Minato Namikaze (Shinobi War) vs Goku (Saiyan Saga)

EDIT: Due to proof being brought that Goku can logically be FTL in this form, both rounds are now with speed equalized. This does not include IT or FTG.

Conditions Round 1

Kaio Ken: OFF

Morals and Character: ON

Setting: Goku vs Vegeta Wasteland Battleground

Goku has instant transmission

Distance: 100 meters

Win by KO/incapacitation.

Conditions Round 2

Kaio Ken: Usable

Bloodlust: On (Special Condition: No destroying the planet or Battleground on a large scale)

Setting: Hidden Leaf Village (Deserted)

Distance: Appear at opposite ends of the village.

Win by death or complete incapacitation

Conditions both rounds

Minato has limitless "Special Kunai" as well as various ninja tools (Chakra recovery pills, Smoke Bombs, Paper Bombs, Shuriken, etc.)

Neither character has prior knowledge of anything of the other character

Chakra = Ki, Ki = Chakra

Minato has all feats shown in the manga, including his edo ones, while accounting for unlimited chakra as he's NON-Edo in this fight.

Who wins? Will instant transmission be enough for Goku to keep up without Kaio-Ken? Will Minato be able to strategize around Kaio Ken in round 2? Note: Bloodlust does not mean mindless destruction, but that both characters are NOT holding back at all and will use whatever means necessary to kill or disable their opponent.

Minato gets stomped both rounds

Goku is too fast

Goku's durability gets him the win. Knives won't do any damage, as he tanked bullets no problem when he was a child. Paper bombs are ostensibly less powerful than ki blasts, and smoke bombs are pointless when Goku can sense energy. Minato might have the edge with Kyuubi mode, but Goku can amp up his power with Kaio Ken to match it.

Honestly, Minato doesn't stand much of a chance. His best bet in most cases would be either summoning Gamabunta--who Goku could easily take care of with a ki blast--or using the Reaper Death Seal, which Goku could just use Kiai or Instant Transmission to get out of.

@mrunsmiley: Didn't Vegeta's tail get cut by Yajirobe? Bullets don't do much but swords/knives seem to be effective with enough force behind them. And Shinobi are superhuman

The difference is that a Saiyan's tail is explicitly stated to be their weak point, and Vegeta's tail was only cut because he wasn't paying attention. Look at it this way:

Vegeta's power level as a Great Ape was 180,000, yet Yajirobe, with a power level of 970, managed to cut his tail.

Alternatively, Super Saiyan Trunks' power level is around 150,000,000, about the same as Goku's. Yet despite their power levels being so similar, Goku managed to block all of Trunks' attacks with his finger.

@midnightdragon18: Saiyan saga Goku is too fast for Kyubi Enhanced Minato?...I have a hard time believing that.

@saint_of_origin: whats minato's speed feat and I'll top it

@mrunsmiley: Power levels are unreliable. Even if they weren't, KCM Minato is probably around the same as Goku. And IIRC a Saiyan can train his tail to not be a weak point. Which I'm sure all Saiyan warriors did, which includes Vegeta. Durability doesn't drop that much because you're not paying attention.I don't think Goku is getting killed by a shuriken to the face but I also don't think they're going to bounce off him like he's made of steel.

@midnightdragon18: Instantaneous with FTG. Quick enough to react to Raikage full lightning armor. And at least millisecond when offensively attacking Obito if not more. These are all also without KCM amp. Which has been shown to increase speed drastically

@saint_of_origin: goku has reacted to ftl ki blast

I don't think Minato can top that

Power levels are unreliable only past the Freeza saga. Not only that, but that's only a guess at KCM Minato's strength, which Goku can STILL surpass through Kaio-Ken. Unless it's explicitly stated that KCM multiplies Minato's power multiple times, he's still not standing a chance.

Petty comments on your part aside, if you had paid attention, you'd know that the weakness Vegeta and Nappa spoke of was having their tails grabbed, not cut off. That's common sense, really: how can you train a body limb against amputation?

The fact of the matter is that none of Minato's kill methods work here, while all of Goku's kill methods do. Not only that, but Goku is far more durable, far faster, and has much more raw power than Minato. If he wanted to, he could glass the whole area, and Minato wouldn't be able to do a thing about it.

@midnightdragon18: Ki blast speeds are not inherently OR consistently FTL. Show proof of Goku dodging a ki blast stated to be FTL

@saint_of_origin: on mobile right now,but look up piccolo destroys the moon.

If we're playing that game then show me where person in naruto was stated to be hypersonic

@mrunsmiley: Then when was it ever stated that the tail is MORE vulnerable to amputation than other body parts? It's only ever mentioned to be a weakness when grabbed, never said to be more fragile. Also, what petty comments? I don't remember saying anything petty. And if you paid attention to the OP, Goku doesn't have Kaio Ken R1. Pay attention to my rules please. No destruction of the battlefield on a large scale.

@midnightdragon18: I know about that feat. Again, just because that blast was FTL doesn't mean all blasts are. Goku has not dodged a proven FTL blast at any point by the Saiyan Saga. I'm on mobile as well but if @Mudamudamuda gets in on this debate I'm sure he has ample proof of Narutoverse speed feats.

Once again, Vegeta was not paying attention. I never said that the tail was more fragile, only that Yajirobe managed to cut it despite the differences in their power because Vegeta wasn't paying attention. If that wasn't the case, Goku never would have been able to deflect Trunks' sword attacks.

You were definitely being petty--I paid attention to the post despite your assuming that. If you'd stop being a prick, people will respect you more.

And if you paid attention to my post, I only said that Goku could use Kaio Ken to answer to Minato's KCM, which doesn't serve as a multiplier. Who's not paying attention now?

