#1 Posted by Pistolwhip1 (842 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
Middle- Earth (Tolkien) vs Tamriel (Elder Scrolls) 
 
These two fantasy worlds go to war with each other. Who will win? 
 
First Battle: 
 •Winner by destruction of world, capture, or surrender of enemy. 
• All races are allowed in the fight. 
• No deities in this battle 
• Magic is allowed (Wizards, sorcerers, etc.) 
• Both worlds have three months to prepare.   

 
 
Second Battle: 
•Battle between deities.  
• Winner by destruction, concealment, banishment.  

#2 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

Is the Dovahkiin allowed?

#3 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

#4 Posted by KMART4455 (1290 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Yep.

That being said

Im going with Tamriel.

Especially if my characters are in play lol (only kidding) but seriously I could wipe middle earth out....

#5 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

Moderator
#6 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

I know nothing about Elderscrolls.

#7 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

I know nothing about Elderscrolls.

Hence why I stated what I did.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Skyfire (726 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Tamriel call on Daedra?

#9 Posted by Pistolwhip1 (842 posts) - - Show Bio
@Skyfire said:

Can Tamriel call on Daedra?

The regular one's, not the Deadra lords such as Sheogorath, Malkath, etc.  
So one's such as these:; 
 
  
 
 
Middle-Earth can have the Balrog. 
 
#10 Posted by Skyfire (726 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pistolwhip1 said:

@Skyfire said:

Can Tamriel call on Daedra?

The regular one's, not the Deadra lords such as Sheogorath, Malkath, etc.
So one's such as these:;




Middle-Earth can have the Balrog.

Cool.

I'll give this to Tamriel so. The Daedra armies in addition to their own should be enough.

#11 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20164 posts) - - Show Bio

Tamriel most likely.

#12 Posted by Pwok21 (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Tamriel most likely.

#13 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4706 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering that level twenty characters are peak elves/orcs/sexy cats and middle earth people cry over the simplest of things, middle earth wins. No one could survive that weepy, wallowy tear flood.

#14 Posted by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

Elderscrolls ftw imo The might Fallen of Sovengarde for one will take some beating.

Then theres Alduin the Dragon & the mighty Akatosh who can control time.

#15 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9190 posts) - - Show Bio
@Chaos Prime said:

Elderscrolls ftw imo The might Fallen of Sovengarde for one will take some beating.

Then theres Alduin the Dragon & the mighty Akatosh who can control time.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

MIddle Earth wins because they have the wizards who are extremely powerful and far out rank the Tamriel races...plus there are many other powerful races including THE DRAGONS which should prove to be quite the headache...

2nd battle is without a doubt Middle Earth's victory they have a omnipotent leader...Eru, so they win.


What about Sithis? Or Anu, the deities that made creation? 
#16 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12036 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueLantern1995 said:

MIddle Earth wins because they have the wizards who are extremely powerful and far out rank the Tamriel races...plus there are many other powerful races including THE DRAGONS which should prove to be quite the headache...

2nd battle is without a doubt Middle Earth's victory they have a omnipotent leader...Eru, so they win.

this tells me you know little to nothing about TES lore .... Tamriel stomps ....

TES has 9 divine gods,

Akatosh, Dibella, Zenithar, Mara, Stendarr, Kynareth, Julianos, Arkay, and the once mortal god Talos

17 reality warping Deadric Gods,

a freaking dragon god .... Alduin

Colleges of magic schools everywhere called the Mages Guild

Two groups of warrior bands called the Fighters Guild and the Companions

A group of monks that can make the earth shake and lightning strike by speaking .... the Greybeards

and thats not all, but you get the point ... you really didn't know about this anyway but to say one side wins without even knowing what the other side is isn't the way to go .......

Middle Earth has nothing on the Oblivion Crisis ....

