Hunt and Destroy
Ever heard of Thunder Dome? Same concept. Two squads go in, and one comes out. What else I need to say?
My opener, Yes ik this is the same opener I've used before, but i didnt get to really use in a CaV that didn't even begin, so I apologize for my laziness.
When toph was young she was a natural earth bender. She was born and raised by a wealth earth kingdom family whom was very protective of her. She lived with them for her early years, but later on joined aang and the gang to explore the new world and to also be his teacher. Now I know people like to say "Well duh she is from the earth kingdom she should be naturally good at earth bending", but that is not what I mean. She is leagues above most earth benders even talented ones. Despite her "disability" aka being blind she has shown to be a great earth benders and a formidable foe alike. Even though she is blind she doesn't fear it, nor have a fear if she is not necessary able to "see." With that in mind she has also allowed and accept help in plenty of situations that have happened one where she was basically blind to attacking a flying enemy and katara helped her out by telling toph where the bugs were at, and she had nailed them without much of a problem. Although she does suffer from having brief anger problems and the urge to prove someone wrong, she does have patience as much as people don't seem to think. On top of having somewhat of great patience when it comes to dealing with team members she can be a great team member when fighting other people, and is more than willing to listen suggested especially when she is struggling against a foe on how to do a better attack or fight a different way per say. However, she is not bad herself and uses the environment to her advantage quite effectively. In addition she has also defeated some famous and deadly fodder foes alike these are a few examples of some of the foes and fodder alike she has defeated,
the earth rumble six benders
and Dai Lee agents from the earth kingdom
Now These people are not necessary the best benders out there, but they can do some amazing bending moves and are still good fighters in their own respects. At least in the avatar universe, on top of that Toph has been able to defeat fire benders, two earth bending masters, has fought tons of times against fire benders, acrobatics, crazy water benders, and more. In addition Toph brings to the table a powerful move that puts here again above other earth benders even the masters like King Bumi for the simple as displayed down below.
I like to call it the Toph sense.
In addition toph she is an overall tactical fighter, with powerful and precise attacks and a display of great durability which I will go more in depth with as this CaV carries on. She will be able to help the team greatly, especially with a starting distance the closer the enemy does come in the better she can read them and offer suggests or help to her fellow allies. On top of attacking on her own as well and being able to act on foes that do come within her area and wish to challenge the great earth bender from the avatar series, with this in mind I do believe due to tophs rare sense, fighting ability, and overall more positive personality compared to others she will be an important member of this team and a possibly a force to be reckoned with.
Mara Jade Skywalker, an assassin, smugger, Jedi master, Soldier, and Wife was a famous Assassin for the Empire that fell in love with one of her most dangerous targets; Luke Skywalker. Mara Jade Skywalker was a child when she was taken by the Emperor from her parents to serve in a secret program that was similar to like Darth maul's training. She did countless missions and lead imperial troops against rebellions and even the Rebel Alliance that were behind the scenes and extremely dangerous. These missions were almost impossible to live from and were very classified. On top of that she used a decent amount of gear even though she was a force user and trained to do so at an early age this didn't stop her though from using other weapons besides her light sabers. In addition to doing dangerous tasks her most noteworthy target, which was Luke Skywalker, however ended up falling alive with him and then marrying him and had children together. She was in some of the major wars that broke out like The Galactic Civil war and The Yuuzhan Vong War, and years after she was killed off by Darth Caedus who was almost killed by her, yet used last minute Illusion to save his own skin and kill Mara.
As I said this is very brief and of course I've missed out on some history points, but none the less this isnt about history on her, but how variable she can be.
Mara is very skilled at what she does, she stops at nothing and always looks forward in facing a challenge. She has even been a dancer for Jubba the hutt in order to achieve her target luke sky walker, she uses her cunning wit and skill to also bring down Crime Lords on the order of Darth Sidious, and even used her tracking to find and duel Lumiya and Jacen Solo. She also uses guns which can give her the edge in range as well and a light saber for melee combat if need be. She is considered a good shot and has killed with her guns before plenty of times.
The Gear she uses can range from
Blaster Pistols as shown down below
Blaster Rifles
and melee weapons like the vibroblade and light saber
As for her force powers, she has the ability like all jedi have which is standard telepathy, but she has focused on it as well to help her in situations along with various other force powers like, push, pull, stun, etc. This makes her without a doubt though a powerful force to be seen on my team and on the battlefield, with various force powers, and her allies providing dangerous attacks as well. She should be able to use her force powers to offset the people she faces.
Mara Jade Skywalker is similar to toph in personality to a certain extent, both seen rather down to earth people once you get to know them, and seem to be always looking for a challenge. On top of having some amazing skills and force powers Mara due to the Emperor's training at a young age as well is able to be calm and focused on the battlefield. This skill set along with tophs and heck even Ivy's will just further aid their team work as frustration will be less likely to break out between them as well.As for Poison Ivy she may not agree with her thought on people, but she is a jedi and will be willing to respect her views as long as they obviously aren't being used against her and her other most likely new found friend. Being able to use at least a ranged weapon and possibly various other tools including a light saber, she should be able to take out anyone on your team with her stealth skills as well and her fighting ability. Nevertheless I doubt my team will have any in fighting and they all believe in somewhat being trained, so with them working together I'm sure they can come up with a master plan in no time and personalities should mix in well.
Pamela Lillian Isley, lived with a rich and wealthy family although distant from her parents the route she took wasn't her at first. Pamela, went to college in Seattle, Washington where she ended up meeting Dr. Jason Woodrue and although she would have a crush for him he didn't and would use this to gain his own needs. This means in other words she was needing her for testing and experimenting to which Pamela realized after what had happened.
