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#1 Posted by comicace3 (6069 posts) - - Show Bio

Standard Equipment

1 day prep

Who wins?

FIGHT!

If this has been done before I apologize and Don't need another "welcome to comic-vine crap".

#2 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

Current Spider-man wins with 1 day prep.

#3 Posted by comicace3 (6069 posts) - - Show Bio

My best guess is midnighter.

#4 Edited by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3: Current Spider-man technically put the whole Avengers team under mindcontrol with his prep (including Thor and Hulk). With prep Midnighter is gonna have a VERY tough time beating Spider-man.

#5 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9618 posts) - - Show Bio

I see Midnighter using his door ability a lot here. If Midnighter touches him once, which he is fairly capable, he will port him into space, as once of my friends have just shown me.

#6 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Does Spiderman have the ability to survive in space?

#7 Edited by Dark_Vengeance_ (15006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: A genius who took down the Avengers with prep vs The greatest tactician of history who can predict every single move that you are about to make and determine the best outcome in his head. tough call.

#8 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Strider92: A genius who took down the Avengers with prep vs The greatest tactician of history who can predict every single move that you are about to make and determine the best outcome in his head. tough call.

True I will point out that Midnighter's battle computer does not automatically find a sure way to win. It gives him an approximation and options on how he could win. Here for example:

Midnighter gambled his own life. It allowed him to win but he could have died. The computer does not give him a sure way to win. Midnighter still has to pull it off.

#9 Posted by dondave (38589 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: But i dont see a situation spiderman could put him in that his computer could fail

#10 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Well the fact that he has genius level intellect (good enough to mind-control a whole Avengers team), preparation and pre-cognition might help.

#11 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Exactly, and this Spider-man has probably more than five ways for him to lose, while I will admit that this Spider-man has incredible feats of prep, he had weeks to prepare, while in this case he has only one day. For Midnighter a day is a life time, for him to analyze and even manipulate the outcomes for his advantage.

#12 Edited by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: True but Midnighter has to see his opponent so he can predict his outcomes. For example someone like Zealot he could have gone over a ton of options for because he has seen her and fought her. He's never met Spider-man meaning all his calculations are going to be done on the spot when he meets him for the first time while still effective it lowers his chances considerably.

#13 Edited by Dark_Vengeance_ (15006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: It's a day of prep, meaning that Midnighter can track down and observe Spider-man's moves.

#14 Edited by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Yes but not only does he have to find Spider-man he also has to get a good look at him without triggering his spider-sense which he can't predict unless he's seen him first. Paradox ftw!

#15 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Whether he triggers his spider-sense or not is not important, I think it was during the Kraven's first hunt arc when he was being observed by one of the Kravinoff, his spider-sense triggered but didn't exactly pin-point or tell him where it was coming from he just knew that he was in danger. Meaning that Midnighter can still observe Spidey's moves.

#16 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Wouldn't the fact that they both had prep mean they both knew they were heading a fight. If thats the case Spider-man would most likely be on alert for danger which he wasn't expecting when Kraven did it. Also to my knowledge although he can predict things in a random encounter I don't have any recollection of Midnighter being able to predict what prep an enemy is going to use.

#17 Posted by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3: Which Midnighter is this. New 52 Midnighter or Wildstorm Midnighter

#18 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9618 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Midnighter calculates on the spot, but if spiderman preps, I have a feeling it could be dangerous for midnighter. Without prep, midnighter wins no doubt, with prep it could go either way.

#19 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cable_Extreme said:

@Strider92: Midnighter calculates on the spot, but if spiderman preps, I have a feeling it could be dangerous for midnighter. Without prep, midnighter wins no doubt, with prep it could go either way.

Agreed without prep I would support Midnighter after a good fight. With prep and current Spider-man's intelligence i'm inclined to support him.

#20 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: True but being familiar with a opponent is a advantage, he can see his opponents weak points and like he did with Marthian Manhunter.

#21 Edited by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Strider92: True but being familiar with a opponent is a advantage, he can see his opponents weak points and like he did with Marthian Manhunter.

