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#1 Posted by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

So,who would win this one?Midnighter has his standard gear,Ares  Has his Axe as well as two uzis

,the fight takes place in Newark.
#2 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

ares solos
#3 Posted by pooty (10838 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

#4 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter. He places Daken's claws gently into Ares' head, kills the mutant then gets to working on the rest of them. The only threats are Daken's pheromones which Midnighter's system should be able to handle for at LEAST long enough to kill him, and Ares, who can go down easy thanks to either the muramasa claws or all the adamantium ones.

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#5 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

Here Midnighter doens't stand a chance. He will have 1 000 000s of scenarios of team GODSTOMPING him. By the way Ares is fast enough to cathc Hermes so MIDnighter stands no chance in hell not to mention that he can't do anything to touch him, nevertheless to stab him with Daken's claws.

#6 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter. if he can't stop ares he doors him to the sun.

#7 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@difficlus said:

Midnighter. if he can't stop ares he doors him to the sun.

Point is that he would need to push him in the portal or go with him, like Apollo did to Atom.

#8 Posted by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:
Midnighter. He places Daken's claws gently into Ares' head, kills the mutant then gets to working on the rest of them. The only threats are Daken's pheromones which Midnighter's system should be able to handle for at LEAST long enough to kill him, and Ares, who can go down easy thanks to either the muramasa claws or all the adamantium ones.
I think this is what would happen,at the slight difference that I do not think the pheromones would even affect him because of his battlecomputer.
#9 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Maxwell Lord the fourth said:

@Buckshot said:
Midnighter. He places Daken's claws gently into Ares' head, kills the mutant then gets to working on the rest of them. The only threats are Daken's pheromones which Midnighter's system should be able to handle for at LEAST long enough to kill him, and Ares, who can go down easy thanks to either the muramasa claws or all the adamantium ones.
I think this is what would happen,at the slight difference that I do not think the pheromones would even affect him because of his battlecomputer.

Ares is too fast, strong, durable and powerful for Midnighter to deal with him, Not to mention that Midnighter alone will have problems with Daken. And with Logan added he losses. Other team members and it's GODSTOMP in favor of team. So eother stop posting meanigless things and quoting Buckshot's fanfiction or start posting some scan to confimr your statements.

#10 Posted by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFallenOne: You hating Midnighter doesn't change the fact that he would win here.
#11 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne said:

@difficlus said:

Midnighter. if he can't stop ares he doors him to the sun.

Point is that he would need to push him in the portal or go with him, like Apollo did to Atom.

it's been established that doors can also fold around people. I don't see why he would have trouble pushing ares into a door. Even if it would cause problems he could open one in front of ares while ares is in mid charge.

#12 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Maxwell Lord the fourth said:

@TheFallenOne: You hating Midnighter doesn't change the fact that he would win here.

First of all i'm not hating here. I'm asking for the facts, and i suggest you to calm down your fanboyism and start debating seriously. I mean everytime if i question some DC/Wildstorm character i'm automaticly hating ? I asked for the valid evidance of your statements. if you can't support them than forfite and don't go in offensive mode automaticly.@difficlus said:

@TheFallenOne said:

@difficlus said:

Midnighter. if he can't stop ares he doors him to the sun.

Point is that he would need to push him in the portal or go with him, like Apollo did to Atom.

it's been established that doors can also fold around people. I don't see why he would have trouble pushing ares into a door. Even if it would cause problems he could open one in front of ares while ares is in mid charge.

Ares is to strong and fast for him. Plus he isn't only team member and other ar enough to take out Midnighter. Second Ares can just throuw his axe at high speed towards the Midnighter. Third no one really answered me ever. How fast do Doors emerge ? I mean faster than peak human reactions like in millisecond, microsecone ... ? Fourth Ares can cathc Hermes, so i don't see why wouldn't he stop if Doors suddenly emerge.

#13 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne said:

@Maxwell Lord the fourth said:

@TheFallenOne: You hating Midnighter doesn't change the fact that he would win here.

First of all i'm not hating here. I'm asking for the facts, and i suggest you to calm down your fanboyism and start debating seriously. I mean everytime if i question some DC/Wildstorm character i'm automaticly hating ? I asked for the valid evidance of your statements. if you can't support them than forfite and don't go in offensive mode automaticly.@difficlus said:

@TheFallenOne said:

@difficlus said:

Midnighter. if he can't stop ares he doors him to the sun.

Point is that he would need to push him in the portal or go with him, like Apollo did to Atom.

it's been established that doors can also fold around people. I don't see why he would have trouble pushing ares into a door. Even if it would cause problems he could open one in front of ares while ares is in mid charge.

Ares is to strong and fast for him. Plus he isn't only team member and other ar enough to take out Midnighter. Second Ares can just throuw his axe at high speed towards the Midnighter. Third no one really answered me ever. How fast do Doors emerge ? I mean faster than peak human reactions like in millisecond, microsecone ... ? Fourth Ares can cathc Hermes, so i don't see why wouldn't he stop if Doors suddenly emerge.