She soon after tried to become one with the earth, and after struggling with mankind she had enough with humans set her ways to cleanse the world so to speak and by any means necessary. After though she came into contact with the batman which sparked a love/hate relationship as batman had put an end to most of her plans due to man kind, but was also charmed that he seemed to be the only real person that could resist her toxins and mind controlling powers. As time went on Ivy joined various evil villain and anti hero groups, this also helped her make friends with Harley Quinn and Cat Woman, which were prolly her only friends. In the end she is willing to work without so to speak besides certain people like the joker. However, since my group is mostly female this increases my odds alot as she doesn't get as angry at females as much as men. Doesn't mean it's always the case, just its a positive in my view.
Love dust/mind controlling,
Plants both in the ground and on her
Kiss of Death
Anyway she has great spells and more feats to back it up. If you got any questions though feel free to ask.
Ivy may not always be the best team player, but she is always willing to help out if she feels like she can trust who she works with. The two people she will be working with will not disagree with her views, nor care to her too much for I feel they could all get a long quite well. Ivy may not be as warm and joyful as Toph and Mara, but she has dealt with Harley Quinn for a lot and we all know how crazy Harley can be at times. In a way though I feel she will be able to fit in quite well especially when toph can control the earth, she might see her as a sister and possibly best friend as well. While toph being a loner like her and Mara will help connect them as well.
This is just a game plan of course I expect debate over this, but nonetheless its always nice to have one.
Anyway thats my opener, looking forward to yours and your counters that will most likely soon follow during your opener. I'm done good luck! @higorm
Alright so I do want to point out personalities will have to mix in this, having a villain and heroes on the side mite cause problems. I do note though either way blackbolt will suffer IIRC he wasn't the brightest of the bunch and I will show wise soon as we begin to debate this. I don't like targeting unnecessary areas, but I feel it could help explain why my people would be able to do the things they can do. Anyway unto the argument itself.
"Blackout will access and manipulate Darkforce Matter - an extra-dimensional energy from the Darkforce Dimension, to create various constructs of different density which he can control. These constructs are nearly indestructible, so he can and will use them to imprision your team members. First he willl cover the whole map with darkforce matter, creating a "darkbox", from which your team can't scape."
^Excellent plan, but let me point out some faults
He doesn't apply it to some fights which imo in character this would make it a 50 50 chance, on top of that he has no idea where my team is nor anyway to sense them which in turn gives me the edge, as I have two ways of knowing where your team is at and on top of that from what Ive remembered he also is very TP prone, in other words dust from Ivy or heck even mind tricks for Mara Jade will cause him to actually shift to my side seeing as he has hardly any TP resistance at all assuming you are talking about the black bolt I'm thinking of. anyway some proof down below
Problems with Baron Zemo
suffers from mind control
Used it on his teammates by mistake as well, thus causing even a win by me to a point as he has imprisoned his teammates instead of his foes, the Avengers.
Proof as always for my mind control and TP.
Ivy's mind control obviously
and Mara Jades TP/mind control.
Now I understand Ivy wont prolly be close enough to get them but in one my plans
Problem for Ivy's love dust not spreading fast enough nor having a quick way to get to them unless mara jade picks her up and rushes with her. This could be a possibility but i doubt it seeing that it is in character afterall and due to you forming your own smoke screen this should be rather different. However in the end the results the same with TP effecting him efficiently turning your mighty box against you.
To make things worse IIRC blackout is also just above peak human, which in turn only furthers my own gains as I doubt he could last against any Toph or Ivy would use to finish him off. This brings me to your next character and his faults as well.
"Next we have Shroud using his power to fill the darkbox, summoning the absolute darkness by opening a mystical portal into the Darkforce Dimension and drawing its thick, inky atmosphere in various quantities. It should be noted that the Shroud possesses a mystical sense of perception enabling him to "see" even through his own mantle of darkness. This mystical sense gives him psychic impressions of his environment within a radius of about 100 feet of him. Unlike Daredevil, the Shroud can receive non-visual sensory impressions through solid objects. Thus, he can perceive people and objects in the room next to him with the ease that he can perceive the contents of the room he is in. The full offensive capabilities of Shroud's darkness have yet to be fully explored, but he has used it to physically incapacitate foes. One such example of this would be during the Civil War arc, when Wonder Man (who has extreme levels of durability) was momentarily incapacitated by a one-handed darkness attack released by Shroud. One may theorize that his power does not pack direct, kinetic force but rather, an intangible strength that can directly interfere with a individual's physical mass."
^ Once more you prove a valid point, problem is Shroud is only human which makes him a target for even my most basic of attacks like tophs rocks and metal bending in the area which she can do, this doesn't even bring up the two other powerful allies. He is also not necessary known to smoke up an area especially instantly without even visualizing his foes. He's somewhat of a cross between Batman and a smoky person in the sense he likes to get up and personal which is a problem even in the smoke screen toph can see him just fine, and Mara can sense him once more just fine. On top of that they do prolly have better reflexes from him as well and this brings us to my providing proof that your guy isn't all about just smoking up and sneaking around,
Fighting Daredevil
Fighting once more against DD
Random thugs
Once more engages random people but in hand to hand again
This again only furthers me as Mara Jade could and will match him in fight skills and toph can easily end him in any type of fighting as well. Even if he gets past them Poison Ivy just simply blows dust in the area to mind control him. Although you did want to smoke up the area as I said two of my people will still have vision and his blackened area does take time to effect, and once more something I haven't noticed that he uses right off the bat. Anyway onto the next point,
"Finally we have Darkstar's control of the Darkforce, an extra-dimensional energy comprising an entire pocket dimension, and thus granting her a number of superhuman abilities. While capable of utilizing the Darkforce for various purposes, Darkstar usually causes it to behave like energy or matter. Most often, it was presented as solid, mentally controlled objects which possessed the density of steel; such objects included pincers, rings, columns, and spheres, or beams of concussive force. Darkstar is also able to teleport herself and up to three individuals by opening a portal into the Darkforce dimension and traveling through it. The maximum distance Darkstar can travel in this manner has yet to be revealed, however, teleporting often leaves her disoriented and sensitive to light, making teleportation risky in dangerous situations. Darkstar is also able to levitate and fly at subsonic speeds by creating a virtually invisible portal to the Darkforce dimension along the contours of her body without passing through it."
