• 150 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#1 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Would two of the top 5 DC martial artists be able to defeat Mister X?

#2 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio

I think so.

#3 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd probably go with Mister X here. 

#4 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" I'd probably go with Mister X here.  "
Why?
#5 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gremlin From Kremlin: Because he can read all of their moves by mapping their brainwaves via low-level telepathy. Bronze Tiger and Richard Dragon don't have ways around that. 
#6 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock: Why couldn't he read Luke Cage's and Iron Fist's moves and got powned in the face?
#7 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gremlin From Kremlin said:
" @Static Shock: Why couldn't he read Luke Cage's and Iron Fist's moves and got powned in the face? "
In the first fight, he was able to read Iron Fist until he opened his mouth about his telepathic move reading. Then, Iron Fist used Drunken Master style because it left no forewarning of his moves. 

Getting tagged by Luke Cage later in the book was an inconsistent showing. Mister X fought and read multiple fighters at once without any issues.


#8 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Gremlin From Kremlin said:
" @Static Shock: Why couldn't he read Luke Cage's and Iron Fist's moves and got powned in the face? "
In the first fight, he was able to read Iron Fist until he opened his mouth about his telepathic move reading. Then, Iron Fist used Drunken Master style because it left no forewarning of his moves. 

Getting tagged by Luke Cage later in the book was an inconsistent showing. Mister X fought and read multiple fighters at once without any issues.


"
Okay, so X IS a telepath? I've seen you saying that he isn't in multiple threads... His first fight with Iron Fist only tells that he can't match Danny in terms of skill and he very often relies on telepathy, which ends badly for him.
And I'm talking about this:

X got owned in the face after that. It's from Thunderbolts #137.
I'm pretty sure Ben and Richard know a Drunken style of fighting as well.
Bronze Tiger alone held his own against Deathstroke, while X can't beat Deadpool:



#9 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

Okay, so X IS a telepath? I've seen you saying that he isn't in multiple threads... His first fight with Iron Fist only tells that he can't match Danny in terms of skill and he very often relies on telepathy, which ends badly for him.
And I'm talking about this:

X got owned in the face after that. It's from Thunderbolts #137."

I'm aware of what you're talking about. It doesn't change what I've said. Mister X has been able to read multiple people before. The fact that he wasn't able to read Luke while fighting Iron Fist is an inconsistent showing. Iron Fist only beat him so easily the first time because Mister X said something about his ability to read, thus, giving him the opportunity to attack him a certain way. In most fights, his opponent doesn't even know about his telepathy, nor does Mister X say anything about it. Even when he says something about it, his opponent is unable to capitalize on it. Iron Fist just happens to be lucky because his power offers him a massive amount of styles that no other fighter knows.
Whether or not I've said that he's a telepath in multiple threads doesn't refute what I'm saying, either. Some writers cite his ability to read moves as mapping neural impulses. But, in most appearances, it's telepathy.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"I'm pretty sure Ben and Richard know a Drunken style of fighting as well."

Evidence? Just because they are the best fighters in DC doesn't mean that they know what Iron Fist knows. 

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

" Bronze Tiger alone held his own against Deathstroke, while X can't beat Deadpool:



I hate to say it, but Deathstroke is a better fighter than Deadpool is. There's no comparison, and Deadpool was defeated by the Cat with relative ease. Bronze Tiger's ability to fight Deathstroke stems from the fact that Deathstroke had been on the run for days and was fatigued, possibly dulling his physical enhancements. Even then, Deathstroke wasn't trying to fight Bronze Tiger to the best of his ability and he was trying to get away. Being able to fight a fatigued super-soldier means nothing to a guy that can read your mind and predict all of your moves. That instance doesn't even address this fight as much as you think.

Also, you should pay attention to your scans. Deadpool tries to act unpredictable and silly, and Mister X states that he's still able to read his mind (telepathy). He also states that Deadpool's mental state means nothing to him and that he has trained himself to block mental distractions such as that. You're saying X can't beat Deadpool as if Deadpool actually defeated him there. The fight was interrupted, and there wasn't a clear winner. This doesn't even support your argument, unless there's more to that fight than you've let on.
#10 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
Thumbs up, Static.