#17 Posted by niBBit (718 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Sithis beyond creation or something? The Emtpy Void. IIRC Sithis and some other guy are responsible for the creaton of the world of Elderscrolls. Whatever Tamriel takes this rather easily. They have an shitload of magic wielders like the early wielder from Summerset Isles etc.. who can stop time, destroy entire fortresses, control the weather and have powerfull artifacts like The Elder Scrolls. Each Deity can call up on there personal army to help, Deity's that can influence Luck among other things, army of Dragons etc etc Tamriel takes this.

#18 Posted by Fortified_Hooligan (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic is much more prolific in Elder Scrolls. Dude for dude, you can be more powerful in elder scrolls than in Lotr.

#19 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I see that many here know about Tamriel, but, apparently, few know about Arda, or even Middle-earth, that JRR Tolkien, the most brilliant writer of fantasy books of the last century, created.

TES has the Nine Divines, but Middle-earth and, therefore, Arda have Eru Illúvatar. Much of the Christian God is in it, considering that Tolkien was Catholic, even the author saying dislike allegory. And Eru, known by elves as Illúvatar, has the Secret Fire, which gives life to the things.

Then Eru creates the Ainur, which are like archangels. The Ainur are divided into two castes: the Valar and the Maiar.

The Valar are the most powerful and the maiar are less powerful then Maiar. Melkor was the most powerful of the Ainur, but rebelled and became evil and was named Morgoth.

Detail: all this occurred before exist World or Time.

Although I have placed the Nine Divines along with Eru, I think they are more for Valar than for Eru.

So it's like this:

God:

Eru Illúvatar

Valar:

Manwë

Oromë

Lórien

Mandos

Tulkas

Aulë

Ulmo

Valyer (The woman/queen Valar)

Varda

Yavanna

Nienna

Estë

Vairë

Nessa

Vána

And the ex-Valar and personification of evil:

Melkor/Morgoth

About the Maiar, many of them serve the Valar and help maintain the Creation. Some of these are Maiar:

Irmarë, Eönwë, Ossë, Uinen, Melian, Sauron, Olorin (Gandalf), Curumo (Saruman) and many others that I can not remember now.

Yes Sauron was a Maiar, like Balrogs were once (ie, both Sauron and the Balrogs may very well with deadra). Continuing, Sauron was seduced by Morgoth and became his most faithful servant. Olorin, Curumo and three other Maiar were sent to Middle-earth by the gods (it is how man call the Valar) to help in the fight against Sauron long after the fall of Morgoth. Olorin became Gandalf, Curunnir became Saruman and other three Maiar become wizards, or even the Istari.

About the dragons, we have: Glaurung, Ancalagon the Black, Scatha the Worm, and Smaug. There have been many dragons, but these stand out. All were created by Morgoth in the First Age, being Smaug the last of the dragons.

About magic, using it in Arda is more complicated yes, but she, by consequent, is more powerful. And only beings that Eru is thought to be magical have magiv inherent in his existence, as the elves, for example.

Well, here I wanted to explain to you a little bit of Middle-earth and Arda say that everything has to withstand any attack that comes from the universe of TES.

Stay well!

NOTE: This is a brief explanation. So much more has to be revealed about what Tolkien created because it is too complex and to be compared with other creations is very complicated. This is a brief sketch, therefore, and can be supplemented, corrected, or replicated by anyone! By the way, excuse my bad English.

#20 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1. Champion of Cyrodiil solos. He is a mortal, (unless you want to disqualify him due to ascending to godhood later on) yet he was more powerful than Jyggalag, the highest tier reality warping planet busting god that still exists in our dimension.

Round 2. Impossible to call. It would, at best, be an abstract theoretical argument of omnipotence vs omnipotence, which by its very nature makes no sense. If you want to go strictly by feats and not stated power, Anu has done more significant things than Eru.

#21 Edited by RedQueen (1171 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

*nods* Planet is Nirn.

Without deities either Aedra/ Daedra, or Eru/Ainer (urgh, been ages since I read anything to do with LOTR)....I'll still give this to TES. The Altmer are wry beings, they'll probably find a way. Plus Magic/Magicka is more "wide spread" in Tamriel/Nirn...would at least tip the scales in their favour.

