#51 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

yea we all know thor is slow but is mimic any faster?

#52 Posted by HellionVulcan (3781 posts) - - Show Bio

yea we all know thor is slow but is mimic any faster?

I don't think he has feats for his combat speed but durability wise i think he may get one shotted as i think they had him lose to Falcon so hes very under written .

#53 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

It doesn't change the fact that in terms of his OWN reactions, Thor couldn't lay a finger on Moongoose who in turn was having trouble tagging Spider-Man in that same fight. Evidently, dodging Mjolnir is much more difficult than hitting Thor because Thor has few legit reaction and combat speed feats to speak of and your point doesn't address Thor's own insufficiency in this regard.

Mongoose had trouble hitting Spiderman - Spiderman still gets gassed because Mongoose is too fast for him despite having precognition telling him to get out of the way. It's sort of like how when Thor gets his hammer webbed by Spiderman and then tosses it into orbit before Spiderman could let go (canon - even if Odin retconned it). Except Thor did lay a finger on Mongoose, by twirling his hammer and then had his hammer chase Mongoose down.

You and me have very different perceptions of being power-less in a situation.

He can still see Moongoose coming and yet again he can't do anything about it to stop Moongoose blitzing him again.

You should read the scans. Thor - who now apparently needs to breath - was hit with Mongooses gas pellets, which according to Mongoose dazes and disorient him to the point he can pummel Thor mercilessly without Thor able to aim. So yeah - Mongoose in order to 'blitz' Thor needed to gas him to the point he couldn't defend himself.

It's like saying Spiderman is slow because he was in the exact same position in the previous showing.

There is a difference in those two feats. One is an unsubstantiated claim from Spider-Man based on hearsay that Sentry stalemated Galactus. The other comes from Thor's teammate who will have trained with him many times off panel and had a chance to see what Thor's powers are like. Plus Eric has the exact same powers as Thor as he beat Gladiator and other high tier foes whilst he was Thor. That along with Thor's other lackluster speed feats supports my case.

And yet only does Spiderman make the claim, so does Nate Grey who comments how they did it together somehow off-panel. They're both second hand accounts of poorly defined events off panel with the only exception Cap doesn't have a someone else supporting the claim and actually was cheering on a depowered Thor that saved his life after being KOed by a stray bullet.

It's the same power-set, not the same power. Thunderstrike openly admits (frequently) to Thor being his superior, even in the scan above in strength and fighting ability. It doesn't help Thor's the one who kills him later on either while Thunderstrike was amped. Thor has better showings and has demolished Gladiator in one of them when he stopped holding back in a single hit to the face with Mjolnir with Gladiator unable to react.

He had the same powers as Thor and had beaten Gladiator with his power. That shows he had Thor's slow reaction speed as well.

Then maybe Spiderman should be blitzing Thor rather than his slower and weaker stand in. That way people can take this argument seriously because you aren't pretending two different characters with an established difference ability are the same character. Because Spiderman could blitz Thor all day without any acknowledgement and when Thor wants him off he would just smack him away just like Hercules did.

The question here is not that Thor can beat Wolverine, of course he can. The point of contention is that Wolverine is FASTER than Thor in combat. I debunked your assertion of that feat in another thread by pointing out Thor had the element of surprise and was using his hammer to fly and KO him. He wasn't trying to tag him without the hammer's assistance here and this conclusively shows Thor doesn't have good combat speed in comparison to other street levellers.

Of course that isn't the question - it's whether or not people will read the comic titled ' Wolverine VS Thor' because the real fight happened in Uncanny Avengers and consisted of Thor easily KOing Wolverine who couldn't dodge him with that superior speed. And by element of Surprise Wolverine was staring him dead in the face as the hammer plummeted into him - quite the surprise since Wolverine has about six feet of distance to dodge.

Well a featless minion giving Thor trouble in speed doesn't say much for his own speed.

Not just trouble. He defeats the Warrior's Three and Thor - while apparently being chalked up to street level. Seriously a falling ship's mast KOed Thor - that means Thor's durability is bad right?

Finally, all he's doing is jumping around and dodging Eric's hits. How is that a good speed feat dodging someone who can't tag Spider-Man or who a peak human super soldier comments on his slow speed and reactions?

I like how your argument is a snake biting it's own tail. Thor is = to Masterson when Masteron gets blitzed by Spiderman, but when Masterson can't even hit Thor one on one as Thor easily reacts / runs circles around him - "why's that impressive Masterson can't even hit Spiderman and someone was called slow by Captain America!!!" - and I could just easily post a scan of Cap praising a depowered Thor who had just saved his life as they leap roof-tops fighting gun-men / mobs of people together - at one point even breaking Thor's ribs because Cap is forgetful.

#54 Posted by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

Mongoose had trouble hitting Spiderman - Spiderman still gets gassed because Mongoose is too fast for him despite having precognition telling him to get out of the way. It's sort of like how when Thor gets his hammer webbed by Spiderman and then tosses it into orbit before Spiderman could let go (canon - even if Odin retconned it). Except Thor did lay a finger on Mongoose, by twirling his hammer and then had his hammer chase Mongoose down.

You and me have very different perceptions of being power-less in a situation.

Yeah I've heard of that feat. But Thor physically barely touched Mongoose in that fight for all you sugarcoat it. Spinning his hammer round is more perogative of the hammer and not of Thor's ability to touch Mongoose on his own physical stats. If Thor didn't have Mjolnir with him, he would have had an even harder time tagging the guy.

You should read the scans. Thor - who now apparently needs to breath - was hit with Mongooses gas pellets, which according to Mongoose dazes and disorient him to the point he can pummel Thor mercilessly without Thor able to aim. So yeah - Mongoose in order to 'blitz' Thor needed to gas him to the point he couldn't defend himself.

It's like saying Spiderman is slow because he was in the exact same position in the previous showing.

Your logic doesn't follow here because Spider-Man has dodged Mongoose on the other fight and has better combat speed feats than Thor. By contrast, Thor has other feats of being unable to tag street levellers so that plays into the feat's accuracy over your claim that it isn't a showing of Thor's speed.

And yet only does Spiderman make the claim, so does Nate Grey who comments how they did it together somehow off-panel. They're both second hand accounts of poorly defined events off panel with the only exception Cap doesn't have a someone else supporting the claim and actually was cheering on a depowered Thor that saved his life after being KOed by a stray bullet.

It's the same power-set, not the same power. Thunderstrike openly admits (frequently) to Thor being his superior, even in the scan above in strength and fighting ability. It doesn't help Thor's the one who kills him later on either while Thunderstrike was amped. Thor has better showings and has demolished Gladiator in one of them when he stopped holding back in a single hit to the face with Mjolnir with Gladiator unable to react.

I see your point but it doesn't change the fact that Thor has lesser speed showings as well. As for Gladiator, writers tend to ignore his speed capabilities when fighting Thor just like with the Surfer. Care to show this scan of Gladiator being unable to react so I can address it properly because Gladiator has also punted Mjolnir away and embarrassed Thor massively in the speed department in short scenes where it's clear he does have speed superior to Thor's.

Then maybe Spiderman should be blitzing Thor rather than his slower and weaker stand in. That way people can take this argument seriously because you aren't pretending two different characters with an established difference ability are the same character. Because Spiderman could blitz Thor all day without any acknowledgement and when Thor wants him off he would just smack him away just like Hercules did.

Perhaps your argument could be taken more seriously if you didn't blindly overlook the times Thor has downright failed to tag street levellers. And although Thor could brush off Spider-Man whenever, it wouldn't be with a direct hit. It'd have to be with an AOE or lightning attack because based on what Thor has shown speed wise in comparison to Spider-Man, he can keep out of Thor's hair for a long time if the two went strictly toe to toe. Oh and Spidey was smarting from the failed speed blitz on Herc and was STANDING STILL if you read the scan hence Herc tagging him.

Of course that isn't the question - it's whether or not people will read the comic titled ' Wolverine VS Thor' because the real fight happened in Uncanny Avengers and consisted of Thor easily KOing Wolverine who couldn't dodge him with that superior speed. And by element of Surprise Wolverine was staring him dead in the face as the hammer plummeted into him - quite the surprise since Wolverine has about six feet of distance to dodge.

By element of surprise I meant Thor had the drop on Logan. Besides, Mjolnir is capable of travelling IE travel speed at speeds faster than Logan can react to, I freely admit that. But that's the hammer that can move at those speeds. Thor's own combat speed and reactions are sluggish in comparison. It's faulty logic to claim he can react at similar speeds when the evidence shows otherwise. Though he can fly in a straight line blitz at a foe, he can't really react to his opponent's attack if they're fast enough to get out the way like certain established fast reacting DC powerhouses.

Not just trouble. He defeats the Warrior's Three and Thor - while apparently being chalked up to street level. Seriously a falling ship's mast KOed Thor - that means Thor's durability is bad right?

As ever, your argument overlooks a crucial difference. Thor's durability is pre established by having him tank buildings falling on him, endure the Hulk's punches and stand in the centre of the sun unfazed. That's why Thor being KOed by a mast is an inaccurate durability showing. In contrast, Thor regularly fails to tag street levellers in combat as the feats show so it's not inaccurate to claim that Thor is slow in combat.

I like how your argument is a snake biting it's own tail. Thor is = to Masterson when Masteron gets blitzed by Spiderman, but when Masterson can't even hit Thor one on one as Thor easily reacts / runs circles around him - "why's that impressive Masterson can't even hit Spiderman and someone was called slow by Captain America!!!" - and I could just easily post a scan of Cap praising a depowered Thor who had just saved his life as they leap roof-tops fighting gun-men / mobs of people together - at one point even breaking Thor's ribs because Cap is forgetful.

And I like how I'm going to easily counter your false analogy. Thor has failed to tag Logan, a guy who could barely tag Spider-Man and have his close friend and ally Captain America blatantly point out that Thor, the exact same guy who Cap has seen train on many occasions had the exact freaking same trouble with the exercise Cap skipped around like they were moving in slow motion. Your hypocrisy relies on faulty ABC logic whose premises overlook crucial evidence of Thor's blatant lack of consistently good instead of consistently poor combat showings and touting one poorly written case as more reliable than the sheer weight of evidence against. Your argument, to use another analogy doesn't see the forest for the trees.

#55 Posted by themadsurfer (339 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: Do you agree with me them??? He has hit that thing twice before Gladiator could blitz him so that's a pretty awesome feat and he did in a space of a millisecond.

#56 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

There isn't much to sugarcoat and it doesn't help Mongoose literally runs away from him twice in that 'fight'. The main issue is, who cares if he uses the hammer to do what he does? It makes up for any lack of speed and he can still whack fast people or run around or into them easily with said hammer towing him.

Your logic doesn't follow here because Spider-Man has dodged Mongoose on the other fight and has better combat speed feats than Thor. By contrast, Thor has other feats of being unable to tag street levellers so that plays into the feat's accuracy over your claim that it isn't a showing of Thor's speed.

