Mister X vs Liu Kang

RULES:

NO Prep

Fight to KO, death, Incap

No weapons

Liu cannot use High/Low flame, dragon flame or other fire based attacks

All MK feats an be used

Morals on

Who Wins?

X due to mind reading.

I know who Professor X is, but not Mister X.

@wdc: He beat Wolverine in hand to hand. He's like Victor Zsasz crossed with Johnny Bravo, except he actually mastered Sumo.

Thats awesome.

@wdc: he's a real sicko. He loves death since he first put his dog in the oven. First appeared in Tieri's run on Wolverine.

Why are so many Wolverine villeins like that? Deadpool and now this.

@wdc: He's a telepath who didn't have a mentor such as the kindly Professor Xavier to help him cope.

@theamazingimmortalman: You said no "fire based attacks", are you just talking about projectiles? And are we talking about justMK9 Liu Kang, or is this Liu's canon from throughout all the MK series?

Regardless of which one this is, Liu beat Shang Tsung who uses mind/soul reading to beat his opponents because through his training (with the Shaolin, Bo' Rai Cho, and Raiden), so Liu has learned how to beat that.

Also, I can't say I know too much about Mister X, but I have my doubts that he can match Liu's strength or his speed (depending on what the OP means about fire based attacks).

@onilordasmodeus

I'm pretty sure the OP is trying to make this a strictly h2h match. "No fire-based attacks" is pretty self explanatory.

I'll back X in this one. Superior skill level and combat speed.

You know how I know your wanking ?

@shonen3: X has embarrassed Taskmaster with his speed for what it's worth.

..because I wrote one fragment to suffice as an explanation? Which is still more than you have so far.

Even giving Kang the benefit of the doubt with skill, X is probably faster and his telepathy is basically a Spider-Sense. I don't see how a nerfed Liu Kang wins here, honestly.

It isn't self explanatory. The fire that Liu Kang produces is produced using his chi, and many of the attacks that Liu uses he enhances using his chi which are punctuated with a fire element that surrounds him, or a certain part of his body. Liu Kang's enhance bicycle kick is a good example as his feet are seemingly on fire, but that said fire doesn't seemingly burn anything.

...and that is still hand-to-hand (foot-to-face) isn't it?

Even Liu's Dragon transformation isn't him using fire directly, or even "based on fire" at all as the fire is a by-product of his transformation.

Gallery

That is why I wanted clarification. Is it just fire attacks like fire balls and the like, or any chi enhanced attack period that Liu uses.

Also, I'd like to see some skill feats for Mister X that would show that he on a "Superior skill level" to Liu Kang, and has a higher combat speed.

IMO it should be X sans telepathy versus Kang sans fire powers, but that's my opinion and I am not the thread creator.

I wouldn't say that Kang is more skilled. Not really up on my history with MK characters, but I do know that X is a master of all martial arts styles. He's beaten a lot of highly skilled combatants as if they were nothing (Wolverine comes to mind, who is a master of all martial arts styles. Taskmaster as well.) The only way Kang would beat him H2H is if X couldn't read his movements, but even then, I doubt Kang could beat X.

@cf12793: I said "giving Kang the benefit of the doubt."

Also, X had his telepathy when he killed his masters. What's to say he didn't "cheat?"

I'd like to see some scans backing the claim up that he used his powers when he beat them. I doubt someone would spend all that time travelling the World and mastering all the World's greatest martial arts styles just to beat them by cheating.

@cf12793: I'm not claiming it. I'm speculating.

He wanted to "earn" the "Best There Is" title from Wolverine and he used telepathy there. Hardly fair.

If speculation is your only resource, then there's no point in discussing this.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@juiceboks said:

@onilordasmodeus

I'm pretty sure the OP is trying to make this a strictly h2h match. "No fire-based attacks" is pretty self explanatory.

I'll back X in this one. Superior skill level and combat speed.

It isn't self explanatory. The fire that Liu Kang produces is produced using his chi, and many of the attacks that Liu uses he enhances using his chi which are punctuated with a fire element that surrounds him, or a certain part of his body. Liu Kang's enhance bicycle kick is a good example as his feet are seemingly on fire, but that said fire doesn't seemingly burn anything.

...and that is still hand-to-hand (foot-to-face) isn't it?