#22 Edited by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Tamriel. Stormcloaks, Imperials, Thalmor, Honestly these armies are huge. Thalmor are beast magic wielders. Then you got the Nine Divines(already stated above). Btw Tamriel's races have special abilities that come into play like Dark elves are highly resistant to Fire/Heat. Nords are highly resistant to Ice/Cold. The Orcs and Redguards with Beserk and Adrenaline Rush. Next you got some freaks in Tamriel such as the Natives(Forsworn) Vampires, Werwolves,Falmer and Deadras. If you are going to include the lands creatures then you got Sabre Cats, Bears, Trolls, Giants, Mammoths, Dragons. Last but not least you've got the Dovahkiin.

#23 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though the majority of TES games are mediocre (imo), they would edge it out in a tough war.

#24 Posted by Vengance101 (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pwok21 said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Tamriel most likely.

#25 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not think that Anu has made things more significant than Eru. Anu warred with Padomay and everything was created. That's what I know.

As for Eru, he created the Ainur, gave them the theme of Ainulindalë and, through its Secret Fire and his command, everything was created. And he maintains the creation through the Valar and Maiar. For exemple, when Manwë needed him most, in Akallabêth, Eru helped and remould the face of the world.

So, despite being a big fan of what Tolkien and admire much of the TES universe, I think the battle between Arda and Nirn ends in a draw.

#26 Posted by The Lone Wanderer (1448 posts) - - Show Bio

Tamriel stomps. High magic fantasy always trumps low magic fantasy. Magic is god damn everywhere and can do some crazy stuff in the elder scrolls, magic is much rarer and lower key in tolkien's work. This spells more or less automatic defeat for the conventional armies of arda. The ring wraiths for example, while considered dangerous, nigh unstoppable, and freakishly powerful masters of swords and sorcery in midle earth, would be cannon fodder in a TES game, something for a lich or dragon priest to toss at you to keep you at bay. Their magic is just far too weak. Not to mention, arda's armies are easily frightened by middle earth's magic, most of them will panic and run when they find out that a legion or thalmor army can bury them in spells far beyond the relative party tricks that their much rarer sorcerers can pull. Without their armies, people like Gandalf and Sauron will only last as long as it would take for a dark brotherhood detatchment to descend upon them, or perhaps some loot hungry adventurers.

#27 Posted by Joygirl (19484 posts) - - Show Bio

Tamriel stomps and feeds the hobbits to the argonians.

#28 Posted by The Lone Wanderer (1448 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron joining the Nirn space program after getting smacked by a giant would be HILARIOUS to watch.

#29 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm leaning toward Tamriel. Granted, I know very little about Elder Scrolls, but I'm playing threw Skrim now. I'm only level 35, and I can already beat dragons to death with my fist. I don't remember anything like that happening in Lord of the Rings.

#30 Posted by The Lone Wanderer (1448 posts) - - Show Bio

I fought a frost giant once, never before had I had such a pretty view of tamriel from high nirn orbit.

#31 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Lone Wanderer:

Arda's armies are too weak? Guess you never heard of the War of Wrath. What about the Nazgul, I think you also never heard about the Black Shadow ... And there is no magic in Arda, there is sub-creativity. Only Eru has creativity, the Ainur, Istari, elves and dwarves have sub-creativity: the power to shape the substances that only Eru can create. If Tamriel try to invade Arda, which is ridiculous and inconceivable (whereas that magic in TES have to be more dynamic because it is a game, unlike Tolkien's works [literature, that is grately reflected in the game]), and the spells work in different in these two worlds, the armies of altimer would be useful as a gang of orcs.

#32 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde:

Maybe you do not remember this in "The Lord of the Rings", both books and movies, because most of the dragons of the the First Age, created by Morgoth, were killed or were "out of service". And it also seems that the dragons of Morgoth and his successors seem to be more powerful than those of Tamriel, which would make impossible to kill them just by fist. But that's just my opinion. In "The Hobbit", Smaug, the last fire-drake and descendant of Glaurung (or Ancalagon, now I can not remember) was killed precisely to prevent that dragons were used in the War of the Ring - though his killer don't had that in mind (but Gandalf had, since he had met with the White Council to report on the Dragon and the Necromancer of Dol Guldur)

#33 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

My Dovah solos.. but no really i'm giving this to Tamriel

#34 Posted by Kellar21 (444 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,can Arda have Ar-Pharazon armies from Numenor,they had flying ships and steampunk tech combined with Noldor magic.

