroRaphael: without ever having read the issue

@Alyssabird:YEP!

@Killemall:It's all in Countdown. Ask Mr. Mxy.

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Killemall:It's all in Countdown. Ask Mr. Mxy.

Its not in countdown and the reason he did so well against Mxy has nothing to do with his immunity to magic, but rather because he had Zatanna Prime depowering him.

So scan of him showing immunity to magic please?

@Killemall:Black Adam & Mordru while he was still Superboy, Annataz Arataz & Mr Mxy while Superman. All of them had no effect, and you know if Mxy had no effect, RKT has no hope!

@Alyssabird said:

@logy5000 said:

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

This is a Thor Vs Superman battle in disguise...

Superman>Hulk

RKT>Monarch

Reasons?

Just going off of feats RKT is multi-galaxy level. Monarch has the potential to be universal level.

Multi Galaxy Level, hmm, your way incorrect on that. Than I also forgot, your a Thor hater and Superman fanboy.

I'm not a Thor hater and I'm not a Superman fanboy. And unlike you, I can back up my claims. You continue to just say: "nu-uh." You are in no position for name calling when it seems quite clear that you're trolling.

@logy5000 said:

@Alyssabird said:

@logy5000 said:

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

This is a Thor Vs Superman battle in disguise...

Superman>Hulk

RKT>Monarch

Reasons?

Just going off of feats RKT is multi-galaxy level. Monarch has the potential to be universal level.

Multi Galaxy Level, hmm, your way incorrect on that. Than I also forgot, your a Thor hater and Superman fanboy.

I'm not a Thor hater and I'm not a Superman fanboy. And unlike you, I can back up my claims. You continue to just say: "nu-uh." You are in no position for name calling when it seems quite clear that you're trolling.

Your not backing up anything, you're speculating and assuming; wheres the validation in that? Also, I'm not trolling, I didn't respect your support of the troller on my previous thread, thankyou very much, Alyssa

@Killemall: Prime has shown resistance to magic and that's what Thor is practically made of. Correct, we know that a universal level attack KO'ed him, but Thor's best feats are a hundred billion times below that & Prime is very resistant to magic. I don't see Thor doing a whole lot of damage to him without charging up multiple godblasts. Prime escaped the speed force BEFORE his guardian amp and that should be more than enough to put his speed far above Thor's. Thor can stop time, but can he stop time before Prime can land countless blows?

@Alyssabird said:

@logy5000 said:

@Alyssabird said:

@logy5000 said:

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

This is a Thor Vs Superman battle in disguise...

Superman>Hulk

RKT>Monarch

Reasons?

Just going off of feats RKT is multi-galaxy level. Monarch has the potential to be universal level.

Multi Galaxy Level, hmm, your way incorrect on that. Than I also forgot, your a Thor hater and Superman fanboy.

I'm not a Thor hater and I'm not a Superman fanboy. And unlike you, I can back up my claims. You continue to just say: "nu-uh." You are in no position for name calling when it seems quite clear that you're trolling.

Your not backing up anything, you're speculating and assuming; wheres the validation in that? Also, I'm not trolling, I didn't respect your support of the troller on my previous thread, thankyou very much, Alyssa

What statement have I not backed up?

I don't remember supporting a troll, and name calling is generally considered the work of a troll.

@Killemall:He resisted Zatanna Prime & was immune to Mxy anyway, using her to restrain him. Do you really think Zatanna is enough to depower a 5th dimensional imp?

He was also easily resistant to Mordru who has high level magicks. BA is powered by magic from Egyptian gods & he said all it did was tickle.

@Killemall:You were right about that. I looked it up again, and Mxy is a reality warper, so he should be able to affect Prime so Prime got Annataz to restrain him. She did however acknowledge that magic does zilch to him.

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Killemall:Black Adam & Mordru while he was still Superboy, Annataz Arataz & Mr Mxy while Superman. All of them had no effect, and you know if Mxy had no effect, RKT has no hope!

1. Black ADam isnt a mage user worth mentioning when you compare him with RKT

2. It was a old senile version of Mordru not the 20th or 30th Century Mordru we know.

3. It was never stated he resisted Zatanna's magic, just that Zatanna was somehow scared of him.

4. Same against it was never stated, or even alluded that he was immune to Mxy Magic, if he was, he wouldnt have asked Zatanna to magically depower him now will he.

So no i dont buy it.

@SpectroRaphael said:

@Killemall:You were right about that. I looked it up again, and Mxy is a reality warper, so he should be able to affect Prime so Prime got Annataz to restrain him. She did however acknowledge that magic does zilch to him.

She did , would you happen to have a scan? I will look through it and get back.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: Prime has shown resistance to magic and that's what Thor is practically made of.

