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Posted by ThexX (1576 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter Vs. Uncanny X-Force (Archangel is replaced by AoA Nightcrawler)

Uncanny X-Force #19
#1 Edited by venomoushatred1001 (12273 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly don't know enough about Midnighter to leave an answer...

#2 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (35016 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gona go with Mid

#3 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio

How would he fare against Fantomex's misdirection?

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#4 Posted by jashro44 (25422 posts) - - Show Bio

With the door he will just BFR them into the sun.

#5 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13122 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't think Midnighter would even need door.

#6 Posted by Postacrat (515 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to consider a few things about this battle before I make my decision. Midnighter is kinda fly. His abilities are a bit better than any of the members of X-force. I just need to determine if he can take them all! I'll be back with my winner shortly Good Post xX!

#7 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's pure H2H, Midnighter wins. The only one here with any chance at all is AoA Nightcrawler.

If it's all powers, Psylocke solos.

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#8 Posted by LordStoop (513 posts) - - Show Bio

To my knowledge Midnighter isn,t psy-proof so he can be mindblasted or misdirected.

Wouldn't it be fun if he was misdirected to door himself in the sun?

#9 Posted by Fetts (4534 posts) - - Show Bio

Uncanny X-Force FTW

#10 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordStoop said:

To my knowledge Midnighter isn,t psy-proof so he can be mindblasted or misdirected.

Wouldn't it be fun if he was misdirected to door himself in the sun?

The Carrier's doors rarely extend that far. I can only think of 2 occasions when they did, and both were emergency situations. In the Scorched Earth arc, Jack Hawksmoor asked the Carrier to take the Authority to the sun and it swore at him in different languages from across the multiverse.

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#11 Posted by The Devil Tiger (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

Uncanny X-force, but only because of Betsy.

#12 Posted by ThexX (1576 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Devil Tiger said:

Uncanny X-force, but only because of Betsy.

I don't about that because Betsy weakness is when she use one power the other is weaker. Like when she use telepathy to communicate with other members of the team it weakness her telepath powers and then so she can only use much of here telekinesis. But I do see her as a big threat in this fight. And also would Midnighter fall for Fantomex misdirections. But I could be wrong about Betsy.

#13 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder if the misdirect will affect Midnighter. 

#14 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

Fantomex's misdirect can affect 'Nighter. But the problem is that his battle computer tells him what powers his opponents have, so from the start of the battle he'd know that Psylocke and Fantomex are the only major threats. From there, well........he's much, much faster than they are. So he could conceivably knock off Fantomex's head before he could think to misdirect, but in that time Psylocke could mindrape him or at the very least shut off his brain's access to his implants.

Like I said, Midnighter wins a H2H fight, loses an all-out one.

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#15 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane:  
The misdirect and telepathic attacks happen really fast though. Who is to say that while Midnighter is taking that few seconds to run a bajillion different scenarios, Fantomex is not already laying down the misdirect? 
#16 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: I'm not too familiar with Fantomex, but does he usually go for the misdirect at the start of a fight? Midnighter runs through all those scenarios in about 2 seconds at best. Fantomex could certainly win if it's in character for him to use the misdirect first, but if he doesn't usually do that he'd get killed quickly since Midnighter knows what his powers are.

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#17 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@Erik: I'm not too familiar with Fantomex, but does he usually go for the misdirect at the start of a fight? Midnighter runs through all those scenarios in about 2 seconds at best. Fantomex could certainly win if it's in character for him to use the misdirect first, but if he doesn't usually do that he'd get killed quickly since Midnighter knows what his powers are.

Sometimes. It depends on the fight. Sometimes he uses it when he is in trouble, sometimes he uses it at the very start. Sometimes he uses it to not fight at all. 
#18 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14340 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: quite often Fantomex uses his misdirection to avoid voids from the start. In the recnt Uncanny Xforce ARC he has used it a few times before throwin ga punch and as back up when things go wrong. Its very possible he would open a fight using it to be honest on recent form.

#19 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik: I'm not too familiar with Fantomex, but does he usually go for the misdirect at the start of a fight? Midnighter runs through all those scenarios in about 2 seconds at best. Fantomex could certainly win if it's in character for him to use the misdirect first, but if he doesn't usually do that he'd get killed quickly since Midnighter knows what his powers are.

Sometimes. It depends on the fight. Sometimes he uses it when he is in trouble, sometimes he uses it at the very start. Sometimes he uses it to not fight at all.

Hard to tell, then. He wins with the misdirect, loses without it. But there's still Psylocke, so UXF should win this.