Moderator
#11 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_: Thanks.
#12 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock:  Pretty sure the showings from Deadpool Team-Up are not supposed to be canon, either (the Mr X vs Deadpool fight originates from such an issue), but that's hear say on my part from Deadpool fans that I've asked (K4tz, and mavfan, for instance).
Moderator
#13 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_: I didn't even know about that fight until just now. 
#14 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock: I found out about it a while back, and when I asked K4tz why he hadn't brought it up until that point (since he knows I'm a Mr X fan) he replied the book isn't canon. Doesn't make much of a difference either way.
Moderator
#15 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio

 I'm aware of what you're talking about. It doesn't change what I've said. Mister X has been able to read multiple people before. The fact that he wasn't able to read Luke while fighting Iron Fist is an inconsistent showing. Iron Fist only beat him so easily the first time because Mister X said something about his ability to read, thus, giving him the opportunity to attack him a certain way. In most fights, his opponent doesn't even know about his telepathy, nor does Mister X say anything about it. Even when he says something about it, his opponent is unable to capitalize on it. Iron Fist just happens to be lucky because his power offers him a massive amount of styles that no other fighter knows.
Whether or not I've said that he's a telepath in multiple threads doesn't refute what I'm saying, either. Some writers cite his ability to read moves as mapping neural impulses. But, in most appearances, it's telepathy.

All right, I guess the case with Luke Cage and Iron Fist is an inconsistent showing. But what about his inability to dodge Songbird's sonic blast in time? He couldn't beat Songbird and Black Widow at the same time, despite the fact that he had the first strike. As well as predicting Ghost frying his brain and when fighting Agents of Atlas, he looked like a boy trying to show off and got in a choke hold by a robot..
Who were the people that Mr. X successfully read and beaten? Mister X was beaten by Wolverine in his feral state and his telepathy could do nothing about it. The fact that he is able to predict moves doesn't mean that he can block them all.
But mapping onto neural impulses and telepathy are two completely different things. Richard Dragon has beaten Lady Shiva on his own and she too is able to read and predict body movements.

 Evidence? Just because they are the best fighters in DC doesn't mean that they know what Iron Fist knows.

 
Unfortunately, I can't find any direct proof to back up that statement, but I have this:


 

As it says "No fighting art is unknown to them" - that means that he knows drunken style. And Richard Dragon's primary martial art is Kung-Fu, which includes the Drunken Style.


Again - "Master of all the fighting arts".

 I hate to say it, but Deathstroke is a better fighter than Deadpool is. There's no comparison, and Deadpool was defeated by the Cat with relative ease. Bronze Tiger's ability to fight Deathstroke stems from the fact that Deathstroke had been on the run for days and was fatigued, possibly dulling his physical enhancements. Even then, Deathstroke wasn't trying to fight Bronze Tiger to the best of his ability and he was trying to get away. Being able to fight a fatigued super-soldier means nothing to a guy that can read your mind and predict all of your moves. That instance doesn't even address this fight as much as you think.

Also, you should pay attention to your scans. Deadpool tries to act unpredictable and silly, and Mister X states that he's still able to read his mind (telepathy). He also states that Deadpool's mental state means nothing to him and that he has trained himself to block mental distractions such as that. You're saying X can't beat Deadpool as if Deadpool actually defeated him there. The fight was interrupted, and there wasn't a clear winner. This doesn't even support your argument, unless there's more to that fight than you've let on.



A far better fighter. And why do you hate to say it? The Cat is Shang-Chi's rival in terms of skill, isn't he? Deathstroke had been on the run? What issue are you referring to? They fought each other and Bronze Tiger had the upper hand, before Deadshot came and broke the fight. And I dare to notice that, during the fight, Deathstroke managed to slice through Bronze Tiger's shoulder with his knife. And Bronze Tiger has no superhuman endurance or a healing factor, so that can compensate for Slade being depowered. Sure, Deathstroke was trying to get away, but he was still trying to put down Bronze Tiger, because he himself stated "You don't want answers. And I haven't got the patience to give away", which clearly implies that Deathstroke was trying to get rid of him. The fatigued supersoldier utlizes 90% if his brain capacity and his brain processes hundreds of possible ways a battle can go. He predicted the way Flash would run and managed to tag him.