Even Liu's Dragon transformation isn't him using fire directly, or even "based on fire" at all as the fire is a by-product of his transformation.

Gallery

That is why I wanted clarification. Is it just fire attacks like fire balls and the like, or any chi enhanced attack period that Liu uses.

Also, I'd like to see some skill feats for Mister X that would show that he on a "Superior skill level" to Liu Kang, and has a higher combat speed.

Then Liu Kang can't use his chi to create a fire effect. He's performed several of his moves without pyrotechnics in the past. If his fire enhanced punches don't have a burning effect, then use the instances where they simply aren't there. MK9 is the only game where his bicycle kick has flames anyway..

Mr. X has mastered all forms of Earthly martial arts(including some other worldy ones) and bested the masters that taught them to him.

He's fast enough to outspeed people like Taskmaster and effortlessly block bullets from repsectable marksmen like Black Widow

sorry I'll edit OP to specify it is all MK feats. and it's all fire based attacks.

Then if Liu can't use ANY chi based or enhanced attacks, I'd agree with @tifalockhart that this should be "X sans TP vs Liu sans chi attacks"...any other way would seem to favor X.

That being said though, if that were the case (and really after thinking about it, this is the case with the OP as it is) this becomes / is an incredibly hard debate to have as I believe the only reason X has been able to get as good as he is, and do many of the things that he has, is directly linked to his latent ability, just as the fact that Liu has been able to do everything he's done is linked to his chi.

Regardless, I'd still have to disagree that X is more skilled off top than Liu just due to the fact that though X trained with and killed the some of worlds best martial arts practitioners, and says he learned EVERY terrestrial martial art, Liu trained with a legendary martial arts master who was the originator of many styles of the styles known through out earth, as well as many that are not know on earth. Bo' Rai Cho's martial arts skill is a acknowledged by eternal gods as being top notch, as are Liu Kang's, and while a case can be made that X has the skill comparable to a man who's lived a century or so, Liu has the skill of a man who has live millennia; and his accomplishments show that more than anything. Though I'd say defeating Shao Kahn is Liu's greatest achievement, I think him defeating Goro and Shang Tsung is more than a big enough feat against X.

- Goro is 2000 yrs old and was undefeated against Earth's greatest masters for 500 years straight; of those who were defeated by him are Miyamoto Musashi (the greatest samurai of 15/1600's Japan), and the Great Kung Lao, greatest martial artist of at least two generations. While X has/had trained with/defeated the "best" of his generation, Goro defeated the best of 9 different generations, and by extension, Liu is/was the best of them all.

- Shang Tsung's combat experience encompasses thousands of years, and in that time he has defeated and consumed the knowledge of many great warrior. Of the warriors he has consumed are Miyamoto Musashi, the Great Kung Lao, many of the warrior king descendants of Kenshi (those who where trapped in his ancestral sword trained him), as well as countless other shaolin warriors, and other martial artist said to be the "best" in the world. When Liu Kang defeated Shang Tsung, he solidified himself as having achieved a level of physical and spiritual PERFECTION unseen by any other fighter prior to that point.

Liu Kang was heralded as "the Orders of Light's Greatest Champion", and the "Master of Mortal Kombat" at that point in his story, and from there he went up and onto besting a God in Mortal Kombat. Liu's skill, both in the physical and spiritual, coupled with his belief in himself, allowed him to become one of the greatest fighters ever.

@onilordasmodeus: Why do you keep posting scans from the Mortal Kombat comic books when both me and Vaeternus have stated that they are non-canon. And, who has Liu Kang defeated that is as skilled as Taskmaster and Wolverine? In addition to that what has Liu Kang done to be considered peak human in the Marvel Universe?

IIRC, CV Rules and even moderators have stated that using the Mortal Kombat comic books are usable as feats since MK doesn't really have many comics.

No, they didn't because in a recent thread Saren said that the feats had to be canon in order for them to be applicable unless stated that we are using a non-canon incarnation.

Really? Mind posting a link? We don't have much to go on if we can't use the non-canon comic books. What am I going to use to defend Scorpion in battle threads!? The end is nigh!

Cutscenes (almost 2 hours worth), biographies, information from the Krypt, canon endings, and etc. And, this isn't a fight Liu Kang could win.

His comments got deleted, but I will still link the thread http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/baraka-vs-wolverine-bone-claw-683547/?page=1

I agree, but it's a lot harder to use video feats than straight-up scans. Thanks for the link!

