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#1 Posted by ZaynonR (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Blood Lusted

New York City

Who Wins?

#2 Posted by laflux (15935 posts) - - Show Bio

If Bloodlusted Miles doesn't really stand a chance.......

#3 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

If Bloodlusted Miles doesn't really stand a chance.......

This. He may get a lucky shot in with his Venom blast for a win or so but otherwise Kaine tears him apart bloodlusted.

#4 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine would one shot Miles, and it wouldn't even be hard

#5 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

If Bloodlusted Miles doesn't really stand a chance.......

like kaine needs to be bloodlust to beat miles, miles is really really weak

#6 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine owns him.

#7 Posted by fury714 (589 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight belongs to Kaine. Experience-wise he also has an edge, plus he recently got in touch with The Other.

#8 Edited by dondave (37432 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine

#9 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4415 posts) - - Show Bio
@laflux said:

If Bloodlusted Miles doesn't really stand a chance.......

#10 Posted by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

Are we taking into account that Miles has beaten (parker) Spider-Man once already?

#11 Posted by jashro44 (21732 posts) - - Show Bio

Are we taking into account that Miles has beaten (parker) Spider-Man once already?

Peter didn't throw a single punch and was just trying to talk to Miles. He would have won without much trouble had he been serious...

#12 Posted by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@spiderbuck said:

Are we taking into account that Miles has beaten (parker) Spider-Man once already?

Peter didn't throw a single punch and was just trying to talk to Miles. He would have won without much trouble had he been serious...

hmmm... ok. that's not how I remember it.

#13 Edited by laflux (15935 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck said:

Are we taking into account that Miles has beaten (Parker) Spider-Man once already?

Yes. We also have to take into account Kaine is stronger, more durable and has a higher pain threshold than Peter (who is stronger and more durable than Miles as well as having a superhuman resilience to pain in the first place). Also the OP mentioned that Kaine is Bloodlusted, so he will be using his superior stats to the full on Miles. Peter was questioning Miles and had the flu, and still had the upper-hand over Miles (he stopped him from falling from a skyscraper with webbing). Miles only won when Peter removed his mask and made him made mad causing him to perform an omnidirectional Venom Blast through the webbing. You also have to remember that Kaine can turn invisible too, and mix up his attacks with Stingers (which were able to put down Logan with a stab to the heart) and the Mark of Kaine.

@theacidskull said:

like kaine needs to be bloodlust to beat miles.

Kaine would one shot Miles

I think Kaine would take a majority over Miles regardless of Morals, But I only think he comes close to being stomping if there was morals off. Kaine doesn't fight his hardest against kids- Venom Stingers and Acid Touch would be out of the question for a start, and Miles' invisibility, Venom Sting and superhuman stats of his own, should give Scarlet Spider a somewhat decent workout.

@theacidskull said:

miles is really really weak

Ultimate Giant Woman disagrees >:D

#Your not Spider-Man until you knock out a Giant............

#14 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: Pretty sure thats a kick.....anyways Pete has one-shotted far more durable people than Miles and given the whole theme of the fight (Peter even savinf Miles at one point) there's no way he was playing serious. Heck in the first scan you posted he tries to grab Miles to restrain him. If he had wanted to hurt him he could have just punched him.

Peter was going easy. Especially seeing as Mile's uncle gave him a good fight someone both Kaine and Peter would put down without much hassle.

#15 Posted by jashro44 (21732 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: I did forget the kick. Regardless Peter wasn't going full out. He was able to remove Miles mask pretty easily and Miles wasn't fast enough to stop him. Miles ended up surprising Peter with a venom sting when Peter was thinking.

#16 Posted by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: Pretty sure thats a kick.....

I hate responses like this. You know exactly what I meant. For an example of how to properly respond and rebut see @jashro44

@fury714 said:

This fight belongs to Kaine. Experience-wise he also has an edge, plus he recently got in touch with The Other.

I'm inclined to agree at this point. Can you expand on this a bit and also what is the Mark of Kaine?

#17 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

@spiderbuck: Pretty sure thats a kick.....

I hate responses like this. You know exactly what I meant. For an example of how to properly respond and rebut see @jashro44

Only stating the obvious!

#18 Edited by Blood_Red_Rage (508 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine takes this. Miles has yet to reach his peak though, still just a kid.