Thor is not made up of Magic, he isnt a juggernaut. And Prime has shown resistance to magic, nothing to suggest he can tank magic at this level.

Correct, we know that a universal level attack KO'ed him, but Thor's best feats are a hundred billion times below that & Prime is very resistant to magic.

Still disagree. Could you show me something that would illude that anything say a billion times less powerful than a universe busting attack cant KO Prime. Anything to suggest he can tank a galaxy busting attack without getting KOed. Just 1 feat please.

I don't see Thor doing a whole lot of damage to him without charging up multiple godblasts.

We can agree to disagree here.

Prime escaped the speed force BEFORE his guardian amp and that should be more than enough to put his speed far above Thor's.

Again you are talking about speed that was not shown and was likely travel. Thor can travel far beyond light speed himself, not sure why that should put him above Thor. Thor has travel 2x the speed of light rather consistently, even AvX attests to this.

Thor can stop time, but can he stop time before Prime can land countless blows?

That is what i am asking, a proof that Prime is that much faster than Thor.

Superman has nanosecond reaction time, so he is faster than Thor. Prime doesnt.

@Killemall: I'm quite unconvinced that an explosion that is 1/100,000,000,000 of Monarch's will have the exact same effect. I may be wrong, but for now I'm not convinced that Prime will be knocked out.

SBP was at least on par with lightspeed, (that should be an understatement.) And again SMP was at least 10x above SBP. I don't see why Prime isn't faster than Thor.

In the fight between Monarch & Prime, there was 1 panel where Prime dodged Monarch's blast. Energy moves at lightspeed. So Prime should be able to dodge Thor's blasts.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: I'm quite unconvinced that an explosion that is 1/100,000,000,000 of Monarch's will have the exact same effect. I may be wrong, but for now I'm not convinced that Prime will be knocked out.

Thats personal preference, we are agree to disagree. The only reason why Monarch lost was because he under-estimated Prime.

SBP was at least on par with lightspeed, (that should be an understatement.) And again SMP was at least 10x above SBP. I don't see why Prime isn't faster than Thor.

I dont understand, so is Thor. Thor can travel at multiple speed of light, has travel faster than the seed of light many times. Its not the travel speed we are talking about its the reaction. Being lightspeedster doesnt help against Thor, having a nanosecond reaction time does.

And there is nothing to say SMP Was 10X above SBP not sure where you got that from.

In the fight between Monarch & Prime, there was 1 panel where Prime dodged Monarch's blast. Energy moves at lightspeed. So Prime should be able to dodge Thor's blasts.

There are numerous instance where Thor has dodged similar blast, in fact Captain America, Spiderman, Punisher , Batgirl (Cassy) have all done so. Quite Consistently. Doesnt mean your reflexes are light speed or anything.

Thor just need to be able to stop time before he gets blitz, from where i stand i see nothing to suggest Prime could blitz him.

@Killemall: I'm not saying Prime beat Monarch just because he's more powerful, I'm bringing up the fact that he tanked the destruction of a universe.

I don't see why Prime isn't multiple times faster than light. If he isn't, Superman would always beat him.

You don't think SMP was 10x greater than SBP? Do you think SBP could withstand 10,000,000,000 galaxies exploding in his face?

And since Prime can dodge Monarch's blasts, why not Thor's?

Also, even if Thor can beat Prime, (which I'm still leaning towards no,) he'll be distracted from Monarch. Monarch would definitely be able to injure Thor enough for Prime to finish him.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: I'm not saying Prime beat Monarch just because he's more powerful, I'm bringing up the fact that he tanked the destruction of a universe.

And he did not tank in per say, he got knocked out, which is fairly substantial.

I don't see why Prime isn't multiple times faster than light. If he isn't, Superman would always beat him.

Travel speed perhaps, but so is Thor.

As per the second part, cant we say the same thing about Superman vs Despero, Superman vs Darkseid, or Thor vs Silver Surfer and Thor vs Gladiator?

You don't think SMP was 10x greater than SBP? Do you think SBP could withstand 10,000,000,000 galaxies exploding in his face?

Well neither did SMP, he was knocked out. And had it been SBP the same would have been true because they wouldnt kill the character for no reason. Not to mention the Galaxies were never shown to be destroyed but rather the life in the universe were terminated. The planet was there as we can see light signing on a plant, likely the stars were ok as well.

And since Prime can dodge Monarch's blasts, why not Thor's?

Not sure where you are getting at, point was Prime has shown nothing to suggest he can beat Thor before Thor stops time then i dont see where the dodging thing is coming from?

Also, even if Thor can beat Prime, (which I'm still leaning towards no,) he'll be distracted from Monarch. Monarch would definitely be able to injure Thor enough for Prime to finish him.

