#1 Edited by WillPayton (9823 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter

vs

Team Marvel: Beast, Captain America, Daredevil, Spider-Man, Wolverine

Everyone in character, random encounter. Start 10m apart in empty gladiator arena. Win by KO or death.

Other rules: no doors for Midnighter

Who wins?

#2 Posted by JediXMan (31313 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter.

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#3 Posted by xeon1cs (1481 posts) - - Show Bio

He pulls out all of their spines.

#4 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

As cool as Midnighter is, I just cannot believe he could take down all of the Team. Spider-man, Cap and Wolverine would likely give him a lot of trouble. Daredevil and Beast would just be the icing on the cake to further ensure the victory. I don't know Midnighters exact strength level, but I don't remember seeing anything that would put him on a level to be able to match all of the Team, but I could very well be wrong. He would probably do a lot better if he had Apollo to back him up if you know what I am saying.

#5 Posted by WillPayton (9823 posts) - - Show Bio

@TotalBalance said:

As cool as Midnighter is, I just cannot believe he could take down all of the Team. Spider-man, Cap and Wolverine would likely give him a lot of trouble. Daredevil and Beast would just be the icing on the cake to further ensure the victory. I don't know Midnighters exact strength level, but I don't remember seeing anything that would put him on a level to be able to match all of the Team, but I could very well be wrong. He would probably do a lot better if he had Apollo to back him up if you know what I am saying.

I was thinking that Spidey is the real threat here, everyone else (even Cap and Wolverine) is just fodder. Without any prior knowledge, and with Spidey's agility and spider-sense, Midnighters combat computer wouldnt have much data on which to predict his movements or reactions. This gives the team a chance to surprise him, get their hits in, and take him down.

#6 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@TotalBalance said:

As cool as Midnighter is, I just cannot believe he could take down all of the Team. Spider-man, Cap and Wolverine would likely give him a lot of trouble. Daredevil and Beast would just be the icing on the cake to further ensure the victory. I don't know Midnighters exact strength level, but I don't remember seeing anything that would put him on a level to be able to match all of the Team, but I could very well be wrong. He would probably do a lot better if he had Apollo to back him up if you know what I am saying.

I was thinking that Spidey is the real threat here, everyone else (even Cap and Wolverine) is just fodder. Without any prior knowledge, and with Spidey's agility and spider-sense, Midnighters combat computer wouldnt have much data on which to predict his movements or reactions. This gives the team a chance to surprise him, get their hits in, and take him down.

I was Kind of thinking Wolverine would Tank and dish out as much damage as possible. Cap would try and distract/hurt him with shield throws from a distance while Spidey does his best to keep him tied up as much as possible. Daredevil and Beast are just there to do what they can whether that is take shots our dish out some damage. But still I kind of saw Wolverine as the powerhouse of the team with his high durability and extremely dangerous claws, but Spidey could be a big threat as well.

#7 Posted by WillPayton (9823 posts) - - Show Bio

@TotalBalance said:

I was Kind of thinking Wolverine would Tank and dish out as much damage as possible. Cap would try and distract/hurt him with shield throws from a distance while Spidey does his best to keep him tied up as much as possible. Daredevil and Beast are just there to do what they can whether that is take shots our dish out some damage. But still I kind of saw Wolverine as the powerhouse of the team with his high durability and extremely dangerous claws, but Spidey could be a big threat as well.

I think the only way Wolverine could surprise is in the sense that Midnighter wouldnt be expecting his durability, but Wolverine on his own doesnt have anywhere near the speed to be any threat to him. The team would have their hands full just trying to survive... and most (or all) will fail. =)

#8 Posted by BarelyAverage (1118 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with Total and Will. Wolverine is the real key in here with Spidey being a serious threat. Cap, Beast, and DD seal it IMO. DD and Spidey are at least good enough to react to Midnighter and the others have superhuman reflexes as well. Too many fighters that are approaching his speed and even exceeding midnighters durability for him to take down. Also don't underestimate Beast's low level super human strength and intelligence.

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#9 Edited by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man is a serious threat. On his own he could give Midnighter trouble perhaps not beat him but come close. Wolverine and Spider-man are all that's needed to get a definite win here. Marvel Team takes it.

#10 Posted by Kratesis (4266 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter should win this. He knows what their powers are from one look, he knows exactly what each of them is going to do and what he needs to do in order to win.

#11 Posted by BigCimmerian (8864 posts) - - Show Bio

Is someone kind enough to inform me about Midnighter powers and abillities?

