• 62 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

who wins...i think this Kryptonians vs Daxamites...

#2 Posted by HolySerpent (12432 posts) - - Show Bio

Uuhhh superman.. Duhhh

#3 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

but,Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians..@HolySerpent said:

Uuhhh superman.. Duhhh
#4 Posted by HolySerpent (12432 posts) - - Show Bio

Really i never heard that, but that doesn't matter anyway because Monel can't compete with superman feats.

#5 Posted by SmoothJammin (2331 posts) - - Show Bio

Kryptonians and Daxamites are of the same strength levels. I suppose Superman because he's older and more experienced. His body/abilities are developed further

#6 Posted by Killemall (18173 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

Kryptonians and Daxamites are of the same strength levels. I suppose Superman because he's older and more experienced. His body/abilities are developed further

QFT

#7 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@SmoothJammin said:

Kryptonians and Daxamites are of the same strength levels. I suppose Superman because he's older and more experienced. His body/abilities are developed further

QFT

yep

#8 Posted by King Saturn (223730 posts) - - Show Bio
Superman would win in a tough fight with Mon-El.
#9 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

Well technically Valor AKA Mon El is suppose to be older . back in the days when i read these comics Valor was suppose to be 10 times stronger well i am not sure if my memory serves me right but i recall reading that and Superman use to get his assets handed to him quiet often by Valor.

#10 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
Superman.
#11 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne:

Do you know the old time days of Valor ? I am trying to remember what was said about his strength and power back then

#12 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever: He was pretty much hovering still in the realms of pre-crisis levels feats as Valor. Also Mon El in all his forms has always been older and more experienced in his powers than Superman.

#13 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@AMS said:

@termiteone4ever: He was pretty much hovering still in the realms of pre-crisis levels feats as Valor. Also Mon El in all his forms has always been older and more experienced in his powers than Superman.

That what i remembered . I dont recall him been Younger than superman or more Less experience . now days they make him a bit weaker and seems like he cant hang in fact he should and have been always more powerful and experience than superman in powers that how i remember him back in the days when i read his comics especially the ones with Eclipso

#14 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever: Yeah bro when the Crisis happened Supes and Krypto's still around got depowered but Mon El and the other Daxamites still around stayed pre crisis strength levels and when he was Valor he was still throwing around moons and lifting the cores out of stars still.

In the original Legion comics Superboy always said Mon El was stronger than him but yeah they've messed around with his and Daxam levels multiple times now like Mon El and Daxamities where always stated as stronger than Krypto's and used to not be affected by a Red Sun like Kryptos where and lead was there only weakness but they've changed all that as well.

It's not hard to see why so many people believe the misconception that Mon El is actually weaker than Superman when they've messed around with the continuity so much.

#15 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@AMS said:

@termiteone4ever: Yeah bro when the Crisis happened Supes and Krypto's still around got depowered but Mon El and the other Daxamites still around stayed pre crisis strength levels and when he was Valor he was still throwing around moons and lifting the cores out of stars still.

In the original Legion comics Superboy always said Mon El was stronger than him but yeah they've messed around with his and Daxam levels multiple times now like Mon El and Daxamities where always stated as stronger than Krypto's and used to not be affected by a Red Sun like Kryptos where and lead was there only weakness but they've changed all that as well.

It's not hard to see why so many people believe the misconception that Mon El is actually weaker than Superman when they've messed around with the continuity so much.

Yeah i see what you mean. Well not alot people on the vine knows this . Still its only goes back to the old days when i was really in to comics :) its all good tho .Thanks for the update. I am off to bed i am alive tomorrow i will for sure be on vine to live to argue another day :)

#16 Posted by Billy Batson (57706 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman
BB

Online
#17 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (22902 posts) - - Show Bio

@difficlus said:

@Killemall said:

@SmoothJammin said:

Kryptonians and Daxamites are of the same strength levels. I suppose Superman because he's older and more experienced. His body/abilities are developed further

QFT

yep

This.

Online
#20 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@AMS:

&

@termiteone4ever:

Yeah, Lar Gard/Mon-El/M'Onel/Valor's history is confusing, but I think the reason, at least Post-CRISIS/Post-INVASION! when they brought Lar Gand back to modern times, that Daxamites were considered superior to Kryptonians was they gain their powers faster under a yellow sun. But also lose them faster under a red sun, so unless they changed that, termite's wrong about Daxamites aren't effected by red suns.

Anyways AMS, if you're trying to argue Lar Gand>Superman by showing the moon throwing instance and showing Superman needed help to move the Moon, you're either purposely leaving-out context or just ignore of the circumstances. In the issue of JLA, they moved the Moon from it's orbit to Earth in moments, then after forcing the white Martians to surrender(because it was being dragged through Earth's atmosphere so fast it was on fire) they moved it back to it's proper orbit in moments, moving it at a good chunk of lightspeed. So just a tad more difficult than basic Moon-Moving. Even without getting to Superman's strength feats that are on another level, Superman's got several instances showing him moving moon-sized objects or destroying them. Haven't seen it, but read about a JLA special had him taking turns with Green Lantern holding the Moon in place when some weird quasi-mystical engines were trying to push it out of orbit, apparently as time went on, the force increased, and Superman had the last shift on his own. Then that special with Luthor becoming President, Superman sliced a small moon in half. Now for examples I can show.