It's about the context of the scans. Thor in that instance was affected by the Mongoose's gases which prevented him from being able to defend himself. It's like tying 100 ton weights to Spiderman's legs and being surprised he doesn't dodge the Juggernaut running straight into him. This is supposed to be evidence for Thor being slow, yet even decades ago apparently for the Mongoose to even do anything of significance to Thor required his magic mongoose gas to do it.

I see your point but it doesn't change the fact that Thor has lesser speed showings as well. As for Gladiator, writers tend to ignore his speed capabilities when fighting Thor just like with the Surfer. Care to show this scan of Gladiator being unable to react so I can address it properly because Gladiator has also punted Mjolnir away and embarrassed Thor massively in the speed department in short scenes where it's clear he does have speed superior to Thor's.

It was less about Gladiator's speed being down-played and more so about Thor appearing right in-front of him and smashing Mjolnir into his face repeatedly.

Perhaps your argument could be taken more seriously if you didn't blindly overlook the times Thor has downright failed to tag street levellers. And although Thor could brush off Spider-Man whenever, it wouldn't be with a direct hit. It'd have to be with an AOE or lightning attack because based on what Thor has shown speed wise in comparison to Spider-Man, he can keep out of Thor's hair for a long time if the two went strictly toe to toe. Oh and Spidey was smarting from the failed speed blitz on Herc and was STANDING STILL if you read the scan hence Herc tagging him.

Then use scans of them blitzing Thor instead of some other character who isn't Thor. It makes no-sense. And is BEYOND dishonest. Given Hercules wasn't about to pass out from the assault, that Peter still has that prized agility / reaction time - Thor's supposed equal did a lot better than Thunderstrike.

By element of surprise I meant Thor had the drop on Logan. Besides, Mjolnir is capable of travelling IE travel speed at speeds faster than Logan can react to, I freely admit that. But that's the hammer that can move at those speeds. Thor's own combat speed and reactions are sluggish in comparison. It's faulty logic to claim he can react at similar speeds when the evidence shows otherwise. Though he can fly in a straight line blitz at a foe, he can't really react to his opponent's attack if they're fast enough to get out the way like certain established fast reacting DC powerhouses.

Here's where we usually miss to reach a consensus: Mjolnir is fast - much faster than Thor. It can easily reach FTL speeds (in normal space) upon exiting or returning to his fingers and he can command it to do what he wants it to do with him attached to it or not. Thor himself between his mind's processing power and physical attributes isn't particularly slow; it's why he can catch shells or pull off various feats that physically require some measure of speed to accomplish especially when using the hammer. That quasi-cosmic awareness comes in handy to help him operate at the level he does when writers want him to.

Sure Thor was in-fact slow in Wolverine VS Thor - slower than Savage Hulk and Wolverine gave him a harder time than most of the Silver Surfer did - but that's the nature of the book titled 'Wolverine vs Thor. Its the same as the team-up issue with Iron Man where Thor doesn't demolish Tony in a single hit as they trade blows. Its why Thor normally is such an under-performer in Avengers - the characters are adjusted to the story. If Fraction wants Thor zipping around the Silver Surfer at high speeds, he does or if whomsoever is writing Uncanny Avengers right now requires someone to bullrush Thor at massive FTL just to disorient him - they do.

We could look at the evidence in both camps: What should be kept in mind is what remains relevant in Thor's history on panel - the Mongoose blitz simply doesn't work with how current Thor works, generally most of this stuff dating past 15-to 20 years really isn't applicable to 2013 Thor. World Serpent yanking or what have you included.

As ever, your argument overlooks a crucial difference. Thor's durability is pre established by having him tank buildings falling on him, endure the Hulk's punches and stand in the centre of the sun unfazed. That's why Thor being KOed by a mast is an inaccurate durability showing. In contrast, Thor regularly fails to tag street levellers in combat as the feats show so it's not inaccurate to claim that Thor is slow in combat.

Its not failing to tag said character - it's said character mopping the floor with Thor and the Warrior's Three easily and still being called 'street-level' by you or anything else - which given this showing wouldn't be remotely accurate. Faster or not you don't pull off a stunt like that and be called street level.

And I like how I'm going to easily counter your false analogy.

The issue is you didn't - these are painfully circular arguments as you insist on things quite frankly know nothing about.

Thor has failed to tag Logan, a guy who could barely tag Spider-Man

Except you know he has tagged him, even in the fight where Wolverine was 'faster' than he was. He literally grabs him and hurls him through the air (he should have restrained him, but hey comics).

Since when? Logan's ran circles around Pete and Tony. Literally appearing out of no-where to land on Extremis Iron Man while he was in flight.

and have his close friend and ally Captain America blatantly point out that Thor, the exact same guy who Cap has seen train on many occasions had the exact freaking same trouble with the exercise Cap skipped around like they were moving in slow motion.

Read the scan again. - "Your predecessor also had problems with it" - that's all we get out of Cap, a vague reference to Thor having issues with this training exercise and how it's supposed to help with reaction time / combat instincts. That's all the information you get. You saying Thor had the 'Exact Same Trouble' is quite frankly dishonest.

Everything about the 'Thor is slow' argument is either incredibly dated or just dishonest. The fact you can't acknowledge either further drives home the point you simply don't care - you have a vision of Thor you turn a blind eye to anything that remotely says otherwise.

Your hypocrisy relies on faulty ABC logic whose premises overlook crucial evidence of Thor's blatant lack of consistently good instead of consistently poor combat showings and touting one poorly written case as more reliable than the sheer weight of evidence against. Your argument, to use another analogy doesn't see the forest for the trees.

A scan vaguely referencing something off-panel shouldn't be anyone's crutch in an argument. Thor clearly doesn't have scans being owned in training exercises, Masterson does. Thor doesn't have scans where he is blitzed / nearly knocked unconscious by Spiderman, Masterson does. Masterson couldn't even tag Thor and spends his carrier believing himself to be inferior and rightfully so.

List his consistently bad combat showings - preferably within the last twenty years.

@isaac_clarke: Do you agree with me them??? He has hit that thing twice before Gladiator could blitz him so that's a pretty awesome feat and he did in a space of a millisecond.

Creatures of reason don't jump the bandwagon - as far as I remember that showing wasn't particular impressive outside Thor owning Gladiator when he stopped holding back.

#57 Posted by Killemall (18582 posts) - - Show Bio

Eric Masterson with the power of Thor had issues tagging Thor.

It's almost like Eric Masterson is inferior to Thor in every way that counts - despite having his power. Up there Eric is thinking Thor's probably even stronger too and given how Eric just to fight Thor needed Mjolnir in his hand to avoid getting owned this kinda hammers that point home.

I always dislike the fact that you draw your whole argument between Thor and Thunderstrike from one panel. I have no desire to convince you but lets the guys you have tagged see it for what it is.

After this panel, Sif is injured and Thor goes all bloodlusted and vows to kill Masterson.

The fight continues next issue and last the bulk of next issue. So a moral off Thor vs Eric Masterson, Thor went on for 12 pages yet they can do no more than barely stalemate each other.

But you want to continue to believe Thor is so much faster than Eric Masterson based on one panel vs what is shown in the issue, difference being not a difference between stats but rather experience, one being warrior born next being an architect.

We could also in circles on how Thor twirled and all but its crystal clear from the scan who among the 2 is faster.

Weird part is, Moongoose being able to run circles around Thor doesnt show Moongoose is faster than Thor to you, but one panel of Thor dodging a couple of blows from Masterson shows Thor is faster than Masterson... a little double standard there aye :p

I would also like to point out that Thor one shotted Wolverine in Uncanny Avengers not astonishing X men, and Wolverine was powerless when that happened because the Goatgirl negated his X-gene and took away his healing factor.

But look i know we are going to disagree, but let everyone know the full side of it.

Chulain isnt a street level, he was Mikaboshi's right hand man given a stick of old powers. Much like Thor was granted a Mjolnir from Odin. With that he continues to blitz Thor and the warrior Three commenting how slow they are. If that doesnt show Thor is slow i am no idea what does.

#58 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is slow. Everyone knows this. How is this even being argued??

#59 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

You realize I'm the one that cut that panel out right? That panel shows everything that matters, between Masterson's own insecurities and Thor's own ability with a cool-head to run circles around him. Most importantly why trying to pretend they're equals is complete nonsense.

After this panel, Sif is injured and Thor goes all bloodlusted and vows to kill Masterson. The fight continues next issue and last the bulk of next issue. So a moral off Thor vs Eric Masterson, Thor went on for 12 pages yet they can do no more than barely stalemate each other.

I'm going to be a broken record and repeat this again: The entire fight consists of Masterson desperately trying to keep possession of Mjolnir because without it he loses. Any advantage gained on Thor is through that hammer and even then Thor was still gaining the upper hand nearly chocking Masterson out.

But you want to continue to believe Thor is so much faster than Eric Masterson based on one panel vs what is shown in the issue, difference being not a difference between stats but rather experience, one being warrior born next being an architect.

He is much faster, he's stronger, he's more durable and a much better fighter. There is no debate.

Weird part is, Moongoose being able to run circles around Thor doesnt show Moongoose is faster than Thor to you, but one panel of Thor dodging a couple of blows from Masterson shows Thor is faster than Masterson... a little double standard there aye :p

We could also in circles on how Thor twirled and all but its crystal clear from the scan who among the 2 is faster.

In the first set of scans Mongoose is faster than Thor was initially before Thor started twirling. The second set of scans Mongoose had to gas pellet Thor to do anything.

I would also like to point out that Thor one shotted Wolverine in Uncanny Avengers not astonishing X men, and

You should have read the edit I posted hours ago. I caught the mistake - despite it being recurring since I confuse the two.

Wolverine was powerless when that happened because the Goatgirl negated his X-gene and took away his healing factor.

Wolverine's healing factor was turned off moments before Thor hits him - all those super-human stats are still active. There is absolutely no reason to pretend otherwise unless you think a moment without the healing factor undoes everything that makes Wolverine - Wolverine.

But look i know we are going to disagree, but let everyone know the full side of it.

Context is good - not big fan of the opinion coming with it though.

Chulain isnt a street level, he was Mikaboshi's right hand man given a stick of old powers. Much like Thor was granted a Mjolnir from Odin. With that he continues to blitz Thor and the warrior Three commenting how slow they are. If that doesnt show Thor is slow i am no idea what does.

Thor in that comic is slow and so are apparently the Warriors Three. But it doesn't matter because that might as well be a different Thor than the one being written now.

#60 Posted by Killemall (18582 posts) - - Show Bio


You realize I'm the one that cut that panel out right? That panel shows everything that matters, between Masterson's own insecurities and Thor's own ability with a cool-head to run circles around him. Most importantly why trying to pretend they're equals is complete nonsense.

I realize the fact that you cut the panel and i also realize that one particular panel vs an entire issue of them fighting and doing no more than stalemating each other, actually conveys 2 different message.

You can see it one way, let people whom you tagged see it for what it is.

