• 195 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
#101 Posted by Wyldsong (5316 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: Wolverine even holding back and trying not to kill has showings like this:

And this:

So even if wolverine wasn't going for the kill he still has a lot of impressive displays. Yet Kaine managed to beat wolverine something Peter had issues with. That is why I still say Kaine vs wolverine is still an impressive feat for Kaine. On the subject of wolverines durability being downplayed it wasn't. Every time wolverines heart has been destroyed he has been knocked out temporarily. The showing in scarlet spider is not a low showing for wolverine. And his durability was acknowledged (hence Kaines comment of nearly breaking his hand).

I think Kaine would beat Wolverine, but it would be a dragged out fight. Wolverine Skill as seen on the Vine Battles is scary good and should more than have countered a Stab to the heart.

It makes no sense to me how quick and pathetic that battle was. Grey Hulk vs Wolverine was longer and more impressive!

Anyway. I in no way think Kaine would not own this match if it was vs Ultimate Peter. However their is many factors here.

1) Venom Sting that KOes Omega Red, 616 Peter (When Miles got serious), Scorpion, Giant Women, Rhino, Venom, ect..... Its a instant win with a touch on someone of Kaines durability, as long as Miles is blood lusted and using it at full power.

2) Miles has Spider Sense to negate Kaine's own Stealth Suit.

3) Miles has Invisibility, Kaine has no Spidey Sesne. Surprise attack is easy! Suprise Attack with a touch!

4) Kaine as the other fights with instainct and no skill as well does not use Stealth Suit. Easier win for a Stealth Venom Sting!

Miles should win this.

Alright, question...Miles has spider-sense...is it as advanced as 616 Peter's who could basically pinpoint and track?

Now, I can get scans of Kaine using the stealth suit in combat (not today, tomorrow if I have time). He has and does use it in fights.

As for Kaine fighting with instinct and no skill, I disagree. He may not be traditionally trained, but he is very skilled and fast. He has taken down teams of skilled assassins, and has plenty of experience fighting people with spider powers (Venom, Carnage, Spidey). Not to mention jumping through a being of pure energy and taking a lightning bolt and coming to within seconds -- not saying Miles could not take him out with a full powered blast or two, but Kaine is pretty durable and has good recovery time.

Miles even with spider sense has been proven to be able to be tagged by Spidey.

Online
#102 Edited by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@gambit474 said:

You need to shut your mouth Cad. I have no clue? you have no proof..Just because you sit around posting scans of Miles's feats doesn't mean I didn't know about them smart alek. Exactly you didn't read the new comic so you should get over yourself when I said you don't know what you're talking about because Kaine and Wolverine showed how the reacted in the fight in the aftermath. LOL spite thread..I already said if I wanted to make it a spite I would've made it against WWH.

Uh huh, that is why you failed to address Kaines lack of Spider Sense + Miles Invisibility + Venom sting that is guaranteed to work on Kaine durability level + Bloodlusted and will not hold back on Kaine + Spider Sense to Counter Kaines Stealth Suit (If he uses it which he wont as the Other) = easy win for Miles.

You just keep posting irrelevant scans of Kaines durability which is no greater than Venom, 616 Parker, Moega Red, or Scorpion. You clearly are clueless of the feats or you simply acting dumb to prove Kaine wins.

And making a Hulk vs Miles thread is spite as Hulk has greater Durability feats than Venom, Giant Woman, and Rhino combined. Hulk also has inelegance and would easy counter Miles with a T Clap or Shockwave smash. Hulk also has Banner Tech.

IT WAS SPITE! Your not doing a good job to hide your bias.

GJ Cad you show me that you obviously don't read everything I say and are instead talking out of your hind end. I have indeed addressed Kaine's lack of a spider-sense and said that imo he makes him an even better spider-man because skill>easy way out with SS. I changed it to give prep time for miles and changed the version of hulk so you can stfu about it being made a spite..Yes I think you're a crybaby and your argument for Miles winning is retarded,however I did genuinely want to see Miles vs a version of the Hulk. In the end it doesn't even matter what you say Cad..The majority has still ruled in for Kaine

#103 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

Alright, question...Miles has spider-sense...is it as advanced as 616 Peter's who could basically pinpoint and track?

No. It is more "general threat coming at you "at this time.

However Kaine blood lusted and as the Other never uses Stealth, so its moot in the end.

Now, I can get scans of Kaine using the stealth suit in combat (not today, tomorrow if I have time). He has and does use it in fights.

He never uses the Suit as Other at all. This is blood lusted Kaine and as many point out, that means he goes Other.

Also Miles has Invisible Powers rather than a suit. If Kaines suit gets damage, it is over straight up. Stealth Suit with no Spider Sense < Invisble Powers with Spider Sense.

As for Kaine fighting with instinct and no skill, I disagree. He may not be traditionally trained, but he is very skilled and fast. He has taken down teams of skilled assassins, and has plenty of experience fighting people with spider powers (Venom, Carnage, Spidey). Not to mention jumping through a being of pure energy and taking a lightning bolt and coming to within seconds -- not saying Miles could not take him out with a full powered blast or two, but Kaine is pretty durable and has good recovery time.

I meant the Other. If Kaine is blood lusted he will Other (or like Flash, Vulk Out) and as the Other he is all instinct with no control at all.

Miles even with spider sense has been proven to be able to be tagged by Spidey.

Your point is Miles holding back and trying to talk to Peter through the whole battle was tagged. Spider Man was like wise Tagged by the Venom Sting twice with ease!

Second one was a more serious and angry Venom Sting than the light calm one Miles gave first time to Peter.

#104 Posted by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I think Kaine would beat Wolverine, but it would be a dragged out fight. Wolverine Skill as seen on the Vine Battles is scary good and should more than have countered a Stab to the heart.

It makes no sense to me how quick and pathetic that battle was. Grey Hulk vs Wolverine was longer and more impressive!

I agree a fight between Kaine and wolverine would be closer but at the same time I don't think its PIS. PIS and WIS are terms I use when something is completely impossible (spider-man vs firelord, batman vs wonder woman, etc). Kaine beating wolverine quickly isn't impossible. Its unlikely but not impossible. So I wouldn't call the showing PIS.

As for why Kaine dropped wolverine faster then grey hulk its because kaine sliced his heart directly. Grey hulk didn't do that. Kaine basically cut his heart in 2. Without the heart a lot of systems would fail in wolverines body. Kaine used a more precise strike then grey hulk. Basically this is a showing of how sometimes precession based attacks>>>>brute strength.

Anyway. I in no way think Kaine would not own this match if it was vs Ultimate Peter. However their is many factors here.

1) Venom Sting that KOes Omega Red, 616 Peter (When Miles got serious), Scorpion, Giant Women, Rhino, Venom, ect..... Its a instant win with a touch on someone of Kaines durability, as long as Miles is blood lusted and using it at full power.

2) Miles has Spider Sense to negate Kaine's own Stealth Suit.

3) Miles has Invisibility, Kaine has no Spidey Sesne. Surprise attack is easy! Suprise Attack with a touch!

4) Kaine as the Other fights with instainct and no skill as well does not use Stealth Suit. Easier win for a Stealth Venom Sting!

Miles should win this.

