Mockingbird vs Catman (H2H)

@Vance Astro said:

@Morpheus_ said:

Catman is better than Hawkeye in unarmed combat, so I have no doubt he'd perform just as well. A full set of scans of her encounter with USAgent would be good given his track record against Captain America. Throwing him aside does not constitute a victory.

And if we are at liberty to use scans from every PIS feat each character has, I can assure Catman has three for each one of Mockingbird's own. You don't want me posting scans of him taking down Captain Nazi by his lonesome and passing it as credible.

Umm so I'm surmising that Catman wins?

@Vance Astro said:

@Morpheus_ said:

Catman is better than Hawkeye in unarmed combat, so I have no doubt he'd perform just as well. A full set of scans of her encounter with USAgent would be good given his track record against Captain America. Throwing him aside does not constitute a victory.

And if we are at liberty to use scans from every PIS feat each character has, I can assure Catman has three for each one of Mockingbird's own. You don't want me posting scans of him taking down Captain Nazi by his lonesome and passing it as credible.

Umm so I'm surmising that Catman wins?

@Vance Astro said:

@daak1212 said:

@Vance Astro said:

@Morpheus_ said:

Catman is better than Hawkeye in unarmed combat, so I have no doubt he'd perform just as well. A full set of scans of her encounter with USAgent would be good given his track record against Captain America. Throwing him aside does not constitute a victory.

And if we are at liberty to use scans from every PIS feat each character has, I can assure Catman has three for each one of Mockingbird's own. You don't want me posting scans of him taking down Captain Nazi by his lonesome and passing it as credible.

Umm so I'm surmising that Catman wins?

Yes. Mockingbird sucks.

lol

@Vance Astro: Give me some feats for Catman that isn't under Gail, and I will believe you.

@Vance Astro: Give me some feats for Catman that isn't under Gail, and I will believe you.

@Vance Astro: I absolutely can. If the writer proves she doesn't understand the level of skill the characters have and what they are able to do, then I will discredit them. Catman is no where near skilled enough to fight Bane or Bruce. He doesn't have the training or physical stats to do it. Gail has shown many times that she doesn't have a good grasp on street level characters, including the Secret Six fighting Cheetah....

@Strafe Prower said:

@Vance Astro: I absolutely can. If the writer proves she doesn't understand the level of skill the characters have and what they are able to do, then I will discredit them. Catman is no where near skilled enough to fight Bane or Bruce. He doesn't have the training or physical stats to do it. Gail has shown many times that she doesn't have a good grasp on street level characters, including the Secret Six fighting Cheetah....

Considering Simone has written Cheetah herself in Wonder Woman's book, including an encounter where Wonder Woman said that without her lasso, Cheetah would slice her to shreds, I'd say she has a pretty firm grasp of where Cheetah's capabilities lie. In the same issue where they fought Cheetah, Catman and Deadshot said they stood no chance of beating her simply because Cheetah could fight Wonder Woman. And Cheetah was holding back because she wanted the get-out-of-hell-free card.

@Vance Astro: I absolutely can. If the writer proves she doesn't understand the level of skill the characters have and what they are able to do, then I will discredit them. 

@Strafe Prower said:

@Vance Astro: Give me some feats for Catman that isn't under Gail, and I will believe you.

He actually had a decent showing or two against Batman well before Secret Six. I don't have scans, though.

@k4tzm4n: Do you have the issue numbers?

In Detective Comics #538, Batman beats Catman with four hits. Apart from that I'm not too familiar with their non-Secret Six encounters.

@CitizenBane: That would require research and I'm 95% asleep at the moment. I'll just be lazy and shine the @Morpheus_ signal. I'm pretty sure he compiled scans awhile ago.

@Bane, despite her holding back, she still should have ran through them without them being able to do anything. Constraining them should have been an easy task considering she knew her goal going into the fight. @Vance, ive never seen any scans that prove that level of skill or anywhere close. Just him getting stomped by Catwoman. Then again, if I can see what k4t is talking about and it is legit, I will concede the point. I trust k4t, ive just never heard of these instances.