I'm going to be a broken record and repeat this again: The entire fight consists of Masterson desperately trying to keep possession of Mjolnir because without it he loses. Any advantage gained on Thor is through that hammer and even then Thor was still gaining the upper hand nearly chocking Masterson out.

And i am going to tell you the same thing again, without the hammer in possession for 60 seconds he turns into human, furthermore, the hammer doesnt make him faster or stronger.

And the hammer changes hands just fine throughout the fight without the fight turning into anyone's favor, something that should not happened if what you claim was true, i.e. Thor being significantly faster , stronger yada yada yada

The issues potrays a different picture than what you are trying to show based on one panel.

yeah so thats that.

He is much faster, he's stronger, he's more durable and a much better fighter. There is no debate.

Yet despite a bloodlusted Thor, cant win or even get a significant upper hand against Masterson, despite having fought nearly an entire issue..

If you cant see the entire fight for how they clearly seem par with each other, its on you, everyone else can and such is life :)

In the first set of scans Mongoose is faster than Thor was initially before Thor started twirling. The second set of scans Mongoose had to gas pellet Thor to do anything.

Really?

Coz you know one panel of Thor dodging Masterson blow, despite the fact that the fight continues the whole of next issue, clearly shows to you that Thor is faster, but a panel of Moongoose running circles around Thor doesnt?

Continue to be biased but yeah doesnt change the fact.

You should have read the edit I posted hours ago. I caught the mistake - despite it being recurring since I confuse the two.

The name of the issue doesnt matter in the least, what matters is his X-gene was turned off, the source of his mutant power.

Wolverine's healing factor was turned off moments before Thor hits him - all those super-human stats are still active. There is absolutely no reason to pretend otherwise unless you think a moment without the healing factor undoes everything that makes Wolverine - Wolverine.

No but the panel right before it which says she completely turned off his X-gene, the very source of mutant powers, might give a different story no?

"negating the X-gene"

X men - X gene = just men :p

So yeah, there is that.

Context is good - not big fan of the opinion coming with it though.

I am not sure i understand where this is coming from.

Thor in that comic is slow and so are apparently the Warriors Three. But it doesn't matter because that might as well be a different Thor than the one being written now.

Unless Jason Aron actually goes on to give Thor speed, just like we can seen happen to Hulk, to me its a no brainer.

And if you have problem with Thor being slow, and its clearly shown in more than one instance, feel free to write an angry email to marvel :)

#61 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Except they weren't stalemating - Masterson desperately tried to keep control of Mjolnir and it is the only reason Thor didn't end up choking the life out him. Ignore the 60 second time limit - do you honestly believe Masterson would win a fight with Thor without Mjolnir carrying him?

And i am going to tell you the same thing again, without the hammer in possession for 60 seconds he turns into human, furthermore, the hammer doesnt make him faster or stronger.

I didn't say it made him faster or stronger - it just allowed him to hit significantly harder.

And the hammer changes hands just fine throughout the fight without the fight turning into anyone's favor, something that should not happened if what you claim was true, i.e.

No it didn't. Emphasizing the one scan where Thor actually uses it to shatter tree doesn't change that. Thor's use consisted of shattering a tree; Masterson was the only one to actually score any repeated hits with Mjolnir in this fight and it was get Thor off him. All the damage Thor did was with his bare-hands and he still ended up looking a lot better during it.

Thor being significantly faster , stronger yada yada yada

Masterson thinks so - why shouldn't I argue?

The issues potrays a different picture than what you are trying to show based on one panel. yeah so thats that.

Masteron actually did get one punch in with the one arm Thor couldn't restrain. Brilliant.

Yet despite a bloodlusted Thor, cant win or even get a significant upper hand against Masterson, despite having fought nearly an entire issue..

If you cant see the entire fight for how they clearly seem par with each other, its on you, everyone else can and such is life :)

Yes I can see how on-par they are with Thor throwing him left and right across their fight as Masterson desperately tries to hold Mjolnir.

Really?

Coz you know one panel of Thor dodging Masterson blow, despite the fact that the fight continues the whole of next issue, clearly shows to you that Thor is faster, but a panel of Moongoose running circles around Thor doesnt?

Continue to be biased but yeah doesnt change the fact.

You know - for someone claiming bias on any party, you continue to propagate this nonsense on Thunderstrike being equal to Thor. Hell you just told everyone how the hammer changes ownership throughout despite that not being the case in your own scans. Weird world right?

The name of the issue doesnt matter in the least, what matters is his X-gene was turned off, the source of his mutant power. No but the panel right before it which says she completely turned off his X-gene, the very source of mutant powers, might give a different story no?

His physical stats don't disappear within MOMENTS of his healing factor being turned off.

Which was the only thing turned off. He still had claws and likely EVERYTHING else. You pretending otherwise is dishonest for the sake of "WOLVERINE > THOR!!!!"

"negating the X-gene"

X men - X gene = just men :p

So yeah, there is that.

Yeah. A man with claws coming out of his hands and metal bones.Clearly without his healing factor Wolverine loses all his enhanced physical stats the moment it's turned off, because that makes sense. I mean after all Thor does hit him and we all now Thor can't hit Wolverine right?

The only thing the S-Man did was make sure Wolverine didn't get back up.

I am not sure i understand where this is coming from.

I like context, but with the context provided comes an interpretation of events that doesn't seem accurate or free of bias.

Unless Jason Aron actually goes on to give Thor speed, just like we can seen happen to Hulk, to me its a no brainer.

And if you have problem with Thor being slow, and its clearly shown in more than one instance, feel free to write an angry email to marvel :)

Honestly considering how much you have to intentionally misinterpret to sell "THOR IS SLOW" I have no reason to write a letter. Mongoose was faster than Thor till he twirled. The second time Mongoose needed to have Thor unable to aim in order to attack him (Not even bothering to acknowledge that). Thunderstrike? Eric Masterson is brought back from the dead just so you post a scan of Captain America saying "Thor had trouble with this too!" or have a scan where Thunderstrike is blitzed by Spiderman to the point of nearly being knocked unconscious. It just goes on and on - it is a strawman.

If you want to pretend Thunderstrike is = to Thor, despite that never being the case - more power to you. Same with pretending that scans from over forty years ago are still relevant to 2013 iterations of the character.

#62 Edited by Killemall (18582 posts) - - Show Bio


Except they weren't stalemating - Masterson desperately tried to keep control of Mjolnir and it is the only reason Thor didn't end up choking the life out him.

Yeah you keep telling yourself that.

The issues shows something completely different, a fight lasting the full extent of the issue without one actually winning.

Probably wont given Thor has "slightly" better stats thanks to him being a warrior born, but the difference between the 2 is hardly anything to suggest they operate in 2 different level. They are both Thor, they both fought, on panel, clear as day, for an entire issues where Thor was bloodlusted and the fight was still a stalemate.

On panel evidence spokes volumes beyond your personal opinion.

I didn't say it made him faster or stronger - it just allowed him to hit significantly harder.

And a minute ago you were pretending Masterson couldnt even hit Thor, or the fact that Thor is significantly faster.

My question is simple: if Thor is significantly faster, stronger yada yada yada, then pray tell why despite the whole issue of fighting Thor can do no more than actually stalemate the fight. Why didnt Thor win, despite that long fight?

No it didn't. Emphasizing the one scan where Thor actually uses it to shatter tree doesn't change that. Thor's use consisted of shattering a tree; Masterson was the only one to actually score any repeated hits with Mjolnir in this fight and it was get Thor off him. All the damage Thor did was with his bare-hands and he still ended up looking a lot better during it.

Yeah Thor got hold of mjolnir just fine and Thor was getting hit just fine, and neither of them was winning. It doesnt get any more clear than that.

A crystal clear difference in stats would have turned the fight solely in Thor's favor, which isnt what even remotely happened.

There was also a short exchange where Thor had the mjolnir and Masterson didnt, which still didnt change anything.

Masterson thinks so - why shouldn't I argue?

First Masterson never said anything about their stats being significantly different , furthermore, all Masterson said was Thor had "strength advantage" nothing about his speed was mentioned. Not to mention its perfectly in line with both there characters, one being extremely humble while other cocky.

You are the one making too big a case based on one panel of Thor dodging, and ignore the entire issues of him not being able to either replicate that, or him being bloodlusted and not being able to get any upper hand.

Masteron actually did get one punch in with the one arm Thor couldn't restrain. Brilliant.

Yeah you would say something like that wouldnt you?

Masterson also jumped on him and went toe to toe with him for a short time with the hammer.

Yes I can see how on-par they are with Thor throwing him left and right across their fight as Masterson desperately tries to hold Mjolnir.

Again the difference is without touching the hammer Masterson gets depowered so him trying to hold on to the hammer makes sense.

Master did land a hit on Thor without the hammer, he did jump on Thor without the hammer, and he didnt lose the fight for a whole issue.

And thats a bloodlusted Thor vs in character Masterson once the illusion wayned. So yeah, there is that too.

You know - for someone claiming bias on any party, you continue to propagate this nonsense on Thunderstrike being equal to Thor. Hell you just told everyone how the hammer changes ownership throughout despite that not being the case in your own scans. Weird world right?

We have a whole issue of them fighting, and bloodlusted Thor not being able to win but for reason somehow saying they operate on the same stats is nonsense, why, because you dont like it?

And hammer didnt change ownership, so this never happened?

And there they are fighting with hammer in each other hands just as well.

but you would continue to pretend Thor is so much faster than Masterson because one panel of him dodging Masterson hit is the be all and end all of how much faster Thor is, but the same to Moongoose isnt even remotely the face because...

yeah thought so.

His physical stats don't disappear within MOMENTS of his healing factor being turned off.

It does when his mutant stats are based on his X-gene, the source of his power that was being turned off.

You can look at one panel saying it turned off his healing factor and ignore the fact that she actually turns the entire X-gene off.

But yeah such is life.

Yeah. A man with claws coming out of his hands and metal bones.Clearly without his healing factor Wolverine loses all his enhanced physical stats the moment it's turned off, because that makes sense. I mean after all Thor does hit him and we all now Thor can't hit Wolverine right?

The only thing the S-Man did was make sure Wolverine didn't get back up.

Yeah because the claws out of his hands werent thanks to his X-gene right?

The adamantium was laced on him, the rest was all because of his X-gene, something that was turned off.

And Thor, flying with his hammer, mind controlled, managed to land a hit on a depowered Wolverine , clearly, unambigously counter him being slow is pretty awesome.

I like context, but with the context provided comes an interpretation of events that doesn't seem accurate or free of bias.

I agree the interpretation from "you" clearly doesnt seem free of bias when same thing happening in 2 differnet instance shows 2 different things.

Or how an inability of Thor to win a prolongued fight, despite being bloodlusted, against an in character foe, shows he is significantly faster than the opponent.

Honestly considering how much you have to intentionally misinterpret to sell "THOR IS SLOW" I have no reason to write a letter.

Oh yes how much i am misinterpreting Moongoose actually runing circles around Thor not showing Thor being slows than him, and all but yeah its easy to just pretend otherwise no?