  1. I all ready acknowledged this. Maybe it can KO Kaine in one hit but thing is standard battle forum rules state if starting distance isn't specified they begin close. Meaning they are in range for Kaine to end this fight with stingers.
  2. Does Miles have the same feats with it that ultimate Peter and 616 spider-man have? Just because he has the same power doesn't mean it is as strong. Does it tell him which way to dodge like ultimate peters or 616 spider-mans does? Has it been used for tracking? I know it warns him about danger but does it tell him where the danger is coming from? Basically Miles may have spider-sense but that doesn't mean he gets the same sensing feats as 616 spider-man or ultimate Peter.
  3. From what I have seen all though invisibility is a common tactic of MIles, its not something he uses right off the bat. He also states in the prowler fight "that sometimes I have all these cool powers and it takes a while". So it would seem to me that sometimes Miles forgets about the venom sting and invisibility until later in his fights.
  4. Pretty much what @wyldsong said.

#105 Posted by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2:

I think Kaine would beat Wolverine, but it would be a dragged out fight. Wolverine Skill as seen on the Vine Battles is scary good and should more than have countered a Stab to the heart.

It makes no sense to me how quick and pathetic that battle was. Grey Hulk vs Wolverine was longer and more impressive!

I agree a fight between Kaine and wolverine would be closer but at the same time I don't think its PIS. PIS and WIS are terms I use when something is completely impossible (spider-man vs firelord, batman vs wonder woman, etc). Kaine beating wolverine quickly isn't impossible. Its unlikely but not impossible. So I wouldn't call the showing PIS.

As for why Kaine dropped wolverine faster then grey hulk its because kaine sliced his heart directly. Grey hulk didn't do that. Kaine basically cut his heart in 2. Without the heart a lot of systems would fail in wolverines body. Kaine used a more precise strike then grey hulk. Basically this is a showing of how sometimes precession based attacks>>>>brute strength.

Anyway. I in no way think Kaine would not own this match if it was vs Ultimate Peter. However their is many factors here.

1) Venom Sting that KOes Omega Red, 616 Peter (When Miles got serious), Scorpion, Giant Women, Rhino, Venom, ect..... Its a instant win with a touch on someone of Kaines durability, as long as Miles is blood lusted and using it at full power.

2) Miles has Spider Sense to negate Kaine's own Stealth Suit.

3) Miles has Invisibility, Kaine has no Spidey Sesne. Surprise attack is easy! Suprise Attack with a touch!

4) Kaine as the Other fights with instainct and no skill as well does not use Stealth Suit. Easier win for a Stealth Venom Sting!

Miles should win this.

  1. I all ready acknowledged this. Maybe it can KO Kaine in one hit but thing is standard battle forum rules state if starting distance isn't specified they begin close. Meaning they are in range for Kaine to end this fight with stingers.
  2. Does Miles have the same feats with it that ultimate Peter and 616 spider-man have? Just because he has the same power doesn't mean it is as strong. Does it tell him which way to dodge like ultimate peters or 616 spider-mans does? Has it been used for tracking? I know it warns him about danger but does it tell him where the danger is coming from? Basically Miles may have spider-sense but that doesn't mean he gets the same sensing feats as 616 spider-man or ultimate Peter.
  3. From what I have seen all though invisibility is a common tactic of MIles, its not something he uses right off the bat. He also states in the prowler fight "that sometimes I have all these cool powers and it takes a while". So it would seem to me that sometimes Miles forgets about the venom sting and invisibility until later in his fights.
  4. Pretty much what @wyldsong said.

That's why I said it sounds like he's breaking character..Miles forgetting doesn't mean he's going to all of a sudden remember when he's in an enraged state. You don't think clearly when you're bloodlusted

#106 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

I agree a fight between Kaine and wolverine would be closer but at the same time I don't think its PIS. PIS and WIS are terms I use when something is completely impossible (spider-man vs firelord, batman vs wonder woman, etc). Kaine beating wolverine quickly isn't impossible. Its unlikely but not impossible. So I wouldn't call the showing PIS.

As for why Kaine dropped wolverine faster then grey hulk its because kaine sliced his heart directly. Grey hulk didn't do that. Kaine basically cut his heart in 2. Without the heart a lot of systems would fail in wolverines body. Kaine used a more precise strike then grey hulk. Basically this is a showing of how sometimes precession based attacks>>>>brute strength.

OK, I can agree with that.

Anyway. I in no way think Kaine would not own this match if it was vs Ultimate Peter. However their is many factors here.

1) Venom Sting that KOes Omega Red, 616 Peter (When Miles got serious), Scorpion, Giant Women, Rhino, Venom, ect..... Its a instant win with a touch on someone of Kaines durability, as long as Miles is blood lusted and using it at full power.

2) Miles has Spider Sense to negate Kaine's own Stealth Suit.

3) Miles has Invisibility, Kaine has no Spidey Sesne. Surprise attack is easy! Suprise Attack with a touch!

4) Kaine as the Other fights with instainct and no skill as well does not use Stealth Suit. Easier win for a Stealth Venom Sting!

Miles should win this.

  1. I all ready acknowledged this. Maybe it can KO Kaine in one hit but thing is standard battle forum rules state if starting distance isn't specified they begin close. Meaning they are in range for Kaine to end this fight with stingers.
  2. Does Miles have the same feats with it that ultimate Peter and 616 spider-man have? Just because he has the same power doesn't mean it is as strong. Does it tell him which way to dodge like ultimate peters or 616 spider-mans does? Has it been used for tracking? I know it warns him about danger but does it tell him where the danger is coming from? Basically Miles may have spider-sense but that doesn't mean he gets the same sensing feats as 616 spider-man or ultimate Peter.
  3. From what I have seen all though invisibility is a common tactic of MIles, its not something he uses right off the bat. He also states in the prowler fight "that sometimes I have all these cool powers and it takes a while". So it would seem to me that sometimes Miles forgets about the venom sting and invisibility until later in his fights.
  4. Pretty much what @wyldsong said.

1) Ok, I can agree with that. Starting distance be nice to know which way it favors.

2) I think Miles is fast enough to tag Peter 3 times (Venom Sting to shoulder, Kick to face, and VenomSting again Pete) as well dodged some of Peters attacks in the scans I showed of the whole battle. Yes, Mies is fast. In fact he keeps up with Spider woman who is a female clone of peter and proven as fast as Ultimate Peter as well. As for the Spider sense, he shows the exact same feats as Ultimate peter did in earlier comics, I am positive it will get better like Ultimate Petes in time.

3) Blood Lusted, why not? Its how can I win the quickest and best way possible with a kill shot. That is how I see it, all out with no banter or writers writing in crap of tghem not using their abilities to the full extent. As you said it is a VERY common tactic of Miles in character to use the suit and sneak attack.

4) As I saod before, Peter with the superior sense was tagged many times and ultimatly lost the fight. Peter with Way of the Spider and Pre Cog Spider sense. So who cares if Miles was tagged while trying to talk to Peter the whole time?

#107 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 @laflux @jashro44 @god_spawn Well i'll throw in my last 2 cents on this. I'll break it down into parts so I can see this easier.

