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#51 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Buckshot says:
"Valkaad says:
"Doomsday was not made of Kryptonite or Magic and he killed superman with physical force. If a certain level of physical force can kill superman then why would he be immune to molecular rearrangement. Invisible woman and Colossus both have limited endurance. They can only exert themselves for a finite amount of time before mental/physical fatigue sets in and they have to rest. Molecule man on the other hand has the ability to exert his powers all the time he can restructure his body in any way possible. Molecule man's powers affect ALL molecules, he can even restructure elements (something the surfer can't even do) so Superman's body would be like putty in his hand. AS far a creating force field strong enough to repel superman Why couldn't he do it? He can make molecules do anything yes ANYTHING, so creating an invulnerable force field wouldn't be that hard for him to accomplish. "
Yes, Doomsday, the monster created by super-accelerated evolution and lived hundreds, if not thousands of lives ON KRYPTON was not *made* of Kryptonite. Fine, I'll concede that point. While Invisible Woman has been shown to have limits on her forcefields, Piotr can stay metal indefinitely. Like I said, while your theory on Molecule Man's ever-present forcefield makes sense, it's just an unproven theory. Assuming he can make an indestructible force field, how does he do it faster than Superman can kill him? Also, can light get through? If so, laser vision works. If not, it still works because I've seen him use it as a sub-atomic scalpel. It would slip past the force field since it's only on the molecular level. Superman could also phase through it with super speed. And back on speed, how does Molecule Man do anything before Superman kills him?"
Your whole argument seems to be based on superman surprise attacking molecule man by flying at him at the speed of light. Your scenarios seem to have molecule man totally unaware that a superhuman being is intent on killing him if he KNEW he were in a fight why wouldn't he have up a force field. Given their dispositions, Superman a beacon of all that is good, and molecule man a former criminal. it would seem that if someone initiated the attack or suprise attacked it would be molecule man. If molecule man attacked superman, he can fold space and travel way faster than the speed of light, so speed is not an issue. If they both knew they were to fight each other or the fight was scheduled, Molecule Mans attacks/defenses are virtually endless. He could simply teleport himself to the other side of the galaxy locate superman via his cosmic awareness and turn superman into a steaming pile of dog crap from the other side of pluto. "

Not to turn against my own side Valkaad but I think the supposition is that both know they are about to fight and may even be standing facing each other. Neither one is able to use a power until the starting gun goes off. They stand there staring into each other's eyes. The starter pulls his trigger and in the time that it takes for the sound of the gun going off to end, Superman could have flown to Molecule Man and snapped his neck, all before Molecule Man could have had a thought to even raise his shields. With someone as fast as Superman, it all depends on the stipulations for the beginning of the fight.

#52 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"Not to turn against my own side Valkaad but I think the supposition is that both know they are about to fight and may even be standing facing each other. Neither one is able to use a power until the starting gun goes off. They stand there staring into each other's eyes. The starter pulls his trigger and in the time that it takes for the sound of the gun going off to end, Superman could have flown to Molecule Man and snapped his neck, all before Molecule Man could have had a thought to even raise his shields. With someone as fast as Superman, it all depends on the stipulations for the beginning of the fight."

That's what I'm saying. Put them in a city, tell them they're going to fight, yell "GO!", and before Molecule Man can do anything, Superman has already beat him.

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#53 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

At the speed of thought molecule man can teleport to another dimension or another part of the galaxy. Molecule Man can move FASTER THAN LIGHT SPEED. He can create space warps and enter hyperspace.

#54 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"At the speed of thought molecule man can teleport to another dimension or another part of the galaxy. Molecule Man can move FASTER THAN LIGHT SPEED. He can create space warps and enter hyperspace. "

Superman can reach him faster than he can think, he's just that fast. Get around that, and Molecule Man can win, but he's not fast enough.