#12 Edited by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian: Battle Computer that allows him to predict outcomes of battles (basically pre-incog), superhuman speed, strength and agility, healing factor (healed from a broken neck in seconds). I'll call in the Midnighter expert lol.

Whats your thoughts? I'm pretty sure Marvel takes this Wolverine and Spider-man should be enough.

#13 Posted by dondave (38895 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter

#14 Posted by joshmightbe (24763 posts) - - Show Bio

I Think Spiderman would be his only real challenge here, it comes down to Spider Sense vs Battle Computer

#15 Posted by ChaosMarvel (1000 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man would be a challenge for Midnighter on his own throw in the rest of the characters and the team definitely takes this.

#16 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Spider-man is a serious threat. On his own he could give Midnighter trouble perhaps not beat him but come close. Wolverine and Spider-man are all that's needed to get a definite win here. Marvel Team takes it.

this

#17 Posted by SoA (5248 posts) - - Show Bio

but since everyone one is in character , marvel will hold back . midnighter doesn't. he has taken on bigger threats . Midnighter wins

#18 Edited by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA said:

but since everyone one is in character , marvel will hold back . midnighter doesn't. he has taken on bigger threats . Midnighter wins

Doesn't matter. Even holding back Spider-man is stronger, just as fast (in physical speed probably not combat speed) and has a spider-sense which will cause a lot of trouble for Midnigters battle computer not to mention webbing which could be used for incapacitation and without Doors Midnighter won't be getting out of that easily. Throw in Wolverine who is quite prepared to kill anyway it should a solid victory.

The only thing Spider-man holds back in fights is his strength everything else speed, agility etc.. remains unaffected.

#19 Posted by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

He pulls out all of their spines.

#20 Posted by BigCimmerian (8864 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@BigCimmerian: Battle Computer that allows him to predict outcomes of battles (basically pre-incog), superhuman speed, strength and agility, healing factor (healed from a broken neck in seconds). I'll call in the Midnighter expert lol.

Whats your thoughts? I'm pretty sure Marvel takes this Wolverine and Spider-man should be enough.

Thanks for info, I never read anything with Midnighter in, but I am really interested in character.

#21 Posted by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian: He is a very awesome character. I recommend checking out him in Wildstorm not DC-52. Wildstorm Midnighter is a boss! DC Midnighter......kinda sux in comparison.

#22 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@BigCimmerian: He is a very awesome character. I recommend checking out him in Wildstorm not DC-52. Wildstorm Midnighter is a boss! DC Midnighter......kinda sux in comparison.

Yeah, DC has not managed to keep up the quality, but who knows maybe it will get better.

The reason I see Midnighter losing is because there is only so much he as one person can do despite knowing his enemies plans. For a slightly over the top example, Midnighter could know that Imperiex is going to vaporize him, but that will not stop him from being vaporized as he just does not have the ability to counter something of that magnitude. Similarly in this down to earth example I just don't see him having the ability to have a full fledged fight with Wolverine while Spider-man is wrapping him in Webs and Cap is chucking his shield at Midnighter's head. Beast and Daredevil just add extra complications that will further seal he win for the Team.

#23 Edited by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@TotalBalance: Yeah they should have kept his old costume for starters. I hope you're right and it'll get better.

Huh? Look at my posts lol I am arguing Midnighter loses xD. Spider-man and Logan should be enough.

#24 Posted by spiderpool94 (467 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel. Midnighter is a great fighter but just outnumbered. Wolverine will not be put out of a fight easily and this is a very functional well trained and highly powered team.

#25 Posted by WillPayton (9823 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderpool94 said:

Marvel. Midnighter is a great fighter but just outnumbered. Wolverine will not be put out of a fight easily and this is a very functional well trained and highly powered team.

He's not just a great fighter, he also has some insane combat feats...

Please post them if you have the rest of the scans for this fight.

#26 Posted by ShiZZmAhh (528 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't Spider-man alone be a good match for Midnighter?

#27 Posted by joshmightbe (24763 posts) - - Show Bio

@jobbernos: He can't pull out Wolverine's spine unless he gets a sudden charge of Juggernaut level strength or the ability to remove adamantium from bone

#28 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider man and wolverine alone would give him a fight to remember . No way he can win this, too many people who are highly skilled. I don't see a feasbile way he can take out the team without spider-man or wolverine bearing him down and pitting it in the teams favour. Team 8/10

#29 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Whats your thoughts? I'm pretty sure Marvel takes this Wolverine and Spider-man should be enough.