^ Now, she is an interesting person,, but never the less unless she shows tp resistance this will be a problem as she is bound to be attacked some time or another by it. On top of that if she teleports the team somewhere Mara Jade will be able to sense her and toph will as well as long as they touch the ground. She might move fast but i doubt that's her could blitz anyone necessary due to the fact of your team not knowing where mine is nor being able to detect mine as well due to the fact that once more mine will be able to use tp and tk if need be. Furthermore any escape like the Teleportation you bring up only weakens her in this situation and honestly will end up costing your team imo. However, feel free to prove me wrong.
Basically your team will be rendered useless and powerless among all that darkforce going on inside the dark box, being striked from multiple directions, by several different ways, throught the powers of my darkforce team. They can use teleportation to avoid your attempt of atacks and strike from distance, going in and out until everybody on your team goes down for good.
^ My team will not be useless nor powerless considering we know where you are, we have basically situation of a random encounter with no prep in favor of us and awareness along with various other ways of bringing your team down, now I will bring up my tactics once more only toph and her smoke screen will be gone along with the possibility of ivy not dusting the area, however she can just like toph hold the front while Mara could take out any of your team that really offers trouble. As shown in the tactics I planned on using down below,
In the end my goals still remain no matter what and due to the fact that Mara Jade will be separated from the group but obviously within a moment's notice can give my team the advantage it needs in case your team somehow traps mine in the box, she can defeat them through tp, tk, and skills that she has learned from the empire and the wars she's been in. All in all my team should come up on top and be able to put your team down in a decent fight. Good plan just imo not good enough @higorm. Now your move.
"According to the rules we both have 2 weeks to train together. You said he was a villain and that might get in the way considering I've mixed with other two heroes, but that's not entirely true, since he was able to work in a team like the Thunderbolts. Not to mention here they share the same objective and they all pack the same power source."
^ This is true, as I said this is only a minor part that could play out a larger role. With blackout I could see time being wasted here for some of the reasons; like him being felt that he was being used, or if a fight broke out using a black box for a time to hold them both in. Now I know you said they are work with similar or even the same magics, but is it possible they could remove the black box? If so could you provide some evidence I'm only curious as if they could do this. I think personalities do tend to clash sometimes and blackout IIRC isn't all there sometimes, but I could be wrong. I was only making a minor point on this in believe that some personalities wouldn't necessary work after all this is in character. Nevertheless prolly shouldn't be focused on after your counter because I could of saw it as a possibility to cripple your team. Also thunderbolts arent exactly the same heroes like the avengers XD.
"The main goal here is to create the darkbox. What is in character for a guy like him? Use his powers to manipulate Darkforce and create darkforce matter. That's all he does and all he can do. So there's no 50/50 in this case. Also, his job is not to find your team, that's up to Shroud. Like I said, his first move will be the darkbox, but remember all my 3 members will act at the same time, one move does not depend on the other. As Blackout creates the box, Shroud releases his darkforce atmoshere inside it. At the same time you have Darkstar striking your team at supersonic speeds. As for TP, I'll adress it next."
^ Fair enough, Shroud might be caught though due to toph or Mara jade sensing/knowing where he is at. One of my points was that Mara Jade doesn't stick next to the team and will work off the side lines her flanking abilities could put an end to what you guys plan on doing and be able to match either of your heroes in speed and in reaction speed. After all the two are different, and I feel Mara Jade has this edge. Reasons are shown down below,
She is able to deflect and stop bursts of lighting coming at her, more than once and even advanced onto him (C'baoth)
C'baoth swung around to face her, his face contorted with rage. "No!" he screamed; and again the blue-white lightning crackled from his fingertips. Mara caught the burst on her lightsaber, her mad rush faltering as coronal fire burned all around her. C'baoth fired again and again, backing toward the throne and the solid wall behind it. Doggedly, Mara kept coming.
Source: The Last Command (Credit goes to Shootingnova)
Another example of her reflexes, her once more dodging lightning very up close and countering with her own personal combat as well. This could be helpful as she could basically counter and attack almost at the same time.
Mara did not have the half a second it would take to raise her arms again, so she simply threw herself backward, pulling her throat off the talons and bringing her legs up to either side of Alema’s. A bolt of blue lightning crackled past above her face so close she saw it even through closed eyes. Mara was already scissoring her feet, catching the Twi’lek below the knees with one leg and above the knees with the other.
Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest (Credit goes to Shootingnova)
Now, I understand I haven't brought Ivy up nor toph up in this matter. I can bring toph up for the part where she could possibly catch The Shroud out of hand, but then again I'm not sure if he'd start out flying or walking he obviously does both, but still unsure. However, assuming hes going to be walking/running in search of my team ( not knowing whom but just searching out ) he could be put in front by a sudden burst from the ground landing in front of both Toph and Ivy who may or might not be close.
Toph has also applied this more than once as well, could use a earth fist to grab him, and could even clock his legs up too as you can see down below.
So these could be various ways of ending the shroud as well along with like i said being trapped and Ivy mind controlling him with love dust and is different than TP for some obvious reasons.
"1. Creating a smoke screen will only benefit my team since Shroud can detect anyone under these circumstances, especially inside the darkbox, this means you'd be only wasting time and giving the opportunity my team needs to effectively strike your team while off guard. Remember that Shroud possesses a mystical sense of perception enabling him to "see" even through his own mantle of darkness. This mystical sense gives him psychic impressions of his environment within a radius of about 100 feet of him. Unlike Daredevil, the Shroud can receive non-visual sensory impressions through solid objects. Thus, he can perceive people and objects in the room next to him with the ease that he can perceive the contents of the room he is in."