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#55 Posted by Marrduke (82 posts) - - Show Bio

OK,..;given the criteria just presented (they start on a "field" and a gun goes off,.......well I'm assuming while they are staring at each other, they are still aware of thier surroundings and still have their cognative abilities (they aren't asleep, or dazed, or mindless) SO,..it is easy to assume that they both are preparing for the upcomming battle. Given this situation, Molecule is already aware and in control of his OWN molecular structure,..so,..when Super-Man Flies at him (which seems to be buckshots only sinerio of this thing playing out, and would be the most obvious thing to do), Molecule man would allow Sups to harmlessly through him, while doing so, he would transmutate the particles around him into a kryptonite suite (just to make it interesting), then turn the arena its self into a kryptonite structure, then turn every 1/100 air partiocle into the gaseous form of kryptonite, and stand over sups while he watches him die slowly, mabey slapping him a few times in the process for attempting to beat a man-god.

#56 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Valkaad says:
"At the speed of thought molecule man can teleport to another dimension or another part of the galaxy. Molecule Man can move FASTER THAN LIGHT SPEED. He can create space warps and enter hyperspace. "
Superman can reach him faster than he can think, he's just that fast. Get around that, and Molecule Man can win, but he's not fast enough."

Molecule man battled and stood toe to toe with the beyonder. I assure you the beyonder could move at light speed and do anything else superman could do and then some. Molecule man is not just a normal person with vast power. His whole body has changed as a result of the power. If it were as easy as getting the jump on him with speed the beyonder would have simply flown at him at light speed and killed him like you think superman would. Do you think superman could beat the Stranger or Galactus? He is on the same power level as those two. I assure you he is not an easy kill (all you have to do is be fast) and would beat superman.

#57 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Marrduke says:

"OK,..;given the criteria just presented (they start on a "field" and a gun goes off,.......well I'm assuming while they are staring at each other, they are still aware of thier surroundings and still have their cognative abilities (they aren't asleep, or dazed, or mindless) SO,..it is easy to assume that they both are preparing for the upcomming battle. Given this situation, Molecule is already aware and in control of his OWN molecular structure,..so,..when Super-Man Flies at him (which seems to be buckshots only sinerio of this thing playing out, and would be the most obvious thing to do), Molecule man would allow Sups to harmlessly through him, while doing so, he would transmutate the particles around him into a kryptonite suite (just to make it interesting), then turn the arena its self into a kryptonite structure, then turn every 1/100 air partiocle into the gaseous form of kryptonite, and stand over sups while he watches him die slowly, mabey slapping him a few times in the process for attempting to beat a man-god."

That's my only scenario because that's the only way Superman is going to win. You notice that I never said he could win if Molecule Man actually got a chance to use his powers offensively right? His best chance and the most obvious attack is to just hit him right from the get go. If he did it though, he would win, so it doesn't matter if that's all he's got. Saying Molecule Man is going to alter his molecules is giving him prep time. With it, he can win, without it, he won't.

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#58 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Marrduke says:
"OK,..;given the criteria just presented (they start on a "field" and a gun goes off,.......well I'm assuming while they are staring at each other, they are still aware of thier surroundings and still have their cognative abilities (they aren't asleep, or dazed, or mindless) SO,..it is easy to assume that they both are preparing for the upcomming battle. Given this situation, Molecule is already aware and in control of his OWN molecular structure,..so,..when Super-Man Flies at him (which seems to be buckshots only sinerio of this thing playing out, and would be the most obvious thing to do), Molecule man would allow Sups to harmlessly through him, while doing so, he would transmutate the particles around him into a kryptonite suite (just to make it interesting), then turn the arena its self into a kryptonite structure, then turn every 1/100 air partiocle into the gaseous form of kryptonite, and stand over sups while he watches him die slowly, mabey slapping him a few times in the process for attempting to beat a man-god."
That's my only scenario because that's the only way Superman is going to win. You notice that I never said he could win if Molecule Man actually got a chance to use his powers offensively right? His best chance and the most obvious attack is to just hit him right from the get go. If he did it though, he would win, so it doesn't matter if that's all he's got. Saying Molecule Man is going to alter his molecules is giving him prep time. With it, he can win, without it, he won't."