#19 Posted by Immortal777 (7586 posts) - - Show Bio

I see Kaine winning regardless of Morals or blood lust.

#20 Edited by Spydey (401 posts) - - Show Bio

People sleep on Miles so hard it's not even funny.

Kaine's at a lost hear because he lacks spider-sense which would help him GREATLY. Especially against someone like Miles who's just as fast, has SS on top of it, can go invisible and has venom blast. And he can use all of these abilities at the same time.

Miles has shown he can handle his own against several trained soldiers. Knocked out a giant Cassie. His Venom blast was able to take down Scorpion who proved to be HIGHLY durable. And is incredibly quick and agile.

The venom blast is going to bring Kaine down. That's a fact.

#21 Posted by Twisted246 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Kaine. Idk if some of these people have been reading Scarlet Spider lately but Kaine is no pushover. Blood lusted imo means Kaine can easily turn into that monster form of his again that he achieved when he finally accepted being a "monster." Miles would stand no chance against that

#22 Posted by jashro44 (21732 posts) - - Show Bio

@spydey said:

People sleep on Miles so hard it's not even funny.

Kaine's at a lost hear because he lacks spider-sense which would help him GREATLY. Especially against someone like Miles who's just as fast, has SS on top of it, can go invisible and has venom blast. And he can use all of these abilities at the same time.

Miles has shown he can handle his own against several trained soldiers. Knocked out a giant Cassie. His Venom blast was able to take down Scorpion who proved to be HIGHLY durable. And is incredibly quick and agile.

The venom blast is going to bring Kaine down. That's a fact.

Kaine makes up for his lack of spider-sense with the ability to one shot Miles with his stingers. If Peter was able to web Miles mask off his face so fast he wasn't able to react I don't see why kaine couldn't do something similar with his stingers, considering his powers have been confirmed to be at the same level Peter was during the other (meaning he is slightly faster then Peter).

He doesn't need spider-sense since standard battle forum rules state that if starting distance isn't specified they begin close so I don't see why Kaine wouldn't be able to tag Miles right off the bat as he is likely faster. And even if Miles does turn invisible Kaine has very sharp senses (pretty sure there slightly enhanced). He was able to hear both a rifle bullet and a arrow fly through the air so he might not be totally screwed even if Miles does turn invisible. Miles simply lacks the feats to win this fight.

#23 Posted by New_World_Order (13189 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine

#24 Edited by ZaynonR (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine has a hightened spider sence... he can see pieces of the future... and he has also knocked out the Rhino. Just wanted to put that out there...

He also Took out Wolverine and The Xmen with the help of Humming Bird

#25 Posted by Spydey (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@zaynonr said:

Kaine has a hightened spider sence... he can see pieces of the future... and he has also knocked out the Rhino. Just wanted to put that out there...

He also Took out Wolverine and The Xmen with the help of Humming Bird

I'm sorry...what? Kaine himself has said time and time again, he doesn't have spider-sense. Secondly, Wolverine is visible.

@jashro44 said:

@spydey said:

People sleep on Miles so hard it's not even funny.

Kaine's at a lost hear because he lacks spider-sense which would help him GREATLY. Especially against someone like Miles who's just as fast, has SS on top of it, can go invisible and has venom blast. And he can use all of these abilities at the same time.

Miles has shown he can handle his own against several trained soldiers. Knocked out a giant Cassie. His Venom blast was able to take down Scorpion who proved to be HIGHLY durable. And is incredibly quick and agile.

The venom blast is going to bring Kaine down. That's a fact.

Kaine makes up for his lack of spider-sense with the ability to one shot Miles with his stingers. If Peter was able to web Miles mask off his face so fast he wasn't able to react I don't see why kaine couldn't do something similar with his stingers, considering his powers have been confirmed to be at the same level Peter was during the other (meaning he is slightly faster then Peter).

He doesn't need spider-sense since standard battle forum rules state that if starting distance isn't specified they begin close so I don't see why Kaine wouldn't be able to tag Miles right off the bat as he is likely faster. And even if Miles does turn invisible Kaine has very sharp senses (pretty sure there slightly enhanced). He was able to hear both a rifle bullet and a arrow fly through the air so he might not be totally screwed even if Miles does turn invisible. Miles simply lacks the feats to win this fight.