The same could be said about Apollo and midnighter toyed with him like a fool. Its not a matter of over powering someone with greater strength or speed but using it against them.

Also ares can only move at what? not faster than quicksilver... Midnighter can move faster than people with super speed (even swift on ocassion). Also i want to see the Hermes scan, was hermes moving at top speed? has ares done it before?

High speed axe...yeah i doubt that would stop midnighter even if it hit him. besides he would have already anticipated such a move from ares from the beginning of the fight and know the measures to avoid ares from throwing it at him.

Doors open instantaneously. As soon as midnighter commands it, its there.

#14 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne: just because ares can move fast doesn't mean he can stop himself very quickly when already moving at high speeds. especially if a doors right in front of him...

#15 Posted by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFallenOne: Ok;well first a little showing against tanks
:
#16 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

A little showing against metahumans:

Powers only at 70% efficiency.

#17 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Maxwell Lord the fourth said:

@TheFallenOne: Ok;well first a little showing against tanks

:

The scan only show that he block the rifle fire which is shoot in him. So for sure not kicking tank shell (like it is represented ) and can't really be considered as bullet timing since rifle was shooting at him. But good speed/reaction feat for street leveler and ti proves that Midnighter is at top tier of street levelers.

#18 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne: He has dodged bullets from a women with aiming implants...

here is the scan before that btw

#19 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@difficlus said:

A little showing against metahumans:

Powers only at 70% efficiency.

Bunch of no ones. Also here are the scans

see the bottom panel Hermes was using a great speed

And Ares has displayed super speed many times. Also if i start questioning Midnighters top feats like you startes with this feat (how many times he did it) than Midnighter won't even be a peak human.

#20 Edited by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne: Hermes isn't moving too fast for a supposed speedster. I have a scan here of midnighter actually outrunning one gimme one.

Won't even be peak human? Despite dodging bullets with ease? *raises eye brows*

@TheFallenOne: also wth, the scan of hermes been beast in super speed is of him picking on a boy playing around? yeah what am awesome feat that is *rolls eyes*.

#21 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@difficlus said:

@TheFallenOne: Hermes isn't moving too fast for a supposed speedster. I have a scan here of midnighter actually outrunning one gimme one.

Won't even be peak human? Despite dodging bullets with ease? *raises eye brows*

@TheFallenOne: also wth, the scan of hermes been beast in super speed is of him picking on a boy playing around? yeah what am awesome feat that is *rolls eyes*.

This is simply your denial. Hermes was moving fast enough to make wind with his movement. That above anything Midnighter shows. His brain computer also helps him and not to emntion that characters with peak human physicla status like Daredevil also evaded bullets. Just see the last panel of what that boy did.

#22 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne said:

@difficlus said:

@TheFallenOne: Hermes isn't moving too fast for a supposed speedster. I have a scan here of midnighter actually outrunning one gimme one.

Won't even be peak human? Despite dodging bullets with ease? *raises eye brows*

@TheFallenOne: also wth, the scan of hermes been beast in super speed is of him picking on a boy playing around? yeah what am awesome feat that is *rolls eyes*.

This is simply your denial. Hermes was moving fast enough to make wind with his movement. That above anything Midnighter shows. His brain computer also helps him and not to emntion that characters with peak human physicla status like Daredevil also evaded bullets. Just see the last panel of what that boy did.

We have no idea how fast hermes was moving but unless you post one of a bullet moving beside him i can't take that to be bullet time speed. Moving over 150 miles an hour can do that...

#23 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne said:

@difficlus said:

Midnighter. if he can't stop ares he doors him to the sun.

Point is that he would need to push him in the portal or go with him, like Apollo did to Atom.

In point of fact, Doors can be opened beneath a person so gravity does all the work. Doors can also spot-teleport people so they need not walk through anything. as seen in Number of the Beast.

@TheFallenOne said:

@Maxwell Lord the fourth said:

@Buckshot said:
Midnighter. He places Daken's claws gently into Ares' head, kills the mutant then gets to working on the rest of them. The only threats are Daken's pheromones which Midnighter's system should be able to handle for at LEAST long enough to kill him, and Ares, who can go down easy thanks to either the muramasa claws or all the adamantium ones.
I think this is what would happen,at the slight difference that I do not think the pheromones would even affect him because of his battlecomputer.

Ares is too fast, strong, durable and powerful for Midnighter to deal with him, Not to mention that Midnighter alone will have problems with Daken. And with Logan added he losses. Other team members and it's GODSTOMP in favor of team. So eother stop posting meanigless things and quoting Buckshot's fanfiction or start posting some scan to confimr your statements.

The only one of Ares' stats you listed that actually matters is his speed. His strength doesn't stop a blade from going through his face, and even his level of durability wouldn't stop an adamantium or muramasa claw. His speed would be useful, but it's not something he displays to be consistently above the level of anyone in this fight. He's a brawler, not a speedster. Even if he had that speed, it's not in his character to use it. The scan you're using to confirm Ares' speed doesn't help you. He does not catch Hermes while he's actually using his speed, he simply shoots him in the foot while he's standing still then catches him when he falls at normal speed. If anything, the fact that Ares couldn't catch Hermes (first page of the scans) when he was moving shows his lack of speed.