Byrne-era Superman moves a space ship the size of a small moon, through hyperspace, which he states is the difficult part. Also, being Byrne era, this was when he still needed to breath, so it's an even more impressive accomplishment.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Strength/?action=view&current=theearthstealers-43.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Strength/?action=view&current=theearthstealers-44.jpg

Here Post-DOS Superman grabs a space ship he states is the size of a small moon, breaks it momentum(it just came out of hyperspace), and throws it with ease.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/MOS%2030/?action=view&current=supesmos-30-16.jpg

Here Superman destroys an asteroid large enough to "DEMOLISH Earth." Based on the current theory for how the Moon was formed(Mars-sized asteroid hit Earth, knocked a chunk off that became the Moon), this would have to be far larger than Mars.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=supermanmanofsteel0311994-09-02.jpg

As for the fight it's self, I've seen them fight twice, and heard of another(although M'Onel had other members of the Legion helping him). The one I can't post, from ECLIPSO: THE DARKNESS WITHIN, was pretty clear Superman was above Lar, at least in combat. Despite the fact that Superman had all the air knocked out of him(when he still needed to breath) and Lar had full lungs, Superman still beat Lar Gand unconscious while he was actually losing consciousness himself from, I guess suffocating? I dunno what you'd call it in a vacuum. The one I can post, Superman fights both Lar Gand and Lobo, although sorta not at the same time(until the end).

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-31.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-32.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-33.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-34.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-35.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-36.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-37.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-38.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/VS%20Lobo-Lar%20Gand/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSupermanAnnual02-39.jpg

So, far as I'm aware, aside from the Lar having help from multiple Legionaries(as I don't know how that ended), Superman and Lar Gand have fought twice, either with Lar having help(sorta) or Superman being handicapped, and the record's 2-0 for Superman.

#21 Posted by SmoothJammin (2331 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever:Off topic but do you know any good Mon-El stories I can jump into, I've always wanted to know more of him.

#22 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delta1938: You mention about out of context, I guess you forgot to mention that Lar Gand was possessed by Eclipso in that second fight....

#23 Posted by slick23 (460 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins due to being more experienced and just being more aware of what he is really capable of.

#24 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

@termiteone4ever:Off topic but do you know any good Mon-El stories I can jump into, I've always wanted to know more of him.

To tell the truth i havent seen any in while. The last i seen was when he was Green lantern which was a but too much . Tensor on here should have the Mon El series Covers send him a PM

#25 Posted by slick23 (460 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever said:

@SmoothJammin said:

@termiteone4ever:Off topic but do you know any good Mon-El stories I can jump into, I've always wanted to know more of him.

To tell the truth i havent seen any in while. The last i seen was when he was Green lantern which was a but too much . Tensor on here should have the Mon El series Covers send him a PM

Mon El had a good run during the new krpyton series, check it out, fun read. Mon-el replaced superman on metropolis for quite a brief time.

#26 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
They share similar powers but have two distinct weaknesses, Kryptonite and lead. The latter being far more harmful to the Daxamites, just being touched by it would permanently de-power and in most cases kill them. They share common DNA, the part that gives them there powers but this does not mean there full potential are exactly the same. Also Superman normally makes short work of most characters that share similar powers sets with him due to his training and the way he fights. He never tries to end battles fast, he lets them drag out so he can learn as much as possible in the battle granting him more skill in future battles.  
 
For example :
 I would give Superman the majority here based on fighting skill, experience, feats and the time he has been around soaking up Sun radiation making his physical stats superior.

 

 
#27 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@CapitolPunishment said:

They share similar powers but have two distinct weaknesses, Kryptonite and lead. The latter being far more harmful to the Daxamites, just being touched by it would permanently de-power and in most cases kill them. They share common DNA, the part that gives them there powers but this does not mean there full potential are exactly the same. Also Superman normally makes short work of most characters that share similar powers sets with him due to his training and the way he fights. He never tries to end battles fast, he lets them drag out so he can learn as much as possible in the battle granting him more skill in future battles.

For example :
I would give Superman the majority here based on fighting skill, experience, feats and the time he has been around soaking up Sun radiation making his physical stats superior.

This is the key fighting ability .

I use to use this argument in Thor Vs supes thread Supes too lol poor THor how would he stop this lol

#28 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

I think mon el is stronger .. but alas due to not being a key player he has not enought feats to topple a DC major character so superman wins.

#29 Posted by PowerHerc (80707 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins.

He's bigger, stronger, more skilled and more experienced.

#30 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

hum,thanks this thread ereyone...

Daxamites or Kryptonians who powerful..?

in this thread,http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/andromeda-vs-supergirl/641193/?page=1#identifier_6562332

"superman: the man of steel issue 60. superman is fighting a daxamite and thinks to himself that daxamite on earth is stronger than he is. they both get powered up under the yellow sun. but superman says the daxamite is stronger"

look at Daxamites is really stronger than Kryptonians...

#31 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

.....sigh,....Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians....this really.....

@termiteone4ever: @Delta1938: @HolySerpent: @SmoothJammin:

#32 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438 said:

.....sigh,....Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians....this really.....

@termiteone4ever: @Delta1938: @HolySerpent: @SmoothJammin:

I have never seen this i may have to look into this one .

#33 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever said:

@a88378438 said:

.....sigh,....Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians....this really.....

@termiteone4ever: @Delta1938: @HolySerpent: @SmoothJammin:

I have never seen this i may have to look into this one .

lol!my friend!

this from superman: the man of steel issue 60!

#34 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@AMS said:

@Delta1938: You mention about out of context, I guess you forgot to mention that Lar Gand was possessed by Eclipso in that second fight....

