#1 Edited by laflux (16044 posts) - - Show Bio

Mister Negative and Gorgon vs Spider-Man, Kaine and Wolverine

Battle rules and conditions

Current versions, except Spider-Man who now has the Power-Set of the Other, as well as his training and current gear. Both of team 1 wield adamantium katanas.

Mr Negative is not allowed Mind-Control under any conditions.

Each team has a solid idea of their opponents and abilities.

Round 1. Team 2 have morals but have 10 minutes to formulate a plan to take down Team 1. Team 1 has no morals

Round 2. No Morals for for Team 2. However Team 1 have been commissioned by Kang to bring in Team 1 alive. Killing anyone of the Team 2 results in an instant forfeit.

Round 3. No Morals on either side.

Round 4. Same as Round 3, except no stone stare or webbing is allowed.

Location

Combatants start at opposite ends of the second row between the stacks of cars.

#2 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Team two. Wolverine should be able to handle Mr. Negative long enough to allow Spidey and Kaine to take a decisive majority against Gorgon.

#3 Posted by laflux (16044 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Team two. Wolverine should be able to handle Mr. Negative long enough to allow Spidey and Kaine to take a decisive majority against Gorgon.

Even without webbing ?

#4 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably. I personally think no morals Spider-Man, particularly with the Other power set and current training, could solo Gorgon.

#5 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2. kaine is a beast. everybody else distracts them and he just snaps their necks.

#6 Posted by Strider92 (16523 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: I'll go with Team 2.

Round 2: I'll go with Team 1.

Round 3: Definitely Team 1. Logan likes to tank damage and that here will be the teams undoing. Mr. Negative could just possess him and then they gang the others.

Round 4: Definitely Team 1. Same reason I said for Round 3.

#7 Posted by laflux (16044 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Probably. I personally think no morals Spider-Man, particularly with the Other power set and current training, could solo Gorgon.

Really? While he definitely has a large strength advantage, healers tend to have a large damage soak i.e Daken withstanding Skaar's and Thing's punches, so I don't think Spider-Man will be one-shotting him. Gorgon's combat speed is most likely equal to Spider-Man, considering how easily he was able to take Logan by surprise, and has enough speed and reflexes to tag speedsters with ease. All he needs is really one could swipe with his sword and the battle is turned in Gorgon's favor.

#8 Posted by heroesgold (608 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Team two. Wolverine should be able to handle Mr. Negative long enough to allow Spidey and Kaine to take a decisive majority against Gorgon.
#9 Posted by laflux (16044 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Round 1: I'll go with Team 2.

Round 2: I'll go with Team 1.

Round 3: Definitely Team 1. Logan likes to tank damage and that here will be the teams undoing. Mr. Negative could just possess him and then they gang the others.

Round 4: Definitely Team 1. Same reason I said for Round 3.

I did say that Mr Negative wasn't allowed possession.

#10 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorgon's combat speed is probably similar to regular Pete's. The Other version was faster, stronger and his stingers were able to stop at least one mystically charged weapon; on top of that, you took Spider-Man at his physical apex, made him at his most highly trained version and gave him his more advanced standard gear. Due to his limited showings, you have to factor in his struggles against Iron Fist when evaluating the character. Based on average showings, Peter alone is arguably enough to give Gorgon troubles, but the particular version you've given us here is better than any we've seen in comic history--excluding unipower Spidey--and you've added Kaine to the mix, someone who has the speed in his own right to take out speedsters and is extremely formidable on his own. Mr. Negative, while tough, is limited here in that he cannot possess Logan and his primary weapon is a sword, which Logan excels at combatting, being an excellent swordsman in his own right and being used to fighting high-caliber opponents like the Silver Samurai.

#11 Posted by laflux (16044 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Gorgon's combat speed is probably similar to regular Pete's. The Other version was faster, stronger and his stingers were able to stop at least one mystically charged weapon; on top of that, you took Spider-Man at his physical apex, made him at his most highly trained version and gave him his more advanced standard gear. Due to his limited showings, you have to factor in his struggles against Iron Fist when evaluating the character. Based on average showings, Peter alone is arguably enough to give Gorgon troubles, but the particular version you've given us here is better than any we've seen in comic history--excluding unipower Spidey--and you've added Kaine to the mix, someone who has the speed in his own right to take out speedsters and is extremely formidable on his own. Mr. Negative, while tough, is limited here in that he cannot possess Logan and his primary weapon is a sword, which Logan excels at combatting, being an excellent swordsman in his own right and being used to fighting high-caliber opponents like the Silver Samurai.