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#24 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@TheFallenOne said:

@difficlus said:

Midnighter. if he can't stop ares he doors him to the sun.

Point is that he would need to push him in the portal or go with him, like Apollo did to Atom.

In point of fact, Doors can be opened beneath a person so gravity does all the work. Doors can also spot-teleport people so they need not walk through anything. as seen in Number of the Beast.

@TheFallenOne said:

@Maxwell Lord the fourth said:

@Buckshot said:
Midnighter. He places Daken's claws gently into Ares' head, kills the mutant then gets to working on the rest of them. The only threats are Daken's pheromones which Midnighter's system should be able to handle for at LEAST long enough to kill him, and Ares, who can go down easy thanks to either the muramasa claws or all the adamantium ones.
I think this is what would happen,at the slight difference that I do not think the pheromones would even affect him because of his battlecomputer.

Ares is too fast, strong, durable and powerful for Midnighter to deal with him, Not to mention that Midnighter alone will have problems with Daken. And with Logan added he losses. Other team members and it's GODSTOMP in favor of team. So eother stop posting meanigless things and quoting Buckshot's fanfiction or start posting some scan to confimr your statements.

The only one of Ares' stats you listed that actually matters is his speed. His strength doesn't stop a blade from going through his face, and even his level of durability wouldn't stop an adamantium or muramasa claw. His speed would be useful, but it's not something he displays to be consistently above the level of anyone in this fight. He's a brawler, not a speedster. Even if he had that speed, it's not in his character to use it. The scan you're using to confirm Ares' speed doesn't help you. He does not catch Hermes while he's actually using his speed, he simply shoots him in the foot while he's standing still then catches him when he falls at normal speed. If anything, the fact that Ares couldn't catch Hermes (first page of the scans) when he was moving shows his lack of speed.

On last panel we see that Hermes could easily escaped before he felt, but Ares caught him. And your scenarion won't happend. That's the only way he can hurt Ares but he won't be able to defeat both Logan and his son. Not to mention that pheromones would do the trick.

#25 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne: Hermes could have dodged the nailgun too (unless you think nails move faster than hermes) but it hit him. Hermes' speed was downplayed/overlooked so Ares could hit him.

Simple facts here, lets see if you can follow: When Hermes was using his speed, Ares could not touch him. When Hermes was not using his speed, Ares was able to shoot him in the foot and catch him as he fell.

What makes more sense, that Ares (and a nailgun) is faster than Hermes or that Hermes wasn't using his speed when Ares caught him?

You haven't shown why Midnighter can't defeat anyone in this fight and you haven't shown why the pheromones would prevent Midnighter from taking down Daken.

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#26 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@TheFallenOne: Hermes could have dodged the nailgun too (unless you think nails move faster than hermes) but it hit him. Hermes' speed was downplayed/overlooked so Ares could hit him.

Simple facts here, lets see if you can follow: When Hermes was using his speed, Ares could not touch him. When Hermes was not using his speed, Ares was able to shoot him in the foot and catch him as he fell.

What makes more sense, that Ares (and a nailgun) is faster than Hermes or that Hermes wasn't using his speed when Ares caught him?

You haven't shown why Midnighter can't defeat anyone in this fight and you haven't shown why the pheromones would prevent Midnighter from taking down Daken.

First of all when Ares atempted to catch him slap him for the first time he wasn't aware that kid was Hermes. And next thing is that after that they were talking, so Hermes was suprised.

Ares will simply throw his axe and Midnighter is dead. Since he hasn't shown so far that he can endure something as powerful as Areses axe or that he can survive his skull being ripped in two. So even with Door he won't be able to defeat Ares, not to mention that Ares totaly outlclasses him

.For pheromones see thread Midnighter vs Daken since i'm not in the od to repeat myself.

Without Door he can't do anything to Wolverine and Wolverine senses would tell him that somehting is worng so he owuld be prepared for Door. But with Door(bFR) alowed i would still give it to Midnighter 6/10. Against Wolverine is rather stealmate since Midnighter is faster than Wolvie in my opinion.

against X-23 is basilcy the same as Wolverine, although even without Door i say Midnighter can best her. Since he is stronger and faster than her.

Anyway any 2 combatants combined are more than enough to defeat Midnighter and in case of Ares is overkill.

And for your fanfiction outcome of the battel there is nothing to confimr it. By the way you over-rated Midnighter in this thread to much. Like of team is going to just stand and wait for Midnighter to do the things you mentioned. Also this thread is totaly missmatch and needs to be lock. So put your bias at side mod and lock this. Since it violating the rules which say "no missmatches''.

#27 Posted by rudorudo (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Rageverine messed up Mister X's "prediction powers" when he went feral, and although Mister X's low level telepathy is arguably far less inferior to Midnighter's supercomputer - I'm guessing both work by sensing a brain's electrical activity - so maybe if Wolvie was to go feral Midnighter wouldn't be able to predict some of his moves, no?