Still I think Tamriel wins without divine intervention(Sithis isn't even sentient,it is just the void,that Dark Brotherhood Night Mother story is from Nocturnal.)

Tamriel has many powerful individuals and there magic is much mroe widespread and pratical.

#35 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@earendilgb: No, I don't remember that. I just remember Smaug, who was killed with an arrow.

Were there any dudes in LotR's that went around beating dragons to death with their fist? Cause that's what my character in that game does. Walks around beating dragons and giants to death with his fist. And I've still got 40 levels til max level to go.

#36 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde: Well, it was not simply an arrow, but a Black Arrow, that never misses his target that the shooter attempts. And Smaug had just a tiny little place in his belly that has not scales and was without the protection of the jewelry in that particular part. Smaug was a very powerful dragon, but not was lucky when attacked Esgaroth.

Whereas it is a game, it's easy you take a certain level and only kill creatures with punches. The dragons and giants (ents and the stone giants of the Misty Mountains) are not the kind of easy kill. Glaurung geve much work to Túrin Turambar.

#37 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@earendilgb: I don't know. The last dragon I beat to death they said was powerful enough to destroy the world. Some ancient dragon named Alduin. Everyone seemed scared of him, until I punched him to death.

To be fair, I did use a shield to block his fire. But if my guy can punch a planet cracking dragon to death, I'm sure he can do it to a misty mountain stone giant. And an ent I could probably one-shot.

#38 Edited by Frocharocha (2270 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

Nirn is the entire world/realm of TES, it's too many races. The Deadric Princes and The Aedra would win this in a few seconds. If Eru is alowed. Everyone would be dead and the Deadric Princes would battle him forever.@earendilgb said:

I do not think that Anu has made things more significant than Eru. Anu warred with Padomay and everything was created. That's what I know.

As for Eru, he created the Ainur, gave them the theme of Ainulindalë and, through its Secret Fire and his command, everything was created. And he maintains the creation through the Valar and Maiar. For exemple, when Manwë needed him most, in Akallabêth, Eru helped and remould the face of the world.

So, despite being a big fan of what Tolkien and admire much of the TES universe, I think the battle between Arda and Nirn ends in a draw.

TES creation is a monomyth. LTOR is monotheism. Even so, the Dark brotherhood suggest Sithis is very alive (Anu).

#39 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9190 posts) - - Show Bio
@Frocharocha said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

Nirn is the entire world/realm of TES, it's too many races. The Deadric Princes and The Aedra would win this in a few seconds.

Believe Nirn has the advantage here. However, the deities are fighting the other deities.in s a separate battle.not sure how powerful they are in Tolkien's works.
#40 Posted by Frocharocha (2270 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Frocharocha said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

Nirn is the entire world/realm of TES, it's too many races. The Deadric Princes and The Aedra would win this in a few seconds.

Believe Nirn has the advantage here. However, the deities are fighting the other deities.in s a separate battle.not sure how powerful they are in Tolkien's works.

In their own realms. They are Chuck Norris/God. Outside their realms, something close to Marvel Elder Gods liek they Aedra counterparts judging their ridiculous powerful reality warping powers.

#41 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2171 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Tamriel use the Dragonborn and the Dragons? Cuz if so they can beat most anybody middle earth has got.

#42 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Tamriel

Army for Army Tamriel takes this. Each race has a special ability and power so Tamriel already has an advantage, next everyone can almost use Magic.

tbh i know nothing of LotRs other than the movies. btw I've seen Hobbit, amazing.

Overall TES takes round 1 with moderate difficulty.