I'm not saying that Deadpool defeated Mister X, all I was saying is that he can't beat Deadpool, despite being able to read and predict his moves. The fight was interrupted, but considering that X can predict all the moves and mastered every single style of martial arts on Earth, while Deadpool was defeated by the Cat, who is only a master of one martial art, Mister X should beat Deadpool effortlessly. But that's not what happened in the scans I posted.

 Pretty sure the showings from Deadpool Team-Up are not supposed to be canon


Why, is it not from Earth-616?
#16 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gremlin From Kremlin:  It has a different creative team each month and occasionally characters are portrayed in situations that contradict their current standings in other books. If it is canon, mea culpa, though, but I don't think it really matters, for the simple reason that the Mr X vs Deadpool encounter was written by Frank Tieri, the man who created Mr X, so, be it canon, or not, his opinion on if X should be able to read Deadpool, or not is indicative.
Moderator
#17 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_: Hmm.. Thanks for clearing this up. I'm a Mr. X fan too, and I think that he is certainly skilled enough to beat Deadpool in one move.
Nonetheless, I don't think X will be able to handle two of the best Earth's fighters simultaneously.
#18 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gremlin From Kremlin said:
"All right, I guess the case with Luke Cage and Iron Fist is an inconsistent showing. But what about his inability to dodge Songbird's sonic blast in time? He couldn't beat Songbird and Black Widow at the same time, despite the fact that he had the first strike. As well as predicting Ghost frying his brain and when fighting Agents of Atlas, he looked like a boy trying to show off and got in a choke hold by a robot..
Who were the people that Mr. X successfully read and beaten? Mister X was beaten by Wolverine in his feral state and his telepathy could do nothing about it. The fact that he is able to predict moves doesn't mean that he can block them all.
But mapping onto neural impulses and telepathy are two completely different things. Richard Dragon has beaten Lady Shiva on his own and she too is able to read and predict body movements.

I didn't see that with Songbird. I do remember him catching her dart and throwing it back at her, before turning around a blocking all of Black Widow's gunshots. The other instances I'm not familiar with. Do you have those instances available?

He KO'ed Wolverine their first fight, sans Berserker Rage mode. He's also humiliated Taskmaster in battle, as well. If he's able to predict moves, he should be able to block them all, unless his opponent is faster than he is.

I'm aware of them being two different things. But, they serve the same purpose, nonetheless. Besides, I'm only talking about telepathy, anyway. Lady Shiva reads moves via body language. The way she does it is different from X's method of doing it. Richard Dragon may not be as successful in this situation.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:
"Unfortunately, I can't find any direct proof to back up that statement, but I have this:


 

As it says "No fighting art is unknown to them" - that means that he knows drunken style. And Richard Dragon's primary martial art is Kung-Fu, which includes the Drunken Style.



These scans are Pre-Crisis... There's a large possibility that these statements may not even apply anymore.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:
"A far better fighter. And why do you hate to say it? The Cat is Shang-Chi's rival in terms of skill, isn't he? Deathstroke had been on the run? What issue are you referring to? They fought each other and Bronze Tiger had the upper hand, before Deadshot came and broke the fight. And I dare to notice that, during the fight, Deathstroke managed to slice through Bronze Tiger's shoulder with his knife. And Bronze Tiger has no superhuman endurance or a healing factor, so that can compensate for Slade being depowered. Sure, Deathstroke was trying to get away, but he was still trying to put down Bronze Tiger, because he himself stated "You don't want answers. And I haven't got the patience to give away", which clearly implies that Deathstroke was trying to get rid of him. The fatigued supersoldier utlizes 90% if his brain capacity and his brain processes hundreds of possible ways a battle can go. He predicted the way Flash would run and managed to tag him.
It was as if you tried to downplay X because he didn't defeat Deadpool, but then one-up Bronze Tiger because he was able to fight a gassed-out Deathstroke. That's why. Yes, the Cat is Shang-Chi's rival, and the fact that Deadpool couldn't beat him stands to reason that he's just not that skilled to begin with. 