You keep telling yourself that and pretend whats clearly shown on panel, Moongoose indeed being faster than him but he gets hit by mjonir he gets disoriented coz he doesnt have you super human stats.

But this somehow changes the fact that he was practically running circles around him right?

Rubbish.

The first time they fought, during Thor 391 is where Moongose used the gas and it was intended on Spiderman and not Thor.

Second time they fought, Moongoose just blitzed him and left.

But more interesting is the fact that this doesnt show Thor is slow

But Thor dodging Masterson hit shows he is so much faster... right?

You pretend its a strawman when its crystal clear it isnt. Thor himself got blitzed by a guy on the same speed level as Spiderman, namely Moongoose, twice. Coz mocked for his lack of speed by another character who doesnt have superspeed either. But pretend all you want.

Coz you know calling it a strawman is a lot easier than accepting what is shown.

If you want to pretend Thunderstrike is = to Thor, despite that never being the case - more power to you. Same with pretending that scans from over forty years ago are still relevant to 2013 iterations of the character.

Oh yeah pretend again.

Neither the Wolverine instance nor Chulain instance is any more than 10 years old but we ignore those dont we?

We also have Tom Brevroot saying Thor likely cant run very fast.

Yeah but you can do what you did last time, pretending all Brevoort said was Thor has never done it, instead of seeing it for what it is. Brevoort not believe Thor can run anywhere close to 150-300 miles per hours.

Heck i have shown you bio entry showing Thor is slow, on panel him getting blitz, editor statement substantiating Thor is slow, but you are going to nitpick the hell out of it and still pretend none of that matter, which is cool.

I am not going to respond to you further on this topic because you are going to continue to nitpick as you always do, i have put up my scans, i have put up my details, lets other people (not as biased as you) see it for what it is.

Have a great day.

#64 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: @foreverevil:

I thought we respectfully agreed that Thor's seed is fast and not slow, or did I get the wrong idea? His transverse speed is slow but his combat and travel are not, Thor has a more consistent showing on his speed being fast then that 'mongoose' and other short instances. Must I address this issue again?

#65 Posted by themadsurfer (339 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Ask Brevoort about Thor reflexes not how much he can run, because he's freaking slow at that. What can you tell me about this:

Tagged by wolverine, Mongoose, Spiderman, Chulai.

Able(Thor/BRB) to tag (using their speed even if it isn't their maximum) Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Hyperion + 2 millisecond showings and 1 microsecond, being blur of motion twice. A question because I can see you are a smart guy (I'm not being sarcastic): Do you something about Hermes speed??

#66 Posted by Killemall (18582 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Ask Brevoort about Thor reflexes not how much he can run, because he's freaking slow at that.

I am not entire sure i follow , so you believe Thor is slower when it comes to running, which would be he natural speed, but rather faster at reacting? Seems odd.

Tagged by wolverine, Mongoose, Spiderman, Chulai.

Not tagged, fast guys gets tagged all too often, but rather blitz by Moongoose and Wolverin and Masterson was blitzed by Spiderman.

Chulain actually mocked his speed.

Able(Thor/BRB) to tag (using their speed even if it isn't their maximum) Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Hyperion + 2 millisecond showings and 1 microsecond, being blur of motion twice.

Not sure i entirely understand.

BRB tagged Surfer , which is cool, a fight in which he got quickly got overpower in 2 pages.

And Silver Surfer has been tagged quite constantly.

Gladiator or Hyperion instance is good, but can you even remotely tell me what speed they were fighting at, coz Hulk is another guy who has fought and beaten both of them.

I see one microseconds reaction time, and thats about it. Its a one off feats, not much different from say someone like Iron Fist has replicated.

For a guy at his level, Thor is slow. Its hard to contest the fact. But like every fictional character his stats can be changed by the writer. I would be interested to see if Jason Aaron eventually changes Thor stats.

The reason i went with the 7 showing i did, was not being slower people have tagged Thro, but rather those instance clear show them being faster. 2 instance of Moongoose actually blitzing Thor, not just tagging him, and showing he is capable of hitting him 100 times before he can react. An instance with Thor, himself , outright admitting, Wolverine is faster than he is. An instance where a guy with so super-speed first mocking his speed and outright stomping him.

I dont like the idea that fighting or tagging fast people makes you faster. Someone like Hulk, Hercules and Mangog have done that consistently. But when a issues clearly shows one character being faster than other its hard to disagree what the issue is trying to show.

#67 Posted by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

@lvenger: @foreverevil:

I thought we respectfully agreed that Thor's seed is fast and not slow, or did I get the wrong idea? His transverse speed is slow but his combat and travel are not, Thor has a more consistent showing on his speed being fast then that 'mongoose' and other short instances. Must I address this issue again?

When did this happen? I never agreed that Thor's combat speed was fast at all. I've always been of the mind that Thor has lackluster combat speed. His travel speed is pretty fast but that's because of Mjolnir, not because of Thor's own reactions which are pitifully street level at best. Thor consistently gets shown up by Mongoose and the ilk. If you think you can prove otherwise, by all means go ahead and try but I've done this dance too many times to count now so forgive me if I dismiss your arguments so easily as I've seen a lot of them before.

#68 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:
@experio said:

@lvenger: @foreverevil:

I thought we respectfully agreed that Thor's seed is fast and not slow, or did I get the wrong idea? His transverse speed is slow but his combat and travel are not, Thor has a more consistent showing on his speed being fast then that 'mongoose' and other short instances. Must I address this issue again?

When did this happen? I never agreed that Thor's combat speed was fast at all. I've always been of the mind that Thor has lackluster combat speed. His travel speed is pretty fast but that's because of Mjolnir, not because of Thor's own reactions which are pitifully street level at best. Thor consistently gets shown up by Mongoose and the ilk. If you think you can prove otherwise, by all means go ahead and try but I've done this dance too many times to count now so forgive me if I dismiss your arguments so easily as I've seen a lot of them before.

helll no. what have YOU been reading? thor is slow

#69 Posted by themadsurfer (339 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Good answer I was trying to say blitzed by wolverine... I'm sorry.

BRB's ship can move FTL while in traveling mode and while they were that fast BRB stop in the middle of the pursuit to tag SS in a blitzing mode. The peed he has reacted although not being quantified must be very high.

Gladiator in the scan was bloodlusted and determinate to kill Thor and was using strategies until he used speed+distraction to hit Thor, while Thor hit the distraction twice before Gladiator reached him.

In the end you are write but so am I because of inconsistencies. BRB doesn't have that kind of low showings because he doesn't feel petty for his enemies, the day Bill get blitzed by wolverine I will never argue about speed anymore.

What about Hermes you didn't answer that.

#70 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

It shows an angry Thor trying to kill Masterson who is already trying to kill him. It is a struggle for Mjolnir - which Thor spends time trying to prevent from smashing into his face again.

Probably wont given Thor has "slightly" better stats thanks to him being a warrior born, but the difference between the 2 is hardly anything to suggest they operate in 2 different level. They are both Thor, they both fought, on panel, clear as day, for an entire issues where Thor was bloodlusted and the fight was still a stalemate.

On panel evidence spokes volumes beyond your personal opinion.

So you're willing to admit Thor's superiority - albeit using the 'Warrior Born' excuse that did nothing for him against Beta Ray Bill. We both know Thor's better at being Thor and certainly has MUCH better feats that Thunderstrike ever could dream of.

And a minute ago you were pretending Masterson couldnt even hit Thor, or the fact that Thor is significantly faster.

My question is simple: if Thor is significantly faster, stronger yada yada yada, then pray tell why despite the whole issue of fighting Thor can do no more than actually stalemate the fight. Why didnt Thor win, despite that long fight?

How do you dodge someone that you're basically holding hands with. Thor's mobility is gone because he's wrestling Masterson for Mjolnir or at least trying to control where it's being swung.

Yeah Thor got hold of mjolnir just fine and Thor was getting hit just fine, and neither of them was winning. It doesnt get any more clear than that.

A crystal clear difference in stats would have turned the fight solely in Thor's favor, which isnt what even remotely happened.

There was also a short exchange where Thor had the mjolnir and Masterson didnt, which still didnt change anything.

Masterson's dialogue: "I finally managed to recover the enchanted hammer... for all the good it will do me!" Even during this fight Masterson keeps acknowledging Thor as his superior, whether it's at fighting or physical strength. He's the actually person fighting Thor and he's telling us 'Thor's better - in every way that counts.'

First Masterson never said anything about their stats being significantly different , furthermore, all Masterson said was Thor had "strength advantage" nothing about his speed was mentioned. Not to mention its perfectly in line with both there characters, one being extremely humble while other cocky. You are the one making too big a case based on one panel of Thor dodging, and ignore the entire issues of him not being able to either replicate that, or him being bloodlusted and not being able to get any upper hand.

The panel posted shows Masterson lacking the speed to connect a hit to Thor - that's a fact. He's also muttering on about a difference in strength and then later that Thor is simply much more experience in combat. With every other page Masterson is announcing his inferiority to the audience. The Bloodlust bit doesn't matter considering Masterson's trying to kill him too.

Yeah you would say something like that wouldnt you?

Masterson also jumped on him and went toe to toe with him for a short time with the hammer.

You mean distracted him with a tree and immediately leaped into him to try and take it back?

Again the difference is without touching the hammer Masterson gets depowered so him trying to hold on to the hammer makes sense. Master did land a hit on Thor without the hammer, he did jump on Thor without the hammer, and he didnt lose the fight for a whole issue. And thats a bloodlusted Thor vs in character Masterson once the illusion wayned. So yeah, there is that too.

You mean distracted Thor and leaped into him to take the hammer back - because that's what he was trying to do. And yes the one arm Thor couldn't restrain while he was chocking out Masterson hits Thor in the face. Again we both acknowledged the superior combatant here and you keep muttering on about stalemate when you know who is performing better in this fight. So does Masterson.

We have a whole issue of them fighting, and bloodlusted Thor not being able to win but for reason somehow saying they operate on the same stats is nonsense, why, because you dont like it? And hammer didnt change ownership, so this never happened?

How many times can you say the same thing about being blood-lusted. It's not like Masterson was up in Asgard to buy some flowers - he was there to take Thor down.

And there they are fighting with hammer in each other hands just as well.

That's a tug of war - not a fight.

but you would continue to pretend Thor is so much faster than Masterson because one panel of him dodging Masterson hit is the be all and end all of how much faster Thor is, but the same to Moongoose isnt even remotely the face because... yeah thought so.

You know I said Mongoose was faster in that Spiderman encounter until Thor started twirling - right? You keep saying there is this moment of hypocrisy repeating the same point over and over despite to extent already agreeing with it.

It does when his mutant stats are based on his X-gene, the source of his power that was being turned off. You can look at one panel saying it turned off his healing factor and ignore the fact that she actually turns the entire X-gene off. But yeah such is life.

