Middle-Earth vs Tamriel

Is the Dovahkiin allowed?

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

@Baldy said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

I know nothing about Elderscrolls.

Hence why I stated what I did.

Tamriel most likely.

Elderscrolls ftw imo The might Fallen of Sovengarde for one will take some beating.

Then theres Alduin the Dragon & the mighty Akatosh who can control time.

MIddle Earth wins because they have the wizards who are extremely powerful and far out rank the Tamriel races...plus there are many other powerful races including THE DRAGONS which should prove to be quite the headache...

2nd battle is without a doubt Middle Earth's victory they have a omnipotent leader...Eru, so they win.

I see that many here know about Tamriel, but, apparently, few know about Arda, or even Middle-earth, that JRR Tolkien, the most brilliant writer of fantasy books of the last century, created.

TES has the Nine Divines, but Middle-earth and, therefore, Arda have Eru Illúvatar. Much of the Christian God is in it, considering that Tolkien was Catholic, even the author saying dislike allegory. And Eru, known by elves as Illúvatar, has the Secret Fire, which gives life to the things.

Then Eru creates the Ainur, which are like archangels. The Ainur are divided into two castes: the Valar and the Maiar.

The Valar are the most powerful and the maiar are less powerful then Maiar. Melkor was the most powerful of the Ainur, but rebelled and became evil and was named Morgoth.

Detail: all this occurred before exist World or Time.

Although I have placed the Nine Divines along with Eru, I think they are more for Valar than for Eru.

So it's like this:

God:

Eru Illúvatar

Valar:

Manwë

Oromë

Lórien

Mandos

Tulkas

Aulë

Ulmo

Valyer (The woman/queen Valar)

Varda

Yavanna

Nienna

Estë

Vairë

Nessa

Vána

And the ex-Valar and personification of evil:

Melkor/Morgoth

About the Maiar, many of them serve the Valar and help maintain the Creation. Some of these are Maiar:

Irmarë, Eönwë, Ossë, Uinen, Melian, Sauron, Olorin (Gandalf), Curumo (Saruman) and many others that I can not remember now.

Yes Sauron was a Maiar, like Balrogs were once (ie, both Sauron and the Balrogs may very well with deadra). Continuing, Sauron was seduced by Morgoth and became his most faithful servant. Olorin, Curumo and three other Maiar were sent to Middle-earth by the gods (it is how man call the Valar) to help in the fight against Sauron long after the fall of Morgoth. Olorin became Gandalf, Curunnir became Saruman and other three Maiar become wizards, or even the Istari.

About the dragons, we have: Glaurung, Ancalagon the Black, Scatha the Worm, and Smaug. There have been many dragons, but these stand out. All were created by Morgoth in the First Age, being Smaug the last of the dragons.

About magic, using it in Arda is more complicated yes, but she, by consequent, is more powerful. And only beings that Eru is thought to be magical have magiv inherent in his existence, as the elves, for example.

Well, here I wanted to explain to you a little bit of Middle-earth and Arda say that everything has to withstand any attack that comes from the universe of TES.

Stay well!

NOTE: This is a brief explanation. So much more has to be revealed about what Tolkien created because it is too complex and to be compared with other creations is very complicated. This is a brief sketch, therefore, and can be supplemented, corrected, or replicated by anyone! By the way, excuse my bad English.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

*nods* Planet is Nirn.

Without deities either Aedra/ Daedra, or Eru/Ainer (urgh, been ages since I read anything to do with LOTR)....I'll still give this to TES. The Altmer are wry beings, they'll probably find a way. Plus Magic/Magicka is more "wide spread" in Tamriel/Nirn...would at least tip the scales in their favour.

@Pwok21 said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Tamriel most likely.

I do not think that Anu has made things more significant than Eru. Anu warred with Padomay and everything was created. That's what I know.

As for Eru, he created the Ainur, gave them the theme of Ainulindalë and, through its Secret Fire and his command, everything was created. And he maintains the creation through the Valar and Maiar. For exemple, when Manwë needed him most, in Akallabêth, Eru helped and remould the face of the world.

So, despite being a big fan of what Tolkien and admire much of the TES universe, I think the battle between Arda and Nirn ends in a draw.

@The Lone Wanderer:

Arda's armies are too weak? Guess you never heard of the War of Wrath. What about the Nazgul, I think you also never heard about the Black Shadow ... And there is no magic in Arda, there is sub-creativity. Only Eru has creativity, the Ainur, Istari, elves and dwarves have sub-creativity: the power to shape the substances that only Eru can create. If Tamriel try to invade Arda, which is ridiculous and inconceivable (whereas that magic in TES have to be more dynamic because it is a game, unlike Tolkien's works [literature, that is grately reflected in the game]), and the spells work in different in these two worlds, the armies of altimer would be useful as a gang of orcs.