Mentioning that Eclipso was possessing Lar seemed irrelevant. Unless you can prove that Lar became much more effective in the 3 years(REAL time, not in the comics) between INVASION! and ECLIPSO: THE DARKNESS WITHIN. If anything it seemed like a asset because Eclipso bragged about since he possessed Superman, that he knew Superman's weaknesses. And that's all you're going to do? Focus on the ONE example you think you can refute(and haven't, since you failed to give a reason why this would hinder Lar) and ignore the other fight I gave(how Superman essentially one-shotted him) and ignore the numerous other examples I provided of Superman being able to handle moon-sized objects on his own that generally were more impressive than just moving a moon?

In response to the scan you provided, too bad that Superman had become more powerful since. And demonstratively so. But that scan isn't Lar Gand, is it? Exactly how does your scan prove Superman would lose when we have two instances of him losing to Superman, and as of yet no wins for Lar?

@CapitolPunishment: Oh yeah that fight was pretty awesome. More so because he also owned Owlman and Superwoman.

#35 Posted by SPM1M (782 posts) - - Show Bio

supes wins hes toppled many similar and tougher opponents like ultraman, zod, preus

#36 Posted by slick23 (460 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438 said:

@termiteone4ever said:

@a88378438 said:

.....sigh,....Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians....this really.....

@termiteone4ever: @Delta1938: @HolySerpent: @SmoothJammin:

I have never seen this i may have to look into this one .

lol!my friend!

this from superman: the man of steel issue 60!

A fight is not determined whose just "stronger" theres a lot of "strong" heavy weight boxers out there, but they still come up short against the all the time Greats because they only rely on being "strong."

Superman is far more skilled than Mon, and the fact that he knows how to utilize his powers better than any kryptonian is a feat itself. So as everyone is saying here, SUPERMAN WINS.

#37 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delta1938: Eclipso is a chump as proven when possessing anyone near remotely any decent or high tier, even in the driving seat of Superman, Eclipso was made to look like a chump in record time by Capt Marvel when normally it's a stalemate or long fight as we all well know that Marvel eventually wins if Supes is fighting him normally. Eclipso it's self claimed Mon El was more powerful than Superman but yet lost the fight............

If I drive a Formula One car terribly is it the cars fault? Anyone high tier getting possessed by Eclipso is almost an automatic downgrade in almost all cases.

You seem hung up on these two scans. The fact is, I posted them but where did I write anything saying after either or both. Your trying to put an argument and words into my mouth that I don't recall making.

The only things I have said so far and I qoute:

''Yeah bro when the Crisis happened Supes and Krypto's still around got depowered but Mon El and the other Daxamites still around stayed pre crisis strength levels and when he was Valor he was still throwing around moons and lifting the cores out of stars still''. = true.

''In the original Legion comics Superboy always said Mon El was stronger than him but yeah they've messed around with his and Daxam levels multiple times now like Mon El and Daxamities where always stated as stronger than Krypto's and used to not be affected by a Red Sun like Kryptos where and lead was there only weakness but they've changed all that as well.'' = true

@AMS said:

@termiteone4ever: He was pretty much hovering still in the realms of pre-crisis levels feats as Valor. Also Mon El in all his forms has always been older and more experienced in his powers than Superman.

= Again true, the downscale of Daxamites and Mon El was starting by then but he was still doing an occasional Pre Crisis level feat here and there on the way down to rock bottom.

''It's not hard to see why so many people believe the misconception that Mon El is actually weaker than Superman when they've messed around with the continuity so much.''

= True up until after Early Post Crisis he was stronger than Supes FACT. He and the Daxamites took a hell of a downgrade later on and especially in L.E.G.I.O.N. again FACT but the downscaling was inevitable because they couldn't have people keep doing Pre Crisis stuff any-more obviously and New Krypton while a great story pooped on him and Daxamites once again from above again retconning them and downscaling them, hence why I said it's not hard if people don't know the character think he's always been weaker. If you have only read the recent stuff with Mon El it's not hard to think he must be a lamer and weaker version of Supes when in fact he never was initially and only in modern times has taken up that mantle.

So again what do I have to refute?

That the 2 fights with Supes Post crisis are 1:1 to both and lame examples because both have extenuating circumstances in regards to Legion being there and Eclipso.

That if Supes was PC level he could push or pull a moon on his own?

That pushing a moon solo is a PC level feat?

Who isn't supposedly Mon El/Lar Gand? Cause last time I checked LO3W brought back the majority of past history back into continuity before the DCnU reboot.

#38 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@AMS said:

@Delta1938: Eclipso is a chump as proven when possessing anyone near remotely any decent or high tier, even in the driving seat of Superman, Eclipso was made to look like a chump in record time by Capt Marvel when normally it's a stalemate or long fight as we all well know that Marvel eventually wins if Supes is fighting him normally. Eclipso it's self claimed Mon El was more powerful than Superman but yet lost the fight............

If I drive a Formula One car terribly is it the cars fault? Anyone high tier getting possessed by Eclipso is almost an automatic downgrade in almost all cases.

You seem hung up on these two scans. The fact is, I posted them but where did I write anything saying after either or both. Your trying to put an argument and words into my mouth that I don't recall making.

The only things I have said so far and I qoute:

''Yeah bro when the Crisis happened Supes and Krypto's still around got depowered but Mon El and the other Daxamites still around stayed pre crisis strength levels and when he was Valor he was still throwing around moons and lifting the cores out of stars still''. = true.