I would argue that cutscenes are much better because they can give you a much better sense of speed and time.

Mister X

1) Stop being an idiot. You, I, @Vaeternus, the MODS, and EVERYONE ELSE ONE THIS FORUM know that the Malibu produced MK comics are non-canon, AND NOBODY IS SAYING OTHERWISE IN THIS THREAD. You know exactly why I use them, and why I will continue to use them...BECAUSE THE MODS SAID I COULD, just as they said the non-canon Udon comics can be used for Street Fighter. If you have that big of a problem...take it up with the mods.

I would appreciate it if you didn't bring this up with me at all. Like I already said, if you have concerns, take them up with those in charge.

2) Stop with the false equivalents.

3) What argument are you making for Mister X in this thread? So far you haven't mention him.

bump

Kang still beats realm conquerors, high gods, revenants, cyborgs (who have missiles), demons, wraiths, and everything in between the freak spectrum with his bare fists.

Not sure who this joker is but how does he even compare?

I just wanted to add this, and please, anyone, fact check me. @vaeternus@saren

Here are my links...

• http://www.gamesurge.com/playstation/strategy/psx_man2/Mortal_kombat.shtml
• http://www.world-of-nintendo.com/manuals/super_nes/mortal_kombat_2.shtml
• http://www.world-of-nintendo.com/manuals/super_nes/ultimate_mortal_kombat_3.shtml

All the quotes that follow this refer specifically to all the fighters throughout MK1, 2, and the trilogy series (so essentially everyone in MK9 as well), as they are from the MK user manuals of those games. I have however made minor alterations to them, noted in parens or italics, as I feel they read better that way, as well as some commentary noted the same way. Why it has never occurred to me to quote these before is beyond me as the manuals for the MK games were written as an extension of the lore of the series, in many respects, to compliment the games and included comics .

Anyway...

• "The Shaolin Tournament for Martial Arts is more than a simple exhibition. Each of its combatants has been invited for [their] extraordinary skills and in accepting has wagered [their] very lives upon them."
• "Each contestant invited to the Tournament has spent years in practice and meditation to perfect his martial arts skills."
• "While being a master of Kombat may be enough to win any Earth contest, winning in the hostile Outworld requires more of a warrior. In preparation for this tournament, every warrior has perfected several special moves. These moves often draw upon spiritual supernatural energies, extreme physical conditioning, or mutant abilities for their effectiveness, and can be especially potent, often devastating an opponent."
• "All of the Mortal Kombat warriors possess expert fighting skills - in that respect, they are equal to thousands of other warriors around the universe (out of billions no less). What raises them above their peers are the special moves which they have created and perfected."
• "In order to become a superior warrior, skilled enough to win the title of Grand Champion, you must learn these [special] moves (or I'd imagine most comparable to them). These moves, whether Special Kicks or Elemental Bolts, make the Mortal Kombat Warriors the fiercest and most ferocious [martial artists] to be found."

To sum all this up...

The Overall Martial Arts Skill of Fighters Mortal Kombat -

All the fighters in Mortal Kombat are "expert" level, master, practitioners of their martial art, and have gone beyond the conventional interpretations of their crafts to become "extraordinary" among normal martial artists. Through meditation and/or practice of their martial skills, they have crafted and perfected their own unique "special moves" that have pushed their skills beyond that of their peers to a higher level of "perfection." To even be invited to the MK tournament means that you have extraordinary skill, but to become the Grand Champion means that your skill ranks above the best, of the best, of the best.

Fatalities and Other Special Moves Specifically -

Only through the creation, perfection, and subsequent use of these "special moves", can the kombatants hope to survive in the MK tournament. Whether through drawing upon various natural "spiritual supernatural energies", due to "extreme physical conditioning", or because of a fighter's outright "mutant abilities", with these moves and powers the warriors of the Mortal Kombat universe transcend normal human limitations and are on another level. The moves that specifically incorporate these more-than-human attributes are "especially potent", which means they posses great physical strength and power, and are "often devastating" to an opponent, which means they can cause severe and widespread damage to a body. All this tells us that the special moves that an MK character uses are integral to them, and are thus canon to them and the series, as are their fatalities.

Not a lot of respect or love for Liu.

More like not a lot of respect for MK characters in general...but this is nothing new.