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#20 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik: I'm not too familiar with Fantomex, but does he usually go for the misdirect at the start of a fight? Midnighter runs through all those scenarios in about 2 seconds at best. Fantomex could certainly win if it's in character for him to use the misdirect first, but if he doesn't usually do that he'd get killed quickly since Midnighter knows what his powers are.

Sometimes. It depends on the fight. Sometimes he uses it when he is in trouble, sometimes he uses it at the very start. Sometimes he uses it to not fight at all.

Hard to tell, then. He wins with the misdirect, loses without it. But there's still Psylocke, so UXF should win this.

I guess this would depend on the wild card that is Fantomex. 
#21 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like I've seen this fight before... I still say Betsy and Fantomex (at least one of them could get him and I'm thinking it would most likely be both) win it for the team. Switching out one of the characters that's a non-factor doesn't change much.

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#22 Posted by Postacrat (515 posts) - - Show Bio

This is Reminiscent of Batman having contingencies for every member of the Justice league. So Midnighters abilities combined with his astute skill for creating the best possible outcome will always keep him a step ahead of the members of X-force he's fighting. They are all good in their own right, but the only one's that are not as predictable in combat are Fantomex, Deadpool, and Wolverine once his berserker rage kicks in. The rest of the members though good in H2H can and probably will be easy for Midnighter to Anticipate, he'll pick up on their abilities quick and utilize a way to neutralize them. This will not be easy but giving enough time and his knowledge of his opponents, I do believe the Midnighter is too much for X-force. I can elaborate further if asked, but it will have to wait until after I'm off of work!

#23 Posted by JediXMan (31295 posts) - - Show Bio
@Erik said:
I wonder if the misdirect will affect Midnighter. 
Probably. I believe Archangel said that it was a form of reality warping.
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#24 Posted by karrob (4264 posts) - - Show Bio

X-force wins

#25 Posted by MarcusVWario (30 posts) - - Show Bio

None of the Authority can actually door, they need the Carrier to do that and last i checked it wasn't a fighter in this. Midnighter is very resistant to telepathy, he has mental blockers that keep people out of his head for the most part. Even with Fantomex's misdirection I'm pretty sure Midnighter's brain, even if it was misdirected, could realize that this was the case and prepare. However, if X-Force all knew who Midnighter was and had prep time then I'm sure they could take him down but if Midnighter had prep time then he could solo this, but its hard to tell if it was just a random encounter.

#26 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@MarcusVWario said:

None of the Authority can actually door, they need the Carrier to do that and last i checked it wasn't a fighter in this. Midnighter is very resistant to telepathy, he has mental blockers that keep people out of his head for the most part. Even with Fantomex's misdirection I'm pretty sure Midnighter's brain, even if it was misdirected, could realize that this was the case and prepare. However, if X-Force all knew who Midnighter was and had prep time then I'm sure they could take him down but if Midnighter had prep time then he could solo this, but its hard to tell if it was just a random encounter.

Midnighter is not resistant to telepathy. His brain has been manipulated by Jackson King, who's a mid-level telepath at best.

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#27 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6612 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter loses ... badly.

This is a team that doesn't mind killing. So it's on.

Misdirection would wreak havok and TP coordinating and backing the deadly team is overkill.

AoA Nightcrawler is, essentially, a morals off Kurt. Yowzas.

#28 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Midnighter loses ... badly.

This is a team that doesn't mind killing. So it's on.

Misdirection would wreak havok and TP coordinating and backing the deadly team is overkill.

AoA Nightcrawler is, essentially, a morals off Kurt. Yowzas.

I agree that the misdirection and TP make it an easy win for UXF, but AoA Nightcrawler simply isn't fast enough to bother Midnighter too much.

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#29 Posted by JediXMan (31295 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII said:

Midnighter loses ... badly.

This is a team that doesn't mind killing. So it's on.

Misdirection would wreak havok and TP coordinating and backing the deadly team is overkill.

AoA Nightcrawler is, essentially, a morals off Kurt. Yowzas.

I could see Midnighter tagging Kurt. But yeah, Fantomex or Psylocke should be enough. Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.
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#30 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6612 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Midnighter loses ... badly.

This is a team that doesn't mind killing. So it's on.

Misdirection would wreak havok and TP coordinating and backing the deadly team is overkill.

AoA Nightcrawler is, essentially, a morals off Kurt. Yowzas.

I agree that the misdirection and TP make it an easy win for UXF, but AoA Nightcrawler simply isn't fast enough to bother Midnighter too much.