You think molecule man with all that power is walking around with a normal body structure. Susceptible to colds, cuts, scrapes. while he was fighting the beyonder he altered his structure to be pretty much invulnerable (it would have to be to take what he took against the beyonder). So you think he changed himself back to a normal human that if caught unawares could be killed by a gunshot wound. Everyone with cosmic power knows the molecule man and he knows that they know about him, so why would he be stupid enough to revert back to normal and set himself up to be easily killed by anyone with superspeed.

#59 Posted by Marrduke (82 posts) - - Show Bio

Like Valkadd said,..he wouldn't get to him,..This is like your DC vs. MArvel sinerio, were the flash takes out the entire Marvel Universe. Your logic is based on linear thinking. A does not equl B on assumption.

#60 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Buckshot says:
"Valkaad says:
"At the speed of thought molecule man can teleport to another dimension or another part of the galaxy. Molecule Man can move FASTER THAN LIGHT SPEED. He can create space warps and enter hyperspace. "
Superman can reach him faster than he can think, he's just that fast. Get around that, and Molecule Man can win, but he's not fast enough."
Molecule man battled and stood toe to toe with the beyonder. I assure you the beyonder could move at light speed and do anything else superman could do and then some. Molecule man is not just a normal person with vast power. His whole body has changed as a result of the power. If it were as easy as getting the jump on him with speed the beyonder would have simply flown at him at light speed and killed him like you think superman would. Do you think superman could beat the Stranger or Galactus? He is on the same power level as those two. I assure you he is not an easy kill (all you have to do is be fast) and would beat superman."

Beyonder would have done it if it were in a fight on this forum, but not in a comic. The rules are different there. This has been said before, that's why Flash doesn't beat all his enemies in he first panel of his comics. Did I say Superman could beat Stranger or Galactus? The difference is, those characters, in addition to their amazing offensive powers, have (automatic) defenses that protect them from Superman initial assault and reaction times to use their powers as fast as he can. Molecule Man does not have those options.

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#61 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Marrduke says:

"Like Valkadd said,..he wouldn't get to him,..This is like your DC vs. MArvel sinerio, were the flash takes out the entire Marvel Universe. Your logic is based on linear thinking. A does not equl B on assumption."

Why wouldn't Superman get to him? If you can tell me why Superman can't get to him, then it's over.

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#62 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Who says he doesn't have them? He obviously had them against the beyonder. Anyone with that level of power and an I.Q. above 50 would have automatic defense screens and protections set in place. Again, he knows that very powerful people are "aware" of him and I am sure he is not a sitting duck for a "quick" attack.

#63 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Who says he doesn't have them? He obviously had them against the beyonder. Anyone with that level of power and an I.Q. above 50 would have automatic defense screens and protections set in place. Again, he knows that very powerful people are "aware" of him and I am sure he is not a sitting duck for a "quick" attack."

Who says he does have them? People like Magneto, Dr. Doom and Dr. Strange have shields up almost all the time. You know that because it's been shown many times in comics. The same has not been shown for Molecule Man. Like I said, just because it makes sense that he'd have shields up all the time doesn't mean he does. And again, knowing something is happening means nothing if you're not fast enough to stop it. I really don't think he would know Superman was attacking though, because the whole thing would be taking place too fast.

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#64 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Who says he doesn't have them? He obviously had them against the beyonder. Anyone with that level of power and an I.Q. above 50 would have automatic defense screens and protections set in place. Again, he knows that very powerful people are "aware" of him and I am sure he is not a sitting duck for a "quick" attack."

I would usually say that this is impossible because that would mean that either he had the screens up before the fight started or he somehow thought faster than Superman can move, which is faster then the speed of light.

But how fast do we think? Assuming that his power emanates from his mind so that he doesn't have to take the time to send electrical impulses anywhere, just how fast is the speed of thought? Sadly I think it's slower then the speed of light.