Even if Deathstroke tried to fight, he was fatigued, which was why Bronze Tiger was able to fight him in the first place. At the same time, Deathstroke isn't even as skilled as Bronze Tiger, anyway. If tired and unable to fight to the best of his ability, there's no reason to give Bronze Tiger recognition for it. What he stated doesn't imply that he was trying to kill him. All he's saying is that he doesn't have to patience to talk. It doesn't mean that he wants to kill. If he was really using 90% of his brain capacity there, Bronze Tiger wouldn't have done so well in battle, and if Deathstroke wasn't so fatigued, he would have been able to use his brain capacity to his advantage. If he's doing more running than fighting, he must not be as interested in fighting as one would think. 

Tagging the Flash is impressive, but what does this have to do with anything? His ability to do it is even attributed to Flash's level of CIS (not moving faster than Deathstroke can react). Besides, Flash has been able to successfully blitz and pummel Deathstroke into unconsciousness, proving that the Flash could beat him anytime he wanted to.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:
"I'm not saying that Deadpool defeated Mister X, all I was saying is that he can't beat Deadpool, despite being able to read and predict his moves. The fight was interrupted, but considering that X can predict all the moves and mastered every single style of martial arts on Earth, while Deadpool was defeated by the Cat, who is only a master of one martial art, Mister X should beat Deadpool effortlessly. But that's not what happened in the scans I posted.

You didn't have to say it, really. You made it sound that way, but if that wasn't your intention, I apologize for misinterpreting your post. Thing is, the fight didn't last long enough for Mister X to defeat Deadpool effortlessly. With an interrupted fight, there's no telling what could have been, not to mention that they wasted two pages talking instead of fighting.
 


#19 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5444 posts) - - Show Bio

50/50

#20 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock: The Songbird thing happened because she hits him with a blast that was too large for him to avoid. He saw it coming, but it was like getting hit with a whale, nowhere to go.

Bronze Tiger knows every style (which would include Drunken) and though its possible that Richard Dragon could have been dumbed down after crisis, I don't think he was. And as he's still on par with (if not better than) Bronze Tiger, it would probably be because statements like him knowing every fighting style are true. That's not gospel or anything, but I think its likely that he's still a master of all martial arts. 
Moderator
#21 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:
" @Static Shock: The Songbird thing happened because she hits him with a blast that was too large for him to avoid. He saw it coming, but it was like getting hit with a whale, nowhere to go.

Bronze Tiger knows every style (which would include Drunken) and though its possible that Richard Dragon could have been dumbed down after crisis, I don't think he was. And as he's still on par with (if not better than) Bronze Tiger, it would probably be because statements like him knowing every fighting style are true. That's not gospel or anything, but I think its likely that he's still a master of all martial arts. 
"
Well, is there anything current that supports Bronze Tiger and Richard Dragon, as far as what they know in martial arts?
#22 Posted by karrob (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO the team should win

#23 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Buckshot said:
" @Static Shock: The Songbird thing happened because she hits him with a blast that was too large for him to avoid. He saw it coming, but it was like getting hit with a whale, nowhere to go.

Bronze Tiger knows every style (which would include Drunken) and though its possible that Richard Dragon could have been dumbed down after crisis, I don't think he was. And as he's still on par with (if not better than) Bronze Tiger, it would probably be because statements like him knowing every fighting style are true. That's not gospel or anything, but I think its likely that he's still a master of all martial arts. 
"
Well, is there anything current that supports Bronze Tiger and Richard Dragon, as far as what they know in martial arts? "
Bronze Tiger knowing every style is current.
Moderator
#24 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot:  Do you recall an issue/series where that is mentioned? The only instance I recall off hand is Catman saying "you have a defense for every style, Turner" in Secret Six.
Moderator
#25 Posted by Sobe Cin (599 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to vote for Richard Dragon and Bronze Tiger on this one. Dragon was one of the men that trained Batman for christ sake, so if he was going to get taken out, it would not be by such a low-level punk as Mr. X. Who honestly would get floored by Magneto.

#26 Edited by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio


I think the team wins this, Richard Dragon could probably solo because he has beaten Lady Shiva before and she could read body language so I don't think Mr. X's low level telepathy will matter that much since Richard has fought and defeated someone with similar abilities.