I agree. 1 on 1 Kurt would lose fairly quickly, even morals off, as MN would beat him on predictability moreso than superior speed I believe.

However, teleporting with misdirection and tp backing him? Coupled with Deadpool's infuriating dialogue adding insult to injury (seriously, the only thing Wade can do to MN is wag his tongue. He can't even die properly) and with Wolverine flying up in his face?

Be a bad day for Midnighter.

#31 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

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#32 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6612 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Those wings are not slow. In any case, Warren doesn't have to come in close, he can simply rain down death darts from on high. Without plot, can't see what Midnighter could do about it. He wouldn't dodge and / or deflect indefinitely.

#33 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@MarcusVWario said:

None of the Authority can actually door, they need the Carrier to do that and last i checked it wasn't a fighter in this. Midnighter is very resistant to telepathy, he has mental blockers that keep people out of his head for the most part. Even with Fantomex's misdirection I'm pretty sure Midnighter's brain, even if it was misdirected, could realize that this was the case and prepare. However, if X-Force all knew who Midnighter was and had prep time then I'm sure they could take him down but if Midnighter had prep time then he could solo this, but its hard to tell if it was just a random encounter.

Since the mechanism that lets The Authority teleport is in their bodies and standard we generally treat The Carrier like the sun for Superman, the funky dimension Cyclops' eyes are connected to, the brimstone dimension Nightcrawler bamfs through, etc. They have power granted to them by a connection to a thing that's not present. If you want to stretch it you could always say that since the Carrier is capable of multidimensional travel and exists and numerous points in time and space at once, it's always present. But even more simply, Door's are present unless restricted.

On Midnighter, I wouldn't say there's enough to show his resistance is enough to not be affected by Fantomex.

@CitizenBane said:

Midnighter is not resistant to telepathy. His brain has been manipulated by Jackson King, who's a mid-level telepath at best.

Midnighter has demonstrated resistance to telepathy. Even when taken in by Godhead, he did not act under his control like others did. I count this as a willpower feat but after that incident I believe Angie upgraded their telepathy bugs to be stronger when it came to mind control. I'd have to check. And while Midnighter's brain was manipulated by King, his perceptions weren't affected, he just didn't get input from the device in his brain, so I'd argue it's not really the same thing Fantomex is doing (as if anyone can say exactly what Fantomex is doing). I'd disagree on your assessment of King. He's not the strongest telepath (though he has feats of large scale tp broadcasting, searching the earth for minds, and affecting minds on Earth from space and when it comes to illusions, he's had one up almost 24/7 since his first appearance 18 years ago) when it comes to huge displays, but he's incredibly skilled especially on the small scale (has shown control over individual electrons), and messing with where the mind and tech meet (like he did with Midnighter) is his absolute specialty.

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#34 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Those wings are not slow. In any case, Warren doesn't have to come in close, he can simply rain down death darts from on high. Without plot, can't see what Midnighter could do about it. He wouldn't dodge and / or deflect indefinitely.

I'm willing to bet those wings are slower than Impetus. And Midnighter could always door himself to the sky.

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#35 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Those wings are not slow. In any case, Warren doesn't have to come in close, he can simply rain down death darts from on high. Without plot, can't see what Midnighter could do about it. He wouldn't dodge and / or deflect indefinitely.

He'd have the darts killing other members of X-Force, he'd put one of his own blades or explosive darts in Archangel's eye, or come up with something else. Hellstrike had the exact same battle plan (against Midnighter when his powers were off) and Midnighter beat him anyway. Did the same to Winter in the same story.

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Midnighter loses ... badly.

This is a team that doesn't mind killing. So it's on.

Misdirection would wreak havok and TP coordinating and backing the deadly team is overkill.

AoA Nightcrawler is, essentially, a morals off Kurt. Yowzas.

It's not the willingness to kill that's a problem, it's the psychic powers.

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#36 Posted by JediXMan (31295 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Currently, Archangel is extremely durable. He took a shot to the head and didn't suffer any damage.
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#37 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6612 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Those wings are not slow. In any case, Warren doesn't have to come in close, he can simply rain down death darts from on high. Without plot, can't see what Midnighter could do about it. He wouldn't dodge and / or deflect indefinitely.

I'm willing to bet those wings are slower than Impetus. And Midnighter could always door himself to the sky.

Ya ... he could at that.

#38 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Currently, Archangel is extremely durable. He took a shot to the head and didn't suffer any damage.

Midnighter's slammed through tanks.

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#39 Posted by JediXMan (31295 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Currently, Archangel is extremely durable. He took a shot to the head and didn't suffer any damage.