#28 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: I also fogot to adress Romulus. Midnighter will lose against him alone. Romulous has telepathic abilities and Midnighter has been shown as very weak against telepahty. Even low telepahty is enough to shut down his battle computer (greatv lose for him and no millions of scenarios calculation) and make him totlay dizzy.

#29 Edited by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

Wrong Midnighter is not weak to Telepathy;When Jackson king prevented his brain to receive the computer's signal(which by the way did not prevent him from kicking some a$$)he was able to do it only because he had closely studied the schematics of the implants aand how they interact with Midnighter's brain.In short no he is not vulnerable to telepathy.

#30 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne said:

@Buckshot said:

@TheFallenOne: Hermes could have dodged the nailgun too (unless you think nails move faster than hermes) but it hit him. Hermes' speed was downplayed/overlooked so Ares could hit him.

Simple facts here, lets see if you can follow: When Hermes was using his speed, Ares could not touch him. When Hermes was not using his speed, Ares was able to shoot him in the foot and catch him as he fell.

What makes more sense, that Ares (and a nailgun) is faster than Hermes or that Hermes wasn't using his speed when Ares caught him?

You haven't shown why Midnighter can't defeat anyone in this fight and you haven't shown why the pheromones would prevent Midnighter from taking down Daken.

First of all when Ares atempted to catch him slap him for the first time he wasn't aware that kid was Hermes. And next thing is that after that they were talking, so Hermes was suprised.

Ares will simply throw his axe and Midnighter is dead. Since he hasn't shown so far that he can endure something as powerful as Areses axe or that he can survive his skull being ripped in two. So even with Door he won't be able to defeat Ares, not to mention that Ares totaly outlclasses him

.For pheromones see thread Midnighter vs Daken since i'm not in the od to repeat myself.

Without Door he can't do anything to Wolverine and Wolverine senses would tell him that somehting is worng so he owuld be prepared for Door. But with Door(bFR) alowed i would still give it to Midnighter 6/10. Against Wolverine is rather stealmate since Midnighter is faster than Wolvie in my opinion.

against X-23 is basilcy the same as Wolverine, although even without Door i say Midnighter can best her. Since he is stronger and faster than her.

Anyway any 2 combatants combined are more than enough to defeat Midnighter and in case of Ares is overkill.

And for your fanfiction outcome of the battel there is nothing to confimr it. By the way you over-rated Midnighter in this thread to much. Like of team is going to just stand and wait for Midnighter to do the things you mentioned. Also this thread is totaly missmatch and needs to be lock. So put your bias at side mod and lock this. Since it violating the rules which say "no missmatches''.

You don't get it. Regardless of how you try to spin it, Hermes did not display any speed when Ares caught him. Hermes may HAVE a ton of speed, but if he's not USING it when Ares grabs him, it's not a speed feat for Ares. And even if it were, it wouldn't stand out against the numerous fights in which he's fought at a normal pace. Ares throwing his axe means absolutely nothing for someone who knew he was going to throw the axe from the second the fight started and could dodge it in a wheelchair. I don't think Midnighter needs a Door (and I didn't bring one up so I don't know why you are) but Ares couldn't stop Midnighter from using one. You didn't prove Daken's pheromones would work in that thread either and had no counterpoints for my reasoning as to why they wouldn't work. Midnighter doesn't need a Door to beat Wolverine, especially with Daken present. Midnighter could use Daken's claw to kill everyone in this fight, and Midnighter is fast and strong enough to get it from him. I had overlooked Romulus' telepathy because I honestly don't recall it. Was that an ability he used effectively in combat at any point? And did he use it on people other than Wolverine (which he'd had under his thumbs for decades)? I'd need to see some sort of display of that. Until then though, Midnighter does have some mental defenses. The Engineer gave everyone on the Authority some tech for that and they all later got further upgrades. He's also shown willpower based defenses. Don't know their level of power, but I don't know Romulus' either. Psychic blasts might be effective, but control wouldn't and I doubt Romulus has the telepathic skill (though I'll be waiting for the scans) to do what Jackson King did to Midnighter.

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#31 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

You don't get it. Regardless of how you try to spin it, Hermes did not display any speed when Ares caught him. Hermes may HAVE a ton of speed, but if he's not USING it when Ares grabs him, it's not a speed feat for Ares. And even if it were, it wouldn't stand out against the numerous fights in which he's fought at a normal pace. Ares throwing his axe means absolutely nothing for someone who knew he was going to throw the axe from the second the fight started and could dodge it in a wheelchair. I don't think Midnighter needs a Door (and I didn't bring one up so I don't know why you are) but Ares couldn't stop Midnighter from using one. You didn't prove Daken's pheromones would work in that thread either and had no counterpoints for my reasoning as to why they wouldn't work. Midnighter doesn't need a Door to beat Wolverine, especially with Daken present. Midnighter could use Daken's claw to kill everyone in this fight, and Midnighter is fast and strong enough to get it from him. I had overlooked Romulus' telepathy because I honestly don't recall it. Was that an ability he used effectively in combat at any point? And did he use it on people other than Wolverine (which he'd had under his thumbs for decades)? I'd need to see some sort of display of that. Until then though, Midnighter does have some mental defenses. The Engineer gave everyone on the Authority some tech for that and they all later got further upgrades. He's also shown willpower based defenses. Don't know their level of power, but I don't know Romulus' either. Psychic blasts might be effective, but control wouldn't and I doubt Romulus has the telepathic skill (though I'll be waiting for the scans) to do what Jackson King did to Midnighter.