You took an individual panel out of context and began running an argument that Wolverine was depowered. That much is clearly not the case - especially given it out-right states his healing factor was what was turned off and that was literally a moment before Thor smashed him.

You can try to spin this all you want, you're wrong - very wrong. You literally have nothing supporting your argument as Wolverine is running around with metal bones and claws.

Yeah because the claws out of his hands werent thanks to his X-gene right? The adamantium was laced on him, the rest was all because of his X-gene, something that was turned off. And Thor, flying with his hammer, mind controlled, managed to land a hit on a depowered Wolverine , clearly, unambigously counter him being slow is pretty awesome.

Okay tell me exactly how Wolverine is depowered - tell me he is actually weaker now immediately after his healing factor is turned off, his strength - speed, stamina, martial arts skills, etc are all gone because his healing factor was turned off moments before Thor hits him.

I want to see you say it again.

I agree the interpretation from "you" clearly doesnt seem free of bias when same thing happening in 2 differnet instance shows 2 different things. Or how an inability of Thor to win a prolongued fight, despite being bloodlusted, against an in character foe, shows he is significantly faster than the opponent.

I like how you can admit Thor is superior - yet argue other wise over and over.

Oh yes how much i am misinterpreting Moongoose actually runing circles around Thor not showing Thor being slows than him, and all but yeah its easy to just pretend otherwise no? You keep telling yourself that and pretend whats clearly shown on panel, Moongoose indeed being faster than him but he gets hit by mjonir he gets disoriented coz he doesnt have you super human stats. But this somehow changes the fact that he was practically running circles around him right?

You did and apparently don't give much of a damn which is disappointing. And why does he get hit? Because Thor can twirl apparently faster than Mongoose can move.

Rubbish.

The first time they fought, during Thor 391 is where Moongose used the gas and it was intended on Spiderman and not Thor.

Second time they fought, Moongoose just blitzed him and left.

But more interesting is the fact that this doesnt show Thor is slow

Read your own scans:

"THESE GAS PELLETS WILL LEAVE YOU DAZED AND DISORIENTATED... ...WHILE I USE MY OWN, NATURAL SUPER-SPEED TO PUMMEL YOU MERCILESSLY!"

You are being dishonest and given how much respect people have for you - it's a shame because this is rock bottom for ya.

But Thor dodging Masterson hit shows he is so much faster... right?

Yeah Thor while gassed into being dazed and disoriented is in-fact blitzable. Quite a shock if you ask me, Mongoose has to weaken Thor to blitz him.

You pretend its a strawman when its crystal clear it isnt. Thor himself got blitzed by a guy on the same speed level as Spiderman, namely Moongoose, twice. Coz mocked for his lack of speed by another character who doesnt have superspeed either. But pretend all you want.

Coz you know calling it a strawman is a lot easier than accepting what is shown.

The first time Thor has him run away, the second time Mongoose weakened him with gas. Explain to me how either of these are low - ends because I don't see it.

Oh yeah pretend again.

Neither the Wolverine instance nor Chulain instance is any more than 10 years old but we ignore those dont we?

And what have you spent the majority of your time talking about? Mongoose and Thunderstrike. Why? Because that is your argument in a nutshell.

We also have Tom Brevroot saying Thor likely cant run very fast.

And? Why should I care if Tom Brevroot tells us all the obvious that Thor has never ran that fast on panel. Because that's all he says and you seem to think that means something outside 'never saw it happen!'

Yeah but you can do what you did last time, pretending all Brevoort said was Thor has never done it, instead of seeing it for what it is. Brevoort not believe Thor can run anywhere close to 150-300 miles per hours.

I understand English isn't your first language - but that's what he actually says. Its not me twisting his words when I say 'all he says is he's never seen that on panel' and that's all it means. You could pretend it means something else but you would be wrong. Sometimes a tomato is a tomato and ironically your entire argument would be turned upside down as you do exactly what you accuse me of doing - rejecting reality.

Heck i have shown you bio entry showing Thor is slow, on panel him getting blitz, editor statement substantiating Thor is slow, but you are going to nitpick the hell out of it and still pretend none of that matter, which is cool.

I am not going to respond to you further on this topic because you are going to continue to nitpick as you always do, i have put up my scans, i have put up my details, lets other people (not as biased as you) see it for what it is.

Have a great day.

Cherry picking your scans or outright lying isn't much of an argument. Good day sir, I expect a response regardless because everyone here has to have the last word.

@lvenger said:

@experio said:

@lvenger: @foreverevil:

I thought we respectfully agreed that Thor's seed is fast and not slow, or did I get the wrong idea? His transverse speed is slow but his combat and travel are not, Thor has a more consistent showing on his speed being fast then that 'mongoose' and other short instances. Must I address this issue again?

When did this happen? I never agreed that Thor's combat speed was fast at all. I've always been of the mind that Thor has lackluster combat speed. His travel speed is pretty fast but that's because of Mjolnir, not because of Thor's own reactions which are pitifully street level at best. Thor consistently gets shown up by Mongoose and the ilk. If you think you can prove otherwise, by all means go ahead and try but I've done this dance too many times to count now so forgive me if I dismiss your arguments so easily as I've seen a lot of them before.

Considering street-levelers pretend they're hypersonic and keep pulling out silly feats like that. It isn't much of a lowball to say so.

#71 Edited by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: Considering you don't have a scan of Thor using his natural born superspeed (maybe you should read your own scans too) at a level anywhere near that of the high end street levellers in combat let alone beings with superhuman speed like Quicksilver, Northstar or Monica Rambeau or Superman, it's clear high balling on your end.

#72 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Really cause you weren't able to dismiss his speed in our Thor vs Supergirl debate in which you ran away from, probably cause you knew the inevitable. Anyway lets get started:

You can hang with the Mongoose instance while I'll stay with these

I'm sure you remember those scans but here's others. Here's Thor blitzing Heimdall whose senses such as his eyes and ears are much greater than any Asgardian, but Thor moves too swiftly, and every-time Thor hits, Heimdalls ears are effected severely

Here's Thor blitzing Fenrir and Loki

I'll leave it like that for now but I have many more were that came from, lets see who can come up with more shall we since your so confident

#73 Edited by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@isaac_clarke: Considering you don't have a scan of Thor using his natural born superspeed (maybe you should read your own scans too) at a level anywhere near that of the high end street levellers in combat let alone beings with superhuman speed like Quicksilver, Northstar or Monica Rambeau or Superman, it's clear high balling on your end.

thats cause thor is slow. he couldnt even tag slow ass quicksilver. he had to resort to an area of effect attack. And quicksilver is pretty slow compared to just about every Justice Leaguer except Batman. Not that it matters here cause this is VS Mimic. Talking about how slow thor is, is just derailing the thread guys.

#74 Posted by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio: When did I run away from this debate? I probably got bored with it and your repetitive points. It's absolutely laughable you think I 'ran away' from this debate when you probably weren't proving anything. Anyway let me dismiss them one by one

  • Ha you honestly think that Hela's view on Thor's speed is important because oh-my-god-you-guys-they're-so-old-and-wise is a silly position. Hela does not have any speed to speak of so her making that claim means as much as if I said that my dad was stronger than an ox. Nice try.
  • Same point really. But here's an extra argument tagged onto it. Thor's lack of speed is more evident than ever in more recent years. Even old speed showings like deflecting a psi-bolt from Phoenix Rachel are massively contrasted with his recent showings where a Phoenix-less Rachel chumps him with a psi-bolt straight to the face while he had her right in front of him. He's not moving fast consistently in combat.
  • I've dealt with this assertion before and I see not one shred of evidence to show that Thor is moving fast here. All he does is wail on Loki. And it's absolutely clear this is an ordinary beatdown, not one carried out at a super speed speed blitz like Superman or other powerhouses can do.
#75 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@isaac_clarke: Considering you don't have a scan of Thor using his natural born superspeed

The issue isn't about whether I have a scan or not. It's all about you folks and what your set in-stone for a perception of a character. Thor's done a lot of things that simply require superhuman speed or enhanced mental processing power to do. Current Thor's consciousness expands itself across the rain-drops around him, he can see hundreds of thousands of miles with crystal clarity, sense blood being spilled light-years away and magically appear where needed in moments after being prayed to from the other side of the universe.

But can he dodge machine gunfire? Flip around laser beams? Knocking it clear out of his way doesn't count, neither does flying around it - it has to be him on foot doing it. With such ridiculous expectations you guys will happily be able to call Thor slow forever.

(maybe you should read your own scans too)

Which ones? I am a little tired of reading yours or Killers or more accurately just killers and telling you both whats on them. Taking a break sounds pretty good.

at a level anywhere near that of the high end street levellers in combat let alone beings with superhuman speed like Quicksilver, Northstar or Monica Rambeau or Superman, it's clear high balling on your end.

What level is that? The same usual nonsense from the hyper-sonic peak humans? How come the superhuman speed group is an assortment of characters Thor has either beaten or can beat? Seems kinda redundant.

Always a pleasure, maybe one day you can admit the clear faults in miss-representing select scans and claiming they're something they aren't.

#76 Edited by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Nop don't make excuses for yourself, you ran away by not replying back. Being bored is a laughable excuse, and dont make me look for the comments again cause I was for sure proving Thor would own Supergirl. I basically had you on the ropes hoping to see your next reply until you retreated and was never to be heard of again (aka ran away) - I'll take the victory thank you. Back to the topic:

  • Nop, pay attention to Thor's statement
  • The second one is to clarify, and its funny how you can babble but not show any evidence. The consistence will be shown on who can show more showings of our perspective arguments, are you not confident anymore?
  • Cause he didn't give any of them no time to attacks, hitting Fenrir while he was behind him while giving Loki no chance to think of anything. I thought his smoking fist was evident on how fast he was punching and moving his hands.

You couldn't dismiss him blitzing Heimdall, either way you haven't shown numbers superior to mine. For a guy who talks big, I'm finding it hard to take you seriously. I've seen many of your debates and I enjoy observing but sometimes......you just say the wrong things bro

#77 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: Some people just want him to be slow so other characters actually have a chance, since Thor literally would owns street levelers in any other category so people want to use speed as defense when Thor also has speed which are superior for that matter.

#78 Edited by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio: with all due respect. Nobody here has shown speed feats for Thor. Theyve just shown character statements and Marvel fans tell me character statements can NOT be trusted. So for that reason, NOBODY has shown that Thor isnt slow. On the other hand theres been plenty of examples showing that thor is indeed slow....cause he is.