 

Just My 2 Cents

#27 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:

" Bronze Tiger knowing every style is current. "

You said that already. I'm asking if there's anything current to support that. 
@Sobe Cin said:

" I have to vote for Richard Dragon and Bronze Tiger on this one. Dragon was one of the men that trained Batman for christ sake, so if he was going to get taken out, it would not be by such a low-level punk as Mr. X. Who honestly would get floored by Magneto. "

Magneto would floor everyone else here, too. How is that even relevant, anyway?


@nick_hero22 said: 

I think the team wins this, Richard Dragon could probably solo because he has beaten Lady Shiva before and she could read body language "

Shiva reads moves via body language, while X reads moves via telepathy. While they both serve the same purpose, they aren't the same method. Using his ability to fight Shiva doesn't carry over in this fight, based on that. 
#28 Edited by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio

 I didn't see that with Songbird. I do remember him catching her dart and throwing it back at her, before turning around a blocking all of Black Widow's gunshots. The other instances I'm not familiar with. Do you have those instances available?
He KO'ed Wolverine their first fight, sans Berserker Rage mode. He's also humiliated Taskmaster in battle, as well. If he's able to predict moves, he should be able to block them all, unless his opponent is faster than he is.

I'm aware of them being two different things. But, they serve the same purpose, nonetheless. Besides, I'm only talking about telepathy, anyway. Lady Shiva reads moves via body language. The way she does it is different from X's method of doing it. Richard Dragon may not be as successful in this situation.

Yeah, and after that he couldn't do anything to dodge Songbird's sonic blast. (Thunderbolts #135). This is the instance with Ghost:

And this is the instance with M-11:


I read almost all the issues I could find with Mr. X, so I'm aware of his fights with Wolverine. Either one on Team 2 can humiliate Taskmaster.
What skilled opponents has he beaten other than Wolverine (his main enemy) and Taskmaster?

Lady Shiva is still able to predict moves and she is in top 3 of the best martial artists in DC.
Both her and X can predict moves, but they do it differently. Do you think Mister X outclasses Ben and Richard in pure skill as well?

 These scans are Pre-Crisis... There's a large possibility that these statements may not even apply anymore

.
...
Were the street-levelers really affected by the COIE? I though it only retconned uber powerful characters, like PC Darkseid, Kryptonians, Validus, etc.
Again, both Richard Dragon and Bronze Tiger are masters of Kung-Fu. It is safe to assume that they know the drunken style. They are almost on par with Lady Shiva, who is a master of ALL martial arts on Earth, even the forgotten styles. That surely includes the drunken style.




 It was as if you tried to downplay X because he didn't defeat Deadpool, but then one-up Bronze Tiger because he was able to fight a gassed-out Deathstroke. That's why. Yes, the Cat is Shang-Chi's rival, and the fact that Deadpool couldn't beat him stands to reason that he's just not that skilled to begin with. 
Even if Deathstroke tried to fight, he was fatigued, which was why Bronze Tiger was able to fight him in the first place. At the same time, Deathstroke isn't even as skilled as Bronze Tiger, anyway. If tired and unable to fight to the best of his ability, there's no reason to give Bronze Tiger recognition for it. What he stated doesn't imply that he was trying to kill him. All he's saying is that he doesn't have to patience to talk. It doesn't mean that he wants to kill. If he was really using 90% of his brain capacity there, Bronze Tiger wouldn't have done so well in battle, and if Deathstroke wasn't so fatigued, he would have been able to use his brain capacity to his advantage. If he's doing more running than fighting, he must not be as interested in fighting as one would think. 

Tagging the Flash is impressive, but what does this have to do with anything? His ability to do it is even attributed to Flash's level of CIS (not moving faster than Deathstroke can react). Besides, Flash has been able to successfully blitz and pummel Deathstroke into unconsciousness, proving that the Flash could beat him anytime he wanted to.


I wasn't trying to downplay him, I was just showing that even a very skilled character like Mr. X is not always victorious in fights.. And then yeah, I compared that to Bronze Tiger vs Deathstroke fight. But I really doubt that Deadpool will beat even a gassed-out Deathstroke.
Was he really fatigued during that issue of Suicide Squad? He didn't look like it.. And he has superhuman endurance and a healing factor, unlike Bronze Tiger. Well, if Deathstroke doesn't have patience, then he probably has no patience for Bronze Tiger trying to pursue him, which is why he was trying to get rid of him. Why wouldn't Bronze Tiger hadn't done so well in batlle? Deathstroke had trouble with characters that are more skilled than him, Batgirl is a great example. And Deathstroke slashed Bronze Tiger's shoulder in the fight there. And a wounded normal human fighting a fatigued supersoldier with superhuman edurance and regeneration should be pretty even.