I'd say that What If Spider-Man would be at least as effective as this version. My thinking would be that while Gorgon fights Logan, Mr Negative takes on Kaine and Spider-Man.

#12 Edited by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

The What If version of Spidey you are referring to had a heightened spider sense, but so did the Other version of Spider-Man--he did utilize it to find May's shooter in a crowded subway station, after all--and I'd personally argue that Way of the Spider is superior to the government and Wolverine-centric training What If Spidey received. While I do think that What If version of Spidey did have an edge with regard to a slightly superior spider sense, it's not enough to compensate for the fact that he's inferior in strength and durability by a substantial amount and his reflexes are slower, as well as the fact his webbing is inferior and he doesn't have the stingers. Also, while Mr. Negative is good, he isn't good enough to engage both Spidey and Kaine simultaneously, and one of the two will be free to assist Logan in a worst case scenario.

#13 Posted by laflux (16044 posts) - - Show Bio

Your thoughts?

#14 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6365 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

Your thoughts?

I'd say BringnIt is doing a dandy job and I agree pretty much with his assessment.

@BringnIt:

Welcome back ... hadn't seen you post in a little while.

#15 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII Thanks. Haven't been too many battles I've seen lately that were worthy of much in the way of a debate.

#16 Posted by laflux (16044 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@Super_SoldierXII Thanks. Haven't been too many battles I've seen lately that were worthy of much in the way of a debate.

I'll take that as a compliment that my thread is worthy of your time.

#17 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6365 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Round 1: I'll go with Team 2.

Round 2: I'll go with Team 1.

Round 3: Definitely Team 1. Logan likes to tank damage and that here will be the teams undoing. Mr. Negative could just possess him and then they gang the others.

Round 4: Definitely Team 1. Same reason I said for Round 3.

OK. I'll give laflux's thread a bumpity bump.

Not sure Mr. Negative could possess Logan. Level 9 PSI shields courtesy of Xavier being what they are and all.

I realize a young Jean Grey recently did it, but I'm waiting for Bendis' plot device explanation. I reckon it'll somehow have something to do with the fact it's "Jean Grey" and can thereby bypass (perhaps Xavier devised it so she could?) more so than she's powerful enough to do so.

#18 Posted by Strider92 (16523 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Strider92 said:

Round 1: I'll go with Team 2.

Round 2: I'll go with Team 1.

Round 3: Definitely Team 1. Logan likes to tank damage and that here will be the teams undoing. Mr. Negative could just possess him and then they gang the others.

Round 4: Definitely Team 1. Same reason I said for Round 3.

OK. I'll give laflux's thread a bumpity bump.

Not sure Mr. Negative could possess Logan. Level 9 PSI shields courtesy of Xavier being what they are and all.

I realize a young Jean Grey recently did it, but I'm waiting for Bendis' plot device explanation. I reckon it'll somehow have something to do with the fact it's "Jean Grey" and can thereby bypass (perhaps Xavier devised it so she could?) more so than she's powerful enough to do so.

He could because his powers aren't pisonic in nature. They pull out your negative emotions and he then bends you to his will. No telepathy or pisonics are involved.

#19 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6365 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Strider92 said:

Round 1: I'll go with Team 2.

Round 2: I'll go with Team 1.

Round 3: Definitely Team 1. Logan likes to tank damage and that here will be the teams undoing. Mr. Negative could just possess him and then they gang the others.

Round 4: Definitely Team 1. Same reason I said for Round 3.

OK. I'll give laflux's thread a bumpity bump.

Not sure Mr. Negative could possess Logan. Level 9 PSI shields courtesy of Xavier being what they are and all.

I realize a young Jean Grey recently did it, but I'm waiting for Bendis' plot device explanation. I reckon it'll somehow have something to do with the fact it's "Jean Grey" and can thereby bypass (perhaps Xavier devised it so she could?) more so than she's powerful enough to do so.

He could because his powers aren't pisonic in nature. They pull out your negative emotions and he then bends you to his will. No telepathy or pisonics are involved.

Pshh yeah right. Like Logan has any negative emotio ... err ... I see your point.