We can agree to disagree but RKT should have absolutely no problem beating Prime from where i stand.

Monarch best feat is one shotting superman, certainly insufficient to suggest he can do much harm to Thor.

Then Monarch himself has no answer to Thor stopping time.

@Killemall: Prime withstood magic from Mordru and laughed. Now we're taking the gaurdian amped version, who was far above his boy version.

I understand that Prime was knocked out. But he survived it. Survival and consciousness are completely different. What's to suggest that Thor would withstand the explosion?

What I'm trying to say is that if Prime can dodge energy from Monarch, why not Thor. But to me it looks like you're pretty set on time control for right now.

You believe that Prime doesn't stand a chance against RKT. And I believe that Prime should beat RKT after a good fight. My reasons: RKT was galaxy level; the eradication of all life in a universe failed to kill Prime. (And he was so drained of his amp at that point that he was almost just regular SBP.) I doubt that Thor's attacks will have the exact same effect as one that is billions of times more powerful.

Prime doesn't even have to be 2x ftl to blitz Thor. How many times could Prime punch Thor before he could wave his hand?

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: Prime withstood magic from Mordru and laughed. Now we're taking the gaurdian amped version, who was far above his boy version.

A old senile Mordru who was scared of LOSH need help from society of evil and still lost. Not much to show for when you compare to this level. Had it been the real Mordru that we keep seeing i would have agreed.

Guardian makes him durable, nothing about increasing his resistance is ever mentioned as far as i remember.

I understand that Prime was knocked out. But he survived it. Survival and consciousness are completely different.

I still dont understand since he was KOed thats a very hard argument to put forward for his durability because it shows us absolutely nothing about what his durability is. Then we are ignoring a nuke level explosion had Prime crying in pain. His second best durability and pretty clear at that is being unscratched by the explosion of a planet.

Being alive is inconsequential.

What's to suggest that Thor would withstand the explosion?

Did not post the whole instance of Odin rather easily channeling energy capable of destroying universe with 1 hand?

What I'm trying to say is that if Prime can dodge energy from Monarch, why not Thor.

When did i say he cant dodge Thor's attack, but of course he cant once Thor stops time.

But to me it looks like you're pretty set on time control for right now.

I am yes sounds like a valid tactic.

You believe that Prime doesn't stand a chance against RKT. And I believe that Prime should beat RKT after a good fight. My reasons: RKT was galaxy level; the eradication of all life in a universe failed to kill Prime. (And he was so drained of his amp at that point that he was almost just regular SBP.)

In comparison i would say Odin with one hand channeled an energy that was said to be capable of destroying the whole universe, seems to me like a very comparable feat.

The Galaxy level is inconsequential, thats the measure of power output, Superman Prime is Planetary level because its the best destruction he has shown on panel. He hasnt even busted a solar system let alone a galaxy.

I doubt that Thor's attacks will have the exact same effect as one that is billions of times more powerful.

Prime doesn't even have to be 2x ftl to blitz Thor. How many times could Prime punch Thor before he could wave his hand?

I understand your point, but the problem being can you show me something that shows he can tank a blast above planetary without getting KOed. You are using an instance where he was KOEd and saying a blast of far less magnitude wont KO him.

I can use similar approach.

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If this blast had him crying in pain, i could just as easily say a blast leagues and bounds more powerful than this should KO him.

Why should by deduction based on an inconclusive instance (prime crying and not being KOed) should be regarded lower than yours (Prime KOed but not killed) , when the difference between the magnitude of attacks are similar.

Prime doesn't even have to be 2x ftl to blitz Thor.

You are still talking about travel speed, Thor has travelled much faster than Prime has run. So no even if Prime is 100X FTL in travel doesnt change the fact.

Can you show me one instance where Prime has been stated to fight at light sped, or fight at 2 X light speed than i agree.

How many times could Prime punch Thor before he could wave his hand?

Based on reaction feat Prime and Monarch has shown, likely 0.

@Killemall: I heard somewhere that Prime was susceptible to quantum energy, which is why his explosions hurt Prime. Magic is a completely different subject.

How can Thor channel Monarch's energy when Prime is punching him?

Energy moves at light-speed. Prime dodged energy blasts, so shouldn't his reaction speed be on par with light at least?

Also, when Prime was in his boy form, he withstood blasts from 3 skyfathers without any injuries whatsoever. (Sinestro Corps war.)

Reaction speed isn't necessary when all you have to do is fly up to a guy and punch him. If Prime can fly at lightspeed, he can fly back and forth countless times before Thor has time to wave his hand.