His implants are easily shut down

Note that Jackson wasn't even trying to mindrape him he only did what he said. Shut down his computer. And on the middle panel we clearly see that Midnighter "felt the attack". Romulus won't be so generous to Midnighter. Bolded part is simly your fanfiction. Also Midnighter needs Door if he wants to score against Logan. Without that it's stealmate, and very possible even in Logan's favor because of the senses.

And Daken can effect Midnighter. His battle cimputer can't overcome that simply because pheromones aren't toxins. they trigger social behavior and are sometimes classified as ecto-hormones. Midnighter doesn'e have a single feat whch would indicate that he could prevent Daken from manipulating him. Also Romulus telepathy limit is unknown. He is powerful enough to be able to delete many parts of memory (deleted many part sof Logans life), can cost issuion in minds of others, etc... He is powerful enough for Charles considering him a threat and having to help his team in order to overcome Romulus assaults. The defense Enginner gave is to what Midnighter refers as "tamper proof" and it's precticly defense against direct aproach to implants, not telepathic like you claim.

On the other hand you're the one who hasn't proven his point . SInce all the things you posted is simply a fan fiction. Using Daken's claw ? Like if everybody is going to stand and alw the to be stabbed, not to mention that everybody here have impressive helaing factor (even Ares) and everybody excluding Ares can even heal brain injuries. Your continuation on this only proves your bias, since Midnighter doesn't stand a chance against team and yet you're over-rating him and presenting as he has. This is bad for someone who is considered as valid debater as you Buckshot.

#32 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: To end this meaningles battle

read his powers chart. Midnighter can't do anything to Ares, after all Midnighter isn't Sentry. Even Daken's or Logan's blades can't do anything to Ares (so even i underestimated him and by searcing his respect thread i'm 100% convinced).

I know that you won't let your favorite character lose no matter what but in this case Midnighter is outclassed by several orders of magnitude, so even you should have limit to what degree you hype your preferd character.

#33 Posted by The_Warlord (1777 posts) - - Show Bio

If he can take Jack Hawksmoor and Martian Manhunter down in one move, I could see him taking on the team

#34 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Warlord said:

If he can take Jack Hawksmoor and Martian Manhunter down in one move, I could see him taking on the team

We don't even know how powerful are those in new 52. Also ever heard of PIS ?

By the way upload of the above scan, since minimization didn't worked when posted.

#35 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne: Jackson is a massively skilled telepath and his SPECIALTY is messing with the brain where it intersects with technology. That's why I said I don't think Romulus has the skill to reproduce the feat. Could you show me otherwise? I also asked for some display of him using his telepathy in combat.

As for the pheromones, you didn't respond to this when I posted it in the other thread: I don't think the pheromones will affect Midnighter. Assuming they need to be inhaled (I'm not sure about this but I've asked before about it and no one has said otherwise or shown evidence) then Midnighter could simply not breathe for the whole fight. He's shown he doesn't need to breathe when he was surviving fine on the surface of Mars while Grifter passed out and when he was taking on all challengers in an airless part of the Carrier (and winning of course). If they don't need to be inhaled I'd leave it to his healing factor to keep him protected long enough to win this fight. His displays in the virus-filled space station, against AIDS, and the pheromones of Assassin8 all suggest he'd last more than long enough to put a fist through Daken's head since he knows exactly how Daken is going to move.

As for an example of resisting behavior modification, when Godhead mentally took him over and tried to modify his behavior (like he had done to 70% of the planet), he couldn't get it to work. Also, the defenses Engineer gave the whole team was something separate from what he was referring to when he said they were tamperproof. Engineer gave him telepathic defenses right after the Godhead incident, so he has telepathic defenses as well as tampering defenses.

I think it's ridiculous that when I say someone gets hit it means its because the other person "stood there and allowed themselves to be stabbed". You know how much damage Wolverine, X-23 and those guys take when they fight? They get hurt all the time, and they're always fighting back, so why is it when I say Midnighter stabs them, it MUST be because they allowed it to happen. Daken's is bone. It can be broken. Once it's broken. Midnighter can rip out the blade and start killing people with it. Hell, he doesn't even need to break the arm off first. I'm fairly confident that when it was being put in he was told that he had to be careful with it since it didn't have the support of his body since it couldn't touch him or it would hurt him. Midnighter could probably rip it off in the middle of his attack. Then all he'd have to do is go to town on the rest of them like they normally do to each other, and the beauty of the muramasa blades is that they nullify healing factors so them being able to heal the damage suddenly isn't true.

Troll better, at least make it interesting.