And if Miles was able to leap frog over Pete several times every time Pete tried to grab him, I don't see why Miles couldn't do the same. Or how Miles has dodged countless bullet fire from all angles, proving he's just as fast as Kaine and has his spider-sense. All it takes is one Venom Blast to put Kaine down. Just like it did when Miles fought Scorpion(Who's so durable he's bullet proof and took several knives to his face and body like they were grapes). Kaine's going up against someone who's just as fast and can go invisible. I'm trying to figure out where you're getting he can hear a rifle bullet and arrow fly, because if you're talking about the arc where he took on those two assassins, I see no mentioning of him hearing any bullets or arrows. He could have just heard the bow itself and that's what prompted him to turn around.

Even Ana Kravinoff was able to tag him the one time she needed to slow him down. So I'd expect the same of Miles.

Number of feats doesn't matter. It's the type of feats. And they're quality enough.

#26 Edited by Gambit474 (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

@spydey said:

@zaynonr said:

Kaine has a hightened spider sence... he can see pieces of the future... and he has also knocked out the Rhino. Just wanted to put that out there...

He also Took out Wolverine and The Xmen with the help of Humming Bird

I'm sorry...what? Kaine himself has said time and time again, he doesn't have spider-sense. Secondly, Wolverine is visible.

@jashro44 said:

@spydey said:

People sleep on Miles so hard it's not even funny.

Kaine's at a lost hear because he lacks spider-sense which would help him GREATLY. Especially against someone like Miles who's just as fast, has SS on top of it, can go invisible and has venom blast. And he can use all of these abilities at the same time.

Miles has shown he can handle his own against several trained soldiers. Knocked out a giant Cassie. His Venom blast was able to take down Scorpion who proved to be HIGHLY durable. And is incredibly quick and agile.

The venom blast is going to bring Kaine down. That's a fact.

Kaine makes up for his lack of spider-sense with the ability to one shot Miles with his stingers. If Peter was able to web Miles mask off his face so fast he wasn't able to react I don't see why kaine couldn't do something similar with his stingers, considering his powers have been confirmed to be at the same level Peter was during the other (meaning he is slightly faster then Peter).

He doesn't need spider-sense since standard battle forum rules state that if starting distance isn't specified they begin close so I don't see why Kaine wouldn't be able to tag Miles right off the bat as he is likely faster. And even if Miles does turn invisible Kaine has very sharp senses (pretty sure there slightly enhanced). He was able to hear both a rifle bullet and a arrow fly through the air so he might not be totally screwed even if Miles does turn invisible. Miles simply lacks the feats to win this fight.

And if Miles was able to leap frog over Pete several times every time Pete tried to grab him, I don't see why Miles couldn't do the same. Or how Miles has dodged countless bullet fire from all angles, proving he's just as fast as Kaine and has his spider-sense. All it takes is one Venom Blast to put Kaine down. Just like it did when Miles fought Scorpion(Who's so durable he's bullet proof and took several knives to his face and body like they were grapes). Kaine's going up against someone who's just as fast and can go invisible. I'm trying to figure out where you're getting he can hear a rifle bullet and arrow fly, because if you're talking about the arc where he took on those two assassins, I see no mentioning of him hearing any bullets or arrows. He could have just heard the bow itself and that's what prompted him to turn around.

Even Ana Kravinoff was able to tag him the one time she needed to slow him down. So I'd expect the same of Miles.

Number of feats doesn't matter. It's the type of feats. And they're quality enough.

You do know Kaine can go invisible too right..His suit is a stealth suit. Kaine's also dodged bullet fire so that's an irrelevant point as well..Types of feats do matter and as it's been mentioned Kaine can become monster Kaine and he's did that stinger thing to wolverine. As for "only one venom blast to take him down"..Kaine's died like 2-3 times now and that never stopped him

#27 Posted by Spydey (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: that's his suit. Something that can be short circuited. And Miles can sense his attacks. He can go monster on the whim. He has to be near death just like Peter was when he was in the hospital and just like displayed when he was lying there with his guts spilling out. Lol I don't think Kaine is the one bringing himself back to "life". And the blast will put him down just like I've said 4 times now using both Parker and Scorpion as examples.