^ Time to break this down yo!
"1. Creating a smoke screen will only benefit my team since Shroud can detect anyone under these circumstances,"
^ Can this be proven? As I said jedi sense and toph's own personal sense are different than other powers found in the Marvel Universe, on top of that can it stop pre cog and how does it effect Pre cog? Because Mara Jade has this, and could use to her advantage once more if she is some how caught out of course.
Toph can feel and use the very movement of him and be able to see what he will be doing as shown down below.
I mean heck she can see the unseen as well,
If toph also needs to be defensive she can create this as well. ( the pillar is what I'm talking about )
She also does have impressive reflexes I'd say better then Shroud at least and could take him solo.
Ivy, poor girl once more is left hanging, but could create various things to try and prevent herself from being attacked so hard by Shroud as well.
On top of that she can create plants IIRC in the desert like shown down below,
and upon creating plants like so, in the middle of no where can bring some results as well. We've seen what she can do to people including even pinning down clayface and trapping batman in position as well. Examples will be posted down below.
Holding other people in a tight grip
Defeating clayface and holding batman down without any difficulty
The fog will most likely not be a problem though for Toph will be with her for most of the time, and both can take a punch as well.
If toph also needs to be defensive she can create this as well.
or simply block him like this.
Within the Shade this shouldn't necessary be a problem and knowing that your team doesn't know how many are on mine will make it difficult for them to detect Mara jade as well if these two get captured to where she could free them as well.
"especially inside the darkbox, this means you'd be only wasting time and giving the opportunity my team needs to effectively strike your team while off guard."
^ How can my people be off guard when they know where your at? Blitzing is one thing, but blitzing without knowing is another. Unless you can prove that they suddenly blitz in somewhere without knowledge of where my team is at? Heck they prolly will only know that they are facing a team and thats about it. Mine on the other hand as I've pointed out knows where yours are at. You could argue that I'd engage you possibly first and that we might underestimate you, but that'd be something different to argue for rather than doing a blitz kind of thing.
"Remember that Shroud possesses a mystical sense of perception enabling him to "see" even through his own mantle of darkness."
^ I sure hope so that'd be a terrible power if you can't see within your own "mantle of darkness" that you create lol.
"Unlike Daredevil, the Shroud can receive non-visual sensory impressions through solid objects. Thus, he can perceive people and objects in the room next to him with the ease that he can perceive the contents of the room he is in."
^ So similar to toph and Mara jade got it.
"2. Ivy's love dust would hardly work as yourself admited the vague possibility of success. It's more likely for her to be KO'ed at the very beginning of the battle. Unless you can prove me she can see in total darkness and have darkforce resistance feats to show."
^ I said she wouldnt be able to prolly use it as I wanted it to be, which was fill the whole are full of love dust. She can pin one of your teammates and then apply it which she has no problem doing, if she can catch them and I'm not saying "if" as she couldnt do it or its unlikely, but "if" as in she can do this and it could happen it'd be a 50 50 chance imo especially on shroud and heck even blackout.
As I've told you Toph is blind she doesn't see at all, she can't see, but she can feel, so unless you can provide evidence that your team flies all the time every time during most of their fight scenes toph's going to know where he's at and this wouldn't be the first time she has fought someone with good agility, and likewise for Mara Jade. Once more poor Ivy is left hanging, but she can just simply blow dust XD
"Now let's talk about your TP move. First take a look at the rules again:
Telepathy like attacks are allowed, limited at Classic Marvel Girl level. Look it up."
Okay, and?
"IIRC, Jean Grey was very limited TP-wise, back in the day she was Marvel Girl. Classic version at first had only TK, then she was thought by Professor Xavier and started using some telepathy, but nothing extraordinary. She also needed concentration in order to accomplish some feats. I'm not sure if this is the best idea for you here."
^ which is fine, my point is you have shown almost no TP resistance at all, so hacking someone's mind necessary doesn't take a lot of effort to do so if they have no resistance, on top of this they will once more not know where she was at nor have the ability to stop her due to having no sense as to where she could be. However, if TP fails as I've said Speed and the Force are my friend to which I've shown she has impressive reflexes to match your team.
"In top of that, you don't have a true psionic character in your team. A Jedi uses mind tricks, as described on your own scans, empathy and hypnosis. You cannot read minds or anything like that, I'm not even sure Mara Jade is good at mind tricks, since it was a generic discription about that ability,"
^ Well it was generic, which means at very base level they are able to do, but lets say we have some serious doubts, well heres some TP feats for her.
Knows how to block her mind from giving information even from Darth Vader,
But there was a mental pattern the Emperor had taught her long ago, a pattern for those times when he'd wanted his instructions hidden even from Vader.
Source: The Last Command (Credit goes to Shootingnova)
Can match luke skywalker in the danger sense. This is similar to spider man sense, but imo is better depending on the jedi and someone like Luke it's way better.
But it wasn’t here, and there was nothing she could do about it. Rubbing her palms briefly on her jumpsuit to dry them, she got a firm grip on the controls and stretched out to the Force. She might not be as glorious and powerful a Jedi as the great Luke Skywalker, but she’d be willing to match her finely honed danger sense against his any day.
Source: Hand of Thrawn: Specter of the Past(Credit goes to Shootingnova)
Can sense what is in the next room or what could be in the next room, in which allows her to basically counter shroud as well.
Mara reached out, searching for her attacker. She felt only the horror and anguish that permeated the entire room.
Source: Dark Nest I: The Joiner King (Credit goes to Shootingnova)
So she does have some abilities, now whether their mind attacking or not they are still impressive, for people who have so far zero TP resistance it's kinda foolish to think that a good jedi like Mara Jade couldn't hand their minds especially Blackout's. However, if you could provide some evidence of TP resistance I'd gladly drop this out of the debate, but as for now it's a silly move to drop for you don't got it.