#65 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Valkaad says:
"Who says he doesn't have them? He obviously had them against the beyonder. Anyone with that level of power and an I.Q. above 50 would have automatic defense screens and protections set in place. Again, he knows that very powerful people are "aware" of him and I am sure he is not a sitting duck for a "quick" attack."
Who says he *does* have them? People like Magneto, Dr. Doom and Dr. Strange have shields up almost all the time. You know that because it's been shown many times in comics. The same has not been shown for Molecule Man. Like I said, just because it makes sense that he'd have shields up all the time doesn't mean he does. And again, knowing something is happening means nothing if you're not fast enough to stop it. I really don't think he would know Superman was attacking though, because the whole thing would be taking place too fast."

If you want to play a game and say "well the comic hasn't shown it so it's not so" then here we go. in the fight with the beyonder he altered his body to be virtually indestructible, he withstood full energy blasts from one of the most powerful beings ever. The comics never showed him change his body structure back to that of a normal man so he is still altered to be able to resist that level of energy. So, superman flies at him at superspeed, molecule man is not injured at all, and then proceeds to turn superman into a bowl of jello.

man's

#66 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

We were talking about auto defense screens, screens that are in place always and that only activate if a certain force is applied against them. No thought is required they are there always.

#67 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry, I was busy in another thread.

I'm not playing any game. There are characters with autodefenses and it's shown explicitly in comics that they have them. It's not that they don't mention that they took their defense off once, they make a point and explain it multiple times in multiple comics that the character has that defense up all the time. Until it's shown somewhere that Molecule Man does have an automatic defense that's up all the time, he doesn't. I can accept that he can change his body to be indestructible because not only is it a logical use of his powers, but it's something he does or has done. Having an autoshield may be a logical use of his powers, but if it's not something he does or has regularly, then it's not usable here. Show me his permanent shields (would require him saying it and demonstrating it consistenly) and he survives the initial attack. If he survives the initial attack, he wins. If he can't, he doesn't.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 15:35:51

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#68 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Sorry, I was busy in another thread. I'm not playing any game. There are characters with autodefenses and it's shown explicitly in comics that they have them. It's not that they don't mention that they took their defense off once, they make a point and explain it multiple times in multiple comics that the character has that defense up all the time. Until it's shown somewhere that Molecule Man does have an automatic defense that's up all the time, he doesn't. I can accept that he *can* change his body to be indestructible because not *only* is it a logical use of his powers, but it's something he does or has done. Having an autoshield may be a logical use of his powers, but if it's not something he does or has regularly, then it's not usable here. Show me his permanent shields (would require him saying it and demonstrating it consistenly) and he survives the initial attack. If he survives the initial attack, he wins. If he can't, he doesn't.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 15:35:51"

Buckshot's right. Unless otherwise stipulated Superman would take him out before Molecule Man was even aware anything happened.

#69 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Well what if Molecule Man had his shields built in already?

#70 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Then Molecule Man would win. Superman's only chance is to take him out before he uses his powers.

#71 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, that's it. If they know they're going to fight, Molecule Man's obviously going to make shields.

#72 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

how do you put pictures on the thread

#73 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Sorry, I was busy in another thread. I'm not playing any game. There are characters with autodefenses and it's shown explicitly in comics that they have them. It's not that they don't mention that they took their defense off once, they make a point and explain it multiple times in multiple comics that the character has that defense up all the time. Until it's shown somewhere that Molecule Man does have an automatic defense that's up all the time, he doesn't. I can accept that he *can* change his body to be indestructible because not *only* is it a logical use of his powers, but it's something he does or has done. Having an autoshield may be a logical use of his powers, but if it's not something he does or has regularly, then it's not usable here. Show me his permanent shields (would require him saying it and demonstrating it consistenly) and he survives the initial attack. If he survives the initial attack, he wins. If he can't, he doesn't.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 15:35:51"

I guess you just ignored the fact that I said in his fight with beyonder his body was altered to survive the beyonders blasts and no comic ever shows him changing them back, so by your logic he is still "cosmically powered" and virtually indestructible.