#28 Edited by Gambit474 (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

@spydey said:

@gambit474: that's his suit. Something that can be short circuited. And Miles can sense his attacks. He can go monster on the whim. He has to be near death just like Peter was when he was in the hospital and just like displayed when he was lying there with his guts spilling out. Lol I don't think Kaine is the one bringing himself back to "life". And the blast will put him down just like I've said 4 times now using both Parker and Scorpion as examples.

We don't know that Kaine has to be near death for him to go monster..He still hears that "Prey" saying in his head and has to resist it more then ever lately. Doesn't matter if it can short circuit..Miles has no way of making that happen. If venom blast is the only thing that Miles has got in his arsenal to take down Kaine then he's lost this fight long before the first guy made his post. After scrolling the thread I'm seeing that the majority are ruling that Kaine wins

Also you seem to forget one little tidbit about the spider-sense..The clones are immune to it,whether or not it's the same with Miles would be debatable. Besides this is Kaine we're talking about..He was fighting Ben Reily's Scarlet Spider and Peter at the same time in the past

#29 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

One Venom Sting will win this fight. Just saying....

So lets say Kaine webs him. Then miles uses the web as a conductor and unleashes a lethal Venom Sting.

Game. I just do not see why Kaine can attack Miles when Miles has spider Sense (Kaine Suit is non factor), Stealth Suit (Kaine has no Spider Sense), and the all powerful Venom Sting.

Miles has a good chance if he goes stealth and Venom Sting Kaine into a easy win.

#30 Edited by Gambit474 (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

And then Miles winds up pissing Kaine off when Kaine recovers and kills him..Miles just seems lame if he wins by having a one hit wonder. It'd be like people going around boasting about who Magik could beat because of her sword. Also this is peter..Peter talks too much and was trying to ramble the kid half the time..Kaine on the other hand doesn't jabber as much. I find Kaine's feats more impressive then Miles winning if the only thing he's got in his corner is the venom sting..If Kaine gets in close and is able to get his hand on Miles's face then Miles loses too hence Mark of Kaine. Also as one mentioned Miles is a kid..Who has no where near the battle experience that Kaine's got so even with Kaine not having a spider sense he's still taken on groups before and survived. I think some are ignoring Kaine's durability and resilience for Miles's VS

#31 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

Ouch

why do you want to see Miles getting stabbed?

#32 Posted by jashro44 (21732 posts) - - Show Bio

@spydey:

And if Miles was able to leap frog over Pete several times every time Pete tried to grab him, I don't see why Miles couldn't do the same.

Peter wasn't serious in that fight.....He lost to X-23 for the same reason. It doesn't mean X-23 is better then say wolverine, iron fist, or the cat, etc. because she had one fight where Peter wasn't serious. Its the same thing with Miles. There is a huge difference between Peter when he is trying to talk to someone and a bloodlusted Kaine.

Or how Miles has dodged countless bullet fire from all angles, proving he's just as fast as Kaine and has his spider-sense.

Lots of street levelers have dodged bullets. Kaine has dodged lightning. Flash dodged bullets and that didn't stop Kaine from rapidly punching him (granted venom did have the upper hand in that fight but that was because of his durability).

All it takes is one Venom Blast to put Kaine down. Just like it did when Miles fought Scorpion(Who's so durable he's bullet proof and took several knives to his face and body like they were grapes).

And all it takes is one stab to the face with stingers to put Miles down. Standard battle forum rules state that if starting distance isn't specified they begin up close. Kaine is faster so I don't see why he wont land the first hit.

Kaine's going up against someone who's just as fast and can go invisible. I'm trying to figure out where you're getting he can hear a rifle bullet and arrow fly, because if you're talking about the arc where he took on those two assassins, I see no mentioning of him hearing any bullets or arrows. He could have just heard the bow itself and that's what prompted him to turn around.

I am referring to issue 3 when he saved the doctor from a sniper bullet. He had his back turnned and the doctor had his head out the window. And he was a decent distance from a bow and was distracted with fighting the teleporter. And bows don't make a lot of noise. He just needs to know where Kaine is at the beginning of the fight.

Even Ana Kravinoff was able to tag him the one time she needed to slow him down. So I'd expect the same of Miles.

Kaine wasn't expecting her presence so she caught him off guard. And Annas knife had poison which slowed his reflexes down IIRC.

Number of feats doesn't matter. It's the type of feats. And they're quality enough.