''In the original Legion comics Superboy always said Mon El was stronger than him but yeah they've messed around with his and Daxam levels multiple times now like Mon El and Daxamities where always stated as stronger than Krypto's and used to not be affected by a Red Sun like Kryptos where and lead was there only weakness but they've changed all that as well.'' = true

@AMS said:

@termiteone4ever: He was pretty much hovering still in the realms of pre-crisis levels feats as Valor. Also Mon El in all his forms has always been older and more experienced in his powers than Superman.

= Again true, the downscale of Daxamites and Mon El was starting by then but he was still doing an occasional Pre Crisis level feat here and there on the way down to rock bottom.

''It's not hard to see why so many people believe the misconception that Mon El is actually weaker than Superman when they've messed around with the continuity so much.''

= True up until after Early Post Crisis he was stronger than Supes FACT. He and the Daxamites took a hell of a downgrade later on and especially in L.E.G.I.O.N. again FACT but the downscaling was inevitable because they couldn't have people keep doing Pre Crisis stuff any-more obviously and New Krypton while a great story pooped on him and Daxamites once again from above again retconning them and downscaling them, hence why I said it's not hard if people don't know the character think he's always been weaker. If you have only read the recent stuff with Mon El it's not hard to think he must be a lamer and weaker version of Supes when in fact he never was initially and only in modern times has taken up that mantle.

So again what do I have to refute?

That the 2 fights with Supes Post crisis are 1:1 to both and lame examples because both have extenuating circumstances in regards to Legion being there and Eclipso.

That if Supes was PC level he could push or pull a moon on his own?

That pushing a moon solo is a PC level feat?

Who isn't supposedly Mon El/Lar Gand? Cause last time I checked LO3W brought back the majority of past history back into continuity before the DCnU reboot.

Thanks for the memories . LOL i use to have all these comics most of them ripped and torn. I remember reading all this. Thats why i argued that Superman isnt as strong or couldnt really beat Valor/ La grande /Mon EL . This is strange i am not sure why DC depower them.

#39 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@slick23 said:

@a88378438 said:

@termiteone4ever said:

@a88378438 said:

.....sigh,....Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians....this really.....

@termiteone4ever: @Delta1938: @HolySerpent: @SmoothJammin:

I have never seen this i may have to look into this one .

lol!my friend!

this from superman: the man of steel issue 60!

A fight is not determined whose just "stronger" theres a lot of "strong" heavy weight boxers out there, but they still come up short against the all the time Greats because they only rely on being "strong."

Superman is far more skilled than Mon, and the fact that he knows how to utilize his powers better than any kryptonian is a feat itself. So as everyone is saying here, SUPERMAN WINS.

I know that strength alone isn't the only factor. I'm a HUGE MMA fan(which is actually a much, MUCH better analogy to use than boxing) and know how skill overcomes better strength. Hell, I know from personal experience, I've beaten guys bigger than me in street fights before. You don't have to tell me that being stronger does not automatically mean more powerful/more likely to win. I'm not a Hulk fanboy.

But my point was he was trying to prove that Lar Gand/Mon-El/M'Onel/Valor is stronger than Superman by showing a scan of Superman saying that Daxamites are stronger than Kryptonians and showing him fight someone other than Lar. It proves nothing as this is not Lar. And I think more than just being a better, more experienced fighter was a factor when he beat Lar(Eclipso-possessed or not) on the Moon when he was PASSING-OUT FROM HAVING THE AIR KNOCKED OUT OF HIM WHILE HE WAS IN A VACUUM. Plus, AMS seemed to argue that Superman is weaker than Lar because he required help moving the Moon, but Valor was able to throw one, leaving-out the context behind him moving it with help. He also, at the time I had responded to the Daxamite strength scan, had ignored the numerous other examples of Superman moving moons, or doing the equivalent, or greater if he's going to compare similar feats. Perhaps Lar Gand is stronger, but AMS has provided no evidence whatsoever unless you assume all Daxamites are equal to each other, and all Kryptonians are equal to each other

@AMS said:

@Delta1938: Eclipso is a chump as proven when possessing anyone near remotely any decent or high tier, even in the driving seat of Superman, Eclipso was made to look like a chump in record time by Capt Marvel when normally it's a stalemate or long fight as we all well know that Marvel eventually wins if Supes is fighting him normally. Eclipso it's self claimed Mon El was more powerful than Superman but yet lost the fight............

If I drive a Formula One car terribly is it the cars fault? Anyone high tier getting possessed by Eclipso is almost an automatic downgrade in almost all cases.

You seem hung up on these two scans. The fact is, I posted them but where did I write anything saying after either or both. Your trying to put an argument and words into my mouth that I don't recall making.

The only things I have said so far and I qoute:

''Yeah bro when the Crisis happened Supes and Krypto's still around got depowered but Mon El and the other Daxamites still around stayed pre crisis strength levels and when he was Valor he was still throwing around moons and lifting the cores out of stars still''. = true.

''In the original Legion comics Superboy always said Mon El was stronger than him but yeah they've messed around with his and Daxam levels multiple times now like Mon El and Daxamities where always stated as stronger than Krypto's and used to not be affected by a Red Sun like Kryptos where and lead was there only weakness but they've changed all that as well.'' = true

You haven't proven a single thing about Eclipso being a handicap for Lar Gand in the fight. Your entire argument comes down to, "Just because I want it to be." Saying Eclipso is a proven chump is just talk. Prove that Lar had become significantly more skilled between INVASION! and DARKNESS WITHIN. As for your claims about Captain Marvel prove Eclipso is a downgrade because Superman usually loses to Captain Marvel if he fights him normally.....