The main argument for Miles is his Venom Sting which is of course a very powerful tool however there has been some erroneous information. Venom took on the full brute force of the Venom Sting with Miles admitting to putting everything he has into those attacks. So no the Sting is not powerful enough to one-shot Venom. Including the fact that Venom's weakness is electricity this is a good showing on Venom's part:

While I have no doubt this would have a far more profound effect on Kaine there is one thing we have to take into consideration and that is that Miles lacks experience with his abilities. He even acknowledged this when fighting Venom here saying that he should remember what he can do:

This was only 3 issues ago and considering Miles wasn't Spider-man for two of them its fair to say that this is still the state of experience he has. Due to his powers being relatively new to him he has also not learned properly to listen to his spider-sense. He is far from the same level as Peter Parker with this ability. Here he states outright that he knows he's being attacked and that the buzzing is quote "just annoying" inferring that he hasn't quite mastered the ability as spider-sense is far from annoying. Its what keeps you one step ahead of the enemy and by ignoring it you are at a severe disadvantage (again only 5 issues ago and Miles didn't perform any spider-related antics in two of them thus he's still in this same frame of mind):

We saw it again here when Spider-Woman saved him from a grenade something that Ultimate Pete or 616 Pete would have no trouble reacting too:

Spider-sense is all well and good but you have to master and listen to it something Miles has yet to accomplish. So spider-sense in this case is not a big advantage over Kaine as Miles does not use it effectively yet. It is very unlikely that in a bloodlusted situation VS and listening to his spider-sense is something Miles will do as in a normal confrontation he actively forgets or ignores them. In a fight where he's bloodlusted and not thinking straight its even more unlikely.

The next thing is stats. I know not many people will argue that Kaine isn't stronger but he is also faster. There are a few scans to illustrate this point but i'll post the most relevant ones. Kaine is enhanced by an entity called the Other. Before that (between Classic and Scarlet) Kaine was around Peter's level of ability. After being resurrected by the Other Peter said this:

"If feels like i'm moving at full speed for the first time". Given this Kaine is more than likely faster than Peter due to his resurrection by the Other. The best demonstration of his raw speed is here:

The thing about this feat is that the bullets are already in the air and heading towards Kaine and yet Kaine still has the time to tackle his opponent, get back to his feat and turn his opponent to block the bullets. This is a HUGE speed feat when you think that the bullets are already in the air and heading towards him and further enforces the whole Other enhanced speed. There aren't many 616 Peter speed feats that compare to this let alone Miles ones.

I don't need to prove he's stronger as i'm sure not many people will argue against that.

Invisibility is the next thing. Assuming Miles goes invisible off the bat (very unlikely and out of character) and Kaine does the same (this more in character for Kaine who has done it on multiple occasions). What we then have to think of is who finds who first. Miles appears to have an initial advantage here due to his spider-sense but we already ascertained he lacks the experience to effectively deploy it on visible enemies let alone invisible ones. Kaine however has another trick up his sleeve and its this:

Kaine can see through the eyes of Spiders. He used it to scout an entire city for a bomb in a few seconds. By normal standards you are always within 3 foot of a spider and there is an estimated 131 spiders per square meter (feel free to google it) they are of course very small but they are there none the less. Due to his inexperience Miles has been uncovered by making a false step like so:

If a giant woman can see a footstep in a cornfield then surely one of those thousands of spiders hanging around the battlefield would notice Miles's giant invisible foot. Seeing as Miles dependence on his spider-sense is bordering on ignorance this puts Kaine on at least a level playing field if not an advantage. Thats assuming this fight even progresses to an invisible one which is doubtful given Miles's in-character way of dealing with his fights. I'm just exploring every option.

Now Miles could in theory one-shot Kaine but lets not forget this works both ways. Kaine has the physical strength as well as his stingers to accomplish exactly that on Miles. The "Other" stingers induce a paralysis poison that was strong enough to KO a 30tonner in one hit:

Assuming Kaine landed the hit he probably wouldn't even need the poison as a foot long blade through the chest would most likely put Miles down anyway.

Last but not least this is not unfamiliar territory for Kaine. Fighting people with spider-powers is what he did for most of his life. In fact no-one has as much experience fighting Spider-man-like characters as Kaine of has such a good track record. Yes this was back with Classic Kaine but Kaine still remembers all these fights. Aside from the VS Miles isn't bringing anything new to the table that Kaine hasn't dealt with before. Yes his powers were different but he will still know what to expect. He's fought Ben Reilly 3 times, Peter 3 times, Spidercide twice and an army of Spider-man clones during Maximum Clonage. Suffice to say fighting Spider-powered individuals is by far where Kaine has the most experience.

The way I see it Miles's not so effective use of his abilities (especially his spider-sense) is going to cost him. Kaine is faster than him, has a way to keep track of Miles's invisibility, has a vast amount of experience dealing with people who fight with roughly the same powers as Miles and last but not least like Miles he can also one-shot his opponent but due to his speed he is more likely to do this than Miles.

Kaine for a solid majority.

#108 Posted by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah strider that's what i've been saying. Experience fighting spider-men goes to Kaine

#109 Posted by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

2) I think Miles is fast enough to tag Peter 3 times (Venom Sting to shoulder, Kick to face, and VenomSting again Pete) as well dodged some of Peters attacks in the scans I showed of the whole battle. Yes, Mies is fast. In fact he keeps up with Spider woman who is a female clone of peter and proven as fast as Ultimate Peter as well. As for the Spider sense, he shows the exact same feats as Ultimate peter did in earlier comics, I am positive it will get better like Ultimate Petes in time.

Thing is Kaine is faster then 616 Peter. He lacks spider-sense but he also has the other powers. All though they were both not serious I think Peter would have won that fight if he were actually trying to knock Miles out. Seemed to me though he was trying to figure out what was going on. I think there is a bit of a difference between Kaine going for the kill.

Can you upload scans of Miles spider-sense? The feats I have seen seem to just tell him there is danger in the area. Not much else (like where the danger is, where to dodge to avoid the danger, etc)

3) Blood Lusted, why not? Its how can I win the quickest and best way possible with a kill shot. That is how I see it, all out with no banter or writers writing in crap of tghem not using their abilities to the full extent. As you said it is a VERY common tactic of Miles in character to use the suit and sneak attack.

They still think the way they normally do though. For example if I made a thread with a morals off rhino it doesn't mean rhino becomes a genius. Just means he is willing to kill. I'm not saying Miles is an idiot, I was just using rhino as an example. We have a statement from Miles stating that sometimes he forgets about his powers so this tells me that he doesn't use his cloaking or venom sting because its not something he remembers to use right off the bat. Its easier for him to melee. So even though morals are off Miles inexperience is still a factor.

4) As I saod before, Peter with the superior sense was tagged many times and ultimatly lost the fight. Peter with Way of the Spider and Pre Cog Spider sense. So who cares if Miles was tagged while trying to talk to Peter the whole time?

I was referring to what he stated about Kaines skill.

#110 Posted by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 @laflux @jashro44 @god_spawn Well i'll throw in my last 2 cents on this. I'll break it down into parts so I can see this easier.

The main argument for Miles is his Venom Sting which is of course a very powerful tool however there has been some erroneous information. Venom took on the full brute force of the Venom Sting with Miles admitting to putting everything he has into those attacks. So no the Sting is not powerful enough to one-shot Venom. Including the fact that Venom's weakness is electricity this is a good showing on Venom's part:

While I have no doubt this would have a far more profound effect on Kaine there is one thing we have to take into consideration and that is that Miles lacks experience with his abilities. He even acknowledged this when fighting Venom here saying that he should remember what he can do:

This was only 3 issues ago and considering Miles wasn't Spider-man for two of them its fair to say that this is still the state of experience he has. Due to his powers being relatively new to him he has also not learned properly to listen to his spider-sense. He is far from the same level as Peter Parker with this ability. Here he states outright that he knows he's being attacked and that the buzzing is quote "just annoying" inferring that he hasn't quite mastered the ability as spider-sense is far from annoying. Its what keeps you one step ahead of the enemy and by ignoring it you are at a severe disadvantage (again only 5 issues ago and Miles didn't perform any spider-related antics in two of them thus he's still in this same frame of mind):

We saw it again here when Spider-Woman saved him from a grenade something that Ultimate Pete or 616 Pete would have no trouble reacting too:

Spider-sense is all well and good but you have to master and listen to it something Miles has yet to accomplish. So spider-sense in this case is not a big advantage over Kaine as Miles does not use it effectively yet. It is very unlikely that in a bloodlusted situation VS and listening to his spider-sense is something Miles will do as in a normal confrontation he actively forgets or ignores them. In a fight where he's bloodlusted and not thinking straight its even more unlikely.