What is mister X's best feat? Not for nothing but LK has beaten better fighters then Logan. Just saying. Has this X fellow beaten anyone on Kahn's level? If not LK. I'd think if LK is limited, why give this X character telepathy? It's not like LK is Ermac or Raiden and has resisted or is immune to mind control.

@onilordasmodeus I have no issues with your links man ;) afterall if not me it's usually you posting this stuff anyway lol. ;)

@ the people who don't follow MK or may not know what's canon/not canon:

Just so people are aware.

Games=the true canon, the fighters

Not Canon(MK vs. DCU, MKC, MK:DOTR, MK movies and the comics)

The comics, shows etc are BASED off the game but NOT the canon story as the game is.

1) Flagged, If they are non-canon why do you continuously post scans from them in almost every MK-related thread? The mods didn't say that you could use them, in a very recent thread @saren said that only canon feats are allowed unless it is stated that we are using a non-canon incarnation.

2) How exactly is this a false equivocation when you are making the claim that Liu Kang can compete with Mister X, and now it is time to substantiate that claim. Neither Shao Khan, Goro, or Shang Tsung are remotely comparable to characters such as Black Widow, Taskmaster, and Wolverine ( I would even argue that Wolverine could beat everyone you just listed singlehandedly with ease). Most Mortal Kombat characters struggle to beat and defend themselves in hand-to-hand combat against just a handful full of fodder characters such Smoke, Sub-Zero, Jax, Johnny Cage, and even Raiden when confronted, while in comparison Wolverine is able to fight off thousands of Hand Ninjas and Hydra Agents all by his alone-some self.

3) Mister X has a degree of telepathy, he is also faster and the much more superior combatant. He takes this fight with ease. And, you haven't posted a shred of evidence to support any of your claims here.

Liu

Mister X has been able to defeat characters like Black Widow, Taskmaster, and Wolverine. Liu Kang hasn't beaten anyone remotely close to the fighters I have listed, and Shao Khan only hand-to-hand combat feat to date is his off-panel fight with ambiguous featless King Jerrod.

Youre right, lk has beaten far better. Those fighters aren't that impressive, Black Widow? lol anyone in MK or DC can take her, she's a low tier fighter at best. Wolverine is ferocious and often relies on his healing but hes better than Black Widow at least And Taskmaster jobbers half the time. Example, he should beat someone like mr. X given gis abilities....

Lastly, none of those people are on Kahn's level so going LK here. Btw, Raiden, Cage etc(some of them) aren't canon fodder....they're key characters to the series, Raiden especially being one of them. Always has, always will be. Also kahn has fought tons of fighters and won, king jerrod was the king/ruler of edenia and hes centuries old. People like black widow are irrelevent here.

LK should win here.

1) Who has Liu Kang beaten that is better because you keep on bringing up Shao Khan and he only has one mediocre feat attached to his name. Being on Shao Khan's level isn't impressive by Marvel standards, so let's stop alluding to him or post some feats for him.

2) Feat were posted for Black Widow in this thread http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/comic-vine-battle-of-the-week-voting-black-widow-v-1532081/?page=3 and nothing you have said in this thread remotely counters them. If, Black Widow is a low tier fighters that makes Liu Kang's fighting skills non-existent since he hasn't done anything to replicate anything that has been shown for Black Widow feat-wise.

3) Wolverine and Taskmaster have better feats that exceed anyone in the Mortal Kombat Universe. I would love to see Liu Kang holding his own against two fighters at the same time who are comparable to Bucky and Steve in skills and physical stats or fight over 1000 Hand Ninjas and Hydra Agents. You most likely can't since characters like Raiden, Sub-Zero, Smoke, Jax, and Johnny Cage have trouble defeating a handful of no-named fodders when confronted.

4) Shao Khan has only fought King Jerrod, and please name these other fighters that he supposedly beat? You claim that Black Widow is irrelevant because you know you can't post anything to show that Liu Kang is a better fighter, so let's please stop with the BS'ing here.

@vaeternus: @nick_hero22: @onilordasmodeus: Thanks for debating hard for your choices on this thread :)

but onilord you should refrain from calling other users idiots. Keep it up.

nick, Umm let's see here, everyone he faced in the MK tournament? Most impressively Ermac, Shang and Shao Kahn? Ok, you want feats? Proof, there...for the millionth time.