Moderator
#36 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: Talk about a constant thorn at your side...lol

#37 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@TheFallenOne: Jackson is a massively skilled telepath and his SPECIALTY is messing with the brain where it intersects with technology. That's why I said I don't think Romulus has the skill to reproduce the feat. Could you show me otherwise? I also asked for some display of him using his telepathy in combat.

As for the pheromones, you didn't respond to this when I posted it in the other thread: I don't think the pheromones will affect Midnighter. Assuming they need to be inhaled (I'm not sure about this but I've asked before about it and no one has said otherwise or shown evidence) then Midnighter could simply not breathe for the whole fight. He's shown he doesn't need to breathe when he was surviving fine on the surface of Mars while Grifter passed out and when he was taking on all challengers in an airless part of the Carrier (and winning of course). If they don't need to be inhaled I'd leave it to his healing factor to keep him protected long enough to win this fight. His displays in the virus-filled space station, against AIDS, and the pheromones of Assassin8 all suggest he'd last more than long enough to put a fist through Daken's head since he knows exactly how Daken is going to move.

As for an example of resisting behavior modification, when Godhead mentally took him over and tried to modify his behavior (like he had done to 70% of the planet), he couldn't get it to work. Also, the defenses Engineer gave the whole team was something separate from what he was referring to when he said they were tamperproof. Engineer gave him telepathic defenses right after the Godhead incident, so he has telepathic defenses as well as tampering defenses.

I think it's ridiculous that when I say someone gets hit it means its because the other person "stood there and allowed themselves to be stabbed". You know how much damage Wolverine, X-23 and those guys take when they fight? They get hurt all the time, and they're always fighting back, so why is it when I say Midnighter stabs them, it MUST be because they allowed it to happen. Daken's is bone. It can be broken. Once it's broken. Midnighter can rip out the blade and start killing people with it. Hell, he doesn't even need to break the arm off first. I'm fairly confident that when it was being put in he was told that he had to be careful with it since it didn't have the support of his body since it couldn't touch him or it would hurt him. Midnighter could probably rip it off in the middle of his attack. Then all he'd have to do is go to town on the rest of them like they normally do to each other, and the beauty of the muramasa blades is that they nullify healing factors so them being able to heal the damage suddenly isn't true.

Troll better, at least make it interesting.

First of all he doesn't have his Muramasa Blades any more (although were implicated that he might regrown them but without Muramasa cloathing). So that indicates that you know very little on character and yet dare to debate. Also his bone claws are far denser and tougher than human, since they can easily penetrate Iron Man's armour and have sharp both edges. So Midnighter grabbing them would result in him losing his hand, not to mention that he for sure isn't strong enough to break them. And if you check the scan i posted Ares can't be killed by like sof Wolverine, daken, Romulus and X-23. Plus Ares will take control of every weapon Midnighter has.

Second it wasn't specificly state dif his pheromone manipulation is physical or psionic. And his pheromones alter perception and emotional state of others, so can you at least comprehand this time that it isn't the same as Aids, heorine, etc... ? Also scan i posted showed us that with minor psi blast King was able to shake Midnighter of his stand and eaisly block his implants. I also already posted what can Romulu do with his psi ablities.

Third Revender easily enterd his mind so stop lying. Also Engineer didn't gave him any telepathic defense stop lying for that one also.

He also had troubles with breathing when he was above cloud range and Apollo came to save him. And for sure he want be able to hold his breath for the all fight. Anyway he won't even last very long so breath holding is irrelevent.

He loses this one and losses it badly. And what you need to do is to stop overrating Wildstorm and to post lies about you preferable characters since it's anyoing. You can do that to the rest of the Vines who won't even dare questioning your statements. But I will and i'll prove to anyone that you're taking things out of contest, posting hypes and lies, posting fan fiction. You should be a shame of your self. Since you're one of the most valid debater here and mod, so you shouldn't do such things. So far you have proved that you're Wildstorm fanboy, who constantly trolls threads with his fanfiction. You're the single mod on the net who trolls the forum rather to do his job well.

#38 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne: Look at when the thread was made. The version of the character that was current then is what we're talking about now. Just because you only bumped it today doesn't mean everything changes. I don't know why you think Ares' bio suggests he can't be killed by the likes of Wolverine. It specifically says he can be wounded and it specifically lists blades as something that can harm him. Then we get into the fact that these are the muramasa claws and it's pretty much settled. Ares will survive, but he's not going to be fighting with one of those claws lodged in his brain.

Pheromones are physical. They are chemicals that, when taken into the body, prompt social responses and emotional changes. Midnighter doesn't have to allow these in if he doesn't breathe them in, and even if he did, his body would treat them like anything else foreign and attack it. Assassin8 had a specially made chemical to affect Midnighter and Midnighter was able to hold off its affects for much longer than he should have been able to (he was supposed to go down in under thirty seconds but fought evenly against Assassin8 for what appeared to be minutes and then was immune to it when they had their rematch). So Midnighter won't be exposed to the pheromones and even if he is, he could last long enough to kill Daken before they affect him.