"There's also the impossibility of using it from distance. As far as I'm concerned, in order to the mind trick work, a Jedi must be close to it's target and we start at opposing ends, so it's not going to work. Another great opportunity for my team to strike yours while they waste time."
^this could be considered true for some jedi, but lets assume for a second then that it is. You have shroud scouting ahead right? lurking so on, yet he walks into PV or Mara Jade and all she has to do is wave her hand and he could be altered due to the fact you have so far no TP resistance. With that said he could be under her command or simply put still so he could be cut in half. PV could technically do the same thing and thus putting an end to him. However, for mara jade at least this is not the case, as you can find mind tricks being used from space to another ship in space. Example of this could be found in Star Wars: Republic 5: Prelude to Rebellion, Part 5 Where over a large distance a jedi master preformed this act, so that he could land on the planet with his ship unharmed. Nevertheless they won't even necessary know she's there either as mind tricks have known to work with more powerful like Mara jade a lot faster than you would think. Overall my point is though you dont got really any TP resistance Mara jade at the least even while hurt can react at lightning speed, she could cast it if she wanted to from a safe enough distance.
"He's a human with the ability to hurt superhumans, like he was able to do with Wonder Man. "
^ In the end hes still human, with human durability that is a problem for my team. One weapon can cut him in half, the others can hurt him extremely bad to where well he dies just like the other one. However I will not admit they could do a ton of damage yet to Darkstar, but thats because I haven't seen much of her and honestly wont make a fair judgement until i see some examples of her durability. '
"He also manage to blanket a small auditorium in darkness within a several seconds, this map isn't exactly large so you get the picture."
^ This is once more a valid point, to people like Poison Ivy, problem is as I've pointed out before he doesn't necessary begin this as an opener and if he does it's quite rare, however assuming he does and we've hit this point already I have two people that can still see in the dark, that have the ability to sense him and of course approach from there. You can blacken the area all you want, but this wont stop Toph from seeing him and Mara Jade from sensing, smelling, and hearing him move.
" All those points you presented are reduced to dust since inside the darkbox all those feats does not apply."
^ Once more I will state my team is divided to a certain extent, Mara jade can kill either of your people, and due to her training under the emperor under going countless and dangerous missions to kill people she shouldn't have a problem killing the person causing the dark box. In turn may kill another person before this happens with force speed and TK, which I already brought up before.
"Not to mention his intention will not be to engage in a close combat."
^ Fair enough reason, however black out isn't super far away and when he does cast it he is close enough for Toph to attack him along with the others, because she has attacked multiple targets at once, used her surroundings to her advantage, and has a decent tactical mind. Poison Ivy has also taken on her fair share of people and could even grow plants to hold them down even for a few seconds and possibly seduce one or heck maybe just kill as well as she has no morals on killing anyone at all. Mara Jade has the skills and the abilities to also take out any member on your team with just the simple TK or TP force abilities. If I feel this isnt enough ill bring in some more ^^
Anyway all fair reasons, I'm just seeing my team still come on top due to how we plan to run this show. Your move,
> Teamwork
There's no real reason to assume they would fight each other. It would only be an issue without the 2 weeks to train together. The thunderbolts are not made of classic heroes like the Avengers of course but that's the original idea of the team. You have a bunch of former villains working together in benefit of a greater cause than themselves.
> Shroud:
Highly unlikely. If this was a different scenario, then maybe, but inside the darkbox? He's already hard to deal with, now imagine inside a darkforce construct box, filled with a dark atmosphere, where he can sense the enemy from distance. This is a situation that neither of your team members has faced before. You can't expect they will perform with success just like they do in normal situations. Your speed/reaction speed are drastically reduced inside of it. If a powerhouse like Wonder Man couldn't help being struck down by Shroud, why should MAra or Toph fare any better?
If still there's any doubt about his prowess, here's a video to help change your mind:
> Senses:
Can this be proven? As I said jedi sense and toph's own personal sense are different than other powers found in the Marvel Universe, on top of that can it stop pre cog and how does it effect Pre cog? Because Mara Jade has this, and could use to her advantage once more if she is some how caught out of course.
Considering the remote possibility of Mara and Toph sensing my team members, all 3 of them, inside the "darkforced" box, which again, is highly unlikely, not only because the reasons I've just stated but also because both Blackout and Darkstar can make use of teleports, not to mention that Darkstar and Shroud can fly, which cancels any possibility of Toph sensing either of them, since she's not touching the ground. So, basically, Toph can't sense any of my team members who can fly and/or teleport, which leaves only Mara Jade in charge of the sensing part, and once again I doubt she could manage to accomplish anything since as far as I'm concerned a Jedi can't sense through dimensions, especially a darkforce dimension.
> Blitzing and blasting:
As already explained above, your team won't sense my team. Darkstar will know the position of your team through Shroud. Also, she manipulates the darkforce better than anyone else, she can handle your team alone if necessary. One construct is enough to imprison them and that's it. Take into consideration that project the Darkforce into simple mentally controlled forms such as pincers, rings, columns, spheres, and so on. She could form objects with a maximum density of 175 pounds per cubic inch, and resistance to concussive forces of up to 320 pounds per square inch (500 pounds of TNT at 20 feet). She can form objects with a maximum volume of approximately 750 cubic feet, sufficient to encompass ten human beings comfortably. These objects are solid and well defined while she consciously wills them to be. Darkstar can also project a beam of solid force, capable of impacting an object with sufficient power to rupture 3-inch solid hard carbon steel or tip over an average, loaded railroad boxcar (15 tons).
Can your team resist a tank busting darkforce blast?