I don't see why Midnighter couldn't win.

Beast and DD are mentioned as "icing on the cake" but I see them as simply the first characters to die. Neither of them would survive a hit from Midnighter and while they're both incredibly agile, they rarely go up against people who know exactly what they're going to do before they do it. Those two have fights where punches are traded, but with Midnighter, those punches would break bones with every hit, if not go directly through their bodies as they normally do. Someone said something about Midnighter not having prior knowledge, but really it's the other way around. Midnighter's combat computer basically allows him to walk into any fight with prep, while no one on the other team would know anything about him. On top of that, they wouldn't be well suited to fighting together right off the bat (though this particular group wouldn't be as uncoordinated as most random assemblages) while he would be seeing all their movements laid out for him. They wouldnt know exactly what their teammates were doing, but he would right as the fight started. Someone said they didnt know how Midnighter would deal with a real fight with Wolverine while webs and Caps shield are coming at him, but the answer is right there. Midnighter has taken weapons off his opponents before and used them against the attackers before (hell, he once ripped off a robots bladed arm to kill his teammates with it, and beaten another group of "heroes" to death with the ripped off jaw of one their members). Cap's shield has been caught before (and by people without the precog or stats of Midnighter) so as soon as it leaves his hand it would be Midnighter's tool. He would instantly know its value in combat and wouldn't be tricked by it hitting him from behind like so many people are. The shield can then be used to decapitate any of the street level characters, block Wolverine's claws, or give Midnighter cover while he drops explosives (which range from room-sized up to "mini-nuke") right in the middle of the melee. And speaking of, Midnighter's equipment is being neglected here. Even putting aside Doors, the guy walks around with explosives that no one has mentioned, and aside from Wolverine, no one here can tank a blast as well as he can, and he also has numerous blades and blunt force weapons. As for the Spider-Man is enough of a threat thing, I think it's true under the right conditions, but these are not them. Spider-Man may be stronger, but this isn't a weightlifting contest. Midnighter doesn't need to be as strong as Spider-Man to beat him, he just needs to stronger than Spider-Man's durability can take, and he certainly is. Not only is he strong, but he knows how to hit well. He's beaten people with nerve strikes and killed with a well-placed poke, and at the upper limits of his ability, his strikes have floored people like Apollo and Sebastian (evil Majestic for those who don't know). And I don't see Spider-Man's spider sense being a big problem. It allows him to know danger is coming, but it has been outsmarted before. It's just a reflex and even Captain America has used that early warning against Spider-Man before. Spider-Man at best knows what's about to happen, but Midnighter knows the whole fight.

And for anyone who says they simply can not see a way for Midnighter to win... How about Midnighter dodges the, to him, insanely slow and telegraphed first attacks of all the characters, catches Captain America's shield when it's inevitably thrown (or just rips it off his arm with superhuman strength when he's close) and drops a large explosive at his feet while hiding behind the perfect defense, instantly killing Beast, Daredevil, and Captain America. Before the smoke clears and while Spider-man is still disoriented from the blast and the enormous spider sense overload that had preceded it and is still going off (not to mention being physically limited in some way by the explosion), Midnighter closes the distance with a burst of speed and caves his skull in, leaving only him and a shaken Wolverine. With shield in hand Midnighter can lay into Wolverine just like Cap has done multiple times and beat him unconscious without having to worry about claws (which he could have easily dodged or healed from in any case). Orrrrr.... Midnighter dissuades Spider-man from using webs by positioning himself near other characters so any time he tries, Midnighter is able to maneuver someone else into the way of the webs (since he knows they're coming), getting Spider-Man to take a couple of his teammates out for him and then giving up on the web approach. How the fight follows depends too much on who gets taken out by Spider-man so I'll leave this one alone. Orrrrrr.... Midnighter decides to take Spider-Man out first, using explosives or shuriken to force Spider-Man to dodge to a position he's already blitzing and putting his hand through Spider-Man's chest when they connect, then brutalizing his corpse and bragging about it (while easily evading the much slower remained of the group) until he sends Wolverine into a rage and has him do the real work of killing his teammates and then deals with him at the end. Orrrrr....Midnighter starts the fight off by killing Daredevil with a couple shuriken or arrow/darts the way Bullseye would if in all their fights he not only knew how to hit where DD was but also where he was about to be and then follows suit with Beast. He goes to do the same with Spider-Man but instead of using more arrow/darts he uses a couple of the explosives he carries that are only shaped like an arrow/dart so when Spider-man inevitably avoids the small projectiles he's caught between two large explosions. And seeing as he'd really only need to be as fast as Black Panther to not get beaten down by Cap and Wolverine while he threw a few projectiles, he'd be ready to fight them next when he was done. Cap goes down easy to someone who's at least his physical equal and knows every move he's about to make and then its Midnighter with the shield again facing down Wolverine. Defense in one hand and overwhelming offense in the form of numerous explosives in the other. Or just fists. Midnighter can punch really hard, and numerous hits would eventually drop Wolverine. Flawless victory? Probably not, but it's certainly possible.