@mrunsmiley: Okay...ignoring your posts from now on. Tag me again with personal insults or attitude and you'll be flagged. I don't like debating with hostile opponents. We're done here.

Clearly Yajirobe had something of a special sword, considering it also cut through Vegeta's armor too.

@saint_of_origin: so tell me this

If piccolo's casual blast is ftl then why aren't others? Everyone in dbz has the same power...ki...piccolo's casual ki blast is no different from anyone else's casual ki blast

So what? I proved you wrong and you have no rebuttal. It's on you for making this mismatch in the first place. On top of that, you started the insults in the first place, so you'll be screwing yourself over if you tag anyone.

@saint_of_origin: an axe shattered on goku's head

Knives ain't doing **** to him

No time was ever given for Pic' blact in the actual manga - so assuming it reached the moon at speeds faster than light is pure conjecture.

A more accurate feat would be Makankosappo. But still, Roshi's Kamehameha destroyed the moon at or around the same period of time, and it supposedly would take 1.3 seconds for light to hit the moon. At best, Toriyama's just being inconsistent.

stomps with little to no effort . Goku canceled one of Nappas best attacks by shouting at it ( basically the weakest form of ki attack invisible ki)

Uhh Goku was a Mach 6000 planet leveler in Saiyan Saga...this sure is a fair fight...

Goku speed blitzes

@almighty: Out of character to speed blitz in R1, Minato has markers all over Konoha in R2. Instantaneous FTG prevents speed blitz.

Goku wrecks.

Goku

@mrunsmiley: @mrunsmiley: so we are going to forget that Minato has the Rasengan which can basically one shot.

@mrunsmiley: Don't bother responding to kirkstomp. He thinks that Might Guy could beat Superman and I wish that was only an exaggeration -- it isn't though.

No just no.

Can someone call the mod, I am on my phone and this is a massive mismatch

Why give Goku instant transmission? We know for a fact that they are way way faster than lightning early dragon ball Z.
And everyone is arguing about why Vegetas tail got cut off, it might be as just the sword has special power to it. We have seen and heard of other items and weapons with special powers. Like the pole Goku used at a kid, magic carpet, flying nimbus and the bansho fan. so Magic items isn't a new thing to dragonball.
And Vegeta was pretty tired after using his moon creating teq.

I think Goku at that point of time is just stronger, faster and more durable.
Minato can teleport but teleporting doesn't help if he cant follow up with anything. The fight would end after a while when Goku just blitz him when he comes out of a teleport and punch him unconscious. We know Goku can sense things at the same speed he can fight at.
There is really no way Minato could win this. It would be more fair using pre-lightning training with mr popo. then he might win.

Simple scenario: Goku fires off a Kamehameha, Minato Shunshin's it to right behind goku (the same way he re-directed Bijuu bombs from 9 and 10 tails), and goku takes a full blast kamehameha from himself. With no knowlege of Minato's jutsu, there is no way goku would expect to have to protect his back from his own attack.

Minato fires off a BijuuDama for good measure.

@petjon: Minato KCM is way past lightning speed himself. Especially with FTG. Minato doesn't "come out" of a teleport. It's instant. He instantly transmits himself to any location marked at will. And you CANNOT make assumptions that were never even hinted at. You can't just say his sword was magic because it supports your theory. It wasn't said to be magic, so it's not. That's the rule here on CV.

@saint_of_origin: Goku both rounds handily. mismatch

@jedixman

Got you covered bro.

@jedixman@god_spawn@sc@vance_astro

@super_mod: Lol...mismatch? I'm not overreaching at all with my claims. The best argument you have is that Goku can't be cut. By saying Yajirobe's sword is magic or that not paying attention lowers your durability immensely.

@saint_of_origin: Goku is confirmed FTL fighting speed and with I.T. His travel speed is instant, he is also confirmed moon+++ Buster at this point. Your best argument is claiming inconsistency on feats. Massive mismatch.

@precrisisbardock: Pffft. FTL Saiyan Saga? No. Prove it, then okay. And he's moon+ buster in brute strength. His techniques allow for almost no versatility. Whereas Minato's allow for endless versatility. Shadow cloneso barraging Goku, using Shadow clones to hide real Minato for a surprise attack. Telrporting Goku and his attacks. Shadow clone reaper death seal. Not to mention Kurama's power. Goku won't stomp with all these variables

I don't remember Minato using shadow clone. What chapter was this?

Goku wrecks

@rolandalderas: I think somewhere between chapters 634 and 638.

@saint_of_origin: Goku dodged the solar flare as a kid. Goku can sense minato shadow clones won't work, he will teleport and then what? Goku dodges and smacks him around. You even said no knowledge so Goku sees him as an average joe and one shots

@precrisisbardock: Goku can't tell the difference. Chakra levels in clones match the original. So to Goku's sensing, they're all the same. Goku can't one shot KCM Minato.

@rolandalderas: Chapter 637. The clone attacks Obito while the original maintains the barrier.

Not a mismatch or spite AT ALL. Minato in a MUCH weaker form (15 years earlier) could engage the 9 tails and Tobi in the same night. Take all that skill and add a Kyuubi into the mix and he is a serious powerhouse.

I reiterate:

Minato wins by Goku KOing himself. He has no answer for a surprise attack from his own attack lol

Also, Minato has high-level fuinjutsu. Sealing goku away would constitute an incap, but that's less feasible IMO.

What is Minato supposed to do here? React to someone far faster than he can respond? Cut a guy who no-sold an axe to the skull with a kunai? Somehow defeat him with his <mountain lvl incomplete rasengan, or an island level BB? I don't get it...