Prime also beat the crap out of Ion, (who isn't on RKT's level, but still.) And he was able to fly through the inside of Anti-Monitor; AM is like Monarch in a way since his suit contains his energies. AM roasted a Guardian by gently grabbing him with his fingers. Prime flew through the very core of his energies and wasn't hurt at all.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: I heard somewhere that Prime was susceptible to quantum energy, which is why his explosions hurt Prime. Magic is a completely different subject.

Certainly never seen that on panel, and i have read virtually every issue of Prime. So sorry but i am discounting that statement unless showing can show me a scan or quote a issue number.

How can Thor channel Monarch's energy when Prime is punching him?

Wait, what are we talking about again? Monarch has never shown universal blast , it happened when he died. Thor can beat Prime before Monarch died, in fact Thor can stop time and he doesnt have to worry about anything at all.

Energy moves at light-speed. Prime dodged energy blasts, so shouldn't his reaction speed be on par with light at least?

Not really no.

Lets look at few examples from Thor

Gallery

Example from street level hereos.

Damien Wayne

Captain America

Spiderman

Batman

Also, when Prime was in his boy form, he withstood blasts from 3 skyfathers without any injuries whatsoever. (Sinestro Corps war.)

Guardians are NOT skyfathers.

Reaction speed isn't necessary when all you have to do is fly up to a guy and punch him. If Prime can fly at lightspeed, he can fly back and forth countless times before Thor has time to wave his hand.

Thor can fly at light speed as well, in fact multiple times the speed of light. And has flown at that speed many times. In recent Astonishing Thor he outraced Ego who was travelling at light speed, he has outraced Silver Surfer not a straight line flight.

So yeah not really.

Prime also beat the crap out of Ion, (who isn't on RKT's level, but still.)

Because he used Lead against him, not to mention Kyle is the only one who has impressive feats with Ion, specially if you include Hand of God story arc.

Gallery

And he was able to fly through the inside of Anti-Monitor; AM is like Monarch in a way since his suit contains his energies.

Not much of a feat and he just passed through AM. the same AM who was weaken to begin with, had a green lantern central batter exploded on his face and faced a combined attack from guardians.

He was pretty weak at that time.

Gallery

@Killemall said:

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: I heard somewhere that Prime was susceptible to quantum energy, which is why his explosions hurt Prime. Magic is a completely different subject.

Certainly never seen that on panel, and i have read virtually every issue of Prime. So sorry but i am discounting that statement unless showing can show me a scan or quote a issue number.

How can Thor channel Monarch's energy when Prime is punching him?

Wait, what are we talking about again? Monarch has never shown universal blast , it happened when he died. Thor can beat Prime before Monarch died, in fact Thor can stop time and he doesnt have to worry about anything at all.

Energy moves at light-speed. Prime dodged energy blasts, so shouldn't his reaction speed be on par with light at least?

Not really no.

Lets look at few examples from Thor

Gallery

Example from street level hereos.

Damien Wayne

Captain America

Spiderman

Batman

Also, when Prime was in his boy form, he withstood blasts from 3 skyfathers without any injuries whatsoever. (Sinestro Corps war.)

Guardians are NOT skyfathers.

Reaction speed isn't necessary when all you have to do is fly up to a guy and punch him. If Prime can fly at lightspeed, he can fly back and forth countless times before Thor has time to wave his hand.

Thor can fly at light speed as well, in fact multiple times the speed of light. And has flown at that speed many times. In recent Astonishing Thor he outraced Ego who was travelling at light speed, he has outraced Silver Surfer not a straight line flight.

So yeah not really.

Prime also beat the crap out of Ion, (who isn't on RKT's level, but still.)

Because he used Lead against him, not to mention Kyle is the only one who has impressive feats with Ion, specially if you include Hand of God story arc.

Gallery

And he was able to fly through the inside of Anti-Monitor; AM is like Monarch in a way since his suit contains his energies.

Not much of a feat and he just passed through AM. the same AM who was weaken to begin with, had a green lantern central batter exploded on his face and faced a combined attack from guardians.

He was pretty weak at that time.

Gallery

Ah, I see your street-level form is improving fast :)

@laflux said:

Ah, I see your street-level form is improving fast :)

haha we all have to improve, still majority of issue i own and read are still cosmic based.

@Killemall: I believe Prime's reaction speed is better than Superman's because he's more powerful, but you're denying it because he's never shown it. I'll play the same game and say Thor can't channel Monarch's energy because he's never shown the ability.

How are the guardians not skyfathers?

Prime would have beaten Ion without the lead.

But my point was that a taste of AM's energy fried a guardian, and Prime went through him just fine.

On that subject, the guardians were bringing AM to his knees & breaking his armor. The same guardians didn't even scratch Prime.

@laflux: What do you mean?