#79 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@foreverevil: Did you miss my comment? Cause I'm pretty sure I placed scans of Thor blitzing Fenrir and Loki, Thor blitzing Heimdall, Thor battling faster than lightning stated by both Thor and and Adam Warlock. Statements such as Thor stating Odin is omnipotent cannot be trusted but these statements can why? Simply because they know how fast lightning is so its relevant. I have plenty more were that came from, now you say Thor is slow, prove it. Lets see which showings is more consistent. Only then will you find out his speed. Thor is slow only in transverse

#80 Edited by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

@foreverevil: Did you miss my comment? Cause I'm pretty sure I placed scans of Thor blitzing Fenrir and Loki, Thor blitzing Heimdall, Thor battling faster than lightning stated by both Thor and and Adam Warlock. Statements such as Thor stating Odin is omnipotent cannot be trusted but these statements can why? Simply because they know how fast lightning is so its relevant. I have plenty more were that came from, now you say Thor is slow, prove it. Lets see which showings is more consistent. Only then will you find out his speed. Thor is slow only in transverse

No. i Saw the scan. he jumped and tackled loki. doesnt show the speed or anything so thats invalid. Secondly as i already stated character statements are not allowed as fact. cause then sentry would be greater than galactus and zoom would punch harder than superman. Oh, you have plenty more?? ok awesome maybe we can use one of them. what do you mean prove it. its ALREADY been proven

#81 Edited by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@foreverevil: Its alright, I'll get into detail. Thor jumped on Loki and put him down, turned around and punched Fenrir before his weapon can even touch him, punches Loki again before he could do anything, he turns around, elbows Fenrir. Turns around and holds Loki, turns back hits Fenrir on and on. Thor didn't give Loki anytime to think and his said to be faster than thought with his Magic. Thats speed

Incorrect, only certain statements cant be held accountable, in this instance, they actually know how fast lightning goes so its relevant.

Cheap statements such as 'it has already been proved' will again, only delay the inevitable. It has not been proved

Thor's speed instances >>>>>>> Thor slow instances

The fact is, whatever PIS momemnt you show of Thor being slow.......I can double it with showings of his speed

Begin

#82 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm......

A debate of character's speed, eh?

#83 Posted by Superbot400 (420 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see the point of bring up Masterson Thor vs the Real Thor. The real Thor is more skilled then Masterson, and has better feats of willpower, and endurance. There is the fact that even if you remove Thor's powers, and he is still a street leveler at B-C-lister.

#84 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: As evident-ed on this thread, people 'want' to claim Thor is slow and not just because of a few PIS instances compared to Thor's consistently shown speed, they actually mean nothing. Its like saying, Superman got tagged by Grundy so his slow, he got tagged by a vampire girl so his slow, got tagged by meta humans so his slow etc etc etc. Seemingly when it happens to Thor....his apparently slow - No chance in hell

#85 Posted by AsgardianXeno929 (841 posts) - - Show Bio

If Thor being slow is more consistent than him being fast, then show all the scans of him being slow, then the ones of him being fast, add them up, and find an average.

I've seen only the wolverine, mongoose, and (just by mention) the cap and chulain one, yet people keep saying that its more consistent, stop saying that it is consistent and show that it is. I've seen two (or three was it?) of him catching tank shells, him being faster than adam worlock, him dodging mjolnir flying at him twice, him dodging masterson easily, and arguably the vs loki and fenrir scan.

Thats 4 for slow and 5 for fast.

THEN we if we factor in the fact that vs wolverine cant even be taken seriously since Wolverine was hallucinating that Thor was Sabretooth while Thor was sent to find out what was going on, NOT to fight him, and if we add the one vs loki and fenrir. Thats 3 for slow and 6 for fast. What now? A ratio of 1:2 with fast winning seems to point in a faster consistency.

#86 Edited by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio: You're just purposely derailing the thread and putting false ignorantly biased words in my mouth. The day I run away from someone claiming that Thor has fast combat speed is the day hell freezes over. I talk big becuase I know what I'm talking about unlike your misinformed foolishly argued stance here. Your points still prove nothing to support your case. Consistency is still on the side of the feats that Thor doesn't have good combat speed.

  • Read what Thor says when Wolverine is dancing around him. Read what Masterson (who stalemated a pi$$ed off Thor who thought Eric had mortally wounded or killed Sif) said about Spider-Man dancing around him. Read what Captain America said about the real Thor in his attempts on an exercise designed to test speed and reactions.
  • What evidence haven't I shown? The 6 feats on the first page and my debunking of other supposed speed feats in the other posts I've made speak for me in this instance. Plus you have yet to counter the logic that Thor has a 1/10 ratio of getting good speed feats stacked against him
  • His smoking fist is down to Loki's green barrier surrounding him at the time if you'd care to pay attention to your own scans. What's more, there's no clear on panel indication that Thor is actually moving at superspeed. When characters like Quicksilver or Superman or Flash move at speeds, the artist makes it clear that even without the on panel confirmation of how fast they're moving, the character is moving at superhuman speeds. In contrast, you can't claim the same for Thor here. Even if it is some one off speed feat, it isn't quantifiable making it not very credible.
#87 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: But you did run away, go back to thread and check yourself. You started by saying how you forgot the flame Thor threads can cause and then you left but I acknowledged your defeat. The only bias ignorant person here is you saying Thor is slow, yet you stated be Thor fan? A real fan would know his combat speed but your obviously misinformed or simply a hater who wants to believe his slow but I'm gonna prove you wrong again so please don't run away like a girl this time.

  • Eric is to Thor what Thunderstrike is to Thor when Captain America got the better of him. He was getting used to his abilities at the time. You would know that if you paid attention in that period on the character.
  • The green barriers are behind him and if you look at the first scan, 8 picture you dont see them and Thor continues to attacks without. It is only shown when he finishes. Your attempts of debunking has failed, Thor doesnt have to move in blur motion because there are two guys. The indication of speed is shown by not giving any of them to attack so it can be held accountable.

Recap:

The only relevant scans shown was:

  • Mongoose first encounter with Thor
  • And the instance with Wolverine.

I have shown:

  • Two instances of Thor being as fast
  • faster than lightning
  • Thor blitzing Heimdall
  • Thor being faster than Eric (who has in fact shown to be slow)
  • Isaacs pic
  • Thor blitzing both Loki and Fenrir by giving none of them the time counter

I'll add two more of Thor moving almost faster than a human eye

Thor moving in a blur motion

As of right now its:

8 vs 2

So unless you can come up with 7 more instances of Thor being slow, Thor is fast. Even that would be pointless cause I have 7 more scans. But I'm gonna take my time in posting them to actually give you a chance. Your welcome

#88 Posted by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

@lvenger: But you did run away, go back to thread and check yourself. You started by saying how you forgot the flame Thor threads can cause and then you left but I acknowledged your defeat. The only bias ignorant person here is you saying Thor is slow, yet you stated be Thor fan? A real fan would know his combat speed but your obviously misinformed or simply a hater who wants to believe his slow but I'm gonna prove you wrong again so please don't run away like a girl this time.

Perhaps you should read what I put instead of making up false BS ignorant moronic rubbish like your arguments usually consist of hmm?

@lvenger said:

I forgot how flameworthy Thor threads always become if you make even a hint that Thor isn't what he's cracked up to be. Think I'm too tired for this after spending an entire day arguing over two essays and now over Thor's non existent combat speed feats.

Page 4 of the Thor vs Miss Martian and Supergirl thread just before your reply. I was working on two essays which quite frankly were more important than me wasting my time correcting you on Thor's actual combat speed. And I was sick and tired of people failing to accept the same arguments after I'd proved them wrong. I absolutely fail to see how that counts as even a slight victory for you when I leave a thread to take a break from it and get back to real life whilst you gleefully claim some kind of victory over me when it's far from any kind of victory in the slightest. Your ignorant bias of my preference for Thor is absolutely embarrassing and ridicules your arguments even further. Now I'll debunk your false claims once more just as I have always been doing. A real fan would admit when they're wrong but your blinkered blindness will prove to be your undoing once again as I undermine your rubbish that you call an argument. Please don't try and counter this as honestly, you're disgracing yourself so far. And making petty insults by calling me a girl. All of which have earned you a flag for unruly behaviour which betrays the rules of the battle forums. Hopefully a mod will shut this thread down now as it's escalated out of control with truculent users like you fanning the flames of ignorance. Don't try this behaviour again as you will be punished for it.

  • The point is easily debunked by actually reading this thread and seeing the scans where Eric Masterson STALEMATES an angry, pi$$ed off Thor who thinks Sif is dead and yet they still don't end up edging out over each other. Regardless of what Eric says, the fight ended in a stalemate. Feats/on panel confirmation>>>>your biased opinion of events.
  • Once again your point fails to show how Thor is moving at superspeed at all. Is he tagging Loki and the other guy in blurs of motion? Is he striking at speeds so fast no one else can see? Has there been quantifiable measurements of how fast Thor is moving? Is there evidence to show he's moving fast at all? The answer to all these questions is a resounding no since your arguments fail miserably at addressing this.

Thus, what I have in my favour is Thor getting blitzed by Moongoose who couldn't tag Spider-Man, Thor getting blitzed by Wolverine, Captain America commenting on Thor being rubbish at an exercise designed to test combat speed and reactions and Quicksilver making Thor look like a slowpoke. And Masterson, who's Thor's equal has his own share of poor speed feats.

In contrast, we have your fradulent speed feats for Thor which can be countered as follows

  • Where were those two instances? You're not being clear
  • Exaggerated statements undermined further by street levellers such as Deathstroke supposedly moving as fast as lightning. I can get the scan if you really want to see it.
  • One off classic feat that is played out of proportion by the narration.
  • Dealt with the Eric assertion.
  • Dealt with Isaac's pics already
  • Dealt with your false scan as well

Oh noes, Thor moves in blurs of motion! Woe unto me, my argument is undermined. It's not as if street levellers have moved in blurs of motion

Oh look Wolverine moving faster than the human eye can follow in a blur of motion. Please go back to the drawing board, you're embarrassing yourself and boring me with these poorly constructed arguments.

#89 Edited by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Ofcourse its a victory because you left in the middle of the debate, you could have at-least gone to finish whatever you went for and tell me to wait for your return and reply but you didn't do that did you? I know it goes against your reputation to run away but don't make excuses for yourself. Saying Supergirl could defeat Thor was a joke, and it wasnt hard to prove Thor would annihilate her. Perhaps it was your love for the Kryptonians that blinded you from the truth, Iwas helping you come to realization. Flagging me for calling you a girl is ridiculous, and I hardly think its more offending than calling me ignorant. Anyway back to business:

  • Stalemating - doesnt mean their speed is the same and the only comparison isn through that panel were Thor is shown to have superior speed and never the other way around.
  • Read my words carefully 'Thor didn't give any of them time to attacks and his fist were smoking (indication) not because of 'barriers', Loki and Fenrir didn't attack once meaning Thor kept on turning around and hitting before any of them can react' - Speed

Your next paragraph made me laugh, the only slow moments of Thor in your favor is Thor being blitzed by Mongoose (1) and Thor commenting Logan to be faster than himself. Thor training was him getting used to his abilities and very different from ordinary Thor when training with Cap. I already proved Thor to be faster than Masterson

  • Go ahead, this isn't exaggeration since it was a battle since it has been stated multiple times
  • Played out of proportion, lol this is no time for jokes this is one of the consistence of Thor's speed
  • Yep, Thor faster than Masterson
  • How?
  • Which scans are you referring to?