As for psychic attacks, King didn't psi blast Midnighter and I have no clue what you're talking about when you say Midnighter was "shaken off his stand". Until you can show me some reason to believe Romulus has the kind of skill King does, there's nothing more to say here. Heck, you haven't even shown me that Romulus can use his telepathy in combat. How do I know it's not something he needs time or focus for? I don't know who "Revender" is but if you're talking about Godhead, I didn't deny that Godhead was able to take him over. What I said was that he couldn't get Midnighter to do what he wanted (confess that being gay was a sin on tv), and that's true. And when he got broken out of Godhead's prison, he get an upgrade to his telepathy bug for more psychic protection.

Midnighter had an air tank when he was talking to Apollo in the upper atmosphere. The other two times I mentioned he didn't need any such assistance. I always assumed it was because he was spending the time talking with Apollo and air is kind of integral to speech. Even if you don't need to breathe, air needs to be present for sound. Even if that's not the case though, two instances of him not needing air (and engaging in strenuous activity) beat your one.

Moderator
#39 Posted by Thepowercosmic (940 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Edited by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFallenOne: Lies;what lies ? He merely read the comics;he did not simply read the wiki and pull scans from the net...Scans whose contexts you do not even know most often than not.Also I find it rich YOU saying that Buckshot Hypes the Midnighter while YOU are the one that's totally biaised and is downplaying him just because you do not like him nor the Authority.Oh and when I made this thread Daken HAD the Muramasa claw;so he does have them in this fight.
@Thepowercosmic: Nice scans here man.
#41 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thor's hammmer said:
ares solos
#42 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Thor's hammmer said:
ares solos

Nah.

#43 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Thor's hammmer said:
ares solos

Nah.


How come?
#44 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed, probably.

#45 Posted by Saren (25326 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter.

Moderator
#46 Edited by God_Spawn (37381 posts) - - Show Bio

Hermes can't even dodge a nail gun, either that is major PIS, or just plain pathetic, Ares shouldn't be able to tag people like Wolverine, he has zero to hardly any reflex and speed feats to suggest he can other than a handbook bio that I have seen and have asked plenty of other people to provide which they fail to do. Like his speed is stated as super, he is also a high level fighter but again has zero feats to show this which I have people have failed to provide when I asked in other threads. His whole fighting experience comes from fighting and over powering thousands of people with sticks and stones. I wouldn't even say he is better than moon knight in fighting based off feats. All he has got going for him here is strength and durability, MN has a few ways to deal with him here winning using KO'd ferals, or BFR;ing him. Don't know if MN can put Ares down via his own strength.

Moderator Online
#47 Posted by Saren (25326 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Thor's hammmer said:
ares solos

Nah.

How come?

He's already killed people stronger and faster than Ares.

Moderator
#48 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@TheFallenOne: Look at when the thread was made. The version of the character that was current then is what we're talking about now. Just because you only bumped it today doesn't mean everything changes. I don't know why you think Ares' bio suggests he can't be killed by the likes of Wolverine. It specifically says he can be wounded and it specifically lists blades as something that can harm him. Then we get into the fact that these are the muramasa claws and it's pretty much settled. Ares will survive, but he's not going to be fighting with one of those claws lodged in his brain.

Pheromones are physical. They are chemicals that, when taken into the body, prompt social responses and emotional changes. Midnighter doesn't have to allow these in if he doesn't breathe them in, and even if he did, his body would treat them like anything else foreign and attack it. Assassin8 had a specially made chemical to affect Midnighter and Midnighter was able to hold off its affects for much longer than he should have been able to (he was supposed to go down in under thirty seconds but fought evenly against Assassin8 for what appeared to be minutes and then was immune to it when they had their rematch). So Midnighter won't be exposed to the pheromones and even if he is, he could last long enough to kill Daken before they affect him.

As for psychic attacks, King didn't psi blast Midnighter and I have no clue what you're talking about when you say Midnighter was "shaken off his stand". Until you can show me some reason to believe Romulus has the kind of skill King does, there's nothing more to say here. Heck, you haven't even shown me that Romulus can use his telepathy in combat. How do I know it's not something he needs time or focus for? I don't know who "Revender" is but if you're talking about Godhead, I didn't deny that Godhead was able to take him over. What I said was that he couldn't get Midnighter to do what he wanted (confess that being gay was a sin on tv), and that's true. And when he got broken out of Godhead's prison, he get an upgrade to his telepathy bug for more psychic protection.

Midnighter had an air tank when he was talking to Apollo in the upper atmosphere. The other two times I mentioned he didn't need any such assistance. I always assumed it was because he was spending the time talking with Apollo and air is kind of integral to speech. Even if you don't need to breathe, air needs to be present for sound. Even if that's not the case though, two instances of him not needing air (and engaging in strenuous activity) beat your one.

And i don't think why are you keeping up with your scenario. First of all Daken doens't have Muramasa Blades anymore. Logan cut them. Second even his regular bone claws are too tough for Midnighter to rip (they can easily pierce and cut Iron man's armour). Not to mention that their edges are to sharp for Midnighter to grab them and not to cut his hand of.