The next thing is stats. I know not many people will argue that Kaine isn't stronger but he is also faster. There are a few scans to illustrate this point but i'll post the most relevant ones. Kaine is enhanced by an entity called the Other. Before that (between Classic and Scarlet) Kaine was around Peter's level of ability. After being resurrected by the Other Peter said this:

"If feels like i'm moving at full speed for the first time". Given this Kaine is more than likely faster than Peter due to his resurrection by the Other. The best demonstration of his raw speed is here:

The thing about this feat is that the bullets are already in the air and heading towards Kaine and yet Kaine still has the time to tackle his opponent, get back to his feat and turn his opponent to block the bullets. This is a HUGE speed feat when you think that the bullets are already in the air and heading towards him and further enforces the whole Other enhanced speed. There aren't many 616 Peter speed feats that compare to this let alone Miles ones.

I don't need to prove he's stronger as i'm sure not many people will argue against that.

Invisibility is the next thing. Assuming Miles goes invisible off the bat (very unlikely and out of character) and Kaine does the same (this more in character for Kaine who has done it on multiple occasions). What we then have to think of is who finds who first. Miles appears to have an initial advantage here due to his spider-sense but we already ascertained he lacks the experience to effectively deploy it on visible enemies let alone invisible ones. Kaine however has another trick up his sleeve and its this:

Kaine can see through the eyes of Spiders. He used it to scout an entire city for a bomb in a few seconds. By normal standards you are always within 3 foot of a spider and there is an estimated 131 spiders per square meter (feel free to google it) they are of course very small but they are there none the less. Due to his inexperience Miles has been uncovered by making a false step like so:

If a giant woman can see a footstep in a cornfield then surely one of those thousands of spiders hanging around the battlefield would notice Miles's giant invisible foot. Seeing as Miles dependence on his spider-sense is bordering on ignorance this puts Kaine on at least a level playing field if not an advantage. Thats assuming this fight even progresses to an invisible one which is doubtful given Miles's in-character way of dealing with his fights. I'm just exploring every option.

Now Miles could in theory one-shot Kaine but lets not forget this works both ways. Kaine has the physical strength as well as his stingers to accomplish exactly that on Miles. The "Other" stingers induce a paralysis poison that was strong enough to KO a 30tonner in one hit:

Assuming Kaine landed the hit he probably wouldn't even need the poison as a foot long blade through the chest would most likely put Miles down anyway.

Last but not least this is not unfamiliar territory for Kaine. Fighting people with spider-powers is what he did for most of his life. In fact no-one has as much experience fighting Spider-man-like characters as Kaine of has such a good track record. Yes this was back with Classic Kaine but Kaine still remembers all these fights. Aside from the VS Miles isn't bringing anything new to the table that Kaine hasn't dealt with before. Yes his powers were different but he will still know what to expect. He's fought Ben Reilly 3 times, Peter 3 times, Spidercide twice and an army of Spider-man clones during Maximum Clonage. Suffice to say fighting Spider-powered individuals is by far where Kaine has the most experience.

The way I see it Miles's not so effective use of his abilities (especially his spider-sense) is going to cost him. Kaine is faster than him, has a way to keep track of Miles's invisibility, has a vast amount of experience dealing with people who fight with roughly the same powers as Miles and last but not least like Miles he can also one-shot his opponent but due to his speed he is more likely to do this than Miles.

Kaine for a solid majority.

I agree with everything except maybe the part about the spiders and Kaine being able to detect Miles while invisible. IIRC the ability to talk to spiders does require concentration and as the area of the fight isn't specified it does take place in a city. So I don't think Kaine will spot foot prints.

All though I do agree with everything else and this post does sum up my thoughts.

#111 Edited by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I was just exploring all possibilities. If this did go to an invisible fight (unlikely) Kaine isn't going to jump around all over the place just hoping to fall upon Miles. The same thing for Miles both will use the tools at their disposal. The last time Kaine needed to track down something he couldn't find/see he used this ability. If they are both invisible looking for the other then surely that gives Kaine time to stand and concentrate while invisible to find Miles. Not to mention this would probably limit Kaine's appearance on Miles's radar as he would no longer be a direct threat and since he's still new to using spider-sense it makes it even more likely.

#112 Edited by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I was just exploring all possibilities. If this did go to an invisible fight (unlikely) Kaine isn't going to jump around all over the place just hoping to fall upon Miles. The same thing for Miles both will use the tools at their disposal. The last Kaine needed to track down something he couldn't find/see he used this ability If they are both invisible looking for the other then surely that gives Kaine time to stand and concentrate while invisible to find Miles. Not to mention this would probably limit Kaine's appearance on Miles's radar as he would no longer be a direct threat and since he's still new to using spider-sense it makes it even more likely.

True but in a city environment there wont be any foot prints for the spiders to see. I don't think the fight will drag out that long granted so I don't think it will come to that. All though it could be hard for either to detect the other.

#113 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I never said it would be easy but with the amount of spiders there are about and their size a foot step would sound like a thunderclap and dust that might not be seen by a human would be the size of hail stones or small rocks to their scale. A tiny spider would be able to see any dust kicked up by a footstep very clearly due to their size.

#114 Posted by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I never said it would be easy but with the amount of spiders there are about and their size a foot step would sound like a thunderclap and dust that might not be seen by a human would be the size of hail stones or small rocks to their scale. A tiny spider would be able to see any dust kicked up by a footstep very clearly due to their size.

Thats true.

#115 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

BTW alot of those scans are lowballing wont you say? Like spider Woman saving him? He was dealing with other foes, is Wolverine having back up here? No.

Carnage Venom is not Venom. Carnage was not weak to Electricity at all, why should Carnage Venom? That is not logical.

Venom is weak to Electricity. Carnage was not! Carnage Merge with Venom. Thus there is no proof Venom Carnage is weak to Electricity.

Which goes to show how powerful the Venom Blast is.

#116 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate thread with an oversaturation of scans? Didn't see that coming...

#117 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@strider92 said:

@jashro44: I never said it would be easy but with the amount of spiders there are about and their size a foot step would sound like a thunderclap and dust that might not be seen by a human would be the size of hail stones or small rocks to their scale. A tiny spider would be able to see any dust kicked up by a footstep very clearly due to their size.

Thats true.

That is silly as Miles bloodlusted be going full throttle, not waiting for Kaine to track him.

Ultimate thread with an oversaturation of scans? Didn't see that coming...

Spoken like a true hater.

#118 Edited by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@jashro44:

I addressed the Venom Sting and Venom. Carnage Venom is not Venom. Carnage was not weak to Electricity at all, why should Carnage Venom? That is not logical.


So if two things combine they automatically don't have the weakness of the other? Couldn't it just as easily be that they have the same weakness? Its a 50/50 shot at either and its yet to be outright stated that Venom-Carnage has an immunity to electricity and Miles was able to hurt him with an electric based attack. Seems a logical assumption to be able to make.

@cadencev2 said:

BTW alot of those scans are lowballing wont you say? Like spider Woman saving him? He was dealing with other foes, is Wolverine having back up here? No.