I like this image a lot. It doesn't prove anything, it's just fun. I like that even though 30 genetically engineered human weapons are arrayed against Midnighter, in the very first move he makes, he can engage 10 of them that are rushing him at once and take down 6 of them without getting more than maybe some rips on his coat. It's panels like this that make me not count Midnighter out just because he's fighting a bunch of enemies at once.

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#30 Edited by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@SoA said:

but since everyone one is in character , marvel will hold back . midnighter doesn't. he has taken on bigger threats . Midnighter wins

Doesn't matter. Even holding back Spider-man is stronger, just as fast (in physical speed probably not combat speed) and has a spider-sense which will cause a lot of trouble for Midnigters battle computer not to mention webbing which could be used for incapacitation and without Doors Midnighter won't be getting out of that easily. Throw in Wolverine who is quite prepared to kill anyway it should a solid victory.

The only thing Spider-man holds back in fights is his strength everything else speed, agility etc.. remains unaffected.

Given Spider-Man is SpOck now, he doesn't even hold back that much anymore. Want proof, just asked Gargan jaw (or what's left of it).

@Buckshot: Nice Analysis.

So, are backing Midnighter for a Majority then.

#31 Posted by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@Strider92 said:

@SoA said:

but since everyone one is in character , marvel will hold back . midnighter doesn't. he has taken on bigger threats . Midnighter wins

Doesn't matter. Even holding back Spider-man is stronger, just as fast (in physical speed probably not combat speed) and has a spider-sense which will cause a lot of trouble for Midnigters battle computer not to mention webbing which could be used for incapacitation and without Doors Midnighter won't be getting out of that easily. Throw in Wolverine who is quite prepared to kill anyway it should a solid victory.

The only thing Spider-man holds back in fights is his strength everything else speed, agility etc.. remains unaffected.

Given Spider-Man is SpOck now, he doesn't even hold back that much anymore. Want proof, just asked Gargan jaw (or what's left of it).

The horrorz!

#32 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5327 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Marvel, Spidey might be able to take him solo. Without doors Midnighter doesn't stand a chance against this team.

#33 Posted by Deadcool (6755 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: I think that you should remove the morals for the Marvel team.

#34 Posted by Stompa (1336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: Uhm yeah i just wanted to say EXCATLY the same thing....you were just faster...*cough. Well i totally agree nicely done.

#35 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@Buckshot: Nice Analysis.

So, are backing Midnighter for a Majority then.

I'm just contrary and typically don't like absolute statements. It gets suggested that there's no way for a character I like to win and I'll see if there is. If people had said Midnighter stomped I would have been on the other side.

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#36 Posted by WillPayton (9823 posts) - - Show Bio

.

#37 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter stomps

@Buckshot said:

@Strider92 said:

Whats your thoughts? I'm pretty sure Marvel takes this Wolverine and Spider-man should be enough.

I don't see why Midnighter couldn't win.