Tagging the Flash states about Deathstroke's reaction time and how fast his brain operates (maybe even faster than X can read). I agree that Flash can beat Slade anytime he wants to, but there is a clear difference of  Deathstroke's fights with Flash, Kid Flash and other speedsters with how quickly Mister X got pummeled by Quicksilver.


 You didn't have to say it, really. You made it sound that way, but if that wasn't your intention, I apologize for misinterpreting your post. Thing is, the fight didn't last long enough for Mister X to defeat Deadpool effortlessly. With an interrupted fight, there's no telling what could have been, not to mention that they wasted two pages talking instead of fighting.


 It's all right, there's no offence taken at all.
Does Mister X really need a lot of time to defeat Deadpool? Based on how fast and easily he deflects bullets with a smile on his face, he should've been able to shred Deadpool to pieces with a single movement of his sword, but he called him "a challenge" on the scans I posted.
Mister X is a pretty inconsistent character.. And apparently Deadpool Team-Up is non-canon now.
#29 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"Yeah, and after that he couldn't do anything to dodge Songbird's sonic blast.... 

Which was because the blast too wide for him to dodge, as someone else revealed. I don't see how this can be used against him.
@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"This is the instance with Ghost:


Ghost was intangible, and as he stated, his intangibility prevented Mister X from reading him. This can't be used against him here, either. 

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"
And this is the instance with M-11:


M-11 is a robot. Although he possesses a consciousness, he doesn't have a human brain to read. This can't be used against him here, either.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"I read almost all the issues I could find with Mr. X, so I'm aware of his fights with Wolverine. Either one on Team 2 can humiliate Taskmaster.
What skilled opponents has he beaten other than Wolverine (his main enemy) and Taskmaster?

Lady Shiva is still able to predict moves and she is in top 3 of the best martial artists in DC.
Both her and X can predict moves, but they do it differently. Do you think Mister X outclasses Ben and Richard in pure skill as well?

Should it matter who Mister X has fought other than those two? Fact is, his ability to read moves worked on both of them. I fail to see how it wouldn't help him here. All of your examples of Mister X falling short aren't even against normal human fighters, but against people he can't use his powers against in certain situations.

Lady Shiva being the one of the top fighters in DC is a technicality. You brought her up because Richard Dragon defeated her, despite her ability to read moves, disregarding the fact that X's move reading isn't the same as Shiva's. The fact that he's able to predict moves via telepathy means that his ability to do so is more accurate than being able to read the body to predict moves. I'm not quite sure if Mister X outclasses them, but he should be very capable of fighting them, either way. He should be equal to them at the very least, and unlike them, he was currently stated to be a master of every fighting style. Ben's skill level is impressive, but it's also questionable. His rep only comes from fighting Batman (and he failed to defeat him in a second encounter, anyway). He has very little feats of his own, and Mister X has more feats than he does.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"Were the street-levelers really affected by the COIE? I though it only retconned uber powerful characters, like PC Darkseid, Kryptonians, Validus, etc.
Again, both Richard Dragon and Bronze Tiger are masters of Kung-Fu. It is safe to assume that they know the drunken style. They are almost on par with Lady Shiva, who is a master of ALL martial arts on Earth, even the forgotten styles. That surely includes the drunken style.

Many characters have gone through retcons since then. For example, Batman was stated to be skilled in all fighting styles, but a master of none of them during Pre-Crisis. Post-Crisis, he's retconned to be a master of 127 fighting styles. Richard Dragon's character was retconned in his mini-series (the same series he fought Lady Shiva in), and I don't remember anything about him being a master of all the fighting styles in the world there. Even if they are masters of kung-fu, they would have to know about his telepathy to use drunken style against him.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"I wasn't trying to downplay him, I was just showing that even a very skilled character like Mr. X is not always victorious in fights.. And then yeah, I compared that to Bronze Tiger vs Deathstroke fight. But I really doubt that Deadpool will beat even a gassed-out Deathstroke.
Was he really fatigued during that issue of Suicide Squad? He didn't look like it.. And he has superhuman endurance and a healing factor, unlike Bronze Tiger. Well, if Deathstroke doesn't have patience, then he probably has no patience for Bronze Tiger trying to pursue him, which is why he was trying to get rid of him. Why wouldn't Bronze Tiger hadn't done so well in batlle? Deathstroke had trouble with characters that are more skilled than him, Batgirl is a great example. And Deathstroke slashed Bronze Tiger's shoulder in the fight there. And a wounded normal human fighting a fatigued supersoldier with superhuman edurance and regeneration should be pretty even.