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman04-20.jpg

.http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman04-21.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman04-22.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman04-23.jpg

Yes, there's extenuating circumstances in this fight. But guess what? SUPERMAN is the one handicapped by them. He had fought two large and powerful groups of metahumans and had some of his solar energy drained before the fight, had been effected to an unknown but consistently increasing degree by Kryptonite since before he started all the fighting, and still made Captain Marvel look inferior despite CM starting the fight with a sneak-attack. The fights are not normally stalemates. Superman actually has the majority of wins, and this fight is a draw at worst with Superman showing superiority(including showing to be stronger, catching CM's punch) despite being weakened and worn down. hm What else?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Captain%20Marvel/ACTION%20COMICS%20ANNUAL%204/

Well here's how that fight ended for anybody who doesn't want to look through 15 pages.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Captain%20Marvel/ACTION%20COMICS%20ANNUAL%204/?action=view&current=actionannual4-047.jpg

"Killing you isn't worth losing this body!! Consider yourself lucky Marvel. Next time I won't let you off this easily." "Ooooohhh...How come I don't FEEL so lucky?" Oh and that was when Superman was possessed by "that chump" Eclipso. And if only I had the scans to that second fight where Eclipso possesses Superman and fights Captain Marvel. It doesn't end well for CM. And I understand your Formula 1 analogy, but you'll have to actually prove that Lar was significantly handicapped. He still would've been a rookie at this time.

In regards to what you quoted yourself, well didn't the Legion not actually get rebooted after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS until ZERO HOUR? Hence why Byrne had to create the whole Pocketverse Superboy because the Legion were still inspired by Superboy to become the LSH, and Byrne had it so he was never Superboy? But what are these Pre-CRISIS level feats Daxamites allegedly were still doing? I'd like to see a scan of this lifting the core out of a star. But throwing a moon? That's not Pre-CRISIS level.

@AMS said:

That the 2 fights with Supes Post crisis are 1:1 to both and lame examples because both have extenuating circumstances in regards to Legion being there and Eclipso.

That if Supes was PC level he could push or pull a moon on his own?

That pushing a moon solo is a PC level feat?

Who isn't supposedly Mon El/Lar Gand? Cause last time I checked LO3W brought back the majority of past history back into continuity before the DCnU reboot.

Like I pointed-out earlier, the "extenuating circumstances" you say handicapped Lar have yet to actually be proven to have been a handicap. You just saying it was doesn't prove anything. I showed Superman beating down Captain Marvel while possessed by Eclipso, referred to another instance, and hey I should point-out Eclipso-possessed Superman also owned Lobo. Now, even IF you can prove that Eclipso possessing Lar Gand was a handicap, don't you find it ridiculous that you're trying to say this fight shouldn't count? Since, ya know, SUPERMAN WAS PASSING-OUT FROM LACK OF AIR WHILE IN A VACUUM? I'd have to say that passing-out while fighting an opponent is a far, far greater handicap than a "chump" being the one controlling you. And you're trying to say that Superman fighting Lar-Gand, then Lobo, then Lar jumping back in is grounds to dismiss the entire fight? uh OK Superman one-shotting Lar Gand shouldn't count because he fought two top-tier bricks one after the other before knocking Lar out!! Great argument there. Superman's at a disadvantage in both fights, still wins, and you say because there's extenuating circumstances that they don't count.

Oh and your scan of what Eclipso says is cool and all, but words only mean so much. I want to see actual proof from action. Wonder Woman gets lots of lip service about being second only to Superman, and a close one at that, but not only has it been shown that Superman is just on another level than Wonder Woman(NUMEROUS times), but at least Captain Marvel and Orion are both stronger than her as well.

#40 Edited by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delta1938: If I'm crying ''"Just because I want it to be." then what have you been doing all this time when it's established on panel fact and in DC history than Mon El > Supes until into Legion Vol 3 and the Glorithverse when the downgrades started on him and Daxams? Mon El was stronger than Pre Crisis Superboy in Pre Crisis, yeahhhhhhhhh buddyyyyyyyyyyyyyy............

''Oh and your scan of what Eclipso says is cool and all, but words only mean so much''

Like you said with your own words; great argument there dude........

I was hoping you'd bring this up that is why I made the point initially cause I had a hunch you where going to bring it up sooner or later, ABC logic is great and everything but you might want to go read Lighting Strikes Twice.

You don't think it's PIS that two people stronger than Supes lose to him in that series. One Possessed by Eclipso and one fighting a Possessed Eclipso Superman? Now take this fight you clearly love and stack it up to what happens in Lighting Strikes twice, From going to a guy who can whoop a Eclipso possessed being stronger than him aka Mon El, to being possessed by Eclipso himself and beating Captain Marvel easily to one day being a Eclipso Supes running scared and using every dirty trick in the book.

So what? is Lighting Strikes twice PIS because the Boyscout doesn't beat Marvel this time with ease. But here is what i'm getting too, if Eclipso has enough power to blow up the moon in Brightest day, and in possessing Superman taking down a decent roster and making Capt Marvel look like a chumo in the Darkness Within then why when it possessed in it's own words a stronger being than Superman did it get taken out like chump unless it was in fact a chump...............