#74 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"I guess you just ignored the fact that I said in his fight with beyonder his body was altered to survive the beyonders blasts and no comic ever shows him changing them back, so by your logic he is still "cosmically powered" and virtually indestructible."

Buckshot says:

"Sorry, I was busy in another thread.I'm not playing any game. There are characters with autodefenses and it's shown explicitly in comics that they have them. It's not that they don't mention that they took their defense off once, they make a point and explain it multiple times in multiple comics that the character has that defense up all the time. Until it's shown somewhere that Molecule Man does have an automatic defense that's up all the time, he doesn't. I can accept that he *can* change his body to be indestructible because not *only* is it a logical use of his powers, but it's something he does or has done. Having an autoshield may be a logical use of his powers, but if it's not something he does or has regularly, then it's not usable here. Show me his permanent shields (would require him saying it and demonstrating it consistenly) and he survives the initial attack. If he survives the initial attack, he wins. If he can't, he doesn't.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 15:35:51"
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#75 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Valkaad says:
" I guess you just ignored the fact that I said in his fight with beyonder his body was altered to survive the beyonders blasts and no comic ever shows him changing them back, so by your logic he is still "cosmically powered" and virtually indestructible. "
Buckshot says:
"Sorry, I was busy in another thread. I'm not playing any game. There are characters with autodefenses and it's shown explicitly in comics that they have them. It's not that they don't mention that they took their defense off once, they make a point and explain it multiple times in multiple comics that the character has that defense up all the time. Until it's shown somewhere that Molecule Man does have an automatic defense that's up all the time, he doesn't. I can accept that he *can* change his body to be indestructible because not *only* is it a logical use of his powers, but it's something he does or has done. Having an autoshield may be a logical use of his powers, but if it's not something he does or has regularly, then it's not usable here. Show me his permanent shields (would require him saying it and demonstrating it consistenly) and he survives the initial attack. If he survives the initial attack, he wins. If he can't, he doesn't.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 15:35:51"
"

Molecule man is such a small time character as far as number of appearances that they haven't developed his character as much as the other characters As far as I know his last appearance was the secret wars (last time I know of him in a comic). My point is not that he has force fields up, but that his whole molecular structure is changed. If he were a more interesting character and in comics more I cannot imagine that the writers would have anyone with that much power not enhancing themselves permanently. Any perons with half a brain have given himself a much more resilient body than the normal flesh and blood we have. I have personally never seen superman kill a anyone in a comic so maybe he can't (not physically but mentally) maybe he cannot bring himself to take a human life so he wouldn't attack molecule man at full force. Just because it hasn't been written doesn't mean that it cannot happen. Just like you said earlier, on this website we ASSUME that people are fighting to the maximum level of their powers. If we can hypothesize that superman would fly at light speed and KILL someone instead of trying to subdue them, then we can hypothesize that Molecule Man is not walking around with that much power contained in a "human" body.

#76 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Molecule man is such a small time character as far as number of appearances that they haven't developed his character as much as the other characters As far as I know his last appearance was the secret wars (last time I know of him in a comic). My point is not that he has force fields up, but that his whole molecular structure is changed. If he were a more interesting character and in comics more I cannot imagine that the writers would have anyone with that much power not enhancing themselves permanently. Any perons with half a brain have given himself a much more resilient body than the normal flesh and blood we have. I have personally never seen superman kill a anyone in a comic so maybe he can't (not physically but mentally) maybe he cannot bring himself to take a human life so he wouldn't attack molecule man at full force. Just because it hasn't been written doesn't mean that it cannot happen. Just like you said earlier, on this website we ASSUME that people are fighting to the maximum level of their powers. If we can hypothesize that superman would fly at light speed and KILL someone instead of trying to subdue them, then we can hypothesize that Molecule Man is not walking around with that much power contained in a "human" body. "

I don't care what the reason is, if you can't show me that having his body changed is and has been his default mode, then it doesn't matter. Like I said, it doesn't matter if it makes sense, if that's not part of the character, then him being like that isn't how he'll start this fight. And say Superman doesn't kill, he can still knock Molecule Man out with a flick of his finger or shut his brain down with laser vision.