I agree in a random encounter Midnighter would win this I just think with prep which is a rogue element shifts this to Spider-mans favor. The general consensus in Spider-man Vs Midnighter threads is that Midnighter wins in a good fight. With prep which benefits Spider-man far more than Midnighter should give him the advantage.

#22 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9618 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Cable_Extreme said:

@Strider92: Midnighter calculates on the spot, but if spiderman preps, I have a feeling it could be dangerous for midnighter. Without prep, midnighter wins no doubt, with prep it could go either way.

Agreed without prep I would support Midnighter after a good fight. With prep and current Spider-man's intelligence i'm inclined to support him.

Yeah, Spiderman's spidey sense will counter midnighter's computer and his prep will allow him to come up with a way to defeat midnighter. Though it would still be a 50-50% chance if spidy has prep. Maybe 51-49% lol

#23 Posted by nickzambuto (14155 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Current Spider-man wins with 1 day prep.

Midnighter's good but current Spider-Man is superior to him.

I'll never get tired of that joke.

#24 Edited by Dark_Vengeance_ (15006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: But considering that Spider-man has prep what is he going to do to stop Midnighter? I doubt Spidey can find info on Midnighter. While Midnighter just probably has to type Spider-man into youtube and he will probably find a collection of authenthic videos of Spidey in battle.

#25 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Despite Midnighters formidable abilities he can still be taken out by conventional means. A broken neck KO'd him. Even with short periods of time Ock has done some incredible things. with a day he coated hims suit in carbonadium (ASM 700) this already lowers the amount of damage Midnighter can do not to mention all the technology Spider-man already has access too from Horizon, freeze pellets, magnetic webbing, acid webbing etc.... With the amount of resources at Horzion, access to Ocks own lab and the combined smarts of both Peter and Otto there are many things he could do to even the odds.

#26 Edited by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Strider92: True but being familiar with a opponent is a advantage, he can see his opponents weak points and like he did with Marthian Manhunter.

his strike didn't do anything to Manhunter... Manhunter was playing possum.

@comicace3: Want to avoid the "Welcome to Comicvine" crap? Use the search function before making battles.

#27 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: I could be wrong but I believe he was was referring to the instance in Stormwatch where Midnighter found Martian Manhunters evolutionary weakness and tried to punch the bone in his nose through his brain not the surprise attack where MM was indeed playing possum.

#28 Posted by N0tS0An0nym0us (907 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Shawnbaby: I could be wrong but I believe he was was referring to the instance in Stormwatch where Midnighter found Martian Manhunters evolutionary weakness and tried to punch the bone in his nose through his brain not the surprise attack where MM was indeed playing possum.

You mean this?

#29 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@N0tS0An0nym0us: Yeah.

#30 Posted by dondave (38589 posts) - - Show Bio

That's a massive chinspike

#31 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

@Strider92 said:

@Shawnbaby: I could be wrong but I believe he was was referring to the instance in Stormwatch where Midnighter found Martian Manhunters evolutionary weakness and tried to punch the bone in his nose through his brain not the surprise attack where MM was indeed playing possum.

You mean this?

I see 3 things here.

1) MM survived and survives easily

2) Midnighter Battle CPU had no clue MM would survive

3) Midinighter clearly doesn't understand WHY MM survived that blow easy which means neither does his ALL KNOWING CPU was clueless.

Midnighter is so overated with his CPU.....

Thanks for the clear cut scans.

#32 Posted by Alexander505 (2165 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter.

#33 Posted by N0tS0An0nym0us (907 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: New 52 Midnighter doesn't have his supercomputer...he just has precog

#34 Posted by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

@Strider92 said:

@Shawnbaby: I could be wrong but I believe he was was referring to the instance in Stormwatch where Midnighter found Martian Manhunters evolutionary weakness and tried to punch the bone in his nose through his brain not the surprise attack where MM was indeed playing possum.

You mean this?

Oh...So it wasnt the one I was thinking it was...It's a completely different example of Midnighter being completely ineffective against Martian Manhunter.

Man, I love it when even proving me wrong proves that I am right.

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

@CadenceV2: New 52 Midnighter doesn't have his supercomputer...he just has precog

So New 52 Midnighter also has crappy Precog... more fair for comic writing I suppose.