How is it low balling? Miles has outright called his spider-sense annoying when it was trying to protect him and paid the price for it. Something like that is something Ult Peter would have been able to avoid due to the fact he had a better understanding of his powers than Miles currently does.

@cadencev2 said:

Also I believe Miles is far stronger than Wolverine.

Let me know when Wolvie lifts a heavier cop car over his head.

Miles is stronger than Wolverine I don't recall saying otherwise O.O

#119 Edited by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Maybe the part about him being unable to hurt venom was. All though he did acknowledge that the venom sting would be extremely damaging so I don't see it that way (even going so far as to say he could in theory one shot kaine). All though is there evidence that venom fused with carnage has carnage's resistance to electricity?

I still think Striders post did outline some parts of Miles character and lack of experience playing a role though. I mean the panel he states he forgets about venom sting is the second time he states he forgets about some of his powers. So I don't see him starting the fight by turning invisible and venom stinging right off the bat. The part about spider-sense seems to be how MIles spider-sense works. I don't know if MIles is quite as attuned with it to the point where he can use it for tracking. It doesn't seem to be that way currently.

Also I did state that I don't think this fight is going to come down to tracking.

#120 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: Maybe the part about him being unable to hurt venom was. All though is there evidence that venom fused with carnage has carnage's resistance to electricity?

I'll just correct this. I never said he couldn't hurt Venom I said that he he only one-shotted him the first time because Venom was confused. In his rematch he took 4 blasts from Miles going all out before getting put down. Was just clearing up the whole "powerful enough to one-shot" deal on Venom who has a very good healing ability.

#121 Posted by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: Maybe the part about him being unable to hurt venom was. All though is there evidence that venom fused with carnage has carnage's resistance to electricity?

I'll just correct this. I never said he couldn't hurt Venom I said that he he only one-shotted him the first time because Venom was confused. In his rematch he took 4 blasts from Miles going all out before getting put down. Was just clearing up the whole "powerful enough to one-shot" deal on Venom who has a very good healing ability.

All right my mistake.

#122 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

haha love how you kids throw around the word "hater" and "hatin" just to boost your self inflated egos.

To be honest, as I've stated before, I think its absolutely obnoxious the amount of repeated scans you drop in every Ultimate thread to prove some superfluous point using A > B > C debating. And I mean EVERY Ultimate thread.

It's pretty clear that you're beyond recognizing your own incredibly biased opinions involving any Ultimate character, so I'll leave it at that.

#123 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @strider92: You may have notice, I posted in the wrong thread with the car scan :P

Carnage is not the same Symbitotic suit at all, a different chemical formula, so i dont really need to show proof do I? Why would a different Chemically and DNA Suit be Electrical Prone? Why Peter felt the need to drag it to a Smelting plant rather hit it with a Electrical line? Carnage has never shown a Eletrical weakness and is not the same as Venom at all in many ways.

Venom is merged with Carnage. He should either have way more resistance if not have the weakness at all any more. Its hard to say conclusively he is weak to it when he is a different being altogether. In fact the fact he is tanking Miles Venom Stings is more proof he is not weak to it rather than LOWBALL saying he is weak to it.

Bamsky.

If Carnage was weak to Electricity, then why did they not Tazer her? They had to figure out a special energy setting to blast her at full power, and she was merely KOed not killed.

Not Buying it at all Carnage is weak to Electricity.

There is no proof of it and evidence against it. Including the fact she is made with a different chemical process than Venom Suit was.

Here Venom on spidey tanks a full blast from Thor. Was Venom Destroyed? Hell no. Is Kaine superior to this hit? Hell no!

Venom still holding it together and was removed by Iron Man from Peter.

Sorry, evidence to the contrary that Kaine is superior than Venom Carnage to Venom Sting.

Venom Carnage >>>> Kaine durability.

#124 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch said:

haha love how you kids throw around the word "hater" and "hatin" just to boost your self inflated egos.

To be honest, as I've stated before, I think its absolutely obnoxious the amount of repeated scans you drop in every Ultimate thread to prove some superfluous point using A > B > C debating. And I mean EVERY Ultimate thread.

It's pretty clear that you're beyond recognizing your own incredibly biased opinions involving any Ultimate character, so I'll leave it at that.

So all your saying is ....

"Waaaagh I hate how you try to prove a point on Ultimates anything, why cant you try to make a lame argument with no proof. After all EVERYONE reads Ultimate Comics and know what your saying!"

Dont post anything if you have nothing to contribute to the debate and whine somewhere else.

#125 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I wasn't comparing Kaine's and Venoms durability. I was just clearing up that Miles should not have been able to one-shot Venom. That seems like a low feat on his part especially as Venom as you just showed took a hit from Thor.

#126 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I wasn't comparing Kaine's and Venoms durability. I was just clearing up that Miles should not have been able to one-shot Venom. That seems like a low feat on his part especially as Venom as you just showed took a hit from Thor.

Is it a low feat? After all both Venom and Carnage was design to heal any wound as well help immuntiy to any lague. Venom was unprepared for it and toughen up with the next few Stings. It could have really hurt Venom and force him to retreat from pain alone. Miles cornered Venom and jsut kept striking, One sting may have been enough. Maybe it was WIS on Venom durability.

A few reasons.

#127 Edited by frogdog (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

So Ultimate Venom can Tank Ultimate's Thor lightening yet miles can ko him with venom sting = Legit

Kaine exploding wolverine's heart = PIS

If this doesn't prove that CadenceV2 has bias against 616 marvel, then I don't know what does.

#128 Posted by Wyldsong (5316 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

Alright, question...Miles has spider-sense...is it as advanced as 616 Peter's who could basically pinpoint and track?

No. It is more "general threat coming at you "at this time.

However Kaine blood lusted and as the Other never uses Stealth, so its moot in the end.

Now, I can get scans of Kaine using the stealth suit in combat (not today, tomorrow if I have time). He has and does use it in fights.

He never uses the Suit as Other at all. This is blood lusted Kaine and as many point out, that means he goes Other.

Also Miles has Invisible Powers rather than a suit. If Kaines suit gets damage, it is over straight up. Stealth Suit with no Spider Sense < Invisble Powers with Spider Sense.

As for Kaine fighting with instinct and no skill, I disagree. He may not be traditionally trained, but he is very skilled and fast. He has taken down teams of skilled assassins, and has plenty of experience fighting people with spider powers (Venom, Carnage, Spidey). Not to mention jumping through a being of pure energy and taking a lightning bolt and coming to within seconds -- not saying Miles could not take him out with a full powered blast or two, but Kaine is pretty durable and has good recovery time.

I meant the Other. If Kaine is blood lusted he will Other (or like Flash, Vulk Out) and as the Other he is all instinct with no control at all.

Miles even with spider sense has been proven to be able to be tagged by Spidey.

Your point is Miles holding back and trying to talk to Peter through the whole battle was tagged. Spider Man was like wise Tagged by the Venom Sting twice with ease!

Second one was a more serious and angry Venom Sting than the light calm one Miles gave first time to Peter.

We have only seen him slip into the other mode twice. Once, he goes full out monster. The other time, the other slipped in and he ended the fight with Wolvie quickly. Now, in the second showing, he still had the suit on, and there is no telling if the other would use the suit or not. I'll agree it's more likely on the not side due to the primal nature of the other, but being bloodlusted doesn't mean mindless or raging. The other was shown to step in when Kaine was directly slashed by Wolvie and Kaine lost it. Kaine isn't starting at that point in this fight.