As for blitzing, Darkstar can utilize the attractive force of the Darkforce dimension to fly. By generating a invisible, intangible portal into the dimension in the contour of her body, she balanced its attractive force upon her against that of Earth’s gravity without passing through the portal.
> Flight:
I've already proved that Shroud can fly, Next scans shows Darkstar flying, not that it's needed but since you asked..
Here's Blackout using his darkforce constructs to not only fly but also imprison his enemies while flying:
This means Toph is useless in this scenario and should be overthrow at the beginning of the fight.
> TP:
I don't know why you keep bringing this but Shroud possess a radar sense so he will know exactly where your team is, especially inside the darkbox. Now, Jedi mind tricks are not equal to a psionic strike. You seem to be stretching it a little bit. She won't have time to perform any of those, considering my team is much faster and will strike her down very quickly since they can all fly and/or teleport. She can't sense a teleport coming from another dimension so her sense do not worth anything here.
In short, your team has no effective way to find my team, who can all fly or teleport, inside a darkbox filled with a darkforce atmosphere, being striked by multiple directions with darkforce blasts strong enough to bust a tank.
"There's no real reason to assume they would fight each other. It would only be an issue without the 2 weeks to train together. The thunderbolts are not made of classic heroes like the Avengers of course but that's the original idea of the team. You have a bunch of former villains working together in benefit of a greater cause than themselves."
^ True, but your people aren't just villains nor heroes alike. However, my point was Blackout was unstable and very unpredictable even for two weeks he could have anything happen to him that could cause the battle to swing in my favor by far. Another point that I do believe was not quite understood was lets say you have 2 weeks marked at 2/5/2015 however, due to beginning struggles and clashes of personalities you wouldn't be able to train until 2/10/15 instead and so on. As I said only a minor point I was trying to make, yet I do believe you've provided enough to show that this couldn't necessary happen, but for the sake of the argument it will Har har! >:)
"Highly unlikely. If this was a different scenario, then maybe, but inside the darkbox?"
^ Enlighten me on how this darkbox works, because from what I've actually seen he has to be pretty close and pretty fast to know how to cast this. I've rarely seen it being used on large scales. You it is his go to move, however I find it hard that he will instantly begin this, especially with two other people preferring their powers over yours. Also mite i add it's "All characters are in character." This only furthers my point as heroes like yours aren't necessary going for the kill while mine will, and poison ivy seriously has no morals towards men especially those after her. Proof of this can be found in all of her comics, but I'll provide some down below as well.
Poison Ivy killing trickster and others for well obvious reasons down below.
Another kill
So it'd pretty safe to say she really has no morals towards men alike, and of course as I've said there's more. With that said, I think her powers could still work in the darkbox due to her powers being not that of energy per say and the same could be said for the others as well as they apply to different methods nevertheless. I'm not claiming the darkbox wont be useful, just not as effective you might believe for it to happen I do believe he has to see his foes, and as I said he has to focus on it as well. Anything short of a force push should break this and set lose my friends inside.
"He's already hard to deal with, now imagine inside a darkforce construct box, filled with a dark atmosphere, where he can sense the enemy from distance."
^ I can imagine this, but imagine the second this battle begins two of my people can sense yours easily. On top of that as I said hes gotta fill the area up and he's not necessary the best at hand to hand, heck I bet even without the smoke Ivy could give him the beat down like she did to Catwoman and Harley Quinn.
Addition as I said we got toph, and Mara Jade Skywalker who can apply their abilities to the battle field as well, examples down below for Toph can demonstrate she could indeed handle the shroud and anyone close in with the exception of prolly Dark Star.
Example of her defeating 4 agents of the Earth Empire with ease, who are very good earth benders.
Sends a long range attack when being attacked from long range
Can bend metal to do something like these down below,
As shown she can also do a trap as well with the earth, which she has done for other foes alike. I think both blackout and shroud are boned by her alone.
Furthermore she has shown great accuracy with her earth bending, and has sent foes bigger than shroud across the lands, and uses the environment for her advantage.
Accuracy
Using the environment to her advantage
Metal suit to withstand heavy fire, you know the heavy fire that is right next to the gif
and then after her using metal bending in her attacks Ik its hard to see, but you can see it down below,
and again to change the simplest of things; can't find the gif but look it up toph vs earth benders on youtube and you will see what I'm talking about.
Once more using the Environment to her advantage
On top of that she has some amazing reflexes as well, that puts her on top of these two people ( blackout and shroud )
"This is a situation that neither of your team members has faced before. You can't expect they will perform with success just like they do in normal situations."
^ toph is blind, you can make it dark all you want, but it wont change the fact. Mara even caught into it has faced the dark side which can be considered a cloud of darkness hovering all over jedi's sight.
"Your speed/reaction speed are drastically reduced inside of it. If a powerhouse like Wonder Man couldn't help being struck down by Shroud, why should MAra or Toph fare any better?"
^ Because it isn't his first move, as I've shown and he's been tagged by slower people like DD. That's why ^^
"If still there's any doubt about his prowess, here's a video to help change your mind:"
^ Excellent video, problem is he was prepared for Dr. Doom he has fought him and understood his back history enough to know what to expect. All of mine have different powers, one of which is honestly unique in the marvel universe as it is something he's never came across before. On top of that lets say he does this, this little chance he does do this, whats stopping Mara from doing this?
Applying force push over and force crush, not saying Mara did it to Jacen this time, but she should be able to apply it to anyone on this field with again the possibility of Darkstar
Jacen was on the knife-edge between dying and killing. They grappled, Force-pushed, Force-crushed: he threw her back again, trying to Force-jolt her spine and paralyze her for a moment, but somehow she deflected it and bricks flew out of the wall as if someone had punched them through from the other side. She almost Force-snatched the lightsaber from his hand, but even with his injuries he hung on to it. He wouldn't die. He couldn't, not now.