I think Miles feats aren't really good enough. His best showing to my knowledge is against Peter but as I said there is a difference between Peter when he is serious and just talking.

#33 Edited by Spydey (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@spydey:

And if Miles was able to leap frog over Pete several times every time Pete tried to grab him, I don't see why Miles couldn't do the same.

Peter wasn't serious in that fight.....He lost to X-23 for the same reason. It doesn't mean X-23 is better then say wolverine, iron fist, or the cat, etc. because she had one fight where Peter wasn't serious. Its the same thing with Miles. There is a huge difference between Peter when he is trying to talk to someone and a bloodlusted Kaine.

Or how Miles has dodged countless bullet fire from all angles, proving he's just as fast as Kaine and has his spider-sense.

Lots of street levelers have dodged bullets. Kaine has dodged lightning. Flash dodged bullets and that didn't stop Kaine from rapidly punching him (granted venom did have the upper hand in that fight but that was because of his durability).

All it takes is one Venom Blast to put Kaine down. Just like it did when Miles fought Scorpion(Who's so durable he's bullet proof and took several knives to his face and body like they were grapes).

And all it takes is one stab to the face with stingers to put Miles down. Standard battle forum rules state that if starting distance isn't specified they begin up close. Kaine is faster so I don't see why he wont land the first hit.

Kaine's going up against someone who's just as fast and can go invisible. I'm trying to figure out where you're getting he can hear a rifle bullet and arrow fly, because if you're talking about the arc where he took on those two assassins, I see no mentioning of him hearing any bullets or arrows. He could have just heard the bow itself and that's what prompted him to turn around.

I am referring to issue 3 when he saved the doctor from a sniper bullet. He had his back turnned and the doctor had his head out the window. And he was a decent distance from a bow and was distracted with fighting the teleporter. And bows don't make a lot of noise. He just needs to know where Kaine is at the beginning of the fight.

Even Ana Kravinoff was able to tag him the one time she needed to slow him down. So I'd expect the same of Miles.

Kaine wasn't expecting her presence so she caught him off guard. And Annas knife had poison which slowed his reflexes down IIRC.

Number of feats doesn't matter. It's the type of feats. And they're quality enough.

I think Miles feats aren't really good enough. His best showing to my knowledge is against Peter but as I said there is a difference between Peter when he is serious and just talking.

Miles wasn't serious in that fight either. Let's just put that out there.

And that takes away from Miles' speed how? Are you saying Kaine can punch faster than a bullet? Peter's also had his nose broken by a door, but have shown he's able to take a punch from some like Frank and not budge.

Okay. No. Kaine was CLEARLY looking at the doctor when the giant red dot was on the doctor's head. He didn't hear the bullet lol. And his head wasn't out of the window, either. Again, the bow makes noise and the bow is visible. Kaine jsut got snuck up on in this last issue at the end. He got in the face with a purse or whatever in that very same issue 3. So, I'm not seeing how he'd be able to take on a spider who can go stealth and put him down with venom blast.

I know he was drugged after. As I said, she tagged hiim the one time to slow hiim down. And he was looking RIGHT at her when she did it. They were face to face when she first struck with that initial strike.

Again, his fight against Scorpion is good enough to show the damage venom blast(that and when he took down Giant girl) can do as well as the strength of his punches. When hydra attacked the Hellicarrier that was a good enough showing of his speed. And serious or not, Pete was still taken down with that very same venom blast against Miles who wasn't serious either.

#34 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I still see no reason why one Venom sting cannot win.

1) Venom Sting a LEGO SET! Proof that it does not just effect Electronics like Rhino.

2) VS Omega Red who is VERY durable.

3-6) VS Scorpion who as seen has extreme Super Human Durability!

1 Venom Sting and it is over. Also Miles has Invisibility and Kaine has no Spider Sense. Guess what Miles has?

His Spider Sense is TRIGGERED by Spider Woman who is a Clone of Peter! So the whole argument of Kaine ambushing Miles is out the window.

This mean Miles has...

  • Spider Sense
  • Invisibility
  • One Touch KO Venom Sting

So while Kaine has superior Strength and Skill, thats it. Some battles of Miles in the first 20 comics alone.

Miles first battle against Electro.

Then Battles Omega Red who gave a season Peter a hard time every time.

Beats the Ringer while learning his own limits still.