Your so hung up about these fights and you believe it's 2:0 to Supes when it's really 1:1 draw to them lol no matter how you try and argue it have I not already said they are lame fights? Do I talk about the whooping Supes got by Mon and the Legion as a great victory? No exactly cause it's lame and yet here you are trying to spin this Eclipso fight as some great victory for Supes when i've already proven it's nonsense and even when it's all said and done on the semantics of this fight guess what, they're still 1:1.

Laurel Gand and post crisis Dev Em look them up. Also starting off stronger than Kryptonians pre crisis and staying stronger than Krypto's until retconned and downgraded later post crisis = what, = they kept their pre crisis level strength for the duration until it was changed later....do keep up.

+ If you don't believe me about the Star feat then look up 'Legion of Super-Heroes v3 48: To Catch A Falling Star' as well.

If moving a moon solo isn't a pre crisis level feat then why has the only person in continuity with a S uniform post crisis to do it been Superboy Prime.......yeah oh snap............

Do your homework before trying to wrong foot me....

#41 Posted by ltbrd (557 posts) - - Show Bio

If we go back to the original Legion of Super-Hero continuity, way before Crisis and continuity started to get changed around, Superman and Mon-El were considered equals in terms of raw power but the big difference was in their weaknesses. Daxamites are not affected by Kryptonite and retain their powers longer when exposed to red solar radiation (which was changed in reboots to where Valor got smacked around by Ra's Al Ghul immediately upon being bathed in red solar ceiling lights). So once Mon-El got over the Daxamite weakness to lead his weaknesses were to a less degree than Superman's (well, Superboy at that time) and he could operate around Kryptonite. On the reverse side I remember reading in the original Legion comics that Mon-El's heat vision could only burn through the thinnest layers of lead, a restriction Superboy didn't have.

But the Legion comics always presented them as equals in power, with Ultra Boy able to equal each of their abilities one at a time.

Also, the majority of the time Mon-El is younger than Superman. It was only in the Legion comics that they were the same age. While he would technically be older by time of birth and time in the Phantom Zone, Mon-El is still younger in physical age to Superman because of his time in the Phantom Zone. Only the "Gloriverse" Valor version was the same age as Superman. I only bring this up for two reasons. 1) Superman has had more time to absorb solar radiation than Mon-El thus making his abilities inherintely stronger as Superman has not reached a declining point in his age (such as is being shown in the Superman Beyond comics) and 2) Superman has more experience with his powers given the time Mon-El has been in the Phantom Zone. This is seen in the Legion comics as well with Mon-El have trouble dealing with the rogue Daxamite working for the Dominators. Even with Ultra Boy's help he was only able to defeat the other Daxamite when Shadow Lass covered both of them in complete darkness because he was more used to fight in the dark. Whereas Superman has taken on the entire Justice League on occassion as well as multiple Kryptonians, most recently during the War of the Supermen.

Sure Mon-El could bring Kryptonite to the battle and be the clear victor but he's not going to do that and so in a straight up fight I give the victory to Superman.

#42 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@AMS said:

@Delta1938: If I'm crying ''"Just because I want it to be." then what have you been doing all this time when it's established on panel fact and in DC history than Mon El > Supes until into Legion Vol 3 and the Glorithverse when the downgrades started on him and Daxams? Mon El was stronger than Pre Crisis Superboy in Pre Crisis, yeahhhhhhhhh buddyyyyyyyyyyyyyy............

''Oh and your scan of what Eclipso says is cool and all, but words only mean so much''

Like you said with your own words; great argument there dude........

I was hoping you'd bring this up that is why I made the point initially cause I had a hunch you where going to bring it up sooner or later, ABC logic is great and everything but you might want to go read Lighting Strikes Twice.

You don't think it's PIS that two people stronger than Supes lose to him in that series. One Possessed by Eclipso and one fighting a Possessed Eclipso Superman? Now take this fight you clearly love and stack it up to what happens in Lighting Strikes twice, From going to a guy who can whoop a Eclipso possessed being stronger than him aka Mon El, to being possessed by Eclipso himself and beating Captain Marvel easily to one day being a Eclipso Supes running scared and using every dirty trick in the book.

So what? is Lighting Strikes twice PIS because the Boyscout doesn't beat Marvel this time with ease. But here is what i'm getting too, if Eclipso has enough power to blow up the moon in Brightest day, and in possessing Superman taking down a decent roster and making Capt Marvel look like a chumo in the Darkness Within then why when it possessed in it's own words a stronger being than Superman did it get taken out like chump unless it was in fact a chump...............

Your so hung up about these fights and you believe it's 2:0 to Supes when it's really 1:1 draw to them lol no matter how you try and argue it have I not already said they are lame fights? Do I talk about the whooping Supes got by Mon and the Legion as a great victory? No exactly cause it's lame and yet here you are trying to spin this Eclipso fight as some great victory for Supes when i've already proven it's nonsense and even when it's all said and done on the semantics of this fight guess what, they're still 1:1.

Laurel Gand and post crisis Dev Em look them up. Also starting off stronger than Kryptonians pre crisis and staying stronger than Krypto's until retconned and downgraded later post crisis = what, = they kept their pre crisis level strength for the duration until it was changed later....do keep up.

+ If you don't believe me about the Star feat then look up 'Legion of Super-Heroes v3 48: To Catch A Falling Star' as well.

If moving a moon solo isn't a pre crisis level feat then why has the only person in continuity with a S uniform post crisis to do it been Superboy Prime.......yeah oh snap............

Do your homework before trying to wrong foot me....