Source: Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice(Credit goes to Shootingnova)
Also force stun, could be applied to possibly all heroes, once more especially Shroud and Blackout.
Or could even possibly use lightning to stop them as well, as she has shown down below using it.
Rather than taking half a second to ignite her lightsaber and another half a second to block, Mara pointed and released the Force energy she had been using to keep herself going. Her body erupted into pain and muscle tremors, but blue lightning shot from her fingertips and blasted the rifle, driving the stock back into the Twi'lek's mangled shoulder and crackling deep into the wound. Alema cried out and let the weapon slip from her hands, then went limp and floated away into darkness.
Source: Dark Nest I: The Joiner King(Credit goes to Shootingnova)
She has other force powers, and could be noted for using them enough that she could cause havoc on the field. Anyway these are points that could end people on your team. Along with her deadly lightsaber of course.
"Considering the remote possibility of Mara and Toph sensing my team members, all 3 of them, inside the "darkforced" box, which again, is highly unlikely, not only because the reasons I've just stated but also because both Blackout and Darkstar can make use of teleports,"
^ To which you've stated yourself Darkstar gets really tired and almost useless when she does teleport them. Blackout last i checked couldnt Teleport at all.
"not to mention that Darkstar and Shroud can fly, which cancels any possibility of Toph sensing either of them, since she's not touching the ground."
^ Fair enough point, as I said Mara jade can let them now whats going on, and as stated Poison ivy could tag Shroud at least, and he's not known for rushing in with his blitz and once more not blitzing where he doesn't know where my team is located at, and is standing there for some odd reason.
" So, basically, Toph can't sense any of my team members who can fly and/or teleport, which leaves only Mara Jade in charge of the sensing part, and once again I doubt she could manage to accomplish anything since as far as I'm concerned a Jedi can't sense through dimensions, especially a darkforce dimension."
^ Don't have to sense through dimensions they have to come out one way or another, which can give my team time as she can prepare defensive measures for what is going on.
"As already explained above, your team won't sense my team. Darkstar will know the position of your team through Shroud."
^ Not quite, Mara can sense them, toph wont, but she can and she can sense all of your team and let my team know through Tp where they are at.
" Also, she manipulates the darkforce better than anyone else, she can handle your team alone if necessary. "
^ Possibly, but she has to have at the very least lightning fast strikes to even be in Mara's league, and so I'd require some proof of this?
"Take into consideration that project the Darkforce into simple mentally controlled forms such as pincers, rings, columns, spheres, and so on. She could form objects with a maximum density of 175 pounds per cubic inch, and resistance to concussive forces of up to 320 pounds per square inch (500 pounds of TNT at 20 feet). She can form objects with a maximum volume of approximately 750 cubic feet, sufficient to encompass ten human beings comfortably. These objects are solid and well defined while she consciously wills them to be. Darkstar can also project a beam of solid force, capable of impacting an object with sufficient power to rupture 3-inch solid hard carbon steel or tip over an average, loaded railroad boxcar (15 tons)."
^ This might be a problem, for two of my members, but Mara should be able to tank it as shown down below as she not only struggles against a famous vong, but on top of that is even handicapped in the fight as well,
The warrior came on, staff sweeping down, and Mara ducked at the last moment, came up tall, and sent her lightsaber up high with a rolling motion that kept the staff out wide.
Yomin Carr dropped to one knee and brought his staff horizontally above him, hands out wide, to intercept.
Mara fully expected that her powerful lightsaber would shear through the staff and end the fight abruptly, but amazingly, the tattooed warrior's weapon caught the lightsaber, accepting the brunt of the hit without apparent damage, and Yomin Carr twisted his hands to the side as he came up fast, throwing Mara's blade off aim.
She should have stepped back to regroup, but the jelly, the many tiny jellies, still held one of her feet firmly, and she could only twist back so far, and not far enough for her to bring her lightsaber in to parry.
Yomin Carr stabbed with the snake-head end of his weapon, and to Mara's horror, that head opened wide its maw, fangs dripping venom. She slapped her hand inside the angle of the blow, against the shaft just below the head, and was quick enough to retract it as the snake head turned in to bite at it.
The lightsaber's glowing blade swooped in an up-turning circular parry between the two, forcing Yomin Carr back, and with that moment of pause, Mara slashed it down beside her foot again, cutting in half the last piece of jelly large enough to hold her. Then she leapt back, though not far - it was as if she had wads of gum stuck to the bottoms of her feet.
"You are worthy," Yomin Carr congratulated, and started to nod and used the ruse to swing about quickly, his staff elongating and becoming supple suddenly, more a whip than a bludgeoning weapon.
Mara tried to leap back, but the jelly, still grabbing at her, slowed her down. She pivoted to the side, bringing her weapon out to intercept.
The whip snapped around the lightsaber, a strike so perfectly aimed that the head still came in across the woman's arm, fangs cutting deep scratches.
Yomin Carr howled in victory, but Mara took the burning hit, focused her energies suddenly on that part of her body, and forced a blood rush out of the wound, washing away the poison before it could begin to take hold. She accepted then that this opponent possessed weapons that she could not anticipate, and so she went on the offensive immediately, charging ahead and launching a series of thrusts and slices that had Yomin Carr backing, and all the while, he tried to retract his weapon to staff form, to give him something with which to parry.
But his retreat was short-lived. He flicked one hand in a reverse movement, sending the remaining length of whip, ending in that wicked snake head, back out at her.
She dropped her left knee down and back, pivoting away from the warrior, and brought her lightsaber in a rolling motion down and then stabbing back over her dipping left shoulder, a perfect angle to intercept the rushing snake head, the tip of her blade diving into its opening mouth. She came up in a rush, arm pumping and slashing, tearing the snake head apart, and then she bore on, right up to the large warrior.
His backhand got inside her movement, though, the other, hard end of his weapon smacking her across the shoulder and knocking her to the side. She rolled with it, accepting the blow, and spun down low, swiping across at his knees.