Thats a nice speed feat for Wolverine and it indicates him going fast and so did mine, isn't that what you wanted? The writer showing it? Make up your mind, slow guys cant move in blur motion, slows gusy cant go faster than an human and Asgardian eye, slow guys cant combat as fast as lightning and faster. So all these scans I posted are held accountable simply because slows guys cant do these things.

So far:

The scans I posted of Thor's speed >>>>>>>>>>> The scans posted of him being slow

Your falling behind

#91 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio
#92 Posted by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Acknowledged Bane hence why I asked you to mediate on this thread to stop me and others escalating it out of control.

@experio said:

@lvenger:

Ofcourse its a victory because you left in the middle of the debate, you could have at-least gone to finish whatever you went for and tell me to wait for your return and reply but you didn't do that did you? I know it goes against your reputation to run away but don't make excuses for yourself. Saying Supergirl could defeat Thor was a joke, and it wasnt hard to prove Thor would annihilate her. Perhaps it was your love for the Kryptonians that blinded you from the truth, Iwas helping you come to realization. Flagging me for calling you a girl is ridiculous, and I hardly think its more offending than calling me ignorant. Anyway back to business:

Again I left because I had more important things to do. I stand by my assertion that Supergirl can beat Thor solo and I defended it well enough in that thread countering every point you made against me. Claiming a win because I left to do other things and because I'd had enough is just sad really when you didn't win anything at all as anyone would see in that thread. And I flagged you because of other things in that post too.

@experio said:

  • Stalemating - doesnt mean their speed is the same and the only comparison isn through that panel were Thor is shown to have superior speed and never the other way around.
  • Read my words carefully 'Thor didn't give any of them time to attacks and his fist were smoking (indication) not because of 'barriers', Loki and Fenrir didn't attack once meaning Thor kept on turning around and hitting before any of them can react' - Speed

Congratulations, you've proved he's slightly faster than someone who gets tagged by street levellers. Doesn't change the feats that have been shown already standing as merit to how slow Thor is in combat. And again, I counter this false point with the claim that it's evident Loki's smouldering green barrier that Thor was pounding on was the clear source of the smoking fasts. Not because Thor was moving fast in the slightest. All that feat comes to is a beatdown inflicted by Thor on Loki and Fenrir at ordinary speeds. Nothing you've said shows otherwise nor does the panel demonstrate that Thor is moving fast at all. Try harder if you want to show Thor's near non existent combat speed.

@experio said:

Your next paragraph made me laugh, the only slow moments of Thor in your favor is Thor being blitzed by Mongoose (1) and Thor commenting Logan to be faster than himself. Thor training was him getting used to his abilities and very different from ordinary Thor when training with Cap. I already proved Thor to be faster than Masterson

This is the laughable bit really. You also fail to disprove Cap's statement that the original Thor had problems with an exercise designed to test speed and reactions (his words) and Thor's own admission that Wolverine is faster than him. I suppose by that logic Wolverine is now actually capable of moving at nearly half the speed of light now hmm? Or could it be that Thor's speed has been blown out of proportion and he's actually really sluggish in combat? Yep I think that's the more likely answer.

@experio said:

  • Go ahead, this isn't exaggeration since it was a battle since it has been stated multiple times
  • Played out of proportion, lol this is no time for jokes this is one of the consistence of Thor's speed
  • Yep, Thor faster than Masterson
  • How?
  • Which scans are you referring to?

  • Yes it is exaggeration and just because it's said on the battle forums doesn't make it true. People claim Batman can beat Superman with prep yet that isn't taken as true. I've shown the feat to be exaggeration and you fail to counter it.
  • This is one feat taken from a 50+ year old comic. Compare that to the times Thor looks like a slowpoke in comparison to street levellers and the credibility of your point is easily undermined because the feat doesn't relate to Thor's consistency.
  • Dealt with that above, Thor is an equal to Masterson even when he's angry and fighting seriously against Masterson. Way to ignorantly blind yourself of that piece of context.
  • The 6 scans on the first page plus this one

Thor can't tag Quicksilver at all and has to resort to an AOE attack IE smashing his hammer on the ground to create a shockwave that stuns Quicksilver. And Quicksilver has been tagged by street levellers directly, heck even the Hulk gave him a pimp slap. Yet Thor has to hit him indirectly. What does that say about his so called speed?

@experio said:

Thats a nice speed feat for Wolverine and it indicates him going fast and so did mine, isn't that what you wanted? The writer showing it? Make up your mind, slow guys cant move in blur motion, slows gusy cant go faster than an human and Asgardian eye, slow guys cant combat as fast as lightning and faster. So all these scans I posted are held accountable simply because slows guys cant do these things.

So far:

The scans I posted of Thor's speed >>>>>>>>>>> The scans posted of him being slow

Your falling behind

Once again you blindly miss the point. Both feats show characters moving in blurs of motion and demonstrate that street levellers are capable of moving faster than the eye can follow. I can post Elektra, Spider-Man, Cap and more moving faster than the eye can follow so Thor doing that is no great measurement of his speed once again. And thus your last two examples are made even more redundant of your case demonstrating that your argument is now the one that falls on the wayside once again for presenting a misinformed position with poor interpretation of the feats.

#93 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24933 posts) - - Show Bio

As always with Thor threads, it's the same old crap about how fast he is and what-not.

Thor's speed is around street leveler no more, no less.

Online
#94 Posted by Killemall (18582 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Good answer I was trying to say blitzed by wolverine... I'm sorry.

Thats no problem :)

BRB's ship can move FTL while in traveling mode and while they were that fast BRB stop in the middle of the pursuit to tag SS in a blitzing mode. The peed he has reacted although not being quantified must be very high.

While i dont consider myself an expert in Skuttlebutt, i have never actually seen it go FTL in normal space, its normally done via hyperspace, or totally left unexplained how they got past such distance. Not to mention just because Skuttlebutt can go FTL doesnt mean its always going at FTL speed.

More over the core of my point is, if you look at Thor;s speed feat and say compare it with Hulk (for the record i still consider Thor faster of the two), you will not see much of a difference, barring one mention of microsecond reaction time. But one speed is consistently believed to be slow while the other is somehow massively faster , which is where i disagree.

Lets look at an example of Iron Man trying to blitz Hulk, or its what it looks, ending with Hulk reacting and swatting him away.

My point was slower character tagging faster character does happen quite often.

Gladiator in the scan was bloodlusted and determinate to kill Thor and was using strategies until he used speed+distraction to hit Thor, while Thor hit the distraction twice before Gladiator reached him.

Out of curiousity have you read Webspinners : Tale of Spiderman # 4, i asked because its an issue where Spiderman faces a bloodlusted Surfer, and actually manages to tag him quite constantly.

Do you see where i am going, do let me know if you want scans.

In the end you are write but so am I because of inconsistencies. BRB doesn't have that kind of low showings because he doesn't feel petty for his enemies, the day Bill get blitzed by wolverine I will never argue about speed anymore.

I didnt say you are wrong, in fact from what we have debated i think your argument is very solid, i am just showing an alternate interpretation. If you continue to say, look Gladiator was bloodlusted, he has no reason to slow down, there is honestly no counter that i can say, other than look this is what has happened with other character, regardless of whether you agree or not, your instance here is backed by genuine belief i see no reason to undermine that.

BRB doesnt have high showing of speed either, Thor and BRB are pretty consistently been potrayed as extremely strong and powerful character, speed has ever been a defining trait, and you will actually find that feats from Thor are normally matched by guys like Wolverine and Iron Fist.

What about Hermes you didn't answer that.

Its more of the same, we dont know what speed Hermes or his chariot was going at, but we know Hermes isnt faster than light, given Photon in her light form has outright blitz Hermes saying , there is nothing faster than light.

Hermes actually has very limited appearance, so argument being made in his favor or again is hard, specially when what speed he is going isnt actually stated.

@experio said:

You can hang with the Mongoose instance while I'll stay with these

I'm sure you remember those scans but here's others. Here's Thor blitzing Heimdall whose senses such as his eyes and ears are much greater than any Asgardian, but Thor moves too swiftly, and every-time Thor hits, Heimdalls ears are effected severely

Here's Thor blitzing Fenrir and Loki

I'll leave it like that for now but I have many more were that came from, lets see who can come up with more shall we since your so confident

I dont really see a huge speed feat there, ok so Hela couldnt touch Thor fair enough, but again Hela herself isnt known to be fast and given she actually has time manipulation in her arsenal, at least in her realm (cant recall where the fight took place) thats an odd showing. That being said, all Thor claims his reflexes are "swiftness of lightning itself"

What would you consider of this scan than?

Narration describing Iron Fist speed as "faster than lightning".

So Thor - fast as lighting, IRon Fist faster than lighting.

Lets look at Ultron for example, and a defective Ultron 12 model at that

Would you consider Ultron faster than Thor then? A character marvel has repeatedly said is slow (albiet later models had the ability to increase their perception as required) as he is not just fast as lightning but rather greesed lightning?

Thats sort of what my point is, Thor speed feats arent anything special to be honed about. He is, for the power level he operates at, pretty slow.

And i like the scan of Thor holding the tank shell, but Hulk has done that too, who has been seen has blurr quite frequently in the recent issues too.

If anything, as per scan, Hulk reacts significantly later than Thor and still manage to pull off the same feat.

I for one, dont see a reason to evaluate Thor speed feat, any more generously than say Hulk's or Hercules etc.

At least you have decades of multiple bios showing Hulk and Hercules are slow, but Thor is different because Marvel doesnt distinguish between reaction and travel speed in their stats bar, which is one reason Thanos and Thor normally gets ranked pretty damn high on the list despite not being anywhere close to those speed.

I dont see Thor slower than Hulk though, but honestly i dont see him much faster than him either, nor do i see Thor much faster, in combat, based on his own stats, then say Iron Fist.

If there a feat you could show me to try and disprove that assertion, a speed feat performed by Thor, and not while being dragged by mjolnir who is capable of perfectly doing task without Thor knowing the detail (mjolnir journed from Earth dimension to dimension of atum, despite Thor not having know where the heck he is, the hammer has also followed Ego at FTL speed without Thor knowing where they have reached).

Dont get me wrong though, Thor with hammer in straight light is faster, his hammer itself is beyond fast, but Thor's personal stats in terms of speed isnt.

#95 Posted by dondave (37535 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: What comics are your scans of Hulk from?

Online
#96 Posted by Killemall (18582 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: The Avengers Inititative One Shot.

#97 Edited by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: You can flag me as much as you like for your satisfaction, you insulted me too but i'm not that type of guy who gets mad about it. I understand you had better things to do but did you come back to finish our debate? No you didn't - in other words conceded.......win for me. Your arguments for Supergirl were ripping apart and I dont blame you for running away, I would have done the same if I new I was going to lose

Loki is said to be faster than thought, the damage and speed caused by Thor prevented his counter even while paying attention to Fenrir. The fist smoking is not because of the green barrier, look at the ninth pic of the first scan, there is no barrier and as Thor is proceeding to attack. Move to the second scan, and there you see it. Try using your eyes and not a deceiving brain.