Miles fights the Super Human Scorpion and his little King Pin empire. Once he realize the Durability, Venom Sting.

Here Miles proves that he will do what it takes to put someone down, even his Uncle the Prowler who is the greatest Thief in America and proven quite the skilled fighter with the Tinkerers best toys.

This is all first 12 issues. Miles has been training with the Ultimates and Spider Woman before Divided We Fall and since United We Stand! He could not match Kaine, however he has clear advantages and a instant win move. Kaine holding back on this kid is a loss.

#35 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine rather easily.

Moderator
#36 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a close one

#37 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: (snorts) Except one touch and he loses. With No spider Sense and Mile's Invisibility, it is a easy possibility.

#38 Edited by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Except one stab and he loses. With Kaine's sheer physical edge, it is an easy possibility.

Moderator
#39 Edited by Gambit474 (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadence..The "clone immunity to the spider-sense"is obviously going to be different in the ultimate universe so that was pretty pointless of you trying to bring that up. 616 Peter isn't able to detect Venom,Carnage,Toxin,Ben,and Kaine. It doesn't matter if Miles isn't serious..Peter when he puts his mind to it was able to come and beat the crap out of the Kraven family who underestimated Peter. Mad Peter=I feel sorry for the villain

Peter being serious blows Miles out of the water..When he's not serious and being cocky is how he winds up screwing up and having things like The Punisher shooting him in the chest with a shotgun when he tried to pounce on him and smart off in Punisher War Zone. Also the OP already said this is bloodlusted so Kaine's not going to "hold back on this kid" Cadence because all though stuff like that is Peter being serious..for Kaine that's his typical attitude and behavior all the time. Venom Sting? Mark of Kaine is better. Kaine can go invisible too,and the experience edge goes to Kaine because as I said he was taking on both Peter and Ben in the old days. Ultimate Spider-man is inexperienced compared to his 616 self and Miles isn't that much different..Besides some of the ultimate villains aren't even that great as their 616 versions. Sure Miles "might" win with his one hit wonder but Kaine is going to take the majority. Kaine's already had a good showing against Venom and Carnage and he's about to face Superior Spider-man here soon in his series so the Ultimate Spider-man fans aren't really making the best of cases

#40 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474:

If Miles is Blood Lusted he would like wise not hold back a Venom Sting. He would go invisible, and use a all out Venom Sting. Kaine goes invisble and has no spider sense. Miles does and would sense Kaine since Miles is A) From another universe and B) already showed to detect clones.

The advanatages are all in Miles court. he has one touch KO, Invisibility that Kaine cannot be alerted to, has a Spider Sense to counter Kaine's own Camo, and is every bit as fast as Ultimate Peter was.

Kaine has skill and strength. Big deal. Strength <<<<< Venom Sting.

Kaine has skills. Big Deal. Skills <<<<<< Invisibility, same super speed, and no spider Sense to counter.

Miles wins Blood Lusted or not. Even if Kaine stabs him, so what? Miles can still Venom Sting him to KO with a touch.

There is no ON PAPER reason for Kaine to win.

#41 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Except one stab and he loses. With Kaine's sheer physical edge, it is an easy possibility.

Whats easier.

A) Stabbing someone who is Invisible, has insane Speed as Ultimate Peter, and a Spider Sense to detect you while you have none.

OR

B) Venom Sting with a touch of your finger on a opponent who cannot see you while your Invisible and moves as fast as you.

Sorry, B wins IMO as the easier way.

#42 Posted by Saren (25674 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really much Kaine can do to come out of this fight a winner.

I mean, murdering a child should get him life in prison at a minimum.

Moderator
#43 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Kaine statistically exceeds him by a fair margin in each category. So you're option B is only more more effective if he just sits there and lets Miles do everything your saying he will. Since Parker was capable of doing something as simple as pulling the mask off Miles before he could react and doing so when he wasn't even trying to fight, Kaine, being on a higher physical plane than Miles, is even more likely to do a similar result. Especially with his penchant for close combat and since no distance is given, they already start close based on Vine rules and that just adds to the situation heavily in Kaine's favor.

Moderator
#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really much Kaine can do to come out of this fight a winner.

I mean, murdering a child should get him life in prison at a minimum.

He can just plead he was possessed by the Other and it would most likely fly. Marvel logic.