He leapt above the cut, and then again as Mara came across with a backhand, and then brought his weapon, now fully a staff again, down at her seemingly exposed head. Mara turned and brought her elbows flying up, her lightsaber coming across horizontally to intercept and hold the weapon at bay.
Yomin Carr did not relent, pushing down with all his strength - frightening strength to Mara for, indeed, she, even with all of her inner power and determination, could not hold him up. She reached into the Force then, trying another tactic on the man, and then she nearly buckled, for there was ... nothing.
That was the only way she could describe it. Nothing. It was as if the Force was not a part of this warrior, as if he refused to acknowledge its existence in such a profound manner that it did not exist for him.
Mara had to rely strictly on her fighting skills, pitting her speed and precision against this opponent's brute force. With a sudden, desperate twist, rolling her left hand over her right, she snapped the descending staff harmlessly down to the side and in front of her, and then she started up, thinking to come in at the warrior up high.
But she had jelly on one knee, goo that halted her progress abruptly and nearly sent her sprawling to the floor. That proved fortunate for Mara, though, for Yomin Carr reacted more quickly than she believed possible, straightening and slashing his staff across viciously, a blow that would have taken her across the head or neck if she had continued upward.
Quick to improvise, she stabbed the warrior, who was as surprised as she by the fact that she was still down low, in the knee. Then, as he howled in pain, she slashed her lightsaber across, taking him out at the knees and dropping him hard on his back. He started to roll toward her, bringing his staff across for her head, but she had the tip of her weapon out in time, pointed at his breast, and his own momentum drove him into it, the lightsaber finding a crease in that magnificent plated armor where the blaster had not, puncturing the coat and Yomin Carr's chest, poking into his heart.
He froze in place, staring hard at Mara. "You are worthy," he said once more, and then he just stared at her, and it seemed again as if he somehow knew her. "Jedi," he whispered.
That flicker of recognition went away, all light in Yomin Carr's eyes faded, and he lay very still.
Source: The New Jedi Order: Vector Prime(Credit goes to Shootingnova)
Has even lived through a disease that killed 100 people and more and she was able to keep herself alive
That hit home to Luke, a reminder, as everything seemed to be a reminder, that his beloved wife was not well. The best doctors in the galaxy were shaking their heads helplessly, able to do nothing but watch as something inside Mara continually altered her molecular structure. No medicine, no therapy, had come close to treating the rare disease, and only her own internal strength, her use of the Force, was somewhat keeping it in check. Those others who had contracted the disease had not been so fortunate.
Source: The New Jedi Order: Vector Prime(Credit goes to Shootingnova)
What made it even more remarkable was that neither of them was in full, good health. Mara had been battling a disease that sapped her strength and defied Luke's best efforts to help her. He knew things could have been worse: of a hundred people diagnosed with the ailment, only she had survived. Her strength in the Force has sustained her, and in combat she lets the Force race through her.
Source: The New Jedi Order: Dark Tide II: Ruin(Credit goes to Shootingnova)
On top of this she can create a defensive bubble to withstand her strikes as she has shown down below,
A pair of blue bolts flashed up from Welk's direction and streaked into the smashed body. Mara had just enough time to push out with the Force and create a small bubble of protection before the assassin bug exploded.
In the orange light, floating just beyond arm's reach, she glimpsed a pale oval with little to suggest a face, only a few dark areas where there might have been a mouth and nose and eyes. Mara swung her hand toward it, but the blast light faded and the apparition was gone.
Source: Dark Nest I: The Joiner King(Credit goes to Shootingnova)
"Can your team resist a tank busting darkforce blast?"
^ to answer your question, Ivy and Toph prolly couldn't Mara prolly could. Question what makes you think she will open with this?
I've already proved that Shroud can fly, Next scans shows Darkstar flying, not that it's needed but since you asked..
Here's Blackout using his darkforce constructs to not only fly but also imprison his enemies while flying:
This means Toph is useless in this scenario and should be overthrow at the beginning of the fight.
Valid points, but none of my people are necessary useless, as Toph has striken flying things before, although she had help she was still able to do it, Poison Ivy can also launch plants to simply grab them, and as much as they want to fly I doubt they could sense Mara whom would slay two of your people before they could think, and of course as I said Toph's shown some impressive targeting like down below
Targeting a rock mid air with ease,
There has been other things as well that she could of done too like stop flying bugs, but I'm having a hard time finding that, anyway, Lets not forget also that Ivy loves it when your people get in close as well, as they can become her peasants like down below,
Supes is her slave,
Cab Driver is her slave,
Star Security is her slaves, lol.
"I don't know why you keep bringing this but Shroud possess a radar sense so he will know exactly where your team is, especially inside the darkbox. Now, Jedi mind tricks are not equal to a psionic strike. You seem to be stretching it a little bit. She won't have time to perform any of those, considering my team is much faster and will strike her down very quickly since they can all fly and/or teleport. She can't sense a teleport coming from another dimension so her sense do not worth anything here."
^ In short, you've said it yourself he has a small sense of where they are at while mine sense is greater. My people have shown to act then, and not later. Your people have little to no TP immunity, and no resistance to the force as far as I can tell. Your people lack the reflexes to a certain extent and my people have various other ways to over come your spells and attacks. That is why I keep bringing it up, your people chat while doing stuff and honestly one isnt all there no matter how much you wish to claim two weeks will matter, but it wont. Finally my conclusion is that I'll stand by most of my beginning arguments as I do believe I've shown ways to counter your team and still have the options to do so,
Anyway, great debating with you and wish you the best of luck I will await your final words and such, sorry it took so long honestly the blue box bs stopped me from posting for a couple of days which is why I sent this so late
Your last and final move :D @higorm
Now
XD jk.
(earth ore stored inside metal)
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