I know for a fact someone like Zealot battle thru Midnighters Battle CPU and nearly won with skill alone. Also Midnighter Battle CPU was useless against the Joker of all people cause Joker is insane.

It has limits to very skilled opponents and insane people it seems.

Also New 52 Midnighter Chin Spike looks silly.....

#36 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33974 posts) - - Show Bio
@CadenceV2 said:

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

@CadenceV2: New 52 Midnighter doesn't have his supercomputer...he just has precog

So New 52 Midnighter also has crappy Precog... more fair for comic writing I suppose.

I know for a fact someone like Zealot battle thru Midnighters Battle CPU and nearly won with skill alone. Also Midnighter Battle CPU was useless against the Joker of all people cause Joker is insane.

It has limits to very skilled opponents and insane people it seems.

Also New 52 Midnighter Chin Spike looks silly.....

That wasn't Joker and it wasn't even canon, nice going dude.....
#37 Posted by N0tS0An0nym0us (907 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

@CadenceV2: New 52 Midnighter doesn't have his supercomputer...he just has precog

So New 52 Midnighter also has crappy Precog... more fair for comic writing I suppose.

I know for a fact someone like Zealot battle thru Midnighters Battle CPU and nearly won with skill alone. Also Midnighter Battle CPU was useless against the Joker of all people cause Joker is insane.

It has limits to very skilled opponents and insane people it seems.

Also New 52 Midnighter Chin Spike looks silly.....

That wasn't Joker and it wasn't even canon, nice going dude.....

yeah, he kinda dropped the ball there.......also he's just blatantly lowballing and discrediting midnighter

#38 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

@CadenceV2: New 52 Midnighter doesn't have his supercomputer...he just has precog

So New 52 Midnighter also has crappy Precog... more fair for comic writing I suppose.

I know for a fact someone like Zealot battle thru Midnighters Battle CPU and nearly won with skill alone. Also Midnighter Battle CPU was useless against the Joker of all people cause Joker is insane.

It has limits to very skilled opponents and insane people it seems.

Also New 52 Midnighter Chin Spike looks silly.....

That wasn't Joker and it wasn't even canon, nice going dude.....

yeah, he kinda dropped the ball there.......also he's just blatantly lowballing and discrediting midnighter

Sorry Im not a super DC fan but is it not Cannon? Wild storm universe is in DC universe yes? Last Time I check DC dont have non cannon What Ifs like marvel. So how I drop the ball or lowball Midnighter? Because to say he always win when he doesn't is right?

#39 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: this battle is 50/50, Midnighter can make the odds to his advantage.

@CadenceV2: DC does have a non cannon, it is called Elseworlds.

#40 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33974 posts) - - Show Bio
@CadenceV2: The Midnighter/Joker confrontation happened in the Dream War mini, it never really happened and it wasn't actually Joker. Same reason Zealot never actually killed Batman.
#41 Posted by Strider92 (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: Huh? I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. All I said was I don't believe that was the feat that was being referred too which it wasn't.

#42 Posted by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Shawnbaby: Huh? I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. All I said was I don't believe that was the feat that was being referred too which it wasn't.

I know...it's just that even though it wasn't the example I was referring to..its another example proving that Midnighter is not infallible.

#43 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter was never infallible in the first place....

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#44 Posted by AssertingValor (5396 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3: Op is suposed to stay neutral in your own battle......

#45 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Elseworlds, have to keep that in mind.

@Jonny_Anonymous: I never saw Zealot killed batman but remember people posting scans of Joker vs Midnighter. Good to know then.

#46 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33974 posts) - - Show Bio
@CadenceV2
#47 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: Thanx. Realistically I think thats exactly what would happen in a fight between the 2 tho. Midnighters stats alone would have ended Joker so that was silly.

#48 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cable_Extreme said:

I see Midnighter using his door ability a lot here. If Midnighter touches him once, which he is fairly capable, he will port him into space, as once of my friends have just shown me.

He doesn't have to touch him, so there's that.