Now, we can argue the nuances of what bloodlusted may or may not really mean, but from what I have seen, it is more of a willing to do anything and kill mindset. Not one of pure rage or stupidity in combat, at which point, how often is Miles shown to use his invisibility in a rage?

As for getting tagged...the point is, he can be tagged, even with spider-sense. Holding back or not, he had warning the attack was coming, and got tagged. You've even shown a scan where I believe it was ultimate Scorpion (?) was able to grab Miles who had speed and spider-sense. It shows he isn't un-taggable by someone with enough speed and experience. As for the venom blast that took Spidey out...wasn't that over an area web that Spidey laid out? That is less a Kaine type tactic, and more a Peter type tactic. Kaine can and will use webs in combat, but is far less likely to do an area thing like that. He is more likely to use the webs for a quick grab or distraction when in use.

Kaine has and can react to attacks that he is not looking at. So he is most definitely at or better than Spidey in the speed department. Kaine has taken a blast of lightning, and kept on trucking, and has dodged energy attacks and so on. Miles has proven that he can be tagged by someone of at least Spidey's speed, of which Kaine is either equal or greater to (I believe greater, but I'll leave it be).

Now, if the other side of him takes over, we know it enhances him (to what level, we don't know, but he was able to decimate two foes who previously had shown they had the strength and speed to deal with a pre-other enhanced Kaine). Taking out two foes that previously owned him is a good showing. Taking out Wolvie in one move after getting the other triggered is a good showing. Fighting on instinct or not, "the other" Kaine isn't a stupid or clueless/mindless combatant.

With more of a generalized spider-sense, if they both go invisible, he can't track Kaine, and Kaine as Strider brought up does have the spider communication advantage. If Kaine attacks, he'll get his warning, but Kaine has a good shot at ending it in one shot. Miles on the other hand, has to find Kaine, and pour enough juice in it to take him down in one shot (and Kaine has taken a lightning blast that had him out for only a second or two).

Now, can Miles hurt Kaine with his VS? I'll agree that he possibly can, but a bioelectric attack when he has shown to take a hit from Living Lightning leads me to believe that Kaine might be able to take it.

Online
#129 Edited by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I feel like there is probably more to venom/carnage tanking ultimate thors lightning. Miles shouldn't be able to do that venom if that is the case. There seems to be some PIS going on one way or the other.

All though you say Peter was in the venom symbiote when Thor hit him? Its possible thor just held back to much power in fear of hurting Peter. I guess thats possible.

#130 Posted by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

@frogdog said:

So Ultimate Venom can Tank Ultimate's Thor lightening yet miles can ko him with venom sting = Legit

Kaine exploding wolverine's heart = PIS

If this doesn't prove that CadenceV2 has bias against 616 marvel, then I don't know what does.

Sounds about right. Cadence is trying to make it sound like Miles prevailing over Ultimate villains>anything Kaine,Peter,or heck any other Spider-man does in the 616 universe. Cad's like the only one defending Miles so heavily while the rest have either accepted that Kaine won or were convinced by the Kaine supporters' arguments.

#131 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@spydey said:
@gambit474 said:

This is what I'm noticing Miles supporters doing..They're pretty much ignoring everything Kaine has done simply because A.)He has no spider sense yet that has barely held him down at all in his new series,B.)Miles can become "invisible" and has a venom sting,and C.)They pretty much ignore all of Kaine's experience compared to Miles. Kaine's got his experience of his past+what he does now as Scarlet Spider. Have we even seen what a blood lusted Miles is like? Because we have with Kaine and we know what happens when he gets that way

Um no. We acknowledge everything Kaine is capable of and what he's done. What Kaine supporters are refusing to acknowledge is the fact that Miles can do everything Kaine can do and THEN some. Kaine as spikes. Miles has venom touch. Kaine has to get close. Miles as the option of webbing the entire area then simply venom blasting the webbing. KO. Or Kaine will try and web Miles. Miles will electrocute the line. KO. Kaine can go invisible. Miles can go invisible. Except Miles can short out Kaine's suit. No more invisibility for Kaine. While they're both invisible Miles has spider sense on his side along with his speed. Kaine does not. That's just that. Kaine has strength. Miles has shown great durability and strength and seeing as how Kaine has to get close to hit Miles. There's another chance for venom blast. KO.

You apparently missed where I said let Miles go ahead and "KO" Kaine..all it'll do is piss Kaine off and have him transform into his monster self again and kick Miles's ass into next week. Bloodlusted Kaine is not the normal resist the monster Kaine..It's Kaine as in I'm going to tear you limb from limb. Tell me how many times has Miles killed anyone? Compare that to Kaine's track record. How many times has Miles faced Venom and Carnage? Kaine has. No you obviously don't acknowledge what Kaine can do because if you did then you'd understand how badly Miles loses. Miles going invisible doesn't mean anything..Kaine went invisible yet Beast was able to catch him. Miles is inexperienced in this and the only reason he "beat" Parker's spider-man was because Parker didn't take him seriously enough. By your logic I can say the Punisher beats Spider-man because he's been able to take advantage of when Peter doesn't take him seriously enough. Parker is known for making mistakes and underestimating his opponent which is why things like this happen

One upping an unprepared Spider-man is not the same as standing up to a bloodlusted Kaine. Lol all this talk about the venom blast..That's a poor showing for miles if he can only beat Kaine with one move whereas Kaine has multiple ways he can beat Miles. I can't remember if this is indeed Ana but this is Kaine kicking her ass

Spider-sense is overrated. Kaine is a far superior Spider to Miles because he makes up for what he lacks with skill. Heck I even enjoyed Peter without SS more because he had to rely more on his natural skills over getting the easy way out with his SS. I don't doubt that Miles is indeed a good spider-man..But Kaine is way out of his league

Common knowledge a KO is a lost. And him dying and coming back as a monster, is still KO by death or incapacitation... doesn't really matter if he gets back up. Same with Kaine's fight with Wolverine, everyone knew Wolverine was going to get back up, and he could have easily kept fighting until he killed Kaine, or went berserker, Kaine would have died came back as a monster, and fought Wolverine until his eventual death again. (Yes i am aware that the monster is currently with him and he is consciously keeping it at bay, however, that side of him is a side of him he controls, so either way Kaine isn't there anymore). Your previous statement makes no sense as far as this battle goes.

#132 Edited by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1 said:

@gambit474 said:

@spydey said:
@gambit474 said:

This is what I'm noticing Miles supporters doing..They're pretty much ignoring everything Kaine has done simply because A.)He has no spider sense yet that has barely held him down at all in his new series,B.)Miles can become "invisible" and has a venom sting,and C.)They pretty much ignore all of Kaine's experience compared to Miles. Kaine's got his experience of his past+what he does now as Scarlet Spider. Have we even seen what a blood lusted Miles is like? Because we have with Kaine and we know what happens when he gets that way

Um no. We acknowledge everything Kaine is capable of and what he's done. What Kaine supporters are refusing to acknowledge is the fact that Miles can do everything Kaine can do and THEN some. Kaine as spikes. Miles has venom touch. Kaine has to get close. Miles as the option of webbing the entire area then simply venom blasting the webbing. KO. Or Kaine will try and web Miles. Miles will electrocute the line. KO. Kaine can go invisible. Miles can go invisible. Except Miles can short out Kaine's suit. No more invisibility for Kaine. While they're both invisible Miles has spider sense on his side along with his speed. Kaine does not. That's just that. Kaine has strength. Miles has shown great durability and strength and seeing as how Kaine has to get close to hit Miles. There's another chance for venom blast. KO.