Good Lord, is English not your primary language? I'm getting a headache reading what you wrote. Anyways.....

How the Hell am I crying "Just because I want it to be" when you've not provided an actual showing to prove Lar>Superman? All that continuity you're referring to is irrelevant as we're not using Pre-CRISIS Lar-Gand(since you used a Post-CRISIS/Pre-New 52 fight) and all you've shown is statements, provided one fight between Superman and a Daxamite, and are arguing that it proves Lar-Gand>Superman. Speaking of that fight, funny thing.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Cil%20Gand/

Same issue, actually. Superman shows SUPERIOR strength to Cil Gand(by catching his punch) and beats him down, despite the fact he'd been fighting a "plasma creature" all night. And the Daxamite starts it off with a sucker punch.

'''Oh and your scan of what Eclipso says is cool and all, but words only mean so much'

Like you said with your own words; great argument there dude........"

Right there, proof that you're ignoring much of my arguments to suit your stance. Why don't you quote the entire thing I said? Hey, I'll do it for you.

"Oh and your scan of what Eclipso says is cool and all, but words only mean so much. I want to see actual proof from action. Wonder Woman gets lots of lip service about being second only to Superman, and a close one at that, but not only has it been shown that Superman is just on another level than Wonder Woman(NUMEROUS times), but at least Captain Marvel and Orion are both stronger than her as well."

There, that wasn't so hard. Now why did you dodge this? Screws-up your argument because you don't have an actual example, just a bunch of lip service about Daxamites>Kryptonians and hope people will assume all Daxamites are equally as powerful and all Kryptonians are equally powerful thus it will ALWAYS be Daxamite>Kryptonian no matter who's facing who?

In regards to your "hunch" about my "ABC logic," WHAT ABC Logic? 'Cuz I showed Eclipso-possessed Superman beating Captain Marvel? How is that ABC Logic? You made the claim that Captain Marvel should beat Superman, I proved you wrong. And you just claimed that Captain Marvel is stronger than Superman? Wow, you completely ignored my scans of the Superman/Captain Marvel fight where Superman was WORN DOWN, DRAINED AND EFFECTED BY KRYPTONITE and still at WORST fought CM to a draw while looking superior and showing superior strength by catching CM's punch, despite being in less than peak condition. Here's a reminder.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman04-23.jpg

See the top left panel? Yep, catching CM's punch. Oh wait, more proof that Superman's stronger than Captain Marvel? Well, Captain Marvel was only able to MATCH Superman in an arm wrestling match BEFORE Superman started getting the Mongul Jr. training that caused Superman to start overcoming the mental blocks that were surpressing his powers.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Captain%20Marvel/POWER%20OF%20SHAZAM%2046/?action=view&current=POS-046-12.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Captain%20Marvel/POWER%20OF%20SHAZAM%2046/?action=view&current=POS-046-13.jpg

And yes, I know Superman won the arm wrestling match because CM3 and Mary ended-up power-sharing. But that's irrelevant due to Captain Marvel(using BOTH the strength of Hercules AND Atlas)=Pre-NO LIMITS Superman in strength. Of course, you'll probably ignore this too.

And it so annoys me how people immediately resort to calling something "PIS" because they don't like they've been proven wrong. It's especially annoying when someone doesn't know how to use the damn term. What you're looking for is "Bad Writing" and you'd have to prove it, especially since you claimed Captain Marvel is stronger than Superman. And what's really funny is you're trying to use the second fight against me. "Running scared and using every dirty trick in the book?" Last I checked, Eclipso-Superman had knocked CM out in that fight(though CM got revived) and the "dirty tricks" he was using was trying to manipulate things to possess Captain Marvel, since a mystically powered body suited him better. It was actually Captain Marvel who started using the dirty tricks, but still lost in the end. And it's great that you think ONE example that you twist to make it seem like it helps your case somehow contradicts two other examples. Oh, and I'm not sure, but were you trying to argue Lobo's stronger than Superman too? If so, another laugh, but I want to clarify before I get further.

And it's great how you're claiming it's a draw between Superman and Lar Gand in victories just because you don't like it. Where exactly did Superman lose? And it's so hilarious how you COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FAIL to provide any LEGITIMATE examples(merely wishful thinking and slanted descriptions) that Eclipso possessing Lar was a serious handicap, but ignoring that Superman was much more significantly handicapped. And I'm STILL waiting for proof that Lar Gand became significantly improved in the 3 REAL-TIME years between INVASION! and DARKNESS WITHIN. 'Cuz he should've essentially still been a rookie, unless you can show improvements otherwise.

And how exactly is it that the record is tied between Superman and Lar Gand in your eyes? You never actually named Lar's alleged victory, merely said only one of the wins I pointed to counted. So far as I can see, you should be arguing it's 1-0 for Superman, not 1-1. Unless you're counting the fight that Superman had with the Daxamite in SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF STEEL #60? You only showed part of the fight, Superman actually won. Granted, it was due to lead effecting him, but that's certainly not a win. Then when he was fully charged, he still lost to Superman despite Superman was worn down and the Daxamite started it with a sucker punch. But this isn't even factoring that, if you ARE trying to argue that one page you showed(instead of the whole fight) between the Daxamite and Superman is a victory for Lar, that it's ridiculous and proves all you have is hoping that people believe you that Daxamites>Kryptonians in each and every single example, no matter who it is.