Moderator
#45 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@cadencev2: Kaine statistically exceeds him by a fair margin in each category. So you're option B is only more more effective if he just sits there and lets Miles do everything your saying he will. Since Parker was capable of doing something as simple as pulling the mask off Miles before he could react and doing so when he wasn't even trying to fight, Kaine, being on a higher physical plane than Miles, is even more likely to do a similar result. Especially with his penchant for close combat and since no distance is given, they already start close based on Vine rules and that just adds to the situation heavily in Kaine's favor.

Oy Vee.

Why do you bring up Peter vs Miles? That was before Divided We Fall. During the time frames of Divided We Fall, United We Stand, and post that, Miles has been training and going on presidential missions from Cap. He been training with Spider Woman, SHIELD training, and going on real missions vs Ultimate baddie threats.

Yet you want to bring up Miles fight before all that.... c'mon.

Edit: I have to go to bed, but given Miles is Ultimates and Kaine is 616, Im sure popular opinion will be in Kaine's favor regardless.

Not that Kaine has show to be so superior awesome in skill. He beat everyone as Classic Kaine due to stats, and as his current power set, beaten Wolverine with one IMO PIS shot to the heart. There is many scans of Wolverine tanking far more damage and reduce to skeleton features and stay in a fight!

But again Kaine is more popular. My point is Miles power set and accomplishments in his Comic series (which ran as long as Current Kaines) is just as impressive.

#46 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

The advanatages are all in Miles court. he has one touch KO, Invisibility that Kaine cannot be alerted to, has a Spider Sense to counter Kaine's own Camo, and is every bit as fast as Ultimate Peter was.


I would like to point out a few things. Everyone I can think of that Miles has one-shotted with the Venom touch has had a succeptability to it. Ultiame Venom has a weakness to electricity and Ult Rhine is a mechanized suit that can be short circuited. Mile's touch seems to be bio-electric in origin given what we've seen. Heck Peter even took 2 blasts from the Venom sting before going down. Kaine is far more tolerant to pain than Peter.

@cadencev2 said:

Kaine has skill and strength. Big deal. Strength <<<<< Venom Sting.


Kaine's also got far more experience (Miles does make mistakes consistently. We saw it in his fight with Pete when he almost hurt himself and in his fight with Prowler). His reaction feats are better as are his physical speed feats. Not to mention Miles also consistenly forgets to use his Venom sting. He admitted it in his fight with Venom that he frequently forgets to use it. In a fight when he's bloodlusted and lashing out what chance does heh ave of rememberng it then if he doesn't remember it when clear headed?

@cadencev2 said:

Kaine has skills. Big Deal. Skills <<<<<< Invisibility, same super speed, and no spider Sense to counter.


Kaine's skill isn't really his strongest suit. He's not a particually great fighter. His strength lies in the fact he is FAR more experienced in combat than Miles. Miles speed has yet to be proved equal to Kaine's who is infact faster and stronger than 616 Peter due to the Other.

@cadencev2 said:

Miles wins Blood Lusted or not. Even if Kaine stabs him, so what? Miles can still Venom Sting him to KO with a touch.

There is no ON PAPER reason for Kaine to win.

Miles's pain tolerance is not great. He was KO'd by that explosion during the fight with his uncle whereas Kaine has taken hits from all angles by the Rangers. Heck at one point he was mindraped, burnt, electrifed and thrown through a building at the same time. This only KO'd him for a few seconds.

Miles is not KOing Kaine with one touch with an attack that couldn't do the same to Peter and one he consistently seems to forget to use until plot calls for it.

#47 Edited by Gambit474 (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@gambit474:

If Miles is Blood Lusted he would like wise not hold back a Venom Sting. He would go invisible, and use a all out Venom Sting. Kaine goes invisble and has no spider sense. Miles does and would sense Kaine since Miles is A) From another universe and B) already showed to detect clones.

The advanatages are all in Miles court. he has one touch KO, Invisibility that Kaine cannot be alerted to, has a Spider Sense to counter Kaine's own Camo, and is every bit as fast as Ultimate Peter was.

Kaine has skill and strength. Big deal. Strength <<<<< Venom Sting.

Kaine has skills. Big Deal. Skills <<<<<< Invisibility, same super speed, and no spider Sense to counter.

Miles wins Blood Lusted or not. Even if Kaine stabs him, so what? Miles can still Venom Sting him to KO with a touch.