You apparently missed where I said let Miles go ahead and "KO" Kaine..all it'll do is piss Kaine off and have him transform into his monster self again and kick Miles's ass into next week. Bloodlusted Kaine is not the normal resist the monster Kaine..It's Kaine as in I'm going to tear you limb from limb. Tell me how many times has Miles killed anyone? Compare that to Kaine's track record. How many times has Miles faced Venom and Carnage? Kaine has. No you obviously don't acknowledge what Kaine can do because if you did then you'd understand how badly Miles loses. Miles going invisible doesn't mean anything..Kaine went invisible yet Beast was able to catch him. Miles is inexperienced in this and the only reason he "beat" Parker's spider-man was because Parker didn't take him seriously enough. By your logic I can say the Punisher beats Spider-man because he's been able to take advantage of when Peter doesn't take him seriously enough. Parker is known for making mistakes and underestimating his opponent which is why things like this happen

One upping an unprepared Spider-man is not the same as standing up to a bloodlusted Kaine. Lol all this talk about the venom blast..That's a poor showing for miles if he can only beat Kaine with one move whereas Kaine has multiple ways he can beat Miles. I can't remember if this is indeed Ana but this is Kaine kicking her ass

Spider-sense is overrated. Kaine is a far superior Spider to Miles because he makes up for what he lacks with skill. Heck I even enjoyed Peter without SS more because he had to rely more on his natural skills over getting the easy way out with his SS. I don't doubt that Miles is indeed a good spider-man..But Kaine is way out of his league

Common knowledge a KO is a lost. And him dying and coming back as a monster, is still KO by death or incapacitation... doesn't really matter if he gets back up. Same with Kaine's fight with Wolverine, everyone knew Wolverine was going to get back up, and he could have easily kept fighting until he killed Kaine, or went berserker, Kaine would have died came back as a monster, and fought Wolverine until his eventual death again. (Yes i am aware that came monster is currently with him and he is consciously keeping it at bay, however, that side of him is a side of him he controls, so either way Kaine isn't there anymore). Your previous statement makes no sense as far as this battle goes.

Even if Kaine loses the fight..Kaine may lose the battle but Miles will lose the war I should say. Miles Ko's normal Kaine..Monster Kaine comes back and kills Miles. Of course Wolverine's going to get back up..Unless someone was living under a rock in all the years he's been around everyone knows wolv's got a healing factor. Miles is not going to beat Kaine. As I mentioned before Kaine's about to take on Superior spider-man here in about 2 issues so if Kaine fares well against SpOCK..Half of the Miles supporters' argument gets thrown out of the window over Kaine losing against someone who has a spider-sense. I don't even care about Wolv vs Kaine..Kaine vs SpOCK is going to be the real test

#133 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@frogdog said:

So Ultimate Venom can Tank Ultimate's Thor lightening yet miles can ko him with venom sting = Legit

Kaine exploding wolverine's heart = PIS

If this doesn't prove that CadenceV2 has bias against 616 marvel, then I don't know what does.

Ummm... what are you talking about? Venom was KOed by Thor... duh.

Now you just look silly in trying to make me sound contradicting.

@frogdog said:

So Ultimate Venom can Tank Ultimate's Thor lightening yet miles can ko him with venom sting = Legit

Kaine exploding wolverine's heart = PIS

If this doesn't prove that CadenceV2 has bias against 616 marvel, then I don't know what does.

Sounds about right. Cadence is trying to make it sound like Miles prevailing over Ultimate villains>anything Kaine,Peter,or heck any other Spider-man does in the 616 universe. Cad's like the only one defending Miles so heavily while the rest have either accepted that Kaine won or were convinced by the Kaine supporters' arguments.

And you sound beyond silly since we started this ride. Love how you try to latch on anyone trying to misinterpret my post.

Fail.

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: I feel like there is probably more to venom/carnage tanking ultimate thors lightning. Miles shouldn't be able to do that venom if that is the case. There seems to be some PIS going on one way or the other.

All though you say Peter was in the venom symbiote when Thor hit him? Its possible thor just held back to much power in fear of hurting Peter. I guess thats possible.

WTF!? Where did I say Venom Tanked Thor's Lighting? I said he was still holding it together and then was removed by Iron Man! He was KOed.

My point was he is not so weak to Electricity where his durability is lower than Kaines which was my point.

All of you kinda read that how ya wanted to read it.

#134 Edited by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol Cad trying to tell me I fail when he was the goomba saying crap like Kerrigan gets stomped in my other thread..You obviously have no clue as to what you're talking about Cad and it's apparent to not only me but others that a good majority of your argument is biased. Kaine's experience means more then anything you bring up. You're pulling at straws

#135 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol Cad trying to tell me I fail when he was the goomba saying crap like Kerrigan gets stomped in my other thread..You obviously have no clue as to what you're talking about Cad and it's apparent to not only me but others that a good majority of your argument is biased. Kaine's experience means more then anything you bring up. You're pulling at straws

Actually no, once someone showed how powerful Kerrigan has became, I agreed.

As for pulling straws, I made points you cannot logically counter with anything but "nuh uh, he has stats!" which does not get far.

So Failed again.

#136 Edited by frogdog (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@frogdog said:

So Ultimate Venom can Tank Ultimate's Thor lightening yet miles can ko him with venom sting = Legit

Kaine exploding wolverine's heart = PIS

If this doesn't prove that CadenceV2 has bias against 616 marvel, then I don't know what does.

Ummm... what are you talking about? Venom was KOed by Thor... duh.

Now you just look silly in trying to make me sound contradicting.

Do have a habit of not reading what you type?

Venom still holding it together and was removed by Iron Man from Peter.

Sorry, evidence to the contrary that Kaine is superior than Venom Carnage to Venom Sting.

You blatently showed the Venom still standing after Thor hit him with Lightening, and never mentioned Venom being KO'd. My point was that you spent most of this thread crying PIS about kaine exploding wolverine's heart, yet venom taking a shot from is perfecly ok for you.

You did the same thing with the green goblin against 616 spider-man, cry PIS for parker but allow goblin's feat of taking on the Ultimates

#137 Posted by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I am not sure how else you intend me to interpret "he held himself together". And he doesn't look knocked out in those scans either. And I doubt thor hit him with everything he had. I assume ultimate thor wouldn't want to do to much damage to the city so he probably didn't hit him with everything he had.

#138 Posted by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

Lol Cad trying to tell me I fail when he was the goomba saying crap like Kerrigan gets stomped in my other thread..You obviously have no clue as to what you're talking about Cad and it's apparent to not only me but others that a good majority of your argument is biased. Kaine's experience means more then anything you bring up. You're pulling at straws

Actually no, once someone showed how powerful Kerrigan has became, I agreed.

As for pulling straws, I made points you cannot logically counter with anything but "nuh uh, he has stats!" which does not get far.

So Failed again.

Lol just because you ignore them with your bias doesn't mean I'm sitting here bringing up stats. You are the only one who has failed and you will continue to keep failing because Miles could never,in a chris jericho voice, EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR beat Kaine. Like I said before the OP didn't even specify which version of Kaine it is so I can easily use the old Kaine and dominate Miles with him thus making everything you say irrelevant. Not saying that what you said wasn't irrelevant before,just that it'd be even more so now. More people here are disagreeing with you then there are ones agreeing

#139 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

There's a vast difference between presenting a lame argument and providing relevant scans without overwhelming people with an overabundance of scans. All you do is low ball characters going against your beloved Ultimate folk. Not to mention you're incredibly rude to any member that debates against you, so clearly there's something personal you hold with these fictional characters.