Midnighter's slammed through tanks.

Really now? Interesting.
 
Still, I don't see him beating Fantomex or Psylocke.
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#40 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Currently, Archangel is extremely durable. He took a shot to the head and didn't suffer any damage.

Archangel does have metal armor on parts of his head. That doesn't mean he has that same durability at all points. He doesn't have armor on his face, for instance.

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#41 Posted by JediXMan (31295 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot
 
True.
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#42 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@JediXMan said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Currently, Archangel is extremely durable. He took a shot to the head and didn't suffer any damage.

Archangel does have metal armor on parts of his head. That doesn't mean he has that same durability at all points. He doesn't have armor on his face, for instance.

True.... But his armor is part of his body. How that works, I have no idea.

#43 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@Buckshot said:

@JediXMan said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Currently, Archangel is extremely durable. He took a shot to the head and didn't suffer any damage.

Archangel does have metal armor on parts of his head. That doesn't mean he has that same durability at all points. He doesn't have armor on his face, for instance.

True.... But his armor is part of his body. How that works, I have no idea.

He has armor in one place and he's more durable in that place, but that durability isn't at every place on his body because that armor, though it is a part of his body, doesn't cover his whole body. Some areas are made of harder stuff and are protected better than others. He's a turtle.

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#44 Posted by rudorudo (54 posts) - - Show Bio

On a side note - Midnighter had trouble predicting the Joker's movements in the DC/WS crossover due to his insanity - the same applies might apply when dealing with Deadpool.

In any case - I think X-Force takes this one due to versatility - Psylocke's telepathy, Fantomex's misdirection, Deadpool & Wolvie's regen.

#45 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudorudo said:

On a side note - Midnighter had trouble predicting the Joker's movements in the DC/WS crossover due to his insanity - the same applies might apply when dealing with Deadpool.

Bad writing. He also had trouble fighting the joker even though he physically outclasses him in every way, can move before he could react, could spit with enough force to blow his head apart, and has demonstrated his ability to beat characters like Hellstrike easily without his combat computer. Bad writing. Batman took down a robot with knock out gas and nearly killed Zealot. Bad writing. Jenny Quantum needed help flying and a space suit to survive off-planet. Bad writing. (And even if it weren't bad writing, it wasn't the Joker. It was something a reality warper made up. Normal rules don't apply. ZZZZZzzzzzzz.)

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#46 Posted by Saren (25083 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@rudorudo said:

On a side note - Midnighter had trouble predicting the Joker's movements in the DC/WS crossover due to his insanity - the same applies might apply when dealing with Deadpool.

Bad writing. He also had trouble fighting the joker even though he physically outclasses him in every way, can move before he could react, could spit with enough force to blow his head apart, and has demonstrated his ability to beat characters like Hellstrike easily without his combat computer. Bad writing. Batman took down a robot with knock out gas and nearly killed Zealot. Bad writing. Jenny Quantum needed help flying and a space suit to survive off-planet. Bad writing. (And even if it weren't bad writing, it wasn't the Joker. It was something a reality warper made up. Normal rules don't apply. ZZZZZzzzzzzz.)

I wanted to spit at the page when I saw Jenny in that space suit being carried into space.

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#47 Posted by Skaddix (3106 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm what level tk does Betsy have

Still Betsy is not an extremely powerful tp and since Jackson King cannot just shut down Midnighter's brain, I don't see Betsy doing it she might knock out his implants though. Still Midnighter just needs to blitz Fantomex first because the misdirection would screw him over and let someone else get a chance to take his head. After that he should be able to dismantle the rest of the team.

#48 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldnt Fantomex or Psylocke just mindrape him?

Dont know.....

#49 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@Erik said:

@Buckshot said:

@JediXMan said:

@CitizenBane said:

@JediXMan said:

Really, Archangel, too. Midnighter shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Too slow to do anything to 'Nighter, who could knock off his head with one swipe.

Currently, Archangel is extremely durable. He took a shot to the head and didn't suffer any damage.

Archangel does have metal armor on parts of his head. That doesn't mean he has that same durability at all points. He doesn't have armor on his face, for instance.

True.... But his armor is part of his body. How that works, I have no idea.

He has armor in one place and he's more durable in that place, but that durability isn't at every place on his body because that armor, though it is a part of his body, doesn't cover his whole body. Some areas are made of harder stuff and are protected better than others. He's a turtle.

I do not disagree on any particular point. I just wanted to feel included.

#50 Posted by utotheg38 (18861 posts) - - Show Bio

midnighter probes them.