#43 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde: Ah, yes. But this is the reality of the game. The reality of the books are totally different and should be considered. As I said before, any of the races in Tamriel lose they powers in Arda: the magic does not exist there, what exists there is sub-creativity. And only have sub-creativity those who Eru thought in Ainulindallë (the Ainur in Arda, the Istari (because they are incarnated Ainur), elves and dwarves).

#44 Posted by Frocharocha (2270 posts) - - Show Bio

@earendilgb said:

@Moonchilde: Ah, yes. But this is the reality of the game. The reality of the books are totally different and should be considered. As I said before, any of the races in Tamriel lose they powers in Arda: the magic does not exist there, what exists there is sub-creativity. And only have sub-creativity those who Eru thought in Ainulindallë (the Ainur in Arda, the Istari (because they are incarnated Ainur), elves and dwarves).

So the best to do is to place the battle where the magic of everyone works. So they can be happy.

#45 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha: This is the problem. I do not know how there could be a battle, and the two worlds are so distinct and put them on "neutral ground" is hard to imagine because it would be difficult to balance things considering that we only knows the behavior of both sides within their own contexts.

#46 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33069 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@earendilgb: I am considering the reality of the books, and the reality of the books is that there aren't any guys that go around punching planet splitting dragons to death. In fact, there aren't even any planet splitting dragons, just town-burning and mountain stealing ones.

My planet saving, dragon killing guy that is only slightly more then half-way to his max potential walks up to Sauron, hands him the one-ring, then punches him to death.

#48 Posted by earendilgb (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Baldy said:

Middle-Earth isn't a world. The world is Arda.

Neither is Tamriel. It's merely a continent.

Nirn is the entire world/realm of TES, it's too many races. The Deadric Princes and The Aedra would win this in a few seconds. If Eru is alowed. Everyone would be dead and the Deadric Princes would battle him forever.@earendilgb said:

Whereas Arda only ends when Eru wants (Tolkien is adamant about it), he would fight forever with the Daedra, while Arda would be there, floating in the Void (and not sure if everything would be destroyed there).

#49 Posted by ToO_RaW (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

This is an awesome battle. Give me Middle Earth for the win though.

#50 Edited by Lord_Johnathan (3272 posts) - - Show Bio

Low magic fantasy like LOTR can't beat high magic fantasy like TES or Faerun without divine intervention or grossly superior numbers, ever. If we get into Divine Intervention, then the Aedra and Daedra are going to be playing planetary paddle ball with the Valar. You're going to be having Sheogorath and Akatosh taking turns batting planets around with Morgoth and Tulkas...which actually sounds ridiculously awesome. However, LOTR does seem to have that Numerical advantage; mainly from Sauron; the kingdoms of Men, Dwarves, and Elves apparently were crappy at making babies.

Although Spacebattles made a very good case for Napoleonic France being able to defeat or at least carve a massive chunk out of Tamriel or Faerun and stomp on third age mordor. To be fair, to destroy the major powers of Tamriel and Faerun, Napoleon was conceded to have required getting to know how magic works and incorporating it into his army, but overall his ridiculously larger population base would carry the day.

During the third age, Mordor could be said to have 2 million combat capable orcs, maybe about a million or so auxiliaries if you tally up the wargs, trolls, evil-men, and such who flocked to Sauron's banner. Mordor also outnumbered the other lands of middle earth by a ridiculous margin, so they probably would be a drop in the bucket of manpower. The Septim Empire at it's peak could afford to dispatch four legions across the sea into Akavir, a fairly distant continent. Assuming that Tamriel's legions=Roman legions, that's a logistical capability to sustain twenty four thousand men over a cross-continental invasion.

If I remember my TES lore right, the Septim Empire at it's peak had about 50ish legions, so 300k men plus the local guards who were all decently well equipped and trained; I'd peg the guards at around 400kish total; it is worth noting that the guards would likely lack the logistical base to really forray beyond their cities, so they'd only help in defense. So Sauron will have a big numerical advantage. 10 to 1 in fact. Orcs are hilariously crappy fighters and I'd expect any casualty rates to be heavily skewed