Even if Deadpool couldn't beat Deathstroke, what does that have to do with Mister X, for that matter? What point are you trying to make? Yes, he was fatigued from being on the run for several days. This was implied in the book. It was in Deathstroke's ongoing, not in Suicide Squad. His superhuman endurance means what if he's tired? The fact that it's superhuman doesn't mean that he doesn't get exhausted. Having a healing factor doesn't mean that he cannot be hurt, either. He stated that he didn't have patience, and even when he tried to fight back, he still continued to run from Bronze Tiger when he created distance for himself. If he was really trying to kill Bronze Tiger, he would have stayed there and continued the fight, but he didn't. So, he obviously wasn't trying to kill anybody. Bronze Tiger did well because Deathstroke is handicapped. Had he been at peak physical condition, he would have defeated Bronze Tiger with ease, despite how skilled he is. This stems from Deathstroke's ability to defeat Batman for the first time. After the fight, Deathstroke admitted that Batman was better-skilled than he was and that he won only because of his physical enhancements. Batgirl, even though she kept him on his toes, admitted that she couldn't beat Deathstroke in a real fight and that she was unable to read him successfully because his body was like a 'choir.' Having a gash in your arm =/= being fatigued. That doesn't make sense. Injury and exhaustion don't go hand in hand. The fight was not even and Deathstroke wasn't fighting to the best of his ability, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

"Tagging the Flash states about Deathstroke's reaction time and how fast his brain operates (maybe even faster than X can read). I agree that Flash can beat Slade anytime he wants to, but there is a clear difference of  Deathstroke's fights with Flash, Kid Flash and other speedsters with how quickly Mister X got pummeled by Quicksilver."

Slower people than the Flash have tagged Deathstroke before, anyway. I'm not sure why you're making comparisons between X and Deathstroke. Deathstroke isn't in this fight, so whatever point you're trying to make from this cannot stand up in this debate. Bronze Tiger and Richard Dragon cannot defeat Quicksilver, either.

That entire quote is a red herring.

@Gremlin From Kremlin said:

" It's all right, there's no offence taken at all. Does Mister X really need a lot of time to defeat Deadpool? Based on how fast and easily he deflects bullets with a smile on his face, he should've been able to shred Deadpool to pieces with a single movement of his sword, but he called him "a challenge" on the scans I posted.Mister X is a pretty inconsistent character.. And apparently Deadpool Team-Up is non-canon now. "

Your own scans show that the fight was interrupted just as soon as it started, and X and Deadpool wasted two pages talking to each other before they actually started fighting. How do you expect Mister X to win immediately, based on that? This doesn't make Mister X any less of a fighter.
#30 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronze Tiger and Richard dragon win here. Mister X may read their thoughts and reroute his reflexes, but they are both faster and are both better martial artists. Eventually X's muscles will not be fast enough to respond to their attacks not to mention that he will fatigue first, further slowing his muscle responses because of lactic acid.

#31 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster: How are they faster than Mister X?
#32 Edited by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:

"

                    @weaponmaster: How are they faster than Mister X?

                   

                "


Genetics.
#33 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:
" Genetics. "
I'm confused. 


#34 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
"

                    @weaponmaster said:
"
Genetics.

                   

                "
I'm confused. 




                   

                "

Confused about what?
#35 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:
" Confused about what? "
I was hoping you'd give examples of their speed. When you said genetics, I threw me off. Is there a description or issue that states that their speed comes from genetics, rather than training?
#36 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
"

                    @weaponmaster said:
"
Confused about what?

                   

                "
I was hoping you'd give examples of their speed. When you said genetics, I threw me off. Is there a description or issue that states that their speed comes from genetics, rather than training?