@Moonchilde:

Maybe you do not remember this in "The Lord of the Rings", both books and movies, because most of the dragons of the the First Age, created by Morgoth, were killed or were "out of service". And it also seems that the dragons of Morgoth and his successors seem to be more powerful than those of Tamriel, which would make impossible to kill them just by fist. But that's just my opinion. In "The Hobbit", Smaug, the last fire-drake and descendant of Glaurung (or Ancalagon, now I can not remember) was killed precisely to prevent that dragons were used in the War of the Ring - though his killer don't had that in mind (but Gandalf had, since he had met with the White Council to report on the Dragon and the Necromancer of Dol Guldur)

@Moonchilde: Well, it was not simply an arrow, but a Black Arrow, that never misses his target that the shooter attempts. And Smaug had just a tiny little place in his belly that has not scales and was without the protection of the jewelry in that particular part. Smaug was a very powerful dragon, but not was lucky when attacked Esgaroth.

Whereas it is a game, it's easy you take a certain level and only kill creatures with punches. The dragons and giants (ents and the stone giants of the Misty Mountains) are not the kind of easy kill. Glaurung geve much work to Túrin Turambar.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

Nirn is the entire world/realm of TES, it's too many races. The Deadric Princes and The Aedra would win this in a few seconds.

Can Tamriel use the Dragonborn and the Dragons? Cuz if so they can beat most anybody middle earth has got.

@Moonchilde: Ah, yes. But this is the reality of the game. The reality of the books are totally different and should be considered. As I said before, any of the races in Tamriel lose they powers in Arda: the magic does not exist there, what exists there is sub-creativity. And only have sub-creativity those who Eru thought in Ainulindallë (the Ainur in Arda, the Istari (because they are incarnated Ainur), elves and dwarves).

@Frocharocha: This is the problem. I do not know how there could be a battle, and the two worlds are so distinct and put them on "neutral ground" is hard to imagine because it would be difficult to balance things considering that we only knows the behavior of both sides within their own contexts.

@Frocharocha said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

Nirn is the entire world/realm of TES, it's too many races. The Deadric Princes and The Aedra would win this in a few seconds. If Eru is alowed. Everyone would be dead and the Deadric Princes would battle him forever.@earendilgb said:

Whereas Arda only ends when Eru wants (Tolkien is adamant about it), he would fight forever with the Daedra, while Arda would be there, floating in the Void (and not sure if everything would be destroyed there).

Low magic fantasy like LOTR can't beat high magic fantasy like TES or Faerun without divine intervention or grossly superior numbers, ever. If we get into Divine Intervention, then the Aedra and Daedra are going to be playing planetary paddle ball with the Valar. You're going to be having Sheogorath and Akatosh taking turns batting planets around with Morgoth and Tulkas...which actually sounds ridiculously awesome. However, LOTR does seem to have that Numerical advantage; mainly from Sauron; the kingdoms of Men, Dwarves, and Elves apparently were crappy at making babies.

Although Spacebattles made a very good case for Napoleonic France being able to defeat or at least carve a massive chunk out of Tamriel or Faerun and stomp on third age mordor. To be fair, to destroy the major powers of Tamriel and Faerun, Napoleon was conceded to have required getting to know how magic works and incorporating it into his army, but overall his ridiculously larger population base would carry the day.

During the third age, Mordor could be said to have 2 million combat capable orcs, maybe about a million or so auxiliaries if you tally up the wargs, trolls, evil-men, and such who flocked to Sauron's banner. Mordor also outnumbered the other lands of middle earth by a ridiculous margin, so they probably would be a drop in the bucket of manpower. The Septim Empire at it's peak could afford to dispatch four legions across the sea into Akavir, a fairly distant continent. Assuming that Tamriel's legions=Roman legions, that's a logistical capability to sustain twenty four thousand men over a cross-continental invasion.

If I remember my TES lore right, the Septim Empire at it's peak had about 50ish legions, so 300k men plus the local guards who were all decently well equipped and trained; I'd peg the guards at around 400kish total; it is worth noting that the guards would likely lack the logistical base to really forray beyond their cities, so they'd only help in defense. So Sauron will have a big numerical advantage. 10 to 1 in fact. Orcs are hilariously crappy fighters and I'd expect any casualty rates to be heavily skewed