When did Bobi get superhuman out of curiosity? They took a bland character and made her....super bland now.

@Strafe Prower said:

@Bane, despite her holding back, she still should have ran through them without them being able to do anything. Constraining them should have been an easy task considering she knew her goal going into the fight. @Vance, ive never seen any scans that prove that level of skill or anywhere close. Just him getting stomped by Catwoman. Then again, if I can see what k4t is talking about and it is legit, I will concede the point. I trust k4t, ive just never heard of these instances.

You shouldn't. The only honest thing I'll ever say on the Vine is the following sentence: I'm making everything up.

But really, the old Catman vs Batman fights are vague to me. I've only seen them once, but I recall being impressed because he held his own decently. It was clear he wasn't better than Batman, but it's nice to see he has a decent showing or two pre-Gail.

@k4tzm4n: What about the fight against the meta in Cat's in the Cradle?

@daak1212 said:

@k4tzm4n: What about the fight against the meta in Cat's in the Cradle?

Are you talking about the guy he ambushed in the pickup truck?

Catman held his own against Bronze Tiger....fairly well. 
 
He wins with ease, here.

When did Bobi get superhuman out of curiosity? They took a bland character and made her....super bland now.

@k4tzm4n said:

@daak1212 said:

@k4tzm4n: What about the fight against the meta in Cat's in the Cradle?

Are you talking about the guy he ambushed in the pickup truck?

No the final brawl with the electric guy@Nefarious said:

Catman held his own against Bronze Tiger....fairly well. He wins with ease, here.

They really werent fighting their best there

@k4tzm4n said:

@daak1212 said:

@k4tzm4n: What about the fight against the meta in Cat's in the Cradle?

Are you talking about the guy he ambushed in the pickup truck?

No the final brawl with the electric guy@Nefarious said:

Catman held his own against Bronze Tiger....fairly well. He wins with ease, here.

They really werent fighting their best there

i guess i am the only one that actually likes mockingbird. lol

@charlieboy: Nah. He kept Batman busy for a while, but Bruce was holding back because, in his own words, he wanted to save Blake's "foolish, wasted life". Catman claimed that he allowed Bruce to win, but he can claim whatever he wants. I'd say Catman's best feat is stalemating Bronze Tiger (he actually lost, but Turner collapsed from exhaustion right after defeating Blake so I usually consider it a stalemate).

I'll just post the Bronze Tiger fight here, if it helps the debate:

Ugh, that is such bad writing....

@charlieboy said:

@CitizenBane: wow. he's pretty good. although i would say when he's fighting women he comes of as a tad chauvinistic. might be his downfall here.

Lol I don't think that'll have any bearings here.

@Strafe Prower said:

Ugh, that is such bad writing....

Not really sure how, before Simone and the Secret SIx, Catman was an obeese suicidal depressed vigilante. He went to Africa to train and came back the way he was in SS. I think it's consistent

Really, if you want to disregard everything Simone has ever written, then Blake has almost no feats and Mockingbird wins by default.

Does Mockingbird get a bottle then?

@charlieboy said:

@daak1212: i don't see why not. he usually tries harder to bed them than fight them. just saying. might give mock an edge.

Who can refuse the advances of the Catman?

He can train with lions till he dies, but that wont make him a Batman or Bronze Tiger level martial artist. He doesnt have the knowlege or training to do what is shown above.

@Strafe Prower said:

He can train with lions till he dies, but that wont make him a Batman or Bronze Tiger level martial artist. He doesnt have the knowlege or training to do what is shown above.

Tragically it still holds up.

Tragically, what CitzenBane says is true. Logically, he shouldnt be able to beat her based on credible feats.

So uh, do I now assume that Catman wins?

Mockingbird due to her physical