                   

                "

Since they all 3 are almost equally trained (they all pretty much know every martial art) then it comes down to genetics as they have speed feats (dodging bullets as opposed to blocking bullets) that are at least equal to mister X's except they did not have the benefit of his telepathy meaning their intrinsic speed is greater.
#37 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:
Since they all 3 are almost equally trained (they all pretty much know every martial art) then it comes down to genetics as they have speed feats (dodging bullets as opposed to blocking bullets) that are at least equal to mister X's except they did not have the benefit of his telepathy meaning their intrinsic speed is greater. "
I've never seen Ben and Richard dodge bullets.
#38 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock:
Ben has dodged bullets, but it's arguable he's just too fast for the shooter to aim properly rather than dodge the bullet after its been fired towards him. I'll dig up some scans.
Moderator
#39 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_: Aight. 
#40 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio







@Static Shock
said:
"

                    @weaponmaster said:
Since they all 3 are almost equally trained (they all pretty much know every martial art) then it comes down to genetics as they have speed feats (dodging bullets as opposed to blocking bullets) that are at least equal to mister X's except they did not have the benefit of his telepathy meaning their intrinsic speed is greater.

                   

                "
I've never seen Ben and Richard dodge bullets.

                   

                "




#41 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock: Hmm. Come to think of it, I was under the impression that there was more than this, but it's the only one I could find in my Bronze Tiger folder.

Moderator
#42 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_: Thanks.

@weaponmaster: It looks as if Richard is the one dodging, while Ben is trying to take cover. But, it's okay. Morpheus proved your point for you on Ben with other scan.

I wanna say that the genetics thing makes sense, but Mister X was able to keep up with Wolverine and eventually defeat him the first time they fought. At the same time, Wolverine has also been able to dodge bullets without the benefit of telepathy or anything. Even Taskmaster, who could catch bullets, was still slower than X. 
#43 Edited by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:

"

                    @Morpheus_: Thanks.


@weaponmaster: It looks as if Richard is the one dodging, while Ben is trying to take cover. But, it's okay. Morpheus proved your point for you on Ben with other scan.

I wanna say that the genetics thing makes sense, but Mister X was able to keep up with Wolverine and eventually defeat him the first time they fought. At the same time, Wolverine has also been able to dodge bullets without the benefit of telepathy or anything. Even Taskmaster, who could catch bullets, was still slower than X. 


                   

                "


He just beat me to finding and posting that scan is all. I wanted to post each of them dodging on *separate posts for dramatic emphasis. I could have readily proven my own point.

 

Yes but Mister X used telepathy on Wolverine and taskmaster (who i think is faster minus X's Telepathy also). If mister X didn't posees his telepathy he would not seem faster than either Wolverine or taskmaster. That is why i say that Ben And Richard are genetically faster as they achieve X's feats and greater without Telepathy also.

 

Edit: *typo

#44 Posted by entropy_aegis (15317 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster:

The scan is non cannon though.
#45 Posted by entropy_aegis (15317 posts) - - Show Bio

Though Tiger has dodged bullets in Knightquest when he and Batman travelled to Santa Prisca.

#46 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster: He did use telepathy on both of them, but what I got from your argument is that X wouldn't be able to read them because they are faster without the benefit of telepathy. Wolverine and Taskmaster could be held to same standard as Ben and Richard since they have been able to dodge bullets and the like. The only problem is that X didn't have trouble reading them, and defeated them rather easily. 

It's also possible that X is faster than Taskmaster without the use of telepathy, as he beats him to the top of the cage when Taskmaster had a head start. 



 
#47 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:
"

                    @weaponmaster: The scan is non cannon though.

                   

                "

There are other scans of Richard dodging bullets.
#48 Posted by entropy_aegis (15317 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:
" @entropy_aegis said:
"

                    @weaponmaster: The scan is non cannon though.

                   

                "
There are other scans of Richard dodging bullets. "
I believe both Dragon v1 and 2 are non cannon.To give them both the benefit of the doubt though  both volumes were supposed to be in canon orignally but were retconned later.
#49 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

It's amazing how the best martial artist in DC gets retconned left and right, despite his only two short-living volumes. 

#50 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis: How was Richard Dragon v2 retconned?