My contribution? Criticizing your terrible debating techniques. Deal with it. Or stop replying. And you wanna know why no one is as infatuated with Ultimate universe as you are? Because its a terribly written universe (apart from Ultimates 1 and 2).

#140 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: I am not sure how else you intend me to interpret "he held himself together". And he doesn't look knocked out in those scans either. And I doubt thor hit him with everything he had. I assume ultimate thor wouldn't want to do to much damage to the city so he probably didn't hit him with everything he had.

... Ultimate Thor hit him pretty hard with a Lightning Bolt. This is Ultimate Thor who Lightnings Police.

So yeah. He hit Venom with a five foot wide L Bolt. That is more electricity and power than a Power line that Spider Man hit Venom with.

By held himself together meant Venom did not explode or melted like people suggest when hit with Electricity. He does not fall apart like 616 Venom hit with smaller in scale and power Sonics.

That is what I meant.

@frogdog said:

Do have a habit of not reading what you type?

Venom still holding it together and was removed by Iron Man from Peter.

Sorry, evidence to the contrary that Kaine is superior than Venom Carnage to Venom Sting.

You blatently showed the Venom still standing after Thor hit him with Lightening, and never mentioned Venom being KO'd. My point was that you spent most of this thread crying PIS about kaine exploding wolverine's heart, yet venom taking a shot from is perfecly ok for you.

You did the same thing with the green goblin against 616 spider-man, cry PIS for parker but allow goblin's feat of taking on the Ultimates

Yeah I read it right. You all mistook its meaning completely.

Look at the scan, Venom Blacked out and as I said Iron man removed the Symbiot on Peter.

Where did I say Venom was unaffected?

As for wolverine PIS feat, it was. Here is good proof.

Wolverine heart should be burned to hell, but he keeps going.

Wolverine is missing ALL his vital Organs, still not KOed.

So how should I not considered Kaine heart stab that KOed Wolverine as PIS?

Instead of trying to discredit me and emberassed yourselves, come with some feats on why Kaine beats the Invisible Miles with one touch Win.

Or keep derailing the thread to try and discredit me. Whatever you think makes you look smart.

#141 Posted by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine also took a leg off of Harvester, who was practically invisible (as admitted by Kaine himself) and moves much faster than Miles.

#142 Posted by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

... Ultimate Thor hit him pretty hard with a Lightning Bolt. This is Ultimate Thor who Lightnings Police.

So yeah. He hot Venom with a five foot wide L botl. That is more electricity and power than a Power line that Spider man hit venom with.

By held himself together meant Venom did not explode or melted like people suggest when hit with Electricity. He does not fall apart like 616 Venom hit with smaller in scale and power Sonics.

That is what I meant.

Doesn't look like ultimate thor blasted venom with that much force as in the scan you posted. I never said ultimate thor was incapable of blasting venom with much power. I just said I don't think he did in that scan. Its hard to quantify how hard venom blasted venom in that scan. We both agree thor hit him with no where near his full power correct? So we would have to quantify how hard he blasted venom in that scan which is hard to do.

#143 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2:

... Ultimate Thor hit him pretty hard with a Lightning Bolt. This is Ultimate Thor who Lightnings Police.

So yeah. He hot Venom with a five foot wide L botl. That is more electricity and power than a Power line that Spider man hit venom with.

By held himself together meant Venom did not explode or melted like people suggest when hit with Electricity. He does not fall apart like 616 Venom hit with smaller in scale and power Sonics.

That is what I meant.

Doesn't look like ultimate thor blasted venom with that much force as in the scan you posted. I never said ultimate thor was incapable of blasting venom with much power. I just said I don't think he did in that scan. Its hard to quantify how hard venom blasted venom in that scan. We both agree thor hit him with no where near his full power correct? So we would have to quantify how hard he blasted venom in that scan which is hard to do.

OK lets agree (Cause it is a fact) Thor did not anywhere hit him with full power. Thats more than a given. My point was venom is not so weak to Electric to be killed or fall apart like Eddie Brock with Sonics.

Also I think it is safe to agree (From my Carnage scans and points) how Venom Merged with Carnage could and should tank twice as much Electricity than Venom did in his first showing. This whole Venom is weak vs Electricity is all base on one showing in the Earliest Ultimate Spider Man comics.

Anyway I think I posted all that is needed in this thread. I think Miles has the "Better" Chance to win due to his power set.

#144 Posted by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

There's a vast difference between presenting a lame argument and providing relevant scans without overwhelming people with an overabundance of scans. All you do is low ball characters going against your beloved Ultimate folk. Not to mention you're incredibly rude to any member that debates against you, so clearly there's something personal you hold with these fictional characters.

My contribution? Criticizing your terrible debating techniques. Deal with it. Or stop replying. And you wanna know why no one is as infatuated with Ultimate universe as you are? Because its a terribly written universe (apart from Ultimates 1 and 2).

QFT

#145 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

For all those who just feel the need to hate on Ultimates.

#146 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

You really need to look up the meaning of "hatin'", because you're using the term incorrectly.

#147 Edited by Wyldsong (5316 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Just to be clear, I personally don't hate the Ultimates. I just don't agree with you=)

Online
#148 Edited by jashro44 (20479 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2:

... Ultimate Thor hit him pretty hard with a Lightning Bolt. This is Ultimate Thor who Lightnings Police.

So yeah. He hot Venom with a five foot wide L botl. That is more electricity and power than a Power line that Spider man hit venom with.

By held himself together meant Venom did not explode or melted like people suggest when hit with Electricity. He does not fall apart like 616 Venom hit with smaller in scale and power Sonics.

That is what I meant.

Doesn't look like ultimate thor blasted venom with that much force as in the scan you posted. I never said ultimate thor was incapable of blasting venom with much power. I just said I don't think he did in that scan. Its hard to quantify how hard venom blasted venom in that scan. We both agree thor hit him with no where near his full power correct? So we would have to quantify how hard he blasted venom in that scan which is hard to do.

OK lets agree (Cause it is a fact) Thor did not anywhere hit him with full power. Thats more than a given. My point was venom is not so weak to Electric to be killed or fall apart like Eddie Brock with Sonics.

Also I think it is safe to agree (From my Carnage scans and points) how Venom Merged with Carnage could and should tank twice as much Electricity than Venom did in his first showing. This whole Venom is weak vs Electricity is all base on one showing in the Earliest Ultimate Spider Man comics.

Anyway I think I posted all that is needed in this thread. I think Miles has the "Better" Chance to win due to his power set.

All right I agree with everything except Miles having the better chance here.

#149 Edited by Gambit474 (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

You really need to look up the meaning of "hatin'", because you're using the term incorrectly.

Yeah..apparently if you can't force your opinion on someone then all of a sudden they're hating on ultimate Marv. Go figure

#150 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@cadencev2:

Just to be clear, I personally don't hate the Ultimates. I just don't agree with you=)

lol, I meant it for...

You really need to look up the meaning of "hatin'", because you're using the term incorrectly.

This guy.

@texasdeathmatch said:

You really need to look up the meaning of "hatin'", because you're using the term incorrectly.

Yeah..apparently if you can't force your opinion on someone then all of a sudden they're hating on ultimate Marv. Go figure

And this guy. With his Hulk Spite thread that he dragged out.

@jashro44 said:

All right I agree with everything except Miles having the better chance here.

Till next time :)