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#77 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman did kill once that I know of. After Zod, Feora, and Quex-UI killed billions on an alternate Earth, Superman killed them with kryptonite. I know they were brought back, but thats the company, Superman killed them, he doesnt have a mental block he just chooses not to. But if he had to he would.

#78 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Touche

#79 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Gambler says:

"Superman did kill once that I know of. After Zod, Feora, and Quex-UI killed billions on an alternate Earth, Superman killed them with kryptonite. I know they were brought back, but thats the company, Superman killed them, he doesnt have a mental block he just chooses not to. But if he had to he would."

Thing is, he doesn't even have to.

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#80 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats true to.

#81 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Valkaad says:
"Molecule man is such a small time character as far as number of appearances that they haven't developed his character as much as the other characters As far as I know his last appearance was the secret wars (last time I know of him in a comic). My point is not that he has force fields up, but that his whole molecular structure is changed. If he were a more interesting character and in comics more I cannot imagine that the writers would have anyone with that much power not enhancing themselves permanently. Any perons with half a brain have given himself a much more resilient body than the normal flesh and blood we have. I have personally never seen superman kill a anyone in a comic so maybe he can't (not physically but mentally) maybe he cannot bring himself to take a human life so he wouldn't attack molecule man at full force. Just because it hasn't been written doesn't mean that it cannot happen. Just like you said earlier, on this website we ASSUME that people are fighting to the maximum level of their powers. If we can hypothesize that superman would fly at light speed and KILL someone instead of trying to subdue them, then we can hypothesize that Molecule Man is not walking around with that much power contained in a "human" body. "
I don't care what the reason is, if you can't show me that having his body changed is and has been his default mode, then it doesn't matter. Like I said, it doesn't matter if it makes sense, if that's not part of the character, then him being like that isn't how he'll start this fight. And say Superman doesn't kill, he can still knock Molecule Man out with a flick of his finger or shut his brain down with laser vision. "

Molecule mans default fighting mode is invulnerable if he were told he was be transported somewhere for a fight there would be no way to stop him from altering himself. In the scenario where he is transported to a city and told he is about to fight he would go ahead and alter himself (even if you presuppose he isn't that way permanently). If they both just arrived and someone said your're now fighting each other "go" and neither knew anything about the other then superman, as he does in every comic would approach his presumed victim and let the guy take a shot at him to see how powerful he is. (THis is the way superman fights in almost every comic). Superman=Pudding Pop.

#82 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Molecule mans default fighting mode is invulnerable if he were told he was be transported somewhere for a fight there would be no way to stop him from altering himself."

You said "if", meaning it's actually is not his default mode. He has to change himself to become like that.

Valkaad says:

"In the scenario where he is transported to a city and told he is about to fight he would go ahead and alter himself (even if you presuppose he isn't that way permanently)."

He's doing something before the fight starts. That's prep time. I already said that if he had time he could win, but this fight doesn't say "with prep."

Valkaad says:

"If they both just arrived and someone said your're now fighting each other "go" and neither knew anything about the other then superman, as he does in every comic would approach his presumed victim and let the guy take a shot at him to see how powerful he is. THis is the way superman fights in almost every comic). Superman=Pudding Pop."

That's plot. Put them in a city say "go" (as in "now you can start to fight/use your powers") and Superman uses his abilities to their fullest, he wins. The same is not true for Molecule Man unless he has prep. If he knows beforehand and uses his powers before the fight starts, then he can survive, but that's not the case.

Molecule Man winning depends on prep since he isn't fast enough to handle Superman's first attack.

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#83 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

That is true Buckshot, I can't argue with you.