Mister X has never beaten someone on either of those character's scales...

And you keep lowballing the feat but doesn't matter, til Mister X punches a hole through a godlike being's chest(almost killing him) LK clearly is stronger and a better fighter.

Actually it's impressive, Marvel standards? What's that? PIS standards? Or your own standards? BTW, Black Widow isn't all that, she's Catwoman calibur and LK would thrash her in seconds if he wanted. He schooled Kitana who has literally centuries of experience, yet he was toying with her....

Actually, no they don't. Wolverine has lost to people less powerful then him, and TM jobbers way too much. Raiden, Kahn, Ermac, Sub, Scorp etc have better feats given who they've defeated and LK as well. But again you lowballing MK characters is nothing new. I won't get upset like @onilordasmodeus because I already know I'm right and who's not aware of MKU feats, characters etc. And the fact that you even brought up Black Widow, a low tier fighter who LK would own badly is hilarious.

Wrong, Kahn has fought many over the years thus why they fear him including Raiden. An immortal Thunder God granted he jobbers half the time but still, not every day someone is a threat to Raiden and Earthrealm. The guy's conquered several realms that you obviously don't know about. He didn't just fight and defeat Jerrod.

LK wins here.

Thanks for the kind words, but no...I can't, and won't, pretend like I respect Nick and his idiotic rantings. He knows what he's doing, and I'm not going to validate his actions by pretending to be polite while he trolls yet another thread with his baseless assertions and empty arguments.

@onilordasmodeus: I hear ya man.

@theamazingimmortalman I can understand your concern as a thread maker, (believe me I've been there lol) just want to inform you that with MK topics on here, oni and I follow MK a lot(as well as a few other users who pretty much choose not to post to waste their time) and the same users tend to post just to trash or lowball the MK characters for the sake of doing so, so I think oni is just getting annoyed. I've felt that frustration in the past, I mean I can understand flaming is bad but so is instigating imo.

But thanks for checking out my argument ;)

@saren

1) What's so impressive about beating Ermac, Shang Tsung, and Shao Khan because if I'm not mistaken Ermac lost to a Police Officer, Shang Tsung is virtually featless and has struggled to defeat characters like Smoke who needed Raiden to save him from 4 or 5 fodder cyborgs in the Living Forest, and Shao Khan whose only feat is beating King Jerrod who is ambiguous. Again, what is so impressive about Liu Kang beating a character whose only feat is beating a featless ambiguous character?

2) What evidence do you have that would support the claim that Black Widow, Taskmaster, and Wolverine aren't on Shao Khan's, Ermac's, and Shang Tsung's level other than your opinion?

3) No one is lowballing this characters, but what I am doing is adding context and telling the whole truth, not cherry picked information used to blow these characters way out of proportion. What evidence do you have that supports the claim that Shao Khan has superhuman durability ( because if Shao Khan is a god like I claimed in previous threads that would mean he has to take a mortal form during the tournament) and to add some context to that statement Liu Kang had to engulf his entire hand into a fireball in order to punch a hole in Shao Khan's chest.

4) Again, you haven't countered those feats for Black Widow and calling her a low tier fighter is a deflection tactic since you haven't demonstrated that Liu Kang has feats that exceed those of her's. Kitana being over thousands years ago is irrelevant because Sonya Blade whose only training comes from her Special Forces background not only beat Kitana, but both her and Jade at the same time despite not having an extensive martial arts history nor longevity.

5) Alluding to loses for Wolverine and calling Taskmaster a jobber doesn't address the feats they have that exceed the characters you listed i.e. Taskmaster fighting both of the Captain America's at the same time and holding his own, Taskmaster beating the Cat with ease, Taskmaster beating both Black Widow and Headsman, and etc. Again, you aren't able to address the evidence and you choose instead to use empty rhetoric "Actually, no they don't. Wolverine has lost to people less powerful then him, and TM jobbers way too much." and "And the fact that you even brought up Black Widow, a low tier fighter who LK would own badly is hilarious." shows that you had no argument to begin with since these statements are the foundation for your claims.

6) Please name these fighters that Shao Khan has beaten outside of King Jerrod? Shao Khan never directly participated in any of those conquests to my knowledge.

i Feels you bro, The reason i did not remove tp for X is because I believe LK can still put up a close fight if not win even without the flames.