And what are you trying to argue by bringing up that I think Andromeda chick? Just as a way for you to again bring-up that Daxamites were superior to Kryptonians Pre-CRISIS? You're arguing the reboot apparently. And it's so hilarious that you're saying, "If moving a moon solo isn't a pre crisis level feat then why has the only person in continuity with a S uniform post crisis to do it been Superboy Prime.......yeah oh snap............" As I pointed-out, you left-out the fact that Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern were moving it at near-lightspeed, a whole lot more than just a solo-done moon-move. You also ignored the numerous examples I gave showing Superman moving moons, or moon-sized objects, numerous times, and some examples that were more impressive than just moving a moon(one-shot destroying a planet-sized asteroid, moving a space ship the size of a small moon through hyperspace). And it's extra hilarious that you think moon-moving is amazing. It's mediocre by Superman's standards. Or did you not know that? But if he did move the core of a star, and it's what you're acting like, that is impressive. Still inferior to what Superman's done, though.

You've shown to be ignorant(Captain Marvel stronger than Superman? LMAO!! And to make it worse, I showed proof otherwise) and unwilling to learn(at least I've been asking you for examples), ignore many of the points I've made and accuse me of using ABC Logic when I wasn't. And I'm the one who needs to do my homework? Thanks for the laugh.

#43 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

@slick23:@Delta1938:

Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians,even not,Daxamites is,more powerful than Kryptonians,so, Daxamites ">"Kryptonians not "="

#44 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438 said:

@slick23:@Delta1938:

Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians,even not,Daxamites is,more powerful than Kryptonians,so, Daxamites ">"Kryptonians not "="

So you're going to just once again ignore everything I say, including how the very comic you used as proof that Lar Gand is stronger than Superman(by showing Superman fight a DIFFERENT Daxamite) had a fight where Superman showed to be the stronger of the two?

#45 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

all Daxamites > all Kryptonians so,a Daxamites is more powerful than a Kryptonians

@Delta1938 said:

@a88378438 said:

@slick23:@Delta1938:

Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians,even not,Daxamites is,more powerful than Kryptonians,so, Daxamites ">"Kryptonians not "="

So you're going to just once again ignore everything I say, including how the very comic you used as proof that Lar Gand is stronger than Superman(by showing Superman fight a DIFFERENT Daxamite) had a fight where Superman showed to be the stronger of the two?

#46 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438 said:

all Daxamites > all Kryptonians so,a Daxamites is more powerful than a Kryptonians

@Delta1938 said:

@a88378438 said:

@slick23:@Delta1938:

Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians,even not,Daxamites is,more powerful than Kryptonians,so, Daxamites ">"Kryptonians not "="

So you're going to just once again ignore everything I say, including how the very comic you used as proof that Lar Gand is stronger than Superman(by showing Superman fight a DIFFERENT Daxamite) had a fight where Superman showed to be the stronger of the two?

Yep, ya got nothing so you're just going to plug your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALAL I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" and hope I leave so you can say you win.

#47 Posted by a88378438 (3421 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delta1938 said:

@a88378438 said:

all Daxamites > all Kryptonians so,a Daxamites is more powerful than a Kryptonians

@Delta1938 said:

@a88378438 said:

@slick23:@Delta1938:

Daxamites is stronger than Kryptonians,even not,Daxamites is,more powerful than Kryptonians,so, Daxamites ">"Kryptonians not "="

So you're going to just once again ignore everything I say, including how the very comic you used as proof that Lar Gand is stronger than Superman(by showing Superman fight a DIFFERENT Daxamite) had a fight where Superman showed to be the stronger of the two?

Yep, ya got nothing so you're just going to plug your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALAL I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" and hope I leave so you can say you win.

I don't know what you mean, sorry, but my English is very poor, the expression is not good, if you laugh at me, I understand

#48 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

Well the "LALALALALALAA" it's self wasn't laughing at you. In America, when people(mostly kids) don't want to hear something, they use their fingers to plug their ears and start saying "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" to drown-out what they don't want to hear, often followed with "I can't hear you!!" Like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMLHh8KvxVE

#49 Posted by Killemall (18173 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438 said:

all Daxamites > all Kryptonians so,a Daxamites is more powerful than a Kryptonians

This is NOT true, can you show me where it has been expressly writtern than Daxamites are stronger and more powerful than Kryptonians?

Based on feats they have performed its quite obvious that they are on same level. Some Daxamites might be stronger than Kryptonians, some would be less. Its like saying british ppl are stronger than chinese ppl. Someone might be some might not be.

@Delta1938: Feats would clearly indicate that Superman is indeed stronger than Mon El, but trust me mate you will have few ppl deny that blatantly :p

#50 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Delta1938: Feats would clearly indicate that Superman is indeed stronger than Mon El, but trust me mate you will have few ppl deny that blatantly :p

I'm not even arguing Superman's big feats. He tried to argue that Lar>Superman because of comparing some moon-moving examples and pointed-out Superman required help, leaving-out that they were moving it at a good portion of lightspeed. Then he posted a scan of Superman thinking to himself that Daxamites are stronger, and acted like that proved him right. I did some digging, and the Daxamite in that issue actually lost twice to Superman, in the rest of the fight that the poster formerly known as AMS left-out(although lead was involved), and another where Superman had been fighting a "plasma creature" all night, the Daxamite teleports in and sucker-punches Superman in the back of the head, and the guy controlling the Daxamite states the Daxamite's strength is restored. Superman, despite having fought for hours and getting sneak-attacked, not only beats the Daxamite down, but actually catches the guy's punch, showing he's stronger. But AMS left that fight out.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Cil%20Gand/