Here he ripped cut Areses axe with just his bone claws (not Muramasa). So unless you prove that Midnighter is more durable that Olympian weapons than your scenario won't happen.

By the ay midnighter has never shown any strenght feat which would suggest he is strong enough to rip Muramasa blades, heck he lacks strength feats in order for him to be able to rip Daken's bone claws. So your scenario won't happen. About Romulus, he is powerful telepath, even more powerful than Jackson without the suit.

Romulus made Daken resistant to telepathy, and set a telepathic trap in his brain for other psi users. Even Miss Sinister is in danger and she is on par with Emma Frost, has Xaviers telepahtic abilities also and has complete molecular - psi control ove rher body. She can also shut down any mutant power easily. So is this enough evidance for you ? And to be honest there is no denying Romulus can mind-rape Midnighter.

So for how long can Midnighter hold his breath ? Also you forgot one very importatnt thing. Daken, Wolverine, X-23 and Romulus can all shut down their sense making Midnighter's tactial sense useless.

By the way Midnighter actually has no mean to kill Daken unless he uses Door to BFR him to the Sun

Daken burned

This is what's left of him only ashed and he regenerated. So the only thing would be BFR into the Sun. But Midnighter would need to push him like he did to that girl when using Door to bfr her out of the atmosphere. And it woould result in his death also. (Those scan also settel the Midnighter vs Daken thread which would result in stealmate unless pheromones used).

I think that's it's clear for you that you overestimated Midnighter to much and underestimated this team (and other street levelers in general). Midnighter is in top tier of street levelers but he is not the top street leveler. He might have showings with class 100 opponents (like Apollo), but also those guys have even more showings against class 100 (especially wolverine) and if we go by that logic than each and every one of the automaticly wins because they have foguth opponents far stronger than Midnighter (for example Hulk who's strength is way above's Apollo - weaker than strength of 13 000 000 people).

As you see Daken has no chance against this team. No be a good moderator and lock this thread since this is settled down.

#49 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne: Continue to ignore it when both common sense and the OP have said that daken has the muramasa claws in this fight, but it will continue to be true. You also still haven't displayed any examples of Romulus using TP in combat or even him having the skill that Jackson King has with brains, which would be less like messing with memories and more like what Emma Frost does with her psychic surgery. As for Daken’s healing factor, it would be negated by his own claws. That said, I don’t think the evidence you provided for his healing factor is accurate. Now, I don’t recall the comic exactly, but I remember that being a ploy to get Johnny to think he was dead while he was actually safe elsewhere. I’m pretty sure he’s not the bag of ashes. Even if he were though, incapacitation counts as a win.And you continue to stand by the idea that Midnighter would have to push someone through a door even though evidence has been provided that directly contradicts that. I don’t know where you get the idea that he’d die if he tried it from since he’s done it without dying before.

OP says Daken has muramasa claws - you deny it

Muramasa claws could be broken off of Daken’s arm because they aren’t as securely connected as his other claws and Midnighter has superhuman strength - you deny it

Muramasa claws can cut through anyone here and negate their healing factor for the KO -you deny it

I’ve asked you to show where Romulus displayed the skill needed to duplicate King’s feat or any other psychic feat in combat (because it’s your only valid point) - you have not (can not?)

Clear evidence has been shown that Doors don’t need to be walked through to work - you deny it

Midnighter has survived unaided in space (once without his powers) at least twice - you deny it

Everything you're basing your argument on is either wrong or unproven. Try harder.

Moderator
#50 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot said:

@TheFallenOne: Continue to ignore it when both common sense and the OP have said that daken has the muramasa claws in this fight, but it will continue to be true. You also still haven't displayed any examples of Romulus using TP in combat or even him having the skill that Jackson King has with brains, which would be less like messing with memories and more like what Emma Frost does with her psychic surgery. As for Daken’s healing factor, it would be negated by his own claws. That said, I don’t think the evidence you provided for his healing factor is accurate. Now, I don’t recall the comic exactly, but I remember that being a ploy to get Johnny to think he was dead while he was actually safe elsewhere. I’m pretty sure he’s not the bag of ashes. Even if he were though, incapacitation counts as a win.And you continue to stand by the idea that Midnighter would have to push someone through a door even though evidence has been provided that directly contradicts that. I don’t know where you get the idea that he’d die if he tried it from since he’s done it without dying before.

OP says Daken has muramasa claws - you deny it

Muramasa claws could be broken off of Daken’s arm because they aren’t as securely connected as his other claws and Midnighter has superhuman strength - you deny it

Muramasa claws can cut through anyone here and negate their healing factor for the KO -you deny it

I’ve asked you to show where Romulus displayed the skill needed to duplicate King’s feat or any other psychic feat in combat (because it’s your only valid point) - you have not (can not?)

Clear evidence has been shown that Doors don’t need to be walked through to work - you deny it

Midnighter has survived unaided in space (once without his powers) at least twice - you deny it

Everything you're basing your argument on is either wrong or unproven. Try harder.

read OP it doens't say anything about Muramasa blades. I'm busy right now and i'll reply later to show you how wrong you are.