Beast and DD are mentioned as "icing on the cake" but I see them as simply the first characters to die. Neither of them would survive a hit from Midnighter and while they're both incredibly agile, they rarely go up against people who know exactly what they're going to do before they do it. Those two have fights where punches are traded, but with Midnighter, those punches would break bones with every hit, if not go directly through their bodies as they normally do. Someone said something about Midnighter not having prior knowledge, but really it's the other way around. Midnighter's combat computer basically allows him to walk into any fight with prep, while no one on the other team would know anything about him. On top of that, they wouldn't be well suited to fighting together right off the bat (though this particular group wouldn't be as uncoordinated as most random assemblages) while he would be seeing all their movements laid out for him. They wouldnt know exactly what their teammates were doing, but he would right as the fight started. Someone said they didnt know how Midnighter would deal with a real fight with Wolverine while webs and Caps shield are coming at him, but the answer is right there. Midnighter has taken weapons off his opponents before and used them against the attackers before (hell, he once ripped off a robots bladed arm to kill his teammates with it, and beaten another group of "heroes" to death with the ripped off jaw of one their members). Cap's shield has been caught before (and by people without the precog or stats of Midnighter) so as soon as it leaves his hand it would be Midnighter's tool. He would instantly know its value in combat and wouldn't be tricked by it hitting him from behind like so many people are. The shield can then be used to decapitate any of the street level characters, block Wolverine's claws, or give Midnighter cover while he drops explosives (which range from room-sized up to "mini-nuke") right in the middle of the melee. And speaking of, Midnighter's equipment is being neglected here. Even putting aside Doors, the guy walks around with explosives that no one has mentioned, and aside from Wolverine, no one here can tank a blast as well as he can, and he also has numerous blades and blunt force weapons. As for the Spider-Man is enough of a threat thing, I think it's true under the right conditions, but these are not them. Spider-Man may be stronger, but this isn't a weightlifting contest. Midnighter doesn't need to be as strong as Spider-Man to beat him, he just needs to stronger than Spider-Man's durability can take, and he certainly is. Not only is he strong, but he knows how to hit well. He's beaten people with nerve strikes and killed with a well-placed poke, and at the upper limits of his ability, his strikes have floored people like Apollo and Sebastian (evil Majestic for those who don't know). And I don't see Spider-Man's spider sense being a big problem. It allows him to know danger is coming, but it has been outsmarted before. It's just a reflex and even Captain America has used that early warning against Spider-Man before. Spider-Man at best knows what's about to happen, but Midnighter knows the whole fight.

And for anyone who says they simply can not see a way for Midnighter to win... How about Midnighter dodges the, to him, insanely slow and telegraphed first attacks of all the characters, catches Captain America's shield when it's inevitably thrown (or just rips it off his arm with superhuman strength when he's close) and drops a large explosive at his feet while hiding behind the perfect defense, instantly killing Beast, Daredevil, and Captain America. Before the smoke clears and while Spider-man is still disoriented from the blast and the enormous spider sense overload that had preceded it and is still going off (not to mention being physically limited in some way by the explosion), Midnighter closes the distance with a burst of speed and caves his skull in, leaving only him and a shaken Wolverine. With shield in hand Midnighter can lay into Wolverine just like Cap has done multiple times and beat him unconscious without having to worry about claws (which he could have easily dodged or healed from in any case). Orrrrr.... Midnighter dissuades Spider-man from using webs by positioning himself near other characters so any time he tries, Midnighter is able to maneuver someone else into the way of the webs (since he knows they're coming), getting Spider-Man to take a couple of his teammates out for him and then giving up on the web approach. How the fight follows depends too much on who gets taken out by Spider-man so I'll leave this one alone. Orrrrrr.... Midnighter decides to take Spider-Man out first, using explosives or shuriken to force Spider-Man to dodge to a position he's already blitzing and putting his hand through Spider-Man's chest when they connect, then brutalizing his corpse and bragging about it (while easily evading the much slower remained of the group) until he sends Wolverine into a rage and has him do the real work of killing his teammates and then deals with him at the end. Orrrrr....Midnighter starts the fight off by killing Daredevil with a couple shuriken or arrow/darts the way Bullseye would if in all their fights he not only knew how to hit where DD was but also where he was about to be and then follows suit with Beast. He goes to do the same with Spider-Man but instead of using more arrow/darts he uses a couple of the explosives he carries that are only shaped like an arrow/dart so when Spider-man inevitably avoids the small projectiles he's caught between two large explosions. And seeing as he'd really only need to be as fast as Black Panther to not get beaten down by Cap and Wolverine while he threw a few projectiles, he'd be ready to fight them next when he was done. Cap goes down easy to someone who's at least his physical equal and knows every move he's about to make and then its Midnighter with the shield again facing down Wolverine. Defense in one hand and overwhelming offense in the form of numerous explosives in the other. Or just fists. Midnighter can punch really hard, and numerous hits would eventually drop Wolverine. Flawless victory? Probably not, but it's certainly possible.

I like this image a lot. It doesn't prove anything, it's just fun. I like that even though 30 genetically engineered human weapons are arrayed against Midnighter, in the very first move he makes, he can engage 10 of them that are rushing him at once and take down 6 of them without getting more than maybe some rips on his coat. It's panels like this that make me not count Midnighter out just because he's fighting a bunch of enemies at once.

hey this is a wonderful post.

The best thing about that image is that those enemies are all "X-Men shaped"... I can see Jean Grey, Ice-Man, the Beast, Angel, Cyclops.. love Millar lol