There is no ON PAPER reason for Kaine to win.

Even if Kaine stabs him so what? So you're going to tell me if Kaine's able to stab Miles right through the heart then it wouldn't matter because Miles can do his omgz venom sting? Miles would be dead and Kaine would just be hurting..That hardly sounds like a victory for Miles to me. Pretty much all your argument goes around is Miles and his VS..That's as bad as the Magik fans who try to treat Magik as being able to beat anyone magical because of her Soul Sword. Lol can someone tell me if this is like a trend with Cadence that he never accepts being wrong? A.)Clones in ultimate Spider-man do not count as the same as 616's. and B.)Miles is overrated because of VS. No on paper reason? Give it up Cadence..Kaine's faced far greater threats then Miles has and him soloing against Ben and Peter already disproved Miles being able to beat him. As I've already said we're about to see Kaine go up against SpOCK which will prove whether or not you're right or wrong about Kaine fighting someone with a spider-sense..Oh and more on the on paper reason..Kaine has gone against Venom and Carnage whereas Miles has not :). Sure let's say Miles hits Kaine with the VS..guess what happens then? Kaine goes off into his subconscious and becomes Monster Kaine as someone already showed before and takes Miles easily. Monster form Kaine>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anything in Miles's arsenal. Kaine's cheated death 2-3 times now..Miles has not. Kaine's a better character anyways. Oh and one last bit..The OP did not specify which version of Kaine it is,so although most are probably using Scarlet spider..We can easily use Kaine's old form too if we choose as old Kaine DID have a spider-sense and as I said..he was soloing Ben and Peter. Experience means a lot and Miles is a rookie compared to Kaine

#48 Edited by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Not that Kaine has show to be so superior awesome in skill. He beat everyone as Classic Kaine due to stats, and as his current power set, beaten Wolverine with one IMO PIS shot to the heart. There is many scans of Wolverine tanking far more damage and reduce to skeleton features and stay in a fight!

Did you read the last two issues of SS? If not, the gist of it was Kaine was shown to be faster and stronger than Wolverine, yet he couldn't keep him down and admitted to almost breaking his hand on his skull and Logan did manage to also tag him, showing speed on Wolverine's part. The Other then possessed him and stabbed him with the stinger, tearing his heart in two pieces, completely severing the organ. Not to mention the stingers give off a potent enough venom that can drop a class 30 character. Wolverine's been shown that if his heart is completely destroyed or removed from his body, he will fall unconscious or in a temporary death state. His heart was blown up in his chest and he regenerated a couple of pages later and was up just fine. Sabretooth tore his heart out in Evolution and he ended up being chained to the roof of the jet, but came to and attacked him. Logan was dead in the newest issue and he regenerated his heart and the only thing off was Beast having to hit his chest which was most likely used for comedic effect. What Kaine showed was consistent. Just because Wolverine has had pieces of bone or his skull showing doesn't take away the consistency of what happened. He's been blown to a skeleton and just laid there btw.... The only time Logan has shown he can fight with his heart punctured is if the organ is still in tact, despite it possibly having a hole from say a bullet or a stab that didn't fully sever it. If you want to get into a Wolverine debate with me, be my guest.

But again Kaine is more popular. My point is Miles power set and accomplishments in his Comic series (which ran as long as Current Kaines) is just as impressive.

So you think, but when at least 3 other hardcore Spider-Man fans, and arguably the 3 best Spider-Man debaters on CV in his many incarnations whether it be Ben Reilly, Kaine, Parker, Ultimate, 2099, etc etc don't it is favoritism?

Sorry, dude, no disrespect but I'm done here if this is the game you're going to play.

Moderator
#49 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't see ANY version of this where Miles wins.

Venom won't do shit considering Kaines healing factor is MUCH stronger than anything we've seen on peter,

#50 Posted by Gambit474 (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

This is what I'm noticing Miles supporters doing..They're pretty much ignoring everything Kaine has done simply because A.)He has no spider sense yet that has barely held him down at all in his new series,B.)Miles can become "invisible" and has a venom sting,and C.)They pretty much ignore all of Kaine's experience compared to Miles. Kaine's got his experience of his past+what he does now as Scarlet Spider. Have we even seen what a blood lusted Miles is like? Because we have with Kaine and we know what happens when he gets that way