You have to be a comedian lol, I'm not debunking the Thor's statement towards Wolverine. I'm simply proving it to be PIS by comparing it with the majority of feats that Thor has shown speed. That Thor was learning to get used to his abilities so please do some research.

  • Please show me were you proved it was an exaggeration? Cause I only remember you stating something similar happen to Deathstroke therefore, this feat is irrelevant. You havent proved nothing unless your demands have to be followed? lol
  • This feat is part of the many other instances which are much greater than what you provided. So you can go ahead compare
  • Again, stalemating doesnt equal same speed. Thor already showed he has superior speed. And I suggest you dont call me ignorant again - we dont want to get in trouble by Citizenbane. Ease your temper
  • The Wolverine and first Mongoose ones are the only ones you have, the others were Eric Masterson, the second mongoose was by using those and not speed advantage. The sixth one was a joke

Thor's encounter with Quicksilver is actually him showing speed, why? Other characters like Hulk who supposedly tagged Pietro must have been close while Thor and him had distance, Pietro was able to dodge the lightning but not Thor hitting the ground which should have taken longer to reach Pietro feets or given him the time to dodge but he was inable to meaning. Thor hit the ground and got him faster than lightning.

And finally, you are missing the point. You stated Thor was slow, now of-course street-levlers did that but this is about Thor and guys like Spider-man are not slow obviously unless your comparing him to Flash. Thor has shown better speed feats than just moving in a blur motion or faster than a human eye can see but these are examples of him being fast not his fastest times. His still faster than lightning.

And you still didn't beat my scans, couldn't you find more scans of Thor being slow? Cause it looks like I still got the numbers which show his speed is more consistent

#98 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: But Iron Fist and Ultron were only said to be faster than lightning once right? While multiple times for Thor, now the narrator by be exaggerating but that can be said for Adam Warlock cause he obviously know how fast lightning travels and so should Thor (being the God of Thunder). I understand and I'm not saying Thor is as fast as Flash or Superman, his transverse speed is slow and and his combat speed is not on their level but that doesnt mean his slow. It should be determined by consistency right? If you count Thor instances of being slow and compare it to his instances of him being fast. Then that should be your answer, and his speed is double those PIS moments. Writers nerfed him to actually give characters like Logan a chance which is entirely wrong by taking advantage of his speed. But slow guys cant do what Thor has shown many times

#99 Edited by Lvenger (20008 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

@lvenger: You can flag me as much as you like for your satisfaction, you insulted me too but i'm not that type of guy who gets mad about it. I understand you had better things to do but did you come back to finish our debate? No you didn't - in other words conceded.......win for me. Your arguments for Supergirl were ripping apart and I dont blame you for running away, I would have done the same if I new I was going to lose

I didn't finish the debate because I had more important things to do finishing off my essays. Those take importance over debating fictional fights. Plus I was capable of letting the debate go unlike you who still seem fixated on it for some strange reason. You can believe that you took some fictitious 'win' over me somehow but the reality is that I just left the debate because I had more important things to do and, quite frankly, I was displeased with your aggressive, brash and abrasive attitude which you're displaying here yet again. I prefer to debate people I respect or understand their POV. Yet you I do not respect at all or your arguments that you make against me. They're stereotypically weak and I take no pleasure in responding to them other than out of some pleasure at proving you incorrect.

@experio said:

Loki is said to be faster than thought, the damage and speed caused by Thor prevented his counter even while paying attention to Fenrir. The fist smoking is not because of the green barrier, look at the ninth pic of the first scan, there is no barrier and as Thor is proceeding to attack. Move to the second scan, and there you see it. Try using your eyes and not a deceiving brain.

I knew you'd bring this up. Was he moving faster than thought there? No he got blindsided by Thor and beaten up at normal speed. It's clear to see without using your brand of false logic that Thor's attacks on the green barrier carried over to the rest of his beatdown with Loki. It's a vastly superior explanation than any fallacious claim that Thor attacked them at superspeed for which there is not even a shred of evidence for and none presented by you that I haven't debunked.

@experio said:

You have to be a comedian lol, I'm not debunking the Thor's statement towards Wolverine. I'm simply proving it to be PIS by comparing it with the majority of feats that Thor has shown speed. That Thor was learning to get used to his abilities so please do some research.

Oh of course if Wolverine dances around Thor, it must be PIS. It's not as if there are a plethora of feats for Thor being shown up in combat speed with logically coherent arguments supporting that case and agreed by the majority of notable debaters on this site whom I respect a great deal. Nope definitely aren't those at all (sarcasm in case you don't pick up on it)

@experio said:
  • Please show me were you proved it was an exaggeration? Cause I only remember you stating something similar happen to Deathstroke therefore, this feat is irrelevant. You havent proved nothing unless your demands have to be followed? lol
  • This feat is part of the many other instances which are much greater than what you provided. So you can go ahead compare
  • Again, stalemating doesnt equal same speed. Thor already showed he has superior speed. And I suggest you dont call me ignorant again - we dont want to get in trouble by Citizenbane. Ease your temper
  • The Wolverine and first Mongoose ones are the only ones you have, the others were Eric Masterson, the second mongoose was by using those and not speed advantage. The sixth one was a joke

  • It's a proven exaggeration because street levellers like Deathstroke and Iron Fist have been said to move faster than lightning. Yet obviously that doesn't mean that they can react at half the speed of light. Similarly, Thor's 'lightning' speed feats fall into that same category because they're clear exaggerations (Warlock and Hela are not competent judges of speed) that street levellers have replicated.
  • I've already shown plenty of instances of Thor being shown up in combat speed and you keep trying (but failing) to counter them.
  • Except for the fact that Masterson kept up with Thor for the entire fight. Thor jumping around is just him on the defensive and no indictment that he's really faster than Masterson who isn't trying to dodge Thor's hits. Once again you fail to show how Thor has superior speed to someone he was stalemated against in the fight. And it's not an insult to call your arguments ignorant.
  • Of course the sixth one is obviously a joke because God forbid Thor have poor combat showings against someone who isn't a street level being when he gets shown up by street levellers in speed right?
@experio said:

Thor's encounter with Quicksilver is actually him showing speed, why? Other characters like Hulk who supposedly tagged Pietro must have been close while Thor and him had distance, Pietro was able to dodge the lightning but not Thor hitting the ground which should have taken longer to reach Pietro feets or given him the time to dodge but he was inable to meaning. Thor hit the ground and got him faster than lightning.

Hahaha, thanks for the chuckle, it amuses me to think Thor failing to tag Quicksilver is any indication of speed. All he did was slam the hammer and the ground and you take that move in your fantasy logic that Thor can somehow strike faster than lightning? Despite the fact Quicksilver was bragging and that shockwaves from other powerhouses have knocked speedsters over? Heh I never thought someone could so poorly misinterpret a feat like that. Here what you need is the definitive thread on Thor's combat speed discussed by some of the Vine's best debaters. You'll see why I hold the position I do and maybe come around if you're willing to be open which, based on your arguments doesn't seem to be likely.

@experio said:

And finally, you are missing the point. You stated Thor was slow, now of-course street-levlers did that but this is about Thor and guys like Spider-man are not slow obviously unless your comparing him to Flash. Thor has shown better speed feats than just moving in a blur motion or faster than a human eye can see but these are examples of him being fast not his fastest times. His still faster than lightning.

And you still didn't beat my scans, couldn't you find more scans of Thor being slow? Cause it looks like I still got the numbers which show his speed is more consistent

Sorry but it's you who missed the point again. Street levellers have consistently moved like blurs of motion faster than the human eye can follow. Here's Elektra moving through a mercenary camp faster than anyone can see her

Yet obviously, Elektra can't react or move faster than lightning. Evidently then, these are merely peak human/low level superhuman speed feats aka street level in nature. And this is where Thor is consistently ranked based on his feats when properly interpreted in comparison to this.

And if you're talking about which one of our arguments has the most inaccurate, poorly misinterpreted feats for Thor's speed, then by all means you have the edge in that department. You're definitely winning by far against me here, I could never compare to the level of inaccuracy you have. Though inaccuracy isn't in my debating style so go figure there. I tend to get my facts, logic and context straight on these kind of feats since I know my stuff on Thor for all you want to dispute that along with me not liking him when he's my 4th favourite character and I'm loving Aaron's run on the character.

#100 Posted by Experio (16065 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Your not reading properly, I already stated that you had more important things to do but you didn't post-pone the debate or even let me know if your gonna reply back. I basically wasted my time yet you think thats not a win for me just because you had more important things to do. I dont enter debates I know I wont win, I know and you know for a fact there's no way you could have won that Thor vs Supergirl debate. The only stat you were holding on to is speed and even that wasn't entirely on your favor. Leaving stating you got an Essay was a run away, yes it could be true but you could have returned which you didn't. And you think I dont like debating against respectful guys? I'm not gonna talk respectfully to someone who puts 'ignorance' in nearly all their paragraphs but I'm also not gonna insult, you obviously dont know yourself when debating. Your anger easily gets the better of you. We used to be cool in my other account until it had no access to this web-site. But I still find this non-sense outrageous and a little disappointing

Loki had no time to react not only because of Thor's speed which you think is normal but because of the impact of Thor's hits which would hurt greatly. That should actually be a durability feat for Loki for taking that many hits. And for the tenth time:

Look at the ones with the black mark, Thor is punching without the green barriers around Loki and he has no smoke in the progress. Which means when you see the smoke at the end, thats the indication he was pursuing them as quickly as possible. Partly why Loki was unable to react.

  • Have Deathstroke and Iron Fist been said to be as fast as lightning just once or multiple times cause there is difference therefore Thor cannot fit into their category. Both Warlock and Thor are not stupid, it would be dumb to say they dont know how fast lightning goes. Especially Thor who is the God of Thunder and Lightning
  • Again, I'm not gonna bother debunking cause there's no point. I'm proving them to be PIS by comparing them to initial and more consistent instances by providing ore showings then you ever could. You haven't showed 'plenty' nor more than mine
  • They stalemated but that doesnt mean Thor was using his speed.

'This is starting to get real FRUSTRATING!' - Eric is frustrated because he cant land a hit on Thor, why? Because Thor is faster

'I cant seem to land a blow on him!' - He cant land a blow because Thor is too fast.

They can stalemate all they like but Thor is faster and stronger than Masterson but that doesnt disregard this panel. Yes, Masterson can hit Thor but not when Thor's fighting like this

  • Did you even look at it?

Can Elektra move in a blur motion or faster than lightning? Again, Thor moving almost faster than a human eye was an example of his speed (being fast), I know street levelers are capable of that but they don't have combat speed feats said by Thor with versatile statements. Its great Thor's your 4th favorite, for me his second after GL. If you know him well then you should know he has a more consistent showing of speed then him being slow which is the point I'm trying t prove here. The numbers are on the side with him showing his speed not the other way around, his low showings are 1:4 each time