@Strider92 said:

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Strider92: A genius who took down the Avengers with prep vs The greatest tactician of history who can predict every single move that you are about to make and determine the best outcome in his head. tough call.

True I will point out that Midnighter's battle computer does not automatically find a sure way to win. It gives him an approximation and options on how he could win. Here for example:

Midnighter gambled his own life. It allowed him to win but he could have died. The computer does not give him a sure way to win. Midnighter still has to pull it off.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Midnighter said clearly that he found ways to win. I'm not sure where you see that he would have died. He could have stabbed her before she flew off. Winning wasn't the problem, the computer gave him ways to win, he just needed something beyond winning the fight, he needed her to talk. And really, I don't think he would have died if he fell from the sky. He has amazing durability and an incredible healing factor.

@Strider92 said:

@DarkKnightDetective: True but Midnighter has to see his opponent so he can predict his outcomes. For example someone like Zealot he could have gone over a ton of options for because he has seen her and fought her. He's never met Spider-man meaning all his calculations are going to be done on the spot when he meets him for the first time while still effective it lowers his chances considerably.

It's not clear what Midnighter needs to start working. He may not need to see him with his eyes directly, in which case, viewing Spider-Man from the Carrier (which can open Doors to anywhere on the planet if he did need to lay eyes on him) could easily be enough. And even if he doesn't, actually look at him, he can get more than enough information to make plans for Spider-Man. He could win the fight using nothing more than what he had in Revolutions, his armor and a vial of nano-aids. His armor would make him more than able to take anything Spider-Man could make in a day, and the vial would shut down any tech Spider-Man brought to the fight. And this brings me to a question I often have in prep fights, what are they prepping for? What do the characters get to know about each other?

@Strider92 said:

@DarkKnightDetective: Despite Midnighters formidable abilities he can still be taken out by conventional means. A broken neck KO'd him. Even with short periods of time Ock has done some incredible things. with a day he coated hims suit in carbonadium (ASM 700) this already lowers the amount of damage Midnighter can do not to mention all the technology Spider-man already has access too from Horizon, freeze pellets, magnetic webbing, acid webbing etc.... With the amount of resources at Horzion, access to Ocks own lab and the combined smarts of both Peter and Otto there are many things he could do to even the odds.

Spider-Man's not going to be breaking his neck though... Conventional means are all well and good except that Midnighter typically sees them coming. Seth broke his neck because he was a walking plot device with thousands of powers (including intangibility, which meant Midnighter could never have hurt him). He was beyond Midnighter's ability to deal with. Spider-Man with a day of prep isn't, unless there's something to show that he is. And while Midnighter has access to Horizon, Midnighter has the Carrier and everything in Krigstein's labs.

@CadenceV2 said:

I see 3 things here.

1) MM survived and survives easily

2) Midnighter Battle CPU had no clue MM would survive

3) Midinighter clearly doesn't understand WHY MM survived that blow easy which means neither does his ALL KNOWING CPU was clueless.

Midnighter is so overated with his CPU.....

Thanks for the clear cut scans.

That version of Midnighter isn't the one with an established combat computer so your complaints aren't really relevant. Also, Midnighter's weakness detection wasn't necessarily wrong. Manhunter had a weakness, he just moved it before it could be exploited.

@Shawnbaby said:

Oh...So it wasnt the one I was thinking it was...It's a completely different example of Midnighter being completely ineffective against Martian Manhunter.

Man, I love it when even proving me wrong proves that I am right.

If your point was that Midnighter was ineffective against MM, you were right. However, if your point was to counter the original point that Midnighter can see weak points, you'd be incorrect since Midnighter did correctly find a weakpoint (and MM confirms it), the weak point was just moved before it could be used.

@N0tS0An0nym0us said:

yeah, he kinda dropped the ball there.......also he's just blatantly lowballing and discrediting midnighter

Eh, it's what he does. You get used to it.

@CitizenBane said:

Midnighter was never infallible in the first place....

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#49 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33974 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: Are you checking out Team 7?
#50 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@Buckshot: Are you checking out Team 7?

Yeah, I'm waiting for it to be good. They got me with this Majestic thing and Spartan coming down the line though.

Moderator