#84 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Valkaad says:
"Molecule mans default fighting mode is invulnerable if he were told he was be transported somewhere for a fight there would be no way to stop him from altering himself."
You said "if", meaning it's actually is *not* his default mode. He has to change himself to become like that.I have said all along that his default mode is invulnerable look at my last 20 posts. it is you who are arguing that it is not. Now you are taking one instance where I said "IF" and taking it out of context from my whole argument. I contend that it is illogical to think that Molecule man is walking around as a flesh and blood human who, caught offguard could be killed by my little brother with a gun. The fact that you think he IS walking around "like the rest of us" just because a comic hasn't shown him to have force fields up all the time is bordering on ridiculous (do you believe that the almost omnipotent molecule man could or would allow himself to be killed by a gunshot wound to the head?). When he went toe to toe with the beyonder do you believe he just put force fieds up or do you believe his entire being was changed to withstand the battle? If you believe he changed his whole chemical and physical make-up which he would have had to do, then show me the comic where he changed it back to a normal flesh and blood vessel. Also in one issue where he is playing cards, he walks into another room of the house. He has changed that room into a pocket of space, they don't show him erect any force field or do anything to his body to prepare to walk into space, HE JUST DOES. I take that to mean his cosmically powered body is prepared at ANY time to enter space or take on superman.
#85 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

You've been saying it, but you haven't been proving it. You're just repeating points I've addressed several times already. I don't need to keep responding.

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#86 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Molecule Man can do anything"

I am glad we agree

#87 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Buckshot says:
"Valkaad says:
" Also in one issue where he is playing cards, he walks into another room of the house. He has changed that room into a pocket of space, they don't show him erect any force field or do anything to his body to prepare to walk into space, HE JUST DOES. I take that to mean his cosmically powered body is prepared at ANY time to enter space or take on superman.
"

Again they didn't show him "make preperation" or alter his body to enter space I guess you think that he was just holding his breath

#88 Posted by Marrduke (82 posts) - - Show Bio

ok buckhot,..if YOU had Molecule man's powers,...would YOU walk around defensless???????? or would you keep your "shield/field" up???

#89 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

i still say molecule man

#90 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Marrduke says:

"ok buckhot,..if YOU had Molecule man's powers,...would YOU walk around defensless???????? or would you keep your "shield/field" up??? "
Of course, but if I had his powers, I'd recreate the universe in my image also. Haven't seen him do that. I also wouldn't walk around in that dumbass costume. I'd hide myself from everyone until I made my move. I'd never limit my own powers (intentionally or not). Just because it's a good idea doesn't mean he does it.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 20:24:34
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#91 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Marrduke says:
"ok buckhot,..if YOU had Molecule man's powers,...would YOU walk around defensless???????? or would you keep your "shield/field" up??? "
Of course, but if I had his powers, I'd recreate the universe in my image also. Haven't seen him do that. I also wouldn't walk around in that dumbass costume. Just because it's a good idea doesn't mean he does it."

Lmao

#92 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight isn't worth this many pages. If there is prep Molecule Man can't lose but if there isn't prep Superman can't lose. That's all it boils down to. Nothing has ever been stated that Molecule Man walks around in a defensive state. If you were Molecule Man, wouldn't you change the construction of your body so you were like the Silver Surfer or Sentry and wouldn't need to worry about having shields or screens? But he hasnt.

#93 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

true i don't like his costume

#94 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"This fight isn't worth this many pages. If there is prep Molecule Man can't lose but if there isn't prep Superman can't lose. That's all it boils down to. Nothing has ever been stated that Molecule Man walks around in a defensive state. If you were Molecule Man, wouldn't you change the construction of your body so you were like the Silver Surfer or Sentry and wouldn't need to worry about having shields or screens? But he hasnt."

That's all there is too it.

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#95 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

but if he can feel the molecules he knows when superman comes at him and then think of a shild and there it is

#96 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

spiderman0409 says:

"but if he can feel the molecules he knows when superman comes at him and then think of a shild and there it is"

Not fast enough. His mind can't process the information in time. Either he has prep time or he loses.

#97 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

what if superman is far away

#98 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

what if superman is far away

#99 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

like 186,000 miles away? he can travel at least that far in one second.

#100 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Molecule Man would be able to make something that fast.